What Really Happened?

[Fandango]

This is my first thread/post. I am 59yo and grew up in America till the age of 23 when I emigrated to Australia (1983). I returned to America after a 35 year absence to look after my brother with Leukemia. I stayed for 3 months until my visa expired. Mostly traveled the southwest all the way to the west coast.

You know what it's like when you haven't seen someone in a long time? How different things appear...

The country I grew up in still has the same wonderful people, friendly, smiling and hard-working. But, I was shocked by the decaying infrastructure and the numbers of poor. Really shocked!

I would be interested in comments from forum members of similar age. Perhaps the analogy of the frog in boiling water applies... Your thoughts please.

[Danke]

This is my first thread/post. I am 59yo and grew up in America till the age of 23 when I emigrated to Australia (1983). I returned to America after a 35 year absence to look after my brother with Leukemia. I stayed for 3 months until my visa expired. Mostly traveled the southwest all the way to the west coast.

You know what it's like when you haven't seen someone in a long time? How different things appear...

The country I grew up in still has the same wonderful people, friendly, smiling and hard-working. But, I was shocked by the decaying infrastructure and the numbers of poor. Really shocked!

I would be interested in comments from forum members of similar age. Perhaps the analogy of the frog in boiling water applies... Your thoughts please.

infrastructure here seems ok. But my taxes are through the roof. I like Australia, but the mattresses tied to the women's back there are cumbersome.

[Suzanimal]

This is my first thread/post. I am 59yo and grew up in America till the age of 23 when I emigrated to Australia (1983). I returned to America after a 35 year absence to look after my brother with Leukemia. I stayed for 3 months until my visa expired. Mostly traveled the southwest all the way to the west coast.

You know what it's like when you haven't seen someone in a long time? How different things appear...

The country I grew up in still has the same wonderful people, friendly, smiling and hard-working. But, I was shocked by the decaying infrastructure and the numbers of poor. Really shocked!

I would be interested in comments from forum members of similar age. Perhaps the analogy of the frog in boiling water applies... Your thoughts please.

Things change *shrug*


1970 view of Atlanta (the year I was born)

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a6/17/d9/a617d98d533c9ddac4f44d6bb3e4ca43--atlanta-city-atlanta-georgia.jpg

now...

https://www.dentalhygieneacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Atlanta.jpg

[Suzanimal]

Welcome to the forum, btw.

Do you work for the movie website, like to dance, or are you a fan of the ZZ Top album?

[Jamesiv1]

Just a continuation of the slow but sure destruction of Western Civilization that has been ongoing for centuries.

1. Defeat them
2. Register them
3. Tax them
4. Give them Moar Porn
5. lather, rinse, repeat

Certainly does seem to have accelerated here in the Bosom of Democracy© however, as of late.

Only Trump can save us.

[shakey1]

The slow decline of an empire who's priorities have been misplaced.

[RJ Liberty]

This is my first thread/post. I am 59yo and grew up in America till the age of 23 when I emigrated to Australia (1983). I returned to America after a 35 year absence to look after my brother with Leukemia. I stayed for 3 months until my visa expired. Mostly traveled the southwest all the way to the west coast.

You know what it's like when you haven't seen someone in a long time? How different things appear...

The country I grew up in still has the same wonderful people, friendly, smiling and hard-working. But, I was shocked by the decaying infrastructure and the numbers of poor. Really shocked!

I would be interested in comments from forum members of similar age. Perhaps the analogy of the frog in boiling water applies... Your thoughts please.

This will be a little controversial here, but I think it started with Reaganomics, and the idea that "greed is good": that unrestricted profiteering would lead to a "trickle-down" effect, where the poor would benefit. But that didn't happen. The rich got richer, but the poor didn't benefit. During the Reagan years, the national debt tripled, and we became a debtor nation.

The "greed is good" mantra convinced many otherwise good Christian people (and later their children) that it was okay to forget the teachings of the Bible and become greedy, robbing their neighbors and cheating friends. It just became "good business". We saw the effects of this greed a generation later in the 2006 economic crisis, where millions lost their homes, but the richest just became richer, in part due to a huge loss of ethics in the finance world.

After Reaganomics, the policies of Bush and Clinton didn't rectify the track America was on. I think Perot could have turned things around, with his campaign to reduce the national debt, and his campaign against NAFTA, but once NAFTA was signed and millions of American jobs went overseas, we were screwed.

Bush Jr's endless "War on Terror", and Obama's continuation of that unwinnable war (after campaigning against it), further emptied America's coffers. Improvements to infrastructure that could have been made here in the US were instead spent overseas. I personally witnessed the closure of post offices, schools, and other local government, which helped keep local money local, in favor of more centralized systems, which led to the closure of local businesses as people drifted to larger, more prosperous areas, as Rural Flight eroded communities, especially in the Midwest, but elsewhere as well.

Trump is clueless, and will continue many of the same destructive policies: plenty of spending on the Military Industrial Complex, a continuation of the growth of the National Debt. This man, with his golden skyscrapers, is the very definition of Reagan's "greed is good" mantra. He's the very emblem of what has gone wrong in America financially.

[H_H]

Things change *shrug*


1970 view of Atlanta (the year I was born)

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a6/17/d9/a617d98d533c9ddac4f44d6bb3e4ca43--atlanta-city-atlanta-georgia.jpg

now...

https://www.dentalhygieneacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Atlanta.jpg
100 million extra people gotta be crammed in somewhere.

But... why did we need 100 million extra people again?

[H_H]

This will be a little controversial here, but I think it started with Reaganomics, and the idea that "greed is good": that unrestricted profiteering would lead to a "trickle-down" effect...

The "greed is good" mantra convinced many otherwise good Christian people (and later their children) that it was okay to forget the teachings of the Bible and become greedy, robbing their neighbors and cheating friends. It just became "good business".

Fine thoughts, but shouldn't we go a little deeper? Some forgotten slogansmith did not turn the country on a dime. No, modernity itself conspires against all humanity, bent on devouring anything that looks like a soul or a genuine community. Moderity's most salient feature is utter, mortal opposition to any overriding themes or meaningfulness.

Modernity is bent on destroying organic connections and meaning. Is it a surprise that men today struggle and largely fail to live satisfying, happy, meaningful lives?

We crave organic communities.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meK0G3o9mPw

Think of the Amish. To live a life in one community, a true community, deeply knowing everyone there, from childhood, and only coming to know them more and more as you mature and go through life. Knowing everyone's story. Everyone knows yours. If you live with honor and integrity, you are respected. Your kids can actually walk free and have fun.

This is their life.

This was everyone's life 200 years ago. And 2000 years ago. It was a good life.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hlprmC83nc

A life worth fighting to restore, to make real.

Because nothing else is real, that's for sure. So if we don't have that, we've got zip.

[H_H]

This will be a little controversial here, but I think it started with Reaganomics, and the idea that "greed is good": that unrestricted profiteering would lead to a "trickle-down" effect...

The "greed is good" mantra convinced many otherwise good Christian people (and later their children) that it was okay to forget the teachings of the Bible and become greedy, robbing their neighbors and cheating friends. It just became "good business".

Fine thoughts, but shouldn't we go a little deeper? Some forgotten slogansmith did not turn the country on a dime. No, modernity itself conspires against all humanity, bent on devouring anything that looks like a soul or a genuine community. Moderity's overriding theme is utter, mortal opposition to any overriding themes or meaningfulness.

Modernity is bent on destroying organic connections and meaning. Is it a surprise that men today struggle and largely fail to live satisfying, happy, meaningful lives?

We crave organic communities.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meK0G3o9mPw

Think of the Amish. To live a life in one community, a true community, deeply knowing everyone there, from childhood, and only coming to know them more and more as you mature and go through life. Knowing everyone's story. Everyone knows yours. If you live with honor and integrity, you are respected. Your kids can actually walk free and have fun.

This is their life.

This was everyone's life 200 years ago. And 2000 years ago. It was a good life.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hlprmC83nc

A life worth fighting to restore, to make real.

Because nothing else is real, that's for sure. So if we don't have that, we've got zip.

[Thor]

We pay taxes to maintain infrastructure. Lots and lots of taxes.... Hmmmm.

[H_H]

Just a continuation of the slow but sure destruction of Western Civilization that has been ongoing for centuries.

1. Defeat them
2. Register them
3. Tax them
4. Give them Moar Porn
5. lather, rinse, repeat

Certainly does seem to have accelerated here in the Bosom of Democracy© however, as of late.

Only Trump can save us.

Indeed. Luckily, thanks to Trump, soon we will be saying Merry Christmas again, divorce will become non-existent, single mothers a memory from the past, illegal immigration will totally end, IQ and bowling averages will be way up, murder and mini-golf scores way down, and America will be Great Again.

[Origanalist]

This is my first thread/post. I am 59yo and grew up in America till the age of 23 when I emigrated to Australia (1983). I returned to America after a 35 year absence to look after my brother with Leukemia. I stayed for 3 months until my visa expired. Mostly traveled the southwest all the way to the west coast.

You know what it's like when you haven't seen someone in a long time? How different things appear...

The country I grew up in still has the same wonderful people, friendly, smiling and hard-working. But, I was shocked by the decaying infrastructure and the numbers of poor. Really shocked!

I would be interested in comments from forum members of similar age. Perhaps the analogy of the frog in boiling water applies... Your thoughts please.

Really? The number of poor people has grown? Hmmm, I'm also 59 and I'm not seeing it. I've seen a explosion of people unwilling to work to support themselves however.

[Suzanimal]

100 million extra people gotta be crammed in somewhere.

But... why did we need 100 million extra people again?

Whadda ya want to do, abort them? :confused:

[H_H]

Whadda ya want to do, abort them? :confused:



https://cdn.cnsnews.com/fertilitychart1.jpg

Population of America in 1970: 200 million
Birthrate in America the entire time from then until now: just under 2
What is Replacement rate (for a flat, constant population): 2.1
What the Real American Population should, then, be: <200 million

Where did the extra 100 million come from?

[VIDEODROME]

I think it depends a lot on where you are here. It's very patchwork with some places doing very well and other places doing horribly. Also even within a city, you can abruptly go from being in a good part of town to a poor area with crumbling buildings or signs of a struggling neighborhood where more customer facing businesses have bars over windows or bulletproof shields over the counter.

I have't been to the South West in a long time so I'm not sure what issues they're having.

[timosman]

Where did the extra 100 million come from?

Are the official immigration numbers accurate? http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?511339-Are-the-official-immigration-numbers-accurate

[osan]

Whadda ya want to do, abort them? :confused:


At this point, it would be tender mercy.

[r3volution 3.0]

We clearly need more roads, and also voting.

[timosman]

We pay taxes to maintain infrastructure. Lots and lots of taxes.... Hmmmm.

What we pay for even more is infrastructure and process/software updates. Our institutions has been taken hostage by the software companies which was on full display during Mark Cuckerberg (hi Mark) testimony.

[TheTexan]

We pay taxes to maintain infrastructure. Lots and lots of taxes.... Hmmmm.

Our system isn't perfect but it has roads

[TheTexan]

We clearly need more roads, and also voting.

Roads are usually controlled by the local deep state. It's a real problem in this country, that road construction & maintenance is so far removed from the people that are actually voted into office.

We need someone to drain the swamp, and make our roads great again

[timosman]

Roads are usually controlled by the local deep state. It's a real problem in this country, that road construction & maintenance is so far removed from the people that are actually voted into office.

We need someone to drain the swamp, and make our roads great again

Yeah, you don't get a dime.:cool:

[osan]

Fine thoughts, but shouldn't we go a little deeper? Some forgotten slogansmith did not turn the country on a dime. No, modernity itself conspires against all humanity, bent on devouring anything that looks like a soul or a genuine community. Moderity's overriding theme is utter, mortal opposition to any overriding themes or meaningfulness.

Modernity is bent on destroying organic connections and meaning. Is it a surprise that men today struggle and largely fail to live satisfying, happy, meaningful lives?

We crave organic communities.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meK0G3o9mPw

Think of the Amish. To live a life in one community, a true community, deeply knowing everyone there, from childhood, and only coming to know them more and more as you mature and go through life. Knowing everyone's story. Everyone knows yours. If you live with honor and integrity, you are respected. Your kids can actually walk free and have fun.

This is their life.

This was everyone's life 200 years ago. And 2000 years ago. It was a good life.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hlprmC83nc

A life worth fighting to restore, to make real.

Because nothing else is real, that's for sure. So if we don't have that, we've got zip.

Well stated.

Most of the walking carcasses have nothing, save their morbid avarice, shrinking timidity, a drive to do as little as possible if it resembles work or responsibility, and proudly boastful ignorance.

They choose this of their free will. The only immediate pity there is that the sucking noise made by the walking dead drags those worthy of something better into the abyss as well. That is the only sadness I discern with the prospect of universal human genocide. As for the wad, I could not care less.

Humans.

[PierzStyx]

Welcome to the forum, btw.

Do you work for the movie website, like to dance, or are you a fan of the ZZ Top album?

Maybe he or she is just a big fan of thunderbolts and lightning.

[PierzStyx]

This was everyone's life 200 years ago. And 2000 years ago. It was a good life.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hlprmC83nc



Yawn.

Telling that you have to resort to fantasy for your fictional world.

Reality is that 200 years ago you were lucky to live past five, lived in conditions that today are unimaginable to all except those living in the worst, poorest modern nations, and had, at best, a primary education if you could read or write at all. In fact, no country in the world today has a lower life expectancy than the the countries with the highest life expectancy in 1800. Meaning our modern poor live better than even the best did 200 years ago. And it is projected to only continue getting better.

https://ourworldindata.org/life-expectancy

Peddle your mythical Fascist fantasies elsewhere.

[VIDEODROME]

I dunno, I've lived around Amish people and that's not for me lol. I would buy produce from them and it seemed sad their kids were in awe of my old beat up car.

Some Amish also still seem cool with animal abuse mistreating their horses. Something about God giving man dominion over the animals is interpreted as giving permission to treat them poorly or leave them Parked for hours still tethered to their buggies.

Also, young Amish who simply have to much human curiosity about the world can be caught being to familiar with Evil Technology and shunned. I don't think the Amish are really above corruption either and Elders may wield Shunning as a tool to protect their interests or in some cases their drug crops.

I suppose Modernity can have awkward growing pains as things advance, but I don't see any benefit to going backwards and regressing in an idealized Shire.

[H_H]

Yawn. Bless you.


Telling that you have to resort to fantasy for your fictional world. Pierzy, you find me a Youtubey of Typical English Village 400 years ago. I'll totally post it.

I will.

Meantime, you really gonna hate on Tolkien? You that much of a hater?


Everything is Awesome!
Come on, you're going to write that and then not post the song?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StTqXEQ2l-Y
This is the best song to come out of popular music this decade. Bar None.




Peddle your mythical Fascist fantasies elsewhere.So, the past is Fascist now?

Yeah, it probably is.

The Past totally stunketh-ed! Modernity is awesome and also awesome! Let's move Boldly into the Future.


Tired: God. Family. Country.

Wired: Vote. Porn. Buy stuff.

[H_H]

Old: Human values.

Bold: Modifying yourself to like Hydrogen. There's a lot of Hydrogen.

Foretold: Modifying yourself to like Suffering. There's a lot of Suffering.

[pcosmar]

Anyone care for some boiled Frog Legs?

[H_H]

[QUOTE]I dunno, I've lived around Amish people and that's not for me lol. I would buy produce from them and it seemed sad their kids were in awe of my old beat up car. That ain't sad: you should be in awe of it, too. Old beat-up cars rule.


Some Amish also still seem cool with animal abuse mistreating their horses. Something about God giving man dominion over the animals is interpreted as giving permission to treat them poorly or leave them Parked for hours still tethered to their buggies. Oh brother, who cares? Remember how I was more concerned about HUMANS living satisfying, meaningful, happy lives? If that meant we had to kill all the horses and eat them, I'd be down with that. So would every other (even marginally) sane person.


Also, young Amish who simply have to much human curiosity about the world can be caught being to familiar with Evil Technology and shunned. I don't think the Amish are really above corruption either and Elders may wield Shunning as a tool to protect their interests or in some cases their drug crops. Whoa, there is still corruption, even among the Amish? :eek::eek: :eek::eek::eek: :eek::eek::eek::eek: :eek: This cannot be! This must not stand!

See, this is why I call it Neo-Puritanism (this week). And by this paragraph you seem to be infected by it, Videodrone. It's this obsession to create a perfect utopia on Earth, a driving manic force to sculpt human nature into New [Fill-In-The-Buzzword] Man, and the deranged and reality-ignoring belief that they could actually succeed. Because obviously there is corruption in human societies. Obviously there is unkindness. Obviously people have their own interests and agendas. That you trumpet the existence of these obvious universalities as proof of the Failure of the Amish communities is very telling. It reveals to us readers, and perhaps, if you're extremely smart and capable of self-reflection, to yourself, what it is your mind-bug is driving at. Failure to do what? To eliminate human failings, failings which obviously cannot be eliminated. Why does the mind-bug want you to focus on that? Ahh, you'll have to figure that out on your own. Think on it.


I suppose Modernity can have awkward growing pains as things advance, but I don't see any benefit to going backwards and regressing in an idealized Shire. There is no backwards, only forwards. Now jump in the Ghetto Cruiser and let's do this thing! Savin' the world. Buckin' the trends. Remember: the rebel of the twenty-first century will be old-fashioned. And one way or other, we shall assuredly win. The future belongs to me.

[VIDEODROME]

I guess I was just saying I don't see any sign that Amish life is somehow better.

Would I want to throw away modern conveniences and still have many of the same community 'flaws'?

[Jamesiv1]

Maybe he or she is just a big fan of thunderbolts and lightning.
mama mia!

where is my sidekick when i need him...?

[H_H]

I guess I was just saying I don't see any sign that Amish life is somehow better.

Would I want to throw away modern conveniences and still have many of the same community 'flaws'?

If perfection and only perfection is your blinding guiding light, then yes, no life is better than any other. Whatevs, yo? Like, pick your drug, man, they're all the same. Who cares and junk? Just mellow out.

Embrace the Nihilism.

[H_H]

Amish suicide rate: 0%
Amish happy-pill use (psychotropic drugs: Amien, Prozac, Ritalin): 0%
Amish pornography addiction rate: 0%
Amish divorce rate: <1%
Amish men enslaved to child support payments to whores: 0%
Amish imprisonment rate: 0%
Amish SJW rate: 0%
Cross-dressing Amish boys: 0%
Amish depression rate: <2% (temporary, post-partum)

Yes, there are some modes of living that are more effective than others. Yes, community matters.

No? You disagree? OK, just keep popping those pills, America! That'll solve your problems.

[RJ Liberty]

Amish suicide rate: 0%
Amish happy-pill use (psychotropic drugs: Amien, Prozac, Ritalin): 0%
Amish pornography addiction rate: 0%
Amish divorce rate: <1%
Amish men enslaved to child support payments to whores: 0%
Amish imprisonment rate: 0%
Amish SJW rate: 0%
Cross-dressing Amish boys: 0%
Amish depression rate: <2% (temporary, post-partum)

Yes, there are some modes of living that are more effective than others. Yes, community matters.

No? You disagree? OK, just keep popping those pills, America! That'll solve your problems.

The Amish suicide rate is actually about half that of the general population (not zero). Yet the Amish suffer from other problems, including increased polydactyly (extra fingers), dwarfism, other genetic issues, etc.

The problems we face as Americans won't be solved by becoming Amish (or Mennonites, or Hutterites), but we definitely do need to return to that sense of community that I remember from the 1970s, and that got stripped away in the 1980s.

[TheTexan]

Amish suicide rate: 0%
Amish happy-pill use (psychotropic drugs: Amien, Prozac, Ritalin): 0%
Amish pornography addiction rate: 0%
Amish divorce rate: <1%
Amish men enslaved to child support payments to whores: 0%
Amish imprisonment rate: 0%
Amish SJW rate: 0%
Cross-dressing Amish boys: 0%
Amish depression rate: <2% (temporary, post-partum)

Yes, there are some modes of living that are more effective than others. Yes, community matters.

No? You disagree? OK, just keep popping those pills, America! That'll solve your problems.

Number of bud lites in their refrigerator: 0
Number of refrigerators: 0

[H_H]

The Amish suicide rate is actually about half that of the general population (not zero).

Actually, your number is just as made up as mine. Lancaster County =/= All Amish. Nobody knows the real number.

Anyway,...

but we definitely do need to return to that sense of community you are actually totally right. This was my only point, too. I wasn't saying that we should all literally convert to Amism, any more than that we should literally become Hobbits. They're just mental pictures to open a up vista and make us realize: yes, there could be a better way.

[VIDEODROME]

At least I can mellow out with my central air conditioning.


Edit: you seemed frustrated by Modernity while referencing the Amish life. Maybe I misunderstood what changes you meant.

[VIDEODROME]

Hmm...


What if there could be a Virtual Reality Amish Simulator for people who want to socialize that way?