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Anti Federalist
06-22-2018, 02:04 AM
The answer is, no.

The west has no stomach for what is needed to preserve its liberty from creeping tyranny, let alone the moral and physical courage to preserve its life.

Half a century of progressive rot has done irreversible damage.



HAS THE WEST THE WILL TO SURVIVE?

http://www.wnd.com/2018/06/has-the-west-the-will-to-survive/

Pat Buchanan blasts progressives who are loyal only to 'an ideological nation'

“If you’re … pathetically weak, the country is going to be overrun with millions of people, and if you’re strong, then you don’t have any heart, that’s a tough dilemma. … I’d rather be strong.”

So said President Donald Trump, on issuing his order halting the separation of children from parents caught breaking into the country. Trump’s enemies are celebrating a victory. Yet the issue remains.

Under U.S. law, teenagers and tots cannot be detained for more than 20 days and must be held in the least-restrictive facilities. But if the children cannot be separated from the parents as they await trial, both will have to be released to keep families together.

We are back to “catch and release.”

When that welcome news hits Central America, the migrant stream moving north will become a river that never ceases to flow.

The questions America and the West face might thus be framed:

Is there a liberal, progressive, Christian way to seal a 2,000-mile border, halt millions of migrants from crossing it illegally and send intruders back whence they came? Or does the preservation of Western nations and peoples require measures from which liberal societies today reflexively recoil?

Does the survival of the West as a civilization require a ruthlessness the West no longer possess?

Consider what our fathers did to build this country.

The English settlers brought in 600,000 slaves, ethnically cleansed the Indians, joined their cousins in a war to expel the French, then revolted and threw out those cousins to claim all the land to the Mississippi for ourselves.

Jefferson grabbed the vast Louisiana Territory for $15 million from Napoleon, who had no right to sell it. Andrew Jackson drove the Spanish out of Florida, sent the Cherokee packing on the Trail of Tears, and told a dissenting Chief Justice John Marshall where he could go.

Sam Houston tore Texas away from Mexico. “Jimmy” Polk took the Southwest and California in a war Ulysses Grant called “the most unjust ever fought.” When the South declared independence, Lincoln sent a million-man army to march them back in a war that cost 600,000 lives.

William McKinley sent armies and warships to seize Puerto Rico, Hawaii, Guam and the Philippines. The indigenous peoples were not consulted. “God told me to take the Philippines,” said McKinley.

The conquest and colonization of the New World and the creation of the United States and its rise to world power required acts of aggression and war of which many among our elites are ashamed. They exhibit their guilt by tearing down the statues of the men who perpetrated the “crimes” that created America. But of these elites, it may be fairly said: They could never have built a nation like ours.

Which brings us again to the larger questions.

While our forefathers would not have hesitated to do what was needed to secure our borders and expel intruders, it is not a settled matter as to whether this generation has the will to preserve the West.

Progressives may parade their moral superiority as they cheer the defeat of the “zero tolerance” policy. But they have no solution to the crisis. Indeed, many do not even see it as a crisis because they do not see themselves as belonging to a separate tribe, nation or people threatened by an epochal invasion from the Third World.

They see themselves as belonging to an ideological nation, a nation of ideas, whose mission is to go forth and preach and teach all peoples the gospel of democracy, diversity and equality.

And this is why the establishment was repudiated in 2016. It was perceived as too elite, too liberal, too weak to secure the borders and repel the invaders.

“If you’re really, really pathetically weak, the country is going to be overrun with millions of people,” said Trump Wednesday. Is he wrong?

Since the Cold War ended with the collapse of the Soviet Union, it has grown apparent that the existential threat to the West comes not from Czar Vladimir’s Russian divisions returning to the Elbe.

The existential threat came from the south.

Half a century ago, Houari Boumedienne, the leader of a poor but militant Algeria, allegedly proclaimed at the United Nations:

“One day, millions of men will leave the Southern Hemisphere to go to the Northern Hemisphere. And they will not go there as friends. Because they will go there to conquer it. And they will conquer it with their sons. The wombs of our women will give us victory.”

This is the existential crisis of the West.

Thus, Trump seeks to build a wall, turn back the intruders and bring Vladimir Putin back into the Western camp, where Russia belongs. Thus the new populist regime in Rome blocks boats of refugees from landing in Italy. Thus Angela Merkel looks like yesterday, and Viktor Orban like tomorrow.

shakey1
06-22-2018, 05:51 AM
The answer is, no.

The west has no stomach for what is needed to preserve its liberty from creeping tyranny, let alone the moral and physical courage to preserve its life.

Half a century of progressive rot has done irreversible damage.



HAS THE WEST THE WILL TO SURVIVE?

http://www.wnd.com/2018/06/has-the-west-the-will-to-survive/



Most people in this country don't even know anything's wrong.:(

Schifference
06-22-2018, 06:01 AM
We live in the land of the Free!

AuH20
06-22-2018, 08:02 AM
Survive from what? They are living in a carefully manipulated dream. We have idiots walking around with the notion that 'racism' and 'sexism' are the greatest threat.

brushfire
06-22-2018, 08:06 AM
Yea... its a free country yo! I'm gettin on with my free phone.

Hasta - off to vegas, b!tchz...

AuH20
06-22-2018, 08:25 AM
I am of the opinion that the West must be purged, before it can be survive. We need purification and renewal. A reset. The freaks enabled by the media entertainment complex need to fulfill their life's mission and die as quickly as possible.

AuH20
06-22-2018, 08:29 AM
If physical interaction with migrants is deemed as inhuman, what other options are there? A menacing, physical barrier is the only choice because the benefits will never be repealed.

fisharmor
06-22-2018, 08:45 AM
Half a century of progressive rot... and no talk at all about the right-wing rot.
The US has been flooded with people whose countries were ruined by the US - and they all know it - and the reason they're coming to the place with a government that ruined their lives, the only reason, is to make a buck and try to get by.
There is a golden opportunity to explain a third way - a way that doesn't imprison people for making jokes about gender neutral bathrooms but ALSO doesn't create banana republics - and the people who are fleeing those tyrannies are the exact people who would listen.

The West doesn't have the will to survive because the West fundamentally doesn't believe in its supposed central tenets.
True progressives represent a very loud, very angry, very SMALL minority here.
But we're already getting reports that the universities that produce them are losing entrants by droves, and serious legal actions taken by their victims (like Shepherd and Peterson) pose a very real chance of financially crippling them even further... not to mention silencing them in the future.

The much smaller threat to liberty is more dangerous because it's the one that has widespread support. It's the one that has had "border checks" a full 100 miles within the border for more than a decade. It's the one that has gotten away with kidnapping for years.

Neither side of this debate has any moral legs to stand on. The reason the West won't survive is because neither side can get its shit together and figure out how not to be objectively evil and do it all the time.

It really did look like a third way was being born from 08-12. It's a real shame so many people abandoned it.

Ender
06-22-2018, 09:12 AM
Half a century of progressive rot... and no talk at all about the right-wing rot.
The US has been flooded with people whose countries were ruined by the US - and they all know it - and the reason they're coming to the place with a government that ruined their lives, the only reason, is to make a buck and try to get by.
There is a golden opportunity to explain a third way - a way that doesn't imprison people for making jokes about gender neutral bathrooms but ALSO doesn't create banana republics - and the people who are fleeing those tyrannies are the exact people who would listen.

The West doesn't have the will to survive because the West fundamentally doesn't believe in its supposed central tenets.
True progressives represent a very loud, very angry, very SMALL minority here.
But we're already getting reports that the universities that produce them are losing entrants by droves, and serious legal actions taken by their victims (like Shepherd and Peterson) pose a very real chance of financially crippling them even further... not to mention silencing them in the future.

The much smaller threat to liberty is more dangerous because it's the one that has widespread support. It's the one that has had "border checks" a full 100 miles within the border for more than a decade. It's the one that has gotten away with kidnapping for years.

Neither side of this debate has any moral legs to stand on. The reason the West won't survive is because neither side can get its $#@! together and figure out how not to be objectively evil and do it all the time.

It really did look like a third way was being born from 08-12. It's a real shame so many people abandoned it.

^^^THIS^^^

Amen, Bro! It's both "sides", which in my POV is just one side getting Americans to hate each other so they are blind to the man behind the curtain.

AuH20
06-22-2018, 09:24 AM
^^^THIS^^^

Amen, Bro! It's both "sides", which in my POV is just one side getting Americans to hate each other so they are blind to the man behind the curtain.

'The man behind the curtain' is utilizing displaced peoples to cement their next phase for human domination. Under the guise of mass democracy and social justice, the technological shackles will be further unveiled. That is the endgame because the domestic population is not debasing itself fast enough for their liking. A demographic shift increases the speed of the transformation.

Ender
06-22-2018, 09:40 AM
'The man behind the curtain' is utilizing displaced peoples to cement their next phase for human domination. Under the guise of mass democracy and social justice, the technological shackles will be further unveiled. That is the endgame because the domestic population is not debasing itself fast enough for their liking. A demographic shift increases the speed of the transformation.

I believe that "The man behind the curtain" is promoting the left/right agenda and hatred so that the people will spend their time & efforts pointing fingers at each other instead of standing together against the final & complete take over of Liberty.

AuH20
06-22-2018, 09:52 AM
I believe that "The man behind the curtain" is promoting the left/right agenda and hatred so that the people will spend their time & efforts pointing fingers at each other instead of standing together against the final & complete take over of Liberty.

Liberty on a larger scale doesn't appear often in human populations. It's an anomaly and even less likely to manifest in heterogeneous societies, since there is a missing trust factor.

In a perfect world, there would be a relatively balanced table of nations, ethnically distinct from each other, but instead we have this dominant, polyglot 'authoritarian based' model, derived from the writings of Cecil Rhodes.

gaazn
06-22-2018, 10:58 AM
Government has always wanted to control and terrorize its people. Now the new technologies will automate everything and make it easier.
Americans have voluntarily allowed Alexa (a friend of Big Government) into their homes, and they will not realize the danger until it is too late.

Ender
06-22-2018, 11:07 AM
Liberty on a larger scale doesn't appear often in human populations. It's an anomaly and even less likely to manifest in heterogeneous societies, since there is a missing trust factor.

In a perfect world, there would be a relatively balanced table of nations, ethnically distinct from each other, but instead we have this dominant, polyglot 'authoritarian based' model, derived from the writings of Cecil Rhodes.

It's never easy- but can be done.


"We are not to expect to be translated from despotism to liberty in a featherbed." - Letter to the Marquis de Lafayette, April 2, 1790- Thomas Jefferson


“Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!”
Patrick Henry

“The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.”
Thomas Jefferson

VIDEODROME
06-22-2018, 11:15 AM
So... basically the main reason to hold their kids is kind as collateral so the parents won't run off?


How about we just say they all have to be chipped when they come in so they can all be precisely tracked? Then if for any reason they wander if they can easily be found?

TheCount
06-22-2018, 11:21 AM
There will always be a west. Also, east, north, and south.

jllundqu
06-22-2018, 11:26 AM
I am of the opinion that the West must be purged, before it can be survive. We need purification and renewal. A reset. The freaks enabled by the media entertainment complex need to fulfill their life's mission and die as quickly as possible.

Welcome to the Collapsitarian party.

fisharmor
06-22-2018, 12:06 PM
How about we just say they all have to be chipped when they come in so they can all be precisely tracked? Then if for any reason they wander if they can easily be found?

That's all just foreplay. Cut the foreplay and take this to its logical conclusion.
Anti-immigration types don't fundamentally believe these are people we're dealing with, so let's take advantage of that.
If they're vermin, let's treat them like vermin.
Cut the foreplay and just eliminate them when you find them.
There is literally no faster way to "solve this problem". You don't even have to do it to anywhere near of them - just enough to make the rest leave.

AuH20
06-22-2018, 12:19 PM
Welcome to the Collapsitarian party.

As everyday passes, they get stronger and we get weaker. Technology is becoming more advanced, yet IQ levels are dropping. We need a massive reality based event to throw the game board on it's back.

Brian4Liberty
06-22-2018, 12:39 PM
Naive bleeding heart leftists are at a Darwinian disadvantage. When they make the decisions for a society or nation, that society or nation becomes less likely to survive. They are not the fitttest, as their naive nature makes them a victim for the majority of the dog eat dog, cheat whenever you can world.

VIDEODROME
06-22-2018, 12:47 PM
So do we really want to aspire to be a brutal dog-eat-dog Natural Selection world?

I think the Left wants to move beyond that and maybe it could be thought of as Artificial Selection. We've long been operating under a Darwinian Natural Selection model, but maybe they think it doesn't have to remain that way or we can do better.

Maybe that's naive though and Humans are not capable of that moving beyond such cut throat behavior or just looking to screw each other over.

AuH20
06-22-2018, 12:59 PM
So do we really want to aspire to be a brutal dog-eat-dog Natural Selection world?

I think the Left wants to move beyond that and maybe it could be thought of as Artificial Selection. We've long been operating under a Darwinian Natural Selection model, but maybe they think it doesn't have to remain that way or we can do better.

Maybe that's naive though and Humans are not capable of that moving beyond such cut throat behavior or just looking to screw each other over.

When the elite parasites will finally have some skin in the game, things will change for the better. Right now, we're on autopilot into 1984. Bring social interaction down to it's brutal, most unforgiving form and civilization will gradually return.

If people literally break their backs to feed and defend themselves in the future, they won't be so willing to give away such fruits away to some governmental entity. Scarcity and fear makes for hard, independent people.

VIDEODROME
06-22-2018, 01:46 PM
When the elite parasites will finally have some skin in the game, things will change for the better. Right now, we're on autopilot into 1984. Bring social interaction down to it's brutal, most unforgiving form and civilization will gradually return.

If people literally break their backs to feed and defend themselves in the future, they won't be so willing to give away such fruits away to some governmental entity. Scarcity and fear makes for hard, independent people.

I'm not sure if Liberty is necessarily in conflict with Civilization and Technology and we should hope to toss away all this human advancement to see if people forced to adapt become Sovereign Citizens or something.

As for introducing Scarcity and Fear under dire circumstances, I think we'd find out how the Canadians handle a flood of hungry Americans looking for work and opportunity in a modern society instead of finding rugged individualism in the left over husk of a fallen country.

AuH20
06-22-2018, 01:51 PM
I'm not sure if Liberty is necessarily in conflict with Civilization and Technology and we should hope to toss away all this human advancement to see if people forced to adapt become Sovereign Citizens or something.

As for introducing Scarcity and Fear under dire circumstances, I think we'd find out how the Canadians handle a flood of hungry Americans looking for work and opportunity in a modern society instead of finding rugged individualism in the left over husk of a fallen country.

Until the environmental factors change, I don't think we will see any tangible form of liberty. We need to get back to basics first and the cycle must begin anew. Experience builds principles and then the benefits follow. The current population is largely incapable of becoming what many of this site desire to be. It's not going to happen.

Ender
06-22-2018, 01:58 PM
I think the "West" needs a whole lotta changing if this is what we support:



US operating 19 terrorist training camps in Syria
That the US will utilize any means that they can to exercise their influence in the region is not a surprise, and that Washington supports terrorist groups in Syria is something of an open secret, as Washington just recently announced that it is resuming its funding of the terrorist linked group, the ‘White Helmets‘, which was largely responsible for the claims alleging that Assad’s government employed chemical weapons on Syrian civilians in Douma back in April. The Syrian rebel groups and others which the US deems ‘moderates’ have also been recipients of aid and munitions from Washington’s coffers, and have served to further escalate tensions and further destabilize the region. America is also openly supporting Kurdish groups inside Syria for this purpose as well, much to the disapproval of NATO ally Turkey.

https://theduran.com/us-operating-19-terrorist-training-camps-in-syria/

This is what the West is really doing, while TPTB have us all on fire about borders.

tod evans
06-22-2018, 01:59 PM
So do we really want to aspire to be a brutal dog-eat-dog Natural Selection world? .

Abso-fucking-lutely!

Gotta thin the herd somehow might as well feed the combatants politician livers before battle.....

VIDEODROME
06-22-2018, 02:26 PM
Until the environmental factors change, I don't think we will see any tangible form of liberty. We need to get back to basics first and the cycle must begin anew. Experience builds principles and then the benefits follow. The current population is largely incapable of becoming what many of this site desire to be. It's not going to happen.

I might be one of those people since I don't see the need to toss out modern society. Or maybe I'm no longer sure what you're seeking to achieve or desire to be.

I mean maybe people could just trade places with these immigrants and go live in failing nations?

fisharmor
06-22-2018, 02:38 PM
Until the environmental factors change, I don't think we will see any tangible form of liberty. We need to get back to basics first and the cycle must begin anew. Experience builds principles and then the benefits follow. The current population is largely incapable of becoming what many of this site desire to be. It's not going to happen.

We're here because of a movement that started in 2007 and didn't show any signs of stopping until Rand Paul slit its throat.
I don't know about you, but I'm one of the overwhelming majority of those of us who got swept up in it, who actually had our minds changed by that movement.
When you doomsayers show up here and say "the current population can't handle it", what you're saying is, everyone who had their minds changed by that movement was nothing more than a fluke.
You're saying that what we experienced first-hand cannot happen to others.

I know it can happen because I lived it. It gets really, really tiresome hearing people say it's impossible.

Swordsmyth
06-22-2018, 02:56 PM
I believe that "The man behind the curtain" is promoting the left/right agenda and hatred so that the people will spend their time & efforts pointing fingers at each other instead of standing together against the final & complete take over of Liberty.

The man behind the curtain is promoting the left and polluting the right, the left believes in nothing good and can't be saved, the right believes in good things and can be saved if it is cleansed.
Even without a cleansing a world ruled by the right would be better than the world the left is creating.

Swordsmyth
06-22-2018, 02:58 PM
So... basically the main reason to hold their kids is kind as collateral so the parents won't run off?


How about we just say they all have to be chipped when they come in so they can all be precisely tracked? Then if for any reason they wander if they can easily be found?



That's all just foreplay. Cut the foreplay and take this to its logical conclusion.
Anti-immigration types don't fundamentally believe these are people we're dealing with, so let's take advantage of that.
If they're vermin, let's treat them like vermin.
Cut the foreplay and just eliminate them when you find them.
There is literally no faster way to "solve this problem". You don't even have to do it to anywhere near of them - just enough to make the rest leave.

How about we just keep them out in the first place and throw out the ones who are here?

Swordsmyth
06-22-2018, 03:00 PM
So do we really want to aspire to be a brutal dog-eat-dog Natural Selection world?

I think the Left wants to move beyond that and maybe it could be thought of as Artificial Selection. We've long been operating under a Darwinian Natural Selection model, but maybe they think it doesn't have to remain that way or we can do better.

Maybe that's naive though and Humans are not capable of that moving beyond such cut throat behavior or just looking to screw each other over.

You are advocating evil and so is the left, you want to give someone power to create a "perfect" world and all you will get is a dystopian nightmare when that power is used by the corrupt.

Swordsmyth
06-22-2018, 03:05 PM
Europe will be brought to the brink of death, at that point they will either change in response to the crisis and recover or they will die.
America has begun to turn the ship around with Trump, it is not enough yet but if we can keep turning the ship we may survive, the left will break out in violence if we continue to turn things around and the outcome of that conflict will determine our fate.

AuH20
06-22-2018, 03:12 PM
Europe will be brought to the brink of death, at that point they will either change in response to the crisis and recover or they will die.
America has begun to turn the ship around with Trump, it is not enough yet but if we can keep turning the ship we may survive, the left will break out in violence if we continue to turn things around and the outcome of that conflict will determine our fate.

Trump can't save the ship. It's going down no matter what. But he can prepare people for the inevitable. His interactions with the corrupt press illuminate the true face of our society and it's not pretty.

VIDEODROME
06-22-2018, 03:39 PM
You are advocating evil and so is the left, you want to give someone power to create a "perfect" world and all you will get is a dystopian nightmare when that power is used by the corrupt.

I'm for what we've achieved even with our flaws. I don't follow the ideas mentioned here that we need to destroy America so it can be rebuilt.

I'm also not sure what the appeal is for the embrace of Dog-eat-dog survival of the fittest. I think we have to much of that and its what leads to things like ENRON.

Not trying to push for a central architect of society, but questioning the appeal of that kind of cut throat culture or why people want a more primitive lifestyle or dislike modernity so much.

tod evans
06-22-2018, 03:45 PM
I'm for what we've achieved even with our flaws. I don't follow the ideas mentioned here that we need to destroy America so it can be rebuilt.

I'm also not sure what the appeal is for the embrace of Dog-eat-dog survival of the fittest. I think we have to much of that and its what leads to things like ENRON.

Not trying to push for a central architect of society, but questioning the appeal of that kind of cut throat culture or why people want a more primitive lifestyle or dislike modernity so much.

Can you figure a way to provide "modernity" with far less government?

Regardless our fine government will see to it that our collectively cushy lifestyle ends before long what with pissing off folks from all corners of the globe. Somebody will manage to strike a resounding blow, probably sooner than later, whether it's biological or to the power grid, life will tend to be far from cushy...

Swordsmyth
06-22-2018, 03:47 PM
I'm for what we've achieved even with our flaws. I don't follow the ideas mentioned here that we need to destroy America so it can be rebuilt.

I'm also not sure what the appeal is for the embrace of Dog-eat-dog survival of the fittest. I think we have to much of that and its what leads to things like ENRON.

Not trying to push for a central architect of society, but questioning the appeal of that kind of cut throat culture or why people want a more primitive lifestyle or dislike modernity so much.
Because nothing better is possible as anything more than voluntary behavior that many people will not participate in, the moment you give the government power to compel superior behavior you give it the power to compel any behavior and the corrupt will use it to do evil things.

VIDEODROME
06-22-2018, 03:53 PM
Can you figure a way to provide "modernity" with far less government?



As smarter foreign policy and modern leaner military. I sometimes we're always arming ourselves like we're still in the Cold War.

Otherwise, maybe there is potential for drone tech having a role in transporting goods so less road damage.

Or do the opposite of that Foxconn nonsense coming to Wisconsin. These colossal businesses should be paying taxes, not getting huge breaks. Thats not smaller government exactly, but rebalancing the tax burden.

AuH20
06-22-2018, 05:29 PM
I'm for what we've achieved even with our flaws. I don't follow the ideas mentioned here that we need to destroy America so it can be rebuilt.

I'm also not sure what the appeal is for the embrace of Dog-eat-dog survival of the fittest. I think we have to much of that and its what leads to things like ENRON.

Not trying to push for a central architect of society, but questioning the appeal of that kind of cut throat culture or why people want a more primitive lifestyle or dislike modernity so much.

The promise of technology haven't been collectively earned and that's why it is so dangerous. A sizable swath of the general public possesses a rudimentary reading level, despite being addicted to the hypnotic glow of their smart phones. Zombies like this will never be receptive to the call of property rights or the non aggression principle. Their time is up, but they don't know it yet.

VIDEODROME
06-22-2018, 05:58 PM
I see technology as empowering people, which I suppose can be good or bad or merely squandered.

As for aggression, it sounds like some people here are want to see the system collapse and then pick up the pieces in a harsher survival of the fittest world of some kind. Maybe some see Taxation as Theft or aggression, but I don't see throwing away what we have now to solve that as a good trade off.

timosman
06-22-2018, 06:14 PM
I see technology as empowering people, which I suppose can be good or bad or merely squandered.

As for aggression, it sounds like some people here are want to see the system collapse and then pick up the pieces in a harsher survival of the fittest world of some kind. Maybe some see Taxation as Theft or aggression, but I don't see throwing away what we have now to solve that as a good trade off.

What do you suggest, wise one?

Anti Globalist
06-22-2018, 06:18 PM
No the west is on its dying legs.

tod evans
06-22-2018, 06:24 PM
I see technology as empowering people, .

At the cost of tethering them.

Kind of the antithesis of freedom....

Swordsmyth
06-22-2018, 06:32 PM
I see technology as empowering people, which I suppose can be good or bad or merely squandered.

Technology is good for quality of life but a danger to freedom, before metallurgy there were no chains.

oyarde
06-22-2018, 06:42 PM
Will western civilization and culture as you think of it survive ? Probably not . Oyarde will survive though and live luxuriously .

VIDEODROME
06-22-2018, 07:48 PM
What do you suggest, wise one?

Be patient as Tech evolves. I think the presence of GNU/Linux and the Free Open Source Software movement helps.

I also think Television Media will eventually die and be replaced by on-demand streaming content including news. The old commercial driven 24 Hour News cycle constantly trying to hold attention for ratings is a disaster. I hope Radio news dies as well to be replaced by something like subscriber premium podcasts.

I'm also holding out and hoping Facebook's dominance is vulnerable.

If we keep advancing, I wonder if highly advanced portable fabrication Tech could lead to so much self sufficiency, people would be more free.

timosman
06-22-2018, 07:53 PM
Be patient as Tech evolves. I think the presence of GNU/Linux and the Free Open Source Software movement helps.

I also think Television Media will eventually die and be replaced by on-demand streaming content including news. The old commercial driven 24 Hour News cycle constantly trying to hold attention for ratings is a disaster. I hope Radio news dies as well to be replaced by something like subscriber premium podcasts.

I'm also holding out and hoping Facebook's dominance is vulnerable.

If we keep advancing, I wonder if highly advanced portable fabrication Tech could lead to so much self sufficiency, people would be more free.

But they will never leave you alone. Help the poor!:cool:

ThePaleoLibertarian
06-22-2018, 08:49 PM
Survive? The West doesn't even have the will to regard itself as something distinct and particular and, most importantly, ​superior.

nobody's_hero
06-22-2018, 08:54 PM
Technology is good for quality of life but a danger to freedom, before metallurgy there were no chains.

+rep

TheCount
06-22-2018, 10:56 PM
Welcome to the Collapsitarian party.
Ethnic cleansing like what AuH20 advocates could be related to a collapse, or separate from one.

VIDEODROME
06-23-2018, 12:07 AM
At the cost of tethering them.

Kind of the antithesis of freedom....

Tethered? By having an account or email address?

Could a person also be considered Tethered by ownership of their house or car? Or their job?

TheTexan
06-23-2018, 01:36 AM
The only way out of this, is to man up and do what must be done: vote really hard

VIDEODROME
06-23-2018, 02:56 AM
But they will never leave you alone. Help the poor!:cool:

I guess I'm wondering if parts of the system can be reformed instead of tossing everything and starting over. I think our system is okay, it's just that certain ultra wealthy people or companies are able to buy influence over it. The absurdity is mostly so that the candidates can buy the most Commercial Air Time. Stuff like this is why I think ending the old Television based media will be good. They've also let the debates turn into an awful spectacle.... again thanks to ratings.

It would be nice if this was completely replaced by a free format with no commercials and more open access to candidates. Basically, getting the old media out might reduce the need for all this campaign money in return for selling political influence.

If more regular people can have influence it would feel more like a Representative Government again. I won't say that means all taxes just go away, but average people having more say in what goes on would be more like Taxation With Representation.

I think this is still a decent nation and system of government, but it has clearly been hijacked by powerful wealthy interests. The politicians seem to have to decide whether to take that money or refuse it and lose to the opponent who outspent them. I would rather see a reform solve this than hope for everything to fall apart.

fisharmor
06-23-2018, 05:05 AM
How about we just keep them out in the first place and throw out the ones who are here?

You know, it doesn't go unnoticed, that every time I claim your fundamental position is that they're not human, nobody ever protests.

A Son of Liberty
06-23-2018, 06:02 AM
Until the environmental factors change, I don't think we will see any tangible form of liberty. We need to get back to basics first and the cycle must begin anew. Experience builds principles and then the benefits follow. The current population is largely incapable of becoming what many of this site desire to be. It's not going to happen.


The man behind the curtain is promoting the left and polluting the right, the left believes in nothing good and can't be saved, the right believes in good things and can be saved if it is cleansed.
Even without a cleansing a world ruled by the right would be better than the world the left is creating.




Or do the opposite of that Foxconn nonsense coming to Wisconsin. These colossal businesses should be paying taxes, not getting huge breaks. Thats not smaller government exactly, but rebalancing the tax burden.


Bravo, gents. It's almost like I was reading the very words of Ron Paul himself.

http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/920827/21232656/1355198031347/what+Venkman.gif?token=p%2FcLSWmSFgT93ThXJTcQlDWSy Hg%3D

AuH20
06-23-2018, 08:05 AM
And that's a wrap!

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9_YW0Ek_j7s/Wy3F_HI4gRI/AAAAAAAAF8U/D9pQ2PKK8H4IKrySGS6yjyRZAB0psMv-gCLcBGAs/s400/responsibility.png

AuH20
06-23-2018, 08:06 AM
Ethnic cleansing like what AuH20 advocates could be related to a collapse, or separate from one.

Ethnic cleansing? A sizable percentage of whites need to fade away. They are just as much as part of the problem. We have a human problem as opposed to purely a minority problem. The minority problem is simply augmenting and rapidly speeding up the existing structural problems created by the native population.

I figure that an EMP detonated in the upper atmosphere would do a hell of a job culling Progressotopia and really throw the evil machinations of Fed Gov for a loop. Facial recognition would be useless with their integrated circuits fried. With the security grid blown to bits, at least our people would have a chance at some type of future.

Ender
06-23-2018, 08:13 AM
You know, it doesn't go unnoticed, that every time I claim your fundamental position is that they're not human, nobody ever protests.

I do.

TheCount
06-23-2018, 08:27 AM
Ethnic cleansing?

You said that there needs to be a purge to create an ideal world of ethnically distinct nations. You even referred to it as purification. How else would you characterize that if not ethnic cleansing?



In a perfect world, there would be a relatively balanced table of nations, ethnically distinct from each other


I am of the opinion that the West must be purged, before it can be survive. We need purification and renewal.

timosman
06-23-2018, 08:27 AM
You know, it doesn't go unnoticed, that every time I claim your fundamental position is that they're not human, nobody ever protests.

On the other hand not being treated as a human by your employer or your own government is okay.

TheCount
06-23-2018, 08:32 AM
You know, it doesn't go unnoticed, that every time I claim your fundamental position is that they're not human, nobody ever protests.

->



No, here they are invaders and trespassers, that leaves them with some human rights (such as the right to not be tortured) but it makes them less welcome or justified in their presence than dogs, or stones, or trees.

AuH20
06-23-2018, 08:33 AM
You said that there needs to be a purge to create an ideal world of ethnically distinct nations. You even referred to it as purification. How else would you characterize that if not ethnic cleansing?

Ethnic cleansing implies the use of death squads specifically targeting a population. I don't want such thing. I want the tech gone, so the game can begin. Most of the city dwellers are likely going to die, when the strings are cut.

Secondly, my point about ethnically distinct nations was about dissolving/destroying the current dominant power structure in the West that meddles in their affairs.

The One
06-23-2018, 08:35 AM
I just looked at this thread to change the view count from 666 to 667. You're welcome.

TheCount
06-23-2018, 08:36 AM
Ethnic cleansing implies the use of death squads specifically targeting a population.Informal ethnic cleansing is still ethnic cleansing.



Secondly, my point about ethnically distinct nations was about dissolving/destroying the current dominant power structure in the West that meddles in their affairs.

1. That's not at all the meaning of ethnically distinct.
2. Purging Jews is still ethnic cleansing.

The Rebel Poet
06-23-2018, 08:57 AM
The man behind the curtain is promoting the left and polluting the right, the left believes in nothing good and can't be saved, the right believes in good things and can be saved if it is cleansed.
Even without a cleansing a world ruled by the right would be better than the world the left is creating.

How does it feel to be one of the sheep this site used to deride from 2007 to 2014?

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8e5074454fcc.jpg

tod evans
06-23-2018, 01:03 PM
Tethered? By having an account or email address?

Could a person also be considered Tethered by ownership of their house or car? Or their job?

Technology doesn't end with "an account or email address"....

Kind of disingenuous don't you think?

As to your query, yes a person could be considered tethered to a house, a car not so much as it's mobile and disposable although cars of today are rife with tethering technology....

enhanced_deficit
06-23-2018, 01:19 PM
It is stunning how the topic changed in just few years from this:

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/28/mission.accomplished/vstory.bush.banner.afp.jpg



to this:


Does the West have the will to survive?

Pat Buchanan blasts progressives who are loyal only to 'an ideological nation'


What went wrong and is who ultimately responsible for this stunning shift of popular sentiment in America/West?
Trump's election/sudden rise of 'America First' indicates that many in the West, particularly White demographics share similar sentiments and see West as under assault lately from multiple fronts.

But questions like above also seriously undermine West's historic role as a confident global freedom/modern values spreader and even as adventrous colonialist here n there birthing modern values spreading regimes around the globe.

This Western awakening of late logically contradicts another stringent popular mindset that makes West to go spend its blood and treasure on costly adventures like Iraqi Freedom and semi-racial/semi-biblical motivated oppression drives like funding occupation of non-chosen Palestinians for last 5-6 decades. What is West's game plan/ideology in the end and who's running the show? Who are puppet masters and who are the final deciders behind policies of past decades that got West to this question?


But to give credit where due, PB had opposed Iraqi Freedom 1.0 bombings by Bush Sr and also opposed Iraqi freedom 2.0 bush W Bush. He was the original 'America Firster' even when Trump used to fund and praise progressives like Clintons/Schumers/Obamas.



Is Pat Buchanan Anti-Semitic?

By Newsweek Staff On 12/22/91

In late 1965, when 27-year-old Pat Buchanan got the job interview with Richard Nixon that would change his life, there was one matter on which he would not compromise. He writes in his autobiography that Nixon expected him to say he was not as conservative as William F. Buckley. Buchanan was anxious to work for Nixon, but he wouldn't budge. "I have a tremendous admiration for Bill Buckley," he said. In fact, Buchanan considered Buckley's National Review to be his "spiritual guide" in polities.

Last week, as Buchanan announced his candidacy for president, Buckley didn't exactly return the favor. In a 40,000-word National Review essay on anti-Semitism among intellectuals, Buckley suggests that Buchanan's columns on the gulf war were anti-Semitic. While apparently free of prejudice against individual Jews, Buchanan has a real problem. His 1992 campaign slogan-"America First"-echoes more than just pre-World War II isolationism. The America First Committee, headed by Charles Lindbergh, was also discernibly pro-German and anti-Semitic, as Buchanan (whose father was a supporter) well knows. Worse, many of his columns have shown a peculiar obsession with Nazi revisionism.

"There are only two groups that are beating the drums for war in the Middle East-the Israeli Defense Ministry and its amen corner in the United States," Buchanan said on TV last year, singling out A.M. Rosenthal, Charles Krauthammer, Henry Kissinger and Richard Perle, all Jews. Why, Buckley asks, didn't he mention any similarly credentialed Christian war supporters, such as James J. Kilpatrick, George Will, Frank Gaffney and Alexander Haig?

Buchanan also wrote that if the United States went to war, the fighting would be done by "kids with names like McAllister, Murphy, Gonzales, and Leroy Brown." Buckley, in his usual opaque writing style, argues that this amounts to charging Jews with starting a war they wouldn't fight in a genuine slur against them. He adds: "I find it impossible to defend Pat Buchanan against the charge that what he did and said during the period under examination amounted to anti-Semitism, whatever it was that drove him to say and do it: most probably, an iconoclastic temperament."

http://www.newsweek.com/pat-buchanan-anti-semitic-201176








Pat Buchanan blasts progressives who are loyal only to 'an ideological nation'
....
Thus, Trump seeks to build a wall, turn back the intruders and bring Vladimir Putin back into the Western camp, where Russia belongs. Thus the new populist regime in Rome blocks boats of refugees from landing in Italy. Thus Angela Merkel looks like yesterday, and Viktor Orban like tomorrow.

EM

Reagan's political slave masters/ideological neocons etc would be turning in their graves over this new and improved policy stances ike this. Probably Mccain's too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqZ-ToXjCz0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqZ-ToXjCz0




Related

9-11 FAMILIES IN IRAQ Visit bombed shelter on 6-day peace mission


As U.S. troops massed in the region, relatives of victims of the Sept. 11 attacks visited a Baghdad shelter bombed during the Gulf War and sang songs of peace with Iraqi children yesterday. "Suffering is universal," said Kristina Olsen, 44, a nurse from Massachusetts whose sister was aboard one of the hijacked jets that exploded into the World Trade Center. "It connects us, and we've bonded together in that suffering.

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/9-11-families-iraq-visit-bombed-shelter-6-day-peace-mission-article-1.659672


Trump Is Pat Buchanan With Better Timinghttps://static.politico.com/dims4/default/5a0b78f/2147483647/resize/971x/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.politico.com%2F11%2Fa2%2 F4354c7784e5787e076619f66e6c5%2Ftrump-brianstaufferjpg.jpg
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/donald-trump-pat-buchanan-republican-america-first-nativist-214221

A Son of Liberty
06-23-2018, 01:49 PM
I just looked at this thread to change the view count from 666 to 667. You're welcome.

I wish Bryan would have locked it right before you clicked... the symbolism would have been delicious. :)

A Son of Liberty
06-23-2018, 01:50 PM
How does it feel to be one of the sheep this site used to deride from 2007 to 2014?

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8e5074454fcc.jpg

Thread winner. :thumbs:

enhanced_deficit
06-23-2018, 01:55 PM
Thread winner. :thumbs:

I second that.

I recall Trump's inauguraion speech featured two leaders, Trump (moderate Left/opportunist with good rhetoric skills) lately being rebranded as 'Right' and 'moderate far left' Schumer. Both probably funded by same pockets.

VIDEODROME
06-23-2018, 02:20 PM
Technology doesn't end with "an account or email address"....

Kind of disingenuous don't you think?

As to your query, yes a person could be considered tethered to a house, a car not so much as it's mobile and disposable although cars of today are rife with tethering technology....

I wasn't sure what you were getting at saying people are Tethered or affecting Freedom. Is it just the dependence on technology that bothers some people? Or maybe the on-board computers that run GPS or other Apps including Bluetooth that can then tether the car to the phone? Do people rely to much on convenient gadgets or using so technology creates a vulnerability for hacking so it's a Privacy concern?

How people include technology in their lives can have issues and it's always developing. I'm just not sure any issues are worth hoping for an EMP to knock everything out.

tod evans
06-23-2018, 02:36 PM
I wasn't sure what you were getting at saying people are Tethered or affecting Freedom. Is it just the dependence on technology that bothers some people? Or maybe the on-board computers that run GPS or other Apps including Bluetooth that can then tether the car to the phone? Do people rely to much on convenient gadgets or using so technology creates a vulnerability for hacking so it's a Privacy concern?

How people include technology in their lives can have issues and it's always developing. I'm just not sure any issues are worth hoping for an EMP to knock everything out.

Technology + Big-Gov = real problems for anyone who opposes Big-Gov...

Any device that can be accessed can be used against you, maybe not in a "court of law" but certainly to help develop admissible evidence.

See the countless threads about 7,243 felonies per day just in case you consider yourself free from such behavior...

Swordsmyth
06-23-2018, 03:22 PM
You know, it doesn't go unnoticed, that every time I claim your fundamental position is that they're not human, nobody ever protests.

We do, but if we don't some particular time it is because such a deranged accusation isn't worthy of a response.

Swordsmyth
06-23-2018, 03:26 PM
->

I stand by every word, I did not say they weren't human, I said they had some rights as humans but no right to be here.

Swordsmyth
06-23-2018, 03:27 PM
How does it feel to be one of the sheep this site used to deride from 2007 to 2014?

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8e5074454fcc.jpg

LOL

VIDEODROME
06-23-2018, 03:44 PM
Technology + Big-Gov = real problems for anyone who opposes Big-Gov...

Any device that can be accessed can be used against you, maybe not in a "court of law" but certainly to help develop admissible evidence.

See the countless threads about 7,243 felonies per day just in case you consider yourself free from such behavior...

Okay under some circumstances, something like On-Star in a car could be abused. There may also be cases where eager people try to find evidence before they have a warrant, so they try to snoop through Social Media. Another concern is any kind of Datamining or letting AIs hunt for suspicious activity or put phone or network traffic through a filter to listen for key words. I don't know how much car gadgets come into play with that, but more for filtering email and phone calls.

Are the words I'm typing here being intercepted and searched for keywords? If so, how much should I care? I have mixed feelings about it because what I post to this forum is Public. However what I say on the phone or send in Email is my business. That could be evidence to be collected, but only after a Warrant.

So yeah, Information Technology can be weird and have it's issues, but my feeling is it's not worth rolling back a few hundred years.

tod evans
06-23-2018, 03:57 PM
Okay under some circumstances, something like On-Star in a car could be abused. There may also be cases where eager people try to find evidence before they have a warrant, so they try to snoop through Social Media. Another concern is any kind of Datamining or letting AIs hunt for suspicious activity or put phone or network traffic through a filter to listen for key words. I don't know how much car gadgets come into play with that, but more for filtering email and phone calls.

Are the words I'm typing here being intercepted and searched for keywords? If so, how much should I care? I have mixed feelings about it because what I post to this forum is Public. However what I say on the phone or send in Email is my business. That could be evidence to be collected, but only after a Warrant.

So yeah, Information Technology can be weird and have it's issues, but my feeling is it's not worth rolling back a few hundred years.

Alexa?

Bluetooth enabled toilets, refridge,washer/drier, phones that can be used as streaming devices unknown to the owner....

None of this is new news.

Now let's talk about the modern man's inability to think critically or analytically when compared to his non-techie ancestors....

Maybe the physical effects of technology on man.......

I'm not sold on technology being as grand as you seem to think it is.

Regardless, could you make it out alive if all technology failed tomorrow? Would you and your family make it through 4 seasons?

VIDEODROME
06-23-2018, 04:42 PM
Oops. Double Post.

VIDEODROME
06-23-2018, 04:59 PM
Alexa?

Bluetooth enabled toilets, refridge,washer/drier, phones that can be used as streaming devices unknown to the owner....

None of this is new news.

Now let's talk about the modern man's inability to think critically or analytically when compared to his non-techie ancestors....

Maybe the physical effects of technology on man.......

I'm not sold on technology being as grand as you seem to think it is.

Regardless, could you make it out alive if all technology failed tomorrow? Would you and your family make it through 4 seasons?

Could you survive? Or is there a view that modern people are to soft and need to perish?



Okay so this is another side to being Tethered from the dependence point of view that seems to really bother some people. One of my criticisms of technology has been Television which has had a mostly negative effect before we even got into computers like today. I feel like we're in a constant process of growing and developing Newer forms of media and we need to discard Television. So no, not all technology is grand. Maybe Television had it's day, but it should really go away.

I don't like Facebook either, but I have liked regular Email that felt more like real correspondence between people.

I do hope Books stay though and even they're a product of technology and the printing press. I also think modern Kindle E-Readers are a great tool. Before this we didn't even have literacy, so I'm not sure where that puts our ancestors in terms of a mostly oral education.


The physical effects vary widely. In the workplace it varies between lot's of sitting at computer or people standing all days as machine operators. Even I do lots of sitting as a truck driver. People have to do some kind of work though right? Maybe what is needed is better work-life balance so people have time for more recreation.

AuH20
06-23-2018, 04:59 PM
Technology + Big-Gov = real problems for anyone who opposes Big-Gov...

Any device that can be accessed can be used against you, maybe not in a "court of law" but certainly to help develop admissible evidence.

See the countless threads about 7,243 felonies per day just in case you consider yourself free from such behavior...

And with DNA collection and high tech video editing on the horizon, you don't even need actual evidence to banish your political foes.

AuH20
06-23-2018, 05:04 PM
Technology gone awry. Did you really think they would let us use the internet to defeat them?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD4ay9-14Hs

tod evans
06-23-2018, 06:18 PM
Could you survive? Or is there a view that modern people are to soft and need to perish?

Yes my family would survive, we'd be okay as would the vast majority of rural people.

It's not my place to determine who's "soft" or who should perish but do yourself a favor and give the subject more than a fleeting thought.

VIDEODROME
06-23-2018, 06:39 PM
Yes my family would survive, we'd be okay as would the vast majority of rural people.

It's not my place to determine who's "soft" or who should perish but do yourself a favor and give the subject more than a fleeting thought.

Okay well people are wishing for an EMP bomb to knock us all out. That's mostly what I was responding to and I think that was AuH20.

I'm not sure what your situation is other than being in a more rural community, but I guess you stock up or can adapt to managing with no outside supplies if the lights went out permanently and trucks stop bringing goods to stores? That's cool, self sufficiency is a great thing or being prepared for emergencies.

As for me, I've mostly been around small towns and I've seen some rural life. There were Amish near where I used to live so I've seen a little glimpse of the life with no modern technology, though they curiously don't have an issue getting a ride from someone with a car.

AuH20
06-23-2018, 06:48 PM
Okay well people are wishing for an EMP bomb to knock us all out. That's mostly what I was responding to and I think that was AuH20.

I'm not sure what your situation is other than being in a more rural community, but I guess you stock up or can adapt to managing with no outside supplies if the lights went out permanently and trucks stop bringing goods to stores? That's cool, self sufficiency is a great thing or being prepared for emergencies.

As for me, I've mostly been around small towns and I've seen some rural life. There were Amish near where I used to live so I've seen a little glimpse of the life with no modern technology, though they curiously don't have an issue getting a ride from someone with a car.

The only reason I bring up the EMP is that there is no other option. Your neighbor either (a) willfully supports this dystopian future (b) is completely indifferent or (c) intellectually incapable of processing the inherent danger.

I think it's high time someone releases the full fury of mother nature as the ultimate teaching tool because our words are certainly not heeded. Americans need a crash course on humanity and life on this blue sphere, since they have been denied the harsh lessons of the past by their gatekeepers. The historical record was meant as a guide to future generations, but it has been tampered with and corrupted.

fisharmor
06-23-2018, 08:13 PM
->

"Some human rights", meaning they are partially human.
I'm not making shit up here, you guys honestly believe there are two classes of human being.
You could be consistent by denying rights altogether....

Swordsmyth
06-23-2018, 08:18 PM
"Some human rights", meaning they are partially human.
I'm not making $#@! up here, you guys honestly believe there are two classes of human being.
You could be consistent by denying rights altogether....

I did not say they weren't human, I said they had some rights as humans but no right to be here.

You and the vampire don't get to twist my words to suit your prejudices.

FvS
06-23-2018, 10:03 PM
https://i.imgur.com/Dt7S1Hv.jpg

Swordsmyth
06-23-2018, 10:05 PM
https://i.imgur.com/Dt7S1Hv.jpg

It should be a left turn.

nikcers
06-23-2018, 10:27 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ixlPowYRpw

A Son of Liberty
06-24-2018, 04:28 AM
I stand by every word, I did not say they weren't human, I said they had some rights as humans but no right to be here.

SOME rights? lol, that's awfully generous of you!


LOL

You weren't here back then, so you wouldn't know. He's right - this used to be a forum that actually understood the nature of politics. Now it seems to have devolved into basically Breitbart without so much mouth-breathing.


I did not say they weren't human, I said they had some rights as humans but no right to be here.

You and the vampire don't get to twist my words to suit your prejudices.

You keep saying "some" rights... it's like you don't understand that every human being has the same rights as any other.

They don't have "some" rights. They have every right that you have.

ETA: I should add, there has always been this element in the movement... this, "politics is the answer", crowd. The people who actually picked up what Ron was putting down realized pretty early on that the objective was changing hearts-and-minds, if I may borrow the crass phrase from the US military, ironically. There were those back in 2012 (I just missed the bus on 2008) who wanted Ron to moderate his message, to mollify the Establishment... to get them to "like" us. Thank goodness he didn't. We wouldn't have had the Guiliani moment, or so many other of his principled stands. Rand, in my view without intent, wrecked all of that, because he like many here seemed to think that this Leviathan could be seized and reprogrammed. He was wrong, obviously, and now the harvest we're reaping is this bizarre troupe of Trumpists and born-again Republicans who wouldn't understand a right if it slapped them across the face.

It's a shame, and it's probably the single most relevant factor in my disengagement from the movement. We don't necessarily need a public "leader" as we had with Ron from 08-12, but we do need a coherent message with wide enough broadcast to attract popular attention.

Swordsmyth
06-24-2018, 12:23 PM
SOME rights? lol, that's awfully generous of you!



You weren't here back then, so you wouldn't know. He's right - this used to be a forum that actually understood the nature of politics. Now it seems to have devolved into basically Breitbart without so much mouth-breathing.



You keep saying "some" rights... it's like you don't understand that every human being has the same rights as any other.

They don't have "some" rights. They have every right that you have.

ETA: I should add, there has always been this element in the movement... this, "politics is the answer", crowd. The people who actually picked up what Ron was putting down realized pretty early on that the objective was changing hearts-and-minds, if I may borrow the crass phrase from the US military, ironically. There were those back in 2012 (I just missed the bus on 2008) who wanted Ron to moderate his message, to mollify the Establishment... to get them to "like" us. Thank goodness he didn't. We wouldn't have had the Guiliani moment, or so many other of his principled stands. Rand, in my view without intent, wrecked all of that, because he like many here seemed to think that this Leviathan could be seized and reprogrammed. He was wrong, obviously, and now the harvest we're reaping is this bizarre troupe of Trumpists and born-again Republicans who wouldn't understand a right if it slapped them across the face.

It's a shame, and it's probably the single most relevant factor in my disengagement from the movement. We don't necessarily need a public "leader" as we had with Ron from 08-12, but we do need a coherent message with wide enough broadcast to attract popular attention.

Not everyone has the exact same rights, you have a right to be in your house, I don't, I have a right to be in my house, you don't.


Only simpletons and anarchists believe that there is no difference between the left and the right, there often isn't enough difference between the party leadership but there is a vast gulf that grows ever wider between the voters and most of the politicians.
You will never achieve anarchy (at least not in one jump) so it is necessary to work with one side or the other to reduce government as much as possible, the right can be harnessed for the work, the left is in complete opposition to the idea.

AuH20
06-24-2018, 12:48 PM
White people and their historical savagery! Sometimes you have to laugh when these stories break.

1010473697159852034

A Son of Liberty
06-24-2018, 12:53 PM
Not everyone has the exact same rights, you have a right to be in your house, I don't, I have a right to be in my house, you don't.

Holy crap, you know what? I've never thought of it this way...

You want to know why?

Because I'm not a FUCKING MORON.

That's why.


Only simpletons and anarchists believe that there is no difference between the left and the right, there often isn't enough difference between the party leadership but there is a vast gulf that grows ever wider between the voters and most of the politicians.
You will never achieve anarchy (at least not in one jump) so it is necessary to work with one side or the other to reduce government as much as possible, the right can be harnessed for the work, the left is in complete opposition to the idea.

"The right" is a little better - a little better - when it comes to gun rights, taxation rhetoric, and a few other policy points. What am I missing, big picture-wise? I think that's it...

"The left" is a little better - little better - when it comes to foreign policy, civil rights, and a few other policy points. What am I missing, big picture-wise? I think that's it...

I haven't the faintest expectation that statelessness is anywhere near the horizon, when the likes of yourself is apparently a well-regarded member @ RPF's. If anything would discourage me from the prospect of imminent freedom, your rep bar here is literally it.

If you think there is anything resembling human liberty to be found on the popular American political right, you're living a far more creepy fantasy than I am, I assure you.

Swordsmyth
06-24-2018, 01:02 PM
Holy crap, you know what? I've never thought of it this way...

You want to know why?

Because I'm not a $#@!ING MORON.

That's why.



"The right" is a little better - a little better - when it comes to gun rights, taxation rhetoric, and a few other policy points. What am I missing, big picture-wise? I think that's it...

"The left" is a little better - little better - when it comes to foreign policy, civil rights, and a few other policy points. What am I missing, big picture-wise? I think that's it...

I haven't the faintest expectation that statelessness is anywhere near the horizon, when the likes of yourself is apparently a well-regarded member @ RPF's. If anything would discourage me from the prospect of imminent freedom, your rep bar here is literally it.

If you think there is anything resembling human liberty to be found on the popular American political right, you're living a far more creepy fantasy than I am, I assure you.

The left is not better on anything and your list of what the right is better on is terribly anemic, I would go into more detail but you have long ago proven yourself incapable of learning.

timosman
06-24-2018, 01:05 PM
The left is not better on anything and your list of what the right is better on is terribly anemic, I would go into more detail but you have long ago proven yourself incapable of learning.

Keep it short and sweet with these morons.:cool:

AuH20
06-24-2018, 01:12 PM
The left is nearly unredeemable, while the right has remnants. With that said, we live in the left's world. They largely created this nightmare. Everywhere you look, you see their wicked handiwork. Who do you think tore apart Central and South America in the early 1900s? Progressives.

acptulsa
06-24-2018, 01:24 PM
https://i.imgur.com/Dt7S1Hv.jpg

It should be a left turn.

Yes, we get that you're a completely partisan, utterly shameless, "Left v. Right", divide-and-conquer stooge for the Powers that Be and the Status Quo. But when you fly in the face of half a century of clear and undeniable evidence and pronounce up is down and down is up...


https://youtube.com/watch?v=TUXuV7XbZvU


https://youtube.com/watch?v=c32G868tor0

...it begs the question. When you pretend that Republicans have ever been interested in doing anything with NASA besides trying to claim credit when it finished a mission begun under a previous, Democrat administration, and you pretend that Republicans are uninterested in serving as Israeli Lapdogs, are you being fucking stupid or are you assuming we're fucking stupid?

A Son of Liberty
06-24-2018, 01:25 PM
The left is not better on anything and your list of what the right is better on is terribly anemic, I would go into more detail but you have long ago proven yourself incapable of learning.

'kay.

Here's this -- you haven't been here long enough to speak about anything in terms of "long ago".

You're politically immature. I've stood where you're standing. You'd do well to avoid acting like you know what the hell you're talking about.

A Son of Liberty
06-24-2018, 01:26 PM
Keep it short and sweet with these morons.:cool:

As for you... you're little more than an unimaginative tit.

timosman
06-24-2018, 02:23 PM
As for you... you're little more than an unimaginative tit.

Are you always this charming?:cool:

A Son of Liberty
06-24-2018, 02:24 PM
Are you always this charming?:cool:

Only with unimaginative tits.

timosman
06-24-2018, 02:42 PM
Only with unimaginative tits.

You are so witty.:cool:

A Son of Liberty
06-24-2018, 03:00 PM
You are so witty.:cool:

And again, you prove my presumption, that you're an unimaginative tit.

timosman
06-24-2018, 03:13 PM
And again, you prove my presumption, that you're an unimaginative tit.

I heard you the first two times. Are you running out of issues to be outraged about?

Swordsmyth
06-24-2018, 03:22 PM
Yes, we get that you're a completely partisan, utterly shameless, "Left v. Right", divide-and-conquer stooge for the Powers that Be and the Status Quo. But when you fly in the face of half a century of clear and undeniable evidence and pronounce up is down and down is up...


https://youtube.com/watch?v=TUXuV7XbZvU


https://youtube.com/watch?v=c32G868tor0

...it begs the question. When you pretend that Republicans have ever been interested in doing anything with NASA besides trying to claim credit when it finished a mission begun under a previous, Democrat administration, and you pretend that Republicans are uninterested in serving as Israeli Lapdogs, are you being $#@!ing stupid or are you assuming we're $#@!ing stupid?

Look who thinks NASA is a good thing or will ever get us to other planets and star systems.:rolleyes:
I never said the Swampublicans are perfect but the left is just as addicted to Israel, the right (as opposed to Swampublicans) can be saved the left is dead.

acptulsa
06-24-2018, 04:58 PM
Look who thinks NASA is a good thing or will ever get us to other planets and star systems.:rolleyes:

Look who is, once again, trying to deflect from the fact that he's a lying scumbag tool by doubling down on being a lying scumbag tool.

Here's where you say, ok, I didn't actually endorse NASA in any way and you lied when you said I did, but claim it was a natural mistake--and completely refuse to admit that you are the one who gave NASA a backhanded compliment by implying you found it better than Middle East Adventurism, and further implying the falsehood that Republicans are for space exploration and Democrats are against it.

Go ahead. It may be doubling down on your attempt at deflection from your first lie, but at least it won't be doubling down on this latest libel of me--and it won't be tripling down on your original lie. That will make you look like you're 'coming around'.


I never said the Swampublicans are perfect but the left is just as addicted to Israel, the right (as opposed to Swampublicans) can be saved the left is dead.

You keep saying that the Right is just as bad as the Left, but if left unchecked the Right won't be as bad as the Left. That's exactly why you were called politically immature, and told you have no cue what the fuck you're talking about. Nothing in Washington, D.C., in politics, or in the public realm ever, ever, ever improves by going unopposed. Ever.

And that brings up the other thing that either makes you a total naked tool or a fool. Every piece of evidence--witness the similarity of Demopublicans and Republicrats on the subject of Israel--indicates that the swamp is a bipartisan swamp. But you keep trying to convince people who know better than you do that the solution to the bipartisan swamp is a partisan unity. The bipartisan swamp is unified, and no other unification of the swamp is going to be any better than this unification of the swamp.

You know, it wouldn't be so bad that you're a damned fool, if you weren't such a spamming damned fool. As it is, be sure to chew on the lies about the world and about me I just made you eat one hundred times before you choke on them, and fuck the fuck off.

Of course it would be of some intellectual interest to know of you spend hours every freaking day evangelizing this twisted Republican Religion of yours for the same reason Sola_Fide did something similar--because your self-image has gotten tangled with your pitifully skewed world view, and screaming over and over what you believe (despite the evidence) enables you to drown out those who talk sense to you--or you do it for the same reason Zippy does--it's a living. Naturally, the fact that you don't want the answer to that puzzle known is the very reason why you didn't tell us whether you're that stupid, or you think we're that stupid, which I inquired about earlier. But I really don't think anyone cares all that much, so feel free to ignore that particular question.

Swordsmyth
06-24-2018, 05:59 PM
Look who is, once again, trying to deflect from the fact that he's a lying scumbag tool by doubling down on being a lying scumbag tool.

Here's where you say, ok, I didn't actually endorse NASA in any way and you lied when you said I did, but claim it was a natural mistake--and completely refuse to admit that you are the one who gave NASA a backhanded compliment by implying you found it better than Middle East Adventurism, and further implying the falsehood that Republicans are for space exploration and Democrats are against it.

Go ahead. It may be doubling down on your attempt at deflection from your first lie, but at least it won't be doubling down on this latest libel of me--and it won't be tripling down on your original lie. That will make you look like you're 'coming around'.
Wrong again, the meme I responded to did not refer to NASA and neither did I, YOU are the one who brought up NASA as if they are the ones who would take us to other planets and the stars and that Demoncrats are to be given credit for that.
Private industry will mine the asteroids and the moon and take us to other worlds if leftist government gets out of the way and doesn't destroy western civilization by flooding it with barbarians who will drag us down to tribal anarchy.

The meme says space and I think private while you think government, nothing more needs to be said.




You keep saying that the Right is just as bad as the Left, but if left unchecked the Right won't be as bad as the Left. That's exactly why you were called politically immature, and told you have no cue what the $#@! you're talking about. Nothing in Washington, D.C., in politics, or in the public realm ever, ever, ever improves by going unopposed. Ever.
LOL, opposition will arise to the right of the Swampublicans after the Demoncrats are destroyed, having the left around keeps the Swampublicans the lesser of two evils so most of the sane public won't ever consider better options.


And that brings up the other thing that either makes you a total naked tool or a fool. Every piece of evidence--witness the similarity of Demopublicans and Republicrats on the subject of Israel--indicates that the swamp is a bipartisan swamp. But you keep trying to convince people who know better than you do that the solution to the bipartisan swamp is a partisan unity. The bipartisan swamp is unified, and no other unification of the swamp is going to be any better than this unification of the swamp.
If the two party uniparty is such a big part of the oligarchs' control mechanism then isn't a good idea to amputate the gangrenous limb and leave it hopping around on one foot? the idea isn't to see the Swampublicans victorious, it is to hobble the uniparty by cutting off one of it's legs and then add a real party on it's right flank to fill the vacuum.


An Idiot like you doesn't deserve a response to the rest of your post but I am not on anyone's payroll.

acptulsa
06-24-2018, 06:17 PM
Wrong again, the meme I responded to did not refer to NASA and neither did I, YOU are the one who brought up NASA as if they are the ones who would take us to other planets and the stars and that Demoncrats are to be given credit for that.
Private industry will mine the asteroids and the moon and take us to other worlds if leftist government gets out of the way and doesn't destroy western civilization by flooding it with barbarians who will drag us down to tribal anarchy.

The meme says space and I think private while you think government, nothing more needs to be said.

That horse shit took quite a bit of mental gymnastics. No wonder it took you so long to respond. Fact is, government put men on the moon, government put spacecraft on Mars and Venus, and government is what is spending blood and treasure trying to civilize parts of the world which have been happily behaving like brats for thousands of years. So, no, clearly your latest interpretation of that meme has nothing to do with SpaceX doing potentially profitable things like putting satellites in orbit, tourism and mining. In fact, I'd venture to guess everyone on the planet has got, or could get, a better handle on the meaning of that meme than you do.

So this statement is either an disingenuous attempt to cover your ass or more evidence you're stupid.


LOL, opposition will arise to the right of the Swampublicans after the Demoncrats are destroyed, having the left around keeps the Swampublicans the lesser of two evils so most of the sane public won't ever consider better options.

Which is, of course, why you hang around here eighty hours a week trying to convince people that the GOP is far enough right, the Libertarian Party is beyond hope, and we are all crazy when we say the GOP is only about two inches away from the Democratic Party on a good day. Because you figure that's just the way to bring on the day when something which is genuinely conservative is brought to pass.

Even though anyone with a lick of sense knows that no matter how liberal the GOP is, the death of the DNC would never bring liberals bleating like sheep into the RNC. They'd sooner inflate the Socialist Party, and throw the ball away. Brilliant fucking plan, as always, Einstein.


If the two party uniparty is such a big part of the oligarchs' control mechanism then isn't a good idea to amputate the gangrenous limb and leave it hopping around on one foot? the idea isn't to see the Swampublicans victorious, it is to hobble the uniparty by cutting off one of it's legs and then add a real party on it's right flank to fill the vacuum.

Which is, of course, why you want to have us all tilting windmills in an abortive attempt to kill off the limb which is doing its job, instead of doing what we were trying to do for years before you ever showed up here, and cut off the party which is attracting idiots by claiming to be conservative, and leaving conservatism and conservatives with no representation.

You seem to be confused about which of the limbs is rotting away. If this is the best diagnosis you can come up with, you can never aspire to anything more than malpractice.


An Idiot like you doesn't deserve a response to the rest of your post but I am not on anyone's payroll.

Oh, I get Idiot with a capital I, do I? I suppose that means you already went whining to the mods, and are disappointed that I'm not banned yet?

Well, if you're carrying water for the Powers that Be, and helping divide and conquer the populace, and you aren't demanding payment for the service, then you're a traitor to every thinking conservative in the nation, and a damned fool to boot. Which, I'm sure, is news to no one but you.

Just keep this in mind: The only thing worse than a damned dirty, traitorous "Swampublican" is a damned dirty, traitorous Swampublican who is self-righteous. Like you.

Swordsmyth
06-24-2018, 06:45 PM
That horse $#@! took quite a bit of mental gymnastics. No wonder it took you so long to respond.
LOL, I have other things to do, you must be really desperate to resort to the response time fallacy.


Fact is, government put men on the moon, government put spacecraft on Mars and Venus, and government is what is spending blood and treasure trying to civilize parts of the world which have been happily behaving like brats for thousands of years. So, no, clearly your latest interpretation of that meme has nothing to do with SpaceX doing potentially profitable things like putting satellites in orbit, tourism and mining. In fact, I'd venture to guess everyone on the planet has got, or could get, a better handle on the meaning of that meme than you do.
Government wasted money on those things and then stopped short, only private enterprise could ever do them right and truly take mankind into space.
And trying to tame the rest of the world either by bringing them to the west or by wasting blood and treasure conquering and reforming them is the detour that has not only brought progress to a halt but is threatening to destroy everything.

Again you think like a statist.





Which is, of course, why you hang around here eighty hours a week trying to convince people that the GOP is far enough right,
That is a lie.



the Libertarian Party is beyond hope,
They are and they are also too leftist.


and we are all crazy when we say the GOP is only about two inches away from the Democratic Party on a good day.
If that was ever true it isn't now, the Demoncrats have gone full communist/satanist.





Even though anyone with a lick of sense knows that no matter how liberal the GOP is, the death of the DNC would never bring liberals bleating like sheep into the RNC. They'd sooner inflate the Socialist Party, and throw the ball away. Brilliant $#@!ing plan, as always, Einstein.
You don't understand, the point is to defeat the liberals in the battle of ideas and in the struggle for power, if the Demoncrat party is destroyed before one or both of those happen their voters will fragment into the various leftist parties and lose their collective power, I am well aware of the dangers posed by the existence of the vote zombies that is why I am keen to keep them from importing more and I look for opportunities like CALExit to be rid of as many of them as possible, but the middle is the key to power and long term philosophical victory we must convert them to the right, Trump is doing a better job at that than the liberaltarians shouting that the right is no better than the left in defiance of visible reality ever will.




Which is, of course, why you want to have us all tilting windmills in an abortive attempt to kill off the limb which is doing its job, instead of doing what we were trying to do for years before you ever showed up here, and cut off the party which is attracting idiots by claiming to be conservative, and leaving conservatism and conservatives with no representation.

You seem to be confused about which of the limbs is rotting away. If this is the best diagnosis you can come up with, you can never aspire to anything mire than malpractice.
It is the left that is suicidally insane and that is running the world, they also keep the Swampublicans safely the "lesser of two evils", they are the keystone.





Oh, I get Idiot with a capital I, do I? I suppose that means you already went whining to the mods, and are disappointed that I'm not banned yet?
Aren't we paranoid today?
I didn't even -rep you let alone ask for you to be banned.


Well, if you're carrying water for the Powers that Be, and helping divide and conquer the populace, and you aren't demanding payment for the service, then you're a traitor to every thinking conservative in the nation, and a damned fool to boot. Which, I'm sure, is news to no one but you.
You are the one trapped in a little box and posing no threat to the powers that be while the left destroys the world, it is people like you who can't even identify the main enemy and engage in political triage that discourage the ordinary Republicans and Independents from listening to us, why should they listen when you obviously have no idea what you are talking about?

CCTelander
06-24-2018, 06:48 PM
'kay.

Here's this -- you haven't been here long enough to speak about anything in terms of "long ago".

You're politically immature. I've stood where you're standing. You'd do well to avoid acting like you know what the hell you're talking about.


They can be difficult at that stage, can't they? Sadly, many never grow beyond it. I'm not holding out much hope for that one.

acptulsa
06-24-2018, 07:17 PM
LOL, I have other things to do, you must be really desperate to resort to the response time fallacy.

The fallacy is, I made a point--that your mental gymnastics mean nothing--and you try to deflect from that point by seizing on another part of the sentence and talking about that.


Government wasted money on those things and then stopped short, only private enterprise could ever do them right and truly take mankind into space.
And trying to tame the rest of the world either by bringing them to the west or by wasting blood and treasure conquering and reforming them is the detour that has not only brought progress to a halt but is threatening to destroy everything.

Again you think like a statist.

The fallacy is, I made a point--that the meme in question clearly does not say what you claim it does--and you try to deflect from that point by seizing on another part of the sentence and talking about that.


That is a lie.

Oh? You only spend seventy-five hours a week here trying to convince people the GOP is meeting the needs of conservatives for representation?


They are and they are also too leftist.

The LP makes today's GOP look like the Politboro.


If that was ever true it isn't now, the Demoncrats have gone full communist/satanist.

And the Republican Party has been full Nazi for a decade and a half. Like I said, two inches away.


You don't understand, the point is to defeat the liberals in the battle of ideas and in the struggle for power, if the Demoncrat party is destroyed before one or both of those happen their voters will fragment into the various leftist parties and lose their collective power, I am well aware of the dangers posed by the existence of the vote zombies that is why I am keen to keep them from importing more and I look for opportunities like CALExit to be rid of as many of them as possible, but the middle is the key to power and long term philosophical victory we must convert them to the right, Trump is doing a better job at that than the liberaltarians shouting that the right is no better than the left in defiance of visible reality ever will.

No, you don't understand. Firstly, you aren't destroying the DNC by coming here and grumbling about it and trying to herd disaffected conservatives back into the GOP fold. All you're doing is convincing conservatives that, if this many conservatives are as stupid as you, all hope is lost. As for liberals, even if you could do a better job of frag grenading the DNC than Hillary Clinton just did, liberals are herd animals, and they'd still all flee like lemmings in the exact same direction. This is why you were called politically immature and stupid. If you were experienced and bright, you'd know that about liberals.


It is the left that is suicidally insane and that is running the world, they also keep the Swampublicans safely the "lesser of two evils", they are the keystone.

You want conservatives to stay on the defensive, always reacting, finding no unity anywhere except in their hatred of liberals, prostrating themselves, standing for nothing, falling for anything, without one shred of positive, workable philosophy to sell the world.

No wonder you keep denying the wisdom of Ron Paul, time after time calling him wrong. He had a positive, workable, conservative plan which could actually move this nation and this tired old world forward in a positive direction. You can't have that. We had that working in 2008 and 2012, and you can't understand why we reject your pleas to march in lockstep with your "Swampublican" allegedly lesser evil after fighting for the good--and making headway, before internet censorship and Trump's unprecedented free publicity and trolls like you derailed the effort this last cycle--holds zero appeal to people who hold with a real conservatism which you can't seem to begin to understand.


Aren't we paranoid today?
I didn't even -rep you let alone ask for you to be banned.

Of course you didn't.


You are the one trapped in a little box and posing no threat to the powers that be while the left destroys the world, it is people like you who can't even identify the main enemy and engage in political triage that discourage the ordinary Republicans and Independents from listening to us, why should they listen when you obviously have no idea what you are talking about?

I'm the one who has heard Republicans wheedle about the "lesser evil" since Nixon, while the nation moves left and moves left and moves left and moves left and moves farther left. Your plan is the plan of sheep and fools. It is the policy of appeasement that has brought every dictator the world has ever seen to power, while men who know better temper their principle with pragmatism. So-called conservatives like you are why the nation is totalitarian, broke and despised.

Liberals who are liberal are a problem, but they are a familiar and predictable problem. But that problem could be solved, if it weren't for the bigger problem. And the bigger problem is conservatives who have no principles to stand on, and no balls to stiffen their spines. In other words, so-called conservatives like you.


They can be difficult at that stage, can't they? Sadly, many never grow beyond it. I'm not holding out much hope for that one.

The irritating thing is, the wronger they are the spammier they are. Did he really say he has other things to do? Not much, apparently.

Swordsmyth
06-24-2018, 07:21 PM
The fallacy is, I made a point--that your mental gymnastics mean nothing--and you try to deflect from that point by seizing on another part of the sentence and talking about that.



The fallacy is, I made a point--that the meme in question clearly does not say what you claim it does--and you try to deflect from that point by seizing on another part of the sentence and talking about that.



Oh? You only spend seventy-five hours a week here trying to convince people the GOP is meeting the needs of conservatives for representation?



The LP makes today's GOP look like the Politboro.



And the Republican Party has been full Nazi for a decade and a half. Like I said, two inches away.



No, you don't understand. Firstly, you aren't destroying the DNC by coming here and grumbling about it and trying to herd disaffected conservatives back into the GOP fold. All you're doing is convincing conservatives that, if this many conservatives are as stupid as you, all hope is lost. As for liberals, even if you could do a better job of frag grenading the DNC than Hillary Clinton just did, liberals are herd animals, and they'd still all flee like lemmings in the exact same direction. This is why you were called politically immature and stupid. If you were experienced and bright, you'd know that about liberals.



You want conservatives to stay on the defensive, always reacting, finding no unity anywhere except in their hatred of liberals, prostrating themselves, standing for nothing, falling for anything, without one shred of positive, workable philosophy to sell the world.

No wonder you keep denying the wisdom of Ron Paul, time after time calling him wrong. He had a positive, workable, conservative plan which could actually move this nation and this tired old world forward in a positive direction. You can't have that. We had that working in 2008 and 2012, and you can't understand why we reject your pleas to march in lockstep with your "Swampublican" allegedly lesser evil after fighting for the good--and making headway, before internet censorship and Trump's unprecedented free publicity and trolls like you derailed the effort this last cycle--holds zero appeal to people who hold with a real conservatism which you can't seem to begin to understand.



Of course you didn't.



I'm the one who has heard Republicans wheedle about the "lesser evil" since Nixon, while the nation moves left and moves left and moves left and moves left and moves farther left. Your plan is the plan of sheep and fools. It is the policy of appeasement that has brought every dictator the world has ever seen to power, while men who know better temper their principle with pragmatism. So-called conservatives like you are why the nation is totalitarian, broke and despised.

Liberals who are liberal are a problem, but they are a familiar and predictable problem. But that problem could be solved, if it weren't for the bigger problem. And the bigger problem is conservatives who have no principles to stand on, and no balls to stiffen their spines. In other words, so-called conservatives like you.



The irritating thing is, the wronger they are the spammier they are. Did he really say he has other things to do? Not much, apparently.

Everything you said is so wrong it no longer deserves a detailed response.
You will not succeed at wasting any more of my time.

acptulsa
06-24-2018, 07:27 PM
Everything you said is so wrong it no longer deserves a detailed response.
You will not succeed at wasting any more of my time.

See, you think you got the last word. But it isn't the last word if you don't say a damned thing.

Swordsmyth
06-24-2018, 07:31 PM
See, you think you got the last word. But it isn't the last word if you don't say a damned thing.

Unlike you I don't care about the last word, if I did I would have let you waste more of my time on an extensive detailed response.
You have the last word, enjoy it but it doesn't make you right or the winner.

acptulsa
06-24-2018, 07:39 PM
And that word is Appeaser. Sure, it doesn't sound like much to modern American ears. But those who were in France 75 years ago understand what a Vichy piece of dirt you are.

jllundqu
06-25-2018, 11:20 AM
I'm for what we've achieved even with our flaws. I don't follow the ideas mentioned here that we need to destroy America so it can be rebuilt.

I'm also not sure what the appeal is for the embrace of Dog-eat-dog survival of the fittest. I think we have to much of that and its what leads to things like ENRON.

Not trying to push for a central architect of society, but questioning the appeal of that kind of cut throat culture or why people want a more primitive lifestyle or dislike modernity so much.

As someone who has studied humanity for a very long time, my observations are this:

If human liberty is to survive the next 100 years, one of two things must happen...

1. Free technology MUST outpace central governments and TPTB.... technology can either save us or doom us. We can either have free abundant energy, artificial intelligence, decentralized currency, and a bright future....

or

2. TPTB continue on their course and prevent the proliferation of such technologies, in which case the only thing that can potentially bring us closer to human freedom is a reset event that will reset the scales.

I would posit that the former is more likely, and more desirable, than the latter... in fact I see the advancement of technology as the most exciting thing to witness in our lifetimes. 70% of this planet's surface is uninhabited (water). I truly believe that there will be floating cities and eventually whole societies outside of current nation-states, both floating cities, and cities on the sea-floor with things like surface-floating solar panels, docks, pressurized elevators, and things we haven't even thought of yet. Ideas like Libertarianism, Minarchy, Anarchy, and Voluntaryism will all have their chance to prove themselves on the battlefield of ideas.

And if TPTB get their way and we are headed for a reset event/collapse.... my shelter is fully stocked, bugout locations prepped, and my powder is dry.

Anti Federalist
06-26-2018, 01:34 AM
No wonder you keep denying the wisdom of Ron Paul, time after time calling him wrong. He had a positive, workable, conservative plan which could actually move this nation and this tired old world forward in a positive direction.

Yes, we did.

And it was overwhelmingly rejected.

Ron is wrong, on a critical point: freedom is NOT popular.

I don't claim to have any more answers, when logic, reason, consistency, honesty, integrity, peace, liberty and prosperity cannot be "sold" to a dimwitted and addlepated body politic.

All I know now, is that if the people that claim to be speaking for the "opposition" get their way, I, me, you, all of us, are well and truly fucked.

Anti Federalist
06-26-2018, 01:40 AM
I'm just not sure any issues are worth hoping for an EMP to knock everything out.

How about the ability to live one day, just one 24 hour period, that you could go about your business and not be under 24/7 surveillance.

When, exactly, did Big Brother transition from a creepy government icon, to a cute corporate selling point?

Anti Federalist
06-26-2018, 02:10 AM
Half a century of progressive rot... and no talk at all about the right-wing rot.

Perhaps I should have said over a century.

Progressivism can be found on the left and right.

Shrub was arguably a progressive, so was Teddy Roosevelt and Richard Nixon and Dwight Eisenhower, using presidents as an example.


The US has been flooded with people whose countries were ruined by the US - and they all know it - and the reason they're coming to the place with a government that ruined their lives, the only reason, is to make a buck and try to get by.

Very true. Pat Buchanan was very much opposed to NAFTA, over 25 years ago, and everything he and other naysayers predicted has all come to pass.

Not the least of which was the utter destruction of the Mexican economy.


There is a golden opportunity to explain a third way - a way that doesn't imprison people for making jokes about gender neutral bathrooms but ALSO doesn't create banana republics - and the people who are fleeing those tyrannies are the exact people who would listen.

I disagree. I don't think they will listen to the message of liberty, freedom, free markets and limited government any more than the millions of people that are fleeing California or New York or New Jersey or Ill-Annoy, and proceeding to fuck up, by implementation of the very same government policies in their new home, that created the shithole they are running away from.


The West doesn't have the will to survive because the West fundamentally doesn't believe in its supposed central tenets.

Could not agree more.


True progressives represent a very loud, very angry, very SMALL minority here.

Here, where?


But we're already getting reports that the universities that produce them are losing entrants by droves, and serious legal actions taken by their victims (like Shepherd and Peterson) pose a very real chance of financially crippling them even further... not to mention silencing them in the future.

Good, let's hope that trend continues, and that people like Mike Rowe continue to step up and offer very real alternatives to an over priced four year brainwashing.


The much smaller threat to liberty is more dangerous because it's the one that has widespread support. It's the one that has had "border checks" a full 100 miles within the border for more than a decade. It's the one that has gotten away with kidnapping for years.

If you stopped it at the border, there would be no rationale for the grossly unconstitutional "Constitution Free Zones".

But I have a strong position on immigration. I don't think that we should give amnesty and they become voters. But I do think we should deal with our borders. One way that I would suggest that we could do it is pay less attention to the borders between Afghanistan and Iraq and Pakistan and bring our troops home and deal with the border. But why do we pay more attention to the borders overseas and less attention to the borders here at home? We now have a mess on the borders, and it has a lot more to do with it than just immigration, because we're financing some of this militarism against the drug dealers on the borders right now to the tune of over $1 billion. And there is a mess down there, but it's much bigger than just the immigration problem. - Ron Paul


Neither side of this debate has any moral legs to stand on. The reason the West won't survive is because neither side can get its shit together and figure out how not to be objectively evil and do it all the time.

There is something to that, and because of that, "we" are frozen by indecision and doubt, unable to lift a finger to the defense of the west.

Which, for all its warts and faults, deserves to be defended.

It is the only political culture, for want of a better phrase, that recognizes the rights of the individual over the mob collective.


It really did look like a third way was being born from 08-12. It's a real shame so many people abandoned it.

They didn't.

When I saw so many Ron Paul people become Bernie Sanders people from 2012 to 2016, it proved to me that a large chunk of "our" support really had no interest or idea of freedom, free markets, liberty and limited government.

They were just contrarians, looking to give "the man" a big "fuck you"...bonus for free shit thrown into the bargain.

Many went to Sanders, some went to Trump, for the same reason.

VIDEODROME
06-26-2018, 02:16 AM
How about the ability to live one day, just one 24 hour period, that you could go about your business and not be under 24/7 surveillance.

When, exactly, did Big Brother transition from a creepy government icon, to a cute corporate selling point?

It sounded like some people were so frustrated they wanted to take out every kind of technology or electronics, not just stuff government related. Or maybe I misunderstood them? That would include knocking out the Net and this forum.

Anti Federalist
06-26-2018, 02:21 AM
It sounded like some people were so frustrated they wanted to take out every kind of technology or electronics, not just stuff government related. Or maybe I misunderstood them? That would include knocking out the Net and this forum.

If losing this forum and the larger interweb universe was the price to pay for an elimination of the global surveillance grid, both public and private, I would happily, instantaneously choose the latter.

I will be more than happy to write you a letter to keep in touch. ;)

Anti Federalist
06-26-2018, 02:27 AM
THE WIRETAP ROOMS
The NSA’s Hidden Spy Hubs in Eight U.S. Cities (https://theintercept.com/2018/06/25/att-internet-nsa-spy-hubs/)

VIDEODROME
06-26-2018, 02:58 AM
I'm not sure how long that kind of surveillance will stay at the level if it shows a track record of failure. It completely failed to prevent the Boston Marathon Bombers. That kind of thing is probably expensive as hell and difficult to maintain.

Some version of it will probably always be around, but I expect it to shrink gradually.

IMO the NSA or CIA should be putting these tech resources more towards poking at Russian and China to understand and counter the hacks they're doing to us.

Anti Federalist
06-26-2018, 03:09 AM
I'm not sure how long that kind of surveillance will stay at the level if it shows a track record of failure. It completely failed to prevent the Boston Marathon Bombers. That kind of thing is probably expensive as hell and difficult to maintain.

Some version of it will probably always be around, but I expect it to shrink gradually.

IMO the NSA or CIA should be putting these tech resources more towards poking at Russian and China to understand and counter the hacks they're doing to us.

There's no need for any of it.

People pay to enslave themselves.

That $1000 electronic dog collar in your pocket will monitor your position in real time, as well as your conversations and video.

FvS
06-26-2018, 03:16 AM
...it begs the question. When you pretend that Republicans have ever been interested in doing anything with NASA besides trying to claim credit when it finished a mission begun under a previous, Democrat administration, and you pretend that Republicans are uninterested in serving as Israeli Lapdogs, are you being $#@!ing stupid or are you assuming we're $#@!ing stupid?

I'm afraid you're taking too literally what is supposed to be a funny meme. It's just commentary about how there is no limit to what Western Civilization could achieve if White Europeans were not crippled by White guilt and suicidal altruism. This modern obsession with diversity and multiculturalism is basically a revamped version of the White Man's Burden. Having failed to uplift other races and cultures through imperialism and colonialism, many Whites now seek to do the uplifting by allowing anyone and everyone into the West. However, all that this is achieving is the lowering of the West down to the rest of the world's level. People are not interchangeable economic units. If you replaced Japan's population with Mexicans, Japan turns into Mexico. Egalitarianism in all of its forms is a lie, and it's a lie that libertarians must reject. Now, having said all that, we can't forget that the migrant crisis in Europe is largely the result of neocon interventions in the Middle East, the Black population in the U.S. is a consequence of slavery, and the Central American invasion is exacerbated by the War on Drugs. Critical policy mistakes were and continue to be made that must be rectified.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Shsc5IgttY

VIDEODROME
06-26-2018, 04:05 AM
There's no need for any of it.

People pay to enslave themselves.

That $1000 electronic dog collar in your pocket will monitor your position in real time, as well as your conversations and video.

I think people get infatuated with Tech and it goes through phases. It's kind of a learning process and some will figure out they don't really need that Bluetooth dog collar or other frivolous IoT devices or touch screen refrigerator.

People went along with MySpace and that died down. It's possible Facebook is at least looking to shrink a bit. We'll see if other better platforms seize the opportunity to draw users away from Facebook.

I'm not sure how much people really enslaves themselves with Tech. Netflix for example seems fairly innocuous. Is some NSA stooge really going to be doing anything meaningful with tracking that stuff?

AuH20
06-26-2018, 07:01 AM
It sounded like some people were so frustrated they wanted to take out every kind of technology or electronics, not just stuff government related. Or maybe I misunderstood them? That would include knocking out the Net and this forum.

because we see where this is headed. Full spectrum dominance. Those who do not comply will be systematically eliminated. You already hear rumblings from the left that global warning deniers need to be killed, even though their data has been falsified.

jllundqu
06-26-2018, 11:54 AM
I think people get infatuated with Tech and it goes through phases. It's kind of a learning process and some will figure out they don't really need that Bluetooth dog collar or other frivolous IoT devices or touch screen refrigerator.

People went along with MySpace and that died down. It's possible Facebook is at least looking to shrink a bit. We'll see if other better platforms seize the opportunity to draw users away from Facebook.

I'm not sure how much people really enslaves themselves with Tech. Netflix for example seems fairly innocuous. Is some NSA stooge really going to be doing anything meaningful with tracking that stuff?

I think you grossly underestimate the danger in such datamining.

Allow me to illustrate a possible scenario:

The NSA, aka "The Big Ear", can and has collected every possible bit of data on you. You have a digital profile that the NSA can pull up at any time for any purpose. Your bank records, your movements, your family, your porn habits, your diet, your friends, your politics... literally your entire life all collated from google, your phone, amazon, texts and video, bank records... all funneled in to one place where, with the help of artificial intelligence, they are able to create a VERY accurate profile of your life. The NSA is an arm of a very powerful central government that is only getting stronger and more powerful. I do not, for one second, find it advisable to ignore the significance of that power. People who still have the "so they're spying on me, so what?" attitude are indeed 'whistling past the graveyard', as it were.

We all have a digital noose around our necks that can be turned into a choke collar at any time. Just look at China... they have turned a "Black Mirror" episode into reality by giving 'citizens' a 'social score/rating.' If you speak against the state, you no longer have access to travel, economy, education... and worse, they will round your ass up and put you in ACTUAL RE-EDUCATION FACILIITES (estimates of up to 2 million people currently disappeared and placed into these camps).

If you think that type of State control is not on its way here.... you're fooling yourself.

I am not a Luddite.... however, I am not blind to the digital nightmare that is just over the horizon. I am hopeful new technologies will outpace this 'nightmare'.... but not THAT hopeful, given my rightly earned cynicism and view of humanity.

VIDEODROME
06-26-2018, 12:19 PM
I think you grossly underestimate the danger in such datamining.

Allow me to illustrate a possible scenario:

The NSA, aka "The Big Ear", can and has collected every possible bit of data on you. You have a digital profile that the NSA can pull up at any time for any purpose. Your bank records, your movements, your family, your porn habits, your diet, your friends, your politics... literally your entire life all collated from google, your phone, amazon, texts and video, bank records... all funneled in to one place where, with the help of artificial intelligence, they are able to create a VERY accurate profile of your life. The NSA is an arm of a very powerful central government that is only getting stronger and more powerful. I do not, for one second, find it advisable to ignore the significance of that power. People who still have the "so they're spying on me, so what?" attitude are indeed 'whistling past the graveyard', as it were.

We all have a digital noose around our necks that can be turned into a choke collar at any time. Just look at China... they have turned a "Black Mirror" episode into reality by giving 'citizens' a 'social score/rating.' If you speak against the state, you no longer have access to travel, economy, education... and worse, they will round your ass up and put you in ACTUAL RE-EDUCATION FACILIITES (estimates of up to 2 million people currently disappeared and placed into these camps).

If you think that type of State control is not on its way here.... you're fooling yourself.

I am not a Luddite.... however, I am not blind to the digital nightmare that is just over the horizon. I am hopeful new technologies will outpace this 'nightmare'.... but not THAT hopeful, given my rightly earned cynicism and view of humanity.

Fair enough and a reasonable way to look the situation.

I guess what I was getting at is any such organization is trying to justify it's existence for funding. The one in China is doing it's thing and working by their weird standards. Ours is supposed to stop things like Terrorism and seems to be failing. I imagine these data centers need steady funding and are probably a huge headache for I.T. people to maintain or even pull up these records as coherent documents for Humans to review even if A.I. spits them out.

It is still cause for concern, but I try to keep some levity about this issue.

Otherwise, I think there is reason for hope that other Tech can be a counter. I wonder if enough people using simple 'Fuzzer' Apps in their lives would just spew out random emails or texts filling the NSA server farm with junk data. Or run a Web Crawler from home bouncing across the internet where the tracking becomes meaningless.

oyarde
06-26-2018, 01:01 PM
I just looked at this thread to change the view count from 666 to 667. You're welcome.

Go ahead and change it back .

Marenco
06-26-2018, 06:00 PM
I think you grossly underestimate the danger in such datamining.

Allow me to illustrate a possible scenario:

The NSA, aka "The Big Ear", can and has collected every possible bit of data on you. You have a digital profile that the NSA can pull up at any time for any purpose. Your bank records, your movements, your family, your porn habits, your diet, your friends, your politics... literally your entire life all collated from google, your phone, amazon, texts and video, bank records... all funneled in to one place where, with the help of artificial intelligence, they are able to create a VERY accurate profile of your life. The NSA is an arm of a very powerful central government that is only getting stronger and more powerful. I do not, for one second, find it advisable to ignore the significance of that power. People who still have the "so they're spying on me, so what?" attitude are indeed 'whistling past the graveyard', as it were.

We all have a digital noose around our necks that can be turned into a choke collar at any time. Just look at China... they have turned a "Black Mirror" episode into reality by giving 'citizens' a 'social score/rating.' If you speak against the state, you no longer have access to travel, economy, education... and worse, they will round your ass up and put you in ACTUAL RE-EDUCATION FACILIITES (estimates of up to 2 million people currently disappeared and placed into these camps).

If you think that type of State control is not on its way here.... you're fooling yourself.

I am not a Luddite.... however, I am not blind to the digital nightmare that is just over the horizon. I am hopeful new technologies will outpace this 'nightmare'.... but not THAT hopeful, given my rightly earned cynicism and view of humanity.

+Rep

Anti Federalist
01-30-2019, 02:46 PM
Bump

H_H
01-30-2019, 03:48 PM
Short answer: No.

But, people's wills and opinions are highly malleable.

So, could they be brought to have such a will? Assuredly.

shakey1
01-30-2019, 04:28 PM
Short answer: No.

But, people's wills and opinions are highly malleable.

So, could they be brought to have such a will? Assuredly.

It'll be messy.