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Matt Collins
06-18-2018, 03:49 PM
This was predicted in the 80's:








https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10oOpv3o0U4

Matt Collins
06-18-2018, 03:50 PM
Here is an article about the new US Space Force:


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44527672

Swordsmyth
06-18-2018, 03:55 PM
https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.kinja-img.com%2Fgawker-media%2Fimage%2Fupload%2Fs--iR6txSAe--%2F18j4ofq55kh7ijpg.jpg&f=1



GEOTUS Protects!

DamianTV
06-18-2018, 03:59 PM
... or, "Hey! This is a great way to Waste Money and make people think they are safe from the Terrible Secrets of Space!".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E0ot9iJm_k

Pak Chooie Unf

francisco
06-18-2018, 04:26 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk4U8BembHM

Danke
06-18-2018, 04:34 PM
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Air_Force_Space_Command_Logo.svg/220px-Air_Force_Space_Command_Logo.svg.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Space_Command

Air Force Space Command (AFSPC), sometimes referred to informally as U.S. Space Command[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Space_Command#cite_note-7), is a major command of the United States Air Force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force), with its headquarters at Peterson Air Force Base (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterson_Air_Force_Base), Colorado (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado). AFSPC supports U.S. military operations worldwide through the use of many different types of satellite, launch and cyber operations. Operationally, AFSPC is an Air Force component command subordinate to U.S. Strategic Command (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Strategic_Command) (USSTRATCOM (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USSTRATCOM)), a unified combatant command. It is the primary space force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_force) for the U.S. Armed Forces (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Armed_Forces).
More than 38,000 people perform AFSPC missions at 88 locations worldwide and comprises Regular Air Force, Air Force Reserve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Reserve) and Air National Guard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_National_Guard) military personnel, Department of the Air Force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Department_of_the_Air_Force) civilians (DAFC), and civilian military contractors. Composition consist of approximately 22,000 military personnel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_personnel) and 9,000 civilian employees, although their missions overlap.

Swordsmyth
06-18-2018, 04:41 PM
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Air_Force_Space_Command_Logo.svg/220px-Air_Force_Space_Command_Logo.svg.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Space_Command

Air Force Space Command (AFSPC), sometimes referred to informally as U.S. Space Command[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Space_Command#cite_note-7), is a major command of the United States Air Force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force), with its headquarters at Peterson Air Force Base (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterson_Air_Force_Base), Colorado (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado). AFSPC supports U.S. military operations worldwide through the use of many different types of satellite, launch and cyber operations. Operationally, AFSPC is an Air Force component command subordinate to U.S. Strategic Command (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Strategic_Command) (USSTRATCOM (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USSTRATCOM)), a unified combatant command. It is the primary space force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_force) for the U.S. Armed Forces (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Armed_Forces).
More than 38,000 people perform AFSPC missions at 88 locations worldwide and comprises Regular Air Force, Air Force Reserve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Reserve) and Air National Guard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_National_Guard) military personnel, Department of the Air Force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Department_of_the_Air_Force) civilians (DAFC), and civilian military contractors. Composition consist of approximately 22,000 military personnel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_personnel) and 9,000 civilian employees, although their missions overlap.

The Air Force left the Army so they can't complain if Space Command strikes out on its own.

RonZeplin
06-18-2018, 04:42 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=85&v=faFuaYA-daw

oyarde
06-18-2018, 04:54 PM
Will the us air force space cadets lure Danke back to fly with Chewbacca ?

nikcers
06-18-2018, 05:17 PM
This sounds like a solution to all of our problems. Let's create another branch of the military to do the same stuff we are paying the other branches of the military for and claim it's not. Why didn't anyone else think of thi$???.

nikcers
06-18-2018, 05:30 PM
This is probably going to do wonders for recuitment. Look at all the people who signed up to go to Mars even though it's a one way trip

Jamesiv1
06-18-2018, 05:52 PM
I predicted this back in the late 1960's. Don't remember the exact month/year.

Danke
06-18-2018, 05:57 PM
I predicted this back in the late 1960's. Don't remember the exact month/year.

It’s Difficult to Make Predictions, Especially About the Future. - Mark Twain

oyarde
06-18-2018, 06:15 PM
It’s Difficult to Make Predictions, Especially About the Future. - Mark Twain
The Future Ain't what it used to be . Yogi Berra

Anti Globalist
06-18-2018, 06:37 PM
So it looks like were going to expand our empire across the universe.

kcchiefs6465
06-18-2018, 07:04 PM
This is probably going to do wonders for recuitment. Look at all the people who signed up to go to Mars even though it's a one way trip
This is an idea I can get behind.

Matt Collins
06-18-2018, 07:04 PM
... or, "Hey! This is a great way to Waste Money and make people think they are safe from the Terrible Secrets of Space!".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E0ot9iJm_k

Pak Chooie Unf

WOW!

It has been almost 10 years since I saw that.... thanks for the trip down memory lane.

oyarde
06-18-2018, 07:08 PM
So it looks like were going to expand our empire across the universe.

Fascinating . I expected all along they would take the stolen tax dollars and use them to fund to take things from space that nobody would protest. I have been expecting this since Ike left office . He was the last president to not spend more than revenue in a fiscal year, that will hold true until utter collapse and a real money replaces the old paper currency .

TheTexan
06-18-2018, 07:10 PM
Moon base! Moon base! Moon base! Moon base!

Root
06-18-2018, 08:23 PM
Yup he’s Ron Paul on steroids alright. Expanding government ever expanding.

Aratus
06-18-2018, 08:29 PM
TWO WORDS
Robert Heinlein
STAR TREK
Babylon Five
DOCTOR WHO

Danke
06-18-2018, 08:42 PM
https://youtu.be/U9UkJWL2-jg

Pauls' Revere
06-18-2018, 10:16 PM
Star Fleet Academy.

nikcers
06-18-2018, 10:39 PM
This is an idea I can get behind.

I don't think we can send lefties to mars on the government dime fast enough to bring about any real political change unless we start with the politicians first, or they have some secret antimatter/fusion energy technology they want to scare the rest of the world with. I wouldn't want to go into space without a shit ton of water and a way to block radiation, you could probably accomplish both of those things but it would be huge, it would need a space elevator to get it into space at a reasonable cost. So lets start with the space elevator, we can call it the tower of babel, for shits and giggles.

devil21
06-18-2018, 10:43 PM
Something something Carol Rosin something something Wernher von Braun something something....

TheCount
06-18-2018, 10:51 PM
... or, "Hey! This is a great way to Waste Money and make people think they are safe from the Terrible Secrets of Space!".

Waste money? How is it a waste?

If you mean that it will funnel money to MIC contactors for no benefit to the taxpayers, that's not a waste; that's the intended goal.

GunnyFreedom
06-18-2018, 10:56 PM
Pretty sure this requires a Constitutional Amendment...

Swordsmyth
06-18-2018, 11:00 PM
Pretty sure this requires a Constitutional Amendment...

The Air Farce didn't

A1S8:
1: The Congress shall have Power.......

12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
13: To provide and maintain a Navy;
14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;


It is a space army or navy.

What it should need is an act of Congress.

GunnyFreedom
06-18-2018, 11:03 PM
Yup he’s Ron Paul on steroids alright. Expanding government ever expanding.

And I’m the a-hole for recognizing it in 2015....

GunnyFreedom
06-18-2018, 11:05 PM
The Air Farce didn't

A1S8:
1: The Congress shall have Power.......

12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
13: To provide and maintain a Navy;
14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;


It is a space army or navy.

What it should need is an act of Congress.


Just because the government does it, doesn’t automagically make it Constitutional. In order to have a US Air Force that is not the Army Air Corps, requires a Constitutional Amendment. If you seriously got an Air Force out of Article 1 Section 8, then I don’t think I’ve got anything to help you.

kpitcher
06-18-2018, 11:08 PM
I think someone let Trump watch Iron Sky and didn't realize the consequences.
https://youtu.be/Py_IndUbcxc

Swordsmyth
06-18-2018, 11:08 PM
Just because the government does it, doesn’t automagically make it Constitutional. In order to have a US Air Force that is not the Army Air Corps, requires a Constitutional Amendment. If you seriously got an Air Force out of Article 1 Section 8, then I don’t think I’ve got anything to help you.

The Air Farce is an army and A1S8 gives Congress the power to raise and support armies (note the plural), just because they use different weapons than were available to the founders doesn't make them not an army.

TheCount
06-18-2018, 11:10 PM
The Air Farce is an army and A1S8 gives Congress the power to raise and support armies (note the plural), just because they use different weapons than were available to the founders doesn't make them not an army.
Then why mention the Navy?

If the air force is an air army and the space force is a space army, then the navy is a sea army.

Swordsmyth
06-18-2018, 11:17 PM
Then why mention the Navy?

If the air force is an air army and the space force is a space army, then the navy is a sea army.

Because the navy was specifically being given something that other armies weren't: permission for unlimited appropriations.
The reasons for and wisdom of that decision are a different topic.

GunnyFreedom
06-18-2018, 11:18 PM
The Air Farce is an army and A1S8 gives Congress the power to raise and support armies (note the plural), just because they use different weapons than were available to the founders doesn't make them not an army.

That sounds like justification for anything you can dream of. After all, the drug war is just a function of interstate commerce, right?

Sorry, words have meaning. You don’t get to run around changing the meaning of words in order to shoe-horn whatever the hell you want I to the Constitution. That’s how the left is trying to neuter the Second Amendment. “Regulated” and all that.

Article 1 Section 8 authorizes ONE Army and ONE Navy, so even if we took your absurdity as an “Air Army” it still doesn’t work.

The provision is organizational, not connotative. When it was the Army Air Corps it was under the Department of the Army and therefore Constitutional. In order to become it’s own organizational branch it requires a Constitutional Amendment.

This should be blatant on it’s face. Don’t get carried away by wishful thinking.

Swordsmyth
06-18-2018, 11:20 PM
That sounds like justification for anything you can dream of. After all, the drug war is just a function of interstate commerce, right?

Sorry, words have meaning. You don’t get to run around changing the meaning of words in order to shoe-horn whatever the hell you want I to the Constitution. That’s how the left is trying to neuter the Second Amendment. “Regulated” and all that.

Article 1 Section 8 authorizes ONE Army and ONE Navy, so even if we took your absurdity as an “Air Army” it still doesn’t work.

The provision is organizational, not connotative. When it was the Army Air Corps it was under the Department of the Army and therefore Constitutional. In order to become it’s own organizational branch it requires a Constitutional Amendment.

This should be blatant on it’s face. Don’t get carried away by wishful thinking.

It says armies (plural):

A1S8:
1: The Congress shall have Power.......

12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
13: To provide and maintain a Navy;
14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

All it takes is an act of Congress.

GunnyFreedom
06-18-2018, 11:23 PM
Because the navy was specifically being given something that other armies weren't: permission for unlimited appropriations.
The reasons for and wisdom of that decision are a different topic.

Why not have 80 Departments of the Army?

You are doing the the exact same bizarre interpretation dance that gave us the FDA, Department of Education, the Drug War, Wickard v Filburn and more.

That’s not the way the Constitution is supposed to work. You can’t just retcon whatever you want into the Constitution. That’s how the Swamp operates.

Swordsmyth
06-18-2018, 11:29 PM
Why not have 80 Departments of the Army?

You are doing the the exact same bizarre interpretation dance that gave us the FDA, Department of Education, the Drug War, Wickard v Filburn and more.

That’s not the way the Constitution is supposed to work. You can’t just retcon whatever you want into the Constitution. That’s how the Swamp operates.

I don't think the Air Farce ever should have been made independent and I don't think space command should be either but the Constitution says "armies" not "army".
Congress has the power to raise and support as many as it likes, this isn't expanding what they can do it is simply a matter of how many times they can do it and the Constitution puts no limit on how many times they may.

kcchiefs6465
06-18-2018, 11:31 PM
I don't think we can send lefties to mars on the government dime fast enough to bring about any real political change unless we start with the politicians first, or they have some secret antimatter/fusion energy technology they want to scare the rest of the world with. I wouldn't want to go into space without a shit ton of water and a way to block radiation, you could probably accomplish both of those things but it would be huge, it would need a space elevator to get it into space at a reasonable cost. So lets start with the space elevator, we can call it the tower of babel, for shits and giggles.
Space Babel is good.

To hell with shipping and handling.

Swordsmyth
06-18-2018, 11:38 PM
That sounds like justification for anything you can dream of. After all, the drug war is just a function of interstate commerce, right?

Sorry, words have meaning. You don’t get to run around changing the meaning of words in order to shoe-horn whatever the hell you want I to the Constitution. That’s how the left is trying to neuter the Second Amendment. “Regulated” and all that.

Article 1 Section 8 authorizes ONE Army and ONE Navy, so even if we took your absurdity as an “Air Army” it still doesn’t work.

The provision is organizational, not connotative. When it was the Army Air Corps it was under the Department of the Army and therefore Constitutional. In order to become it’s own organizational branch it requires a Constitutional Amendment.

This should be blatant on it’s face. Don’t get carried away by wishful thinking.

If the Air Farce isn't an army then it would have been unconstitutional when it was the Army Air Corps, that would have been a case of using the army to do something the Constitution didn't allow.

However there is no validity to such an argument because using a different weapons set doesn't make them something different.

What might be unconstitutional is the USMC, the Navy is operating an army that has a major presence on land and it has an appropriation longer than 2 years.

GunnyFreedom
06-18-2018, 11:41 PM
The Marine Corps was raised up by an Act of the Continental Congress on 10 November 1775, and then again in the Constitutional era on 27 March 1794. The Marines were used extensively as an “Army Afloat” for amphibious raids and land marches like the assault on Derna right from the start. Their role did not actually depend on the Navy from the origins of the organization.

If what you were claiming was correct, then Congress would have formed the Marines as a “Water Army” branch instead of putting them under the Department of the Navy in order to retain full Constitutionality.

The proper method of Constitutional interpretation is Original Intent. The same people who wrote the Constitution had already dealt with the formation of another kind of military branch, and we can see that original intent in that act.

Only two military departments are authorized in the Constitution. If you want more than two, amend it.

I happen to agree that that we need an Air Force. Until we amend the Constitution, it needs to remain under the Department of the Army.

As as far as the plural of “Armies,” you may not recall that Armies were state based at the time. Army of New York. Army of North Carolina. Army of Pennsylvania. You have to look at the Constitution in CONTEXT.

Edited to fix a stupidphone autocorrect. Derna, not Debra. :rolleyes:

GunnyFreedom
06-18-2018, 11:43 PM
If the Air Farce isn't an army then it would have been unconstitutional when it was the Army Air Corps, that would have been a case of using the army to do something the Constitution didn't allow.

However there is no validity to such an argument because using a different weapons set doesn't make them something different.

What might be unconstitutional is the USMC, the Navy is operating an army that has a major presence on land and it has an appropriation longer than 2 years.

No, the Army and Navy provisions are organizational. The Army Air Corps was organized under the Department of the Army. The same people who wrote the Constitution also created the Marine Corps and put them under the Department of the Navy. Are you claiming that the same people who wrote the Constitution did not know how to understand the words that they, themselves wrote?

Swordsmyth
06-18-2018, 11:46 PM
No, the Army and Navy provisions are organizational. The Army Air Corps was organized under the Department of the Army. The same people who wrote the Constitution also created the Marine Corps and put them under the Department of the Navy. Are you claiming that the same people who wrote the Constitution did not know how to understand the words that they, themselves wrote?
I'm claiming that the original Marine Corps had no significant presence on land and that the founders chipped, bent and broke the Constitution that they wrote, the Alien and Sedition acts were in flagrant violation of the Constitution.

Swordsmyth
06-18-2018, 11:49 PM
The Marine Corps was raised up by an Act of the Continental Congress on 10 November 1775, and then again in the Constitutional era on 27 March 1794. The Marines were used extensively as an “Army Afloat” for amphibious raids and land marches like the assault on Debra right from the start. Their role did not actually depend on the Navy from the origins of the organization.

If what you were claiming was correct, then Congress would have formed the Marines as a “Water Army” branch instead of putting them under the Department of the Navy in order to retain full Constitutionality.

The proper method of Constitutional interpretation is Original Intent. The same people who wrote the Constitution had already dealt with the formation of another kind of military branch, and we can see that original intent in that act.

Only two military departments are authorized in the Constitution. If you want more than two, amend it.

I happen to agree that that we need an Air Force. Until we amend the Constitution, it needs to remain under the Department of the Army.

As as far as the plural of “Armies,” you may not recall that Armies were state based at the time. Army of New York. Army of North Carolina. Army of Pennsylvania. You have to look at the Constitution in CONTEXT.

They put the Marine Corps under the Navy to evade the 2 year limit on appropriations for armies.

You can divide your armies by area or by focus, the difference is all but nonexistent.

GunnyFreedom
06-18-2018, 11:50 PM
LMAO! James Madison wrote the Constitution, but Swordsmyth here understands it better than the guy who...you know...actually wrote it...

John Adams signed the Act into law to form the Marines in 1798. James Madison served 1809-1817 and continued to utilize the Marines in 1811.

Clearly the guy who wrote the Constitution thought they were Constitutional....

Because they were organized under the Constitutional Department of the Navy.

smdh.

GunnyFreedom
06-18-2018, 11:51 PM
I'm claiming that the original Marine Corps had no significant presence on land and that the founders chipped, bent and broke the Constitution that they wrote, the Alien and Sedition acts were in flagrant violation of the Constitution.

You should demand a refund from your history professor. That base in Georgia that James Madison established in 1811 for Marines to operate out of? Yeah, you didn't know anything about that at all, did you?

GunnyFreedom
06-18-2018, 11:54 PM
All of this was during James Madison's Presidency. Again, the guy who actually....wrote....the Constitution:

From Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States_Marine_Corps#Establis hment_of_the_modern_Marine_Corps


In May 1811, 2 officers and 47 Marines established an advanced base on Cumberland Island, Georgia to be used for actions against pirates in Spanish Florida, and captured Fernandina on 18 March 1812 for occupation until May 1813. This was the first peacetime overseas base of the United States.

U.S. Marines in June 1814 aboard the USS Wasp fire from the rigging at the HMS Reindeer during the famous naval battle

U.S. Marines manning their guns August 1814 at Bladensburg, attached to the Chesapeake Bay Flotilla under the command of U.S. Navy Commodore Joshua Barney in defense of Washington D.C.

The Marine Corps' first land action of the War of 1812 was the establishment of an advanced base at Sackets Harbor, New York by 63 Marines. This gave the Navy a base on the shores of Lake Ontario, and later, headquartered their operations in the Great Lakes; Marines helped to repel two British attacks (the First and Second Battle of Sacket's Harbor).[79] The Marines also established another base at Erie, Pennsylvania. Marine ship detachments took part in the great frigate duels of the war, the first U.S. victories of the war. By the end of the war Marines acquired a reputation as marksmen, especially in ship-to-ship actions. On 27 April 1813, Marines participated in United States Army Colonel Winfield Scott's landing at York (now Toronto).[79] Under Commodore Joshua Barney and Captain Samuel Miller, they acted to delay the British forces marching toward Washington at the Battle of Bladensburg.[79] During the battle, they held the line after the Army and militia retreated, though were eventually overrun. Tradition holds that the British respected their fighting enough to spare the Marine Barracks and Commandant's house when they burned Washington,[80] though they may have intended to use it as a headquarters; a related legend cites that two NCOs buried treasure at the site (to prevent its capture) that is yet unfound.[80] At the Battle of New Orleans, the Marines held the center of Gen Andrew Jackson's defensive line. A total of 46 Marines would die and 66 were wounded in the war.[67]

Together with sailors and Army troops, they again captured Amelia Island and Fernandina in Spanish Florida on 23 December 1817.

GunnyFreedom
06-18-2018, 11:58 PM
I'm claiming ... that the founders chipped, bent and broke the Constitution that they wrote,

So yeah, you are claiming to understand the Constitution better than the guy who wrote it.


the Alien and Sedition acts were in flagrant violation of the Constitution.

James Madison wrote in The Virginia Report, 1800, by the Virginia House of Delegates, that the Sedition Act was unconstitutional.

TheCount
06-19-2018, 12:01 AM
Because the navy was specifically being given something that other armies weren't: permission for unlimited appropriations.
The reasons for and wisdom of that decision are a different topic.
Why not just put the space force under the postal system?

All space ships send and receive messages, which is your standard for making them post offices. That seems like the easiest constitutional justification.

Swordsmyth
06-19-2018, 12:02 AM
LMAO! James Madison wrote the Constitution, but Swordsmyth here understands it better than the guy who...you know...actually wrote it...

John Adams signed the Act into law to form the Marines in 1798. James Madison served 1809-1817 and continued to utilize the Marines in 1811.

Clearly the guy who wrote the Constitution thought they were Constitutional....

Because they were organized under the Constitutional Department of the Navy.

smdh.


You should demand a refund from your history professor. That base in Georgia that James Madison established in 1811 for Marines to operate out of? Yeah, you didn't know anything about that at all, did you?

I know they had bases, they didn't live on ships all of the time, but they were a tiny force compared to the army.
Also I said "MAY" be unconstitutional.
Madison establishing them does not make it constitutional any more than a national bank is constitutional because Hamilton (who was also at the constitutional convention) wanted one.
The Founders began violating the Constitution almost as soon as the ink was dry.
In any case if the USMC is constitutional in spite of the violation of the 2 year appropriation limit on armies (which was intended as a check on any armed force that might be used to subjugate the people [the USMC fits that description]) then the Air Farce and now a space army certainly are.

TheCount
06-19-2018, 12:03 AM
So yeah, you are claiming to understand the Constitution better than the guy who wrote it.

He does this a lot.

GunnyFreedom
06-19-2018, 12:05 AM
I know they had bases, they didn't live on ships all of the time, but they were a tiny force compared to the army.
Also I said "MAY" be unconstitutional.
Madison establishing them does not make it constitutional any more than a national bank is constitutional because Hamilton (who was also at the constitutional convention) wanted one.
The Founders began violating the Constitution almost as soon as the ink was dry.
In any case if the USMC is constitutional in spite of the violation of the 2 year appropriation limit on armies (which was intended as a check on any armed force that might be used to subjugate the people [the USMC fits that description]) then the Air Farce and now a space army certainly are.

You don't get to wish whatever you want into the Constitution.

The Constitution authorized two branches. An Army branch and a Navy branch. Any military force must either reside under one of the two Constitutionally authorized branches, or a Constitutional Amendment must be made to amend the Constitution to authorize a third branch.

This isn't rocket science, and I know you are smarter than this. Is this deliberate, or is this just an example of Trumgasming?

Swordsmyth
06-19-2018, 12:05 AM
Why not just put the space force under the postal system?

All space ships send and receive messages, which is your standard for making them post offices. That seems like the easiest constitutional justification.

They do not provide the public with communications services so they are not a postal service.

GunnyFreedom
06-19-2018, 12:06 AM
Why not just put the space force under the postal system?

All space ships send and receive messages, which is your standard for making them post offices. That seems like the easiest constitutional justification.

lol! out of ammo...

GunnyFreedom
06-19-2018, 12:08 AM
They do not provide the public with communications services so they are not a postal service.

.... until there is a 'public' on Mars, which seems to be in the works as we speak, so his point remains.

Swordsmyth
06-19-2018, 12:11 AM
You don't get to wish whatever you want into the Constitution.

The Constitution authorized two branches. An Army branch and a Navy branch. Any military force must either reside under one of the two Constitutionally authorized branches, or a Constitutional Amendment must be made to amend the Constitution to authorize a third branch.

This isn't rocket science, and I know you are smarter than this. Is this deliberate, or is this just an example of Trumgasming?
I don't agree with Trump doing this and he is acting unconstitutionally because he doesn't have an act of Congress.
The Constitution doesn't "authorize two branches" it authorizes Congress to raise and support Armies and a Navy, that is an important difference, nowhere does it specify how any armies raised are to be organized, it gives that power to Congress to do with as it chooses:

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces

TheCount
06-19-2018, 12:13 AM
They do not provide the public with communications services so they are not a postal service.

The Global Positioning System, originally Navstar GPS, is a satellite-based radionavigation system owned by the United States government and operated by the United States Air Force.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System

GPS satellites are functionally radio towers, sending messages.

Swordsmyth
06-19-2018, 12:14 AM
.... until there is a 'public' on Mars, which seems to be in the works as we speak, so his point remains.

The space force wouldn't be Constitutional as a postal service until then........So my point still stands.

Swordsmyth
06-19-2018, 12:16 AM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System

GPS satellites are functionally radio towers, sending messages.

Just because something may or may not be able to be considered a postal service doesn't mean it has to be one, GPS satellites are primarily a military project and that is how they are justified, therefore they don't need to be justified as a postal service.
Also they don't send linguistic messages in any human language.

GunnyFreedom
06-19-2018, 12:17 AM
I don't agree with Trump doing this and he is acting unconstitutionally because he doesn't have an act of Congress.
The Constitution doesn't "authorize two branches" it authorizes Congress to raise and support Armies and a Navy, that is an important difference, nowhere does it specify how any armies raised are to be organized, it gives that power to Congress to do with as it chooses:

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces

The Constituion clearly authorizes two Departments. Army, and Navy. This covers land and sea. If they want a force for the Air, they need to amend the Constitution. If they want a force for Space, they need to amend the Constitution.

Original Intent. The Framers did not originally intend aircraft and spaceships.

GunnyFreedom
06-19-2018, 12:18 AM
Just because something may or may not be able to be considered a postal service doesn't mean it has to be one, GPS satellites are primarily a military project and that is how they are justified, therefore they don't need to be justified as a postal service.
Also they don't send linguistic messages in any human language.

Voyager sent linguistic messages in all human languages.

nikcers
06-19-2018, 12:20 AM
Space Babel is good.

To hell with shipping and handling.

Come on wheres the spin, heres one, Trump just wants to make peace with Russia and go into space, the only way we can make peace with Russia is with a space race, or maybe we will keep buying all of our rockets from Russia and that will be our way of making peace and going into space.

GunnyFreedom
06-19-2018, 12:22 AM
Original Intent. The Framers did not originally intend aircraft and spaceships.

And before you make a snide remark about flintlocks and quill pens, the Framer's original intent was that the right to bear arms extended to the equal armament common to military use, and the original intent of freedom of speech extended to all manner of expression.

Whereas the original intent of the Army was a land based combat force, and the Navy a sea based combat force.

Original intent is a thing. maybe you should look it up.

TheCount
06-19-2018, 12:25 AM
Just because something may or may not be able to be considered a postal service doesn't mean it has to be one, GPS satellites are primarily a military project and that is how they are justified, therefore they don't need to be justified as a postal service.
There are more civilian users than military.


Also they don't send linguistic messages in any human language.

Neither does your ISP, but you argued that should be part of the postal system.

Swordsmyth
06-19-2018, 12:29 AM
The Constituion clearly authorizes two Departments. Army, and Navy. This covers land and sea. If they want a force for the Air, they need to amend the Constitution. If they want a force for Space, they need to amend the Constitution.
It doesn't authorize any departments, it leaves that to Congress, it authorizes "armies" and a "Navy" and makes a difference in how they are to be funded.


Original Intent. The Framers did not originally intend aircraft and spaceships.

That is like saying the 2ndA only covers muskets.

Swordsmyth
06-19-2018, 12:29 AM
Voyager sent linguistic messages in all human languages.

Was the public allowed to use it?

Swordsmyth
06-19-2018, 12:32 AM
And before you make a snide remark about flintlocks and quill pens, the Framer's original intent was that the right to bear arms extended to the equal armament common to military use, and the original intent of freedom of speech extended to all manner of expression.

Whereas the original intent of the Army was a land based combat force, and the Navy a sea based combat force.

Original intent is a thing. maybe you should look it up.

The Air Farce is based on land and the space force will be as well, the USMC is again in more danger of being unconstitutional since it has become more land based than sea based but doesn't have a two year appropriation limit.

GunnyFreedom
06-19-2018, 12:34 AM
It doesn't authorize any departments, it leaves that to Congress, it authorizes "armies" and a "Navy" and makes a difference in how they are to be funded.



That is like saying the 2ndA only covers muskets.

called. it.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?523327-Trump-to-start-US-Space-Force&p=6642262&viewfull=1#post6642262

Swordsmyth
06-19-2018, 12:35 AM
There are more civilian users than military.
Irrelevant, the military is allowing the public to use their equipment as a courtesy.




Neither does your ISP, but you argued that should be part of the postal system.
They do, it may be enciphered and deciphered en route but this is still a linguistic message in a human language.

Swordsmyth
06-19-2018, 12:37 AM
called. it.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?523327-Trump-to-start-US-Space-Force&p=6642262&viewfull=1#post6642262

Truth is truth, I replied to your expanded argument when I got to it. (post #67)

GunnyFreedom
06-19-2018, 12:42 AM
The Air Farce is based on land and the space force will be as well, the USMC is again in more danger of being unconstitutional since it has become more land based than sea based but doesn't have a two year appropriation limit.

Because you understand the Constitution better than they guy who actually wrote it. Got it. :D

Swordsmyth
06-19-2018, 12:44 AM
Because you understand the Constitution better than they guy who actually wrote it. Got it. :D

I am using your definitions of what is meant by "army" and "navy" as well as the original intent of the 2 year appropriation limit.

TheCount
06-19-2018, 01:14 AM
They do, it may be enciphered and deciphered en route but this is still a linguistic message in a human language.
A string of times is a human message, no different than picking up your phone and calling a a time service so that you can set the clock on your microwave.

Swordsmyth
06-19-2018, 01:17 AM
A string of times is a human message, no different than picking up your phone and calling a a time service so that you can set the clock on your microwave.

It still isn't a postal service because you and I can't send a message through it, even if it could be a postal service it doesn't have to be because it is military equipment and the military is constitutional.

TheCount
06-19-2018, 01:38 AM
It still isn't a postal service

It's also not an army.

The difference is that one of these two arguments is intentionally ridiculous to prove a point, while the other is sincere. Both arise from the concept that the Constitution means whatever we want it to mean, and that concepts should just be shoehorned in as we decide that some new, vast government power should be instated.

Swordsmyth
06-19-2018, 01:43 AM
It's also not an army.

The difference is that one of these two arguments is intentionally ridiculous to prove a point, while the other is sincere. Both arise from the concept that the Constitution means whatever we want it to mean, and that concepts should just be shoehorned in as we decide that some new, vast government power should be instated.

Armies have always used navigation equipment, it is a perfectly Constitutional military project.
The space force would be an army and would be Constitutional if it were created with an act of Congress.
Internet service would be a modern Postal service and perfectly Constitutional if the Post Office provided it.

TheCount
06-19-2018, 01:48 AM
Armies have always used navigation equipmentHas nothing to do with anything.



The space force would be an army

Why wouldn't the space force be a broccoli?



and would be Constitutional if it were created with an act of Congress.

Internet service would be a modern Postal service and perfectly Constitutional if the Post Office provided it.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?523327-Trump-to-start-US-Space-Force&p=6642282&viewfull=1#post6642282

Swordsmyth
06-19-2018, 01:55 AM
Has nothing to do with anything.
Yes it does, we are discussing GPS, GPS is constitutional because it is navigation equipment for the Constitutional military which Congress is empowered to equip.
GPS is not a postal service because the public can't use it to send messages.





Why wouldn't the space force be a broccoli?
Because broccoli is a plant not a group of humans armed and organized for combat.





http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?523327-Trump-to-start-US-Space-Force&p=6642282&viewfull=1#post6642282
Repeating yourself doesn't make you right.

nikcers
06-19-2018, 02:19 AM
GOARMY.COM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuIRAEZw-Mc

Swordsmyth
06-19-2018, 03:01 AM
A Space Force would be part of the Air Force, just like the Marine Corps is part of the Navy.

Aside from helping with scientific space-related endeavors (launching satellites, helping with the retrieval of astronauts and equipment, etc.), the main goal wouldn't be much different from other branches of the military: the demonstration of total military superiority in a given area of operations.
Although that area starts at the edge of space and goes over the Kármán line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A1rm%C3%A1n_line) (62 miles above sea level), the superiority is accomplished by the same basic principle used elsewhere:
Surveillance and reconnaissance: In this sense, the Space Force would be the ultimate "eye in the sky" -- it would give unmatched insight into positions of enemies as well as allies, using visualization that would be able to uncover hidden enemy locations and provide intel in situations of diminished visibility. This would be achieved through a combination of satellites and unmanned aerial reconnaissance vehicles that would send and coordinate their data in real-time with intelligence received from ground forces, creating a multi-dimensional layout of enemy position and activity, enabling effective and more accurate target acquisition. Acquired data would be further examined in the Space Force command centers on the ground, as well as in space, perhaps in the form of orbiting space stations.
Logistics: The Space Force should be able to deliver ordnance, vehicles, supplies and personnel with an unmatched speed to any area of operations using special high-load thruster-powered space carriers that would dispatch resources from the orbit directly to any location on Earth. Sounds farfetched? For now, it does seem like something from a sci-fi movie, but it's definitely not beyond the realm of possibility. Vehicles that can land from space and launch into orbit at a moment's notice are a logical next step in the evolution of reusable space rockets (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reusable_launch_system). Those carriers would also be capable of delivering significant amounts of supplies necessary for rapid deployment of orbital structures and armaments. Speaking of which ...
Orbital strikes: Engaging an enemy from the orbit wouldn't be limited to the distribution of troops and vehicles, but also by means of solar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_gun) and laser cannons mounted on special satellites (https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/a18194748/aehf-doomsday-satellites/) and installations. Those would deliver devastating strikes using focused laser beams or sunlight that could melt or vaporize incoming missiles, airplanes as well as ground targets. Special equipment on the satellites would have to make them resistant to hacking and jamming since their unique destructive power and capabilities would turn them into a high-priority target for the enemy. A special defensive parameter would also need to be raised around these orbital structures, such as space minefields or even fighter-class spaceships. Their role would be to defend strategic points, organize into squadrons and assault enemy installations in space.
Trade and travel routes
As space technology evolves, the Space Force wouldn't be focused solely on Earth-based goals. Soon, celestial bodies in the solar system would become strategic targets.
Wars wouldn't be fought exclusively for resources. Our solar system, not to mention the rest of universe, has ample amounts of them. The focus would be on holding strategic locations along trade and travel routes. Time is money, and whoever owns or controls the most lucrative, shortest routes, controls the space.
To achieve this, countries would need to establish bases on asteroids, moons and locations on different planets. These would be used for providing fuel, entertainment and information for the troops, as well as passengers, and for generating substantial income for whoever owns them.
Colonies in space
That, in turn, would make them grow and evolve from mainly strategic structures into settlements. This particular scenario would require the Space Force to employ small and agile space fighter planes, both manned and unmanned, whose job would be to accompany and protect larger and slower transport vehicles. Those transports would carry colonists, supplies and tourists to locations in space, and protecting them would be vital. Once established, settlements and military installations would have to be able to fend for themselves by employing both passive (minefields) and active (cannon installations, automated sentries, etc.) defenses.
Once a war inevitably explodes between the space nations, it would be fought on a new, interplanetary level, which would involve ultra-long range weapons, such as laser cannons, and heavy, long-range missiles that would fire from one planet to another, bringing havoc and misery to the new space age. After initial hostilities subsided and only space dust remained, the Space Force would have the somber task of helping to relocate refugees to their new homes on another planet, or a distant, uncharted asteroid.

More at: https://www.morningstar.com/news/market-watch/TDJNMW_20180618372/update-this-is-what-the-us-militarys-space-force-could-look-like.html

shakey1
06-19-2018, 05:49 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-t2n_jk1QM

EBounding
06-19-2018, 06:49 AM
... or, "Hey! This is a great way to Waste Money and make people think they are safe from the Terrible Secrets of Space!".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E0ot9iJm_k

Pak Chooie Unf

I think the last time I saw this was at least 15 years ago.

The Rebel Poet
06-19-2018, 11:44 AM
The Air Farce didn't

A1S8:
1: The Congress shall have Power.......

12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
13: To provide and maintain a Navy;
14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;


It is a space army or navy.

What it should need is an act of Congress.

This specifically says land force.

Zippyjuan
06-19-2018, 11:57 AM
Voyager sent linguistic messages in all human languages.

Assuming that they know how to operate a record player and have one. Box set was finally released for humans to purchase last year. https://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/you-can-finally-buy-a-copy-of-the-voyager-golden-record-1820774319 $98 for golden colored vinyl with book or $55 for the CD set.

Zippyjuan
06-19-2018, 12:32 PM
Trump also proposed this in May: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?521849-Trump-Administration-seriously-thinking-about-adding-Space-Force-to-military

Zippyjuan
06-19-2018, 12:42 PM
https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/trumps-space-force-order-need-congressional-action


Trump’s Space Force Order Would Need Congressional Action

President Donald Trump on Monday ordered the Pentagon to create a new service branch dedicated to military operations in space.

“I’m hereby directing the Department of Defense and Pentagon to immediately begin the process necessary to establish a Space Force as the sixth branch of the armed forces,” Trump said at the White House, indicating that the proposed service would be completely separate from the other five existing services.

Following Trump’s remarks, the White House separately issued a memorandum on space traffic, which did not mention Space Force.

Trump’s directive comes almost a year after the House passed its version of the fiscal 2018 defense authorization act, which would have required the Pentagon to establish a “Space Corps” but still within the Department of the Air Force. The provision was ultimately stripped out of the bill during negotiations with the Senate and replaced with a provision demanding a report from the Pentagon on the efficacy of a Space Corps.

Despite being commander in chief of the armed forces, Trump will need Congress’s help to establish a new space service.

“The president can’t create a new military service on his own,” said Todd Harrison, director of the aerospace security project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. “There’s going to have to be legislation.”

Legislation would be necessary, for instance, to move authorities from existing service branches to Space Force. Currently, the Navy, Army and Air Force all conduct some space operations, which presumably would become Space Force’s responsibility. Space Force could also need legislation to create new positions and manpower policies for the service branch. And no Pentagon entity can operate without congressionally appropriated funding.

“We are going to have the Air Force and we are going to have a Space Force,” he said. “Separate but equal.”

Members of Congress from both parties who have been resistant to the Space Force idea from its conception spent Monday reminding the president that Space Force must first go through Capitol Hill before launching at the Pentagon.

“Establishing a service branch requires congressional action,” Rep. Michael R. Turner, who chairs the House Armed Services Subcommittee on Tactical Air and Land Forces, said in a statement. “We still don’t know what a Space Force would do, who is going to be in it, or how much is it going to cost.”

The Ohio Republican was the chief opponent of Space Corps last year in the House and was instrumental in demanding from the Pentagon a report on the need for a Space Corps.

“The congressionally mandated report evaluating a Space Force to answer those questions is due in August,” Turner said. “After we get the report that we required as a legislative body and the President signed off on, then this issue can be appropriately evaluated for what’s best for national security.”

Because Trump needs Congress to establish Space Force, his announcement effectively orders the Pentagon — which has pushed back on the Space Corps proposal at every turn — to draw up plans for the service.



More at link.

oyarde
06-19-2018, 01:08 PM
The air force of course should never have been separated from the Army where they could get some real supervision . Everyone knows this

Swordsmyth
06-19-2018, 01:51 PM
This specifically says land force.
It says "land and naval forces", the air force operates from the land and so will the space force.

Swordsmyth
06-19-2018, 01:53 PM
The air force of course should never have been separated from the Army where they could get some real supervision . Everyone knows this
Their primary job is supporting the army but they wanted to concentrate on the low yield strategic bombing so they campaigned to be let loose of the army so it couldn't order them to do their job.

RonZeplin
06-19-2018, 03:47 PM
https://youtu.be/-e94VxlnR-E

Marenco
06-19-2018, 06:22 PM
The Sequel:

Team America in Space...

heavenlyboy34
06-19-2018, 07:28 PM
The air force of course should never have been separated from the Army where they could get some real supervision . Everyone knows this

Their primary job is supporting the army but they wanted to concentrate on the low yield strategic bombing so they campaigned to be let loose of the army so it couldn't order them to do their job.

ooooo, I sense an army-air force pissing match ready to break out in here any moment.... :D :cool:

Swordsmyth
06-19-2018, 07:46 PM
ooooo, I sense an army-air force pissing match ready to break out in here any moment.... :D :cool:

If we can get the Navy and Marine Air wings in on it we might have some real fun.

The Rebel Poet
06-20-2018, 01:28 AM
https://www.treubigshow.com/upload/images/imgupload/1063.jpg?eUFX4C7Y3A6VEDWwnLcQIMxk2

Brian4Liberty
06-25-2018, 05:16 PM
1011382417838358528
https://twitter.com/AdamantAnarchy/status/1011382417838358528

phill4paul
06-26-2018, 07:16 AM
Had a progressive revisionist try to tell me that the Apollo program had nothing to do with the Cold War, Gagarin's flight and the failed Bay of Pigs invasion. Lol.

Madison320
06-26-2018, 08:10 AM
Fascinating . I expected all along they would take the stolen tax dollars and use them to fund to take things from space that nobody would protest. I have been expecting this since Ike left office . He was the last president to not spend more than revenue in a fiscal year, that will hold true until utter collapse and a real money replaces the old paper currency .

I'm sure the Chinese are going to be thrilled to loan us more money for this.

Swordsmyth
06-28-2018, 08:43 PM
https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/2018-06-28_13-53-46.jpg?itok=ADyuODVj

Swordsmyth
08-09-2018, 03:04 PM
Mike Pence, the US vice president, has announced plans to create a standalone “Space Force” by 2020, becoming the sixth branch of America's military (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/22/space-force-donald-trumps-announcement-sixth-branch-armed-forces/).
Mr Pence said the “time has come" for America to “prepare for the next battlefield” and secure America’s “dominance” among the stars.


Mr Pence said in a speech on Thursday: "Now the time has come to write the next great chapter in the history of our armed forces, to prepare for the next battlefield where America's best and bravest will be called to deter and defeat a new generation of threats to our people, to our nation.”
He warned: "China and Russia have been conducting highly sophisticated on-orbit activities that could enable them to maneuver their satellites into close proximity of ours, posing unprecedented new dangers to our space systems.”
At the same time a plan was submitted to Congress explaining the Trump administration’s proposals for creating Space Force.


There are currently five branches to the US armed forces: The Air Force, Army, Coast Guard, Marine Corps, and Navy. Space Force would become the sixth.
The first step would be creating a US Space Command by the end of the year. The Trump administration would then seek funding and the legal approval to create a standalone military department next year.
Congress has the ultimate sign-off - meaning that the US president alone cannot create Space Force. The proposals are likely to trigger a political battle on Capitol Hill.

More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-administration-calls-apos-space-183322788.html

Anti Globalist
08-09-2018, 03:57 PM
Will this space force be able to use light sabers?

Origanalist
08-09-2018, 04:00 PM
Will this space force be able to use light sabers?

My guess would be death rays.

rpfocus
08-09-2018, 04:19 PM
http://nightflight.com/wp-content/uploads/DARTH-TRUMP-1.jpg
https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.219078998.8763/flat,800x800,070,f.jpg

Swordsmyth
08-09-2018, 04:28 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu81ajh35qY

dude58677
08-09-2018, 04:44 PM
They put the Marine Corps under the Navy to evade the 2 year limit on appropriations for armies.

You can divide your armies by area or by focus, the difference is all but nonexistent.

The founders were against large standing armies and that is one of the reasons the second amendment was put it.

CCTelander
08-09-2018, 04:48 PM
My guess would be death rays.


It's Trump. You're thinking WAY too small. Think death STAR.

Swordsmyth
08-09-2018, 04:48 PM
The founders were against large standing armies and that is one of the reasons the second amendment was put it.
Some of the founders were for standing armies, that is why they authorized a 2-year budget as a compromise, the Marine Corps was then built up under the navy as a way around the limit, it was unnecessary however because the Army budget kept getting approved every two years anyway.

Anti Globalist
08-09-2018, 04:52 PM
My guess would be death rays.
Hopefully they don't turn into a Death Star.

Origanalist
08-09-2018, 04:57 PM
https://gab.ai/tv/watch/25634

dude58677
08-09-2018, 05:03 PM
Some of the founders were for standing armies, that is why they authorized a 2-year budget as a compromise, the Marine Corps was then built up under the navy as a way around the limit, it was unnecessary however because the Army budget kept getting approved every two years anyway.

That kind of thinking is why there was once a military draft and the second amendment is the limitation to the “power to raise armies”. Why can’t you just admit this is one area where you disagree with Donald Trump on?

Swordsmyth
08-09-2018, 05:10 PM
That kind of thinking is why there was once a military draft and the second amendment is the limitation to the “power to raise armies”. Why can’t you just admit this is one area where you disagree with Donald Trump on?
I have no idea what you are talking about, I do disagree with him and I never said otherwise but if he gets an act of Congress to create it it will be Constitutional, it will need to have a budget limited to 2 years at a time as well, I don't know if the Air Force has budgets that exceed 2 years or not but it shouldn't either.

I also think the 2 year limit is pointless and should be eliminated by an amendment.

dude58677
08-09-2018, 05:17 PM
I have no idea what you are talking about, I do disagree with him and I never said otherwise but if he gets an act of Congress to create it it will be Constitutional, it will need to have a budget limited to 2 years at a time as well, I don't know if the Air Force has budgets that exceed 2 years or not but it shouldn't either.

I also think the 2 year limit is pointless and should be eliminated by an amendment.

If the populace is well armed which it is under the second amendment then it is NOT necessary and proper to have a large standing army.

Swordsmyth
08-09-2018, 05:27 PM
If the populace is well armed which it is under the second amendment then it is NOT necessary and proper to have a large standing army.

I didn't ever say it was, but a small one is required to be the backbone of your forces and to train the militia.

dude58677
08-09-2018, 05:33 PM
I didn't ever say it was, but a small one is required to be the backbone of your forces and to train the militia.

Ok, there should be an army just not a large massive army or armies.

kpitcher
08-09-2018, 09:46 PM
TWO WORDS
Robert Heinlein
STAR TREK
Babylon Five
DOCTOR WHO
Bad examples for anything dealing with Trump :

Heinlein mocked nationalism
Star Trek would be called socialism
Bab 5 is all about diplomacy and working together. UN in space
Dr Who.. maybe he could go back a few elections and get Ron elected to save us all

timosman
08-09-2018, 10:10 PM
1027611384966787072

Aratus
08-09-2018, 11:30 PM
Bad examples for anything dealing with Trump :

Heinlein mocked nationalism
Star Trek would be called socialism
Bab 5 is all about diplomacy and working together. UN in space
Dr Who.. maybe he could go back a few elections and get Ron elected to save us all

It looks to me that MIKE PENCE is on board with all this!!!

Swordsmyth
08-11-2018, 09:44 PM
Popularly derided by critics from the Mainstream and Alternative Medias as a delusional dream of a megalomaniac president, Trump’s Space Force is actually an initiative to be reckoned with and poses the highest degree of strategic threat to Russia and China.
Most of the world mocked Trump after he proposed (https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/18/17475466/trump-space-force-announcement-national-space-council) the creation of a US Space Force earlier this year, but this idea isn’t a laughing matter for Russia and China, who stand to have their existing strategic edge over America undercut by Washington’s efforts to neutralize their game-changing hypersonic missile capabilities (http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/11177/heres-how-hypersonic-weapons-could-completely-change-the-face-of-warfare) through a combination of space-based sensors and interceptors.
General John Hyten (https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/smd/2018/08/07/hyten-to-address-russian-and-chinese-missile-threats-its-all-about-the-sensors/) – the commander of US Strategic Command and therefore the country’s most important point man for nuclear warfare – and General Samuel Greaves (https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/smd/2018/08/08/mda-director-provides-rough-sketch-of-possible-space-based-missile-defense-sensor-layer/) – the Missile Defense Agency Director – both spoke at the Space and Missile Defense Symposium on Wednesday about the need to concentrate on improving the US’ military capabilities in space.
Some of the highlights of Hyten’s speech are as follows:

“The most important thing to do in the missile defense business is making sure you can see and characterize the threat. If you can’t see and characterize the threat, I don’t care what kind of shooter you have, there is nothing you can do about it. So the most important thing is, you look at all the threats that are coming together, hypersonics, etc., is that we have to be able to see that threat.

If you can see it early, you can kill it early. Driving that equation to the left has huge operational advantages because to actually shoot down a missile that somebody launched that comes back down on their head, do you think they are going to shoot another one? I don’t think so. They are not going to shoot another one because it’s just going to come right back down on their head and so they stop shooting. Isn’t that the whole point?

There is not enough islands in the worlds to build radars on to see all the threats and be able to characterize the threats. You just can’t get there from here, so the only place to go and do that is a place where the U.S. is actually strongest and technology is there to do it and that is into space. We have to go into space.”
Greaves’ speech was more technical but the prime takeaway is that he talked about DARPA’s “Blackjack (https://spacenews.com/darpa-to-begin-new-effort-to-build-military-constellations-in-low-earth-orbit/)” program as a pertinent solution to the US’ space sensor needs. This secret project seeks to create a constellation of satellites (https://spacenews.com/u-s-would-need-a-mega-constellation-to-counter-chinas-hypersonic-weapons/) in low Earth orbit that Space News described as “providing global persistent coverage for military operations” and “replacing existing constellations that could be targeted by enemies with more resilient systems that would be easier to reconstitute if they came under electronic or kinetic attack.”


In other words, the Pentagon wants to apply the theoretical basics of network-centric warfare (http://www.kinection.com/ncoic/ncw_origin_future.pdf) to space warfare in order to maximize the US military’s physical and operational resilience in this domain.
It’s not just all about defense like Greaves would make it seem, however, since Hyten’s forward-looking vision that the US could one day “actually shoot down a missile that somebody launched that comes back down on their head” insinuates that the “Blackjack” constellation will have offensive capabilities as well.
While scant details have been revealed about the shadowy Space Force, a few important points can be extrapolated upon in order to get a better idea of how this forthcoming branch of the US Armed Forces will operate. The publicly acknowledged “Blackjack” satellites would clearly be used to detect hypersonic missile launches, while the secretive X-37B (https://www.space.com/25275-x37b-space-plane.html) will probably be tasked with intercepting them.
Not much is known about the X-37B but a lot has been speculated about it, including its possible role as the vanguard vehicle for executing the US’ “Prompt Global Strike (https://fas.org/sgp/crs/nuke/R41464.pdf)” (PGS) strategy that aims to hit any place on the planet within 30 (https://nypost.com/2010/04/25/a-weapon-that-can-strike-anywhere-on-earth-in-30-minutes/)–60 (https://carnegieendowment.org/files/cpgs.pdf) minutes of the decision being made.
It’s therefore conceivable that Hyten had this weapon in mind when he spoke about his dream of the US being able to “actually shoot down a missile that somebody launched that comes back down on their head”, seeing as how it could be paired with the “Blackjack” constellation to give it the “eyes” and “ears” that it needs in order to do this impressive feat.
For as solid of a strategy as it may sound, the weakness in Trump’s Space Force is that it’s vulnerable to anti-satellite weapons (ASAT), cyberwarfare (hacking), and electronic warfare.
While the latter two can’t exactly be countered through any physical means, the first countermeasure could be thwarted through the deployment of tiny X-37B-like drones (possibly stored in a X-37B or other kind of “mothership”) to intercept ASATs that are targeting the US’ launch vehicles or sensor systems, resorting to “swarming (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/44261536_Basic_Concepts_and_Anatomy_of_Swarm_Intel ligence_and_Its_Roles_in_Today_and_Future_Network_ Centric_Environments)” techniques to overwhelm or distract the incoming munition(s). Suffice to say, this would further contribute to the physical militarization of space and lay the basis for the creation of an entire “military ecosystem” there.

More at: https://www.globalresearch.ca/trumps-space-force-is-about-to-take-off-in-a-huge-way-strategic-threat-to-russia-and-china/5650143

r3volution 3.0
08-11-2018, 09:51 PM
$$$$$$
$$$$$$
$$$$$$

TheCount
08-11-2018, 10:05 PM
$$$$$$
$$$$$$
$$$$$$

Secretary of the Army: Raytheon
Under Secretary of the Army: Lockheed Martin

Secretary of the Navy: Goldman Sachs
Under Secretary of the Navy: PriceWaterhouseCoopers

Secretary of the Air Force: Politician
Under Secretary of the Air Force: SAIC

r3volution 3.0
08-11-2018, 10:07 PM
Secretary of the Army: Raytheon
Under Secretary of the Army: Lockheed Martin

Secretary of the Navy: Goldman Sachs
Under Secretary of the Navy: PriceWaterhouseCoopers

Secretary of the Air Force: Politician
Under Secretary of the Air Force: SAIC

Why do you hate America?

...must be one of them liberal a-rabs...

TheCount
08-11-2018, 10:09 PM
Why do you hate America?

I don't want to hate America but I'm controlled by the collective decisions of my ancestors.

r3volution 3.0
08-11-2018, 10:16 PM
I don't want to hate America but I'm controlled by the collective decisions of my ancestors.

That makes sense.

Spend on.

Aratus
08-12-2018, 10:34 PM
Will this space force be able to use light sabers?


My guess would be death rays.


It's Trump. You're thinking WAY too small. Think death STAR.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Swordsmyth
09-19-2018, 09:08 PM
Colorado Republican Rep. Mike Coffman had already decided to lead opposition in the U.S. House to President Donald Trump’s “Space Force” proposal. (https://www.defensenews.com/space/2018/08/09/space-force-will-be-6th-military-branch-by-2020-vice-president-pence-announces/) But a widely leaked Air Force estimate (https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/air-force-association/2018/09/17/air-force-secretary-space-force-will-come-with-13b-in-added-costs/) that creating a space force as a new military service would cost $13 billion over the first five years only stiffened Coffman’s resolve. Coffman, who chairs the House Armed Services Committee’s Military Personnel Subcommittee and sits on its Strategic Forces Subcommittee, was sure other lawmakers agree with him.


“A really bad idea is a ‘Department of Space,’” Coffman said in an interview Tuesday, adding, “I feel confident we can block this. The president will not have the votes.”


Clouding things further, the overall price tag may not be realistic, according to Todd Harrison, a space expert with the Center for Strategic and International Studies.


“This estimate is way too high. It’s as if the Air Force is trying to sabotage the idea by making it seem much broader and more expensive than it really would be,” Harrison said, who added that part of the $13 billion is actually earmarked for U.S. Space Command.


With the $13 billion cost estimate, opponents on Capitol Hill can make it an argument against Pentagon waste. To boot, Coffman said he can point to the initial opposition from Defense Secretary Jim Mattis and Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson, who asked for a chance to address the problem better with the existing organization. (Both have since fallen behind the president.)


Though HASC Strategic Forces Subcommittee Chair Mike Rogers, R-Ala., is a vocal proponent of Space Force, a split among Republicans could be deadly to the proposal. That’s especially so because HASC ranking Democrat Adam Smith, of Washington state, in recent days came out as a strong opponent.


Meanwhile, key Republicans in the Senate seemed open-minded but lukewarm on Tuesday.


Senate Appropriations Committee Chairman Richard Shelby, R-Ala., had yet to see the Air Force estimate. He did have a lot of questions and called the $13 billion figure, "a lot of money."


"We'll evaluate it all. We have to look at the cost, purpose, what would it do, will this add another layer of bureaucracy, will it add another layer of security," Shelby said. "What does this do to the Air Force, does it strengthen it, weaken it, create another agency? They've got some explaining to do, I believe."


Shelby was deferential to the Senate Armed Services Committee which has yet to hold a single hearing on this presidential priority. On Tuesday, Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Jim Inhofe, R-Okla., would not commit to holding hearings on the idea.


Inhofe was initially skeptical of a sixth branch and has yet to take a strong position since Trump threw his weight behind the idea. Last month, he said he was waiting to hear the cost (https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2018/08/28/inhofe-wants-to-see-the-price-tag-on-trumps-space-force/) after Mattis appealed to him in a recent meeting.

More at: https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2018/09/18/new-space-force-price-tag-fuels-skepticism-on-capitol-hill/

TheCount
09-22-2018, 06:47 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnUUl-OXoAAEhiR.jpg:large

Swordsmyth
12-18-2018, 02:14 PM
President Donald Trump has launched the Pentagon’s new Space Command. It’s an effort to better organize and advance the military’s vast operations in space that could cost as much as $800 million over the next five years.
Trump signed the one-page memorandum Tuesday authorizing the Department of Defense to create the new command.
The goal is to set up a command to oversee and organize space operations, accelerate technical advances and find more effective ways to defend U.S. assets in space, including the vast constellations of satellites that American forces rely on for navigation, communications and surveillance.

More at: https://apnews.com/dab5e26c7c304399a862996c61106333?utm_medium=AP&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow

Anti Globalist
12-18-2018, 07:04 PM
Trump better build a Death Star.

enhanced_deficit
12-18-2018, 07:06 PM
Will space force be allowed to have "bump stocks"?

CCTelander
12-18-2018, 07:08 PM
Personally, I'm really hoping for something like F-Troop with space suits. That would be frickin' hilarious. At least get a few luaghs out of it.

Origanalist
12-18-2018, 07:08 PM
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSKi5CuSd9x2d8ClyxrnVe5IQTwZbOh4 fLLsHyL2LbEi7zEObWr2A