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AuH20
05-18-2018, 08:18 AM
Talk about Jumping the Shark for the protocommies. Now if the mainstream Right could only backtrack & examine why MS-13 exists.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9yZl3DzuSc

timosman
05-18-2018, 08:24 AM
Talk about Jumping the Shark for the protocommies. Now if the mainstream Right could only backtrack & examine why MS-13 exists.

Fast and furious?

AuH20
05-18-2018, 08:30 AM
Fast and furious?

Thank our friends at the State Department.

https://www.rt.com/usa/417537-very-american-origins-ms13/

timosman
05-18-2018, 08:35 AM
Thank our friends at the State Department.

https://www.rt.com/usa/417537-very-american-origins-ms13/

Examining history and understanding the background of an issue is not a politician job. We have a problem and we need to do something NOW! This strategy is guaranteed not to fail.

pcosmar
05-18-2018, 08:51 AM
Fast and furious?

School of the Americas.

http://www.soaw.org/presente/content/view/50/74/lang,en/

r3volution 3.0
05-18-2018, 10:16 AM
Opposing the attempt by people like the OP to paint all immigrants as gangsters is not defending the gangsters.

It's no different than opposing the "blame all whites" rhetoric of black nationalists that crops up whenever a white person kills a black person.

fisharmor
05-18-2018, 11:22 AM
Opposing the attempt by people like the OP to paint all immigrants as gangsters is not defending the gangsters.

It's no different than opposing the "blame all whites" rhetoric of black nationalists that crops up whenever a white person kills a black person.

IOU a rep.

I am really not sure how to put this in a way that makes it more clear.

The problem is NOT immigration. The problem is NOT MS-13.

The problem is LAW ENFORCEMENT.

MS-13 exists in this country because law enforcement allows it to. The people whose job everyone thinks it is to do something about this are the same people who cower outside of a high school while a pasty, unbalanced, untrained, drugged up teenager murders his classmates.

The people who are "supposed to" be doing something about this are the ones that have multiple officers confront and then strangle to death men who are doing no harm to anyone.

What's the realistic percentage of illegal immigrants who belong to MS-13? It's maximum 10,000 out of 20 million - roughly 0.05%.

What's the realistic percentage of cops who are completely unwilling to confront the problem? News flash - it's 100%.

So because policing is a completely failed model of law enforcement - which is abundantly evident given the fact that MS-13 even exists here - we're going to try to stop the other 99.95% of "illegal" immigrants from coming here - by tasking the same failed police model with making that work?

There is ZERO difference between stopping people at the border on the miniscule chance they might end up being part of a gang, and kicking over little girls' lemonade stands or stopping churches from feeding homeless people.

Both are "preventative" measures. Both belong in the garbage and for the exact same reason. They DO NOT WORK.

It would be bad enough if you copsuckers were just preventing the root problem from being addressed. It would be bad enough if all this was, was making excuses for the fact that cops are an unnecessary and violent burden we have to bear who do nothing to mitigate problems like MS-13.

But that's not all you're doing. You're actively calling for the root problem to be exacerbated. You're calling for an expansion of preventative law enforcement.

fisharmor
05-18-2018, 11:26 AM
Here's another one - there is also zero distinction between these two statements.

"We need to stop people at the border so they don't become criminals."
"We need to pass gun control because people are breaking the gun laws we already have."

Raginfridus
05-18-2018, 11:37 AM
Opposing the attempt by people like the OP to paint all immigrants as gangsters is not defending the gangsters.

It's no different than opposing the "blame all whites" rhetoric of black nationalists that crops up whenever a white person kills a black person.

Here's another one - there is also zero distinction between these two statements.

"We need to stop people at the border so they don't become criminals."
"We need to pass gun control because people are breaking the gun laws we already have."



The op didn't claim that. Read it. Watched the vid. Nothing about all immigrants are gangsters. Actually, timo and goldwater say law enforcement - the just us dept - are to blame for MS-13.

*sorry, State Dept.

pcosmar
05-18-2018, 11:42 AM
The problem is LAW ENFORCEMENT.

MS-13 exists in this country because law enforcement allows it to.

Key quote,,
More people need to get this..

MS13 was created by Law Enforcement. By the US Government..
Trained by the US Government.

This is Ollie North crap coming home.

edit to note,,
Fusion Centers in this country(every state) coordinate the gang activity.

prove me wrong

dannno
05-18-2018, 11:47 AM
Opposing the attempt by people like the OP to paint all immigrants as gangsters is not defending the gangsters.

It's no different than opposing the "blame all whites" rhetoric of black nationalists that crops up whenever a white person kills a black person.

Nobody is trying to paint all immigrants as gangsters.

Trump was asked about MS-13, he replied that they are animals. Trump never said that all immigrants are animals, he never said all immigrants are gangsters. Only people with TDS believe the bullshit you are spewing.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKtjaXoAjw0

fisharmor
05-18-2018, 11:49 AM
The op didn't claim that. Read it. Watched the vid. Nothing about all immigrants are gangsters. Actually, timo and goldwater say law enforcement - the just us dept - are to blame for MS-13.

*sorry, State Dept.

I read the article mentioned below, and it does offer some nuance that's largely absent from the discussion.


Thank our friends at the State Department.

https://www.rt.com/usa/417537-very-american-origins-ms13/

However, in the Video at the top of this page, Carlson says:

The media tell you every day that every immigrant, legal or not is a future brain surgeon or tech company founder: therefore immigration controls are unnecessary. If they admit that MS-13 is actually bad and must be stopped, they'd have to also admit that when some countries send their people here, they aren't sending their best. A lot of immigrants are great, for sure: some of them are rapists, though... some of them join MS-13, that's just true. They're not all the same because people aren't all the same. That's the point of our immigration law. They're not the same. We should sort the good from the bad.

The rest of the video after that, from 3:42 on, is pro-immigration claptrap.

This is the sentiment echoed on this forum regularly by people who are responding on this thread. And that is what I was responding to when I pointed out factually that there is no inherent difference between immigration law and any other preventative law enforcement measure.

fisharmor
05-18-2018, 11:51 AM
This is Ollie North crap coming home.

And now he's the man in charge of "making sure we keep our gun rights".
This country looks more and more like an assylum as time goes on.
I have to keep telling myself that it has always been this way, and the only difference is that now they can't stop us seeing it.

fisharmor
05-18-2018, 11:53 AM
I really doubt North would have much to say about states that have a policy of prosecuting people who kill MS-13 members invading their homes.

fisharmor
05-18-2018, 11:55 AM
Trump was asked about MS-13, he replied that they are animals. Trump never said that all immigrants are animals, he never said all immigrants are gangsters. Only people with TDS believe the bullshit you are spewing.

We get it, Trump got "Pope Benedicted". He didn't say that.
That should be the point, but Tucker goes too far in using that lie as an anti-immigration talking point.

fisharmor
05-18-2018, 12:01 PM
Ok Danno... I'll marginally publicize (and paraphrase) your rep comment to keep the discussion going.
I can see that r3v made an accusation that was unfounded. Nobody here is calling them all criminals.

I think r3v might agree with this sentiment though: Whether you're using the criminal element to demonize the people themselves, or using it to demonize open borders, is kind of immaterial. Both statements exist in the same logic bucket. I myself conflate them regularly, but based on your feedback, I will aim not to in the future.

dannno
05-18-2018, 12:02 PM
I read the article mentioned below, and it does offer some nuance that's largely absent from the discussion.



However, in the Video at the top of this page, Carlson says:
[/B]

The rest of the video after that, from 3:42 on, is pro-immigration claptrap.

This is the sentiment echoed on this forum regularly by people who are responding on this thread. And that is what I was responding to when I pointed out factually that there is no inherent difference between immigration law and any other preventative law enforcement measure.


I just thought of an analogy may help you understand where we are coming from.

You made the point that stopping people from crossing the border so they don't commit crimes is like putting gun control in place so people don't commit gun crimes.

Imagine if we had hundreds of state and local municipalities in this country who, instead of giving out welfare, gave away guns and ammo that contained depleted uranium and the bullets exploded the depleted uranium everywhere. Not a weapon for defensive purposes.

Already, parts of the country are being destroyed and becoming uninhabitable thanks to this government program that of course needs to be stamped out but unfortunately is actually nearly impossible to stamp out because it is distributed throughout all these individual smaller government entities (why? can't tell you.. it's irrational.. but so is socialism.. so bare with me)..

So a President comes in and says we need to ban these guns and ammo and destroy them because it is going to completely destroy the country in the longrun.

Of course the "libertarian" answer is to end the government programs giving away the guns and ammo that contain depleted uranium. But if you can't do that, are there not other measures that can be taken that are sub-optimal but that lead to a more desired outcome?

Of course the "libertarian" answer is to get rid of socialism, not close off the border. But ending socialism is not in the cards, and we have found there are other measures that are sub-optimal but that will lead to a more desired outcome, which means more liberty, in the future.

GunnyFreedom
05-18-2018, 12:11 PM
997190886009245696

lol

997529964600811526

fisharmor
05-18-2018, 12:12 PM
I just thought of an analogy may help you understand where we are coming from.

You made the point that stopping people from crossing the border so they don't commit crimes is like putting gun control in place so people don't commit gun crimes.

Imagine if we had hundreds of state and local municipalities in this country who, instead of giving out welfare, gave away guns and ammo that contained depleted uranium and the bullets exploded the depleted uranium everywhere. Not a weapon for defensive purposes.

Already, parts of the country are being destroyed and becoming uninhabitable thanks to this government program that of course needs to be stamped out but unfortunately is actually nearly impossible to stamp out because it is distributed throughout all these individual smaller government entities.

So a President comes in and says we need to ban these guns and ammo and destroy them because it is going to completely destroy the country in the longrun.

Of course the "libertarian" answer is to end the government programs giving away the guns. But if you can't do that, are there not other measures that can be taken that are sub-optimal but that lead to a more desired outcome?

Of course the "libertarian" answer is to get rid of socialism, not close off the border. But ending socialism is not in the cards, and we have found there are other measures that are sub-optimal but that will lead to a more desired outcome, which means more liberty, in the future.

Yes there are other options. I'll say that I think the JBP solution would fit here: "Clean up your damned room".

I think the FSP has the right idea, but is lacking in execution details. I think if libertarians could just pick a county, one county, and actually have an agenda, that would make a meaningful difference.

Something like step 1: all previous law enforcement agencies will be abolished, and a new one formed which will eschew professionals, be purely reactionary, respect human rights, recognize crimes as only those actions which have victims, obstruct superior agencies who are not like-minded, and above all, not fuck around at all when dealing with actual criminals.

I think MS-13 wouldn't choose to operate in a county where there's such a thing as a wanted poster that says "subject has refused to answer 5 previous warrants for violent crime, public is advised to shoot on sight. $10,000 reward, tax free."

As we've seen in this thread, the larger entities are the origin of the problem. Smaller entities CAN be the solution.

pcosmar
05-18-2018, 12:16 PM
I just thought of an analogy may help you understand where we are coming from.


Nope,, doesn't .

it is a lot of fear mongering as an excuse to ditch principles.

and I ,,along with several others, am curious about your conversion from libertarian to Trumpa Lumpa.

Inexplicable is the best descriptor,, but curious,

AuH20
05-18-2018, 12:18 PM
The left has been tricked into defending the most vile subset of the immigration Caravan in the Form of Ms-13. That's the irony in all this. They have rushed to defend a predatory organization that disproportionately preys upon immigrants and others at the lower end of the socio-economic spectrum.

dannno
05-18-2018, 12:24 PM
Nope,, doesn't .

it is a lot of fear mongering as an excuse to ditch principles.

and I ,,along with several others, am curious about your conversion from libertarian to Trumpa Lumpa.

Inexplicable is the best descriptor,, but curious,

Well I posted about 120 hours of Molyneux videos that explained it in great detail, but most people just said they were too long to watch.

Basically I'm anti-establishment.

Think about it. You are taking CNN's side every time. I'm arguing against CNN. Not to mention neocons, you are arguing on the same side as neocons and the establishment. How can you argue against that?

timosman
05-18-2018, 12:26 PM
The left has been tricked into defending the most vile subset of the immigration Caravan in the Form of Ms-13. That's the irony in all this. They have rushed to defend a predatory organization that disproportionately preys upon immigrants and others at the lower end of the socio-economic spectrum.

Not quite so. There is hope MS-13 members can become upstanding citizens if we spend enough money on them. Trump supporters on the other hand ....

dannno
05-18-2018, 12:43 PM
Yes there are other options. I'll say that I think the JBP solution would fit here: "Clean up your damned room".

I think the FSP has the right idea, but is lacking in execution details. I think if libertarians could just pick a county, one county, and actually have an agenda, that would make a meaningful difference.

Something like step 1: all previous law enforcement agencies will be abolished, and a new one formed which will eschew professionals, be purely reactionary, respect human rights, recognize crimes as only those actions which have victims, obstruct superior agencies who are not like-minded, and above all, not fuck around at all when dealing with actual criminals.

I think MS-13 wouldn't choose to operate in a county where there's such a thing as a wanted poster that says "subject has refused to answer 5 previous warrants for violent crime, public is advised to shoot on sight. $10,000 reward, tax free."

As we've seen in this thread, the larger entities are the origin of the problem. Smaller entities CAN be the solution.


Did you watch Wild Wild Country?

They were fairly libertarian, but the leader of the community was kind of a psychopath.. they went out and built their own community in the middle of nowhere in Oregon in the early 80s, they even built a damn with hydroelectric power to power their community. Then the town tried to make them tear it all down over land-use, so they took over the town government. Then they had to contend with the county, so they bussed in homeless people from all over the country so they could get enough votes to take over the county. There was terrorism, possible false flags, attempted murder of politicians, wow, crazy drama!!! On top of it all they were essentially a sex religion/cult (they just had more free market, entrepreneurial tendencies)

It would be interesting to try and do something like that tho.

pcosmar
05-18-2018, 12:43 PM
Well I posted about 120 hours of Molyneux videos that explained it in great detail,

ah, well that might explain it..

couldn't stand that idiot years ago.

dannno
05-18-2018, 12:46 PM
ah, well that might explain it..

couldn't stand that idiot years ago.

Ya, I hate when people constantly argue for the free market, against the police state, against all of our foreign wars of aggression, against the federal reserve, against gun control. Those people bother me to no end.

We need to make sure to talk as much shit on those people as possible.

Maybe we should start an anti-Molyneux website to tell people about what a horrible person he is for arguing for freedom constantly.

Raginfridus
05-18-2018, 12:49 PM
Breaking:

https://i.imgur.com/qUYAQ2q.png


Ya, I hate when people constantly argue for the free market, against the police state, against all of our foreign wars of aggression, against the federal reserve, against gun control. Those people bother me to no end.

We need to make sure to talk as much $#@! on those people as possible.

Maybe we should start an anti-Molyneux website to tell people about what a horrible person he is for arguing for freedom constantly.That already exists. Rev3.0 has a link.

dannno
05-18-2018, 12:50 PM
All kidding aside, years ago many people did not like Molyneux because he was atheist and argued against spanking children.

I can't control people's sexual fetishes for children, but I will say that Molyneux has done hours and hours worth of videos about how horrible atheists are in general and hours and hours of videos with people like Dr. Duke Pesta who are Christian theologists on the topic of Christianity. So his videos are themed much more pro-Christianity now than they were (I think he is agnostic now). He's still anti-spanking tho..

timosman
05-18-2018, 12:52 PM
Did you watch Wild Wild Country?

They were fairly libertarian, but the leader of the community was kind of a psychopath.. they went out and built their own community in the middle of nowhere in Oregon in the early 80s, they even built a damn with hydroelectric power to power their community. Then the town tried to make them tear it all down over land-use, so they took over the town government. Then they had to contend with the county, so they bussed in homeless people from all over the country so they could get enough votes to take over the county. There was terrorism, possible false flags, attempted murder of politicians, wow, crazy drama!!! On top of it all they were essentially a sex religion/cult (they just had more free market, entrepreneurial tendencies)

It would be interesting to try and do something like that tho.

Maybe not? You touch on an interesting aspect of the human psyche - a fear of being exploited by a psychopath. This drives everybody towards a non-psychopathic government. :cool:

pcosmar
05-18-2018, 12:55 PM
Ya, I hate when people constantly argue for the free market, against the police state, against all of our foreign wars of aggression, against the federal reserve, against gun control. Those people bother me to no end.

We need to make sure to talk as much $#@! on those people as possible.

Maybe we should start an anti-Molyneux website to tell people about what a horrible person he is for arguing for freedom constantly.

You can Suck his narcissistic dick.. He talks a lot of $hit with a few valid points thrown in for the suckers.
I can't stand to listen long enough for anything worthwhile.

sorry if it hurts your feelings,,I can't stand your boyfriend.

fisharmor
05-18-2018, 01:04 PM
What I think of when watching Steph


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_SeVyzFxA8

He does bring up some good points. He puts a lot of raw data into his vids.

dannno
05-18-2018, 01:13 PM
What I think of when watching Steph


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_SeVyzFxA8

He does bring up some good points. He puts a lot of raw data into his vids.

LOL

Swordsmyth
05-18-2018, 07:31 PM
Here's another one - there is also zero distinction between these two statements.

"We need to stop people at the border so they don't become criminals."
"We need to pass gun control because people are breaking the gun laws we already have."

Firstly the people at the border don't have a right to cross it, secondly the main reason to control immigration is politics and liberty, if we let in too many people who believe in big government we won't have a chance.

r3volution 3.0
05-18-2018, 08:26 PM
Nobody is trying to paint all immigrants as gangsters.

Well sure the current administration is.

If it weren't able to blame foreigners, how on Earth would it divert attention from its activities?

timosman
05-18-2018, 08:33 PM
Well sure the current administration is.

If it weren't able to blame foreigners, how on Earth would it divert attention from its activities?

Are you getting paid for posting this? :D

r3volution 3.0
05-18-2018, 08:36 PM
Are you getting paid for posting this? :D

Are you offering me a job?

timosman
05-18-2018, 08:43 PM
Are you offering me a job?

I am short on funding at the moment.

r3volution 3.0
05-18-2018, 08:45 PM
I am short on funding at the moment.

No worries, you go ahead and keep being a whore for the reality TV character.

It's terrific!

TheCount
05-18-2018, 08:56 PM
Talk about Jumping the Shark for the protocommies. Now if the mainstream Right could only backtrack & examine why MS-13 exists.

Uh huh.

pcosmar
05-18-2018, 09:08 PM
Well sure the current administration is.

If it weren't able to blame foreigners, how on Earth would it divert attention from its activities?

and that is "BINGO"..

and red herring stink.

add to it,,My eldest Brother was an Anchor Baby..

Mom was a Canadian hottie Ice Skating on the American side.

She is naturalized now,, but wasn't yet then..

Known a few Americans of Cuban ancestry.. some dark skinned Conchs.
Best helper I had doing windows was a Chinese girl..

I wonder how some people walk around with the fears they express here.

I hate cities,, but I always find a local bar someplace I don't belong..and meet the real people.

dannno
05-18-2018, 09:10 PM
Well sure the current administration is.

If it weren't able to blame foreigners, how on Earth would it divert attention from its activities?

They are blaming a subsection of foreigners, as has been stated multiple times. Stop being as purposely obtuse as the left.

r3volution 3.0
05-18-2018, 09:15 PM
They are blaming a subsection of foreigners, as has been stated multiple times. Stop being as purposely obtuse as the left.

The white nationalists with whom you've lately aligned yourself do not, in their basements, agree with that sentiment.

Swordsmyth
05-18-2018, 09:17 PM
The white nationalists with whom you've lately aligned yourself do not, in their basements, agree with that sentiment.

And the communists with whom you have aligned yourself about immigration don't agree with you on many things.

r3volution 3.0
05-18-2018, 09:26 PM
And the communists with whom you have aligned yourself about immigration don't agree with you on many things.

Good thing there are anti-communists such as yourself to make sure the state controls the movement of people.

Anti Globalist
05-18-2018, 09:50 PM
Democrats can destroy themselves all they want. They clearly don't give a damn.

fisharmor
05-18-2018, 10:16 PM
Firstly the people at the border don't have a right to cross it, secondly the main reason to control immigration is politics and liberty, if we let in too many people who believe in big government we won't have a chance.

I can see you don't recognize the 9th Amendment.

timosman
05-18-2018, 10:17 PM
No worries, you go ahead and keep being a whore for the reality TV character.

It's terrific!

That's what our politics always was. At least now it is way more interesting. The last guy had no energy. What's your problem anyway?

timosman
05-18-2018, 10:21 PM
Good thing there are anti-communists such as yourself to make sure the state controls the movement of people.

What an inconvenience.

Swordsmyth
05-18-2018, 10:23 PM
I can see you don't recognize the 9th Amendment.


(Amendment 9 - Unenumerated Rights)The enumeration in the Constitution (http://constitutionus.com/#constitution), of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

It doesn't say foreigners have a right to enter without permission.

TheCount
05-19-2018, 12:34 AM
It doesn't say foreigners have a right to enter without permission.

Well, if some foreigners are non-human, as both you and Trump claim, then you don't have to worry about pesky things like rights at all.

Swordsmyth
05-19-2018, 12:38 AM
Well, if some foreigners are non-human, as both you and Trump claim, then you don't have to worry about pesky things like rights at all.

I never said any such thing, DJTvsg was referring to MS-13 who behave worse than many animals, it was actually insulting to animals that he said it.

TheCount
05-19-2018, 01:20 AM
I never said any such thing, DJTvsg was referring to MS-13 who behave worse than many animals, it was actually insulting to animals that he said it.

Are MS-13 members human?

Pauls' Revere
05-19-2018, 01:43 AM
Opposing the attempt by people like the OP to paint all immigrants as gangsters is not defending the gangsters.

It's no different than opposing the "blame all whites" rhetoric of black nationalists that crops up whenever a white person kills a black person.

Few can differentiate these nuances, its hyper-propagandizing out-of-content sound bite bumper sticker publication.

spudea
05-19-2018, 06:35 AM
Are MS-13 members human?

Humans can be horrible disgusting people and can be described in many ways.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5q9lgk6KdY

AuH20
05-19-2018, 08:54 AM
Are MS-13 members human?

when they choose to not be................

pcosmar
05-19-2018, 09:25 AM
Are MS-13 members human?

Are Marines or Green Beret Human?

These guys were trained out of Ft Benning Ga.. Are snipers Human?..

These are trained soldiers being used for political purposes...


and some putzes are falling for it.

TheCount
05-19-2018, 09:27 AM
Are Marines or Green Beret Human?

These guys were trained out of Ft Benning Ga.. Are snipers Human?..

These are trained soldiers being used for political purposes...


and some putzes are falling for it.

As far as I'm aware, there isn't a political movement that considers military members subhuman.

TheCount
05-19-2018, 09:28 AM
when they choose to not be................

In other words, they're either human or subhuman, people or not people, depending on their actions?

pcosmar
05-19-2018, 09:30 AM
As far as I'm aware, there isn't a political movement that considers military members subhuman.

Then why is it a question.?

Why are MS13 (US Trained Soldiers) considered animals when others are not?

Valli6
05-19-2018, 09:52 AM
Eh. We're all animals. Most of us strive to be civil and humane - "Do unto others etc.". Sometimes we fail.
Other people strive only to be selfish violent scumbags. They deserve no respect from me.

TheCount
05-19-2018, 09:54 AM
Why are MS13 (US Trained Soldiers) considered animals when others are not?

That's a great question.

spudea
05-19-2018, 12:15 PM
That's a great question.

https://i.redd.it/epnfegtpfmy01.jpg

TheCount
05-19-2018, 12:49 PM
https://i.redd.it/epnfegtpfmy01.jpg
K?

Schifference
05-19-2018, 01:04 PM
Hasn't anyone ever heard of innocent until proven guilty? Each person is different. We cannot group these individuals together.

Swordsmyth
05-19-2018, 01:08 PM
Are MS-13 members human?
Of course.

Swordsmyth
05-19-2018, 01:11 PM
Hasn't anyone ever heard of innocent until proven guilty?
In a courtroom when on trial for a crime.


Each person is different. We cannot group these individuals together.
We can when they group together and act together.

fisharmor
05-19-2018, 02:57 PM
It doesn't say foreigners have a right to enter without permission.

I can see you don't recognize the 10th amendment.

Swordsmyth
05-19-2018, 03:03 PM
I can see you don't recognize the 10th amendment.
(Amendment 10 - Reserved Powers)The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


Article 1

Section 9. The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight

It is after 1808.

Article 4 - The States
Section 4 - Republican Government


<<Back (https://usconstitution.net/xconst_A4Sec3.html) | Table of Contents (https://usconstitution.net/xconst.html) | Next>> (https://usconstitution.net/xconst_A5.html)
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican (https://usconstitution.net/glossary.html#REPUBLIC) Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion;

More at:
Article 1 Section 9 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?513274-Article-1-Section-9)

enhanced_deficit
05-19-2018, 05:33 PM
After looking at past weeks coverage of Fox news, curious who does a better job of defending violent groups Left or Right ?

If this gang was better organized and better armed like tax payers funded IDF that killed over 100 humans of some races in last couple of weeks, will Left/Right shift stances about violent gangs?

pcosmar
05-19-2018, 05:45 PM
In a courtroom when on trial for a crime.


We can when they group together and act together.

Ollie North.

https://ustaxpayerswill.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/oliver-north-mugshot.jpg?w=864

https://img.wennermedia.com/article-leads-horizontal/rs-182980-51506774.jpg

http://hemi.nyu.edu/cuaderno/politicalperformance2004/totalitarianism/WEBSITE/images/School-of-Americas.jpg

Swordsmyth
05-19-2018, 05:49 PM
Ollie North.

https://ustaxpayerswill.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/oliver-north-mugshot.jpg?w=864

https://img.wennermedia.com/article-leads-horizontal/rs-182980-51506774.jpg

http://hemi.nyu.edu/cuaderno/politicalperformance2004/totalitarianism/WEBSITE/images/School-of-Americas.jpg
And your point is?

Jamesiv1
05-19-2018, 05:50 PM
Going to be fun to watch this episode in midterms (and 2020) come back to haunt Democrats.

1. Trump calls MS-13 'animals'
2. Dems get triggered and either 1. attack Trump for saying it, or 2. Defend MS-13
3. No sane person can believe #2
4. DJ Donald Trumpmaster D wins again.

ThePaleoLibertarian
05-19-2018, 06:16 PM
Trump has the ability to get the American left and the MSM to defend just about anything he speaks out against. It's quite remarkable. Remember when they were talking about how Kim Jong Un's sister was throwing "side-eye" and "shade" at Pence? Pushing the idea that she's some dignified independent yasss queen who ain't need no man? It was sickening.

It's like a superpower he has.

RJB
05-19-2018, 06:28 PM
Trump has the ability to get the American left and the MSM to defend just about anything he speaks out against. It's quite remarkable. Remember when they were talking about how Kim Jong Un's sister was throwing "side-eye" and "shade" at Pence? Pushing the idea that she's some dignified independent yasss queen who ain't need no man? It was sickening.

It's like a superpower he has.

Sun Tzu's Art of War was big with business men of his generation. It was all deception: attacking where the enemy is weak, and then making the enemy attack where you are strong. Just about every point that the left says he is weak at, is actually his strength. They say he can't handle pressure, but watch a hostile press briefing where he takes on a few advesarial people at once. That is where he actually thrives.

I really have no idea how intelligent Trump is but he is probably the sharpest and most quick witted politician I have ever seen.

pcosmar
05-19-2018, 06:39 PM
And your point is?

MS13 is American Made.

Both teams,, but the 'R"s had lead on this.

To pretend that these are immigrants and not political tools,,Soldiers,,Mercenaries,,,, is disingenuous.

These are Ollie Norths guys,,,,

Swordsmyth
05-19-2018, 06:41 PM
MS13 is American Made.

Both teams,, but the 'R"s had lead on this.

To pretend that these are immigrants and not political tools,,Soldiers,,Mercenaries,,,, is disingenuous.
It doesn't matter as long as you recognize they are bad and we should get rid of them and not let anymore in.
The left is defending them, I am not and DJTvsg is not.

pcosmar
05-19-2018, 06:45 PM
It doesn't matter as long as you recognize they are bad and we should get rid of them and not let anymore in.
The left is defending them, I am not and DJTvsg is not.

I'm not defending them,, only defining them correctly. They are US Veterans.. show some respect :rolleyes:

They were purpose built,, and are fulfilling their purpose.

They Grow the Police State

Swordsmyth
05-19-2018, 06:55 PM
I'm not defending them,
I never said you were.


, only defining them correctly. They are US Veterans.. show some respect :rolleyes:

They were purpose built,, and are fulfilling their purpose.

They Grow the Police State

They are foreign barbarians that need to be removed and kept out, the fact that they partially owe their existence to some of our traitors doesn't change that and is irrelevant to this thread.

pcosmar
05-19-2018, 10:14 PM
I never said you were.



They are foreign barbarians that need to be removed and kept out, the fact that they partially owe their existence to some of our traitors doesn't change that and is irrelevant to this thread.

Get rid of the creators and handlers.. and the problem will evaporate.

Swordsmyth
05-19-2018, 10:22 PM
Get rid of the creators and handlers.. and the problem will evaporate.
Not if it has taken root.

pcosmar
05-19-2018, 10:24 PM
Not if it has taken root.

That's what they say about us.

r3volution 3.0
05-19-2018, 10:57 PM
Few can differentiate these nuances, its hyper-propagandizing out-of-content sound bite bumper sticker publication.

God bless democracy

timosman
05-19-2018, 11:21 PM
Going to be fun to watch this episode in midterms (and 2020) come back to haunt Democrats.

1. Trump calls MS-13 'animals'
2. Dems get triggered and either 1. attack Trump for saying it, or 2. Defend MS-13
3. No sane person can believe #2
4. DJ Donald Trumpmaster D wins again.

It's time Mr. Trump learned how to have some class. So far, despite all of Mr. Trump's efforts, it looks like King Ralph with Johny Goodman. :cool:

timosman
05-19-2018, 11:22 PM
God bless democracy

No way you know what he's talking about. :D

Pauls' Revere
05-20-2018, 12:10 AM
God bless democracy

I guess.

timosman
05-20-2018, 12:14 AM
I guess.

Thread winner.

A Son of Liberty
05-20-2018, 04:42 AM
Are MS-13 members human?


an·i·mal
ˈanəməl/
noun
noun: animal; plural noun: animals

1.
a living organism that feeds on organic matter, typically having specialized sense organs and nervous system and able to respond rapidly to stimuli.
"animals such as spiders"
a living organism other than a human being.
"are humans superior to animals, or just different?"
synonyms: creature, beast, living thing; More
informalcritter, beastie;
wildlife, fauna
"endangered animals"
a mammal, as opposed to a bird, reptile, fish, or insect.
"the snowfall seemed to have chased all birds, animals, and men indoors"
a person whose behavior is regarded as devoid of human attributes or civilizing influences, especially someone who is very cruel, violent, or repulsive.
"those men have to be animals—what they did to that boy was savage"
synonyms: brute, beast, monster, devil, demon, fiend; More
informalswine, bastard, pig
"the man was an animal"
a particular type of person or thing.

Ahem.

I frankly don't care so much about politics anymore. Thugs gonna thug, and all that. And I don't know what the FULL context of the "animal" comment was... what he was talking about in general, etc. But TAKEN IN A VACUUM, the hyperventilating over Trump rather CLEARLY referring to MS-13 members specifically as "animals" is some goofy a$$ $hit in my book. Go read an article about what these fckers do to people once. "Animal" is GENEROUS. Regardless of where they came from or who "created" them. I don't know, and I really don't care anymore. These people are scum. Subhuman.

Spark of divinity my a$$. These pigs are the spawn of the devil.

Zippyjuan
05-20-2018, 01:40 PM
https://www.vox.com/2018/5/18/17368716/trump-animals-immigrants-illegal


Trump’s defenders immediately claimed the media was getting the story wrong — that Trump had been answering a question about MS-13, so he clearly meant only that violent MS-13 gang members were “criminals.”

Both of those characterizations were wrong.

This is a pasted selection from the transcript sent out by the White House Press Office after the roundtable Wednesday:


SHERIFF (Margaret) MIMS (Fresno County, CA): Now ICE is the only law enforcement agency that cannot use our databases to find the bad guys. They cannot come in and talk to people in our jail, unless they reach a certain threshold. They can’t do all kinds of things that other law enforcement agencies can do. And it’s really put us in a very bad position.

THE PRESIDENT: It’s a disgrace. Okay? It’s a disgrace.

SHERIFF MIMS: It’s a disgrace.

THE PRESIDENT: And we’re suing on that, and we’re working hard, and I think it will all come together, because people want it to come together. It’s so ridiculous. The concept that we’re even talking about is ridiculous. We’ll take care of it, Margaret. We’ll win.

SHERIFF MIMS: Thank you. There could be an MS-13 member I know about — if they don’t reach a certain threshold, I cannot tell ICE about it.

THE PRESIDENT: We have people coming into the country, or trying to come in — and we’re stopping a lot of them — but we’re taking people out of the country. You wouldn’t believe how bad these people are. These aren’t people. These are animals. And we’re taking them out of the country at a level and at a rate that’s never happened before. And because of the weak laws, they come in fast, we get them, we release them, we get them again, we bring them out. It’s crazy.

This context makes a few things clear.

First of all, Trump was not asked a question about MS-13. He was not asked a question at all. He was commiserating with Sheriff Mims about the restrictions that the California “sanctuary” law puts on the ability of local law enforcement officers to make decisions about when someone should be flagged to ICE.

Second of all, the context in which MS-13 was mentioned was itself very specific: someone identified by the sheriff’s department as a “known” gang member but who doesn’t meet the “threshold” of being charged with or convicted of a serious crime.

Third, Trump’s response to Mims’s comment wasn’t actually a response to the point she was making. It wasn’t about people in local jails in the US. He first referred to people “trying to come in” to the country and then to people who are being “taken out of the country.” He then launched into a complaint about bad US laws that allow people to reenter the country repeatedly — something that also has nothing to do with the complaint Mims was making.

In context, Trump’s “animals” comment was simply part of a riff; something at best tangentially related to the conversation that he and Mims had been having up to that point.

That riff may well have been inspired by Mims’s reference to MS-13 in her previous remark. At the same time, though, Trump manifestly wasn’t talking about the same people Mims was talking about: MS-13 members in American jails without serious criminal records.

The president often does this. His comments in unscripted settings often fail to follow any obvious train of thought; he often goes off on tangents and rehashes old riffs; he often fails to demonstrate an understanding of the actual policies being discussed. This is why “what did he mean” is so often an open question. But because he’s the president of the United States, ambiguous statements can’t be left ambiguous — they’re going to acquire whatever meaning people can make from them, based on their existing understanding of what kind of person the president is.


The people making this argument weren’t primarily Democratic politicians. But after a day or so of the animals debate, Republicans had shifted to the idea that they had jiujitsued liberals into defending MS-13, and that that would help them in November. This, too, is a fixture of dialogue in the age of Trump: even people who wouldn’t defend his statements on the merits believe that they create an advantageous political situation for his party by inspiring the other side to do something politically counterproductive.

More at link.

H_H
06-01-2018, 10:18 PM
Are MS-13 members human?

:rolleyes:

Da Big C don't apply to "all humans," Wonka. You jive?

Who do it apply to? Wan' try? Tree guesses. Shoot um ah me, bro.

Danke
06-02-2018, 05:36 AM
lol at our resident socialists making excuses. Vox, really?

enhanced_deficit
06-02-2018, 05:57 AM
Left Hellbent To Defend MS-13

Talk about Jumping the Shark for the protocommies. Now if the mainstream Right could only backtrack & examine why MS-13 exists.



Is that like saying?

"Right Hellbent To Defend Israel (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?517547-Jerusalem-Fallout-Updates&p=6633099&viewfull=1#post6633099)"


AuH20, which of the above two statements you find more credible?

If you agree with the headline of this thread, what has caused more damage to American society, economy, refugees influx situation and which of the two was bigger factor that led to 9/11, Iraqi freedom racial revenge bloodbath, black muslim President Barack Hussein Obama's election etc?

Who comes across as more dumb in your informed view, "Left's support for MS-13" or "Right's support for Israel" ?




Related

Today's Drudge Report:



http://www.drudgereport.com/i/logo9.gif


https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.GUsVqCtCYhWLCyT0xtTpgwHaG0&w=235&h=212&c=7&o=5&pid=1.7

Illegal border crossings remained high in May despite crackdown... (https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/06/01/illegal-border-crossings-remain-high-despite-crackdown/)

Danke
06-02-2018, 06:01 AM
Is that like saying?

"Right Hellbent To Defend Israel (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?517547-Jerusalem-Fallout-Updates&p=6633099&viewfull=1#post6633099)"


AuH20, which of the above two statements you find more credible?

If you agree with the headline of this thread, what has caused more damage to American society, economy, refugees influx situation and which of the two was bigger factor that led to 9/11, Iraqi freedom racial revenge bloodbath, black muslim President Barack Hussein Obama's election etc?

Who comes across as more dumb in your informed view, "Left's support for MS-13" or "Right's support for Israel" ?




Related

Today's Drudge Report:

Your posts once were good, now just garbage.


So the left is right now?

The left doesn't support Israel? LOL

Danke
06-02-2018, 06:03 AM
"Iraqi freedom racial revenge bloodbath"

Are you that ignorant?

enhanced_deficit
06-02-2018, 06:12 AM
I can be on some issues. Please correct, highly logical & rational "Right" supported Iraqi war bloodbath was motivated by what if that is inaccurate/exaggerated assessment? Oil?




So the left is right now?

The left doesn't support Israel? LOL


Is this Left or Right?

https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/59c91a004f79bc3b7908b4e8/master/w_768,c_limit/jared-and-the-observer-11-17-01.jpg



Much of the Left-Right paradigm by supporters of current Leftist-Confused Rightist regime is pointless. Protectionist- Pilce Stater vs Non-Protectionist, anti-Police Stater would be far more accurate though still too simplistic.


Trump's "MS-13" shtick is not much different from Bush/Rove's "Gay marriage" shtick to motivate voters through fear.
Few months ago, Grandpa Bush officiated attended a gay wedding if I'm not mistaken.


Why 'Gay Marriage' is no longer an issue for current 'Right'... why they moved on so quickly if they were not lying as they did before iraqi Freedom sacrifice? Will same be case about 'Pelosi loves MS-13' few years from now?

8 years of Barack Hussein Obama/16 years of 'open borders' and demographic changes have naturally caused anguish in society but blind support for current anti-swamp, anti-lies regime is not the answer.

Anti Globalist
06-02-2018, 07:39 AM
Defends MS-13. Wants to take away your AR-15.

TheCount
06-02-2018, 02:14 PM
:rolleyes:

Da Big C don't apply to "all humans," Wonka. You jive?

Who do it apply to? Wan' try? Tree guesses. Shoot um ah me, bro.

Can you point that part out to me?

H_H
06-02-2018, 02:18 PM
Why 'Gay Marriage' is no longer an issue for current 'Right'... why they moved on so quickly if they were not lying

Because they are losing, mewling, losers who are so used to losing they can't even conceive of anything but continuously, constantly losing. These losers don't even notice their losing, in fact; much as a fish in water.

H_H
06-02-2018, 02:24 PM
Can you point that part out to me?

You da guessa; I da massa. You do da guess; I tell you right. O wrong.

I allreddy know you know what you doing, an zackly what I be saying too. U tink Big C is da C for da Eart? Obligay me an mine to dole out rights to evvy single bum of seven bill on Ert? Come out an say it, Wonka. Like a man.

H_H
06-06-2018, 07:20 PM
Come out an say it, Wonka. Like a man.

Waaaay-teen.

We be wa-hay-hay-teen.

TheCount
06-06-2018, 08:34 PM
Waaaay-teen.

We be wa-hay-hay-teen.

Yes, we are.

H_H
06-07-2018, 07:12 AM
Yes, we are.
Ho, ho, ho! U iz waiting fo youzelf! Dat one so rich call. Nighs, Wonka. U dough nee me no nobody do fo u; u do et fo youzelf.

So, new big Q for make you quirm an igno: oompa loompas have rights, too? Wat say?

TheCount
06-07-2018, 06:57 PM
Ho, ho, ho! U iz waiting fo youzelf! Dat one so rich call. Nighs, Wonka. U dough nee me no nobody do fo u; u do et fo youzelf.

So, new big Q for make you quirm an igno: oompa loompas have rights, too? Wat say?

Positive claims.

euphemia
06-07-2018, 07:22 PM
Going back to the OP, I think the left really can't do anything other than what they do. They have been in the pocket of organized crime so long they have become a crime organization themselves. They have no other choice because they know no other way.

H_H
06-08-2018, 01:13 PM
Positive claims.

Dem oompa loompas do, yu mean? Yu admit dey have positive rights? But how comb why you enslave dem den?!

Now I know yu sey dey like it. I know yu sey you wan make world 'satisfying an deeleeshus.' But one person be one person, no matta how small.

Free the oompas, Wonka. It dee only wey.