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Marenco
03-06-2018, 02:53 AM
L.A.'s Massive Homeless Problem

Homelessness affects the lives of all Angelenos, not just those forced to live on the streets. And it does so almost daily, in ways large and small.

Consider the pairs of thick gloves that George Abou-Daoud has stashed inside the nine restaurants he owns on the east side of Hollywood. When a homeless person accosts his customers, Abou-Daoud says, he can no longer count on the police for help; unless there’s an imminent threat to safety, he contends, they don’t respond quickly and can’t just haul the person away. So he’s had to take matters into his own hands, literally, by physically ejecting problematic homeless people himself. That’s why he has the gloves — to keep his hands clean.

Abou-Daoud’s gloves are a particularly bleak symbol of the relationship between the homeless and the non-homeless. But everyone’s got a story of one sort or another. Day in and day out, Metro riders step into trains with homeless people on them — often visibly disturbed or threatening, prompting nervous passengers to edge away or change cars. In downtown L.A., shop owners worry that customers will opt for suburban malls to avoid the panhandlers and glassy-eyed wanderers. In Venice, besieged businesses have banded together to share the cost of security guards and cleanup crews to clear garbage, bedding or worse from the sidewalks.

Across the city, drivers exiting freeways routinely encounter homeless people on the off-ramps shuffling from window to window requesting money. Libraries, train stations and public parks have become refuges for homeless people. In many residential neighborhoods and commercial districts, encampments have become a seemingly immutable fact of life.

As homelessness spreads across Los Angeles County — the official tally shows a 46% increase from 2013 to 2017 — it is drawing two conflicting responses, at times from the same people. There’s sympathy and a desire to help, but there’s also a sense of being invaded and perhaps even endangered — in terms of both physical safety and public health (see, for example, the state of emergency California declared last year over a hepatitis A outbreak that spread among the homeless, or the Skirball blaze that was sparked by a cooking fire in a homeless encampment). There’s an unavoidable, often unspoken, fear that the city around us may be in a state of irreversible decline, and a suspicion on the part of some that the rights of homeless people have trumped the rights of everyone else.

The increasing visibility of homelessness and destitution contributes to the uneasy feeling that the problem is closing in on everyone. It’s also a daily reminder that the values and systems to which we cling — liberty, democracy, free enterprise, the social contract that’s supposed to hold a community together, the safety net that is supposed to protect the most vulnerable — haven’t steered us out of this mess. Nor have our leaders.

It’s not surprising that some Angelenos are angry or even afraid. But we need to channel those concerns into constructive action.

The city and county must find a way to balance effectively the needs and rights of homeless people against the demands and expectations of everyone else. Respecting the rights of homeless people doesn’t mean consigning the sidewalks and parks permanently to tents and shopping carts, just as respecting the rights of property owners doesn’t mean rousting the unsheltered and shuffling them from one neighborhood to the next. Instead, what is needed are reasonable compromises that protect the health, safety and basic needs of homeless people while ensuring the community’s ability to function day in and day out. That, in turn, requires residents and businesses not just to accept the presence of homeless people, but to have a stake in getting them off the streets and into housing. (They should start by remembering that only a minority — though a visible one — of homeless people are mentally ill or drug addicted; many are simply down on their luck and pose no threat to others.)

Some compromises have already been laid out. What’s often been missing, though, is the political courage necessary to implement them. For example, the L.A. City Council adopted an ordinance two years ago that requires homeless people to abandon their carts and put most of their possessions in storage once the government has made a storage facility available nearby. The city, however, has been able to open only two such facilities, and only one — on skid row — has available storage space. Community opposition has killed or hamstrung projects in San Pedro and Venice.

Similarly, faced with mounting complaints about homeless people sleeping in their cars and campers, the council adopted an ordinance in late 2016 imposing a ban on people lodging in their vehicles overnight in residential areas. But the city has been far too slow to follow through on the safe parking areas it called for on property owned by churches, nonprofits and public agencies. That was at the heart of the compromise, and without it, the problem is merely shifted to commercial and industrial zones. Today, there is just one small safe parking lot in the city, at a church in South Los Angeles.


For more: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-homelessness-impact-on-others-20180301-htmlstory.html

Jan2017
03-06-2018, 10:54 AM
Build more parking lots and parking garage structures . . . (?)

with 9 billion h. sapiens on the planet by 2050-ish,
all those people will need a place to park their bedroom. Jus' sayin'

Brian4Liberty
03-06-2018, 11:37 AM
As homelessness spreads across Los Angeles County — the official tally shows a 46% increase from 2013 to 2017 — it is drawing two conflicting responses, at times from the same people. There’s sympathy and a desire to help, but there’s also a sense of being invaded and perhaps even endangered — in terms of both physical safety and public health

They ignore the fact that this is politically driven. The leftists have been conditioned to always accept and defend the "homeless" by the manipulators at the top who want to break down society into a bunch of obedient, ignorant, dependent sheep. Those same mundanes then have the "conflicting" reality that their cities are being destroyed. Many of them simply flee, to set up a new socialist paradise someplace else. They don't realize that the real problem is them.

pcosmar
03-06-2018, 12:27 PM
Over inflated property values.

Nothing the Big One won't fix.

dannno
03-06-2018, 12:38 PM
46% increase from 2013 to 2017

Holy fuck.

Zippyjuan
03-06-2018, 01:09 PM
What should be done about the problem? Is there a "free market" solution?

PierzStyx
03-06-2018, 01:28 PM
What should be done about the problem? Is there a "free market" solution?

Absolutely. The free market. Housing regulations are the cause of much of the problem.

http://www.csus.edu/indiv/c/chalmersk/econ251fa12/housingregulationscausehomelessness.pdf

dannno
03-06-2018, 01:30 PM
What should be done about the problem? Is there a "free market" solution?

The free market is the solution, the free market has done more to lift humanity out of poverty than anything - despite government interference.

Zippyjuan
03-06-2018, 01:34 PM
The free market is the solution, the free market has done more to lift humanity out of poverty than anything - despite government interference.

"If you ignore them, maybe they will just go away!"

dannno
03-06-2018, 01:35 PM
"If you ignore them, maybe they will just go away!"

If you abolish the government, they will get a job.

Zippyjuan
03-06-2018, 01:44 PM
If you abolish the government, they will get a job.

I see. They are thinking, "gee, if only there wasn't a government. Then I would get off my butt and go get a job. Until then I would rather live in this box on the streets...."

If you don't have an address or telephone number to be reached at, finding a job can be difficult. Even if you want one. (some on the streets are there because the can't find a job, some are there because of mental/ drug/ alcohol issues, some were trying to get away from abusive situations- parents, spouses).

dannno
03-06-2018, 01:49 PM
"I see. They are thinking, "gee, if only there wasn't a government. Then I would get off my butt and go get a job. Until then I would rather live in this box on the streets...."" [and collect welfare]

Exactly.

specsaregood
03-06-2018, 02:10 PM
Exactly.

lol, many would not or could not

Voluntarist
03-06-2018, 02:23 PM
xxxxx

Anti Federalist
03-06-2018, 02:30 PM
Seriously Zip?

DamianTV
03-06-2018, 03:32 PM
I see. They are thinking, "gee, if only there wasn't a government. Then I would get off my butt and go get a job. Until then I would rather live in this box on the streets...."

If you don't have an address or telephone number to be reached at, finding a job can be difficult. Even if you want one. (some on the streets are there because the can't find a job, some are there because of mental/ drug/ alcohol issues, some were trying to get away from abusive situations- parents, spouses).

Social Support Structures should come from a voluntary society, not government. It does not happen if the society is no longer benevolent.

dannno
03-06-2018, 03:37 PM
lol, many would not or could not

Currently no, because government regulations do not allow people to pay them less than minimum wage and they have to have certain working conditions.

Once all that is gone, and they are hungry, they will do some work. Doesn't mean they will get a 9-5, but they will do something.

Those who truly can't, well, everybody else will have a huge bonus from not paying income taxes and we can help them out.

It won't be perfect, but it will be far better than what we have now.

pcosmar
03-06-2018, 03:57 PM
What should be done about the problem? Is there a "free market" solution?

Is there a free market?

I think that if there was this would not be a question.

pcosmar
03-06-2018, 04:01 PM
I see. They are thinking, "gee, if only there wasn't a government. Then I would get off my butt and go get a job. Until then I would rather live in this box on the streets...."


Just can't earn enough negative rep can you,,

Can't help.

Could this be proof that AI has no soul?

DamianTV
03-06-2018, 04:39 PM
Just can't earn enough negative rep can you,,

Can't help.

Could this be proof that AI has no soul?

Its / their / his Soul was confiscated due to delinquent payments on an outstanding loan for which the Soul was offered as collateral. Probably Student Debt.

---

Back on point.

Maybe the real problem here is that the jobs do not exist? Maybe the qualifications for the existing jobs are too high? Maybe the wages are too low? Maybe those middle class jobs have gone overseas where they can be low paying jobs? Maybe Student Debt caused them to go into bankruptcy? Maybe what caused all three was a Fiat Currency that bled out the value which screwed both the employers and employees? Maybe taxes were too high, and used to fund Welfare programs that removed incentives to work and pay honest wages? Maybe the real problem is those who profit by stealing the value of currency? Maybe these people have been denied any path to a positive self identity? Maybe the homeless are the victims and we react by telling them to blame themselves and putting them on addictive mentally destabilizing drugs? Maybe Illegal Immigration brought in more people than there were jobs for? Maybe they dont have what it takes to be a Obedient Corporate Slave that can not pump out numbers that their bosses expect? Maybe the lack of a Free Market allowed big companies to get government subsidies at the expense of creating more homeless people? Maybe they could not afford Medical Care and had no insurance and were crushed by Medical Debt and had their wages confiscated? Maybe these people have been convicted of felony drug crimes and are forbidden from getting a job due to their Criminal Records? Maybe all these businesses that cant hire more people are all somehow magically mismanaged? Maybe we should work on a Vaccine for Homelessness? Maybe we should be looking for ways to help people provide for themselves instead of having 5% of the worlds population and 25% of the worlds Prison Population? Maybe we have too damn many Laws? Maybe Law Enforcement is too efficient at creating criminals with a 90% recidivism rate (repeated incarceration)? Maybe the unemployed are victims of Race Discrimination and are not being hired because they are white men? Maybe some people are truly incapable of working? Maybe there are homeless children and elderly too, as well as handicapped, mentally challenged, disabled, drug addicts, victims of Public Education, or are unable to work for a large number of legitimate reasons? Maybe the obligations that society has to the individual has not been met? Maybe we arent Voting hard enough? Maybe Zippy has absolutely no moral qualm with stealing from those who literally have absolutely nothing left? Maybe all these things contribute to the overall problem?

Raginfridus
03-06-2018, 04:56 PM
I see. They are thinking, "gee, if only there wasn't a government. Then I would get off my butt and go get a job. Until then I would rather live in this box on the streets...."

If you don't have an address or telephone number to be reached at, finding a job can be difficult. Even if you want one. (some on the streets are there because the can't find a job, some are there because of mental/ drug/ alcohol issues, some were trying to get away from abusive situations- parents, spouses).

Actually, yes. The majority of homeless are bums by choice. Very few want to turn their lives around. Even the fraction that want to, tell others and themselves they want to, can lapse if they are not wholly committed to leaving the life that put them on the street. That commitment is only apprehended by a daily personal battle for every scrap of self-respect there is to grab. "Help" is what some shelters offer, but there is no helping the vast majority who remain bums by choice. You have no idea what you're talking about.

And yes, jobs exist - even for felons.

PierzStyx
03-06-2018, 04:59 PM
The free market is the solution, the free market has done more to lift humanity out of poverty than anything - despite government interference.

Too bad you don't believe in the free market.

DamianTV
03-06-2018, 05:01 PM
George Carlin - The War on Homelessness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lncLOEqc9Rw

We have no War on Homelessness because there is no profit in it.

Krugminator2
03-06-2018, 05:04 PM
I see. They are thinking, "gee, if only there wasn't a government. Then I would get off my butt and go get a job. Until then I would rather live in this box on the streets...."

If you don't have an address or telephone number to be reached at, finding a job can be difficult. Even if you want one. (some on the streets are there because the can't find a job, some are there because of mental/ drug/ alcohol issues, some were trying to get away from abusive situations- parents, spouses).

I don't know what the profile is of someone living on the streets. But anyone wants to not live on the streets has that option. Between section 8 housing, food stamps and welfare, a person living off of the government makes what an upper middle class person does in Mexico.

In the context of human history, there is no one who is bad off in the 2018 United States. All of those people who are homeless in California could find lower cost housing just about anyplace else. Helping those people is only encouraging bad behavior. Just as the person in Ron Paul's debate said, Let em die. (They of course won't die. They will magically find a place if they have to.)

Krugminator2
03-06-2018, 05:08 PM
We have no War on Homelessness because there is no profit in it.

That is a pretty stupid statement. I guess he has never heard of the War on Poverty. The country spends a fortune on government programs.

The idea that the US doesn't spend a lot on social programs is just false.
http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/Sumner/Screen%20Shot%202017-12-29%20at%2012.04.58%20PM.png

DamianTV
03-06-2018, 05:10 PM
That is a pretty stupid statement. I guess he has never heard of the War on Poverty. The country spends a fortune on government programs.

The idea that the US doesn't spend a lot on social programs is just false.
http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/Sumner/Screen%20Shot%202017-12-29%20at%2012.04.58%20PM.png

Good grief dude, it was supposed to be a humorous anecdote, not a meaningful contribution. Just something to keep people talking. Did you watch the video?

Krugminator2
03-06-2018, 05:15 PM
Good grief dude, it was supposed to be a humorous anecdote, not a meaningful contribution. Just something to keep people talking. Did you watch the video?

No. I have seen his stuff. He is an unfunny idiot. He spends all his time railing against business.

pcosmar
03-06-2018, 05:16 PM
And yes, jobs exist - even for felons.

Some and rarely.

and I remember I had divine intervention on my account. for a time.

You see NICS is more than guns..

I am too dangerous to INSURE. and insurance is mandatory in most places..

Background Check=Blackball

dannno
03-06-2018, 05:19 PM
Too bad you don't believe in the free market.

I believe in it more than you do. You probably think because you believe in open borders with a welfare state you are super free market or something..

Well guess what? Somebody who ACTUALLY wants a free market more than you and thinks a little bit more carefully than you is going to prefer protecting our borders so that we can preserve what vestiges of freedom we have left, and hope that we can work towards a free market some day.

Opening our borders and completely sabotaging our country by sucking in a bunch of commies with our welfare program is free market suicide. That's what you support. Free market suicide.

Raginfridus
03-06-2018, 05:31 PM
Some and rarely.

and I remember I had divine intervention on my account. for a time.

You see NICS is more than guns..

I am too dangerous to INSURE. and insurance is mandatory in most places..

Background Check=BlackballYou might have to work for 12-16 bucks an hour, but its not impossible. Plenty of contractors will pay cash, no application bullshit. Flooring sucks, but its better than roofing. Painters don't give a shit. There's maintenance jobs for hotels and apartments, which LA, I'm sure, has no shortage of. If they can read a tape, they can get a job. Their problem lies in applying to box stores and even fast food, which will not take felons.

I get it though, any company that bothers with background checks won't take you. 99% of the time.

pcosmar
03-06-2018, 06:02 PM
You might have to work for 12-16 bucks an hour, but its not impossible. Plenty of contractors will pay cash, no application bull$#@!. Flooring sucks, but its better than roofing. Painters don't give a $#@!. There's maintenance jobs for hotels and apartments, which LA, I'm sure, has no shortage of. If they can read a tape, they can get a job. Their problem lies in applying to box stores and even fast food, which will not take felons.

I get it though, any company that bothers with background checks won't take you. 99% of the time.

My last engagement averaged out at $5.00 an hour,, (Verbal agreement, $10.x20hrs=200 weekly casual,,cash) and I put in well over 40 as I lived in the shop for a while.
but those are short lived engagements.

How many Felons do you think there are in this country? (I honestly don't have a number,,past lots)

pcosmar
03-06-2018, 06:07 PM
BTW,, I was homeless in L.A. about 30 years ago.. and some may have changed..

It was a good place to get out of.

Swordsmyth
03-06-2018, 06:09 PM
My last engagement averaged out at $5.00 an hour,, (Verbal agreement, $10.x20hrs=200 weekly casual,,cash) and I put in well over 40 as I lived in the shop for a while.
but those are short lived engagements.

How many Felons do you think there are in this country? (I honestly don't have a number,,past lots)

Those "felons" like yourself would gladly do those jobs "Americans won't do", illegal immigration probably hurts you more than the rest of us, the illegals may even be actual violent unreformed felons but they don't give their right names and nobody asks.

pcosmar
03-06-2018, 06:54 PM
Those "felons" like yourself would gladly do those jobs "Americans won't do", illegal immigration probably hurts you more than the rest of us, the illegals may even be actual violent unreformed felons but they don't give their right names and nobody asks.

it ain't immigration..

I watched as a Cuban man got sent back several times..
And each try was more impressive than than last..

Give that man a JOB.

https://cbsnews3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2004/02/04/cdac29d9-a642-11e2-a3f0-029118418759/thumbnail/620x350/87f83d25ae480648887cbf466f7eb9ab/image598020x.jpg

There are few immigrants that could do "my job",, and they should be welcomed,, and their distinctiveness added.

Raginfridus
03-06-2018, 07:40 PM
My last engagement averaged out at $5.00 an hour,, (Verbal agreement, $10.x20hrs=200 weekly casual,,cash) and I put in well over 40 as I lived in the shop for a while.
but those are short lived engagements.

How many Felons do you think there are in this country? (I honestly don't have a number,,past lots)

$5 in the 90s?

Yeah, lots. I don't have the numbers, but homeless felons definitely outnumber illegals.

VIDEODROME
03-06-2018, 08:14 PM
Bum Fights

pcosmar
03-06-2018, 08:56 PM
$5 in the 90s?


no, about a year ago.

pcosmar
03-06-2018, 08:58 PM
As far as homeless,, aside from jobs,,

Background checks affect rentals too.

eleganz
03-07-2018, 01:34 AM
I see the Downtown LA homeless epidemic fairly consistently and its extremely depressing. You'll be driving in a decent area and all of a sudden its a homeless wild west, its like no rules exist where they are.

PierzStyx
03-07-2018, 01:19 PM
I believe in it more than you do. You probably think because you believe in open borders with a welfare state you are super free market or something..

Well guess what? Somebody who ACTUALLY wants a free market more than you and thinks a little bit more carefully than you is going to prefer protecting our borders so that we can preserve what vestiges of freedom we have left, and hope that we can work towards a free market some day.

Opening our borders and completely sabotaging our country by sucking in a bunch of commies with our welfare program is free market suicide. That's what you support. Free market suicide.

Yeah, you believe in a free market so much you voted for an anti-free market protectionist who vowed from the beginning to massively interfere in the economy and calls for crippling tariffs that will wreck the American economy. How "free market" of you.

Oh, and you're so free market that you are threatened by the free exchange of capital, both human and goods and services, across state lines that you want to erect a massive police state to hunt down and imprison millions of people for acting on a freer market than you would like. How dare people engage in free exchanges of wealth and location without your express permission. How "free market" of you to assault, cage, and kill people and seize their property for engaging in economic exchanges you do not approve of. How "libertarian" of you. I mean, it makes absolute sense that erecting a massive police state with the power to seize the property of and imprison millions of people while building a militarized wall along the nation's border will make us more free. After all, we all know that living in a national prison makes us "free."

No, you do not believe in free markets because the exact moment the market does something you don't like you have Big Daddy Police State stomp and regulate the market as heavily as possible.

You are just another useless Progressive who hates free markets, free will, and free men. This is obvious when you label the free market "suicide." You're just anothe rbig government stooge.

And what is more, you're an ignorant fool. If you really hated the welfare state then you would be all for open borders. The evidence overwhelmingly suggests that as immigration rises the support for welfare states drastically decreases among the native population.


Conservative and libertarian critics of immigration like to cite Milton Friedman’s observation that “[y]ou cannot simultaneously have free immigration and a welfare state,” which co-blogger Ken Anderson recently endorsed. The fear is that, given relatively open borders, immigrants from poor countries will flock to wealthy ones and undermine their economies by consuming huge amounts of welfare benefits.

The greater ethnic diversity of the US is one of the main reasons why we have a smaller welfare state than most European nations.

I am a great admirer of Friedman and his scholarship. But he was not an expert on immigration, and, as far as I can tell, he never systematically studied the evidence on the impact of immigration on political support for the welfare state. That evidence overwhelmingly shows that ethnic heterogeneity greatly reduces support for welfare state spending because voters are less willing to support welfare programs if they believe that a large percentage of the money is going to members of a different racial or ethnic group.

...Because people are most likely to support welfare programs when the money goes to recipients who are “like us,” immigration actually undermines the welfare state rather than reinforces it. Even if the new immigrants themselves vote for expanded welfare state benefits (which is far from always a given), their political impact is likely to be offset by that of native-born citizens who are generally wealthier, more numerous, and more likely to vote and otherwise participate in politics.

This feedback effect creates a difficult dilemma for liberals and leftists who support immigration but also want to expand the welfare state. Paul Krugman calls the welfare-immigration tradeoff an “agonizing issue” for liberal Democrats. But for libertarians and other supporters of economic liberty, immigration is a win-win game. It is both an important exercise of economic freedom in its own right, and has the secondary effect of constraining the welfare state.

...Moreover, it is no more bigoted to oppose welfare state benefits because they go to members of other ethnic groups than to support them because they go to members of your group. For example, Kinder and Kam find that strongly “ethnocentric” white voters are more likely to support Social Security benefits than other whites, because they see it as a program that primarily benefits non-Hispanic whites like themselves. In relatively homogeneous states, voters tend to support higher levels of welfare benefits than they would otherwise because they see them as supporting members of their own ethnic or racial group. In more diverse societies, the public supports relatively lower benefits because of a perception that too much of the money goes to racial or ethnic “others.” The former attitude is no less biased than the latter.

https://fee.org/articles/if-you-hate-the-welfare-state-you-should-love-immigration/

The reality is that economic freedom and free markets don't just decrease the perceived need for welfare programs as the free exchange of capital -both human, goods, and services- goes from where there is too much of it to where it is in high demand, thus benefiting all those involved, but free markets also lower the desire in native populations to engage in expansive welfare programs that might benefit those who appear different from the majority. The free exchange of human capital -so called "open borders"- therefore actual kills the welfare state and makes people more free and prosperous.

dannno
03-07-2018, 01:40 PM
The free exchange of human capital -so called "open borders"- therefore actual kills the welfare state and makes people more free and prosperous.

LOL, you saved the funniest part for last.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPfvEtPW0AARe1d.jpg

Do you want smaller government, or bigger government?

I always vote smaller.

Your words say, "smaller" but your actions say "bigger".

pcosmar
03-07-2018, 01:44 PM
its like no rules exist where they are.

What rules should exist?

I mean,,should they be herded someplace.. contained someplace.??

bunklocoempire
03-07-2018, 01:48 PM
Social Support Structures should come from a voluntary society, not government. It does not happen if the society is no longer benevolent.

Yes.
The best help comes with voluntary accountable relationships. Unaccountable "relationships" or half-assed relationships, make things worse.

DamianTV
03-07-2018, 04:35 PM
Yes.
The best help comes with voluntary accountable relationships. Unaccountable "relationships" or half-assed relationships, make things worse.

Exactly.

The govt solution to any problem is typically worse than the problem itself.

Going just a step further, most of the natural social support structures come from families. Families that have been disrupted and destroyed, split up by work schedules and "not living in the basement with your parents". Families used to live in homes that were multi generational. Thus, kids would learn the trade skills of their parents and learn the mistakes their parents made from their grandparents. Today, those families are split up, children go to Public Education for compulsory indoctrination every day where govt becomes the surrogate parent, and while at school, the grandparents are not allowed to receive any assistance from any other family members, to the point where grandparents are shipped off to retirement communities or nursing homes while the working age adults actively engage in the Business of the World with no one to "bother" them. In the mean time, the children are taught imperfectly the same exact thing their parents do in a perfect manner. People are set up to fail to become dependent on govt to be the glue that holds them back in almost every aspect of life by teaching them that parents have no solutions, only governments, only rules, only force, only the small group of dominant men holding all the cards to the solution when their employers finally perform some form of wrong doing, allowing only mega corporations to operate at the expense of the destruction of the American Family Business. The only ones that have any chance of success are those that willingly accept the mind programming of the Fascist State and become the obedient worker, or what ever other assigned role that has been bestowed upon them by the Corporations that rule the Law, and the Ministry of Violence that act only on the behalf of those Corporations.

Back to square one. Would Homelessness be a problem if the Multi Generational Family in a home had not been split up?

Zippyjuan
03-07-2018, 04:47 PM
Exactly.



Back to square one. Would Homelessness be a problem if the Multi Generational Family in a home had not been split up?

Yes. It is not a new phenomenon. http://www.dceh.org/the-history-of-homelessness-in-america-1640s-to-present/


In the 1640s homelessness was seen as a moral deficiency, a character flaw. It was generally believed a good Christian, under God’s grace, would naturally have their needs met. People outside of that grace somehow were deserving of their plight as God rendered justice accordingly and fairly. If one found themselves homeless in the 1600s, a person or family would come upon a town and would have to prove their ‘worth’ to the community’s fathers,. If not, they would be on the not so merry way to the next town or hamlet.


The Industrial Revolution starting in the 1820s-‘30s people began migrating from the farm to the city in search of jobs. Philadelphia and New York had many people walking the streets causing the country’s first pan-handling ordinances. City jails became de facto shelter systems.

Poor safety regulation caused a lot of physical disability and death. Those disabled and widows, many with dependent children had no means to provide for themselves and nowhere to turn. The 1850s brought the first documented cases of homeless youth, many of whom were kicked out of their homes because their providers could no longer afford to raise them.

The Civil War was the first war where the newly discovered painkiller morphine was used. Now people with amputated limbs could survive. Opiate addiction became rampant with 100s of thousands of war veterans addicted. From the 1870s until the 1890s one could purchase morphine and heroin with syringes from Sears and Roebucks catalogues. Many rural housewives also became addicted in response to the monotony of life in the middle of nowhere. Criminalization of drug addiction soon followed in response to the epidemic. And of course the Civil War brought with it cases of what is now known as PTSD (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder). The terms “tramp” “hobo” and “bum” were born out of this era.

Natural Disasters are another factor in the homelessness problem. The Great Chicago Fire, The San Francisco earthquake, the massive flooding of the Mississippi in the 1920s from Ohio through New Orleans displaced over 1.3 million people. The Drought of the 30s in Oklahoma and Texas, Hurricane Katrina, are just a few examples of disasters that affected millions of people’s households.

DamianTV
03-07-2018, 04:51 PM
Yes. It is not a new phenomenon. http://www.dceh.org/the-history-of-homelessness-in-america-1640s-to-present/

Oh yeah, its been going on since at least 1913 so it must be just fine.

Zippyjuan
03-07-2018, 04:56 PM
Oh yeah, its been going on since at least 1913 so it must be just fine.

Since at least 1640 in the US. Nothing has been able to solve it.

Swordsmyth
03-07-2018, 04:59 PM
Since at least 1640 in the US. Nothing has been able to solve it.

The poor ye have always with you, but in what numbers?

There are ways to reduce the problem but government tends to make it worse.

Zippyjuan
03-07-2018, 05:00 PM
The poor ye have always with you, but in what numbers?

There are ways to reduce the problem but government tends to make it worse.

How would you reduce the numbers?

DamianTV
03-08-2018, 04:24 PM
How would you reduce the numbers?

First, I'd take a look at this:

https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/wealth_inequality_mar7.png

Got that from this article:

"A Hard Left Turn Looms" - Wealth Inequality In The United States
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-08/hard-left-turn-looms-wealth-inequality-united-states-0

I'd think about why we had less Income Inequality in the past than our current trend. The lower numbers were a result of Economic Freedoms, not the other way around where Economic Freedom caused Inequality.

Zippyjuan
03-08-2018, 06:37 PM
First, I'd take a look at this:

https://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/inline-images/wealth_inequality_mar7.png

Got that from this article:

"A Hard Left Turn Looms" - Wealth Inequality In The United States
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-08/hard-left-turn-looms-wealth-inequality-united-states-0

I'd think about why we had less Income Inequality in the past than our current trend. The lower numbers were a result of Economic Freedoms, not the other way around where Economic Freedom caused Inequality.

How would you address that- taxing the rich to give to the poor/ homeless? Raise the minimum wage?

Swordsmyth
03-08-2018, 06:46 PM
How would you address that- taxing the rich to give to the poor/ homeless? Raise the minimum wage?

The elite use government to keep the rest of us from competing with them and to steal from us, the answers are 1 cut government at home and 2 fight back in the trade war to reverse what the elite have done to us with their trade policies.

Many people tend to forget that our trade policies have been controlled by the same elite that causes all our other problems.

Zippyjuan
03-08-2018, 06:54 PM
The elite use government to keep the rest of us from competing with them and to steal from us, the answers are 1 cut government at home and 2 fight back in the trade war to reverse what the elite have done to us with their trade policies.

Many people tend to forget that our trade policies have been controlled by the same elite that causes all our other problems.

Trade wars don't solve anything- let alone homelessness or wealth disparity.

Swordsmyth
03-08-2018, 06:57 PM
Trade wars don't solve anything- let alone homelessness or wealth disparity.

Don't you wish the other countries hadn't started one?

The only way to end it is to fight back.

eleganz
03-17-2018, 03:47 PM
What rules should exist?

I mean,,should they be herded someplace.. contained someplace.??

Rules that people agree on, exist.

I don't know what the solution is, perhaps a non-profit outside of the city. But if you're insinuating that by saying rules, I mean captivity, you're nuts.

pcosmar
03-17-2018, 07:54 PM
Rules that people agree on, exist.

I don't know what the solution is, perhaps a non-profit outside of the city. But if you're insinuating that by saying rules, I mean captivity, you're nuts.

By "Rules" I mean laws. which there are an over abundance already.

Human beings have a right to life. A right to be alive.. A right to be.

Just because it hurts the conscience of those who see the poor,, does not make it a crime to be poor,, nor is it a requirement to have an address or home.

euphemia
03-17-2018, 07:58 PM
It just goes to show you rich liberals do not want to spend their own money to solve problems. There are wealthy people all around the LA basin. Do you see any of them offering a bed or a job to someone off the street?

nobody's_hero
03-18-2018, 06:14 AM
Has anyone bothered to ask homeless people whether they even want help? For some I'm sure it becomes a lifestyle of freedom. No mortgage to worry about, no electric bill, no building codes, no property taxes, no lawn upkeep.

Throw someone like that in a 'free' home where suddenly they have obligations to meet, and while you might feel good about yourself, they've now been shouldered with a burden that they neither were prepared to take on, or even wanted.

Raginfridus
03-18-2018, 06:59 AM
It just goes to show you rich liberals do not want to spend their own money to solve problems. There are wealthy people all around the LA basin. Do you see any of them offering a bed or a job to someone off the street?


https://youtu.be/nT2fMnstxwU

Raginfridus
03-18-2018, 07:06 AM
Yes. It is not a new phenomenon. http://www.dceh.org/the-history-of-homelessness-in-america-1640s-to-present/


Poor safety regulation caused a lot of physical disability and death. ...

euphemia
03-18-2018, 10:27 AM
Has anyone bothered to ask homeless people whether they even want help? For some I'm sure it becomes a lifestyle of freedom. No mortgage to worry about, no electric bill, no building codes, no property taxes, no lawn upkeep.

Throw someone like that in a 'free' home where suddenly they have obligations to meet, and while you might feel good about yourself, they've now been shouldered with a burden that they neither were prepared to take on, or even wanted.

This is a point that made us take a step back from homelessness here. A lot of the homeless have become local characters, which says they really want to live that kind of life. If they make a choice to nomadic, then they don’t really need my money or my awareness raised. I am really more concerned about families who became homeless through some catastrophe. You want to talk about dividing families? In our town the only places that serve homeless families will only take boys up to age 12, then they have tale their chances at the men’s shelter on the other end of town. This is why I feel like we have to find a way for poor people to own property.

Zippyjuan
03-18-2018, 11:40 AM
Has anyone bothered to ask homeless people whether they even want help? For some I'm sure it becomes a lifestyle of freedom. No mortgage to worry about, no electric bill, no building codes, no property taxes, no lawn upkeep.

Throw someone like that in a 'free' home where suddenly they have obligations to meet, and while you might feel good about yourself, they've now been shouldered with a burden that they neither were prepared to take on, or even wanted.

A lot end up there not by choosing to be homeless but because of other things- like being unable to keep a job due to alcohol or drug addictions or mental conditions. It becomes the only life they know- just find a way to get through the next day however you can.

DamianTV
03-18-2018, 05:31 PM
A lot end up there not by choosing to be homeless but because of other things- like being unable to keep a job due to alcohol or drug addictions or mental conditions. It becomes the only life they know- just find a way to get through the next day however you can.

Or maybe not drugs, but their employer went out of business?

Zippyjuan
03-18-2018, 05:37 PM
Or maybe not drugs, but their employer went out of business?

That happens as well.