Starbucks in hot water for having cops remove two black men from Philly store

[Anti Federalist]

I do love when the Bolsheviks eat their own.

Starbucks has spent years cultivating their SJW street cred, only to have it all blown away in a matter of five minutes because someone called cops.

Do not call cops.

Nothing ever good comes from it.



Starbucks C.E.O. Apologizes After Arrests of 2 Black Men

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/15/us/starbucks-philadelphia-black-men-arrest.html

By MATT STEVENSAPRIL 15, 2018

Two black men walked into a Starbucks in downtown Philadelphia on Thursday afternoon and sat down. Officials said they had asked to use the restroom but because they had not bought anything, an employee refused the request. They were eventually asked to leave, and when they declined, an employee called the police.

Some of what happened next was recorded in a video that has been viewed more than eight million times on Twitter and was described by the chief executive of Starbucks as “very hard to watch.” Details of the episode, which the authorities provided on Saturday, ignited widespread criticism on social media, incited anger among public officials and prompted investigations.

The video shows the men surrounded by several police officers wearing bicycle helmets in the Center City Starbucks. When one officer asks another man whether he is “with these gentlemen,” the man says he is and calls the episode ridiculous.

“What did they get called for?” asks the man, Andrew Yaffe, who is white, referring to the police. “Because there are two black guys sitting here meeting me?”

Moments later, officers escort one of the black men out of the Starbucks in handcuffs. The other soon follows.

The men, who have not been identified, were arrested on suspicion of trespassing. But Starbucks did not want to press charges and the men were later released, Commissioner Richard Ross Jr. of the Philadelphia Police Department said in a recorded statement on Saturday.

The prosecutor’s office in Philadelphia also reviewed the case and declined to charge the men because of “a lack of evidence that a crime was committed,” Benjamin Waxman, a spokesman for the office, said.

The company apologized on Twitter Saturday afternoon. Later that day, while the hashtag #BoycottStarbucks was trending on Twitter, Kevin R. Johnson, the chief executive of Starbucks, released a statement in which he called the situation a “reprehensible outcome.”

Mr. Johnson said he hoped to meet them in person to offer a “face-to-face apology.”

He also pledged to investigate, and to “make any necessary changes to our practices that would help prevent such an occurrence from ever happening again.”

[specsaregood]

They were told they were trespassing and asked to leave, they refused. The manage told them they were gonna call the cops and they said "I don't care."

Fuck em. They could have just bought some overpriced coffee and made everybody's day easier.

[Anti Federalist]

They were told they were trespassing and asked to leave, they refused. The manage told them they were gonna call the cops and they said "I don't care."

Fuck em. They could have just bought some overpriced coffee and made everybody's day easier.

It could have gone down a hundred different ways, that is one way, all better than dragging cops into it.

I find the justice deliciously poetic after Starbucks has made it a point for years now to try and ingratiate itself and position itself as the exclusive coffee suppliers of the perpetually aggrieved, Bolshevik, SJW left.

[dannno]

I find the justice deliciously poetic after Starbucks has made it a point for years now to try and ingratiate itself and position itself as the exclusive coffee suppliers of the perpetually aggrieved, Bolshevik, SJW left.

Starbucks Barista Fired for Getting Threats on Social Media

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?516282-Starbucks-Barista-Fired-for-Getting-Threats-on-Social-Media

[Brian4Liberty]

Hmmm. Something fishy about this. Seems very unreasonable by the Starbucks employee. Was this a set-up?

[angelatc]

Hmmm. Something fishy about this. Seems very unreasonable by the Starbucks employee. Was this a set-up?

It's Philly. They are all belligerent jerks, remember?

[Brian4Liberty]

It's Philly. They are all belligerent jerks, remember?

Never been there. But I've heard that is the stereotype.

Seems like everyone is sitting around working on their laptops at most Starbucks. Much longer than it would take to drink a cup of coffee.

[specsaregood]

Hmmm. Something fishy about this. Seems very unreasonable by the Starbucks employee. Was this a set-up?

I would wager that the manager of a starbucks in center city Philly, has had to run off quite a few non-customers occupying space and non-customers trying to use the restrooms. I'd have run them off too, either buy something or get out is a pretty ordinary request from a business.

[angelatc]

I would wager that the manager of a starbucks in center city Philly, has had to run off quite a few non-customers occupying space and non-customers trying to use the restrooms. I'd have run them off too, either buy something or get out is a pretty ordinary request from a business.

Yeah. I do not think the cops did anything wrong even if the manager was a jerk. I don't know PA but in most places, restaurants have the right to ask you to leave for any reason they choose. The cops have the responsibility to enforce the law.

[Brian4Liberty]

I would wager that the manager of a starbucks in center city Philly, has had to run off quite a few non-customers occupying space and non-customers trying to use the restrooms. I'd have run them off too, either buy something or get out is a pretty ordinary request from a business.

They might base that on the appearance of the people.

The given reason for them being there was a business meeting. Were they dressed for a "business investment opportunities" meeting? Doesn't seem like it.


(JTA) — The two black men arrested at a Starbucks in Philadelphia were waiting for a local Jewish businessman, Andrew Yaffe.
...
Yaffe, who runs a real estate development firm, was meeting the men to discuss business investment opportunities. In the video, he arrives at the Starbucks and tells police that they were waiting for him.

“Why would they be asked to leave?” Yaffe says on the video. “Does anybody else think this is ridiculous? It’s absolute discrimination.”
...
Read more: https://forward.com/fast-forward/398830/black-men-arrested-in-philadelphia-starbucks-were-waiting-for-local-jewish/

[dannno]

They might base that on the appearance of the people.

The given reason for them being there was a business meeting. Were they dressed for a "business investment opportunities" meeting? Doesn't seem like it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj4GuRqhNBo

[Schifference]

Simple solution. Have less tables and less seating.

[Anti Federalist]

I would wager that the manager of a starbucks in center city Philly, has had to run off quite a few non-customers occupying space and non-customers trying to use the restrooms. I'd have run them off too, either buy something or get out is a pretty ordinary request from a business.

Twenty bucks says the manager is a POC.

[Raginfridus]

Twenty bucks says the manager is a POC.

Prime Oriental Cucumber?

[dannno]

Prime Oriental Cucumber?

Person of Character

[Raginfridus]

Person of Character

I have a dream.

[nobody's_hero]

I had this happen to me once. I stopped at a gas station and the rule was you had to buy something to use the restroom. Okay, whatever, gotta piss and get back on the road. I bought a newspaper so I could pee with dignity. The restrooms could have been a bit cleaner though.

Of course, I wasn't black so I couldn't cry foul. I just had to follow the rules, do my business, and leave.

I know, cool story right? I'm waiting on a movie deal.

Starbucks is anti-gun though. I wouldn't so much as take a piss in one.

[timosman]

The CEO said the personnel didn't have enough training and he is going to address the issue by providing employees with more training. This is going to be fun for everybody. :cool:

[tod evans]

Fuck Starbucks!

Fuck the two black men.

And fuck the cops!

[Madison320]

Reason #14,249 not to own a business in the US, and why we can't compete with China.

[phill4paul]

I had this happen to me once. I stopped at a gas station and the rule was you had to buy something to use the restroom. Okay, whatever, gotta piss and get back on the road. I bought a newspaper so I could pee with dignity. The restrooms could have been a bit cleaner though.

Of course, I wasn't black so I couldn't cry foul. I just had to follow the rules, do my business, and leave.

I know, cool story right? I'm waiting on a movie deal.

Starbucks is anti-gun though. I wouldn't so much as take a piss in one.

Your white privilege allowed you to make enough money to buy a newspaper. Quitcherbitchin'.

[EBounding]

It sounds like there were white patrons doing the same thing but they didn't have the cops called on them. Bad behavior on behalf of this store, so now the company gets the grief. Good.

[Madison320]

It sounds like there were white patrons doing the same thing but they didn't have the cops called on them. Bad behavior on behalf of this store, so now the company gets the grief. Good.

That what it sounds like, although we'll probably never get the manager's side of the story. On the other hand, a business has the right to ask anyone to leave, for whatever reason and they refused. Also I noticed that they already hired a lawyer.

As far as the people complaining about the cops, what were the police supposed to do? "We're sorry, the 2 men don't want to leave. You are obligated to let them stay on your property."

[pcosmar]

The cops have the responsibility to enforce the law.

Human Beings have responsibility for enforcing law..

Cops are Authoritarian Bully Boys,, with little concept of LAW OR JUSTICE..
IT IS HARD TO TELL WHO WAS MORE PHUCKED UP,, the management or the Pigs who responded.

[Influenza]

which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters

[pcosmar]

It sounds like there were white patrons doing the same thing but they didn't have the cops called on them. Bad behavior on behalf of this store, so now the company gets the grief. Good.

Pretty much badly handled by the employees.

A moments polite conversation could have avoided the whole ordeal.

[dannno]

It sounds like there were white patrons doing the same thing but they didn't have the cops called on them. Bad behavior on behalf of this store, so now the company gets the grief. Good.

Ok, so what if a couple white dudes come in dressed as gang bangers, are really noisy and annoying the other customers and don't buy anything? Meanwhile some middle aged black guy is sitting on his computer quietly in the corner without buying anything and they kick the white dudes out. Is that racist too?

I don't know how this one went down, but social media and the mainstream media don't always tell the whole story.

[timosman]

Reason #14,249 not to own a business in the US, and why we can't compete with China.

+rep You might even start to think this is done on purpose by the members of the fifth column.:cool:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?521181-It-Begins-California-Senator-Introduces-Bill-to-Kill-Free-Speech-Requires-State-Sanctioned-F

[Madison320]

Ok, so what if a couple white dudes come in dressed as gang bangers, are really noisy and annoying the other customers and don't buy anything? Meanwhile some middle aged black guy is sitting on his computer quietly in the corner without buying anything and they kick the white dudes out. Is that racist too?

I don't know how this one went down, but social media and the mainstream media don't always tell the whole story.

Exactly. Like I said, we'll probably never get to hear the manager's side of the story.

[Madison320]

Human Beings have responsibility for enforcing law..

Cops are Authoritarian Bully Boys,, with little concept of LAW OR JUSTICE..
IT IS HARD TO TELL WHO WAS MORE PHUCKED UP,, the management or the Pigs who responded.

What should the cops have done differently?

[timosman]

What should the cops have done differently?

Post a question on RPF and wait for suggestions.

[angelatc]

Ok, so what if a couple white dudes come in dressed as gang bangers, are really noisy and annoying the other customers and don't buy anything? Meanwhile some middle aged black guy is sitting on his computer quietly in the corner without buying anything and they kick the white dudes out. Is that racist too?

I don't know how this one went down, but social media and the mainstream media don't always tell the whole story.

You're the first person that is asserting that they were loud and disruptive. Is that true? You're right - the media only tells us a narrative.

[dannno]

You're the first person that is asserting that they were loud and disruptive. Is that true? You're right - the media only tells us a narrative.

I wasn't asserting anything except that nobody commenting here or on social media was actually there... so to assert that they kicked them out because they were black is kinda ridiculous.

[Influenza]

I wasn't asserting anything except that nobody commenting here or on social media was actually there... so to assert that they kicked them out because they were black is kinda ridiculous.
thank you for the useless, completely irrelevant theoretical scenario. 1056 logged hours watching stefan molyneux and that's all you have to show for us

[dannno]

thank you for the useless, completely irrelevant theoretical scenario. 1056 logged hours watching stefan molyneux and that's all you have to show for us

Typically customers are asked to leave a business establishment when they are causing a scene or some other problem, not when they are being quiet and acting like normal people. Race baiters will often use skin color to try and say that was the reason they were asked to leave, and social media is all too accommodating for them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_VAfVhsvOA

[pcosmar]

What should the cops have done differently?

Speak politely to the men,, and find out why they are there..
Speak to the Manager,,

Keep The Peace. if they are to exist at all..

The Man who asked to meet them there for Business arrived and verified their story. He was there to buy the coffee.

[Influenza]

Typically customers are asked to leave a business establishment when they are causing a scene or some other problem, not when they are being quiet and acting like normal people. Race baiters will often use skin color to try and say that was the reason they were asked to leave, and social media is all too accommodating for them.

correct, that's why, based on the information publicly available thus far, this situation is atypical, in that they were asked to leave without being disruptive. If there is evidence to the contrary, it would have to be presented. In the meanwhile, comparisons with "BELLIGERENT GANGBANGER WHITE DUDES" do little more than turn this forum into a caricature of itself - which you guys are doing a mighty fine job at if i do say so myself.

[dannno]

correct, that's why, based on the information publicly available thus far, this situation is atypical, in that they were asked to leave without being disruptive. If there is evidence to the contrary, it would have to be presented. In the meanwhile, comparisons with "BELLIGERENT GANGBANGER WHITE DUDES" do little more than turn this forum into a caricature of itself - which you guys are doing a mighty fine job at if i do say so myself.

Which information is public so far?

Would it be fair to say that one side is, and not the other?

And at least I'm not a caricature of a race baiting progressive..

[Influenza]

Which information is public so far?

Would it be fair to say that one side is, and not the other?

And at least I'm not a caricature of a race baiting progressive..

It would not be fair to say that as you have heard both sides already, lmao. starbucks didn't dispute their story at all. if they were being disruptive, it would be on a security camera or someone else's. If there was any actual dispute to the information available, we would hear something about it. But all we see is the conjecture of not-so-closeted racists like yourself.

[dannno]

It would not be fair to say that as you have heard both sides already, lmao. starbucks didn't dispute their story at all. if they were being disruptive, it would be on a security camera or someone else's. If there was any actual dispute to the information available, we would hear something about it. But all we see is the conjecture of not-so-closeted racists like yourself.

Good God, what a bunch of horse shit.

Starbucks is clearly NOT on the side of the employee who made the decision, because "Starbucks" didn't make the decision to kick the customer out, that employee is disposable and this situation makes Starbucks look bad no matter what.

So when you say, "both sides" have their story public you still really still mean one side.

So let me ask again, would be fair to say that the information that is public so far is coming from one side, and not the other? The OTHER is the EMPLOYEE who made the decision. Like others have said, we have NOT heard their side of the story.

Why does this sort of basic shit need to be pointed out multiple times in the same thread? Is it because it is a Starbucks thread?

[Influenza]

Good God, what a bunch of horse $#@!.

Starbucks is clearly NOT on the side of the employee who made the decision, because they didn't make the decision, that employee is disposable and this situation makes Starbucks look bad no matter what.

So when you say, "both sides" have their story public you still really still mean one side.

So let me ask again, would be fair to say that the information that is public so far is coming from one side, and not the other? The OTHER is the EMPLOYEE who made the decision. Like others have said, we have NOT heard their side of the story.

Why does this sort of basic $#@! need to be pointed out multiple times in the same thread? Is it because it is a Starbucks thread?

So why doesn't the employee speak up then? It's a 5 day old story. I'll do some mind-numbingly retarded conjecture to answer this question, like you: The employee actually is disgusted at the sight of black people and attempts to get them kicked out any chance he/she gets. sounds about as sensible as portraying the 2 dudes as black thug yahoos disturbing the peace

[fisharmor]

So why doesn't the employee speak up then? It's a 5 day old story. I'll do some mind-numbingly retarded conjecture to answer this question, like you: The employee actually is disgusted at the sight of black people and attempts to get them kicked out any chance he/she gets. sounds about as sensible as portraying the 2 dudes as black thug yahoos disturbing the peace

I've never been to Cally, and God willing, I never will... but classic, actual, non-SJW-witchhunter racism is very much alive and well in the North, just like it always has been.
That very much includes Philadelphia.

[dannno]

not-so-closeted racists like yourself.

This has got to be the dumbest shit I've ever read.

Name one thing I've ever said that is racist..

I would bet $100 there is more racial diversity in my friends and acquaintances throughout my life than you. I have three black friends in a town with like .5% black people. I've spent at least half my time living in hispanic neighborhoods in my town, and do currently, most of the time with hispanic people in my house.

Just because I am willing to admit there are obnoxious black people doesn't make me racist - because guess what? There are obnoxious white people too. So get a fucking life.

[dannno]

So why doesn't the employee speak up then? It's a 5 day old story. I'll do some mind-numbingly retarded conjecture to answer this question, like you: The employee actually is disgusted at the sight of black people and attempts to get them kicked out any chance he/she gets. sounds about as sensible as portraying the 2 dudes as black thug yahoos disturbing the peace

Has anybody asked them what happened? Did Starbucks tell them not to say anything about the incident?

[dannno]

I've never been to Cally, and God willing, I never will... but classic, actual, non-SJW-witchhunter racism is very much alive and well in the North, just like it always has been.
That very much includes Philadelphia.

The pictures from the protest, it looks like a bunch of hipsters. 50/50 chance whoever kicked the guys out was LGTBTQHB

[Anti Federalist]

Yeah. I do not think the cops did anything wrong even if the manager was a jerk. I don't know PA but in most places, restaurants have the right to ask you to leave for any reason they choose. The cops have the responsibility to enforce the law.

Nor do I.

The cops did what they are supposed to do...arrest people and fuck up their day.

Call out a guy with a wrecking ball to kill a fly, and don't be surprised when house gets knocked down.

My point is simply this: by calling the cops you now have a PR nightmare that will takes months to die down and cost millions of dollars.

Calling the cops in any situation should be a very last resort.

[Anti Federalist]

which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters

I did.

You got a fucking problem with them?

[oyarde]

Starbucks in Philly , two black guys , I was looking for the rest of the joke , kind of expecting a Rabbi , Priest and a Nun too . Philly , LOL . City of Brotherly Love .

[Influenza]

This has got to be the dumbest $#@! I've ever read.

Name one thing I've ever said that is racist..

I would bet $100 there is more racial diversity in my friends and acquaintances throughout my life than you. I have three black friends in a town with like .5% black people. I've spent at least half my time living in hispanic neighborhoods in my town, and do currently, most of the time with hispanic people in my house.

Just because I am willing to admit there are obnoxious black people doesn't make me racist - because guess what? There are obnoxious white people too. So get a $#@!ing life.

u talk a big game but we all know u are like roy moore and his jewish lawyer :o

[Anti Federalist]

Pretty much badly handled by the employees.

A moments polite conversation could have avoided the whole ordeal.

Yup. This.

Even if it didn't calling the cops is only going to make the situation worse, even if you "win".

Starbucks now has a PR shit-storm that will cost them millions by the time it dies down.

[Valli6]

So the only video, is of what occurs after the cops arrive? Were the people recording this hoping for an altercation?

What matters most is what happened before the cops were called.

How long were they there before they were told to leave? Was it 1 minute or 30 minutes? Were they looking at a menu? Had they done this before? - i.e. was it a habit of there's to hang around without ordering anything? Had they come in just to use the toilet in the past (treating it like a government-funded public restroom)? -or- Was the store very busy so that they were preventing paying customers from sitting down? Without answers to these questions, it's narrow-minded for SJWs to assume it's all about their blackness. Of, course, any business has the right to kick you out if they have a problem with your being there.

Personally, I think most people who need to use a business's toilet make a point of finding something to buy - I had even done this (grudgingly) at Starbucks once, years ago (really needed to use that toilet!). It's simply the civil thing to do and only a child or someone who feels entitled would not realize it.

Not necessarily a set-up, but it's entirely possible that it was. Suing Starbucks for discrimination? Being who and what they are, they'd settle without any argument, plus donate to an assortment of activists' orgs in their desperation to "prove" they aren't racist.

[pcosmar]

Which information is public so far?


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/starbucks-los-angeles-philadelphia-accused-of-racism/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/04/16/black-man-videotapes-starbucks-refusal-let-him-use-restroom/521233002/

https://news.starbucks.com/views/starbucks-ceo-reprehensible-outcome-in-philadelphia-incident

Regretfully, our practices and training led to a bad outcome—the basis for the call to the Philadelphia police department was wrong. Our store manager never intended for these men to be arrested and this should never have escalated as it did.

[Madison320]

I wasn't asserting anything except that nobody commenting here or on social media was actually there... so to assert that they kicked them out because they were black is kinda ridiculous.

I think what triggered them being asked to leave was when one guy asked to use the bathroom. That was what the police chief said and I heard it somewhere else also. Plus it makes sense. I'd bet anything that was store policy.

[dannno]

u talk a big game but we all know u are like roy moore and his jewish lawyer :o

You don't know jack shit.

[dannno]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/starbucks-los-angeles-philadelphia-accused-of-racism/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/04/16/black-man-videotapes-starbucks-refusal-let-him-use-restroom/521233002/

https://news.starbucks.com/views/starbucks-ceo-reprehensible-outcome-in-philadelphia-incident

The manager didn't want them arrested, great, but I was talking about the employee or manager who asked them to leave and whether that in and of itself was 'because they were black' or whether it was because the person was acting inappropriately for someone who wasn't buying anything. If you buy something, you can act a little more inappropriately than if you don't buy something, but there are still limits in both cases. I'm not defending what the cops did, but I don't really know what information they were acting on though either.

[Madison320]

Speak politely to the men,, and find out why they are there..
Speak to the Manager,,

Keep The Peace. if they are to exist at all..

The Man who asked to meet them there for Business arrived and verified their story. He was there to buy the coffee.

I would argue that the primary job of the police is not to "Keep the Peace", but to protect property rights. Suppose you catch someone breaking into your home and you call the police. "Keeping the Peace" could mean letting him go instead of arresting him.

The two guys should've left peacefully when they were asked and then they could make a big deal out of it. By refusing they were committing a crime. If I want someone off of my property I don't want to have to prove that I have moral justification to do so. I just want it done.

[dannno]

I think what triggered them being asked to leave was when one guy asked to use the bathroom. That was what the police chief said and I heard it somewhere else also. Plus it makes sense. I'd bet anything that was store policy.

Nah, it was more than that.

Starbucks can get hectic during rush hour, but most of the time they are kinda like a library except everybody is quietly working on their computers.

If you go in and you are quiet and you sit in the corner and you go up and ask to use the restroom, no matter what color skin you have you won't have a problem.

If you go in there and you are making a scene and bothering the customers and not buying anything, then you ask to use the restroom they will probably use that as an excuse to get you out of there.

[pcosmar]

I would argue that the primary job of the police is not to "Keep the Peace", but to protect property rights. Suppose you catch someone breaking into your home and you call the police. "Keeping the Peace" could mean letting him go instead of arresting him.

The two guys should've left peacefully when they were asked and then they could make a big deal out of it. By refusing they were committing a crime. If I want someone off of my property I don't want to have to prove that I have moral justification to do so. I just want it done.

Police should not exist in a free and civilized society.... Period.

Police are Enforcers of Control.. "Police" by definition are "to control"..
It is an authoritarian construct... and necessary for authoritarian society.. But has no place in a Free Society.


If you want someone off you property then man up an remove them yourself rather that some STATE Bully boys.
Responsibility,, for your actions,, and the consequences.

Calling police is a cowardly duck of responsibility.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters


thank you for the useless, completely irrelevant theoretical scenario. 1056 logged hours watching stefan molyneux and that's all you have to show for us


...turn this forum into a caricature of itself - which you guys are doing a mighty fine job at if i do say so myself.


But all we see is the conjecture of not-so-closeted racists like yourself.


The employee actually is disgusted at the sight of black people and attempts to get them kicked out any chance he/she gets.


u talk a big game but we all know u are like roy moore and his jewish lawyer :o



LOL! You are the absolute worst infiltrator among your ultra progressive group on RPF. If I were your manager, then I would either cut your pay or get rid of you altogether. Geez, PRB (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?55014-PRB) is in the red rep, but he was a zillion times more skilled than you. You really stink, holmes.

PRB, get back here and show this hothead how it's done! LOL

[Influenza]

You don't know jack $#@!.
the more emotional you get the more you will be taking seriously

p.s. can someone wheel NCL back to his nursing home he seems to have gotten lose again

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

the more emotional you get the more you will be taking seriously


More lulz. Look here, trainee; you are the most emotional one in your group. You are the typical progressive who loathes religion and religious people. Now, you've just exposed your SJW sentiments. Duh. You need to practice being subtle.

I suggest you be mentored by TheCount. Now, he uses the same technique of trying to marginalize members, but he's more low key about it. Even better is to follow Zipper John. He follows certain people around, but is even more subtle.

But the absolute best at the craft is PRB. I suggest you read his posts. Practice the technique. Come back when you're more interesting.





p.s. can someone wheel NCL back to his nursing home he seems to have gotten lose again


Well, okay; that's not bad. Still a little cliched, and I think you mean nut house.

[Jan2017]

Simple solution. Have less tables and less seating.I am a Starbuck's customer regularly - during the winter at least.
Free refill, free (fast) wifi, lots of seating - open at 4:30am till 11pm - and I use the hot java + half and half with vanilla or chocolate
often enough for free food once a month or so.

They accommodate people whether they are a paying customer ordering and going - or seated while online - or just getting a water.
People may wander in to just to use the restroom but that is discouraged kinda.

But it is a business and like every other business I do not think it is usual for non-paying customers to just be able to take a seat
that a customer might prefer - one can NOT just sit in a McDonald's without buying at least a french fry ?

Why is this such big news (?) - Starbuck's didn't choose to press the trespassing charge -
oh, yeah - two POC get picked out as non-paying seated occupants that are trespassing - and were asked to leave - and refused (?)

It is probably not even the first time these two were trespassing and asked to leave (?)

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Fuck Starbucks!

Fuck the two black men.

And fuck the cops!



LOL, but yeah, I'd probably go with this! + rep!

[Influenza]

More lulz. Look here, trainee; you are the most emotional one in your group. You are the typical progressive who loathes religion and religious people. Now, you've just exposed your SJW sentiments. Duh. You need to practice being subtle.

I suggest you be mentored by TheCount. Now, he uses the same technique of trying to marginalize members, but he's more low key about it. Even better is to follow Zipper John. He follows certain people around, but is even more subtle.

But the absolute best at the craft is PRB. I suggest you read his posts. Practice the technique. Come back when you're more interesting.




Well, okay; that's not bad. Still a little cliched, and I think you mean nut house.

You are doing very well! Excellent syntax and word choice. I would like to remind you, however, the topic for discussion today is nonfiction. Nevertheless, one day I'm sure you will become a successful fantasy author! :o :o

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

You are doing very well! Excellent syntax and word choice. I would like to remind you, however, the topic for discussion today is nonfiction. Nevertheless, one day I'm sure you will become a successful fantasy author! :o :o

Yeah, I see I hit right on the money. Heh heh.

[Madison320]

Police should not exist in a free and civilized society.... Period.

Police are Enforcers of Control.. "Police" by definition are "to control"..
It is an authoritarian construct... and necessary for authoritarian society.. But has no place in a Free Society.


If you want someone off you property then man up an remove them yourself rather that some STATE Bully boys.
Responsibility,, for your actions,, and the consequences.

Calling police is a cowardly duck of responsibility.

Force exists. Get over it.


Every time I hear that silly anarchist stuff I think of the song Imagine:

"Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world"

[phill4paul]

Force exists. Get over it.


Every time I hear that silly anarchist stuff I think of the song Imagine:

"Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people sharing all the world"

Yup. Welcome to your authoritarian society in which you own NOTHING. How's that working for you?

[phill4paul]

Yup. This.

Even if it didn't calling the cops is only going to make the situation worse, even if you "win".

Starbucks now has a PR shit-storm that will cost them millions by the time it dies down.

I'm sure this action will cost several million....


Starbucks to close all company-owned stores on the afternoon of May 29 for racial-bias education day

Starbucks will close 8,000 of the company's U.S.-based locations to train 175,000 employees and address implicit bias, promote inclusion and help prevent discrimination.

Once the company has completed this training at its company-owned locations it will make the it available to its licensed partners.

The company is working with the Anti-Defamation League, the NAACP Legal Defense and Education Fund and the Equal Justice Initiative, among others to create the program.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/17/starbucks-to-close-all-stores-on-may-29-for-racial-bias-education-day.html

[specsaregood]

I'm sure this action will cost several million....


Time to hit the streets in ever major metro area and let the homeless know that starbucks will let them sit and shit at their shops without purchase.

[dannno]

I'm sure this action will cost several million....


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/17/starbucks-to-close-all-stores-on-may-29-for-racial-bias-education-day.html

It's not enough!!! (it never is)

[pcosmar]

Time to hit the streets in ever major metro area and let the homeless know that starbucks will let them sit and $#@! at their shops without purchase.

Good way to take it to the absurd extreme..

These were not homeless squatters,, They were meeting at Starbucks for business. They were about 5 minutes early and BLACK.

a second video has surfaced verifying this FACT..

Srarbucks is addressing this issue,,, Because it is an issue.. that just bit them in the butt.

Pretending this was anything other than blatant racism is disingenuous..

[pcosmar]

It's not enough!!! (it never is)

They need to serve the customer or go out of business..
Overpriced trendy business models will not last long abusing customers.

[specsaregood]

Good way to take it to the absurd extreme..

These were not homeless squatters,, They were meeting at Starbucks for business. They were about 5 minutes early and BLACK.

a second video has surfaced verifying this FACT..

Srarbucks is addressing this issue,,, Because it is an issue.. that just bit them in the butt.

Pretending this was anything other than blatant racism is disingenuous..

I guess I just don't pretend to assume what is in the hearts and mind of others. It very well could have nothing to do with race, but you've already made up your mind. My point still stands, homeless are now welcome to camp out at starbucks all day long.

[Jan2017]

I'm sure this action will cost several million....

Starbucks to close all company-owned stores on the afternoon of May 29 for racial-bias education day

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/17/starbucks-to-close-all-stores-on-may-29-for-racial-bias-education-day.html

wtf?

White or black or brown or yellow or rainbow - the color of the trespassers should not matter - but ok . . .

I think the Starbuck franchises SHOULD have a racial celebration day or sometin' - well. several -
So, a day for free coffee for whites . . . another day for free coffee for blacks . . . another day for Hispanics,
then, to be fair a seperate day free coffee for Asians.

And what the hell - toss in a seperate day for green card holders and illegal immigrants - though the barista may need to see your papers.

[Jan2017]

Pretending this was anything other than blatant racism is disingenuous..

Do you need to get verification of other race individuals getting kicked out of Starbucks or McDonalds to see that is NOT true ?
It happens ALL the time - color does not fucking matter one iota.
Their "business" meeting should be able to utilize a Starbucks without support of their reception lobby why ?
Use the wifi to arrange the business meeting or charge their cell phone while waiting - this is a colorless problem really for the restaurant.

[pcosmar]

I guess I just don't pretend to assume what is in the hearts and mind of others. It very well could have nothing to do with race, but you've already made up your mind. My point still stands, homeless are now welcome to camp out at starbucks all day long.

I have seen it often enough..

Got micky'd in a bar for protesting the same.

And experienced it myself,,, as a homeless man,, and when that was just assumed.

The second video shows the distinction between a white man and a black man asking the same question in the same place..
and the quite different response.

Starbucks is taking it serious,,, because it is a glaring problem.

Those trying to justify what Starbucks does not even try to justify is curious.

[specsaregood]

Starbucks is taking it serious,,, because it is a glaring problem.

Those trying to justify what Starbucks does not even try to justify is curious.

I'm justifying a business owner/manager asking a noncustomer to leave the premises and forcing them out when they refuse. That is all I am justifying. They got off easy in my opinion and I couldn't give one shit about race.

[pcosmar]

wtf?

White or black or brown or yellow or rainbow - the color of the trespassers should not matter - but ok . . .


They were customers in an open for business location..

They were not trespassing,, they were waiting for the other member of the party.. Who Was present at the arrest.

Having customers arrested is (AND SHOULD BE) Bad for Business.

[Jan2017]

They were customers in an open for business location..


Not involved in any business but their own , , , not buying anything - what is there legal reason to be at that restaurant conducting NO BUSINESS with that restaurant ?

This form of "trspass" happens ALL the fucking time regardless of COLOR - McDonalds or Starbucks - BLACK or white.

[pcosmar]

I'm justifying a business owner/manager asking a noncustomer to leave the premises and forcing them out when they refuse. That is all I am justifying. They got off easy in my opinion and I couldn't give one $#@! about race.

They were customers..
Customers who had not ordered YET.

Stupid move..

[Swordsmyth]

I don't know or care about this specific incident, people have a right to be bad stupid racists, people have a right to ask anyone to leave their property for any or no reason, many people are weak and not proficient in the use of weapons and it is the job of police/sheriff's deputies to protect their rights from those who violate them.

[phill4paul]

I don't know or care about this specific incident, people have a right to be bad stupid racists, people have a right to ask anyone to leave their property for any or no reason, many people are weak and not proficient in the use of weapons and it is the job of police/sheriff's deputies to protect their rights from those who violate them.

It is not.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?228509-The-Myth-of-Police-Protection

[pcosmar]

Behold

The Justifications of the Authoritarians.

[Swordsmyth]

It is not.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?228509-The-Myth-of-Police-Protection
It is supposed to be, very many things in life are not as they are supposed to be, that doesn't mean that their purpose doesn't exist it just means that they are broken.

[dannno]

They need to serve the customer or go out of business..
Overpriced trendy business models will not last long abusing customers.

Those weren't customers, they were at a 'business meeting' at the request of someone who is probably a regular customer.

Customers of starbucks like to go in, get some coffee and leave or sit in a nice quiet area.

Starbucks or not is irrelevant, because there are a lot of coffee shops just like starbucks and they aren't going anywhere. Some are chains, some are privately owned by individuals. They aren't that overpriced, you can buy good gourmet coffee for less than $2. It's the specialty drinks that are in the $3-$5 range.

[specsaregood]

They were customers..
Customers who had not ordered YET.
Stupid move..

If they hadn't ordered and weren't in line waiting to order, then they weren't fucking customers.
They could have just ordered and avoided the whole thing. I mean, that's what they were supposedly there for.

[pcosmar]

Not involved in any business but their own ,

Their business is none of yours nor Starbucks..

They were invited there for a business meeting,, by a third man,,,who was buying coffee..
They got there minutes before him and asked to use the Facilities.. They were Customers.

The management was an Ass,, and they should take their business elsewhere.

The police are only a problem. and only increased the insult.

[phill4paul]

It is supposed to be, very many things in life are not as they are supposed to be, that doesn't mean that their purpose doesn't exist it just means that they are broken.

Lol. It's not even supposed to be.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?469181-The-History-of-Policing-in-the-United-States

[specsaregood]

The management was an Ass,, and they should take their business elsewhere.


It seems to me that, that is exactly what the management was asking them to do. And then they refused...

[Swordsmyth]

Lol. It's not even supposed to be.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?469181-The-History-of-Policing-in-the-United-States

It is SUPPOSED to be their job whether some police departments were born broken or not.

[dannno]

Their business is none of yours nor Starbucks..

They were invited there for a business meeting,, by a third man,,,who was buying coffee..
They got there minutes before him and asked to use the Facilities.. They were Customers.

The management was an Ass,, and they should take their business elsewhere.

The police are only a problem. and only increased the insult.

It could have been just as easily that the so-called "customers" were the assholes... in fact I would put $$ on it. Why? Because that Starbucks had been operating for years without this issue coming up before, likely with the same set of employees. I doubt the person who kicked them out was new. Who was new to this situation? The "customers".

Like I said, if they went in quietly, sat in the corner, and asked nicely to use the restrooms without ordering anything they would have been fine. As long as they aren't bothering other customers and blend it they don't care. But if you go in and start making noise and bothering people, don't order anything, then ask to use the restroom you may get a "no".

[pcosmar]

It is supposed to be, very many things in life are not as they are supposed to be, that doesn't mean that their purpose doesn't exist it just means that they are broken.

Should not Exist..
Unconstitutional,, everything they do is a direct violation.

Authoritarian is the Polar Opposite of Libertarian.

Police have no place nor justification in a Free Society.
Their actions would be purely criminal in a free society where Rights are protected.

[Jan2017]

Their business is none of yours nor Starbucks..

They were invited there for a business meeting,, by a third man,,,who was buying coffee..
They got there minutes before him and asked to use the Facilities.. They were Customers.

The management was an Ass,, and they should take their business elsewhere.

The police are only a problem. and only increased the insult.

Private business has every liberty to have people removed who will not leave when requested -
no shirt no shoes - no service . . . don't buy anything, wander around get asked to leave - all is a fully libertarian principle.

Not conducting business with the restaurant they should never have even ever been allowed to be even seated -
makes no difference if BLACK or white.
Yes, definitely, the BLACK businessmen SHOULD take their:business of using the free reception area to another restaurant . . .
and get kicked out of there too.

Starbucks is way too accomodating to the freeloaders of all colors and creeds taking up space in the business establishment.

I advise these three to now try this in a good ole saloon - no cover charge . . .
they might find themselves looking down a barrel (?)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWNKHi2joJE

[nobody's_hero]

It seems to me that, that is exactly what the management was asking them to do. And then they refused...

They should have gotten the Starbucks police to throw them in Starbucks jail. (sorry but the thought was so funny in my head I had to post it to see how it comes out, Im' still not sold on how private police forces would ever work but I suppose there's a gazillion threads on RPF for that debate)

[pcosmar]

It could have been just as easily that they were the $#@!s... in fact I would put $$ on it. Why? Because that Starbucks had been operating for years without this issue coming up before, likely with the same set of employees. I doubt the person who kicked them out was new.

Like I said, if they went in quietly, sat in the corner, and asked nicely to use the restrooms without ordering anything they would have been fine. As long as they aren't bothering other customers and blend it they don't care. But if you go in and start making noise and bothering people, don't order anything, then ask to use the restroom you may get a "no".
Dude,,, watch the video that came out one day later.. White guy and black guy ask to use bathroom.... with clearly different results...

and tell me again that you honestly don't see it...


I hate racism.. I do not accept the ridiculous concept of race,,,

But clearly a Phuck of a LOT of people do. and it is on display here.

[Swordsmyth]

Should not Exist..
Unconstitutional,, everything they do is a direct violation.

Authoritarian is the Polar Opposite of Libertarian.

Police have no place nor justification in a Free Society.
Their actions would be purely criminal in a free society where Rights are protected.
Not everybody is big and strong and proficient with weapons, law enforcement exists to protect their rights in an ideal world, a world without law enforcement is a jungle where only the strong have rights.

[phill4paul]

It is SUPPOSED to be their job whether some police departments were born broken or not.

Lol. Their job is not to protect you nor me. They are here to protect the state and the corporatocracy that controls the state. Please read through both the threads I linked before responding.

[pcosmar]

Not everybody is big and strong and proficient with weapons, law enforcement exists to protect their rights in an ideal world, a world without law enforcement is a jungle where only the strong have rights.

No they don't..

They were hired by people too cowardly to enforce the law themselves.
They were hired to enforce BAD Laws on people who would not enforce those Bad Laws themselves.

They are there to extort money and to enforce control on those deemed lessor.

The rest is Police State propaganda.

[dannno]

Dude,,, watch the video that came out one day later.. White guy and black guy ask to use bathroom.... with clearly different results...

and tell me again that you honestly don't see it...


I hate racism.. I do not accept the ridiculous concept of race,,,

But clearly a Phuck of a LOT of people do. and it is on display here.


Which video? This one?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hdoui9HUi4


Incidentally, nobody involved in that video is white, and all I see is a black guy making a scene in a Starbucks.. Is there possibly another reason they didn't give him the bathroom code? Was he planning on making a purchase? The other guy didn't make a purchase first, but he planned on making one after. Maybe they are good at guessing who is going to make a purchase, or maybe they let people use the restroom who are quiet and unassuming if they haven't made a purchase because they don't distract other customers.

Do you hear how quiet it is in there the entire time except for when he is screaming?

Coffee places have chill vibes, I've been going to coffee shops like that for almost 30 years. I used to go watch live jazz and drink blended coffee at a nice coffee shop when there were less than 116 Starbucks in the whole country.

If you don't blend in with the ambiance, they aren't going to let you use the bathroom if you don't buy something.. and blending in has nothing to do with skin color.

[Anti Federalist]

I could not possibly care less about the ethnic angle of this whole thing.

Given the location and employer, I'd be willing to wager good money, that whoever made the call to the cops to have these guys run off is not a heterosexual white man with latent bigoted tendencies.

Again, the only thing I want to impress on people is Do Not Call Cops.

Ever.

For anything.

It's almost always going to turn out badly for all involved.

Especially if the conflict has anything at all to do with any of the Protected Untouchable Classes.

How much better all this would have turned out if the worry was that a crime was about to happen, armed shopkeepers would have had a measure of security, would have no reason to escalate anything, and everybody would have gone about their business with no fuss.

But of course that's prohibited by Starbucks and Philadelphia.

And now they'll both pay out millions.

Idiots.

[phill4paul]

I guess my white privilege means never asking to use a restroom. I just do it. Of course there has been times when I was forced to because of a keyed door. There was that time I had to carry a cinder block with a chain and key attached at a rural gas station. The owner had got tired of people walking away with the key. <shrug>

[Anti Federalist]

Which video? This one?

Incidentally, nobody involved in that video is white, and all I see is a black guy making a scene in a Starbucks..

Is there possibly another reason they didn't give him the bathroom code? Was he planning on making a purchase? The other guy didn't make a purchase first, but he planned on making one after. Maybe they are good at guessing who is going to make a purchase, or maybe they let people use the restroom who are quiet and unassuming if they haven't made a purchase because they don't distract other customers.

Do you hear how quiet it is in there the entire time except for when he is screaming?

Coffee places have chill vibes, I've been going to coffee shops like that for almost 30 years. I used to go watch live jazz and drink blended coffee at a nice coffee shop when there were less than 116 Starbucks in the whole country.

Is that video from Philly of this incident, or a different incident?

Do I win my bet already?

[dannno]

I guess my white privilege means never asking to use a restroom. I just do it. Of course there has been times when I was forced to because of a keyed door. There was that time I had to carry a cinder block with a chain and key attached at a rural gas station. The owner had got tired of people walking away with the key. <shrug>

Most Starbucks have a 4 digit code you have to get from the barista, I believe that was the case here.

[Anti Federalist]

I guess my white privilege means never asking to use a restroom. I just do it. Of course there has been times when I was forced to because of a keyed door. There was that time I had to carry a cinder block with a chain and key attached at a rural gas station. The owner had got tired of people walking away with the key. <shrug>

I'm pretty sure these are keycoded shut.

Your receipt will have a daily code printed on it to punch in to get access to the Casa de Miedre

[dannno]

Is that video from Philly of this incident, or a different incident?

Do I win my bet already?

I have no idea, Pete said he saw a video the day after, I have no idea if he is talking about this incident or another one at another starbucks or what.

[phill4paul]

I could not possibly care less about the ethnic angle of this whole thing.

Given the location and employer, I'd be willing to wager good money, that whoever made the call to the cops to have these guys run off is not a heterosexual white man with latent bigoted tendencies.

Again, the only thing I want to impress on people is Do Not Call Cops.

Ever.

For anything.

It's almost always going to turn out badly for all involved.

Especially if the conflict has anything at all to do with any of the Protected Untouchable Classes.

How much better all this would have turned out if the worry was that a crime was about to happen, armed shopkeepers would have had a measure of security, would have no reason to escalate anything, and everybody would have gone about their business with no fuss.

But of course that's prohibited by Starbucks and Philadelphia.

And now they'll both pay out millions.

Idiots.

The manager may have learned his lesson....


Starbucks manager leaves company after calling police on two black men

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/383388-starbucks-manager-who-called-police-on-two-black-men-leaves-company

[phill4paul]

Most Starbucks have a 4 digit code you have to get from the barista, I believe that was the case here.


I'm pretty sure these are keycoded shut.

Your receipt will have a daily code printed on it to punch in to get access to the Casa de Miedre

No shit? :eek:

:D

[Jan2017]

They should have gotten the Starbucks police to throw them in Starbucks jail. (sorry but the thought was so funny in my head I had to post it to see how it comes out, Im' still not sold on how private police forces would ever work but I suppose there's a gazillion threads on RPF for that debate)

or the "barista" pull a gun out from under the bar . . .

or try it in a rec cannabis dispensary . . . just sit and don't buy anything but enjoy the aroma - FREE space for BLACKS to do business.

[Anti Federalist]

No shit? :eek:

:D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yuL6PcgSgM

[pcosmar]

Not everybody is big and strong and proficient with weapons, law enforcement exists to protect their rights in an ideal world, a world without law enforcement is a jungle where only the strong have rights.

Wow...what complete and utter bullshit..

It is known that I was in Prison. I am not a large man..5'8'' 125-130lbs while I was in.. I am neither big nor powerful.

I was placed in Protective Custody twice.. Seems I offended someone. a couple times.

The first time it took a week to get out and back into population (and the limited freedom allowed)
I had 25 years on my head,, I wasn't going to spend it in a cell.

The second time,, it took two weeks,, I offended the Aryans. .
It took 2 weeks and a couple review boards,, I finally had to sign a release of responsibility.. absolving the Department of corrections for any responsibility related to my decision..

I walked with my life in my own hands and Guards knew I was not to be "protected".
I walk under the protection of God. And with 20 years on my head I was walking in and out of Moberly Training Center for Men,, Unescorted, unsupervised,, I came and went.. I mowed lawns,, did grounds keeping and was a volunteer Firefighter.

as a convict..

I did not forget my education now that I am a Free Man. But I walked the Yard of the Missouri State Penitentiary just as free.

I have no silly illusions about police protecting anything.

[Swordsmyth]

I could not possibly care less about the ethnic angle of this whole thing.

Given the location and employer, I'd be willing to wager good money, that whoever made the call to the cops to have these guys run off is not a heterosexual white man with latent bigoted tendencies.

Again, the only thing I want to impress on people is Do Not Call Cops.

Ever.

For anything.

It's almost always going to turn out badly for all involved.

Especially if the conflict has anything at all to do with any of the Protected Untouchable Classes.

How much better all this would have turned out if the worry was that a crime was about to happen, armed shopkeepers would have had a measure of security, would have no reason to escalate anything, and everybody would have gone about their business with no fuss.

But of course that's prohibited by Starbucks and Philadelphia.

And now they'll both pay out millions.

Idiots.
I hear you loud and clear but what if two black men entered and refused to leave a shop owned by an armed citizen but didn't do anything else, what is he/she supposed to do? Shoot them?
The owner can't physically eject them because there are more of them than him and it would be called assault anyway, if they end up shot for refusing to leave the owner will be charged with murder, if the owner lets anyone who wants to take up space without doing business it will create a magnet for bums and criminals.
Calling the kops might just seem like the best option.
These days there might not be a good option.

[Madison320]

Dude,,, watch the video that came out one day later.. White guy and black guy ask to use bathroom.... with clearly different results...

and tell me again that you honestly don't see it...


I hate racism.. I do not accept the ridiculous concept of race,,,

But clearly a Phuck of a LOT of people do. and it is on display here.

Do you think racism should be illegal?

[Swordsmyth]

Wow...what complete and utter bull$#@!..

It is known that I was in Prison. I am not a large man..5'8'' 125-130lbs while I was in.. I am neither big nor powerful.

I was placed in Protective Custody twice.. Seems I offended someone. a couple times.

The first time it took a week to get out and back into population (and the limited freedom allowed)
I had 25 years on my head,, I wasn't going to spend it in a cell.

The second time,, it took two weeks,, I offended the Aryans. .
It took 2 weeks and a couple review boards,, I finally had to sign a release of responsibility.. absolving the Department of corrections for any responsibility related to my decision..

I walked with my life in my own hands and Guards knew I was not to be "protected".
I walk under the protection of God. And with 20 years on my head I was walking in and out of Moberly Training Center for Men,, Unescorted, unsupervised,, I came and went.. I mowed lawns,, did grounds keeping and was a volunteer Firefighter.

as a convict..

I did not forget my education now that I am a Free Man. But I walked the Yard of the Missouri State Penitentiary just as free.

I have no silly illusions about police protecting anything.

There are people weaker than you, their rights matter.

[Madison320]

I could not possibly care less about the ethnic angle of this whole thing.

Given the location and employer, I'd be willing to wager good money, that whoever made the call to the cops to have these guys run off is not a heterosexual white man with latent bigoted tendencies.

Again, the only thing I want to impress on people is Do Not Call Cops.

Ever.

For anything.

It's almost always going to turn out badly for all involved.

Especially if the conflict has anything at all to do with any of the Protected Untouchable Classes.

How much better all this would have turned out if the worry was that a crime was about to happen, armed shopkeepers would have had a measure of security, would have no reason to escalate anything, and everybody would have gone about their business with no fuss.

But of course that's prohibited by Starbucks and Philadelphia.

And now they'll both pay out millions.

Idiots.

Are you an anarchist?

[Swordsmyth]

or the "barista" pull a gun out from under the bar . . .

or try it in a rec cannabis dispensary . . . just sit and don't buy anything but enjoy the aroma - FREE space for BLACKS to do business.

If that had happened the barista would have gone to jail and the headlines and lawsuit would be even more hysterical.

[dannno]

Are you an anarchist?

I don't think AF would mind Andy Griffith.

[Anti Federalist]

I hear you loud and clear but what if two black men entered and refused to leave a shop owned by an armed citizen but didn't do anything else, what is he/she supposed to do? Shoot them?
The owner can't physically eject them because there are more of them than him and it would be called assault anyway, if they end up shot for refusing to leave the owner will be charged with murder, if the owner lets anyone who wants to take up space without doing business it will create a magnet for bums and criminals.
Calling the kops might just seem like the best option.
These days there might not be a good option.

Yes, many times there will be no good options.

In this case simply going over and talking to these guys may have de-escalated the whole scenario.

Nobody would have lost their job, or possibly their life, if the cops had run amok, as they often do, or the foaming at the mouth internet Bolsheviks get their hands on whoever this was that called the cops.

No multi million dollar PR nightmare for Starbucks.

No multi million dollar "discrimination" suit that the ever fucked taxpayers of Philadelphia will have to settle up with.

Calling cops is always the last, worst option and to be avoided at all costs.

[pcosmar]

I have no idea, Pete said he saw a video the day after, I have no idea if he is talking about this incident or another one at another starbucks or what.

Another,, another Starbuck I believe.. Same overall result. Video recorded earlier this year,,
http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2018/04/second-racist-starbucks-video-emerges.html

[pcosmar]

I don't think AF would mind Andy Griffith.

Was Fiction.. but a nice fiction.

I would not mind a world a bit closer to that..

But my observation is that the free world is turning into the Main Yard at a prison.

[Swordsmyth]

Yes, many times there will be no good options.

In this case simply going over and talking to these guys may have de-escalated the whole scenario.

Nobody would have lost their job, or possibly their life, if the cops had run amok, as they often do, or the foaming at the mouth internet Bolsheviks get their hands on whoever this was that called the cops.

No multi million dollar PR nightmare for Starbucks.

No multi million dollar "discrimination" suit that the ever $#@!ed taxpayers of Philadelphia will have to settle up with.

Calling cops is always the last, worst option and to be avoided at all costs.

Trying to deal reasonably with people is a must and you should try almost everything else before calling the kops, but calling the kops might sometimes be a better option than shooting people or assaulting them yourself.

[phill4paul]

I hear you loud and clear but what if two black men entered and refused to leave a shop owned by an armed citizen but didn't do anything else, what is he/she supposed to do? Shoot them?
The owner can't physically eject them because there are more of them than him and it would be called assault anyway, if they end up shot for refusing to leave the owner will be charged with murder, if the owner lets anyone who wants to take up space without doing business it will create a magnet for bums and criminals.
Calling the kops might just seem like the best option.
These days there might not be a good option.

The very laws and law enforcers you so believe in, is the very reason a business owner cannot shoot others for trespassing. Whereas, in our "anarchy" property rights would be respected and if an owner told you to leave...you would. By your own two feet. Walking or dragged.

"God Created Men and Sam Colt Made Them Equal!”

[Anti Federalist]

Are you an anarchist?

If you mean by anarchist: Do I believe that mankind should work toward the day when the concept of a monopoly of violence exercised against the people by the state, in order to keep them in line, is as outmoded and repugnant as chattel slavery, then yes, I am an anarchist.

In the here and now reality, I have seen, over many years, documented by me ad nauseum on this site, the multitudes of incidents where calling cops into an otherwise benign situation has escalated, solely by the cop's presence, into a killing cluster fuck, enough times to allow me to state with no hesitation or equivocation, Do Not Call Cops.

[pcosmar]

Are you an anarchist?

Why is it that anyone who calls for a Damn Leash on Out of Control Authoritarians is labeled as an anarchist?

What about LIMITED Government do you not understand..?

[Swordsmyth]

The very laws and law enforcers you so believe in, is the very reason a business owner cannot shoot others for trespassing. Whereas, in our "anarchy" property rights would be respected and if an owner told you to leave...you would.
And the weak can just eat it, right?
The laws need to be reformed so that you can shoot trespassers and thieves but even if that happened there would be people too old/sick/weak/clumsy to protect themselves.

[pcosmar]

Trying to deal reasonably with people is a must and you should try almost everything else before calling the kops, but calling the kops might sometimes be a better option than shooting people or assaulting them yourself.

Never.
Personal responsibility.. Police are a cowards duck from responsibility.

[Anti Federalist]

Was Fiction.. but a nice fiction.

I would not mind a world a bit closer to that..

But my observation is that the free world is turning into the Main Yard at a prison.

My world in small town New England is very much like that, warts and all.

Which is why I get upset at those who insist it must be eliminated, for any number of reasons that "theye" give, all of which are bullshit.

[phill4paul]

Are you an anarchist?

I can answer that for him. With about 99.9% accuracy. We'll see if I'm wrong.

Anarchy: a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority.

AF doesn't believe in disorder due to the absence or non-recognition of authority.

He believes in: order due to the recognition and presence of individual authority over the authority of the state or those who would use the state over the authority of the individual.

[pcosmar]

And the weak can just eat it, right?
The laws need to be reformed so that you can shoot trespassers and thieves but even if that happened there would be people too old/sick/weak/clumsy to protect themselves.

They can arm themselves,, they can hire security.. if it is really needed...

No one should ever expect someone else to do it for them. except perhaps babies.

[Swordsmyth]

Never.
Personal responsibility.. Police are a cowards duck from responsibility.
So anyone who can't deal with a gang of violent criminal types who may outnumber them as well as being perhaps stronger and better armed by themselves just gets Darwined in your ideal world?

[Madison320]

I hear you loud and clear but what if two black men entered and refused to leave a shop owned by an armed citizen but didn't do anything else, what is he/she supposed to do? Shoot them?
The owner can't physically eject them because there are more of them than him and it would be called assault anyway, if they end up shot for refusing to leave the owner will be charged with murder, if the owner lets anyone who wants to take up space without doing business it will create a magnet for bums and criminals.
Calling the kops might just seem like the best option.
These days there might not be a good option.

I agree.

What anarchists don't understand is that force ALWAYS exists. With no "official" police force the vacuum will be filled by the biggest force in the area. In the absence of a police force Starbucks wouldn't exist because they'd be "policed" by the local warlord. Nobody would invest in a business of any size if they had to secure their own property rights.

I saw parts of a docudrama on Netflix called "Surviving Escobar" recently. One reason there was so much violence in Colombia was because they had "competition" in governments. They had a weak but officially recognized government, they had the FARC (left wing guerrillas), they had the Narcos like Escobar, and they had the paramilitaries. All of the alternate governments were financed by the huge profits in the drug trade so they were all just as powerful as the "official" government. In that scenario disputes are settled by force, not a courtroom. It was an anarchist paradise. They also had one of the highest murder rates in the world.

[Swordsmyth]

They can arm themselves,, they can hire security.. if it is really needed...

No one should ever expect someone else to do it for them. except perhaps babies.
Let the poor and the weak die, they don't deserve to live anyway?

[phill4paul]

And the weak can just eat it, right?
The laws need to be reformed so that you can shoot trespassers and thieves but even if that happened there would be people too old/sick/weak/clumsy to protect themselves.

You're starting to sound like a liberal. Are you a liberal? Government is created to support those too old/sick/weak/clumsy to support themselves?

[pcosmar]

My world in small town New England is very much like that, warts and all.

Which is why I get upset at those who insist it must be eliminated, for any number of reasons that "theye" give, all of which are bull$#@!.

I remember a small Island with no police. kids rode motorcycles without helmets and everything.
I remember weeks without shoes.

but even that place is gone now.

[Swordsmyth]

You're starting to sound like a liberal. Are you a liberal? Government is created to support those too old/sick/weak/clumsy to support themselves?
To protect NOT to support, there is a major difference.

[pcosmar]

Let the poor and the weak die, they don't deserve to live anyway?

The National Socialism you are promoting has gone there before.

You said it.. Not me.

[phill4paul]

I agree.

What anarchists don't understand is that force ALWAYS exists. With no "official" police force the vacuum will be filled by the biggest force in the area. In the absence of a police force Starbucks wouldn't exist because they'd be "policed" by the local warlord. Nobody would invest in a business of any size if they had to secure their own property rights.

I saw parts of a docudrama on Netflix called "Surviving Escobar" recently. One reason there was so much violence in Colombia was because they had "competition" in governments. They had a weak but officially recognized government, they had the FARC (left wing guerrillas), they had the Narcos like Escobar, and they had the paramilitaries. All of the alternate governments were financed by the huge profits in the drug trade so they were all just as powerful as the "official" government. In that scenario disputes are settled by force, not a courtroom. It was an anarchist paradise. They also had one of the highest murder rates in the world.

Tell me of these "property rights." What is it you own that the biggest warlord on the block, the state and Federal government, can't take from you?

[Madison320]

They can arm themselves,, they can hire security.. if it is really needed...

No one should ever expect someone else to do it for them. except perhaps babies.

In that scenario you'd still have a government. It would be whatever group was able to gather up enough force to dominate a given area.

[Swordsmyth]

The National Socialism you are promoting has gone there before.

You said it.. Not me.

LOL, I want reformed sheriff's deputies or police and now I am a NAZI, you are the one advocating that the law of Darwin should rule our land.

[phill4paul]

To protect NOT to support, there is a major difference.

No, there is not.

[Madison320]

Tell me of these "property rights." What is it you own that the biggest warlord on the block, the state and Federal government, can't take from you?

The choices are a crappy US-like government, or a really, really crappy government like North Korea or Colombia. Paradise on Earth is not one of the choices.

[pcosmar]

In that scenario you'd still have a government. It would be whatever group was able to gather up enough force to dominate a given area.

Commonly known as "We The People".

And you are the one making the false accusation that I support anarchy.... repeatedly... incessantly..

I am not an anarchist.. Precisely because to do not believe that anarchy can exist past momentary chaos.
I do believe that Government is EVIL...and also necessary due to human nature.
Therefore ,, I believe in Limited Government.. very tightly leashed because it is inherently EVIL.

Evil does not ever like to be limited.
Evil begs for more government,, more power,, more police,, more control,,,

NO.. I am not an anarchist.. I am Anti-Authoritarian.

[Swordsmyth]

The choices are a crappy US-like government, or a really, really crappy government like North Korea or Colombia. Paradise on Earth is not one of the choices.
We might be able to improve on the crappy US-like government a little but we will have little success while "libertarians" brag about preferring the law of the jungle and "devil take the hindmost".

[nobody's_hero]

I agree.

What anarchists don't understand is that force ALWAYS exists. .

Indeed, it's human nature. Government tends to legitimize it, in many ways, but without it . . .

I'm still picturing Starbucks police versus the Loitering People police. Who will win?

I think Starbucks police would win. The Loitering People police would just stand there not doing anything. Who knows, though? It could be an epic fight. Then the Philadelphia police would show up and each team would compete to offer the best service at the lowest price. People would vote with their wallets, and then the proceeds could be used to replace any police who were maimed during the fighting. It seems to be a fairly solid business model.

[VIDEODROME]

http://www.okmoviequotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/701-Idiocracy-quotes.png

[Swordsmyth]

Indeed, it's human nature. Government tends to legitimize it, in many ways, but without it . . .

I'm still picturing Starbucks police versus the Loitering People police. Who will win?

I think Starbucks police would win. The Loitering People police would just stand there not doing anything. Who knows, though? It could be an epic fight. Then the Philadelphia police would show up and each team would compete to offer the best service at the lowest price. People would vote with their wallets, and then the proceeds could be used to replace any police who were maimed during the fighting. It seems to be a fairly solid business model.
All you would get is gang warfare and multiple protection rackets forcing people to pay for their services.

[Swordsmyth]

Anti Federalist

Supposedly Racist Manager 'Is An SJW Feminist Of The Highest Order' (https://www.dailywire.com/news/29557/philadelphia-starbucks-customer-supposedly-racist-ben-shapiro?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=idealmedia&utm_campaign=dailywire.com&utm_term=68731&utm_content=2222474)

[timosman]

All you would get is gang warfare and multiple protection rackets forcing people to pay for their services.

Couldn't we just send them to sensitivity trainings? This would fix things. That's the current line of thinking anyway.

[dannno]

@Anti Federalist (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=3169)

Supposedly Racist Manager 'Is An SJW Feminist Of The Highest Order' (https://www.dailywire.com/news/29557/philadelphia-starbucks-customer-supposedly-racist-ben-shapiro?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=idealmedia&utm_campaign=dailywire.com&utm_term=68731&utm_content=2222474)





Once I even overheard her scorn a male barista for not using the proper neutral pronouns with somebody.

This patron explained that Holly “is not racist and doesn’t deserve what is happening to her here in Philly.” The patrons of the Starbucks are “both black and white, and I’ve personally seen Holly give the oh-so-coveted restroom code to both black and white people, patrons and non-patrons. I’ve seen her train both black and white staff members and she has been nothing but nice to everyone, and I’ve never witnessed any racist behavior.”


@Influenza (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?49112-Influenza)

You wanna call me racist again, you fuckin asshole??

I mean, how dare I suggest that the reason they were asked to leave wasn't because of their skin color, but due to their behavior??

[Anti Federalist]

Anti Federalist

Supposedly Racist Manager 'Is An SJW Feminist Of The Highest Order' (https://www.dailywire.com/news/29557/philadelphia-starbucks-customer-supposedly-racist-ben-shapiro?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=idealmedia&utm_campaign=dailywire.com&utm_term=68731&utm_content=2222474)

Oh that is precious...couldn't have happened to nicer person.

[Anti Federalist]

I can answer that for him. With about 99.9% accuracy. We'll see if I'm wrong.

Anarchy: a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority.

AF doesn't believe in disorder due to the absence or non-recognition of authority.

He believes in: order due to the recognition and presence of individual authority over the authority of the state or those who would use the state over the authority of the individual.

Bing-fucking-go

[Anti Federalist]

It was an anarchist paradise. They also had one of the highest murder rates in the world.

Freedom is messy.

I doubt that North Korea has much violent "street crime" for instance.

If you were to give cops unlimited plenipotentiary power to search, seize, arrest and execute on the spot, I reckon you would see a decrease in violent street crime.

Is that a society you want to live in?

It's not one I want to live in.

Let me close by asking a question back: do you disagree with my notion to not ever call cops and if so, why?

[specsaregood]

Anti Federalist

Supposedly Racist Manager 'Is An SJW Feminist Of The Highest Order' (https://www.dailywire.com/news/29557/philadelphia-starbucks-customer-supposedly-racist-ben-shapiro?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=idealmedia&utm_campaign=dailywire.com&utm_term=68731&utm_content=2222474)

That's hardly a reliable source. An unnamed supposed frequent customer that supposedly writes into a right-wing talking head? I wouldn't get too excited by those claims.

[Brian4Liberty]

All of this commotion over a typical human interaction. What a pathetic state of affairs. Boycott a huge corporation because two people most likely got into an ego battle.

Unless there were multiple camera angles with sensitive microphones from the moment they walked in until they were taken away, we will never know exactly what occurred. And we will NEVER know what was going on in people's minds, despite hysteria to the contrary. What we have now is a little bit of out of context video and an undisputed general outline (guy wanted to use restroom, wasn't given code because he hadn't bought anything, they refused to leave, Police were called, Police removed them).

Everyone likes to speculate on what happened, and what secret thoughts were going on in people's heads. As a matter of fact, that is the basis for this manufactured outrage. Apparently magical mind reading tells everyone that there was a ungood racist thought in someone's head, and now the entire corporation must suffer.

As far as scenarios go, it's always fun to speculate, although that speculation is often wrong.

Here's a scenario that writes itself. All you need is the cast of characters and some stereotypes:

Actor 1 - Starbuck's manager with petty tyrant syndrome.
Actor 2 - Black man with a chip on his shoulder.
Actor 3 - The Police. Standard rules of engagement apply.
Actor 4 - Business man who wanted to meet the two guys there who wants to make a scene and a Federal case out of it.

The script writes itself.

[Anti Federalist]

That's hardly a reliable source. An unnamed supposed frequent customer that supposedly writes into a right-wing talking head? I wouldn't get too excited by those claims.

Not hard to believe though, is it?

That the behind the counter help at Starbucks, in a trendy urban location, is a SJW type?

[specsaregood]

Not hard to believe though, is it?

That the behind the counter help at Starbucks, in a trendy urban location, is a SJW type?

Not at all, I just wouldn't get all smug about what is likely a bullshit story.

[dannno]

Not hard to believe though, is it?

That the behind the counter help at Starbucks, in a trendy urban location, is a SJW type?

Smart money is on SJW.

[Anti Federalist]

They were trespassing. There is no inalienable right to sit in a Starbucks; if the manager asks you to leave, you should leave. Philadelphia Police Commissioner Richard Ross has drawn criticism for defending the officers who made the arrests, but the cops did what they were supposed to do, given the situation. The mistake was the decision to call the cops in the first place.

http://reason.com/blog/2018/04/17/starbucks-philadelphia-racism-cops

[Swordsmyth]

Philadelphia police have released a recording of the call from the Starbucks employee that led to the arrest of two black men.
In the recording, a woman is heard saying, "Hi, I have two gentlemen in my cafe that are refusing to make a purchase or leave." She gives the address of the Starbucks store, and the entire call lasts less than 30 seconds.
Starbucks said Tuesday that the employee who made the call no longer works at the store, but declined to give details.
In the communications between police and dispatch that were also released, someone refers to the situation as a "disturbance," and additional officers are sent.

More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/latest-starbucks-says-ceo-met-2-men-arrested-144419373.html

[Anti Federalist]

Philadelphia police have released a recording of the call from the Starbucks employee that led to the arrest of two black men.
In the recording, a woman is heard saying, "Hi, I have two gentlemen in my cafe that are refusing to make a purchase or leave." She gives the address of the Starbucks store, and the entire call lasts less than 30 seconds.
Starbucks said Tuesday that the employee who made the call no longer works at the store, but declined to give details.
In the communications between police and dispatch that were also released, someone refers to the situation as a "disturbance," and additional officers are sent.

More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/latest-starbucks-says-ceo-met-2-men-arrested-144419373.html

I'll bet good money on two things now:

A - That whoever made that call was in fact a SJW.

B - That there is written policy in the Starbucks franchise manual that specifically states to "call the cops" in a situation like this and not to engage or talk to or try to de-escalate. "Safety First"!

[Swordsmyth]

I'll bet good money on two things now:

A - That whoever made that call was in fact a SJW.

B - That there is written policy in the Starbucks franchise manual that specifically states to "call the cops" in a situation like this and not to engage or talk to or try to de-escalate. "Safety First"!

I would add C: The two men were looking for a chance to scream RACISM or they would have bought some cheap item.
I was once asked to make a purchase or leave a store, I bought a $1 cookie and that was the end of it.

[dannno]

That's hardly a reliable source. An unnamed supposed frequent customer that supposedly writes into a right-wing talking head? I wouldn't get too excited by those claims.

To be fair, they probably tried getting the word out to multiple outlets but a right-wing publication was the only one that wanted to pick it up.

[Madison320]

Freedom is messy.

I doubt that North Korea has much violent "street crime" for instance.

If you were to give cops unlimited plenipotentiary power to search, seize, arrest and execute on the spot, I reckon you would see a decrease in violent street crime.

Is that a society you want to live in?

It's not one I want to live in.

Let me close by asking a question back: do you disagree with my notion to not ever call cops and if so, why?

Yes. Suppose someone decides to park on my front lawn and they refuse to move when I ask them. I'd call the cops. If I take the law into my own hands, it would eventually become a government matter anyway.

[Madison320]

Indeed, it's human nature. Government tends to legitimize it, in many ways, but without it . . .

I'm still picturing Starbucks police versus the Loitering People police. Who will win?

I think Starbucks police would win. The Loitering People police would just stand there not doing anything. Who knows, though? It could be an epic fight. Then the Philadelphia police would show up and each team would compete to offer the best service at the lowest price. People would vote with their wallets, and then the proceeds could be used to replace any police who were maimed during the fighting. It seems to be a fairly solid business model.

I agree. What could possibly go wrong?

[Madison320]

Their business is none of yours nor Starbucks..



This is what bother me. It's Starbuck's property so it is Starbuck's business. It's anti property right attitudes like this, on a supposedly libertarian website, that's disturbing. Property rights exist, even for evil big businesses.



It reminds me of articles like this:

"Starbucks did it. Is it OK to kick you out of a store?"

"Under what circumstances can a clerk or other employee order a person to leave a store?"

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/04/18/starbucks-philadelphia-arrests-raise-question-ever-ok-kick-someone-out-your-store-sometimes-but-race/521750002/

[nikcers]

They gotta clear the store of non customers so customers come in to the store. No one has time to go into a Starbucks full of people and spend 15 minutes getting coffee. You gotta look at the corporate response to the millennial culture of not liking to touch raw meat and waiting in line. In the end though at least you can have 20 baconaters delivered to your door with the push of a button on your phone.

[Madison320]

Another,, another Starbuck I believe.. Same overall result. Video recorded earlier this year,,
http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2018/04/second-racist-starbucks-video-emerges.html

Do you think racism should be illegal?

[nikcers]

Do you think racism should be illegal?
Can you scientifically measure the racism or qualify it somehow? Is this the type of racism that gets people to methodologically start secret societies and install their members in positions of power all around the world and carry out genocide or just plain ole I don't like someone who is a stranger to me standing behind me while I am at the ATM racism?

[nobody's_hero]

I wonder what would happen if I open-carried into a Starbucks, was asked to leave, and didn't.

[Anti Federalist]

Yes. Suppose someone decides to park on my front lawn and they refuse to move when I ask them. I'd call the cops. If I take the law into my own hands, it would eventually become a government matter anyway.

I disagree.

[pcosmar]

Do you think racism should be illegal?

In personal belief,,no.
In public practice..yes..

And if it is YOUR belief,, then it becomes YOUR Responsibility to avoid contact with offensive "races".. and you would have no place in a free and open society... by your own hand.

Your own beliefs would force you to leave,, rather than interact...

Personally I liken Racism to mental illness.

not illegal,, but not healthy either.

[Anti Federalist]

This is what bother me. It's Starbuck's property so it is Starbuck's business. It's anti property right attitudes like this, on a supposedly libertarian website, that's disturbing. Property rights exist, even for evil big businesses.



It reminds me of articles like this:

"Starbucks did it. Is it OK to kick you out of a store?"

"Under what circumstances can a clerk or other employee order a person to leave a store?"

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/04/18/starbucks-philadelphia-arrests-raise-question-ever-ok-kick-someone-out-your-store-sometimes-but-race/521750002/

I don't disagree with this.

Yes, they had every right to run these guys off, for any reason or no reason at all.

Was it the correct thing to do, and was it correct to call the cops and get them involved.

Or maybe productive might be a better word, since none of this nonsense is "correct".

Trying to run a business in today's environment is next to impossible, trying to placate every grievance group out there.

Unless you're willing to tell the Internet Outrage Squads to fuck off on a daily basis.

You're in business to make money, and this is going to cost millions and millions by the time those Internet Outrage Squads move on to some other new calamity.

Starbucks won the battle but lost the war, like bad safe crackers using explosives to open a safe door and blowing up the money inside.

Yeah, they got the door open, but to what advantage?

[Madison320]

I disagree.

What would you do?

[Valli6]

Kind of surprised that no one in the media thought about whether the big strong men were bullying a small female Starbucks employee with their patriarchal attitude... She may be experiencing all kinds of PTSD right now. :rolleyes: If she had a more popular skin color, she would get to be the victim here.

[Madison320]

In personal belief,,no.
In public practice..yes..

And if it is YOUR belief,, then it becomes YOUR Responsibility to avoid contact with offensive "races".. and you would have no place in a free and open society... by your own hand.

Your own beliefs would force you to leave,, rather than interact...

Personally I liken Racism to mental illness.

not illegal,, but not healthy either.

I don't understand your answer. If Starbucks put up a sign that said "No Blacks Allowed In Store", should that be illegal in your opinion?

[Madison320]

Kind of surprised that no one in the media thought about whether the big strong men were bullying a small female Starbucks employee with their patriarchal attitude... She may be experiencing all kinds of PTSD right now. :rolleyes: If she had a more popular skin color, she would get to be the victim here.

99% of the articles don't mention the gender of the manager. It messes up the narrative.

[nobody's_hero]

I don't understand your answer. If Starbucks put up a sign that said "No Blacks Allowed In Store", should that be illegal in your opinion?

"Bake that cake!"

[Madison320]

I don't disagree with this.

Yes, they had every right to run these guys off, for any reason or no reason at all.

Was it the correct thing to do, and was it correct to call the cops and get them involved.

Or maybe productive might be a better word, since none of this nonsense is "correct".

Trying to run a business in today's environment is next to impossible, trying to placate every grievance group out there.

Unless you're willing to tell the Internet Outrage Squads to $#@! off on a daily basis.

You're in business to make money, and this is going to cost millions and millions by the time those Internet Outrage Squads move on to some other new calamity.

Starbucks won the battle but lost the war, like bad safe crackers using explosives to open a safe door and blowing up the money inside.

Yeah, they got the door open, but to what advantage?

I agree with a lot of this but what should Starbucks do? They're in a no-win situation. If they let non-customers hang out, it'll drive out paying customers. The real outrage is the fact that Starbucks doesn't really own their business.

[pcosmar]

I don't understand your answer. If Starbucks put up a sign that said "No Blacks Allowed In Store", should that be illegal in your opinion?

Illegal?

I don't really think that way..

I certainly would not want or allow such in my community. and may be forced to take action if such stupidity could not be mediated..

I would burn the bastard out.. Perhaps shoot him dead in the street as an example,, if he interfered.

But then it would expose my area of intolerance.

[timosman]

Illegal?

I don't really think that way..

I certainly would not want or allow such in my community. and may be forced to take action if such stupidity could not be mediated..

I would burn the bastard out.. Perhaps shoot him dead in the street as an example,, if he interfered.

But then it would expose my area of intolerance.

Are you trying to get RPF in a hot water by admitting you are a violent person and ready to kill and burn? :confused:

[Madison320]

Illegal?

I don't really think that way..

I certainly would not want or allow such in my community. and may be forced to take action if such stupidity could not be mediated..

I would burn the bastard out.. Perhaps shoot him dead in the street as an example,, if he interfered.

But then it would expose my area of intolerance.

So if Starbucks in your neighborhood put up a "No Blacks" sign you'd take action against them? What kind of action?

Who would you shoot dead in the street? I'm not sure who you're referring to.

[Anti Federalist]

What would you do?

Everything I possibly could, before calling cops, even to the point of ignoring it, unless it was a daily occurrence.

A thin film of black grease on the wiper blades.

Dog shit stuffed under or behind the door latches.

Pull the Schrader valves from the tires.

[nobody's_hero]

Are you trying to get RPF in a hot water by admitting you are a violent person and ready to kill and burn? :confused:
Come on, man. You know we all went on a list as soon as we registered.

[timosman]

Come on, man. You know we all went on a list as soon as we registered.

Sure thing but why getting emotional about an unimportant shit?:cool:

[Anti Federalist]

I agree with a lot of this but what should Starbucks do? They're in a no-win situation. If they let non-customers hang out, it'll drive out paying customers. The real outrage is the fact that Starbucks doesn't really own their business.

Won't get an argument from me on that.

None of us own anything.

Every last one of us is nothing but a squatter on government property, paying our rents.

And yes, of course they are in a no-win situation.

It is a no win situation of their own creation, they have been pushing SJW nonsense for years now, and have now been "hoisted by their own petards".

Which I find delightfully amusing.

Hope it bankrupts the fuckers.

[pcosmar]

I really hate racism. "an ugly form of Collectivism" puts it mildly..

I don't care what angle you try to justify ,,,or obfuscate.. The concept of RACE is absurd,, and insulting to the Creator.

Humans have propagated by Families,, Individuals having offspring,, Marrying and reproducing for Several thousand years.

There are NO Races... There are People,, Human Beings that are related to you.. Family.

Stupid Darwin Bullshit is Stupid. There are no races..

[dannno]

Illegal?

I don't really think that way..

I certainly would not want or allow such in my community. and may be forced to take action if such stupidity could not be mediated..

I would burn the bastard out.. Perhaps shoot him dead in the street as an example,, if he interfered.

But then it would expose my area of intolerance.

Why not simply deprive them of the cash needed to pay rent and utilities?

Certainly your community would back you up, and he would end up being run out of town economically.

Seems a lot less messy.

[Madison320]

Everything I possibly could, before calling cops, even to the point of ignoring it, unless it was a daily occurrence.

A thin film of black grease on the wiper blades.

Dog $#@! stuffed under or behind the door latches.

Pull the Schrader valves from the tires.

You'd vandalize their car? What good would that do? They'd call the cops on you!

If you ignore them, that's the same as not having a "paying customer only" policy and you may go out of business.

What if they didn't have a car? I think you're really ducking the question.

Let me ask a slightly different question. How would you remove someone from your property where force is the only possible method?

[Madison320]

I really hate racism. "an ugly form of Collectivism" puts it mildly..

I don't care what angle you try to justify ,,,or obfuscate.. The concept of RACE is absurd,, and insulting to the Creator.

Humans have propagated by Families,, Individuals having offspring,, Marrying and reproducing for Several thousand years.

There are NO Races... There are People,, Human Beings that are related to you.. Family.

Stupid Darwin Bull$#@! is Stupid. There are no races..

Was that your answer to my question? I'll ask it again:

"If Starbucks in your neighborhood put up a "No Blacks" sign you'd take action against them? What kind of action?

Who would you shoot dead in the street? I'm not sure who you're referring to."

[Madison320]

Why not simply deprive them of the cash needed to pay rent and utilities?

Certainly your community would back you up, and he would end up being run out of town economically.

Seems a lot less messy.

Exactly. Boycotts are the free, libertarian solution to racism and discrimination. I always hate it when boycotts get lumped in with discrimination laws. Boycotts are voluntary, laws are not. They're total opposites.

[Anti Federalist]

You'd vandalize their car? What good would that do? They'd call the cops on you!

I think you're really ducking the question.

Let me ask a slightly different question. How would you remove someone from your property where force is the only possible method?

LOL...gotta catch me and prove it was me, first. ;)

I'm not ducking the question, I've said that calling cops should be a last resort.

If you want pin me down on that, or catch me in a contradiction (never call cops), fine.

In this case it's obvious to me that the situation could have been handled any number of ways before calling cops and costing me my job and the costing company millions of dollars in "Please Don't Hate Us, We're Not Racists, Really, Honest, Look At All We Do For People Of Color" extortion payments to the various IOS (Internet Outrage Squads) in order to make them go away.

[Anti Federalist]

Problem solved.

http://data.shopgate.com/shop_widget_images/20697/a8230af6b247847c529611d493679f8b.min.jpeg

https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/

[pcosmar]

So if Starbucks in your neighborhood put up a "No Blacks" sign you'd take action against them? What kind of action?

Who would you shoot dead in the street? I'm not sure who you're referring to.

I have lived around racism most of my life,, and taken some hits for that position..

Yeah,, I would without any guilt end an evil piece of shit put in my path,, though it is my experience that God Removes them..
I have had the experience of witnessing such.. and have a handful of dead enemies behind me. but not by my hand.

I lived 16 years in Key West.. a very tolerant community. and a very prosperous one..
It works.
I worked for a racist man,, for a while. Became good friends with his son. Tommy was also just out of the army then..
I did not know he had been decorated till his funeral,,silver star and purple heart.. He was just a good friend,,, and got me a job,,when I came back with an alias. I was one of the few light skinned faces at his funeral. My Big Brother was black..and I have known few equal men.
I started there as an illegal.. on an alias..
I left there having sold my home and bought a 20 acre Farm. Legal Cash out sale.

Tolerance Works. and racism is pure stupid that infects everything around it.
and Key West is a Historical Example... The richest city in the US at one point... and more Free Blacks in the Civil War than any northern city...
Hey,, I worked For Historic Tours of America..... I picked stuff up.

point is, Stupid racist crap is stupid.....everywhere it surfaces.
The only good from the 60s civil rights was ending Jim Crow laws.

they should have just left it at that,,, the forced integration only created blow back. :(

[Valli6]

:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FvwMsb9CRg
985643888999362560
https://www.informationliberation.com/?id=58274

Black Guy Walks Into Starbucks, Calls Them 'Racist,' Demands Free Coffee, Gets It Immediately
Chris Menahan
InformationLiberation
Apr. 17, 2018

A comedic genius on Twitter shared video of himself walking into a Starbucks and demanding they give him a free coffee as "reparations" for their "racism."

"I heard ya'll was racist, so I came to get my free coffee," Bryan Sharpe, who goes by "Hotep Jesus" on Twitter, says to a white girl behind the counter. "I heard ya'll don't like black people, so I came to get my Starbucks reparations voucher."

The white barista complied immediately.

more: https://www.informationliberation.com/?id=58274

I never heard of the ho-tep community before, but they are an interesting bunch. Did a small amount of checking - They are Federal Reserve-aware(!) and (I think?) anti-identity politics. Possible allies? I will watch some of their videos when I have more time.

What is Hotep? Uncle Hotep answers the most asked question on the internet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rFXyFYhzok

Hotep FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
http://hotepnation.com/hotep-faq-frequently-asked-questions/

[dannno]

:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FvwMsb9CRg

LOL, he gets a free large coffee then hands it to his 9 year old kid...

[dannno]

It just takes some practice not to be racist..


https://www.independent.com/news/2018/apr/17/awareness-and-practice-can-help-overcome-hidden-bi/




Awareness and Practice Can Help Overcome Hidden Biases
Westmont College Associate Professor Carmel Saad Lectures on the Issue


Tuesday, April 17, 2018
by PHI DO


“We’re all biased, but the consequences of our bias depends on the role we play in society,” said Westmont College associate professor Carmel Saad in a lecture at the University Club on Thursday. “What role do you play?”


Unconscious biases frequently wedge themselves into people’s behavior, Saad explained, affecting their work and relationships. But there are ways to override these hidden prejudices. Saad discussed the prevalence of implicit bias and how individuals are exposed to such ideas from early childhood. Even though data shows a rising trend in more Americans explicitly embracing egalitarian ideals, disparities among different racial groups still persist.


For example, research in the law enforcement sector found that probation officers explain delinquency in black youths differently from those in white youths, Saad said. If it’s a black youth, officers attribute the behavior to the individual’s core personality trait. If it’s a white youth, officers say their surrounding social environment influenced their behavior.


These results mean there is a strong association between African Americans and criminality, Saad said. “We all have these tendencies because we all grew up in a society that gave us messages that associate certain groups with certain traits,” she noted. “And so this is more about raising awareness about the messages that are already present in society.”


According to Saad, people’s brains have limited amounts of energy, so stereotypes are shortcuts the brain uses to focus before moving on. Individuals unintentionally absorb stereotypes before they develop values related to race and gender because the brain makes these associations for them.


The problem with unconscious biases is that people often don’t know what they are and how they can affect behavior outside of conscious control. Saad tackles these issues in her workshops by raising awareness about these hidden prejudices and offering strategies to overcome them.


So what can individuals do to address these biases? Saad outlined several strategies, including increasing opportunities for contact with diverse communities and viewing media that portrays minorities in non-stereotyped ways. Imagining what it’s like to live life prejudged as lazy or violent on the basis of race can also help individuals emotionally connect with people.


“We are all exposed to these ideas and they are oftentimes very different from what we desire,” Saad said. “They can be a bad habit … and just like any bad habit, awareness and practice can help us overcome it.”

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Somebody needs to hire attorney Jackie Chiles for some free coffee.




https://media.giphy.com/media/1JYBDMEg0hEwE/giphy.gif



https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/kramer-lawsuits.gif?w=650

[timosman]

It just takes some practice not to be racist..


https://www.independent.com/news/2018/apr/17/awareness-and-practice-can-help-overcome-hidden-bi/



Are we still allowed to have preferences when it comes to dating?:cool:

[dannno]

Are we still allowed to have preferences when it comes to dating?:cool:

My exgf had sex with a black dude after she broke up with me and was disappointed :cool:

[Raginfridus]

:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FvwMsb9CRg
985643888999362560
https://www.informationliberation.com/?id=58274


I never heard of the ho-tep community before, but they are an interesting bunch. Did a small amount of checking - They are Federal Reserve-aware(!) and (I think?) anti-identity politics. Possible allies? I will watch some of their videos when I have more time.

What is Hotep? Uncle Hotep answers the most asked question on the internet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rFXyFYhzok

Hotep FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
http://hotepnation.com/hotep-faq-frequently-asked-questions/

Bubba Hotep Speaks To You

[Madison320]

Are we still allowed to have preferences when it comes to dating?:cool:

Yes. Only evil big businesses should be subject to discrimination laws, not individuals. Big businesses are inherently bad and should be punished wherever possible.

[Madison320]

I have lived around racism most of my life,, and taken some hits for that position..

Yeah,, I would without any guilt end an evil piece of $#@! put in my path,, though it is my experience that God Removes them..
I have had the experience of witnessing such.. and have a handful of dead enemies behind me. but not by my hand.


So you'd kill someone for exercising their right to freedom of association? Don't you see the libertarian issue there?

[pcosmar]

So you'd kill someone for exercising their right to freedom of association? Don't you see the libertarian issue there?

Nope,, I'll take out the trash regardless .. Trash is Trash. and I would not be comfortable with such trash in my circle of influence.
something would have to go,, and I have no issue moving on,,, and I don't stay where I am not welcome.

[Madison320]

Nope,, I'll take out the trash regardless .. Trash is Trash. and I would not be comfortable with such trash in my circle of influence.
something would have to go,, and I have no issue moving on,,, and I don't stay where I am not welcome.

I gave you a +rep for being honest and answering the question.

[tod evans]

Unless you're willing to tell the Internet Outrage Squads to fuck off on a daily basis.

:D

[tod evans]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4o_wtP5sGk

[Working Poor]

I think Star Bucks coffee sucks.

[Swordsmyth]

Nope,, I'll take out the trash regardless .. Trash is Trash. and I would not be comfortable with such trash in my circle of influence.
something would have to go,, and I have no issue moving on,,, and I don't stay where I am not welcome.
Then you don't believe in liberty, liberty means people are free to do bad and stupid things that you don't like.

[Raginfridus]

Yes. Only evil big businesses should be subject to discrimination laws, not individuals. Big businesses are inherently bad and should be punished wherever possible.Because they're big and stuff.

[specsaregood]

Yes. Only evil big businesses should be subject to discrimination laws, not individuals. Big businesses are inherently bad and should be punished wherever possible.

Evidently No. Having a racial preference for dating is not ok any longer.
986628991959347201

at least for white people that is.

[navy-vet]

I think Star Bucks coffee sucks.
yes it does

[pcosmar]

Then you don't believe in liberty, liberty means people are free to do bad and stupid things that you don't like.

It also means responsibility..

I keep the peace where I am.. I am the law,, be it force of nature, or hand of God.
I tolerate much,, and mostly ignore the stupidity of others.
I will not tolerate abuse in my presence. and my history has examples.. I Know my Reflexes.
I will not tolerate a thief. And I will correct the stupidity of Racism..

It is a TOOL of Control..
It is used quite effectively in prisons to prevent any organizing among inmates.
There is no way for guards to maintain control without it..

and that is fact.

are you a tool of the guards?

[Swordsmyth]

It also means responsibility..

I keep the peace where I am.. I am the law,, be it force of nature, or hand of God.
I tolerate much,, and mostly ignore the stupidity of others.
I will not tolerate abuse in my presence. and my history has examples.. I Know my Reflexes.
I will not tolerate a thief. And I will correct the stupidity of Racism..

It is a TOOL of Control..
It is used quite effectively in prisons to prevent any organizing among inmates.
There is no way for guards to maintain control without it..

and that is fact.

are you a tool of the guards?
I oppose racism but controlling it is used as an excuse to take away liberty by the "guards", are you any different if you impose your will on others?

[pcosmar]

I oppose racism but controlling it is used as an excuse to take away liberty by the "guards", are you any different if you impose your will on others?

It is used,,..Racism is NOT LIBERTY.. Free To Hate.. is a piss poor use of Freedom.

Racism is Used.. It is used to divide people, and by dividing them,, Control people..

Pushing racism,, (as the media does) continues the use of racism. Accepting it promotes it.

STOP.. There is not such thing as race.. Stop thinking there is.. Stop using it as a tool.

Reject it out of hand...... and don't even attempt to justify it ever for any cause.

It is nothing but divisive. and that by deliberate and malicious intent.

[Swordsmyth]

It is used,,..Racism is NOT LIBERTY.. Free To Hate.. is a piss poor use of Freedom.

Racism is Used.. It is used to divide people, and by dividing them,, Control people..

Pushing racism,, (as the media does) continues the use of racism. Accepting it promotes it.

STOP.. There is not such thing as race.. Stop thinking there is.. Stop using it as a tool.

Reject it out of hand...... and don't even attempt to justify it ever for any cause.

It is nothing but divisive. and that by deliberate and malicious intent.
I oppose racism but people have a right to be wrong, racism should be opposed with ideas not with force, using force makes it look to others like you can't win the debate and it opens the door to more thought control or a racist backlash.

[pcosmar]

I oppose racism but people have a right to be wrong, racism should be opposed with ideas not with force, using force makes it look to others like you can't win the debate and it opens the door to more thought control or a racist backlash.

I understand that people can be wrong.

That is no reason to do business with them,, or speak to them or accept them as respectable.
I believe that type of stupidity should be ridiculed and denigrated,, till those anti social individuals go away.

Listening to them and allowing their poison to infect society will have debilitating effects for generations.
And that is where we are.

[Swordsmyth]

I understand that people can be wrong.

That is no reason to do business with them,, or speak to them or accept them as respectable.
I believe that type of stupidity should be ridiculed and denigrated,, till those anti social individuals go away.

Listening to them and allowing their poison to infect society will have debilitating effects for generations.
And that is where we are.
Shunning racists is fine, using violence on them is not.

[nobody's_hero]

I understand that people can be wrong.

That is no reason to do business with them,, or speak to them or accept them as respectable.
I believe that type of stupidity should be ridiculed and denigrated,, till those anti social individuals go away.

Listening to them and allowing their poison to infect society will have debilitating effects for generations.
And that is where we are.

Seems perfectly reasonable, however you seem to be misguided, because the obligation falls on those who cry foul to actually not do business with the offenders. (not sure how that works in this case since they weren't doing any business WITH Starbucks as much as they were doing business IN Starbucks)

People who hold racist views don't owe you anything. Maybe they are wrong, and maybe you should avoid them. But they aren't going tippy-toe over your feelings.

I have greater concern that our politically correct culture will devolve into the state that Europe is in, where overly-triggered people will clamor for legal punishments of those who speak what is on their minds. (we are much closer to that, IMO, than a re-institutionalization of racism)

Which is why these days, whenever someone throws up the race card, I just roll my eyes. Seems people these days are too focused on flaunting their victimhood than overcoming it.

[pcosmar]

Which is why these days, whenever someone throws up the race card, I just roll my eyes. Seems people these days are too focused on flaunting their victimhood than overcoming it.

Mostly so..except in discussion such as this.

Racism is Institutionalized in this country.. Deeply ingrained. and government sponsored.

There are a great many things done in cities that I certainly would do differently. and some cities worse than others.

I have a W on my prison #.... I was a Clerk there.. and I know the Prison Number system..
The STATE says I'm White.


I am not defined by the state. I simply have to deal with it while I'm here.

[pcosmar]

Shunning racists is fine, using violence on them is not.

Perhaps,,
My experience is that violence comes FROM there. but I have met it head on.

I would be fine with pulling the business license of such a business though.

[Swordsmyth]

Perhaps,,
My experience is that violence comes FROM there. but I have met it head on.
If they start it then the deserve to get it back.


I would be fine with pulling the business license of such a business though.
And how would you enforce that?
Send Kops to use violence and shut them down? Or would you use a lynch mob instead?
That way leads to tyranny.

[nobody's_hero]

Mostly so..except in discussion such as this.

Racism is Institutionalized in this country.. Deeply ingrained. and government sponsored.

There are a great many things done in cities that I certainly would do differently. and some cities worse than others.

I have a W on my prison #.... I was a Clerk there.. and I know the Prison Number system..
The STATE says I'm White.


I am not defined by the state. I simply have to deal with it while I'm here.

Well that's fine if that's how you see yourself. However you want to see yourself is totally up to you, but do not expect nor demand others to see you the same way. In reality people will define you by your appearance. No way around it. I.e. if I go rob a store, the radio will say something like, "white male, 5'10', overweight, receding hairline."

It seems "highly individualized individual not inclined to allowing himself to be defined by preconceptions placed upon him by others" is a bit too vague and more than a mouthful.

[Anti Federalist]

I would be fine with pulling the business license of such a business though.

I've been watching this exchange Pete, and I was understanding your point up to here.

"I would be in favor of pulling the business license of any business that sells guns and ammo" says the Bolshevik leftist.

Or any other daily outrage...the possibilities are endless...and the ability to control thoughts and actions endless as well, when you threaten with state force, the right to earn a living for having impolitic thoughts.

There shouldn't be such a thing as a "license" to do business in a free society.

[Swordsmyth]

I've been watching this exchange Pete, and I was understanding your point up to here.

"I would be in favor of pulling the business license of any business that sells guns and ammo" says the Bolshevik leftist.

Or any other daily outrage...the possibilities are endless...and the ability to control thoughts and actions endless as well, when you threaten with state force, the right to earn a living for having impolitic thoughts.

There shouldn't be such a thing as a "license" to do business in a free society.
You must spread some reputation around.......

[pcosmar]

There shouldn't be such a thing as a "license" to do business in a free society.

In a free society. Dude,, we can dream..

I a free society there would be no police to call,, even if there was reason for such.
In a free society there would be no locks on the damn bathroom.

any decent community would have public facilities,, as a matter of course.

In a Free society,,,,,, yeah well. We have what we have. and we deal with it.

Racism Sucks and invades nearly every aspect of life these days. My opposition is based in my Faith,, but I was trying not to take the thread there.

Darwinism is an ugly lie that has become religion and faith to most. The Concept of "Races" is repugnant..and trips my trigger..

The only other Race that has ever inhabited this planet other than Human,, is the nephalim.. They were/are not Human.

I watched the videos,,both of them.. The damn CEO came to the same damn conclusion... They have a problem with racism.

How they address it is yet to be seen.

[Anti Federalist]

In a free society. Dude,, we can dream..

I a free society there would be no police to call,, even if there was reason for such.
In a free society there would be no locks on the damn bathroom.

any decent community would have public facilities,, as a matter of course.

In a Free society,,,,,, yeah well. We have what we have. and we deal with it.

Racism Sucks and invades nearly every aspect of life these days. My opposition is based in my Faith,, but I was trying not to take the thread there.

Darwinism is an ugly lie that has become religion and faith to most. The Concept of "Races" is repugnant..and trips my trigger..

The only other Race that has ever inhabited this planet other than Human,, is the nephalim.. They were/are not Human.

I watched the videos,,both of them.. The damn CEO came to the same damn conclusion... They have a problem with racism.

How they address it is yet to be seen.

Yeah, not gonna go there either, already been down a different road with Mrs AF on that, not about to touch it with a ten foot pole.

I have an issue with the state putting you out of business for crimethink, that's all I'm pointing out.

[pcosmar]

Yeah, not gonna go there either, already been down a different road with Mrs AF on that, not about to touch it with a ten foot pole.

I have an issue with the state putting you out of business for crimethink, that's all I'm pointing out.

They already do..
I would prefer the community,, rather than the state..

I would prefer there to be much fewer laws altogether,,, and that things like abortion would not have to be "legal or illegal" but would simply be unacceptable..
The same for Public drunkenness.. or other lewd behavior.. No laws necessary.. just a sense of decency.

But that has to be local and not imposed by some central government. And it has to be a "We the People" thing.. that is wholly lacking.

[Anti Federalist]

Now that they have explained their side I can say I have had the exact same thing happen to me, while guilty of being a greasy biker.

I am white.

This is much less about racism, and much more about the knee jerk reaction indoctrinated into people to "call the cops" at the slightest of issues or problems.


Men arrested at Starbucks say they feared for their lives

https://apnews.com/45547c3ae5324b679e982c4847ee1378

PHILADELPHIA (AP) — Rashon Nelson initially brushed it off when the Starbucks manager told him he couldn’t use the restroom because he wasn’t a paying customer.

He thought nothing of it when he and his business partner, Donte Robinson, were approached at their table and were asked if they needed help. The 23-year-old entrepreneurs declined, explaining they were just waiting for a business meeting.

A few minutes later, they hardly noticed when the police walked into the coffee shop — until officers started walking in their direction.

“That’s when we knew she called the police on us,” Nelson told The Associated Press in the men’s first interview since video of their April 12 arrests went viral.

Nelson and Robinson, black men who became best friends in the fourth grade, were taken in handcuffs from the Starbucks in Philadelphia’s tony Rittenhouse Square neighborhood, where Robinson has been a customer since he was 15.

The video, recorded on a white customer’s cellphone video, galvanized people around the country who saw the exchange as modern-day racism. In the week since, the men have met with Starbucks’ CEO and have started pushing for lasting changes to ensure what happened to them doesn’t happen to anyone else.

“We were there for a real reason, a real deal that we were working on,” Robinson explained. “We put in a lot of time, energy, effort. ... We were at a moment that could have a positive impact on a whole ladder of people, lives, families. So I was like, ‘No, you’re not stopping that right now.’”

Robinson said he thought about his loved ones and how the afternoon had taken such a turn as he was taken to jail. Nelson wondered if he’d make it home alive.

“Anytime I’m encountered by cops, I can honestly say it’s a thought that runs through my mind,” Nelson said. “You never know what’s going to happen.”

Democratic Mayor Jim Kenney, who is white, said what happened at the Starbucks “appears to exemplify what racial discrimination looks like in 2018.” Police Commissioner Richard Ross, who’s black, said in a Facebook post that arresting officers “did absolutely nothing wrong,” and added that Nelson and Robinson were disrespectful to officers.

Ross said officers did what they were supposed to do and were professional in their dealings with the men, “and instead they got the opposite back.”

Nelson and Robinson originally were supposed to meet Andrew Yaffe, a white local businessman, at a Starbucks across town. But the plan changed, and they agreed to meet at the Rittenhouse Square location, where they’d met several times before on a potential real estate opportunity.

The black men arrived a few minutes early. Three police officers showed up not long after.

Nelson said they weren’t questioned but were told to leave immediately.

Yaffe showed up as the men were being handcuffed. He can be seen in the video demanding an explanation for the officers’ actions. Nelson and Robinson did not resist arrest, confused and unsure of what to think or what might happen next.

“When you know that you did nothing wrong, how do you really react to it?” Nelson said. “You can either be ignorant or you can show some type of sophistication and act like you have class. That was the choice we had.”

It was hardly their first encounter with police, a rite of passage that becomes a regular occurrence for many black men their age. But neither had been arrested before, setting them apart from many of their peers in the gritty southwest Philadelphia neighborhood where they grew up.

Robinson briefly wondered what he might’ve done to bring the moment on himself.

“I feel like I fell short,” he explained. “I’m trying to think of something I did wrong, to put not just me but my brother, my lifelong friend ... in this situation.”

Attorney Stewart Cohen, representing Nelson and Robinson, said the men were illegally profiled. He pointed to Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of race in hotels, restaurants, theaters and other public accommodations.

Seattle-based Starbucks Corp. has said the location where the arrests occurred has a policy that restrooms are for paying customers only.

Nelson and Robinson spent hours in a jail cell with no outside contact and no sense of what would happen next. They were released after midnight, when the district attorney declined to prosecute them for trespassing. They had no idea the video of their arrests was making the rounds on the internet.

The day after their arrests, they thought about what to do next.

“You go from being someone who’s just trying to be an entrepreneur, having your own dreams and aspirations, and then this happens,” Nelson said. “How do you handle it? Do you stand up? Do you fight? Do you sit down and just watch everyone else fight for you? Do you let it slide, like we let everything else slide with injustice?”

Robinson, still focused on the previous day’s business deal, called Yaffe to reschedule. Yaffe told him about the video and the traction it had gotten.

Over the weekend, attention and outrage over the video grew, prompting a protest at the local Starbucks restaurant and a national boycott. By Monday, the men were set to meet with Starbucks CEO Kevin Johnson to discuss what happened.

Johnson has responded quickly to public outcry around the arrests, calling them “reprehensible,” apologizing and ordering stores closed for mandatory training to tackle unconscious bias.

Nelson and Robinson said they’re looking for more lasting results and are in mediation proceedings with Starbucks to implement changes, including the posting in stores of a customer bill of rights; the adoption of new policies regarding customer ejections, racial profiling and racial discrimination; and independent investigations of complaints of profiling or discrimination from customers and employees.

Robinson said he appreciates the public support the men have received but anger and boycotting Starbucks are not the solution.

“We need a different type of action ... not words,” he said. “It’s a time to pay attention and understand what’s really going on. We do want a seat at the table.”

[Madison320]

I've been watching this exchange Pete, and I was understanding your point up to here.


You were understanding with the part where he says he'd kill the owner of a business who only allowed whites?

[pcosmar]

You were understanding with the part where he says he'd kill the owner of a business who only allowed whites?

And you can take your Stormfront ass down the road too.

Lying bastards love to twist what is not said into whatever they want.

[Madison320]

I have greater concern that our politically correct culture will devolve into the state that Europe is in, where overly-triggered people will clamor for legal punishments of those who speak what is on their minds. (we are much closer to that, IMO, than a re-institutionalization of racism)

Which is why these days, whenever someone throws up the race card, I just roll my eyes. Seems people these days are too focused on flaunting their victimhood than overcoming it.

The "race card" thing is not just annoying, it's a major violation of property rights and a major expense for businesses. Discriminations laws are one of my pet peeves. It's hard to feel sympathy for the problems of minorities when you have a gun pointed at your head. Believe it or not it reminds me of global warming. It's hard for me to listen to the global warming arguments when I know the "solution" is to steal from me.

[Madison320]

And you can take your Stormfront ass down the road too.

Lying bastards love to twist what is not said into whatever they want.

Are you calling me a liar?

[Madison320]

Now that they have explained their side I can say I have had the exact same thing happen to me, while guilty of being a greasy biker.

I am white.

This is much less about racism, and much more about the knee jerk reaction indoctrinated into people to "call the cops" at the slightest of issues or problems.


Men arrested at Starbucks say they feared for their lives

https://apnews.com/45547c3ae5324b679e982c4847ee1378

PHILADELPHIA (AP) — Rashon Nelson initially brushed it off when the Starbucks manager told him he couldn’t use the restroom because he wasn’t a paying customer.

He thought nothing of it when he and his business partner, Donte Robinson, were approached at their table and were asked if they needed help. The 23-year-old entrepreneurs declined, explaining they were just waiting for a business meeting.

A few minutes later, they hardly noticed when the police walked into the coffee shop — until officers started walking in their direction.

“That’s when we knew she called the police on us,” Nelson told The Associated Press in the men’s first interview since video of their April 12 arrests went viral.

Nelson and Robinson, black men who became best friends in the fourth grade, were taken in handcuffs from the Starbucks in Philadelphia’s tony Rittenhouse Square neighborhood, where Robinson has been a customer since he was 15.

The video, recorded on a white customer’s cellphone video, galvanized people around the country who saw the exchange as modern-day racism. In the week since, the men have met with Starbucks’ CEO and have started pushing for lasting changes to ensure what happened to them doesn’t happen to anyone else.

“We were there for a real reason, a real deal that we were working on,” Robinson explained. “We put in a lot of time, energy, effort. ... We were at a moment that could have a positive impact on a whole ladder of people, lives, families. So I was like, ‘No, you’re not stopping that right now.’”

Robinson said he thought about his loved ones and how the afternoon had taken such a turn as he was taken to jail. Nelson wondered if he’d make it home alive.

“Anytime I’m encountered by cops, I can honestly say it’s a thought that runs through my mind,” Nelson said. “You never know what’s going to happen.”

Democratic Mayor Jim Kenney, who is white, said what happened at the Starbucks “appears to exemplify what racial discrimination looks like in 2018.” Police Commissioner Richard Ross, who’s black, said in a Facebook post that arresting officers “did absolutely nothing wrong,” and added that Nelson and Robinson were disrespectful to officers.

Ross said officers did what they were supposed to do and were professional in their dealings with the men, “and instead they got the opposite back.”

Nelson and Robinson originally were supposed to meet Andrew Yaffe, a white local businessman, at a Starbucks across town. But the plan changed, and they agreed to meet at the Rittenhouse Square location, where they’d met several times before on a potential real estate opportunity.

The black men arrived a few minutes early. Three police officers showed up not long after.

Nelson said they weren’t questioned but were told to leave immediately.

Yaffe showed up as the men were being handcuffed. He can be seen in the video demanding an explanation for the officers’ actions. Nelson and Robinson did not resist arrest, confused and unsure of what to think or what might happen next.

“When you know that you did nothing wrong, how do you really react to it?” Nelson said. “You can either be ignorant or you can show some type of sophistication and act like you have class. That was the choice we had.”

It was hardly their first encounter with police, a rite of passage that becomes a regular occurrence for many black men their age. But neither had been arrested before, setting them apart from many of their peers in the gritty southwest Philadelphia neighborhood where they grew up.

Robinson briefly wondered what he might’ve done to bring the moment on himself.

“I feel like I fell short,” he explained. “I’m trying to think of something I did wrong, to put not just me but my brother, my lifelong friend ... in this situation.”

Attorney Stewart Cohen, representing Nelson and Robinson, said the men were illegally profiled. He pointed to Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of race in hotels, restaurants, theaters and other public accommodations.

Seattle-based Starbucks Corp. has said the location where the arrests occurred has a policy that restrooms are for paying customers only.

Nelson and Robinson spent hours in a jail cell with no outside contact and no sense of what would happen next. They were released after midnight, when the district attorney declined to prosecute them for trespassing. They had no idea the video of their arrests was making the rounds on the internet.

The day after their arrests, they thought about what to do next.

“You go from being someone who’s just trying to be an entrepreneur, having your own dreams and aspirations, and then this happens,” Nelson said. “How do you handle it? Do you stand up? Do you fight? Do you sit down and just watch everyone else fight for you? Do you let it slide, like we let everything else slide with injustice?”

Robinson, still focused on the previous day’s business deal, called Yaffe to reschedule. Yaffe told him about the video and the traction it had gotten.

Over the weekend, attention and outrage over the video grew, prompting a protest at the local Starbucks restaurant and a national boycott. By Monday, the men were set to meet with Starbucks CEO Kevin Johnson to discuss what happened.

Johnson has responded quickly to public outcry around the arrests, calling them “reprehensible,” apologizing and ordering stores closed for mandatory training to tackle unconscious bias.

Nelson and Robinson said they’re looking for more lasting results and are in mediation proceedings with Starbucks to implement changes, including the posting in stores of a customer bill of rights; the adoption of new policies regarding customer ejections, racial profiling and racial discrimination; and independent investigations of complaints of profiling or discrimination from customers and employees.

Robinson said he appreciates the public support the men have received but anger and boycotting Starbucks are not the solution.

“We need a different type of action ... not words,” he said. “It’s a time to pay attention and understand what’s really going on. We do want a seat at the table.”

Couldn't they've just ordered some coffee?

[shakey1]

Couldn't they've just ordered some coffee?

It could be they were waiting on the folks that were meeting them there.

[Madison320]

It could be they were waiting on the folks that were meeting them there.

So?

[shakey1]

So?

... before they ordered.

[Madison320]

... before they ordered.

Anyone could say that. If you are going to have a "paying customer policy" but then your employees have to decide if a non paying customer's excuse is valid, then you're introducing subjectiveness and even more lawsuits.

Besides I've been in that situation and I always order something while I'm waiting.

[specsaregood]

Men arrested at Starbucks say they feared for their lives

https://apnews.com/45547c3ae5324b679e982c4847ee1378




It could be they were waiting on the folks that were meeting them there.

This article conveniently drops a number of verbal exchanges that were in previous accounts of the story when it first come out.
Including:
The manager asking them to leave after they refused to become a customer.
The non-customers refusing to leave after being asked to.
The manager telling them that she was going to call the cops.
The non-customers telling the manager that they didn't care if she called the cops.

[Madison320]

Reading thru this thread is it any wonder why we can't compete in the global market? If a business owner can't even get his property rights protected here, at a supposedly libertarian site, why would anyone open a business in the US?

[Madison320]

This article conveniently drops a number of verbal exchanges that were in previous accounts of the story when it first come out.
Including:
The manager asking them to leave after they refused to become a customer.
The non-customers refusing to leave after being asked to.
The manager telling them that she was going to call the cops.
The non-customers telling the manager that they didn't care if she called the cops.

Yeah, the refusing to leave part is kind of important to the story. It completely changes the narrative.

[specsaregood]

Reading thru this thread is it any wonder why we can't compete in the global market? If a business owner can't even get his property rights protected here, at a supposedly libertarian site, why would anyone open a business in the US?

It is one reason, yet another from the google discrimination lawsuit:


A document brought to light by James Damore’s class-action lawsuit against Google and drafted by the company’s HR department instructing managers at the company on how to be “inclusive” cautioned managers against rewarding employees for traits “valued by the U.S. white/male dominant culture”, including individual achievement, and meritocracy.

[pcosmar]

Now that they have explained their side I can say I have had the exact same thing happen to me, while guilty of being a greasy biker.

I am white.



Perspective. ,, Been there both Homeless and working dirty...

The State says I am White. I reject their definition.

I am Man. and the state does not define me. I am not programmed, categorized or easily referenced.

I have been a Free Man since 1980,, a free man in a cage,, and a free man under supervision,, and unsupervised since 2005.

I saw this shit used as a tool of the prison..
I hate seeing this country become the prison I was freed from. And I am not a tool of the Guards.

[Madison320]

It is one reason, yet another from the google discrimination lawsuit:

Meanwhile the two men arrested at Starbucks have retained a second attorney:

Men Arrested at Starbucks Have Retained Cohen Placitella as Civil Counsel

Two black men who were arrested at a Starbucks coffee shop in Philadelphia as they waited to meet an acquaintance for a business meeting have retained counsel from a well-known mass-tort civil litigation firm as protesters Monday staged sit-ins.

https://www.law.com/thelegalintelligencer/2018/04/16/men-arrested-at-starbucks-have-retained-cohen-placitella-as-civil-counsel/?slreturn=20180319111251

[Anti Federalist]

Couldn't they've just ordered some coffee?

I'm sure they could have.

Manager - "Look guys, I know you are waiting on a client to discuss some business...But I'm gonna get in trouble with my bosses if I let people hang out without buying something. Can I get you a couple of coffees so I don't get in a bind?"

Two dudes - "Yeah sure, we understand. Two small regulars, thanks."

[Anti Federalist]

You were understanding with the part where he says he'd kill the owner of a business who only allowed whites?

No, or pulling their business licences.

I've know and interacted with Pete for ten years now, we've talked on the phone, discussed business, have had similar life experiences, I consider him a friend.

He's passionate about this issue, and we probably wouldn't see eye to eye on it.

That doesn't make him a communist, just like me being in favor of immigration control doesn't make me a Fascist.

We're too small in number to tear each other's throats out.

Our opposition, who are authoritarian communists, are more than happy to do that for us.

[Anti Federalist]

Meanwhile the two men arrested at Starbucks have retained a second attorney:

Men Arrested at Starbucks Have Retained Cohen Placitella as Civil Counsel

Two black men who were arrested at a Starbucks coffee shop in Philadelphia as they waited to meet an acquaintance for a business meeting have retained counsel from a well-known mass-tort civil litigation firm as protesters Monday staged sit-ins.

https://www.law.com/thelegalintelligencer/2018/04/16/men-arrested-at-starbucks-have-retained-cohen-placitella-as-civil-counsel/?slreturn=20180319111251

Is anybody surprised at this?

Payday, for all parties, especially the liarywers.

Losers?

The hapless broad who lost her job and now has a howling Bolshevik mob out for her blood, for following what is more than likely company policy.

The ever fucked taxpayers, once they get done milking Starbucks for a couple million, they'll sue the cops for a couple million more.

[RJB]

That's what gets me. I have been given the choice to buy something or leave. When I am given the choice, I take one. I avoid having the cops called on me. If I was slow and somehow missed that the cops were called, I would not have a 7 minute discussion with them-. I don't talk to cops--. I would just leave.

That said, it looks like it's financially smarter to tresspass, get arrested and file a lawsuit

[pcosmar]

Our opposition, who are authoritarian communists, are more than happy to do that for us.

My Friend,, it is our opposition that created the whole Race issue,,,, for the very purpose of division.
Divide and conquer... it's not just a catch phrase.

and people keep it going on both sides of whatever line is drawn...

I take my stand against it.

and I can find nothing about an overpriced trendy business with a piss poor business model to defend.

[Anti Federalist]

and I can find nothing about an overpriced trendy business with a piss poor business model to defend.

Even jerk ass SJW companies have the right to do business and control their property as they see fit.

[pcosmar]

That said, it looks like it's financially smarter to tresspass, get arrested and file a lawsuit

Because that is the system we have,,, (and it sucks)

I wish for and envision an entirely different environment.. but this is the reality that has been created.

This whole thing could have been and should have been a non issue..
and the fact that it still is an issue needs to be honestly addressed.

unfortunately that happens in Wholly Corrupted Courtrooms. :(

[Madison320]

I'm sure they could have.

Manager - "Look guys, I know you are waiting on a client to discuss some business...But I'm gonna get in trouble with my bosses if I let people hang out without buying something. Can I get you a couple of coffees so I don't get in a bind?"

Two dudes - "Yeah sure, we understand. Two small regulars, thanks."

I understand your point, that the manager could've possibly de-escalated the situation, but that'll only work some of the time. The truth is that Starbucks or any other big business is in a no-win situation due to discrimination laws. Discrimination laws are the root problem. From a libertarian standpoint, discrimination laws are about as bad as laws can get. They're anti property rights, anti freedom of association, and they criminalize thought. That's what we should be pissed off about in my opinion.