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TheCount
06-25-2018, 06:59 AM
Harley-Davidson, the American motorcycle manufacturer, said on Monday that it was shifting some of the production of its bikes outside the United States to avoid European Union tariffs imposed as part of a widening trade dispute.

The announcement, made in a public filing (http://investor.harley-davidson.com/node/17401/html), is an early sign of the financial cost to companies on both sides of the Atlantic as the United States and Europe impose tariffs and counter-tariffs on each other. The moves have raised the specter of a full-blown trade war as the Trump administration pursues a protectionist tack with both allies, including the European Union, Canada and Mexico, and rivals, like China.

Last week, the European Unionimposed penalties (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/21/business/economy/europe-tariffs-trump-trade.html) on $3.2 billion worth of American products, many of which are produced in areas that form the heart of President Trumps political base, in response to steel and aluminum tariffs added by the White House. The list included bourbon from Kentucky, the home state of the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell; as well as orange juice, which is made largely in the swing state of Florida; and motorcycles made by Harley-Davidson, headquartered in Wisconsin, the home state of the House speaker, Paul D. Ryan.

Harley-Davidson said on Monday that European Union tariffs on its motorcycles had increased to 31 percent, from 6 percent. It estimated that the higher tariffs would add about $2,200 on average to every motorcycle exported from the United States to the bloc, so it said it would move the production of bikes bound for Europe outside the United States.

https://nyti.ms/2KiwXUa

brushfire
06-25-2018, 09:39 AM
They've been wanting to do this for years.

aGameOfThrones
06-25-2018, 09:50 AM
The tariffs are an excuse, they are slowly dying.

Zippyjuan
06-25-2018, 03:08 PM
40% of their business is exports. https://www.statista.com/statistics/252220/worldwide-motorcycle-retail-sales-of-harley-davidson/

https://wtop.com/business-finance/2018/01/harley-davidson-shutting-down-plant-amid-shipment-decline/


Harley shutting down Missouri plant amid sales decline

NEW YORK (AP) Harley-Davidson Inc. will close its Kansas City, Missouri, plant as part of a cost-cutting move as it sells fewer of it iconic motorcycles.

The Milwaukee-based company reported a 7.9 percent drop to 241,498 motorcycle shipments in 2017 and expects the figure to continue dropping. It forecast 231,000 to 236,000 motorcycle shipments in 2018.

The decision to consolidate our final assembly plants was made after very careful consideration of our manufacturing footprint and the appropriate capacity given the current business environment, said President and CEO Matt Levatich.

U.S. motorcycle sales peaked at more than 1.1 million in 2005 but then plummeted during the recession. Theyve had trouble coming out of that trough because of demographic shifts. As baby boomers stop riding, there arent enough millennials taking up the slack, analysts say.

Specifically, Harley-Davidson said it is consolidating the Kansas City assembly plant into its York, Pennsylvania, facility. The move will mean 800 layoffs at the Kansas City facility, beginning midyear, and it will close by the third quarter of 2019.

The company said it will add up to 450 new positions at the York facility.

It expects to book restructuring and other costs of $170 million to $200 million and capital investment costs of about $75 million over two years. The move is expected to lead to ongoing annual savings of $65 million to $75 million after 2020.

The motorcycle maker reported an 82 percent slide in fourth-quarter profit to $8.3 million, or 5 cents per share, partly on charge related to the new tax code. Earnings, adjusted for pretax expenses and non-recurring costs, were 54 cents per share.

Revenue rose 12 percent to $1.05 billion, mainly on pricing as retail sales of motorcycles fell 9.6 percent worldwide.



More at link. That was from January.

Anti Federalist
06-25-2018, 10:08 PM
LOL at this.

The only reason there is a Harley Davidson is because of tariffs imposed by Reagan in the 80s.

Madison320
06-26-2018, 08:14 AM
LOL at this.

The only reason there is a Harley Davidson is because of tariffs imposed by Reagan in the 80s.

I was thinking the same thing. That's the problem with selective tariffs.

brushfire
06-26-2018, 08:57 AM
They've been wanting to do this for years.




By Matthew RoccoPublished May 23, 2017AutoFOXBusiness

Harley-Davidson (NYSE:HOG) is building a new plant in Thailand, reflecting the industry€™s push for global sales growth.


The iconic American motorcycle maker was part of President Donald Trump€™s focus on U.S. manufacturing in the early days of his administration. Executives visited the White House in February to meet with Trump, who thanked Harley-Davidson €œfor building things in America.€ But even Harley-Davidson had a manufacturing footprint overseas, and the Milwaukee-based company says the facility in Thailand will improve its ability to serve markets where demand is on the rise.


Harley-Davidson said the move will not impact its U.S. factories.


In Thailand, Harley-Davidson expects to begin building motorcycles in late 2018. The plant is known as a complete knock down facility, an assembly plant where Harley-Davidson will put together bikes using parts shipped from its U.S. factories or suppliers.


Harleys made in Thailand will support sales in China and southeastern Asia, as the manufacturer works toward its goal of growing its international business to half of annual sales by 2027.


€œAsia Pacific is a growth market for Harley-Davidson because of its expanding economy, growing middle class, positive consumer spending trends and increasing market demand for larger motorcycle sales,€ a Harley-Davidson spokesperson said.


Although it exports completed bikes from the U.S., Harley-Davidson notes that some markets have high tariffs that put its motorcycles out of reach for most customers. Thailand has a 60% tax on imported bikes, a tax that would not apply to Harleys assembled for delivery inside the country€™s borders. Executives have said they want to encourage more people around the world to become riders, noting that domestic sales have softened.


Read: Harley-Davidson CEO talks Trump meeting, tax reform


€œBy building this assembly plant, we will be closer to these consumers and can be more responsive and competitive in this very important region to enable overall company growth,€ the spokesperson added. €œThere is no intent to reduce our U.S. manufacturing due to this expansion. Our U.S. manufacturing will continue to supply the U. S. and certain other global markets.€


Harley-Davidson has five factories in Wisconsin, Missouri and Pennsylvania, in addition to assembly plants in India and Brazil that also rely on American-made parts. The facility in India, which levies a 100% tax on imported motorcycles, opened in 2011.


The United Steelworkers Union, which represents workers at the Wisconsin and Missouri plants, called on Harley-Davidson to call off its plans to build in Thailand.


€œThis decision puts in jeopardy one of the few remaining genuine U.S. brands,€ the union said in a statement.


The New York Times was first to report Harley-Davidson€™s plans in Thailand.




I'll not spend much time digging it up, but they were also trying to do the same ~2001, and possibly even before then.

The funny thing about the HD brand is that it was built on "American Iron", and a disregard for efficiency and the technological. Buell was the technological innovator, and they took a steaming crap on that brand, while locking it all up. HD is simply blinded by greed, and too full of themselves to recognize their market, and its humble niche. They deserve whats coming to them.

donnay
06-26-2018, 09:38 AM
1011584315040419840

dannno
06-26-2018, 10:40 AM
1011584315040419840

If this guy wasn't the President, I would say this guy should be President.

Zippyjuan
06-26-2018, 11:48 AM
1011584315040419840

"Jobs protector" and "free market" Trump says a business should be taxed out of existence. Nice.

acptulsa
06-26-2018, 11:55 AM
If this guy wasn't the President, I would say this guy should be President.

Why? Because he behaved exactly the same way TheCount did?

Seriously. TheCount typed or pasted a misleading headline which falsely implies that H-D intends to offshore, when they've expressed zero interest in abandoning Milwaukee. Trump typed a misleading tweet which falsely implies the same thing. And both of them did it, presumably, to push people's buttons.

So, that guy should be president because you like being misled and having your buttons pushed? Well then. Time to jump on the bandwagon. TheCount for President 2024!


I'll not spend much time digging it up, but they were also trying to do the same ~2001, and possibly even before then.

The funny thing about the HD brand is that it was built on "American Iron", and a disregard for efficiency and the technological. Buell was the technological innovator, and they took a steaming crap on that brand, while locking it all up. HD is simply blinded by greed, and too full of themselves to recognize their market, and its humble niche. They deserve whats coming to them.

They don't recognize their market? I assure you they're not selling a quarter million units a year because they don't recognize their market. Maybe you don't recognize their market.

Perhaps you think they are in the motorcycle market. The way I see it, there are three aspects to the motorcycle market. There are those who want a vehicle which is both quick and fast. There are those who want a vehicle which is cheaper than a car and goes at least seventy miles on a gallon. And there are those who simply want something reliable and affordable which allows them to tool around in the open air. Clearly Harley Davidsons are none of these things.

So, are they even in the business of making motorcycles? Or are they in the business of making pussy magnets? After all, the things are distinctive, iconic, overdecorated and overpriced enough to be status symbols. And their long-stroke, odd-fire V-twins are terrible engines, but outstanding vibrators. That's why you have to re-tighten all the bolts every month. And that's why women are always wet when they dismount. They are big, expensive vibrators.

Now then. Why would they need to understand the motorcycle market when they're in the vibrator market?

Brian4Liberty
06-26-2018, 12:20 PM
The list included bourbon from Kentucky, the home state of the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell; as well as orange juice, which is made largely in the swing state of Florida; and motorcycles made by Harley-Davidson, headquartered in Wisconsin, the home state of the House speaker, Paul D. Ryan.

All of this faux outrage about Russia meddling in US politics. Seems to me that these tarrifs by the EU are not only targeting specific companies, they are targeting specific politicians. Sounds like meddling in internal politics to me. Where is Adam Schiff when we need him?

Brian4Liberty
06-26-2018, 12:25 PM
Probably wouldn't hurt Harley to do a little final assembly in nations where they have a lot of customers. But will they go to China and give away all of their trade secrets and designs? They are jumping the gun a bit with this announcement though. They should wait and see how it all falls out before spending (shareholder?) money on changes they may not need in the long run.

Brian4Liberty
06-26-2018, 12:31 PM
Thailand has a 60% tax on imported bikes

Is this good for the citizens of Thailand? Can we assume this does not include bicycles, or is it higher or lower on them?

Zippyjuan
06-26-2018, 12:39 PM
Not a comprehensive list but: https://www.export.gov/article?id=Thailand-Import-Tariffs


Thailand - Import TariffsIncludes information on average tariff rates and types that U.S. firms should be aware of when exporting to the market.
Last Published: 7/18/2017
Thailand’s average applied Most Favored Nation (MFN) tariff rate was 10.7 percent ad valorem in 2014. About one-third of Thailand’s MFN tariff schedule involves duties of less than 5 percent, and almost 30 percent of tariff lines are MFN duty free, including for products such as chemicals, electronics, industrial machinery, and paper. Thailand has bound all tariffs on agricultural products in the WTO, but only around 70 percent of its tariff lines on industrial products.

Thailand has bound its agricultural tariffs at an average of 39.9 percent ad valorem, compared with its average applied MFN tariff on agricultural products of 22 percent. MFN duties on imported processed food products typically range from 30 percent to 50 percent, which limits the ability of U.S. exporters of such products to compete in the Thai market. Tariffs on meats, fresh fruits (including citrus fruit and table grapes) and vegetables, fresh cheese, and pulses (e.g., dry peas, lentils, and chickpeas) are similarly high.

Thailand’s average bound tariff for non-agricultural products is approximately 25.5 percent. Thailand imposes high tariffs in some sectors such as: import tariffs of 80 percent on motor vehicles, 60 percent on motorcycles and certain clothing products, 54 percent to 60 percent on distilled spirits, and 30 percent on certain articles of plastic and restaurant equipment. Thailand charges tariffs of 10 percent to 30 percent on certain audiovisual products. Thailand applies a 10 percent tariff on most pharmaceutical products, including almost all products on the World Health Organization list of essential medicines.

Thailand maintains the same list of tariff-rate-quota (TRQ) from its commitments under WTO agreement on agriculture since 2004. Thailand imposes domestic purchase requirements for several tariff-rate quota products, including nonfat dry milk, soybeans, soybean meal, and fresh potatoes.

In general lists, I don't see bicycles but tariff lists can be long. Even within a category, specific items may be taxed and others not- the US for example has tariffs on certain types of shirts while other types of shirts are exempt.

oyarde
06-26-2018, 12:48 PM
Why? Because he behaved exactly the same way TheCount did?

Seriously. TheCount typed or pasted a misleading headline which falsely implies that H-D intends to offshore, when they've expressed zero interest in abandoning Milwaukee. Trump typed a misleading tweet which falsely implies the same thing. And both of them did it, presumably, to push people's buttons.

So, that guy should be president because you like being misled and having your buttons pushed? Well then. Time to jump on the bandwagon. TheCount for President 2024!



They don't recognize their market? I assure you they're not selling a quarter million units a year because they don't recognize their market. Maybe you don't recognize their market.

Perhaps you think they are in the motorcycle market. The way I see it, there are three aspects to the motorcycle market. There are those who want a vehicle which is both quick and fast. There are those who want a vehicle which is cheaper than a car and goes at least seventy miles on a gallon. And there are those who simply want something reliable and affordable which allows them to tool around in the open air. Clearly Harley Davidsons are none of these things.

So, are they even in the business of making motorcycles? Or are they in the business of making pussy magnets? After all, the things are distinctive, iconic, overdecorated and overpriced enough to be status symbols. And their long-stroke, odd-fire V-twins are terrible engines, but outstanding vibrators. That's why you have to re-tighten all the bolts every month. And that's why women are always wet when they dismount. They are big, expensive vibrators.

Now then. Why would they need to understand the motorcycle market when they're in the vibrator market?

I always thought the business model was make a few motor cycles and then make the real money off over priced accessories that people stand in line to buy . I have been pretty impressed with it .

Swordsmyth
06-27-2018, 06:55 PM
In what could be spun as a PR victory for President Trump as he browbeats iconic motorcycle brand Harley Davidson into beefing up its US manufacturing presence, a spokesperson for the company reiterated its intention to ensure that all of its hogs sold in the US will be manufactured here.
Case in point: a company spokesperson said Wednesday that Harley-Davidson remains committed to American manufacturing and selling only US-made motorcycles in the US - which is where Harley sells the bulk of its motorcycles - the Wall Street Journal (https://www.wsj.com/articles/harley-davidson-defends-plans-to-make-hogs-abroad-1530122440?mod=hp_lista_pos3) reported.

More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-27/harley-davidson-says-it-committed-selling-domestic-made-bikes-us

Zippyjuan
06-27-2018, 07:22 PM
In what could be spun as a PR victory for President Trump as he browbeats iconic motorcycle brand Harley Davidson into beefing up its US manufacturing presence, a spokesperson for the company reiterated its intention to ensure that all of its hogs sold in the US will be manufactured here.
Case in point: a company spokesperson said Wednesday that Harley-Davidson remains committed to American manufacturing and selling only US-made motorcycles in the US - which is where Harley sells the bulk of its motorcycles - the Wall Street Journal (https://www.wsj.com/articles/harley-davidson-defends-plans-to-make-hogs-abroad-1530122440?mod=hp_lista_pos3) reported.

More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-27/harley-davidson-says-it-committed-selling-domestic-made-bikes-us

The new factory overseas will replace motorcycles they were making in the US and shipping over there so they will still lose jobs here.


Despite Trump’s assertion that “trade wars are good, and easy to win,” however, Harley isn’t so impressed. It confirmed today that, as a result of the tariff squeeze, it will now move a decent-sized chunk of production outside of the US.


For the US, Harley-Davidson production isn’t changing: the motorcycles sold in the country will still be made here. However, earlier plans will continue to shutter a plant in Missouri and bring the facilities there to another existing plant in Pennsylvania. There’s no word on whether further closures will be required as some production is moved abroad.


European sales of Harley-Davidson motorcycles, the company pointed out, amounted to nearly 40,000 bikes in 2017. That makes the market second to the US. With the EU tariffs applied, the average cost of a bike faces an increase of around $2,200, it’s calculated.

Swordsmyth
06-27-2018, 07:26 PM
The new factory overseas will replace motorcycles they were making in the US and shipping over there so they will still lose jobs here.

They were going to send them overseas anyway, they were going to send ALL production overseas anyway, now they aren't.

Zippyjuan
06-27-2018, 08:32 PM
They were going to send them overseas anyway, they were going to send ALL production overseas anyway, now they aren't.

No, they weren't going to move all production overseas.