PDA

View Full Version : If NYT reported Cohen tapes are real and made public, what will be political impact?




enhanced_deficit
07-20-2018, 04:36 PM
At this point, NYT report contents seems to have been only indirectly confirmed by WH team (by Rudy Giuliani reportedly). But if turns out this is not fakenews and NYT reported Cohen tapes are made public, what kind of political impact there will be on midterms / 2020?
Vote in attached poll.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHntKp3Bi-M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHntKp3Bi-M



NYT: Michael Cohen Secretly Taped Trump... (https://www.dallasnews.com/news/donald-trump-1/2018/07/20/michael-cohen-secretly-taped-donald-trump-discussing-payment-playboy-model-stormy-daniels)
FLASHBACK: Recorded calls 'to use as leverage'... (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-michael-cohen-raid-recordings-seized-robert-mueller-special-counsel-russia-a8302401.html)
Interview With Al Sharpton... (https://nypost.com/2018/07/20/al-sharpton-teases-sit-down-interview-with-michael-cohen/)
MANHATTAN MADAM SUBPOENAED BY MUELLER... (http://www.tmz.com/2018/07/20/manhattan-madam-kristin-davis-subpoenaed-robert-mueller-trump/)





https://www.drudgereport.com/i/logo9.gif







Comments from another related discussion:

Russian Oligarch Who Allegedly Paid Michael Cohen Is Linked to Clinton Foundation and John Pod (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?523855-Russian-Oligarch-Who-Allegedly-Paid-Michael-Cohen-Is-Linked-to-Clinton-Foundation-and-John-Pod&)

Cohen spied on Trump (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?524455-Don-t-trust-your-soul-to-no-big-city-northern-lawyer-(Cohen-spied-on-Trump)&)


Putting 2 and 2 together (if these are not fakenews), does it mean a Russian/Dems agent was spying on MAGA just 2 months before 2016 Presidential elections?

That if true would be huge news and is not being reported in much of MSM. Although a liberal Dem Senator said this few days ago:


Schumer: Americans 'will wonder' if Putin has dirt on Trump (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?524398-Schumer-(D)-was-given-speaking-time-at-Trump-(R)-inauguration-this-is-how-he-returns-favor&)
07/16/2018
"A single, ominous question now hangs over the White House: what could possibly cause President Trump to put the interests of Russia over those of the United States? Millions of Americans will continue to wonder if the only possible explanation for this dangerous behavior is the possibility that President Putin holds damaging information over President Trump," Schumer said in the statement.

enhanced_deficit
07-20-2018, 04:58 PM
Trump has proven to be pretty resilient and has successfully weathered past scandal involving Access Hollywood tape although nature of that scandal was different.


There was some political cost at the time:

https://pmcvariety.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/donald-trump-access-hollywood-tape.jpg?w=1000&h=562&crop=1



Pence told RNC he could replace Trump on ticket after 'Access Hollywood' tape came out: report

12/05/17
http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...t-after-access (http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/363258-pence-told-rnc-he-could-replace-trump-on-ticket-after-access)




Sen. Mike Lee calls for Trump to step down

By Jordain Carney - 10/08/16

Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) became the second Senate Republican to call on Donald Trump to drop out of the presidential race, calling the GOP nominee a "distraction."

"I respectfully ask you, with all due respect, to step aside. Step down, allow someone else to carry the banner of these principles... rather than weighing down the American people," Lee said in a video posted to Facebook on Friday night.

Lee — who has refused to endorse Trump — said Republicans should instead "find a candidate that can carry that banner without distraction and without settling."

"As [Republicans] been asked to settle, we've been given a huge series of distractions," Lee said in the video, before turning his focus to directly addressing Trump: "With all due respect, sir, you are the distraction. Your conduct, sir, is the distraction."

Lee is just the latest politician from Utah to break with Trump. Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) revoked his endorsement, as did the state's governor.

The Washington Post published (http://www.thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/donald-trump-hot-mic-caught-on-tape-groping-women-sexually-aggresive-vulgar-lewd-billy-bush) audio of the businessman making explicit comments about trying to have sex with women, which were caught on a hot mic in 2005. Trump issued a half-apology, saying the comments were private "locker-room banter" and "I apologize if anyone was offended."

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/299968-sen-mike-lee-calls-for-trump-to-step-down





Related

https://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1652854/juliet-huddy.jpg?w=736
(https://www.thewrap.com/ex-fox-and-friends-host-says-trump-once-tried-to-kiss-her-on-the-lips/)
Ex-'Fox And Friends' Host Says Trump Once Tried to Kiss Her on the Lips (https://www.thewrap.com/ex-fox-and-friends-host-says-trump-once-tried-to-kiss-her-on-the-lips/)

euphemia
07-20-2018, 06:42 PM
Unbelievable. You all claim to hold total disdain for the msn and the FBI, yet you believe everything they say.

enhanced_deficit
07-20-2018, 09:28 PM
You don't have to believe everything MSM/Drudge links/Foxnews etc say to be able to evaluate impact of MSM news on public's perceptions and future voting choices. Hence the question is about "political impact".

Alex Jones/rebel media so far has not reported on it either way, though there should be some update soon.


In the meantime, this is making top headlines now.


Michael Cohen‏ Verified account @MichaelCohen212 (https://twitter.com/MichaelCohen212)

Michael Cohen Retweeted Reverend Al Sharpton
I have known Rev for almost 20 years. No one better to talk to!

Michael Cohen added,
Reverend Al SharptonVerified account @TheRevAl

Just spent an hour w/ Michael Cohen, Trump’s former attorney. I bet you’re wondering what we could be talking about! Stay tuned

6:26 AM - 20 Jul 2018 from Manhattan, NYhttps://twitter.com/MichaelCohen212/status/1020298859556294656?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcam p%5Enews%7Ctwgr%5Etweet



Incidentally, another tweet below Mr Cohen's tweet has this controversial PBS meme that seems to cross the line of objective reporting.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DijujxEWAAAjWd7.jpg

Anti Globalist
07-20-2018, 09:33 PM
Very little impact.

TheCount
07-20-2018, 09:33 PM
Trump supporters don't care that he lies to them about everything. Very little impact.

Aratus
07-21-2018, 12:05 AM
The tapes legitimize what has been said about him.
This could go along the same pathways the attempt
to impeach and convict Bill Clinton did. It's like doing
a morph of the Watergate Tapes with Whitewatergate.

timosman
07-21-2018, 12:06 AM
The tapes legitimize what has been said about him.
This could go along the same pathways the attempt
to impeach and convict Bill Clinton did. It's like doing
a morph of the Watergate Tapes with Whitewatergate.

Put down the crack pipe.

Aratus
07-21-2018, 12:09 AM
Seriously, Trump has 15 big scandals busting loose at the same time,
in addition to the tapes Cohen has, that validate the accusations said.

Aratus
07-21-2018, 12:12 AM
He was also being hit with rape accusations, in addition to arranging payoffs
and sexual harassment. Bill Clinton never went to jail, but he ran up 16 million
in legal fees. Trump may have been MORE of a sleaze or worse than is Bill Clinton.
We can debate whose business dealings are more corrupt, or who has the worst
character flaws. Warren G. Harding only had a mistress. Poker player buddies.

timosman
07-21-2018, 12:18 AM
He was also being hit with rape accusations, in addition to arranging payoffs
and sexual harassment. Bill Clinton never went to jail, but he ran up 16 million
in legal fees. Trump may have been MORE of a sleaze or worse than is Bill Clinton.
We can debate whose business dealings are more corrupt, or who has the worst
character flaws. Warren G. Harding only had a mistress. Poker player buddies.

You should tell us what you are on. I tried couple of things and none worked. Your posts still didn't make any sense. :cool:

Aratus
07-21-2018, 12:39 AM
With Trump, given that he and his wives socialized with the Clintons, we have a curious overlap set.
Steve Bannon once had business dealings with Harvey Weinstein, despite their political differences.

nobody's_hero
07-21-2018, 06:00 AM
I'm guessing it depends what's in the tapes versus what the media says is in the tapes. No one has even heard the tapes yet and the media is already claiming victory.

RJB
07-21-2018, 06:09 AM
These two posts sum up my outlook. So far every smoking gun against Trump has either been an exaggeration or an outright lie. The US probably has hit scandal fatigue as it did with Bill Clinton.


I'm guessing it depends what's in the tapes versus what the media says is in the tapes. No one has even heard the tapes yet and the media is already claiming victory.


Unbelievable. You all claim to hold total disdain for the msn and the FBI, yet you believe everything they say.

Jamesiv1
07-21-2018, 06:10 AM
How does one get the media to quit talking about Russia?

Boobs.

RJB
07-21-2018, 06:17 AM
How does one get the media to quit talking about Russia?

Boobs.

That's why people focus on these scandals. Boobs are at the center of most of them.

Jamesiv1
07-21-2018, 06:25 AM
That's why people focus on these scandals. Boobs are at the center of most of them.
I personally believe that US Americans enjoy talking about boobs and the Iraq such as.

Schifference
07-21-2018, 06:27 AM
Trump is a master of controversy.

His first months of presidency has proven negative consequences do not affect his agenda.

Schifference
07-21-2018, 06:33 AM
Why should it be an issue?
The relevant question would be how it affects his marriage.
According to Stormy it was consensual.
Unlike Clinton, Clapper, and many others, he has not lied under oath.
Campaign finance issues? Which candidate that ran in last 50 years has not had campaign finance issues? Didn't Ron have issues? Clinton have issues?

RJB
07-21-2018, 06:34 AM
I personally believe that US Americans enjoy talking about boobs.
Russiagate was losing its popularity, so they trot out Maria the redhead Russian hottie who "infiltrated" the NRA.

EBounding
07-21-2018, 07:37 AM
This will be 10 times worse than the stormy daniels thing. So nothing.

angelatc
07-21-2018, 08:16 AM
And not a single person here is complaining loudly that attorney / client privilege should make these tapes a non-starter? Trump had a reasonable expectation of privacy and protection here. Nixon didn't as he was the person doing the recording.

oyarde
07-21-2018, 08:31 AM
I'm guessing it depends what's in the tapes versus what the media says is in the tapes. No one has even heard the tapes yet and the media is already claiming victory.

Which leads one to think it amounts to nothing . If his lawyer has anything it cannot be used.

oyarde
07-21-2018, 08:34 AM
I personally believe that US Americans enjoy talking about boobs and the Iraq such as.

I already voted but more boobs was not on the poll .

timosman
07-21-2018, 08:38 AM
And not a single person here is complaining loudly that attorney / client privilege should make these tapes a non-starter? Trump had a reasonable expectation of privacy and protection here.


Done already - Don't trust your soul to no big city northern lawyer (Cohen spied on Trump)
www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?524455-Don-t-trust-your-soul-to-no-big-city-northern-lawyer-(Cohen-spied-on-Trump)

angelatc
07-21-2018, 08:42 AM
Trump supporters don't care that he lies to them about everything. Very little impact.

That's true for all supporters of any candidate.

And this is a replay of the traditional scenario: nobody likes the Democrats, but they'll eventually win elections again because the electorate wants to punish the GOP. And that can't happen unless the Democrats gives the electorate something to punish the GOP for.

The Dems will then shove through some massively unAmerican, unpopular legislation, and the GOP will return in histopric numbers, onlu to not undo a single thing the Dems accomplished.

enhanced_deficit
07-21-2018, 12:10 PM
Very little impact.


Trump supporters don't care that he lies to them about everything. Very little impact.

If this is not fakenews, depending on contents it could have impact on independent voters and force some of GOP voters on the margins to reevaluate their political positions/further energize Dems attacks.


The tapes legitimize what has been said about him.
This could go along the same pathways the attempt
to impeach and convict Bill Clinton did. It's like doing
a morph of the Watergate Tapes with Whitewatergate.


This will be 10 times worse than the stormy daniels thing. So nothing.

Public is moved quickly by tangible things like blue dresses, audio/video media tapes etc as opposed to just verbal claims.

RJB
07-21-2018, 12:17 PM
And not a single person here is complaining loudly that attorney / client privilege should make these tapes a non-starter? Trump had a reasonable expectation of privacy... In the past, you would have a point. These days, the truth, ethics, and laws matter little. It's what side of the aisle that people have their perspective and focus.

Zippyjuan
07-21-2018, 12:22 PM
Trump does not deny what is said to have occurred but is attacking the possible legality of the tapes.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44911915


Trump attacks Michael Cohen over 'Playboy model payment tape'

President Donald Trump has condemned his former lawyer Michael Cohen amid US media reports that he secretly recorded Mr Trump discussing payments to former Playboy model Karen McDougal.

The tapes were reportedly discovered during an FBI raid on Mr Cohen's property earlier this year in New York.

Mr Trump tweeted that such a raid was "almost unheard of".

He added that a lawyer secretly recording a client was "totally unheard of and perhaps illegal".

Who is Michael Cohen?
Ex-model apologises for 'Trump affair'
The president also insisted he had done nothing wrong.

Mr Cohen's lawyer responded by saying that Mr Trump's statement was "false".

What is the tape said to reveal?
The New York Times reports that in the recording, Mr Trump and Mr Cohen discuss paying Ms McDougal, who says she had a 10-month affair with Mr Trump in 2006, a year after he married his current wife Melania.

The tape was reportedly made two months before the November 2016 election that saw Mr Trump become president.

In the lead-up to the vote, Ms McDougal sold her story to the National Enquirer magazine, which is owned by a personal friend of Mr Trump.

She says a $150,000 (£115,000) agreement gave the tabloid exclusive story rights and banned her from talking publicly about the alleged affair. But the Enquirer did not publish her story after paying for the rights.

Why is this an issue?

The Department of Justice is looking into alleged hush money paid to women who claim they had a relationship with Mr Trump.

It is suggested that such payments, if proved, would amount to an election expense.

Failing to declare election expenses is a crime.

Federal investigators have reportedly demanded the tabloid's records on the McDougal payment.

In May, President Trump admitted that he had reimbursed Mr Cohen for a payment he made to another woman to hush up her claims of an affair.

Mr Trump had previously denied all knowledge of the $130,000 payment to porn actress Stormy Daniels as part of a non-disclosure agreement.

What does Cohen say about the tape?
Mr Cohen, who has not been charged with any crime, is reportedly under investigation for possible bank and tax fraud, as well as potential violation of election law.

He has declined to comment publicly on the tape story.

But his lawyer, Lanny Davis, said in a brief statement on Friday that he was "sensitive" to the ongoing investigation before adding: "Suffice it to say that when the recording is heard, it will not hurt Mr Cohen.

"Any attempt at spin cannot change what is on the tape."


Is secret recording allowed?

New York state law allows one party to a conversation to tape it without the other knowing.

The New York Times reports that Mr Cohen, while working on behalf of Mr Trump, frequently taped conversations with journalists, other lawyers and business opponents of his client.

It goes on to say that Mr Trump himself also has a history of recording phone calls and conversations.

The ethics of whether lawyers should make such recordings, their legality notwithstanding, is an issue dividing the US legal profession.

More at link.

1020642287725043712

"Broke into"- actually "let in" because they had a search warrant.

Lawyer taping client IS legal and does happen. Trump also tapes conversations.

"Your favorite president did nothing wrong!" Which president is he referring to? (yes, Trump is Trump's favorite president!)

timosman
07-21-2018, 12:31 PM
It's time to switch away from the Russia narrative. Look at this shiny new object over there! :cool:

enhanced_deficit
07-21-2018, 12:31 PM
I'm guessing it depends what's in the tapes versus what the media says is in the tapes. No one has even heard the tapes yet and the media is already claiming victory.

Agreed.
Media has a tendency to get ahead of itself again and again but in this case at least one of the tape has been heard by some folks or aware of contents. Their is also tease about Cohen having more tapes.


These two posts sum up my outlook. So far every smoking gun against Trump has either been an exaggeration or an outright lie. The US probably has hit scandal fatigue as it did with Bill Clinton.

Hence his nickname 'Teflon Trump'. Trump had positioned himself to be the largest and most effective savior of GOP base's core interests and as a result he could 'shoot someone in Time square' and get away with it. That equation is slightly changing in MidWest with tariffs impact on farmers, so things could change near midterms.

Depending on the contents of tapes, there could be erosion of some of his GOP support on margins/Independents etc.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNlt62JwmBg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNlt62JwmBg

enhanced_deficit
07-21-2018, 12:41 PM
How does one get the media to quit talking about Russia?

Boobs.


Trump is a master of controversy.

His first months of presidency has proven negative consequences do not affect his agenda.


In some of the commentaries online, conspiracy theories also appear to be emerging that this story's timing is designed to distract attention from so called Russiagate/Putingate. Although it had been known for a while that Cohen could be prosecuted, there is no MSM report suggesting that these tapes were planted with aim to clear MAGA. Some even had suggsted that Rudy was deep stage but most of this is in the realm of speculation.


And not a single person here is complaining loudly that attorney / client privilege should make these tapes a non-starter? Trump had a reasonable expectation of privacy and protection here. Nixon didn't as he was the person doing the recording.

Many in GOP base appeared willing to overlook even Russian hacking of Hillary's servers if that exposed the truth.
Your argument will apply in case of a legal defense but in terms of political impact, I'm afarid it would not resonate with large part of public depending on contents of tapes.

Zippyjuan
07-21-2018, 12:46 PM
Trump's lawyers had already waved "privilege" on the tapes.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/21/politics/donald-trump-michael-cohen-taping/index.html


Despite the President's comment Saturday, he has waived privilege on the recording, said two sources briefed on legal discussions surrounding the materials seized in April. The recording had been deemed privileged by a former federal judge, known as a special master, one of the sources said, adding that Trump's lawyers asked the special master to withdraw the privilege. This gives the government access to the recording as part of the US attorney for the Southern District of New York investigation into Cohen.

timosman
07-21-2018, 12:49 PM
Trump's lawyers had already waved "privilege" on the tapes.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/21/politics/donald-trump-michael-cohen-taping/index.html

This means the "leak" is intentional.

RJB
07-21-2018, 12:58 PM
Hence his nickname 'Teflon Trump'. Trump had positioned himself to be the largest and most effective savior of GOP base's core interests and as a result he could 'shoot someone in Time square' and get away with it. That equation is slightly changing in MidWest with tariffs impact on farmers, so things could change near midterms.

Depending on the contents of tapes, there could be erosion of some of his GOP support on margins/Independents etc.
rl]They need not call him Teflon because so far they really have nothing damning on him (in a legal sense). Just about every night the MSM claims they have something and it turns out to be a nothing burger. The worse they had was the Access Hollywood tape. It was funny seeing some Democratic friends throwing a fit when I heard these friends of mine use as bad or worse language. What else do you think Bill C and Donald T talked about on their golf outings?

As an aside, I will never again take a dyed in the wool Dem or Repub seriously when they claim to be horrified about adultery.

timosman
07-21-2018, 01:09 PM
TAs an aside, I will never again take a dyed in the wool Dem or Repub seriously when they claim to be horrified about adultery.

Humans like to fuck. It's fun. :cool:

nobody's_hero
07-21-2018, 01:15 PM
And not a single person here is complaining loudly that attorney / client privilege should make these tapes a non-starter? Trump had a reasonable expectation of privacy and protection here. Nixon didn't as he was the person doing the recording.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?524455-Don-t-trust-your-soul-to-no-big-city-northern-lawyer-(Cohen-spied-on-Trump)

nobody's_hero
07-21-2018, 01:19 PM
Lawyer taping client IS legal and does happen.

LOL. Pretty sure it doesn't happen with the client being unaware.

RJB
07-21-2018, 01:22 PM
Humans like to fuck. It's fun. :cool:

Indeed it is.

Zippyjuan
07-21-2018, 01:23 PM
They need not call him Teflon because so far they really have nothing damning on him (in a legal sense). Just about every night the MSM claims they have something and it turns out to be a nothing burger. The worse they had was the Access Hollywood tape. It was funny seeing some Democratic friends throwing a fit when I heard these friends of mine use as bad or worse language. What else do you think Bill C and Donald T talked about on their golf outings?

As an aside, I will never again take a dyed in the wool Dem or Repub seriously when they claim to be horrified about adultery.

Reagan was originally called the "teflon President" because of all the people who worked for him who were indicted for various things while he was untouched.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2005/10/17/157477/-


"By the end of his term, 138 Reagan administration officials had been convicted, had been indicted, or had been the subject of official investigations for official misconduct and/or criminal violations. In terms of number of officials involved, the record of his administration was the worst ever."

Nixon had eight, Clinton one. Partial list of Reagan officials at link.

RJB
07-21-2018, 01:29 PM
Reagan was originally called the "teflon President" because of all the people who worked for him who were indicted for various things while he was untouched.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2005/10/17/157477/-



Nixon had eight, Clinton one. Partial list of Reagan officials at link.

Again, I have seen no smoking gun against Trump, just conspiracy theories. CNN is the new Alex Jones.

Also, the original Teflon Don was John Gotti.

Zippyjuan
07-21-2018, 01:47 PM
Again, I have seen no smoking gun against Trump, just conspiracy theories. CNN is the new Alex Jones.

Also, the original Teflon Don was John Gotti.

Actually Reagan bet him on the moniker. Reagan was dubbed Teflon by Patricia Schroeder (D-Colorado) in 1983. Gotti didn't become a Don until the 1985 murder of Paul Castellano.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/teflon-don-sentenced-to-life

https://politicaldictionary.com/words/teflon-coated-presidency/
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/teflon-don-sentenced-to-life

spudea
07-21-2018, 02:05 PM
Deranged leftists try to prove Trump had sex with playboy super models? How does this hurt Trump? Every man wants to be him and every woman wants his money. It will only increase his support.

Zippyjuan
07-21-2018, 02:10 PM
Clinton has sex outside marriage- right freaks out- proclaiming immorality and demands impeachment (gets him for lying about it). Trump has sex outside marriage- right is "so what?". (noting that Republicans controlled Congress at both times- partisanship was surely a factor)

What they are looking into is was election money used to pay of any of the women- that would be illegal. If it came from his personal funds- no problem.


Every man wants to be him

Not every man. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/16/ron-paul-calls-donald-trump-a-dangerous-authoritar/

spudea
07-21-2018, 02:56 PM
Clinton has sex outside marriage- right freaks out

So you are suggesting "the right" as you refer to it, has become more accepting and doesn't care about personal consensual lives? Shows the successes of Libertarianism. Why don't you highlight these successes instead of always portraying it with a negative connotation.

Zippyjuan
07-21-2018, 02:59 PM
So you are suggesting "the right" as you refer to it, has become more accepting and doesn't care about personal consensual lives? Shows the successes of Libertarianism. Why don't you highlight these successes instead of always portraying it with a negative connotation.

Trump is not libertarian. (see link in previous post)

spudea
07-21-2018, 03:03 PM
Not every man. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/16/ron-paul-calls-donald-trump-a-dangerous-authoritar/

Yes Ron Paul wants to be Trump because Ron Paul wanted to be president, Trump did what Ron and Rand couldn't do and Rand is a big supporter.

Zippyjuan
07-21-2018, 03:11 PM
Yes Ron Paul wants to be Trump because Ron Paul wanted to be president, Trump did what Ron and Rand couldn't do and Rand is a big supporter.

That is about the ONLY way Ron Paul would like to be like Trump.

angelatc
07-21-2018, 04:08 PM
Lawyer taping client IS legal and does happen.

Nobody is saying it isn't legal, you irritating little troll who would be banned if Bryan actually wanted the forums to be an activist platform. What we are saying is that it's not admissible against Trump, because Trump had a reasonable expectation of privacy.

angelatc
07-21-2018, 04:11 PM
Trump's lawyers had already waved "privilege" on the tapes.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/21/politics/donald-trump-michael-cohen-taping/index.html

waived*.

And unless you have the names of those sources, you're spewing garbage.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
07-21-2018, 04:22 PM
"By the end of his term, 138 Reagan administration officials had been convicted, had been indicted, or had been the subject of official investigations for official misconduct and/or criminal violations. In terms of number of officials involved, the record of his administration was the worst ever."




Your source lists 21 people, not 138.

And why are there quotes around those words? Who in the world are they quoting? They don't even give a source.

Furthermore, your 138 lumps together convictions with investigations? Being investigated is the same as being convicted?

timosman
07-21-2018, 04:23 PM
Nobody is saying it isn't legal, you irritating little troll who would be banned if Bryan actually wanted the forums to be an activist platform.

Sad really. I am getting tired of this complete lack of transparency. The details of the recent session with Rand are not available either. :seenoevil::hearnoevil::speaknoevil:


No video. Officially, this never happened. :tears:

Swordsmyth
07-21-2018, 05:30 PM
Clinton has sex outside marriage- right freaks out- proclaiming immorality and demands impeachment (gets him for lying about it). Trump has sex outside marriage- right is "so what?".

What they are looking into is was election money used to pay of any of the women- that would be illegal. If it came from his personal funds- no problem.



Not every man. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/16/ron-paul-calls-donald-trump-a-dangerous-authoritar/

Just forget about the rape and the treason with China.

enhanced_deficit
07-21-2018, 06:12 PM
How does this hurt Trump? Every man wants to be him and every woman wants his money. It will only increase his support.

Considering that he's currently leader of the Family Values (God, Family, Country) party and is not running under a liberal flag, "every man" theory might be bit of stretch even if there maybe some truth to your assertion. This was just one recent example:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNlt62JwmBg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNlt62JwmBg

Aratus
07-21-2018, 06:31 PM
And not a single person here is complaining loudly that attorney / client privilege should make these tapes a non-starter? Trump had a reasonable expectation of privacy and protection here. Nixon didn't as he was the person doing the recording.

Yes, Nixon's taping system was in the Oval Office! Excellent point!

Aratus
07-21-2018, 06:37 PM
That is about the ONLY way Ron Paul would like to be like Trump.

Zippy, I trust you have noticed that Ron & Rand are backing POTUS up even MORE despite the increasing
number of critics his actions have recently PO'ed, and that this display of true grit by them suggests that
several issue stances do overlap. Trump's version of a public debt contradicts Doctor Ron Paul's legendary
frugality, but his lil hints at a looksie at the ole FED suggests an audit of the same might be in the works.

spudea
07-21-2018, 06:50 PM
Considering that he's currently leader of the Family Values (God, Family, Country) party and is not running under a liberal flag, "every man" theory might be bit of stretch even if there maybe some truth to your assertion. This was just one recent example:


That angle is already decided, especially in contrast to any opponent he may face. He is seen as a stalwart defender of those values, his voters understood during the election he wasn't a perfect person in their eyes. And that Mike Lee video isn't recent its almost 2 years old.

enhanced_deficit
07-21-2018, 07:11 PM
That angle is already decided, especially in contrast to any opponent he may face. He is seen as a stalwart defender of those values, his voters understood during the election he wasn't a perfect person in their eyes. And that Mike Lee video isn't recent its almost 2 years old.

I understand that argument, and possible that family values views like religious conservative Mile Lee's may have evolved in last 2 years. By the same token, views of some of those who were willing to hold their noses and support an imperfect candidate towards the end of 8 years of Obama can eveolve too in 2018/2020 depending on new landscape and new perceptions about an already 'imperfect' leader. I was disagreeing with blanket 'every man' assertion and still do.

Aratus
07-21-2018, 07:23 PM
Clinton has sex outside marriage- right freaks out- proclaiming immorality and demands impeachment (gets him for lying about it). Trump has sex outside marriage- right is "so what?".

What they are looking into is was election money used to pay of any of the women- that would be illegal. If it came from his personal funds- no problem.



Not every man. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/16/ron-paul-calls-donald-trump-a-dangerous-authoritar/

Libertarians and Bible Belt Protestants liked most of Senator Barry Goldwater's ideas, but there are times
when they can sharply disagree on things at the local level that would impact things like zoning etc. so I
try not to lump everyone and everything together. Donny Trump & Bill Clinton have very similar sex scandals,
yes. At one point, on Manhattan Island DJT looked and sounded like a Centrist who humoured the New Left
as he built big buildings & put his name on them. The new sex tapes hit moderate/centrists square & hard.

Aratus
07-21-2018, 07:36 PM
In his feud with Gov.Mitt Romney, Donald Trump verbally stomped all over him.
Any new disclosures from the FBI raid on Mister Cohen could cause the Mittsters
to rethink how they GOP vote. If THEY turn on DJT and align with the traditional
LEFT, Trump has one big problem looming. Gentleman Mitt is the last practitioner
of 1950s era Eisenhower Republicanism. We'd hate to think IKE horridly cheated
on Mamie, we all are more inclined to think FDR wronged poor Eleanor more often
and badly. The younger generation of Republicans has looser morals almost. Maybe.
The New Left in the 1970s never trusted DJT, they only tolerated his antics. His PR.
It's a specific core of support inside the GOP that the tapes are game changers to!
Nearly all the Democrats have made up their minds about him. This is why a 50/50
split exists in the way we all voted in the poll. Some 80% of the public will not shift
or change, but swing states that are battleground have 20% of their voters flipping
elections red or blue. Or to elsewhere, when being a confused political "purple" often.

timosman
07-21-2018, 07:45 PM
In his feud with Gov.Mitt Romney, Donald Trump verbally stomped all over him.
Any new disclosures from the FBI raid on Mister Cohen could cause the Mittsters
to rethink how they GOP vote. If THEY turn on DJT and align with the traditional
LEFT, Trump has one big problem looming. Gentleman Mitt is the last practitioner
of 1950s era Eisenhower Republicanism. We'd hate to think IKE horridly cheated
on Mamie, we all are more inclined to think FDR wronged poor Eleanor more often
and badly. The younger generation of Republicans has looser morals almost. Maybe.
The New Left in the 1970s never trusted DJT, they only tolerated his antics. His PR.
It's a specific core of support inside the GOP that the tapes are game changers to!
Nearly all the Democrats have made up their minds about him. This is why a 50/50
split exists in the way we all voted in the poll. Some 80% of the public will not shift
or change, but swing states that are battleground have 20% of their voters flipping
elections red or blue. Or to elsewhere, when being a confused political "purple" often.

This is where preference falsification starts working in our favor. The Dems have been using it for a while.

Just move the sheep. Gently. :cool:

angelatc
07-21-2018, 10:07 PM
What they are looking into is was election money used to pay of any of the women- that would be illegal. If it came from his personal funds- no problem.





Thus proving that Zippy doesn't understand campaign finance law.

Any money spent to influence an election has to be reported as a campaign expenditure even if the candidate paid it personally.

If they paid it for any other reason, such as simply to avoid embarrassing Mrs. Trump and all the little Trumpettes, then that's no problem.

This is a fishing expedition, nothing to be proud of.

Zippyjuan
07-22-2018, 12:29 PM
Thus proving that Zippy doesn't understand campaign finance law.

Any money spent to influence an election has to be reported as a campaign expenditure even if the candidate paid it personally.

If they paid it for any other reason, such as simply to avoid embarrassing Mrs. Trump and all the little Trumpettes, then that's no problem.

This is a fishing expedition, nothing to be proud of.

Half right. Try this. https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/making-disbursements/personal-use/


Personal use

Using campaign funds for personal use is prohibited.

Commission regulations provide a test, called the “irrespective test,” to differentiate legitimate campaign and officeholder expenses from personal expenses. Under the “irrespective test,” personal use is any use of funds in a campaign account of a candidate (or former candidate) to fulfill a commitment, obligation or expense of any person that would exist irrespective of the candidate’s campaign or responsibilities as a federal officeholder.

More simply, if the expense would exist even in the absence of the candidacy or even if the officeholder were not in office, then the personal use ban applies.

Conversely, any expense that results from campaign or officeholder activity falls outside the personal use ban.



Relating to other activity

In specific situations the Commission has concluded that campaign funds may be used to pay for up to 50% of legal expenses that do not relate directly to allegations arising from campaign or officeholder activity (for example, activity prior to becoming a candidate or officeholder or activity of a business owned by the candidate/officeholder) if the candidate or officeholder is required to provide substantive responses to the press regarding the allegations of wrongdoing.


Exceptions

No contribution will result, however, if the payment would have been made irrespective of the candidacy.

FvS
07-22-2018, 12:43 PM
Clinton has sex outside marriage- right freaks out- proclaiming immorality and demands impeachment (gets him for lying about it). Trump has sex outside marriage- right is "so what?". (noting that Republicans controlled Congress at both times- partisanship was surely a factor)

What they are looking into is was election money used to pay of any of the women- that would be illegal. If it came from his personal funds- no problem.

Is there a difference between having an affair in the White House while you are president and having an affair before you were even elected? If Clinton had not lied about it under oath, would he have still been impeached? Is there any real evidence that Trump's infidelity took place (not that it would surprise me)? Paying someone to shut up and go away doesn't necessarily mean you did it.

enhanced_deficit
07-22-2018, 09:50 PM
In other news:


Alan Dershowitz vs. Michael Avenatti: Did Trump Himself Leak News Of Cohen Tape?

Tim Hains
July 22, 2018

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I can flip that around. CNBC is reporting actually that it came from the Trump camp. But let me bring that to you, Dan Abrams. I could imagine the Trump camp would want it out, thinking bad news, get it out early.

DAN ABRAMS, CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS ANCHOR, ABC NEWS: Yes, and address it and Giuliani can say it’s exculpatory. But the only way that this is exculpatory is if literally President Trump is on that tape saying $150,000? Why would we want to pay her $150,000? I didn’t have a relationship with her.

...
STEPHANOPOULOS: I want to follow up on this just a little bit, you know there are tapes, do you know what's on the tapes?

AVENATTI: I know the substance of some of the tapes, yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And what you have also mentioned, saying that your relationship with Michael Cohen is evolving, what did you mean by that?

AVENATTI: Well, exactly what I said. I mean, I think that I ran into Michael Cohen at a restaurant in New York City on Monday. We had a conversation, I thought it was very fruitful. And we've continued to have a dialogue. And I think that ultimately, George, Michael Cohen is going to assist us in our search for the truth and disclosure of what happened here.

I think you have seen an evolution by Michael Cohen over the last month or so with the retention of Lanny Davis and others, I think he is ready to tell the truth. And ultimately I think he is going to cooperate with us as it relates for our search for the truth.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/07/22/alan_dershowitz_vs_michael_avenatti_did_trump_hims elf_leak_news_of_cohen_tape.html





They need not call him Teflon because so far they really have nothing damning on him (in a legal sense). Just about every night the MSM claims they have something and it turns out to be a nothing burger. The worse they had was the Access Hollywood tape. It was funny seeing some Democratic friends throwing a fit when I heard these friends of mine use as bad or worse language. What else do you think Bill C and Donald T talked about on their golf outings?



Hard to disagree with these points, there seems to be a pattern of over-reactions and then reversals over so many Trump MSM news. Perhaps a sign of things to come, US markets dropped 700 points on first news of Trump winning election and then a mega reversal started with new highs.

angelatc
07-22-2018, 10:09 PM
Half right. Try this. https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/making-disbursements/personal-use/

I do campaign finance reporting. I am not half right. I am 100% right, because there's as far as I've seen, there's absolutely no allegation that the campaign money was used to pay her. The issue is that the money paid to her (through the National Enquirer, IIRC) should be considered a campaign related expenditure.

What you stated was, and is wrong. They are not looking to see if campaign money was used to pay her. They are looking to see if the expenditure should have been reported as an in-kind campaign expenditure.

Aratus
07-22-2018, 10:12 PM
....................think this thru..................

RJB
07-23-2018, 05:46 AM
Hard to disagree with these points, there seems to be a pattern of over-reactions and then reversals over so many Trump MSM news. Perhaps a sign of things to come, US markets dropped 700 points on first news of Trump winning election and then a mega reversal started with new highs. BTW Enhanced,. I like these discussions. We are speculating. I may turn out wrong. You may turn out wrong, and we're fine with it. Where threads tend to go off the rails is when two people fight to have their speculation seen as ultimate truth.

Firestarter
07-25-2018, 03:12 AM
Yesterday, CNN aired the “secret tape” made in September 2016 of Donald Trump discussing with his attorney Michael Cohen about buying Karen McDougal's story. Trump's campaign had claimed it knew nothing about any payment to McDougal.
McDougal is a former Playboy model who allegedly had an affair with Trump in 2006, 2007 while Trump was married to Melania.
Cohen tells Trump he plans to set up a company to purchase the rights of the story from American Media who bought it from McDougal for $150,000.

Trump appears to tell Cohen “pay with cash” but notorious liar Rudy Giuliani insists he said “don't pay with cash” and “suggesting otherwise is ridiculous“. Giuliani also claims that the rest of the recording, if it hadn't cut off, would have been ”exculpatory”.
U.S. Rep. Adam Schiff said the tape proves that Trump and Cohen tried to kill the story in the run up to the election so it was ”campaign motivated”.

See some excerpts:
TRUMP: [In background] Good. Let me know what's happening, okay? Oh, oh. Maybe because of this it would be better if you didn't go, you know? Maybe because of this. For that one, you know, I think what you should do is get rid of this. Because it's so false what they're saying, it's such bulls**t.
(…)
COHEN: And, I've spoken to Allen Weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with …
TRUMP: So, what do we got to pay for this? One-fifty?
(…)
TRUMP: Wait a sec, what financing?
COHEN: Well, I'll have to pay him something.
TRUMP: [UNINTELLIGIBLE] pay with cash.
COHEN: No, no, no, no, no. I got it.
TRUMP: Check. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5988939/Secret-Trump-Cohen-tape-revealed.html

See a picture with McDougal on the far right, Donald in the centre with a smirk on his face with Melania on his left and Ivanka to his right.
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/newpix/2018/07/20/17/4E70A62300000578-5975297-image-a-28_1532102531221.jpg

enhanced_deficit
12-13-2018, 11:04 AM
Yesterday, CNN aired the “secret tape” made in September 2016 of Donald Trump discussing with his attorney Michael Cohen about buying Karen McDougal's story. Trump's campaign had claimed it knew nothing about any payment to McDougal.
McDougal is a former Playboy model who allegedly had an affair with Trump in 2006, 2007 while Trump was married to Melania.
Cohen tells Trump he plans to set up a company to purchase the rights of the story from American Media who bought it from McDougal for $150,000.

Trump appears to tell Cohen “pay with cash” but notorious liar Rudy Giuliani insists he said “don't pay with cash” and “suggesting otherwise is ridiculous“. Giuliani also claims that the rest of the recording, if it hadn't cut off, would have been ”exculpatory”.
U.S. Rep. Adam Schiff said the tape proves that Trump and Cohen tried to kill the story in the run up to the election so it was ”campaign motivated”.

See some excerpts: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5988939/Secret-Trump-Cohen-tape-revealed.html




Rudy's claim was still being investigated and confirmed by media.



Related

https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/H36xmnpdXaxY8VIHmDZoFg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAw/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/e353f20fe27ce9b8fd1c6b8bc1c6fd1e
REPORTS: COHEN KOREAN CONNECTION (https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/fbi-agents-said-to-be-probing-michael-cohens-deal-with-korean-firm/2018/05/16/080cb6b4-5933-11e8-b656-a5f8c2a9295d_story.html)
SOLICITED $1M FROM QATAR (https://theintercept.com/2018/05/16/michael-cohen-qatari-investor-ahmed-al-rumaihi-michael-cohen-solicited-a-million-dollars-from-me/)


http://www.drudgereport.com/i/logo9.gif

Tom Arnold says he's teaming up with Michael Cohen and 'taking Trump down' (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?523514-Tom-Arnold-says-he-s-teaming-up-with-Michael-Cohen-and-taking-Trump-down&)


https://img.suggest.com/filter:scale/slides/2/1/6/4/8/5/2164859579/34d6b5b626ace82b2c36245dae0f13af0c89d22e.jpeg?mw=6 15

Firestarter
12-13-2018, 11:42 AM
Rudy's claim was still being investigated and confirmed by media. I guess you'll immediately say that there is no "evidence"...

But I think that maybe Cohen was sent to prison for 3 years for taping and leaking the conversation with Trump: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?529209-Michael-Cohen-sentenced-to-three-years-in-prison

enhanced_deficit
12-13-2018, 12:16 PM
Well all are details out so are based mostly on media reports, so suffice it to say that let's wait till all the facts have come out and confirmed by relaiable sources.