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View Full Version : Why is the Trump Administration allowing an ongoing invasion of our borders?




johnwk
06-18-2018, 06:58 PM
SEE: Separated at the Border From Their Parents: In Six Weeks, 1,995 Children (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/15/us/politics/trump-immigration-separation-border.html)

June 15, 2018


”WASHINGTON — The Trump administration said on Friday that it had separated 1,995 children from parents facing criminal prosecution for unlawfully crossing the border over a six-week period that ended last month, as President Trump sought to shift blame for the widely criticized practice that has become the signature policy of his aggressive immigration agenda.”

The article goes on to say the above mentioned children were separated from 1,940 adults from April 19th to May 31st. This confirms there is an ongoing invasion [1,995 children and 1,940 adults in one and a half months] of our borders and the Trump Administration appears to be allowing this invasion to continue unabated.

Why is President Trump not putting the National Guard on the border with instructions to physically prevent these foreigners from entering our side of the border? Why is the Trump Administration allowing this invasion to continue and then making American Citizens tax-slaves to support the economic needs of almost 4,000 foreigners who have invaded our borders in just one and a half months?

JWK



There is no better way to weaken, destroy and subjugate a prosperous and freedom loving country than by importing the world’s poverty stricken populations into that country and making the country’s existing citizens tax-slaves to support the economic needs of such an invasion.

oyarde
06-18-2018, 07:11 PM
You think only 4k in a couple months ?

aGameOfThrones
06-18-2018, 09:43 PM
I just hope that US Citizens start using the “stop separating families “ when they are stop and arrested for committing a crime.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
06-18-2018, 10:34 PM
Well, the libs apparently love it when they can say, "These are our children" and "...kids belong to whole communities." I guess the libs' parents never told them about being careful what you wish for.





30 second blurb here. Hey, maybe Melissa's idea was used on the Hitler Youth!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgWcBV9_kLM

TheCount
06-18-2018, 10:40 PM
Why is President Trump not putting the National Guard on the border with instructions to physically prevent these foreigners from entering our side of the border?


It's illegal and/or not funded by Congress, depending on what sort of 'physically prevent' you mean

There are troops on the border as a PR exercise. They're shoveling manure. (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/06/14/trump-ordered-troops-to-the-border-but-theyre-doing-busywork-218821)

NorthCarolinaLiberty
06-18-2018, 10:42 PM
They're shoveling manure.


Kind of like the Stalinist manure you shovel on RPF.

TheCount
06-18-2018, 10:44 PM
Kind of like the Stalinist manure you shovel on RPF.
Could you link me to my stalinist posts?

NorthCarolinaLiberty
06-18-2018, 10:47 PM
Could you link me to my stalinist posts?


Why, did you lose them?

johnwk
06-19-2018, 06:01 AM
It's illegal and/or not funded by Congress, depending on what sort of 'physically prevent' you mean

There are troops on the border as a PR exercise. They're shoveling manure. (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/06/14/trump-ordered-troops-to-the-border-but-theyre-doing-busywork-218821)

Baloney. The President has emergency powers to act in emergency cases, especially when our country is being invaded. Do your homework and get back to us.


JWK

johnwk
06-19-2018, 06:54 PM
The question remains: Why has Trump not ordered the National Guard to forcefully prevent foreigners from illegally setting foot upon our side of the border? That is how you stop an invasion, and likewise stop separating children from their parents.


Our country is under attack! Will we lose it to the poverty stricken populations of other countries who are invading us?

And what about Congress' power To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions?


Is Congress acting in concert with this invading force?



JWK


There is no better way to weaken, destroy and subjugate a prosperous and freedom loving country than by importing the world’s poverty stricken populations into that country and making the country’s existing citizens tax-slaves to support the economic needs of such an invasion.

Swordsmyth
06-19-2018, 06:58 PM
Is Congress acting in concert with this invading force?





Yes.

TheCount
06-19-2018, 07:15 PM
Baloney. The President has emergency powers to act in emergency cases, especially when our country is being invaded. Do your homework and get back to us.


JWK

Not to use police as law enforcement.

Swordsmyth
06-19-2018, 07:47 PM
Not to use police as law enforcement.

It isn't law enforcement to turn invaders back at the border.

TheCount
06-19-2018, 08:16 PM
It isn't law enforcement to turn invaders back at the border.

That's not what the administration wants to do or is doing.

Swordsmyth
06-19-2018, 08:19 PM
That's not what the administration wants to do or is doing.

It is what the OP is proposing and therefore it is what is being discussed in this thread.

oyarde
06-19-2018, 08:25 PM
It isn't law enforcement to turn invaders back at the border.

I actually feel that the Governors of the border states are responsible. They could have created and controlled a state militia to ensure the safety of the citizens.

johnwk
06-20-2018, 05:07 AM
It is what the OP is proposing and therefore it is what is being discussed in this thread.

Exactly! Thank you!


JWK

American citizens are sick and tired of being made into tax-slaves to finance a maternity ward for the poverty stricken populations of other countries who invade America’s borders to give birth.

johnwk
06-20-2018, 05:12 AM
I actually feel that the Governors of the border states are responsible. They could have created and controlled a state militia to ensure the safety of the citizens.

I agree with you. No state has surrendered its original right to protect its borders from an invasion!


JWK




American citizens are sick and tired of being made into tax-slaves to finance a maternity ward for the poverty stricken populations of other countries who invade America’s borders to give birth.

shakey1
06-20-2018, 05:55 AM
Yeah, prolly shouldn't have let them cross if the intent was to stop 'em comin' in.

VIDEODROME
06-20-2018, 06:09 AM
Well... they're detained aren't they? Isn't the next likely step to be deported?

Or are they all just being held until they can meet their job placement case worker?

Maybe the issue is they weren't simply gunned down at the border and we're spending to much money on the process? :confused:

Swordsmyth
06-20-2018, 02:15 PM
Maybe the issue is they weren't simply gunned down at the border and we're spending to much money on the process? :confused:

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP. Z8qjNmYsTGdEkZbJs3f4GgHaFo%26pid%3D15.1&f=1

Now you are beginning to get the idea, I also like Hungary's idea of putting the border fence just inside the border and depositing any illegal aliens on the far side of it rather than having to go through the red tape the liberals have created to try to keep them from being deported or having to deal with making Mexico take them back.

thoughtomator
06-20-2018, 02:20 PM
Well... they're detained aren't they? Isn't the next likely step to be deported?

Or are they all just being held until they can meet their job placement case worker?

Maybe the issue is they weren't simply gunned down at the border and we're spending to much money on the process? :confused:

That's really it. If we were willing to shoot we could save an enormous number of lives of people who die trying to get here. You'd only have to shoot a few before the rest would no longer try. Sometimes the long term least harm approach is a demonstration of violence.

I remember when the first set of "migrants" flooded into the EU. There were a few thousand, almost all men of military age. I said they should have been shot at the border of Greece.

Well, had they done that, a whole lot of destabilization of the entire European continent would have been averted. Now that Europeans have been forced to vote for hard-line populists to clean up the mess, a whole lot more people will suffer.

merkelstan
06-21-2018, 06:38 AM
That's really it. If we were willing to shoot we could save an enormous number of lives of people who die trying to get here. You'd only have to shoot a few before the rest would no longer try. Sometimes the long term least harm approach is a demonstration of violence.

I remember when the first set of "migrants" flooded into the EU. There were a few thousand, almost all men of military age. I said they should have been shot at the border of Greece.

Well, had they done that, a whole lot of destabilization of the entire European continent would have been averted. Now that Europeans have been forced to vote for hard-line populists to clean up the mess, a whole lot more people will suffer.

It is true that sometimes pre-emptive violence can avert greater suffering. It is also true that this is one of the favorite arguments deployed by evil men to justify their aggression.

thoughtomator
06-21-2018, 11:19 AM
It is true that sometimes pre-emptive violence can avert greater suffering. It is also true that this is one of the favorite arguments deployed by evil men to justify their aggression.

No serious person could possibly consider the defense of one's own national border against aggressive parties to itself be aggression.

TheCount
06-21-2018, 11:48 AM
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP. Z8qjNmYsTGdEkZbJs3f4GgHaFo%26pid%3D15.1&f=1

On which side of the border should they be shot?


Now you are beginning to get the idea, I also like Hungary's idea of putting the border fence just inside the border and depositing any illegal aliens on the far side of it rather than having to go through the red tape the liberals have created to try to keep them from being deported or having to deal with making Mexico take them back.

The border fence is already inside the border.

Detaining them, deciding that they don't belong, and dropping them on the other side is a law enforcement action.

When they apply for asylum, then what?

TheCount
06-21-2018, 11:49 AM
If we were willing to shoot we could save an enormous number of lives of people who die trying to get here. You'd only have to shoot a few before the rest would no longer try. Sometimes the long term least harm approach is a demonstration of violence.

On which side of the border should they be shot?

enhanced_deficit
06-21-2018, 12:12 PM
Maybe the issue is they weren't simply gunned down at the border and we're spending to much money on the process? :confused:

That's not the American way.. although our closest ally's border snipers have zero tolerance policy when it comes to defending borders.

32 Palestinian civilians killed by Israeli snipers firing as they approached Gaza border (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?521116-Do-you-think-Nikki-Haley-should-discuss-killing-of-32-Palestinian-protesters-by-Israel&)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK9LWhsd3QI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK9LWhsd3QI



Do you really want this to be the American way?

VIDEODROME
06-21-2018, 12:48 PM
That's not the American way.. although our closest ally's border snipers have zero tolerance policy when it comes to defending borders.

32 Palestinian civilians killed by Israeli snipers firing as they approached Gaza border (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?521116-Do-you-think-Nikki-Haley-should-discuss-killing-of-32-Palestinian-protesters-by-Israel&)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK9LWhsd3QI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK9LWhsd3QI



Do you really want this to be the American way?


No I don't. I was trying to be rhetorical and didn't come across well I guess.

There are issues with the border, but I'd like to think we can improve things without shooting down families.

Swordsmyth
06-21-2018, 02:12 PM
On which side of the border should they be shot?
While they have one leg on each side.




The border fence is already inside the border.
But it is incomplete and insufficiently defended/patrolled, those deposited on the far side would not forced to either seek lawful entry at a designated port of entry or return to Mexico.
We need it to have the fence electrified/razor wired and we need the military brought home and patrolling the borders.


Detaining them, deciding that they don't belong, and dropping them on the other side is a law enforcement action.
No, it is a border enforcement action. It is a territorial action.


When they apply for asylum, then what?
They should be told to wait in Mexico while their application is processed, then almost all of them should be rejected and our asylum laws need to be tightened to reject even more.

fedupinmo
06-21-2018, 02:15 PM
I actually feel that the Governors of the border states are responsible. They could have created and controlled a state militia to ensure the safety of the citizens.


I agree with you. No state has surrendered its original right to protect its borders from an invasion!


JWK




American citizens are sick and tired of being made into tax-slaves to finance a maternity ward for the poverty stricken populations of other countries who invade America’s borders to give birth.



Article IV, Section 4... ;)

oyarde
06-21-2018, 03:14 PM
Article IV, Section 4... ;)

That covers domestic violence too . I consider collection of any tax monies used for welfare to be domestic violence , so the fed govt should wage war on itself .

TheCount
06-21-2018, 03:49 PM
While they have one leg on each side.

Federal law enforcement should be able to kill unidentified persons on American soil as a matter of policy?



No, it is a border enforcement action. It is a territorial action.

You used the term 'illegal aliens' in your post.



They should be told to wait in Mexico while their application is processed
Why would they wait in Mexico? They're not from Mexico.

Swordsmyth
06-21-2018, 03:54 PM
Federal law enforcement should be able to kill unidentified persons on American soil as a matter of policy?
The American military and border patrol should be able to repel invaders with deadly force.





You used the term 'illegal aliens' in your post.
Your point is?




Why would they wait in Mexico? They're not from Mexico.
Because they are in Mexico when they try to enter the US and apply for asylum, if they wish to go somewhere else while they wait for their application to be processed that is between them and wherever else they go.

TheCount
06-21-2018, 07:13 PM
The American military and border patrol should be able to repel invaders with deadly force.

Yes, then?


Your point is?

Turns out that the word 'legal' and the word 'law' are closely related.


Because they are in Mexico when they try to enter the US and apply for asylum,

They are in the US on US soil when they apply for asylum.

Swordsmyth
06-21-2018, 07:20 PM
Yes, then?
:confused:




Turns out that the word 'legal' and the word 'law' are closely related.
Territorial enforcement at the border is not the same as ordinary law enforcement.




They are in the US on US soil when they apply for asylum.
And they should be promptly kicked back across the border until they are approved, they shouldn't be allowed in to make the application on US soil unless they are fleeing Mexico, they can apply at an embassy or consulate, almost all of them should be rejected because Mexico is a viable asylum country for them, not to mention all the other reasons they should be rejected.

timosman
06-21-2018, 07:24 PM
And they should be promptly kicked back across the border until they are approved, they shouldn't be allowed in to make the application on US soil unless they are fleeing Mexico, they can apply at an embassy or consulate, almost all of them should be rejected because Mexico is a viable asylum country for them, not to mention all the other reasons they should be rejected.

This is the most ridiculous explanation I have ever heard. Not everybody is from Cuba and it has been this way for a while. Only Cubans had(have) "dry foot"/"wet foot policy". Everybody else can apply at the embassy. They can also dial our 900 number.:eek:

TheCount
06-21-2018, 08:01 PM
:confused::cool:


Territorial enforcement at the border is not the same as ordinary law enforcement.

Some laws are more different from other laws?



they shouldn't be allowed in to make the application on US soil

I'd love to hear how you envision this happening.



they can apply at an embassy or consulate

That's not how asylum works. Are you talking about things that you're entirely uninformed about again?

Swordsmyth
06-21-2018, 08:06 PM
:cool:
:rolleyes:



Some laws are more different from other laws?
Yes.




I'd love to hear how you envision this happening.
Throw them back across the border with instructions on how to apply at an embassy or consulate.




That's not how asylum works. Are you talking about things that you're entirely uninformed about again?
Yes it is how it works.

TheCount
06-21-2018, 08:16 PM
Throw them back across the border with instructions on how to apply at an embassy or consulate.

What do you mean 'back?' Do you mean that they are already on US soil? But you said that they shouldn't be allowed in, remember?



they shouldn't be allowed in to make the application on US soil



Yes it is how it works.Nope.


Asylum
The United States does not grant asylum in its diplomatic premises abroad. Under U.S. law, the United States grants asylum only to aliens who are physically present in the United States.

https://it.usembassy.gov/embassy-consulates/rome/sections-offices/dhs/uscis/refugeesasylum/

Womp womp

Swordsmyth
06-21-2018, 08:24 PM
What do you mean 'back?' Do you mean that they are already on US soil? But you said that they shouldn't be allowed in, remember?
No, I said they shouldn't be allowed to make their application on US soil, we are discussing immigrants who entered the US legally or illegally.





Nope.



https://it.usembassy.gov/embassy-consulates/rome/sections-offices/dhs/uscis/refugeesasylum/

Womp womp

From your link:
Persons interested in being considered for the US Refugee Program should contact the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) (http://www.unhcr.org/). UNHCR in Rome is located at Via Caroncini 19, 00197 Rome, Telephone 06.802.121, Fax 06.8021.2324.

They shouldn't be accepting asylum applications from illegal entrants on US soil, those who can't gain legal entry are supposed to apply via UNHCR, if we leave the UN it will presumably change to US embassies and consulates as I thought it already was.

WOMP WOMP

TheCount
06-21-2018, 08:47 PM
No, I said they shouldn't be allowed to make their application on US soil, we are discussing immigrants who entered the US legally or illegally.

That's not what you said, but I'll play along. Once they're on US soil they are eligible to apply.



From your link:
Persons interested in being considered for the US Refugee Program should contact the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) (http://www.unhcr.org/). UNHCR in Rome is located at Via Caroncini 19, 00197 Rome, Telephone 06.802.121, Fax 06.8021.2324.

You've nearly learned that asylees and refugees are different. You're just a little bit of reading comprehension away!



They shouldn't be accepting asylum applications from illegal entrants on US soil

They aren't illegal entrants. They haven't entered illegally; they're applying on US soil at the port of entry.




Those who can't gain legal entry are supposed to apply via UNHCR, if we leave the UN it will presumably change to US embassies and consulates as I thought it already was.

WOMP WOMP

Good job, you found the process for refugees! If you keep reading, you'll get to the asylum part.

Swordsmyth
06-21-2018, 08:59 PM
That's not what you said, but I'll play along. Once they're on US soil they are eligible to apply.
Not if they are illegally on US soil.








They aren't illegal entrants. They haven't entered illegally; they're applying on US soil at the port of entry.
How did they get on US soil? Legally or illegally?
If the answer is "illegally" then they should be thrown back across the border.





Good job, you found the process for refugees! If you keep reading, you'll get to the asylum part.
The asylum part is only for people on US soil, they have to get here legally to apply for it, the refugee part is for people who wish to come here but are not yet here and can't get here any other legal way.

TheCount
06-21-2018, 09:38 PM
How did they get on US soil? Legally or illegally?
If the answer is "illegally" then they should be thrown back across the border.

They are at the border when they apply. On US soil. How would someone be illegal at that point? Did they drive up to the immigration booth in reverse?






The asylum part is only for people on US soil, they have to get here legally to apply for it, the refugee part is for people who wish to come here but are not yet here and can't get here any other legal way.

Good job! You read a thing! Now you know that what you were saying earlier was exactly wrong!

Here's the next part:
When a person from Central America gets to a port of entry and applies for asylum there, what laws have they broken to make them illegal?

Swordsmyth
06-21-2018, 09:49 PM
They are at the border when they apply. On US soil. How would someone be illegal at that point? Did they drive up to the immigration booth in reverse?
Most of them are not on the border at a port of entry, most of them cross illegally and resort to applying for asylum when they get caught.

Those that apply at a port of entry should be sent back across the border until their claim is processed since they do not yet have permission to pass the border station and remain in the US.

enhanced_deficit
06-21-2018, 11:33 PM
No I don't. I was trying to be rhetorical and didn't come across well I guess.


No worries, I kinda figured what you meant and was being rhetorical too.

Swordsmyth
06-24-2018, 01:11 PM
President Trump (http://thehill.com/people/donald-trump) on Sunday called for immigrants who illegally enter the U.S. to be sent “back from where they came” without going through the judicial process in deportation cases.
“When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, bring them back from where they came. Our system is a mockery to good immigration policy and Law and Order,” Trump tweeted.
He added that the U.S.’s immigration policy is “very unfair to all of those people who have gone through the system legally and are waiting on line for years” and “must be based on merit.”

More at: http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/393850-trump-we-must-immediately-return-undocumented-immigrants-with-no

timosman
06-24-2018, 01:13 PM
President Trump (http://thehill.com/people/donald-trump) on Sunday called for immigrants who illegally enter the U.S. to be sent “back from where they came” without going through the judicial process in deportation cases.
“When somebody comes in, we must immediately, with no Judges or Court Cases, bring them back from where they came. Our system is a mockery to good immigration policy and Law and Order,” Trump tweeted.
He added that the U.S.’s immigration policy is “very unfair to all of those people who have gone through the system legally and are waiting on line for years” and “must be based on merit.”

More at: http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/393850-trump-we-must-immediately-return-undocumented-immigrants-with-no

Based on merit?! Is he insane?! Anybody able to fog a mirror should qualify. No questions asked.:D