Let us thank ICE Officers for helping to rid our cities of criminal illegal entrants

[johnwk]

I thought it fit and proper, to counter our socialist Fifth Column open border crowd’s weekend attack on ICE to give a number of examples of the good work our ICE Officers are doing.

As President Trump has correctly pointed out, without ICE, many of our cities and towns would be overrun by criminal illegal entrants, and we would suffer the consequences of their criminal activities.

Let us review some of the recent good work performed by our fearless and dedicated ICE officers:

ICE arrests 162 undocumented immigrants in Southern California operation (http://www.keyt.com/news/crime/ice-arrests-162-undocumented-immigrants-in-southern-california-operation/753615423)

Jun 15, 2018

”Almost 90-percent of the undocumented immigrants arrested had criminal convictions. Some of the previous convictions included voluntary manslaughter, sexual assault against a child, assault against a peace officer, weapons violations, domestic abuse, DUI, and drug possession, ICE said.”


ICE Arrests Over 250 Immigrants In Florida Sweep (http://www.brevardtimes.com/2018/03/ice-arrests-over-250-immigrants-in-florida-sweep/)

March 30th, 2018

”Of those arrested by ICE during the enforcement action, 99 had criminal records that included felony convictions for serious or violent offenses, such as 1st degree murder, attempted murder, vehicular manslaughter, rape, aggravated assault, attempted robbery, battery, burglary, child neglect, cruelty toward a child, domestic violence, drugs charges such as possession and trafficking, weapons offenses, abuse of the elderly.”

”Additional convictions included driving under the influence, fraud, harboring aliens, illegal entry and re-entry to the United States, resisting an officer, traffic offenses, trespassing and workman’s compensation fraud.”


ICE arrests 82 people during 5-day operation in Virginia and DC (http://wjla.com/news/local/ice-arrests-82-people-during-5-day-operation-in-virginia-and-dc)

April 5th 2017

”Of the 82 people arrested, ICE said 68 had previous criminal convictions for crimes like armed robbery, larceny and drug distribution. They said of the remaining 14, two of them had ties to the MS-13 gang, two had outstanding final orders for removal, three had overstayed their visas, one was wanted by a foreign law enforcement entity, one was a verified human rights violator, and two had pending local charges.”


ICE Agents Arrest 107 In Philly In National Immigration Sweep (https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/09/29/philly-immigration-arrests/)

September 29, 2017

”A spokesman says 35 of the 107 people arrested had criminal convictions, 18 have pending criminal charges, 15 had been previously deported and re-entered illegally and six were fugitives with final removal orders from a judge.”




ICE Arrests Dozens On Long Island In Latest Sweep (https://patch.com/new-york/massapequa/ice-arrests-dozens-long-island-latest-sweep)

Apr 18, 2018

”ICE officers made the arrests across New York City, Long Island and the Hudson Valley over a six-day period that started on Monday, April 9. According to ICE, 16 people in Nassau and 21 people in Suffolk were arrested. All of the 225 people arrested were violating immigration laws, ICE says, and of them, more than 180 were convicted criminals or have charges pending against them. ICE said that 80 of them had been told to leave the country and didn't, or had been previously deported and returned illegally.”


ICE makes 60 arrests in New Jersey during five-day span (https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/new-jersey/2018/04/23/ice-60-arrests-new-jersey-during-five-day-span/544701002/)

April 24, 2018

”U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement arrested 60 people in New Jersey during a five-day span, authorities announced on Monday.

The operation that ended Friday focused on people convicted of crimes such as sexual assault, child abuse, domestic violence and DUI, ICE stated. Convicted criminals made up 80 percent of those arrested.”


JWK


[i]
There is no better way to weaken, destroy and subjugate a prosperous and freedom loving country than by importing the world’s poverty stricken populations into that country and making the country’s existing citizens tax-slaves to support the economic needs of such an invasion.

[oyarde]

Seems like you already lost if these cities are full of illegal violent criminals and they are hunted there . As a hunter I find it easier to go to the source . When I hunt ducks I go to the creek.

[johnwk]

Seems like you already lost if these cities are full of illegal violent criminals and they are hunted there . As a hunter I find it easier to go to the source . When I hunt ducks I go the the creek.


They are cleaning up the mess Obama left!


JWK




American citizens are sick and tired of being made into tax-slaves to finance the economic needs of millions of poverty stricken, poorly educated, low and unskilled aliens who have invaded America’s borders.

[johnwk]

Let us remember yesterday’s nationwide protest to close down ICE was funded by Socialist friendly, open border groups who are working to destroy and then subjugate America from within. Some of the backers of the Saturday protest were Move/On.org American Civil Liberties Union, The Leadership Conference on Civil Rights, and the National Domestic Workers Alliance, the director of which, Ai-jen Poo, has, for over a year, been calling for Obama to become “Organizer-in-Chief”. It appears the "Organizer-in-Chief" has been working secretly in the background and using the tactics which helped to get him elected.

These “organizers” are very clever at creating an emotional outrage by exploiting children, using them as a weapon, just like the Viet Cong used children to deliver bombs to our troops which then blew both of them up.

And let us not forget these “organizers” have a Fifth Column media and Yellow Journalists in their corner. And they also have Hollywood’s Limousine Socialists like John Legend, trying to convince yesterday's protestors how sympathetic he is towards the millions of illegal entrant children and their plight.

If John Legend and his wife were really as concerned about the “children’s” plight as they say, then why hasn’t he and his squeeze taken a few hundred of these children into their $14 million plus mansion (https://variety.com/gallery/john-legend-and-chrissy-teigen-pick-up-rihannas-old-house-in-beverly-hills/#!1/legendteigen_bh21) in Beverly Hills? Instead, he attacks ICE for making our inner cities safe, who fearlessly confront some of the most dangerous illegal entrant criminals, many who are MS-13 gang members. Does John Legend not care about the safety and well-being of American citizens living in our nation’s inner cities?

JWK


American citizens are sick and tired of being made into tax-slaves to finance the economic needs of millions of poverty stricken, poorly educated, low and unskilled aliens who have invaded America’s borders.

[Swordsmyth]

Thank You ICE!

[euphemia]

They are cleaning up the mess Obama left!

It has been going on long before that. A lot of people came here legally on student visas, but never attended class, therefore becoming illegal after entry.

On the other hand the son of a close friend was cuffed and arrested at the airport because he overstayed his visa by one day so he could see his twin sister who was flying in after a couple of years abroad serving HIV/Aids patients in Africa. One day and he was cuffed and arrested.

Equal protection under the law, indeed. Justice is one law for all, not different standards depending on skin color, native language, or who one sleeps with.

[johnwk]

It has been going on long before that. A lot of people came here legally on student visas, but never attended class, therefore becoming illegal after entry.

On the other hand the son of a close friend was cuffed and arrested at the airport because he overstayed his visa by one day so he could see his twin sister who was flying in after a couple of years abroad serving HIV/Aids patients in Africa. One day and he was cuffed and arrested.

Equal protection under the law, indeed. Justice is one law for all, not different standards depending on skin color, native language, or who one sleeps with.



What does race have to do with protecting our borders from an ongoing invasion?


JWK



Our civil rights ought not be based upon the perverted desires of sexual deviants who now impinge upon the inalienable right of mankind being free to mutually agree in their contracts and associations.

[euphemia]

Some groups are given preferential treatment.

[tod evans]

#1 I'm not going to 'thank' any government functionary for anything, ever.

WTF is wrong with you?

Alphabet agencies are the enemy of freedom, there's not one of the cocksuckers employed by them who is worthy of simple politeness let alone 'thanks'.

Thank a tick next time one burrows into the very underside of your nut-sack, at least they're industrious and accept full responsibility for their actions.

Good God man. :mad:

[Weston White]

Some groups are given preferential treatment.

Oh do you mean like affirmative action and reparations groups?

[phill4paul]

#1 I'm not going to 'thank' any government functionary for anything, ever.

WTF is wrong with you?

Alphabet agencies are the enemy of freedom, there's not one of the cocksuckers employed by them who is worthy of simple politeness let alone 'thanks'.

Thank a tick next time one burrows into the very underside of your nut-sack, at least they're industrious and accept full responsibility for their actions.

Good God man. :mad:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tod evans again.

https://i.cbc.ca/1.1411134.1379014575!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/hi-thank-you-rtxysxf.jpg

[CCTelander]

#1 I'm not going to 'thank' any government functionary for anything, ever.

WTF is wrong with you?

Alphabet agencies are the enemy of freedom, there's not one of the cocksuckers employed by them who is worthy of simple politeness let alone 'thanks'.

Thank a tick next time one burrows into the very underside of your nut-sack, at least they're industrious and accept full responsibility for their actions.

Good God man. :mad:


This post can't be +repped enough. We seem to have a severe defficiency of simple sanity like this around here nowadays. What the hell is wrong with people on this board lately?

Thank YOU, tod evans. Thank YOU.

[CCTelander]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tod evans again.

https://i.cbc.ca/1.1411134.1379014575!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/hi-thank-you-rtxysxf.jpg


Covered.

[timosman]

It has been going on long before that. A lot of people came here legally on student visas, but never attended class, therefore becoming illegal after entry.

The problem with student visas is students don't have to pay the out of state tuition until they arrive and classes start. The proof of payment for the sufficient number of credits for the first 12 months should be part of the application.

[Ender]

#1 I'm not going to 'thank' any government functionary for anything, ever.

WTF is wrong with you?

Alphabet agencies are the enemy of freedom, there's not one of the $#@!s employed by them who is worthy of simple politeness let alone 'thanks'.

Thank a tick next time one burrows into the very underside of your nut-sack, at least they're industrious and accept full responsibility for their actions.

Good God man. :mad:

YEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!

Thank you for some sanity!

[Ender]

phill4paul: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tod evans again.

And covered.

[CaptUSA]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tod evans again

Covered.

Thank heavens we still have a few liberty lovers left here!

[Influenza]

lol brainless authoritarians. At least there is still some pushback here against you cretins

[CCTelander]

Covered.

Thank heavens we still have a few liberty lovers left here!


I think there are more than it often appears there are. They just get drown out by the very vocal and unbelievably prolific Trump cheer leaders. I swear it seems like some of those types have nothing else to do but post here about how great Trump is all day, every day.

[CaptUSA]

I think there are more than it often appears there are. They just get drown out by the very vocal and unbelievably prolific Trump cheer leaders. I swear it seems like some of those types have nothing else to do but post here about how great Trump is all day, every day.

Russian trolls??? ;)

[shakey1]

This post can't be +repped enough. We seem to have a severe defficiency of simple sanity like this around here nowadays. What the hell is wrong with people on this board lately?

Thank YOU, tod evans. Thank YOU.

... and......................... covered.

[AuH20]

ICE is a necessary evil. 185 billion per year for illegal costs. The ICE budget is under 9 billion?

[AuH20]

Imagine what our property taxes, healthcare & car insurance premiums would look like with no ICE? It's sad that it's gotten to this point that ICE is warranted and needed.

[timosman]

YEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!

Thank you for some sanity!

https://image.shutterstock.com/image-vector/vector-image-elephant-ant-weighing-260nw-214467487.jpg

[Ender]

ICE is a necessary evil. 185 billion per year for illegal costs. The ICE budget is under 9 billion?

Simple Ron Paul solution: NO ENTITLEMENTS.

Everyone wins.

[phill4paul]

Simple Ron Paul solution: NO ENTITLEMENTS.

Everyone wins.

Unfortunately, Ender, it would take more than that. We'd have to end TWoD. Both of which sound good, but I think that with the way the government is now controlled isn't going to happen. Then there is child sex trafficking. Absolutely no one, except NAMBLA, is gonna call for an end to laws regarding this issue.
So, in the meantime, I'm for calling the troops home and placing them on the borders along with electronic surveillance. Let sheriffs handle the law enforcement within the U.S. for those that get through or overstay a visit, remanding them to federal custody as applicable.

[timosman]

Simple Ron Paul solution: NO ENTITLEMENTS.

Everyone wins.

In your head. How about taking a hard look at yourself and the world around you? Your poverty vow does not give you a trump card to be used when you are short on facts or logic. I know the students must be impressed though. How about the ladies? :cool:

[Ender]

Unfortunately, Ender, it would take more than that. We'd have to end TWoD. Both of which sound good, but I think that with the way the government is now controlled isn't going to happen. Then there is child sex trafficking. Absolutely no one, except NAMBLA, is gonna call for an end to laws regarding this issue.
So, in the meantime, I'm for calling the troops home and placing them on the borders along with electronic surveillance. Let sheriffs handle the law enforcement within the U.S. for those that get through or overstay a visit, remanding them to federal custody as applicable.

I agree completely about the WoD and trafficking- and bringing the troops home.

I don't believe that illegals are a major problem- I think TPTB push it to take our eyes off the reality of what is going on. And with the state of what we are currently living in, I think it would not be long before the troops "guarding the border" would soon turn around and point their weapons at Americans.

After 911, when Bush declared the WoT but did NOT bring the troops home to guard the US, I knew it was all a ruse- and I was a kid, but it seemed more than obvious. Now the hate machine is in full force to grab the attention so most won't see that everything is pretty much a lie.

[Ender]

In your head. How about taking a hard look at yourself and the world around you? Your poverty vow does not give you a trump card to be used when you are short on facts or logic. I know the students must be impressed though. How about the ladies? :cool:

I think your mother's calling you- maybe she'll actually teach you not to be a shill.;)

[timosman]

I think your mother's calling you- maybe she'll actually teach you not to be a shill.;)

Disappointing. :cool:

[phill4paul]

I agree completely about the WoD and trafficking- and bringing the troops home.

I don't believe that illegals are a major problem- I think TPTB push it to take our eyes off the reality of what is going on. And with the state of what we are currently living in, I think it would not be long before the troops "guarding the border" would soon turn around and point their weapons at Americans.

After 911, when Bush declared the WoT but did NOT bring the troops home to guard the US, I knew it was all a ruse- and I was a kid, but it seemed more than obvious. Now the hate machine is in full force to grab the attention so most won't see that everything is pretty much a lie.

I did the calculations once regarding the National Guard. I think it came out that given the number of personnel and the amount of time they are required to serve, one weekend a month plus two weeks a year, that with a little tweaking there would be 2 National guard members per mile of border 365 days a year. Now that was just on the southern border, mind you. That, plus some electronic surveillance (drones) would do much better than the wall. And it would allow them training time actually defending the border.

[AuH20]

lol brainless authoritarians. At least there is still some pushback here against you cretins

The greatest wave of authoritarianism is seeding from across the border. What's left of the BoR will be destroyed after the globalized left is done with it. We'll be lucky if the US disassembles, before this day of reckoning arrives.

[Swordsmyth]

Simple Ron Paul solution: NO ENTITLEMENTS.

Everyone wins.

You are one of those who keeps telling us they are hard working and come here for the opportunity.
Liberty (and we have more than most places) creates wealth and wealth attracts parasites.
If you want to cut ICE back we must put troops on the border and clear out the current illegal population first.

[CCTelander]

Russian trolls??? ;)


I don't know. All I can say is that some people around here certainly do have a whole lot to say, and an apparently unlimited amount of time in which to say it. They all pretty much say the same basic things too. ;)

[Ender]

You are one of those who keeps telling us they are hard working and come here for the opportunity.
Liberty (and we have more than most places) creates wealth and wealth attracts parasites.
If you want to cut ICE back we must put troops on the border and clear out the current illegal population first.

Right at the end of RP's Liberty Report w/John Whitehead, they talk about the REAL problem of immigration: the WoD.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?523814-Resisting-The-Creeping-Police-State-With-Special-Guest-John-Whitehead&p=6647337#post6647337

[Anti Federalist]

#1 I'm not going to 'thank' any government functionary for anything, ever.

WTF is wrong with you?

Alphabet agencies are the enemy of freedom, there's not one of the cocksuckers employed by them who is worthy of simple politeness let alone 'thanks'.

Thank a tick next time one burrows into the very underside of your nut-sack, at least they're industrious and accept full responsibility for their actions.

Good God man. :mad:

That.

And +rep covered as well.

[Anti Federalist]

The greatest wave of authoritarianism is seeding from across the border. What's left of the BoR will be destroyed after the globalized left is done with it. We'll be lucky if the US disassembles, before this day of reckoning arrives.

I agree.

But there are better ways to stop the immigrant wave of incoming socialists than a Bush era post 9/11 cluster fuck like ICE and "constitution free zones".

I'm certainly not going to "thank" what amounts to TSA idjits with guns.

[Influenza]

The greatest wave of authoritarianism is seeding from across the border. What's left of the BoR will be destroyed after the globalized left is done with it. We'll be lucky if the US disassembles, before this day of reckoning arrives.
lol no, the biggest authoritarians are already here, they are the people who propagated the drug war for decades with the purpose of keeping minorities poor and powerless. They are the people who constantly vote for politicians that bomb other countries who didn't attack us based purely on lies. They are the people who think Snowden is a traitor who should be hanged for treason and whole-heartedly support the surveillance state. They are the people who have "We Back the Badge" signs in their yards.

And what do these people have in common? Most of them have voted exclusively R for the last 50 years.
Those are all standard positions that Republican voters have held over the last few decades. Your mainstream Republican voter doesn't care about the 4th ammendment, loves war, and wants to ban services and goods based on their subjective whims. But the real enemies are people who accepted the implicit existence of the social contract, aka they accepted the reality of the global situation, and think governments should spend that money to help poor people instead of bomb other countries LUL. But I suppose yall will be incapable of admitting that big government demoncrat voters support far less destructive policies than big government republican voters.

[AuH20]

lol no, the biggest authoritarians are already here, they are the people who propagated the drug war for decades with the purpose of keeping minorities poor and powerless. They are the people who constantly vote for politicians that bomb other countries who didn't attack us based purely on lies. They are the people who think Snowden is a traitor who should be hanged for treason and whole-heartedly support the surveillance state. They are the people who have "We Back the Badge" signs in their yards.

And what do these people have in common? Most of them have voted exclusively R for the last 50 years.
Those are all standard positions that Republican voters have held over the last few decades. Your mainstream Republican voter doesn't care about the 4th ammendment, loves war, and wants to ban services and goods based on their subjective whims. But the real enemies are people who accepted the implicit existence of the social contract, aka they accepted the reality of the global situation, and think governments should spend that money to help poor people instead of bomb other countries LUL. But I suppose yall will be incapable of admitting that big government demoncrat voters support far less destructive policies than big government republican voters.

Those authoritarians are the milder version of what is entering this country on a daily basis. Our new friends will make the boomers look like pikers. So much for the first amendment, second amendment and property rights if they have their way. And don't forget the globalist left's incessant push to wage a real, physical war against Russia. Such noble principles in action.

[Swordsmyth]

lol no, the biggest authoritarians are already here, they are the people who propagated the drug war for decades with the purpose of keeping minorities poor and powerless. They are the people who constantly vote for politicians that bomb other countries who didn't attack us based purely on lies. They are the people who think Snowden is a traitor who should be hanged for treason and whole-heartedly support the surveillance state. They are the people who have "We Back the Badge" signs in their yards.

And what do these people have in common? Most of them have voted exclusively R for the last 50 years.
Those are all standard positions that Republican voters have held over the last few decades. Your mainstream Republican voter doesn't care about the 4th ammendment, loves war, and wants to ban services and goods based on their subjective whims. But the real enemies are people who accepted the implicit existence of the social contract, aka they accepted the reality of the global situation, and think governments should spend that money to help poor people instead of bomb other countries LUL. But I suppose yall will be incapable of admitting that big government demoncrat voters support far less destructive policies than big government republican voters.

LOL
The Demoncrats do all that and more.

[AuH20]

LOL
The Demoncrats do all that and more.

It's not even about democrat. We're introducing a more desperate, dependent species into the mix. In turn, expect a more aggressive strain of statism to meet the 'needs' of the newcomers. Forget the U.S. Constitution, Bill of Rights and other historical norms. There is no natural restrictor plate in place to prevent high acceleration into the proverbial wall. These people have no allegiance to anything.

[Swordsmyth]

It's not even about democrat. We're introducing a more desperate, dependent species into the mix. In turn, expect a more aggressive strain of statism to meet the 'needs' of the newcomers. Forget the U.S. Constitution, Bill of Rights and other historical norms.

Which is what the Demoncrats have wanted for generations.
I know they have allies on the "right" but the Dems are the body of the movement.

[AuH20]

Which is what the Demoncrats have wanted for generations.
I know they have allies on the "right" but the Dems are the body of the movement.

I don't even think the democrats can control what they are instigating. They are stirring up racial genocide, masquerading as a political movement. And once that longstanding problem is eradicated, their acolytes will move onto the next item on the agenda, since it is a Neverending Revolution, based off perceived grievances.

[Swordsmyth]

I don't even think the democrats can control what they are instigating. They are stirring up racial genocide, masquerading as a political movement. And once that problem is eradicated, their acolytes will move onto the next item on the agenda, since it is a Neverending Revolution, based off perceived grievances.

They can't control it but they are arrogant enough to think they can.

[Influenza]

I don't even think the democrats can control what they are instigating. They are stirring up racial genocide, masquerading as a political movement. And once that longstanding problem is eradicated, their acolytes will move onto the next item on the agenda, since it is a Neverending Revolution, based off perceived grievances.
Ahh yes, only the Democrats are instigating racial division, definitely not the guy who said the majority of Mexican immigrants are rapists and murderers.

[johnwk]

Some groups are given preferential treatment.


I think a merit based system, as President Trump has proposed, is in our nation's interest. Do you agree? But, what does that have to do with thanking ICE for the great work it has been doing?


JWK



The primary function of a Supreme Court Justice is to observe the plain text of our Constitution, and give effect to its documented legislative intent which gives context to its text.

[Swordsmyth]

Ahh yes, only the Democrats are instigating racial division, definitely not the guy who said the majority of Mexican immigrants are rapists and murderers.
That isn't what he said and a disproportionate number of ILLEGALS are rapists and murderers.

[johnwk]

#1 I'm not going to 'thank' any government functionary for anything, ever.

WTF is wrong with you?

Alphabet agencies are the enemy of freedom, there's not one of the $#@!s employed by them who is worthy of simple politeness let alone 'thanks'.

Thank a tick next time one burrows into the very underside of your nut-sack, at least they're industrious and accept full responsibility for their actions.

Good God man. :mad:

As a former first responder, your post is very disappointing to me.


JWK




The primary function of a Supreme Court Justice is to observe the plain text of our Constitution, and give effect to its documented legislative intent which gives context to its text.

[phill4paul]

As a former first responder, your post is very disappointing to me.


JWK



If'n you were a tax tick then that's exactly what we'd expect. Unless you worked as a volunteer. As I have done in the past.

[johnwk]

You are one of those who keeps telling us they are hard working and come here for the opportunity.
Liberty (and we have more than most places) creates wealth and wealth attracts parasites.
If you want to cut ICE back we must put troops on the border and clear out the current illegal population first.



Anarchists do not believe in the enemies of Liberty being dealt with by the hand of government. They believe Peter Pan and Tinker Bell will come to their rescue.

JWK



The liberty to succeed or fail at one’s own hand is a socialists’ nightmare and not the American Dream

[Swordsmyth]

Anarchists do not believe in the enemies of Liberty being dealt with by the hand of government. They believe Peter Pan and Tinker Bell will come to their rescue.

JWK



The liberty to succeed or fail at one’s own hand is a socialists’ nightmare and not the American Dream


It is worse than that, they believe the only enemy of liberty is government.

[tod evans]

Imagine what our property taxes, healthcare & car insurance premiums would look like with no ICE? It's sad that it's gotten to this point that ICE is warranted and needed.

No government program is "warranted and needed".

Get government out of the way and regular people would handle immigrants, welfare, food and medical as they see fit.

Government created this problem, asking government to fix it is foolish at best.

[Swordsmyth]

No government program is "warranted and needed".

Get government out of the way and regular people would handle immigrants, welfare, food and medical as they see fit.

Government created this problem, asking government to fix it is foolish at best.

Mob Rule<The Rule of Law
Your liberty would soon be crushed by your neighbors and they would quickly set up tyrannical governments.

[tod evans]

As a former first responder, your post is very disappointing to me.


JWK


I was a "first responder", licenced paramedic and Navy corpsman, yet I take umbrage at your position not my own.

Working for government isn't something to be proud of and I'm certainly not going to thank any of those over-paid imbeciles for sucking on the tax-tit.

What "first responder" position has caused you to view government functionaries in a positive light?

[phill4paul]

Mob Rule<The Rule of Law
Your liberty would soon be crushed by your neighbors and they would quickly set up tyrannical governments.

I'm pretty sure me and my neighbors would be fine. As I'm pretty sure tod and his would also. You are starting to sound like a liberal that believes the government is a necessary evil as long as it does the things that you want it to.

[Anti Globalist]

Yeah see I kind of have this philosophy where I don't thank government agencies for nothing.

[thoughtomator]

ICE is rescuing a great many people, including a whole lot of children, from lives of sex slavery.

I have a feeling the liberty of those people won't matter much to those committed to throwing open our borders BAMN, but there it is.

[Swordsmyth]

I'm pretty sure me and my neighbors would be fine. As I'm pretty sure tod and his would also. You are starting to sound like a liberal that believes the government is a necessary evil as long as it does the things that you want it to.

You and your neighbors might be fine for awhile or maybe not, as AF likes to point out liberty is not popular, in any case even if you live in the most libertarian area of the most libertarian county in the most libertarian state your nearest big city neighbors would form a government and impose it on you, if they had trouble they would get the help of other big cities from around your state and region.

My position is what it always has been, government is inevitable and the only defense against it is a limited government.

[tod evans]

Mob Rule<The Rule of Law
Your liberty would soon be crushed by your neighbors and they would quickly set up tyrannical governments.

Gosh!

What would be different?

[phill4paul]

You and your neighbors might be fine for awhile or maybe not, as AF likes to point out liberty is not popular, in any case even if you live in the most libertarian area of the most libertarian county in the most libertarian state your nearest big city neighbors would form a government and impose it on you, if they had trouble they would get the help of other big cities from around your state and region.

My position is what it always has been, government is inevitable and the only defense against it is a limited government.

One can hardly believe that the government we have is anything close to "limited." I'd rather take my chances at this point. The government you give power to eventually uses it against you.

[Swordsmyth]

Gosh!

What would be different?

No Bill of Rights or any other Constitutional protections.

[phill4paul]

ICE is rescuing a great many people, including a whole lot of children, from lives of sex slavery.

I have a feeling the liberty of those people won't matter much to those committed to throwing open our borders BAMN, but there it is.

Locally elected sheriffs could handle that. National Guardsmen on the border could prevent it. No need for a Federal agency to suck up tax dollars. Though I'm sure you could compromise with some liberals that are also for big government. Perhaps, double welfare and allow for a 50% increase in ICE agents? Would that work for you? It's ALL about the great compromise when you are talking Federal government.

[AuH20]

No Bill of Rights or any other Constitutional protections.

Basically the remnants of the Constitution completely obliterated. From soft tyranny to hard tyranny.

[Swordsmyth]

One can hardly believe that the government we have is anything close to "limited." I'd rather take my chances at this point. The government you give power to eventually uses it against you.

The sad part is that it is limited compared to what would be setup by modern men.
I'd rather try to reform what we have than jump out of the frying pan into the fire.

[phill4paul]

No Bill of Rights or any other Constitutional protections.

That's so cute. Believing that the BoR and the Constitution actually protects you. Bless your heart.

[Swordsmyth]

Locally elected sheriffs could handle that. National Guardsmen on the border could prevent it. No need for a Federal agency to suck up tax dollars. Though I'm sure you could compromise with some liberals that are also for big government. Perhaps, double welfare and allow for a 50% increase in ICE agents? Would that work for you? It's ALL about the great compromise when you are talking Federal government.
I'll agree to cut ICE to the bone AFTER the border is secured and the illegals are deported, I won't even demand that welfare be ended first.

[tod evans]

You and your neighbors might be fine for awhile or maybe not, as AF likes to point out liberty is not popular, in any case even if you live in the most libertarian area of the most libertarian county in the most libertarian state your nearest big city neighbors would form a government and impose it on you, if they had trouble they would get the help of other big cities from around your state and region.

My position is what it always has been, government is inevitable and the only defense against it is a limited government.

You severely overestimate city-folk..

Within the first month 75% or more would die, the remaining 25% would be the most ruthless with maybe 1% of those possessing any cunning...

Out here in the sticks we hunt coon and hogs for sport and make no mistake either is more suited to a rural environment than the most cunning and ruthless city dweller.

So how pray-tell do you envision these fine upstanding paragons of humanity overpowering country folk?

[Swordsmyth]

That's so cute. Believing that the BoR and the Constitution actually protects you. Bless your heart.

They do more than not having them would.

[tod evans]

No Bill of Rights or any other Constitutional protections.

:rolleyes:

[Swordsmyth]

You severely overestimate city-folk..

Within the first month 75% or more would die, the remaining 25% would be the most ruthless with maybe 1% of those possessing any cunning...

Out here in the sticks we hunt coon and hogs for sport and make no mistake either is more suited to a rural environment than the most cunning and ruthless city dweller.

So how pray-tell do you envision these fine upstanding paragons of humanity overpowering country folk?

Sheer numbers and ruthlessness, the same way the North beat down the South, now they would probably get foreign help on a more official basis than the hordes of immigrants the Yankees recruited.

[Swordsmyth]

:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:

[phill4paul]

The sad part is that it is limited compared to what would be setup by modern men.
I'd rather try to reform what we have than jump out of the frying pan into the fire.

The sad part is that D.C. wasn't burned down long ago, individual states having retained their rights, and we would be a confederacy instead of a boiling mass of handout recipients.

[Swordsmyth]

The sad part is that D.C. wasn't burned down long ago, individual states having retained their rights, and we would be a confederacy instead of a boiling mass of handout recipients.
On that we agree.

[phill4paul]

Sheer numbers and ruthlessness, the same way the North beat down the South, now they would probably get foreign help on a more official basis than the hordes of immigrant the Yankees recruited.

You sound like a Loyalist. Are you a Loyalist?

[tod evans]

Sheer numbers and ruthlessness, the same way the North beat down the South, now they would probably get foreign help on a more official basis than the hordes of immigrant the Yankees recruited.

When 'The Nawth' started the war of Southern oppression things were a might different..

I think you'd be surprised who'd band with who today.

[phill4paul]

They do more than not having them would.

I really do not see where the BoR or the Constitution have any resemblance to the original intent. That is GONE. Now individuals are left begging for scraps from their masters table all the while giving up half their grain. So that the Federal government will provide them that which they ought to do for themselves.

[johnwk]

Get government out of the way and regular people would handle immigrants, welfare, food and medical as they see fit.

Government created this problem, asking government to fix it is foolish at best.

How do you think our existing governments came into existence. The people got together and decided there was a need for government in defined and limited areas, and agree to rules set forth in state and our United State's constitutions.


To not have such rules is anarchy, confusing, and the height of stupidity.


JWK

[Swordsmyth]

You sound like a Loyalist. Are you a Loyalist?

Loyal to what?

[Swordsmyth]

I really do not see where the BoR or the Constitution have any resemblance to the original intent. That is GONE. Now individuals are left begging for scraps from their masters table all the while giving up half their grain. So that the Federal government will provide them that which they ought to do for themselves.

It could be worse...........MUCH worse.
I have no love for the present state of things but jumping into the fire is not a better option right now.

[phill4paul]

How do you think our existing governments came into existence. The people got together and decided there was a need for government in defined and limited areas, and agree to rules set forth in state and our United State's constitutions.


To not have such rules is anarchy, confusing, and the height of stupidity.


JWK

And from that starting point, as always, it's gotten totally out of hand. Government NEVER decreases except by revolution. You are championing a political system that has grown far beyond that which the founders envisioned. You would have been a Republican in the 1860's or a Loyalist in the 1770's. Both of which were destructive to a confederacy of independent states and colonies. And here we are.

[johnwk]

I really do not see where the BoR or the Constitution have any resemblance to the original intent. .

You have just identified the problem, and the problem is not in our Constitution. The problem is a lack of the people rising up and forcefully dealing with public servants who not only ignore the text of our constitutions [state and federal] but their documented legislative intent which gives context to their text. In this view, the notion we do not need governments [state and federal] and the people with take care of things without government, falls flat on its face!


JWK

[AuH20]

It could be worse...........MUCH worse.
I have no love for the present state of things but jumping into the fire is not a better option right now.

We need Generation Z to accomplish our goals. They're not ready to physically fight YET. That is our job. To prepare Gen Z for the coming conflagration.

[tod evans]

How do you think our existing governments came into existence. The people got together and decided there was a need for government in defined and limited areas, and agree to rules set forth in state and our United State's constitutions.


To not have such rules is anarchy, confusing, and the height of stupidity.


JWK


The same may be said for supporting today's government that represents nobody I know.

I'm okay with you keeping your form of government, all I ask is that you get rid of every man, woman and child who has 'drawn a check' in the last decade, as in out of the country never to return.

Welfare moms to federal judges, bean-counters to kops, all of 'em gone! Then I'm good with you starting government over, when all the cancer is gone and not before.

[Ender]

And from that starting point, as always, it's gotten totally out of hand. Government NEVER decreases except by revolution. You are championing a political system that has grown far beyond that which the founders envisioned. You would have been a Republican in the 1860's or a Loyalist in the 1770's. Both of which were destructive to a confederacy of independent states and colonies. And here we are.

Exactly.

[phill4paul]

Loyal to what?

The embedded government system of that time of the Revolution, and the one now. Afraid that a change to the status-quo might ruin your existence. The need for a supreme, Federal, leadership to make your perceived slights be made right. All the while complaining that the same leadership isn't working the way you would like. But, just if.....

[Swordsmyth]

The embedded government system of that time of the Revolution, and the one now. Afraid that a change to the status-quo might ruin your existence. The need for a supreme, Federal, leadership to make your perceived slights be made right. All the while complaining that the same leadership isn't working the way you would like. But, just if.....
If we had a revolution led by men like our founders and promoting a return to minarchy and GOD given rights I would join.......................We do not.

[phill4paul]

You have just identified the problem, and the problem is not in our Constitution. The problem is a lack of the people rising up and forcefully dealing with public servants who not only ignore the text of our constitutions [state and federal] but their documented legislative intent which gives context to their text. In this view, the notion we do not need governments [state and federal] and the people with take care of things without government, falls flat on its face!


JWK

But, there is a whole raft of armed government functionaries, that you advocate for, that will keep you from doing that. And in that context your belief in the "rule of law," "need more law enforcement," argument falls flat on it's face. ;)

[phill4paul]

If we had a revolution led by men like our founders and promoting a return to minarchy and GOD given rights I would join.......................We do not.

Well, do like me and just quit giving the fuckers your ducats. I'm a revolution of one. We could be a revolution of two?

[phill4paul]

We need Generation Z to accomplish our goals. They're not ready to physically fight YET. That is our job. To prepare Gen Z for the coming conflagration.

Pussy. Just like a politician. Sending others of to fight your battles for you.

[tod evans]

From an E-Mail earlier;


545 vs. 300,000,000 People -By Charlie Reese



This should be on the front page of every newspaper.
Charley Reese's Final column!
A very interesting column. COMPLETELY NEUTRAL.
Be sure to Read the Poem at the end..

Charley Reese's final column for the Orlando Sentinel... He has been a
journalist for 49 years. He is retiring and this is HIS LAST COLUMN.
Be sure to read the Tax List at the end.

This is about as clear and easy to understand as it can be. The article
below is completely neutral, neither anti-republican or democrat. Charlie
Reese, a retired reporter for the Orlando Sentinel, has hit the nail
directly on the head, defining clearly who it is that in the final analysis
must assume responsibility for the judgments made that impact each one of us
every day. It's a short but good read. Worth the time. Worth remembering!

545 vs. 300,000,000 People
-By Charlie Reese

Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then
campaign against them.

Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are
against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?

Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and
high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?

You and I don't propose a federal budget. The President does.

You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations.
The House of Representatives does.

You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does.

You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does.

You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.

One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one President, and nine Supreme Court
justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly,
legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems
that plague this country.

I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was
created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty
to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central
bank.

I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They
have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a
congressman, or a President to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't care if
they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the
power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is
the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes.

Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what
they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of
party.

What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount
of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood
up and criticized the President for creating deficits.. ( The President can
only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.)

The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole
responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving
appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House?( John Boehner. He
is the leader of the majority party. He and fellow House members, not the
President, can approve any budget they want. ) If the President vetoes it,
they can pass it over his veto if they agree to. [The House has passed a
budget but the Senate has not approved a budget in over three years. The
President's proposed budgets have gotten almost unanimous rejections in the
Senate in that time. ]

It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace 545
people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of incompetence and
irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is not
traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth
that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must
follow that what exists is what they want to exist.

If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair.

If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red.

If the Army & Marines are in Iraq and Afghanistan it's because they want
them in Iraq and Afghanistan ..

If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan
not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.

There are no insoluble government problems.

Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire
and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they
can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from
whom they can take this power.
Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists
disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics"
that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.

Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible. They, and they alone,
have the power.

They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their
bosses. Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own
employees... We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their
mess!

Charlie Reese is a former columnist of the Orlando Sentinel Newspaper.

What you do with this article now that you have read it... is up to you.
This might be funny if it weren't so true.
Be sure to read all the way to the end:

Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table,
At which he's fed.

Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes
Are the rule.

Tax his work,
Tax his pay,
He works for
peanuts anyway!

Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.

Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.

Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he
Tries to think.

Tax his cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries
Tax his tears.

Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways
To tax his ass.

Tax all he has
Then let him know
That you won't be done
Till he has no dough.

When he screams and hollers;
Then tax him some more,
Tax him till
He's good and sore.

Then tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in
Which he's laid...

Put these words
Upon his tomb,
'Taxes drove me
to my doom...'

When he's gone,
Do not relax,
Its time to apply
The inheritance tax.
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (currently 44.75 cents per gallon) Gross Receipts Tax Hunting
License Tax Inheritance Tax Inventory Tax IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties
(tax on top of tax) Liquor Tax Luxury Taxes Marriage License Tax Medicare
Tax Personal Property Tax Property Tax Real Estate Tax Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax Road Usage Tax Recreational Vehicle Tax Sales Tax School
Tax State Income Tax State Unemployment Tax (SUTA) Telephone Federal Excise
Tax Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax Telephone Federal, State and
Local Surcharge Taxes Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax Telephone
Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax Utility Taxes Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax Watercraft Registration Tax Well Permit Tax Workers
Compensation Tax

STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY?
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, & our nation was the most
prosperous in the world. We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest
middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.

[johnwk]

.

See Video: Black protesters confront pro-Illegal immigrant supporters with raw passion (http://www.bizpacreview.com/2014/07/08/video-black-protesters-confront-pro-illegal-immigrant-supporters-with-raw-passion-130315)



I hope this July 4th Brings another debate on the border between Black American Citizens, and those who are invading our borders for free government cheese financed by hard working American Citizens.

JWK




American citizens are sick and tired of being made into tax-slaves to finance a maternity ward for the poverty stricken populations of other countries who invade America’s borders to give birth.

[phill4paul]

From an E-Mail earlier;


545 vs. 300,000,000 People -By Charlie Reese



This should be on the front page of every newspaper.
Charley Reese's Final column!
A very interesting column. COMPLETELY NEUTRAL.
Be sure to Read the Poem at the end..

Charley Reese's final column for the Orlando Sentinel... He has been a
journalist for 49 years. He is retiring and this is HIS LAST COLUMN.
Be sure to read the Tax List at the end.

This is about as clear and easy to understand as it can be. The article
below is completely neutral, neither anti-republican or democrat. Charlie
Reese, a retired reporter for the Orlando Sentinel, has hit the nail
directly on the head, defining clearly who it is that in the final analysis
must assume responsibility for the judgments made that impact each one of us
every day. It's a short but good read. Worth the time. Worth remembering!

545 vs. 300,000,000 People
-By Charlie Reese

Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then
campaign against them.

Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are
against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?

Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and
high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?

You and I don't propose a federal budget. The President does.

You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations.
The House of Representatives does.

You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does.

You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does.

You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.

One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one President, and nine Supreme Court
justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly,
legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems
that plague this country.

I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was
created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty
to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central
bank.

I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They
have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a
congressman, or a President to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't care if
they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the
power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is
the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes.

Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what
they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of
party.

What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount
of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood
up and criticized the President for creating deficits.. ( The President can
only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.)

The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole
responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving
appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House?( John Boehner. He
is the leader of the majority party. He and fellow House members, not the
President, can approve any budget they want. ) If the President vetoes it,
they can pass it over his veto if they agree to. [The House has passed a
budget but the Senate has not approved a budget in over three years. The
President's proposed budgets have gotten almost unanimous rejections in the
Senate in that time. ]

It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace 545
people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of incompetence and
irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is not
traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth
that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must
follow that what exists is what they want to exist.

If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair.

If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red.

If the Army & Marines are in Iraq and Afghanistan it's because they want
them in Iraq and Afghanistan ..

If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan
not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.

There are no insoluble government problems.

Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire
and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they
can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from
whom they can take this power.
Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists
disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics"
that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.

Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible. They, and they alone,
have the power.

They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their
bosses. Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own
employees... We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their
mess!

Charlie Reese is a former columnist of the Orlando Sentinel Newspaper.

What you do with this article now that you have read it... is up to you.
This might be funny if it weren't so true.
Be sure to read all the way to the end:

Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table,
At which he's fed.

Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes
Are the rule.

Tax his work,
Tax his pay,
He works for
peanuts anyway!

Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.

Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.

Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he
Tries to think.

Tax his cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries
Tax his tears.

Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways
To tax his ass.

Tax all he has
Then let him know
That you won't be done
Till he has no dough.

When he screams and hollers;
Then tax him some more,
Tax him till
He's good and sore.

Then tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in
Which he's laid...

Put these words
Upon his tomb,
'Taxes drove me
to my doom...'

When he's gone,
Do not relax,
Its time to apply
The inheritance tax.
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (currently 44.75 cents per gallon) Gross Receipts Tax Hunting
License Tax Inheritance Tax Inventory Tax IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties
(tax on top of tax) Liquor Tax Luxury Taxes Marriage License Tax Medicare
Tax Personal Property Tax Property Tax Real Estate Tax Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax Road Usage Tax Recreational Vehicle Tax Sales Tax School
Tax State Income Tax State Unemployment Tax (SUTA) Telephone Federal Excise
Tax Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax Telephone Federal, State and
Local Surcharge Taxes Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax Telephone
Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax Utility Taxes Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax Watercraft Registration Tax Well Permit Tax Workers
Compensation Tax

STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY?
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, & our nation was the most
prosperous in the world. We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest
middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.

Worth giving a link to: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1995-03-07/news/os-ed-charley-reese-545-column-07111120110711_1_congress-votes-deficits-bureaucracy

Shove THAT in your authoritarian friends, right or left, craw.

Still no rep to give.

[Ender]

From an E-Mail earlier;


545 vs. 300,000,000 People -By Charlie Reese



This should be on the front page of every newspaper.
Charley Reese's Final column!
A very interesting column. COMPLETELY NEUTRAL.
Be sure to Read the Poem at the end..

Charley Reese's final column for the Orlando Sentinel... He has been a
journalist for 49 years. He is retiring and this is HIS LAST COLUMN.
Be sure to read the Tax List at the end.

This is about as clear and easy to understand as it can be. The article
below is completely neutral, neither anti-republican or democrat. Charlie
Reese, a retired reporter for the Orlando Sentinel, has hit the nail
directly on the head, defining clearly who it is that in the final analysis
must assume responsibility for the judgments made that impact each one of us
every day. It's a short but good read. Worth the time. Worth remembering!

545 vs. 300,000,000 People
-By Charlie Reese

Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then
campaign against them.

Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are
against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?

Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and
high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?

You and I don't propose a federal budget. The President does.

You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations.
The House of Representatives does.

You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does.

You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does.

You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.

One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one President, and nine Supreme Court
justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly,
legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems
that plague this country.

I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was
created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty
to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central
bank.

I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They
have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a
congressman, or a President to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't care if
they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the
power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is
the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes.

Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what
they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of
party.

What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount
of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood
up and criticized the President for creating deficits.. ( The President can
only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.)

The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole
responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving
appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House?( John Boehner. He
is the leader of the majority party. He and fellow House members, not the
President, can approve any budget they want. ) If the President vetoes it,
they can pass it over his veto if they agree to. [The House has passed a
budget but the Senate has not approved a budget in over three years. The
President's proposed budgets have gotten almost unanimous rejections in the
Senate in that time. ]

It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace 545
people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of incompetence and
irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is not
traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth
that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must
follow that what exists is what they want to exist.

If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair.

If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red.

If the Army & Marines are in Iraq and Afghanistan it's because they want
them in Iraq and Afghanistan ..

If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan
not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.

There are no insoluble government problems.

Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire
and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they
can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from
whom they can take this power.
Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists
disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics"
that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.

Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible. They, and they alone,
have the power.

They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their
bosses. Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own
employees... We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their
mess!

Charlie Reese is a former columnist of the Orlando Sentinel Newspaper.

What you do with this article now that you have read it... is up to you.
This might be funny if it weren't so true.
Be sure to read all the way to the end:

Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table,
At which he's fed.

Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes
Are the rule.

Tax his work,
Tax his pay,
He works for
peanuts anyway!

Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.

Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.

Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he
Tries to think.

Tax his cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries
Tax his tears.

Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways
To tax his ass.

Tax all he has
Then let him know
That you won't be done
Till he has no dough.

When he screams and hollers;
Then tax him some more,
Tax him till
He's good and sore.

Then tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in
Which he's laid...

Put these words
Upon his tomb,
'Taxes drove me
to my doom...'

When he's gone,
Do not relax,
Its time to apply
The inheritance tax.
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (currently 44.75 cents per gallon) Gross Receipts Tax Hunting
License Tax Inheritance Tax Inventory Tax IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties
(tax on top of tax) Liquor Tax Luxury Taxes Marriage License Tax Medicare
Tax Personal Property Tax Property Tax Real Estate Tax Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax Road Usage Tax Recreational Vehicle Tax Sales Tax School
Tax State Income Tax State Unemployment Tax (SUTA) Telephone Federal Excise
Tax Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax Telephone Federal, State and
Local Surcharge Taxes Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax Telephone
Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax Utility Taxes Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax Watercraft Registration Tax Well Permit Tax Workers
Compensation Tax

STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY?
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, & our nation was the most
prosperous in the world. We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest
middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.

AMEN!

Wish I could +rep you again!

[Influenza]

That isn't what he said and a disproportionate number of ILLEGALS are rapists and murderers.
He didn't say illegal immigrants though, he just said "When Mexico sends it's people, they're not sending their best," then goes on to talk about rapists and criminals. No mention of illegals. Any numbers to back up your assertion by the way? I didn't think so. You're not exactly a rational person.

[Swordsmyth]

He didn't say illegal immigrants though, he just said "When Mexico sends it's people, they're not sending their best," then goes on to talk about rapists and criminals. No mention of illegals. Any numbers to back up your assertion by the way? I didn't think so. You're not exactly a rational person.
The vast majority of Mexicans who come here are illegal and and I and others have dug up and posted the numbers before, you aren't worth the effort to do it again.

[Influenza]

The vast majority of Mexicans who come here are illegal and and I and others have dug up and posted the numbers before, you aren't worth the effort to do it again.
You've made over 16k worthless posts already (20+ posts a day.) I'm sure someone with no life such as yourself has time to dig up some misleading and incomplete statistics

[Swordsmyth]

You've made over 16k worthless posts already (20+ posts a day.) I'm sure someone with no life such as yourself has time to dig up some misleading and incomplete statistics

Not for a worthless loser like you.

[FvS]

Thank you ICE!

https://i.imgur.com/YQyCeBo.jpg

[shakey1]

From an E-Mail earlier;


545 vs. 300,000,000 People -By Charlie Reese



This should be on the front page of every newspaper.
Charley Reese's Final column!
A very interesting column. COMPLETELY NEUTRAL.
Be sure to Read the Poem at the end..

Charley Reese's final column for the Orlando Sentinel... He has been a
journalist for 49 years. He is retiring and this is HIS LAST COLUMN.
Be sure to read the Tax List at the end.

This is about as clear and easy to understand as it can be. The article
below is completely neutral, neither anti-republican or democrat. Charlie
Reese, a retired reporter for the Orlando Sentinel, has hit the nail
directly on the head, defining clearly who it is that in the final analysis
must assume responsibility for the judgments made that impact each one of us
every day. It's a short but good read. Worth the time. Worth remembering!

545 vs. 300,000,000 People
-By Charlie Reese

Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then
campaign against them.

Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are
against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?

Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and
high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?

You and I don't propose a federal budget. The President does.

You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations.
The House of Representatives does.

You and I don't write the tax code, Congress does.

You and I don't set fiscal policy, Congress does.

You and I don't control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.

One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one President, and nine Supreme Court
justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly,
legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems
that plague this country.

I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was
created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty
to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central
bank.

I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They
have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a
congressman, or a President to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't care if
they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the
power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is
the legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes.

Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what
they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of
party.

What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount
of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood
up and criticized the President for creating deficits.. ( The President can
only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.)

The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole
responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving
appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House?( John Boehner. He
is the leader of the majority party. He and fellow House members, not the
President, can approve any budget they want. ) If the President vetoes it,
they can pass it over his veto if they agree to. [The House has passed a
budget but the Senate has not approved a budget in over three years. The
President's proposed budgets have gotten almost unanimous rejections in the
Senate in that time. ]

It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace 545
people who stand convicted -- by present facts -- of incompetence and
irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem that is not
traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth
that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must
follow that what exists is what they want to exist.

If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair.

If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red.

If the Army & Marines are in Iraq and Afghanistan it's because they want
them in Iraq and Afghanistan ..

If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan
not available to the people, it's because they want it that way.

There are no insoluble government problems.

Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire
and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they
can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from
whom they can take this power.
Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists
disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation," or "politics"
that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.

Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible. They, and they alone,
have the power.

They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their
bosses. Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own
employees... We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their
mess!

Charlie Reese is a former columnist of the Orlando Sentinel Newspaper.

What you do with this article now that you have read it... is up to you.
This might be funny if it weren't so true.
Be sure to read all the way to the end:

Tax his land,
Tax his bed,
Tax the table,
At which he's fed.

Tax his tractor,
Tax his mule,
Teach him taxes
Are the rule.

Tax his work,
Tax his pay,
He works for
peanuts anyway!

Tax his cow,
Tax his goat,
Tax his pants,
Tax his coat.

Tax his ties,
Tax his shirt,
Tax his work,
Tax his dirt.

Tax his tobacco,
Tax his drink,
Tax him if he
Tries to think.

Tax his cigars,
Tax his beers,
If he cries
Tax his tears.

Tax his car,
Tax his gas,
Find other ways
To tax his ass.

Tax all he has
Then let him know
That you won't be done
Till he has no dough.

When he screams and hollers;
Then tax him some more,
Tax him till
He's good and sore.

Then tax his coffin,
Tax his grave,
Tax the sod in
Which he's laid...

Put these words
Upon his tomb,
'Taxes drove me
to my doom...'

When he's gone,
Do not relax,
Its time to apply
The inheritance tax.
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (currently 44.75 cents per gallon) Gross Receipts Tax Hunting
License Tax Inheritance Tax Inventory Tax IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties
(tax on top of tax) Liquor Tax Luxury Taxes Marriage License Tax Medicare
Tax Personal Property Tax Property Tax Real Estate Tax Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax Road Usage Tax Recreational Vehicle Tax Sales Tax School
Tax State Income Tax State Unemployment Tax (SUTA) Telephone Federal Excise
Tax Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax Telephone Federal, State and
Local Surcharge Taxes Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax Telephone
Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax Utility Taxes Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax Watercraft Registration Tax Well Permit Tax Workers
Compensation Tax

STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY?
Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, & our nation was the most
prosperous in the world. We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest
middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.

That is golden.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2422/3777084698_a7ef4bf328_z.jpg

... this goes here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0zaebtU-CA

[CaptUSA]

The vast majority of Mexicans who come here are illegal and and I and others have dug up and posted the numbers before, you aren't worth the effort to do it again.

Oh, so it's only illegal immigration that you have a problem with... So, we should just make it much, much easier to immigrate legally, then, right? I mean, that'd solve your problem with it.

[TheCount]

You've made over 16k worthless posts already (20+ posts a day.) I'm sure someone with no life such as yourself has time to dig up some misleading and incomplete statistics
He's busy posting threads to slide negative information off of the first page.

[dean.engelhardt]

After reading half this thread, it is apparent that Russia has hacked this site and most accounts are compromised. Since when did these folks object to the elimination of ANY government agency?

Go for the bigger fish, eliminate DHS. DHS is the creation of 9/11.

[AuH20]

1013844859487178752

[Swordsmyth]

Oh, so it's only illegal immigration that you have a problem with... So, we should just make it much, much easier to immigrate legally, then, right? I mean, that'd solve your problem with it.
For different reasons I believe in low legal immigration, I have made that quite clear elsewhere.
Liberty is fragile and importing vast hordes of people who don't believe in it is a bad idea.

[Swordsmyth]

He's busy posting threads to slide negative information off of the first page.

That would explain all the times I post negative information about Trump............................................. ......

[H_H]

Government NEVER decreases except by revolution.

This is off-topic, and does not support or even have anything to do with either side of any of the debates going on in this thread, but quick fact-check:

No historical revolution has ever decreased government.

Fee free to let me know of any counter-examples. I am not aware of every historical event ever; no one is. But I know of not a single government-decreasing revolution.

Historically. There are a plethora of fictional revolutions that do just that. And of course sometimes the historical ones get fictionalized. But I'm looking for historical examples.

[Ender]

This is off-topic, and does not support or even have anything to do with either side of any of the debates going on in this thread, but quick fact-check:

No historical revolution has ever decreased government.

Fee free to let me know of any counter-examples. I am not aware of every historical event ever; no one is. But I know of not a single government-decreasing revolution.

Historically. There are a plethora of fictional revolutions that do just that. And of course sometimes the historical ones get fictionalized. But I'm looking for historical examples.

The US Revolution and the Confederation of the united States did- lasted for about 8 years- until the Constitution Convention formed a strong central gov that has given us the gift we have now.

[CaptUSA]

Liberty is fragile and importing vast hordes of people who don't believe in it is a bad idea.

Lol - I suppose the irony of that statement is completely lost on you, then?

[Swordsmyth]

Lol - I suppose the irony of that statement is completely lost on you, then?

Enlighten me.
But if you are saying that there is no liberty without wide open borders that allow the enemies of liberty in don't bother.

[CCTelander]

Lol - I suppose the irony of that statement is completely lost on you, then?


I know, right?

[CCTelander]

Lol - I suppose the irony of that statement is completely lost on you, then?


Dupe.

[CaptUSA]

Enlighten me.
But if you are saying that there is no liberty without wide open borders that allow the enemies of liberty in don't bother.

I'm saying it's pretty damned ironic for someone who purportedly believes in liberty to want to have agents of the government forcibly violate the liberty of people because you think THEY are the ones who don't believe in liberty!

If you really cared about the "vast hordes of people who don't believe in liberty", you wouldn't have to look outside the borders - they are all around you. They are you!

[Danke]

6036

[Swordsmyth]

I'm saying it's pretty damned ironic for someone who purportedly believes in liberty to want to have agents of the government forcibly violate the liberty of people because you think THEY are the ones who don't believe in liberty!

If you really cared about the "vast hordes of people who don't believe in liberty", you wouldn't have to look outside the borders - they are all around you. They are you!

Throwing out illegals isn't violating anyone's liberty, they don't have a right to be here.


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Swordsmyth http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=6648060#post6648060)


But if you are saying that there is no liberty without wide open borders that allow the enemies of liberty in don't bother.

[CaptUSA]

Throwing out illegals isn't violating anyone's liberty, they don't have a right to be here.

Keep it straight - you weren't talking about "illegals". Nice try, though.

Damn, I can't stand these anti-liberty guys that have infected this forum. "Liberty for me; but none for thee!!!"

[H_H]

The US Revolution and the Confederation of the united States did- lasted for about 8 years- until the Constitution Convention formed a strong central gov that has given us the gift we have now.Incorrect in my opinion, even under the Articles taxes were higher and government more intrusive than before the revolution, but thank you for not being afraid to put yourself out there!

[Swordsmyth]

Keep it straight - you weren't talking about "illegals". Nice try, though.
You are right, but no foreigner has a right to come here, legal immigrants need our permission and we must limit how many we give it to or we will be overrun with communists who will vote for communists and end liberty.

[Ender]

Incorrect in my opinion, even under the Articles taxes were higher and government more intrusive than before the revolution, but thank you for not being afraid to put yourself out there!

The Articles of Confederation was the first written constitution of the United States. Stemming from wartime urgency, its progress was slowed by fears of central authority and extensive land claims by states before was it was ratified on March 1, 1781.

Under these articles, the states remained sovereign and independent, with Congress serving as the last resort on appeal of disputes. Congress was also given the authority to make treaties and alliances, maintain armed forces and coin money. However, the central government lacked the ability to levy taxes and regulate commerce, issues that led to the Constitutional Convention in 1787 for the creation of new federal laws.

[Ender]

Keep it straight - you weren't talking about "illegals". Nice try, though.

Damn, I can't stand these anti-liberty guys that have infected this forum. "Liberty for me; but none for thee!!!"

Ya think?

According to that stance no one has the right to be here 'cept us Injuns. ;)

[Swordsmyth]

Ya think?

According to that stance no one has the right to be here 'cept us Injuns. ;)

The Injuns would have been better off if they thought like me.

[dean.engelhardt]

Enlighten me.
But if you are saying that there is no liberty without wide open borders that allow the enemies of liberty in don't bother.

Liberty cannot be obtained without walls and strong law enforcement presences checking the legality of each person with in walls.:cool:

Wait...that is not liberty, that is prison.

[Swordsmyth]

Liberty cannot be obtained without walls and strong law enforcement presences checking the legality of each person with in walls.:cool:

Wait...that is not liberty, that is prison.

You don't need "strong law enforcement presences checking the legality of each person with in walls" if you properly control who is let through the gates in the first place.

[H_H]

The Articles of Confederation was the first written constitution of the United States. Stemming from wartime urgency, its progress was slowed by fears of central authority and extensive land claims by states before was it was ratified on March 1, 1781.

Under these articles, the states remained sovereign and independent, with Congress serving as the last resort on appeal of disputes. Congress was also given the authority to make treaties and alliances, maintain armed forces and coin money. However, the central government lacked the ability to levy taxes and regulate commerce, issues that led to the Constitutional Convention in 1787 for the creation of new federal laws.
Umm, is your brain on Jimmy Wales' server?

And here I was congratulating you for putting yourself out there.

Ahh well. We work with what we have.

Have you ever asked yourself, Ender, to what degree George Saxe-Coburg-Gotha had the "ability to levy taxes and regulate commerce" in the American colonies?

[phill4paul]

Incorrect in my opinion, even under the Articles taxes were higher and government more intrusive than before the revolution, but thank you for not being afraid to put yourself out there!

For the powers of government which where thrown off I refer you to the Declaration of Independence.

[Ender]

Umm, is your brain on Jimmy Wales' server?

And here I was congratulating you for putting yourself out there.

Ahh well. We work with what we have.

Have you ever asked yourself, Ender, to what degree George Saxe-Coburg-Gotha had the "ability to levy taxes and regulate commerce" in the American colonies?

ID. 10. t

The Central government under the Articles had no power to tax. Only the separate states could tax.

Only the states, not Congress, had the authority to impose taxes and raise revenue. Accordingly, Congress had to request funds from the separate states.

Article VIII: these funds “shall be supplied by the several States in proportion to the value of all land within each State.”

How that money was raised, within each state, was up to the state legislatures.

[Ender]

Liberty cannot be obtained without walls and strong law enforcement presences checking the legality of each person with in walls.:cool:

Wait...that is not liberty, that is prison.

Exactly.

[H_H]

For the powers of government which where thrown off I refer you to the Declaration of Independence.

Dude, were they thrown off?

Like are you all, sure and junk?

[H_H]

ID. 10. t

The Central government under the Articles had no power to tax. Only the separate states could tax.

Only the states, not Congress, had the authority to impose taxes and raise revenue. Accordingly, Congress had to request funds from the separate states.

Article VIII: these funds “shall be supplied by the several States in proportion to the value of all land within each State.”

How that money was raised, within each state, was up to the state legislatures.

Mine dude, you're just, like, pasting words. Words of junk that, like, I already know and junk.

You are not obligated to be the reproductive organ of dry congloterations of words. They can't reproduce themselves across the internet, it's true. And that's sad for them. But that doesn't mean you have to take on the task of doing it for them. That does not have to be your life. You can say No.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51XrT%2BS6BjL._SX320_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

[Ender]

Mine dude, you're just, like, pasting words. Words of junk that, like, I already know and junk.

You are not obligated to be the reproductive organ of dry congloterations of words. They can't reproduce themselves across the internet, it's true. And that's sad for them. But that doesn't mean you have to take on the task of doing it for them. That does not have to be your life. You can say No.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51XrT%2BS6BjL._SX320_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


Helmuth- take your junk elsewhere.

[H_H]

Helmuth- take your junk elsewhere.

Where?

I was just trying to have a real conversation. Basically, I can respect your point of view, I just consider it to be (slightly) misinformed. Here's an interesting exercise:

Find the typical tax levy for a Massachusetts farmer in 1760. Then find the typical tax levy for that same farmer in 1787.

You will not do this. But, hazard a guess. What do you think you would find, Ender?

[Ender]

Where?

I was just trying to have a real conversation. Basically, I can respect your point of view, I just consider it to be (slightly) misinformed. Here's an interesting exercise:

Find the typical tax levy for a Massachusetts farmer in 1760. Then find the typical tax levy for that same farmer in 1787.

You will not do this. But, hazard a guess. What do you think you would find, Ender?

Your talking of a state problem & one that was about the financial recession & people not being paid after the Revolution, that caused Shay's Rebellion. This has nothing to do with Federal Gov taxes.

[Ender]

You don't need "strong law enforcement presences checking the legality of each person with in walls" if you properly control who is let through the gates in the first place.

So much for:

Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

[Swordsmyth]

So much for:

Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

Which was always progressive propaganda.

[Ender]

Which was always progressive propaganda.

Maybe you should redevelop the Know-Nothings.


The refugees seeking haven in America were poor and disease-ridden. They threatened to take jobs away from Americans and strain welfare budgets. They practiced an alien religion and pledged allegiance to a foreign leader. They were bringing with them crime. They were accused of being rapists.

And, worst of all, these undesirables were Irish.

The discrimination faced by the famine refugees was not subtle or insidious. It was right there in black and white, in newspaper classified advertisements that blared “No Irish Need Apply.”

The image of the simian Irishman, imported from Victorian England, was given new life by the pens of illustrators such as Thomas Nast that dripped with prejudice as they sketched Celtic ape-men with sloping foreheads and monstrous appearances.

In 1849, a clandestine fraternal society of native-born Protestant men called the Order of the Star Spangled Banner formed in New York. Bound by sacred oaths and secret passwords, its members wanted a return to the America they once knew, a land of “Temperance, Liberty and Protestantism.” Similar secret societies with menacing names like the Black Snakes and Rough and Readies sprouted across the country.

Within a few years, these societies coalesced around the anti-Catholic, anti-immigrant American Party, whose members were called the “Know-Nothings” because they claimed to “know nothing” when questioned about their politics.

Party members vowed to elect only native-born citizens—but only if they weren’t Roman Catholic. “Know-Nothings believed that Protestantism defined American society. From this flowed their fundamental belief that Catholicism was incompatible with basic American values,” writes Jay P. Dolan in “The Irish Americans: A History.”

[Swordsmyth]

Maybe you should redevelop the Know-Nothings.

Sorry but I want some immigration and the limits I want have nothing to do with race, culture is what is important.

[FvS]

https://i.imgur.com/9dr0B6l.png

[Danke]

So much for:

Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door.


The only problem is the gas tank is full. We don't want to have to be taxed ever more to support this ideal.

[FvS]

Replace the population of Japan with Mexicans. Does Japan stay the same? Obviously not, it would look more like Mexico. Increase the percentage of Mexicans in the U.S. Does the U.S. stay the same? Obviously not, it will look more like Mexico. Should libertarians want the U.S. to become more like Mexico? Why the hell would any sane person want that? Also, how does letting in millions of Democrat voters help the libertarian movement? Do you think Democrats are for open borders because they care about liberty!?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jOPl_SwJBX0/UZ9_DIeOxeI/AAAAAAAAMD0/QUY77VZEsbY/s1600/crazy-pills.gif

https://i.imgur.com/Y18xmo1.png

[The Rebel Poet]

https://youtu.be/APTi7byo3Ig
Hey, somebody had to do it.

https://i.imgur.com/xoSBoJo.gif



#1 I'm not going to 'thank' any government functionary for anything, ever.

WTF is wrong with you?

Alphabet agencies are the enemy of freedom, there's not one of the cocksuckers employed by them who is worthy of simple politeness let alone 'thanks'.

Thank a tick next time one burrows into the very underside of your nut-sack, at least they're industrious and accept full responsibility for their actions.

Good God man. :mad:


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to tod evans again.

https://i.cbc.ca/1.1411134.1379014575!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/hi-thank-you-rtxysxf.jpg


This post can't be +repped enough. We seem to have a severe defficiency of simple sanity like this around here nowadays. What the hell is wrong with people on this board lately?

Thank YOU, tod evans. Thank YOU.


YEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!

Thank you for some sanity!


Covered.

Thank heavens we still have a few liberty lovers left here!


lol brainless authoritarians. At least there is still some pushback here against you cretins


... and......................... covered.

Covered with +rep for all.

[johnwk]

You don't need "strong law enforcement presences checking the legality of each person with in walls" if you properly control who is let through the gates in the first place.

Don't offer common sense to anarchists, it plays no part in their decision making when it comes to immigration. Aside from that, let us take a look at the clear thinking of one of our forefathers stated during our nations first rule on naturalization.

Mr. BURKE thought it of importance to fill the country with useful men, such as farmers, mechanics, and manufacturers, and, therefore, would hold out every encouragement to them to emigrate to America. This class he would receive on liberal terms; and he was satisfied there would be room enough for them, and for their posterity, for five hundred years to come. There was another class of men, whom he did not think useful, and he did not care what impediments were thrown in their way; such as your European merchants, and factors of merchants, who come with a view of remaining so long as will enable them to acquire a fortune, and then they will leave the country, and carry off all their property with them. These people injure us more than they do us good, and, except in this last sentiment, I can compare them to nothing but leeches. They stick to us until they get their fill of our best blood, and then they fall off and leave us. I look upon the privilege of an American citizen to be an honorable one, and it ought not to be thrown away upon such people. There is another class also that I would interdict, that is, the convicts and criminals which they pour out of British jails. I wish sincerely some mode could be adopted to prevent the importation of such; but that, perhaps, is not in our power; the introduction of them ought to be considered as a high misdemeanor. ____RULE OF NATURALIZATION, FEB. 3RD, 1790 (http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llac&fileName=001/llac001.db&recNum=578)


JWK



There is no better way to weaken, destroy and subjugate a prosperous and freedom loving country than by importing the world’s poverty stricken populations into that country and making the country’s existing citizens tax-slaves to support the economic needs of such an invasion.

[johnwk]

So much for:

Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

I see the social democrats mantra has once again found its way into a discussion about illegal immigration.


Just for the record, Emma Lazarus, who wrote the words which appears on the Statute of Liberty was a well-known socialist, and the “poem” which she wrote was suggested to be used to raise funds to build the statue’s pedestal.

Additionally, immigrants coming to America who passed the statute on their way to Elis Island were not granted entry into the United States for a number of reasons. One reason to be rejected was the likelihood of becoming a ward of the state and a public charge.


JWK




Our civil rights ought not be based upon the perverted desires of sexual deviants who now impinge upon the inalienable right of mankind being free to mutually agree in their contracts and associations.

[Ender]

I see the social democrats mantra has once again found its way into a discussion about illegal immigration.


Just for the record, Emma Lazarus, who wrote the words which appears on the Statute of Liberty was a well-known socialist, and the “poem” which she wrote was suggested to be used to raise funds to build the statue’s pedestal.

Additionally, immigrants coming to America who passed the statute on their way to Elis Island were not granted entry into the United States for a number of reasons. One reason to be rejected was the likelihood of becoming a ward of the state and a public charge.


JWK




Our civil rights ought not be based upon the perverted desires of sexual deviants who now impinge upon the inalienable right of mankind being free to mutually agree in their contracts and associations.



And, just for the record, socialist minister Francis J. Bellamy wrote the Pledge of Allegiance in the 1890s in an effort to paper over the post-Civil War divisions; to accompany it, he devised the "Bellamy Salute": "raise your right hand, flip your palm down, point it toward the flag in a salute and recite the words."

Fifty years later, Americans switched to holding their hands over their hearts, a gesture that was formally legislated in the US Flag Code in 1942, as Americans were struck with the hipster's horror of having their OG style ripped off by crass newcomers (Hitler, Mussolini, et al).

[H_H]

Your talking of a state problem & one that was about the financial recession & people not being paid after the Revolution, that caused Shay's Rebellion. This has nothing to do with Federal Gov taxes.
Well great. Just to be clear:

You are claiming the American Revolution was a case of a revolution which decreased government.

[You are also claiming the War of Yankee Aggression was such a case, but by this you (presumably; filling in lots of gaps here) are leaving the realm of the historical, in which the 'revolution' (I'd contest this categorization) failed, and the result was significantly more government. I will grant you that in Turtledove novels, the WoYA may have resulted in less government, depending on the novel.]

This claim of yours for the Am Rev appears to amount to: "On paper, things seem to me as if they were super-ideal, quasi-anarchist for a couple years, until the revolutionaries got around to setting up a real government, at which point I will agree with you, Helmuth: they were even worse and more tyrannical than the British had been." Is that about it? And furthermore, you concede that this very brief moment of on-paper awesomeness only even applied to one particular division/level of the government. And that all the rest of the government were just as trash as ever, probably more-so actually, compared to before the Revolution.

OK, so that's a position. And I guess it makes sense. In a way. But can you see how weak that is? Let's say you were talking about some other revolution:

"The Ultra-Vedic Revolution of India shrunk the government. Now it's true real overall tax rates rose. It's true the overall number of government officials skyrocketed. However the Posits of Foundation clearly state that the Krishnic branch of government shall only collect tax via the Shivic limbs and never ever from the people directly, we promise. And it was only the Shiva limbs and also the Ganesh twigs of the government that got bigger and more intrusive, not the Krishnic branch. And yes, the Krishnic branch it too became horrible and tyrannical almost immediately, but that was after the Posits of Foundation were replaced by the Bloodtruce of Deva, which was totally different and not True vedism -- it was actually the opposite and a betrayal of the Vedic way!"

'Twould seem a bit... esoteric and technical, a bit like special pleading, yes? The bottom line is : Freer, yea or nay?

[H_H]

Also, great, Ender, on the Pledge!

Thing is, if you're edgy enough to reject The Pledge of Allegiance, surely you can imagine how someone might be edgy enough to reject some lame Non-American lesbian's transparently self-serving, drug-addled screed that somehow sneaked on (years later) to the Statue of Liberty. Eh?

Or can you truly not imagine anyone edgier than yourself?

Have some imagination!

[Ender]

[FONT=Verdana]
Well great. Just to be clear:

You are claiming the American Revolution was a case of a revolution which decreased government.



It did- for about 6-8 years- until TPTB got upset and formed the CONstitution.

The CONstitution was specifically for increased power to a central gov. and it worked perfectly.

[Swordsmyth]

It did- for about 6-8 years- until TPTB got upset and formed the CONstitution.

The CONstitution was specifically for increased power to a central gov. and it worked perfectly.

The joke was on them however, the Anti-Federalists managed to include the Bill of Rights and other protections that slowed down the pace of decay so that in time America became the least fouled up country in the world as everyone else went totally off the cliff.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

lol no, the biggest authoritarians are already here,...


Says the guy who is paid to promote division.

[TheCount]

Says the guy who is paid to promote division.


Everyone I disagree with is a paid shill!

-NorthCarolinaLiberty, probably

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Everyone I disagree with is a paid shill!




LOL No, just you and a handful of your comrades. Nice try, chief!

(edit): By the way, I just got a PM and a thank you from a real RPF member. That RPF member was at odds with one of the paid shills on here. I pointed out the paid shill to the RPF member (in a + rep). The RPF member was glad to learn he was replying to a known shill.

[Influenza]

LOL No, just you and a handful of your comrades. Nice try, chief!

(edit): By the way, I just got a PM and a thank you from a real RPF member. That RPF member was at odds with one of the paid shills on here. I pointed out the paid shill to the RPF member (in a + rep). The RPF member was glad to learn he was replying to a known shill.
OMG that means you must be right!! Someone sent a thank-you note!!! I've gotten private messages from people calling you and swordsmyth complete idiots. Whose private messages should we trust?

[TheCount]

(edit): By the way, I just got a PM and a thank you from a real RPF member. That RPF member was at odds with one of the paid shills on here. I pointed out the paid shill to the RPF member (in a + rep). The RPF member was glad to learn he was replying to a known shill.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msDcShv_r20

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I've gotten private messages from people calling you and swordsmyth complete idiots.



Sorry, guy with no friends. Getting PMs from fellow Bernie Sanders voters does not count! Ooops!







[The Money Po$ter]



THAT's all you got, especially after saying *I* am prolly the paid one?! A disappointed Open Society Foundation (https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/) say: NO RAISE FOR YOU!





`

[Influenza]

Sorry, guy with no friends. Getting PMs from fellow Bernie Sanders voters does not count! Ooops!









THAT's all you got, especially after saying *I* am prolly the paid one?! A disappointed Open Society Foundation (https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/) say: NO RAISE FOR YOU!





`
aww that's so cute, you actually think voting matters

[Anti Globalist]

I never thought I'd see the day where Democrats would be open to getting rid of a government agency.

[TheCount]

I never thought I'd see the day where Democrats would be open to getting rid of a government agency.
Both parties are open to those sorts of ideas when they're out of power.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

aww that's so cute, you actually think voting matters


I can't believe you get paid to post replies like this. Where do I sign up?

[H_H]

It did- for about 6-8 years- until TPTB got upset and formed the CONstitution.

The CONstitution was specifically for increased power to a central gov. and it worked perfectly.

OK, so to recap:

The best and in fact ONLY example being trotted out as a time when:

1. A revolution occurred
2. It resulted in less government

is (as anyone could have predicted) the AmRev, and its great Calayam to Fayam is that it caused a decreased government... at one particular level... in some senses... for, quote, "6-8 years". That's the upside. Yeah.

"The good news is that with everything added up and tabulated, in net it only set us back forty-two dollars!... a month... for the rest of our lives."

The downside was that it caused a massive increase in government overall, both during the revolution (obviously) and also even in this idyllic few years before the ArtsCon fell apart. Government overall, including state and local level, went way up. The government just became a massive pain in the neck intruding on the average person's life on every side, whereas in the previous hundred years it had not.

So...... ringing endorsement for revolutions!

All hail revolutions! Let's order some more right away!