We need to start a movement to Expel certain states from the union by Constitutional Amendment

[Swordsmyth]

I am totally serious, Rand or one of our other office holders needs to start pushing a Constitutional Amendment to expel several states.
It won't be easy but it needs doing if the Republic is to be saved.

If we get this going we can make a list here.
States nominated should be entirely dominated by the Demoncrats and in flagrant violation of their citizens Constitutional Rights like the 2ndA.

[Swordsmyth]

I'll start the nominations with New Jersey and Massachusetts.

[VIDEODROME]

Throw out Michigan.

[RonZeplin]

Massachusetts, Connecticut, RI, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, and DC. Give it back to the British, or the Indians if they want it. We could give the Indians weapons like we give to Saudi Arabia & Israel.

Regime Change!

[FvS]

Give Blacks 2-3 Southern states to form their own country and send all Central Americans back to Central America. Democrats would probably never win again.

https://i.imgur.com/DsBMPB6.jpg

[Swordsmyth]

Give Blacks 2-3 Southern states to form their own country and send all Central Americans back to Central America. Democrats would probably never win again.

https://i.imgur.com/DsBMPB6.jpg

That would be harder to do because they aren't concentrated in just one or two states where they are an overwhelming majority.
Getting rid of multiple solid blue states will be good enough.

[timosman]

Give Blacks 2-3 Southern states to form their own country and send all Central Americans back to Central America. Democrats would probably never win again.

https://i.imgur.com/DsBMPB6.jpg

Asians worse than Other? WTF! Are they still traumatized from WWII?

[FvS]

That would be harder to do because they aren't concentrated in just one or two states where they are an overwhelming majority. Getting rid of multiple solid blue states will be good enough.

That's true. I suppose California would be an obvious choice.


Asians worse than Other? WTF! Are they still traumatized from WWII?

Many non-Whites seem to prefer collectivism and socialism, for whatever reason.

[The Rebel Poet]

I am totally serious, Rand or one of our other office holders needs to start pushing a Constitutional Amendment to expel several states.
It won't be easy but it needs doing if the Republic is to be saved.

If we get this going we can make a list here.
States nominated should be entirely dominated by the Demoncrats and in flagrant violation of their citizens Constitutional Rights like the 2ndA.

This is a good idea, but pitched this way it's a nonstarter. Even if you wanted to do it against their wishes, you'd have to get a majority in the remaining states to agree. Even excluding liberals and centrists, most conservatives don't hate California so bad that they think Californians should be stripped of citizenship. Instead of telling states they're being forced to leave, tell them they are being allowed to leave.

This needs to be about self government. Tell Californians (or whoever) that since we can't all agree on how to run the government, we should peacably allow each other to try different forms of government.

[Swordsmyth]

This is a good idea, but pitched this way it's a nonstarter. Even if you wanted to do it against their wishes, you'd have to get a majority in the remaining states to agree. Even excluding liberals and centrists, most conservatives don't hate California so bad that they think Californians should be stripped of citizenship. Instead of telling states they're being forced to leave, tell them they are being allowed to leave.

This needs to be about self government. Tell Californians (or whoever) that since we can't all agree on how to run the government, we should peacably allow each other to try different forms of government.

It should be pitched both ways.

[Anti Federalist]

This needs to be about self government. Tell Californians (or whoever) that since we can't all agree on how to run the government, we should peacably allow each other to try different forms of government.

Exactly right.

[Ender]

This is a good idea, but pitched this way it's a nonstarter. Even if you wanted to do it against their wishes, you'd have to get a majority in the remaining states to agree. Even excluding liberals and centrists, most conservatives don't hate California so bad that they think Californians should be stripped of citizenship. Instead of telling states they're being forced to leave, tell them they are being allowed to leave.

This needs to be about self government. Tell Californians (or whoever) that since we can't all agree on how to run the government, we should peacably allow each other to try different forms of government.

How about we go back to the original Federation of States?

The original "Union" of the states was that every State was separate and could run itself whatever way it wanted, by the local community. The CONstitution started the path toward a controlling Central Gov that would rule as it pleased.

The "Civil" War cemented that.

What we have now is a phony left/right sealed by an elite central gov that rules everything while letting the fooled think they have a choice.

[shakey1]

Wouldn't be easy to be sure.

[Swordsmyth]

How about we go back to the original Federation of States?

The original "Union" of the states was that every State was separate and could run itself whatever way it wanted, by the local community. The CONstitution started the path toward a controlling Central Gov that would rule as it pleased.

The "Civil" War cemented that.

What we have now is a phony left/right sealed by an elite central gov that rules everything while letting the fooled think they have a choice.

They don't want that, they must be expelled if we are ever to go back to that.

[osan]

I am totally serious, Rand or one of our other office holders needs to start pushing a Constitutional Amendment to expel several states.
It won't be easy but it needs doing if the Republic is to be saved.

If we get this going we can make a list here.
States nominated should be entirely dominated by the Demoncrats and in flagrant violation of their citizens Constitutional Rights like the 2ndA.

The Black States list:



Massachussetts
Connecticut
Rhode Island
New York
New Jersey
Maryland
Illinois
Minnesota
California
Oregon
Washington
Ohio
Hawaii

[Swordsmyth]

The Black States list:



Massachussetts
Connecticut
Rhode Island
New York
New Jersey
Maryland
Illinois
Minnesota
California
Oregon
Washington
Ohio
Hawaii



A very good list, I would suggest that only the worst be targeted for expulsion while the others be allowed a chance to either reform or secede.

[Ender]

They don't want that, they must be expelled if we are ever to go back to that.

Expelled..... so more laws for bigger government is your freedom solution.

The present gov SUCKS. It is totally anti-liberty- yet you promote expelling states YOU think exude that very thing so you can be comfy in your own personal authoritarian cradle.

Start your own country- then do what ever you want. Betcha true liberty will be nowhere in sight.

[brushfire]

I would be satisfied with just the option to opt out. Let all the loser states keep their union.

To me, the failure of the federal government is not due to CA, NY, IL, etc... Its the consolidated power that's the issue.

[Swordsmyth]

Expelled..... so more laws for bigger government is your freedom solution.

The present gov SUCKS. It is totally anti-liberty- yet you promote expelling states YOU think exude that very thing so you can be comfy in your own personal authoritarian cradle.

Start your own country- then do what ever you want. Betcha true liberty will be nowhere in sight.

It isn't more laws, it is enforcing the Constitution while allowing them the freedom to have the horrible governments of their choice.
Would you rather use force to overthrow their elected governments?
Or perhaps you are happy with things just the way they are, with them slowly strangling liberty in the whole country?
Your sheep's clothing is slipping.

[Ender]

It isn't more laws, it is enforcing the Constitution while allowing them the freedom to have the horrible governments of their choice.
Would you rather use force to overthrow their elected governments?
Or perhaps you are happy with things just the way they are, with them slowly strangling liberty in the whole country?
Your sheep's clothing is slipping.

LOL

I'd say your hate-mongering is continually driving your posts- divide and conquer is your meme.

Ron Paul's solutions are the best I've seen but haters don't want that.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?523643-Crowley-s-Shocking-Loss!-Is-Socialism-On-The-March&p=6645767#post6645767

[Swordsmyth]

LOL

I'd say your hate-mongering is continually driving your posts- divide and conquer is your meme.

Ron Paul's solutions are the best I've seen but haters don't want that.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?523643-Crowley-s-Shocking-Loss!-Is-Socialism-On-The-March&p=6645767#post6645767

You can't love liberty without hating tyranny, it is an exercise in charity and mercy to expel them instead of exterminating them.
They are destroying us and stealing our liberty, continued coexistence is only possible if we submit.

[Ender]

You can't love liberty without hating tyranny, it is an exercise in charity and mercy to expel them instead of exterminating them.
They are destroying us and stealing our liberty, continued coexistence is only possible if we submit.

Expelling the states you think are causing a problem in the dictatorship you are already in, will NOT solve the problem of the dictatorship. The "Civil" War solved that problem for you- your state no rights in "leaving" and neither does any other state.

And how many of those states have you actually been in?

[Swordsmyth]

Expelling the states you think are causing a problem in the dictatorship you are already in, will NOT solve the problem of the dictatorship. The "Civil" War solved that problem for you- your state no rights in "leaving" and neither does any other state.

And how many of those states have you actually been in?
Those states are the ones keeping it a dictatorship and expelling several will set the precedent that the union is not indivisible as well as stop their tyrannical schemes against the rest of us.

The civil war didn't change the states's right to leave Yankee.

Just what advantage is there in letting them stay?

You just want them to win so you want to keep them as a millstone around our necks.

[Ender]

Those states are the ones keeping it a dictatorship and expelling several will set the precedent that the union is not indivisible as well as stop their tyrannical schemes against the rest of us.

The civil war didn't change the states's right to leave Yankee.

Just what advantage is there in letting them stay?

You just want them to win so you want to keep them as a millstone around our necks.

Do you not know ANYTHING about history? The War Between the States change the united States of America into the United States of America, a corporation. NO state has legal authority to leave the so-called union.

And I'd say all your venom & hate is the milestone YOU are pushing. Hopefully you're soon fired for your trolling.

[Swordsmyth]

Do you not know ANYTHING about history? The War Between the States change the united States of America into the United States of America, a corporation. NO state has legal authority to leave the so-called union.
That is what Yankees like you claimed at the point of a gun, rights can't be changed that way.

They began the hate, hate for the Constitution and those of us who love it, I temper my counter-hate with mercy and charity and do not call for their extermination.

All we want is to be left alone.

What makes you oppose their expulsion?
They would be free to do as they desire and so would we.
Obviously you want them to finish conquering the rest of us and this is an idea that could bring your Jesuit masters' evil plans to a halt.

[osan]

It isn't more laws, it is enforcing the Constitution while allowing them the freedom to have the horrible governments of their choice.
Would you rather use force to overthrow their elected governments?
Or perhaps you are happy with things just the way they are, with them slowly strangling liberty in the whole country?
Your sheep's clothing is slipping.


This ancient back and forth to which men make application of their argumentative faculty - federal merit v. that of local government - makes plain the louse that is the lie of all government; of any government whatsoever. But that veil upon the mind only diverts the eye from a deeper truth that tells us it is men and only men that render vile the conditions of their self-befouled lives; for at the end of it all that blind is naught but that - the gossamer lie that a corrupted humanity accepts as real and authoritative such that they bend themselves to it no matter how debased and bankrupted the result that drives them into contemptuous ruin and misery, bringing forth the fruits of desolation upon their liberty.

[Ender]

That is what Yankees like you claimed at the point of a gun, rights can't be changed that way.

They began the hate, hate for the Constitution and those of us who love it, I temper my counter-hate with mercy and charity and do not call for their extermination.

All we want is to be left alone.

What makes you oppose their expulsion?
They would be free to do as they desire and so would we.
Obviously you want them to finish conquering the rest of us and this is an idea that could bring your Jesuit masters' evil plans to a halt.

No argument for your hate spew so it's name-calling & insult time, I see.

I'll just repeat this:

How about we go back to the original Federation of States?

The original "Union" of the states was that every State was separate and could run itself whatever way it wanted, by the local community. The CONstitution started the path toward a controlling Central Gov that would rule as it pleased.

The "Civil" War cemented that.

What we have now is a phony left/right sealed by an elite central gov that rules everything while letting the fooled think they have a choice.

[Swordsmyth]

No argument for your hate spew so it's name-calling & insult time, I see.

I'll just repeat this:

How about we go back to the original Federation of States?

The original "Union" of the states was that every State was separate and could run itself whatever way it wanted, by the local community. The CONstitution started the path toward a controlling Central Gov that would rule as it pleased.

The "Civil" War cemented that.

What we have now is a phony left/right sealed by an elite central gov that rules everything while letting the fooled think they have a choice.

And I'll just repeat this: It is the deep blue states that will never let that happen, we can only achieve that by expelling them first.


But you know that, that is why you oppose expelling them.

[Ender]

And I'll just repeat this: It is the deep blue states that will never let that happen, we can only achieve that by expelling them first.


But you know that, that is why you oppose expelling them.

Insults & innuendos- oh my!

[TheTexan]

Doing this would be the end of Rand's career.

Rand still has a bright future with many years left of being a senator.

Let's not ruin that by asking him to do something that might make a difference.

[TheTexan]

Maybe we can get Massie to do this. He's more expendable

[Leaning Libertarian]

I can appreciate the frustrations creating the call for such action; however, feel the suggested course misguided. Living in California, my state would certainly make the list. The realities of the problem is a combination of political ignorance on the part of the represented voting constituency, coupled with a healthy dose of political corruption. California's "motor voter" law comes to mind. First, regardless of citizenship status, individuals can obtain drivers licenses. Second, EVERYONE with a drivers license is automatically registered to vote, unless they choose to opt out. As far as California State Government's obvious decision to show distain and and disloyalty to the union, by ignoring any cooperation with our duly elected Presidential Administration and federal agencies, removing the state from the union is not the right answer in my opinion. Each state has resource, mass, and human capital that belongs to the United States. What desperately needs happen is consequences for these states. No state as of yet has received a consequence. If federal funding is withheld from these states, they will feel the consequence of their decisions. The Presidential Administration also has the option; moreover, is yet to use the option, of sending the National Guard to force state compliance. This precedence was set on June 11, 1963, when then President Kennedy sent the National Guard to force Alabama Governor Wallace to comply with federal anti segregation laws. Rather than "throwing out the baby with the dirty bath water," by forcing states to be separated from the Union, it would be wiser to force the states to feel an actual consequence. Liberty demands states be allowed to form their own state governance; however, they should never be free from the consequence of their intentional indifference to the United States.

[Swordsmyth]

I can appreciate the frustrations creating the call for such action; however, feel the suggested course misguided. Living in California, my state would certainly make the list. The realities of the problem is a combination of political ignorance on the part of the represented voting constituency, coupled with a healthy dose of political corruption. California's "motor voter" law comes to mind. First, regardless of citizenship status, individuals can obtain drivers licenses. Second, EVERYONE with a drivers license is automatically registered to vote, unless they choose to opt out. As far as California State Government's obvious decision to show distain and and disloyalty to the union, by ignoring any cooperation with our duly elected Presidential Administration and federal agencies, removing the state from the union is not the right answer in my opinion. Each state has resource, mass, and human capital that belongs to the United States. What desperately needs happen is consequences for these states. No state as of yet has received a consequence. If federal funding is withheld from these states, they will feel the consequence of their decisions. The Presidential Administration also has the option; moreover, is yet to use the option, of sending the National Guard to force state compliance. This precedence was set on June 11, 1963, when then President Kennedy sent the National Guard to force Alabama Governor Wallace to comply with federal anti segregation laws. Rather than "throwing out the baby with the dirty bath water," by forcing states to be separated from the Union, it would be wiser to force the states to feel an actual consequence. Liberty demands states be allowed to form their own state governance; however, they should never be free from the consequence of their intentional indifference to the United States.
I understand your position but the basic problem is the hordes of leftists who inhabit the worst states, so long as they continue to send Representatives and Senators to D.C. the steps you suggest will be blocked.

For what it is worth I would not include California in the expulsion, there are too many conservatives trapped there, I want to target states that are even more solidly leftist, once they have been expelled CALExit will happen because the left will despair of ever regaining power, then we can allow CALExit on the condition that the conservative leaning counties be left behind as the State of California.

[The Rebel Poet]

I can appreciate the frustrations creating the call for such action; however, feel the suggested course misguided. Living in California, my state would certainly make the list. The realities of the problem is a combination of political ignorance on the part of the represented voting constituency, coupled with a healthy dose of political corruption. California's "motor voter" law comes to mind. First, regardless of citizenship status, individuals can obtain drivers licenses. Second, EVERYONE with a drivers license is automatically registered to vote, unless they choose to opt out. As far as California State Government's obvious decision to show distain and and disloyalty to the union, by ignoring any cooperation with our duly elected Presidential Administration and federal agencies, removing the state from the union is not the right answer in my opinion. Each state has resource, mass, and human capital that belongs to the United States. What desperately needs happen is consequences for these states. No state as of yet has received a consequence. If federal funding is withheld from these states, they will feel the consequence of their decisions. The Presidential Administration also has the option; moreover, is yet to use the option, of sending the National Guard to force state compliance. This precedence was set on June 11, 1963, when then President Kennedy sent the National Guard to force Alabama Governor Wallace to comply with federal anti segregation laws. Rather than "throwing out the baby with the dirty bath water," by forcing states to be separated from the Union, it would be wiser to force the states to feel an actual consequence. Liberty demands states be allowed to form their own state governance; however, they should never be free from the consequence of their intentional indifference to the United States.

Please dear God tell me this is satire.

And for the record, the precident was set on April 14, 1861.

[Ender]

Please dear God tell me this is satire.

And for the record, the precident was set on April 14, 1861.

Ya think?

[Swordsmyth]

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/expel-new-york-state-union-gross-violation-right-life-and-many-other-gross-rights-violations

[Swordsmyth]

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/expel-new-york-state-union-gross-violation-right-life-and-many-other-gross-rights-violations
Please sign and spread.

[Zippyjuan]

Just need two thirds of the states to agree.

[Swordsmyth]

Just need two thirds of the states to agree.
And?

We might not need a Constitutional Amendment, by the way.

[Zippyjuan]

And?

We might not need a Constitutional Amendment, by the way.

No, but to remove a state you still need two thirds of the states to agree. In addition to a majority of the citizens of that state. Either way.

[Swordsmyth]

No, but to remove a state you still need two thirds of the states to agree. In addition to a majority of the citizens of that state. Either way.
Says who?

[PAF]

Please sign and spread.

I’d much rather “sign a petition” to End Common Core / FedDeptEd.

If trump does one single thing to MAGA, this be it. Otherwise it don’t matter immigrants or natural born.

[Swordsmyth]

I’d much rather “sign a petition” to End Common Core / FedDeptEd.

If trump does one single thing to MAGA, this be it. Otherwise it don’t matter immigrants or natural born.
You can't do both?

[PAF]

You can't do both?

I don’t see any mileage gained by that in today’s climate. I’ll ponder it, but education has to change first and foremost to rid the indoctrination camps. IMO it’s far more severe a problem than a few thousand immigrants coming in, these are innocent young minds nation-wide the government is totally wrecking and destroying.

[Swordsmyth]

I don’t see any mileage gained by that in today’s climate. I’ll ponder it, but education has to change first and foremost to rid the indoctrination camps. IMO it’s far more severe a problem than a few thousand immigrants coming in, these are innocent young minds nation-wide the government is totally wrecking and destroying.
Why are you talking about immigration?
The petition is to expel New York from the union for gross violations of Human and Constitutional rights.

[PAF]

Why are you talking about immigration?
The petition is to expel New York from the union for gross violations of Human and Constitutional rights.

Yes I understand. But the "crisis", because "they" are invading and taking over our way of life.

I think education is the way to go for ALL people, so that no matter what state one lives in, Rights can be protected by the Individual People, not some legislature who wrote random stuff down on a piece of paper.

I mean seriously, Swordsmyth, anybody who owns a home, business or restaurant knows that that is a gross mis-management of valuable paper, everybody knows it is supposed to be used as Toilet Paper.

For example, this is where I was, boots on the ground, a couple of weeks ago. I also used that time to talk to some folks about Natural Rights, the NAP and Free Market Principles (as opposed to "fair" market). I'm not sure if anybody captured me on video this time, I'll check around on youtube when I get the chance.


https://youtu.be/tDY36rHqLf4

[Swordsmyth]

Yes I understand. But the "crisis", because "they" are invading and taking over our way of life.

I think education is the way to go for ALL people, so that no matter what state one lives in, Rights can be protected by the Individual People, not some legislature who wrote random stuff down on a piece of paper.

I mean seriously, Swordsmyth, anybody who owns a home, business or restaurant knows that that is a gross mis-management of valuable paper, everybody knows it is supposed to be used as Toilet Paper.

For example, this is where I was, boots on the ground, a couple of weeks ago. I also used that time to talk to some folks about Natural Rights, the NAP and Free Market Principles (as opposed to "fair" market). I'm not sure if anybody captured me on video this time, I'll check around on youtube when I get the chance.


https://youtu.be/tDY36rHqLf4
Education is fine but while you are educating people who don't believe in liberty the rest of us need a place to live with people who believe in liberty, if you succeed that's great but if you fail there needs to be a place where people actually have liberty.

[PAF]

Education is fine but while you are educating people who don't believe in liberty the rest of us need a place to live with people who believe in liberty, if you succeed that's great but if you fail there needs to be a place where people actually have liberty.

Your way, you will eventually reduce liberty, and areas enough, so that one would be forced to live inside of a shoe-box, still screaming for government to save you, and have me pay for it.

Thanks, but no. I will continue my path. It is a long one, but every now and then, we are able to get another onboard.

In order to promote principles, one must stand by them. Don't you agree?

[Swordsmyth]

Your way, you will eventually reduce liberty, and areas enough, so that one would be forced to live inside of a shoe-box, still screaming for government to save you, and have me pay for it.

Thanks, but no. I will continue my path. It is a long one, but every now and then, we are able to get another onboard.

In order to promote principles, one must stand by them. Don't you agree?
Your way nobody will ever live in any liberty, you will never convert the whole world and unless you do there will never be any liberty for anyone.

I have principles and they say that we should create as much liberty as we can for as many people as we can and that means we have to have our own area where liberty actually exists.

[PAF]

Your way nobody will ever live in any liberty, you will never convert the whole world and unless you do there will never be any liberty for anyone.

I have principles and they say that we should create as much liberty as we can for as many people as we can and that means we have to have our own area where liberty actually exists.


Utopia does not exist.

There is conversation on another TDS forum that after trump builds his great wall, they want to urge him to build another wall along the US/Canada border, and then at the Atlantic/Pacific oceans to emulate Israel and their Gaza barrier.

No, I do not want to live in a shoe-box, even if it's sturdy.

[Swordsmyth]

Utopia does not exist.

There is conversation on another TDS forum that after trump builds his great wall, they want to urge him to build another wall along the US/Canada border, and then at the Atlantic/Pacific oceans to emulate Israel and their Gaza barrier.

No, I do not want to live in a shoe-box, even if it's sturdy.
Utopia doesn't exist but it is still possible to have your own territory with more liberty than the rest of the world, history is full of examples.

YOU are the one chasing Utopia, you want to achieve the impossible of converting the whole world and you want to condemn all of us to live with the lowest common denominator until you do.

[PAF]

Utopia doesn't exist but it is still possible to have your own territory with more liberty than the rest of the world, history is full of examples.

YOU are the one chasing Utopia, you want to achieve the impossible of converting the whole world and you want to condemn all of us to live with the lowest common denominator until you do.

Buy property, like I did. Put up a fence, like I did. Buy guns, like I did.

Instead of blowing money on 2 border walls, 2 Gaza barriers, more gasoline to find entry/exit points, more government military guards, more drones and police-state equipment -- save your money, invest in home/land improvements, and enjoy getting out in the world. There is so much beauty and adventure if you only look.

[Swordsmyth]

Buy property, like I did. Put up a fence, like I did. Buy guns, like I did.

Instead of blowing money on 2 border walls, 2 Gaza barriers, more gasoline to find entry/exit points, more government military guards, more drones and police-state equipment -- save your money, invest in home/land improvements, and enjoy getting out in the world. There is so much beauty and adventure if you only look.
The commies will come and take it all away from you, history and current conditions are full of examples, like it or not groups are necessary to secure liberty and group territory is necessary to secure liberty.

[Superfluous Man]

Best case scenario: all 50 states get expelled from the Union.

[oyarde]

Doing this would be the end of Rand's career.

Rand still has a bright future with many years left of being a senator.

Let's not ruin that by asking him to do something that might make a difference.

He could be Chief of Bowling Green

[Swordsmyth]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Swordsmyth http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=6740155#post6740155)


We might not need a Constitutional Amendment, by the way.




No, but to remove a state you still need two thirds of the states to agree. In addition to a majority of the citizens of that state. Either way.


Says who?
Still waiting for an answer zip...........................

[idiom]

If you guys haven't read Adjustment Day by Chuck Palahniuk, you are missing out. The West coast gets ejected along with every gay person from the USA. The South gets ejected with all the blacks. The Straight whites get the rest. Its from the dude who wrote Fight Club.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51IBkEfgRZL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg