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Zippyjuan
03-02-2018, 06:45 PM
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/03/trump-pal-sold-steel-related-stock-days-before-tariff-news.html


Carl Icahn, a billionaire financier and longtime pal of Donald Trump’s, sold more than $30 million of stock in a steel-dependent company days before new tariffs on steel imports were announced, Think Progress reports.

Icahn’s dumping of close to 1 million shares of Manitowoc Company Inc. was revealed in an SEC filing submitted on February 22, seven days before Trump said he would impose tariffs of 25 percent on steel and 10 percent on aluminum. After Trump’s announcement, shares in Manitowoc dropped by 6 percent, Reuters reported in a piece that describes the company as one of the country’s “major consumers of steel.”

As Think Progress notes, Icahn had not bought or sold shares in Manitowoc between January 2015 and February 2018, making the timing of the most recent sell-off look even more suspicious than it already did.

Icahn, who lasted around eight months as Trump’s special adviser for regulatory affairs, has previously been accused of profiting off of his relationship with the president. In November, it was reported that federal investigators are probing Icahn’s role advising Trump and regulatory changes he attempted to push through in order to benefit his energy company.

acptulsa
03-02-2018, 06:49 PM
So?

Only presidents who actually serve the people--like Warren G. Harding--ever get prosecuted for their staff doing Teapot Dome-type stuff.

specsaregood
03-02-2018, 07:06 PM
Icahn’s dumping of close to 1 million shares of Manitowoc Company Inc. was revealed in an SEC filing submitted on February 22, seven days before Trump said he would impose tariffs of 25 percent on steel and 10 percent on aluminum. After Trump’s announcement, shares in Manitowoc dropped by 6 percent, Reuters reported in a piece that describes the company as one of the country’s “major consumers of steel.”

Doesn't add up. It was announced publically Feb. 16 that the commerce department had decided to recommend to trump to impose the tariffs. And that was at least a few days after Trump had publically announced that he had asked the commerce department for their recommendation.

I bought my US steel related stocks Feb. 15th based on this same info I heard publically.

enhanced_deficit
03-02-2018, 07:06 PM
Why single out POTUS friends? This kinda stuff unfortunately not uncommon in politics and other political figures/relatives have faced accusations too.


SEC dropped probe month after firm aided Kushner company (https://nypost.com/2018/03/02/sec-dropped-probe-month-after-firm-aided-kushner-company/)

By Bob Fredericks
March 2, 2018

The revelation came a day after the New York Times reported (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/28/business/jared-kushner-apollo-citigroup-loans.html) that Apollo’s loan to the Kushner Cos. followed several meetings at the White House between the finance company’s execs and Kushner.

I suppose the best case for Kushner is that this looks absolutely terrible,” Rob Weissman, president of Public Citizen, told the AP (https://apnews.com/dcea3eecab2b478aacd70321c6ce9a91/SEC-dropped-inquiry-a-month-after-firm-aided-Kushner-company). “Without presuming that there is any kind of quid pro quo … there are a lot of ways that the fact of Apollo’s engagement with Kushner and the Kushner businesses in a public and private context might cast a shadow over what the SEC is doing and influence consciously or unconsciously how the agency acted.”
Apollo said in its 2018 annual report that the SEC had halted its inquiry into how the firm reported the financial results of its private equity funds and other costs and personnel changes.
The firm had previously reported that the SEC under the Obama administration had subpoenaed it for information related to the issue.

https://nypost.com/2018/03/02/sec-dropped-probe-month-after-firm-aided-kushner-company/

William R
03-02-2018, 07:06 PM
Zippy. Steel stocks went up after Trump announced the tariffs on imports.

specsaregood
03-02-2018, 07:09 PM
Zippy. Steel stocks went up after Trump announced the tariffs on imports.

Its talking about stocks in companies that use steel, not make it.

Zippyjuan
03-02-2018, 07:26 PM
Zippy. Steel stocks went up after Trump announced the tariffs on imports.

From the OP:


describes the company as one of the country’s “major consumers of steel.”

oyarde
03-02-2018, 07:32 PM
When I ran an automotive exhaust stainless steel plant we used no imported steel . You could be a major user of steel and import fees will have no effect .

Zippyjuan
03-02-2018, 07:38 PM
When I ran an automotive exhaust stainless steel plant we used no imported steel . You could be a major user of steel and import fees will have no effect .

Raising the price of imports allows domestic producers to sell their wares at higher prices. It costs you more even if you aren't using imports.

r3volution 3.0
03-02-2018, 07:42 PM
When I ran an automotive exhaust stainless steel plant we used no imported steel . You could be a major user of steel and import fees will have no effect .

Tariffs make the protected domestic industries less efficient (think about the stereotypically lazy Teamster for a labor market analogue).

In the long term, domestic steel prices will rise as well, or at least drop less than they otherwise would have (failure to adopt innovations, etc).

oyarde
03-02-2018, 07:44 PM
Raising the price of imports allows domestic producers to sell their wares at higher prices. It costs you more even if you aren't using imports.

It would have had no effect because we were owned by domestic steel co and a very large consumer . We could basically establish what we would like to pay and let people meet it .

oyarde
03-02-2018, 07:48 PM
Tariffs make the protected domestic industries less efficient (think about the stereotypically lazy Teamster for a labor market analogue).

In the long term, domestic steel prices will rise as well, or at least drop less than they otherwise would have (failure to adopt innovations, etc).

Domestic steel prices are only high because of legacy costs of retirement pensions and health ins and american safety requirements that the foreign competition does not have . Foreign competition though has inferior products , so profit margins should have been huge up to now for them .

Swordsmyth
03-02-2018, 07:49 PM
Tariffs make the protected domestic industries less efficient (think about the stereotypically lazy Teamster for a labor market analogue).

In the long term, domestic steel prices will rise as well, or at least drop less than they otherwise would have (failure to adopt innovations, etc).

"If we allow your neighbor to steal from you it will motivate you to work harder" is not a convincing argument.

r3volution 3.0
03-02-2018, 07:52 PM
Icahn’s dumping of close to 1 million shares of Manitowoc Company Inc. was revealed in an SEC filing submitted on February 22Doesn't add up. It was announced publically Feb. 16 that the commerce department had decided to recommend to trump to impose the tariffs. And that was at least a few days after Trump had publically announced that he had asked the commerce department for their recommendation.

I bought my US steel related stocks Feb. 15th based on this same info I heard publically.

The SEC filing that mentioned Icahn's sale was submitted on Feb. 22.

The actual sale was on Feb. 12.


Icahn unloaded his shares of the crane company on Feb.12, days before the Commerce Department released a report recommending the tariffs that Trump later championed.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-carl-icahn-trump-tariffs-20180302-story.html

When did Trump first mention the tariffs? The first mention AFAIK was the statement from Commerce.

oyarde
03-02-2018, 07:52 PM
Govt is already responsible for the high cost of doing real business in the US .

r3volution 3.0
03-02-2018, 08:00 PM
Domestic steel prices are only high because of legacy costs of retirement pensions and health ins and american safety requirements that the foreign competition does not have . Foreign competition though has inferior products , so profit margins should have been huge up to now for them .

Yep, and curing that rot should have been the focus, rather than protectionism.

Krugminator2
03-02-2018, 08:03 PM
When did Trump first mention the tariffs? The first mention AFAIK was the statement from Commerce.

First alluded to them in December actually. It is bizarre I knew about this and no one in the press seems to remember the news from just a few weeks ago.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-trump/trump-security-plan-boosts-case-for-steel-aluminum-curbs-official-idUSKBN1ED2VW

This is a nothing burger. I watched an interview with Icahn before this news came out. When they asked him about Trump, he said that he hasn't spoken to Trump in five months.

Icahn is basically the most visible market participant on the planet, next to Buffett. There is absolutely no chance whatsoever he made such a visible decision on insider information. This is a witch hunt by morons. I hope I never face a jury in this country. I would not want my fate in the hands of the average person.

dannno
03-02-2018, 08:06 PM
I bought my US steel related stocks Feb. 15th based on this same info I heard publically.

Reported (to the NYT, expect a feature story)

r3volution 3.0
03-02-2018, 08:12 PM
First alluded to them in December actually.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-trump/trump-security-plan-boosts-case-for-steel-aluminum-curbs-official-idUSKBN1ED2VW

This is a nothing burger. I watched an interview with Icahn before this news came out. When they asked him about Trump, he said that he hasn't spoken to Trump in five months.

Icahn is basically the most visible market participant on the planet, next to Buffett. There is absolutely no chance whatsoever he made such a visible decision on insider. This is a witch hunt by morons. I hope I never face a jury in this country. I would not want my fate in the hands of the average person.

Vague talk of tariffs is one thing.

Talk of specific rates to be implemented in the very near future is another (and, AFAIK, the latter came along only after Icahn's sale).

Anyway, you're right that Icahn isn't dumb enough to do something for which he could be prosecuted.

However, that doesn't mean he didn't have inside information (e.g. that the details were soon going to be made public).

specsaregood
03-02-2018, 08:16 PM
When did Trump first mention the tariffs? The first mention AFAIK was the statement from Commerce.

I'm not sure but it was before the 16th, he held a meeting announcing that he was asking the commerce department to research the issue, then some time later on the 16th the commerce department announced their recommendations. It might have been an infrastructure meeting.

r3volution 3.0
03-02-2018, 08:24 PM
I'm not sure but it was before the 16th, he held a meeting announcing that he was asking the commerce department to research the issue, then some time later on the 16th the commerce department announced their recommendations. It might have been an infrastructure meeting.

There was this on the 13th:


President Trump on Tuesday told lawmakers at the White House that he is considering new tariffs on imported steel and aluminum, warning that the domestic industries are being “decimated” by unfair trade.

“They are dumping and destroying our industries,” Trump said. “We can’t let that happen.”

Trump pushed back against several lawmakers who warned him the tariffs could cost U.S. jobs and hurt the broader economy.

“You may have a higher price, but you have jobs,” Trump said during the nearly hourlong meeting, which included lawmakers from both parties.

The White House meeting was scheduled as closed to the press, but Trump let reporters remain in the room. That allowed for an unusual public airing of the tensions between Republican lawmakers and the president on trade.

http://thehill.com/business-a-lobbying/business-a-lobbying/373685-trump-spars-with-gop-lawmakers-on-steel-tariffs

If you search Google, you find talk of tariffs before this, but the big headlines seem to have started here.

timosman
03-02-2018, 08:25 PM
It is nice to see the dynamic duo working together.:cool:

oyarde
03-02-2018, 08:28 PM
Yep, and curing that rot should have been the focus, rather than protectionism.

Ya , makes no difference to me . Steel costs and stocks are of no matter to me , I dumped all my steel stocks more than 13 yrs ago and I need to purchase nothing . Not something I would have done , but meh

Krugminator2
03-02-2018, 08:35 PM
Vague talk of tariffs is one thing.

If you search Google, you find talk of tariffs before this, but the big headlines seem to have started here.

Nothing vague. Had a conversation with my dad about it over Christmas.

Here is from December 13th in Barron's

First paragraph. The timeline was already established.


U.S. Steel (http://www.barrons.com/quote/stock/us/xnys/x?mod=DNH_S)’s stock is a bit like the products it sells: heavy and hard to move. Shares are up about 1% this year, and yet the shares might suddenly get red hot on Feb. 16.

That’s when the U.S. Department of Commerce is expected to finalize a preliminary ruling (https://www.barrons.com/articles/tariffic-or-terrible-steel-import-tariffs-and-the-u-s-1512576247) against Chinese steel makers redirecting steel to Vietnam to circumvent U.S. import laws and sell products without paying import taxes.

“The ruling brings formal action against Chinese steel producers circumventing duties, such as import taxes, carries punitive implications for buyers of those imports and provides a more favorable macro backdrop for U.S. steel producers,” Shawn Quigg, a JPMorgan derivatives strategist, recently advised clients.




https://www.barrons.com/articles/a-red-hot-u-s-steel-trade-1513191258

oyarde
03-02-2018, 08:37 PM
Reported (to the NYT, expect a feature story)

Somebody cut Specs out of the times for me . He will be famous . I will need to show the wife .

oyarde
03-02-2018, 08:42 PM
I see the shithole Co that bought out my old plant right before I left 13 years ago is up 4 cents on the NYSE today . P / E ratio about a million to 1

r3volution 3.0
03-02-2018, 08:47 PM
Nothing vague. Had a conversation with my dad about it over Christmas.

Here is from December 13th in Barron's

First paragraph. The timeline was already established.

https://www.barrons.com/articles/a-red-hot-u-s-steel-trade-1513191258

I don't think an expected ruling by Commerce is the same as the actual statement by Commerce, or by the POTUS.

Let me put it this way; why are steel tariffs now dominating the news cycle, rather than a couple weeks ago?

Krugminator2
03-02-2018, 09:02 PM
Let me put it this way; why are steel tariffs now dominating the news cycle, rather than a couple weeks ago?


Potential tariffs aren't interesting. Trump has been bloviating about them for 30 years.

This just now fits into the reality show. If I had to guess, I would say Icahn was aware of the timeline, just like everyone else. As the announcement date approached he decided to take some risk off just in case something major like tariffs were announced. He sold just part of his stake.

Let's say Icahn owned a drug company. There was an FDA announcement coming up. He sells part of his position because he doesn't want full exposure if the FDA rejects a drug. The drug then gets rejected. Morons will accuse Icahn of knowing something, when in reality he just managing risk.

r3volution 3.0
03-02-2018, 09:05 PM
Potential tariffs aren't interesting. Trump has been bloviating about them for 30 years.

This just now fits into the reality show. If I had to guess, I would say Icahn was aware of the timeline, just like everyone else. As the announcement date approached he decided to take some risk off just in case something major like tariffs were announced. He sold just part of his stake.

Sure, but it's equally plausible that he knew it was going to be a bigger deal than most people (read: investors) were expecting.

We'll never know.

Suffice it to say, there's a lot of insider trading by politically connected people, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's what this was.

nikcers
03-02-2018, 09:07 PM
Sure, but it's equally plausible that he knew it was going to be a bigger deal than most people (read: investors) were expecting.

We'll never know.

Suffice it to say, there's a lot of insider trading by politically connected people, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's what this was.
Someone took off his Hillary for prison button.

Krugminator2
03-02-2018, 09:18 PM
Sure, but it's equally plausible that he knew it was going to be a bigger deal than most people (read: investors) were expecting.

We'll never know.

Suffice it to say, there's a lot of insider trading by politically connected people, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's what this was.

I am big Icahn fan. I would put the odds at zero percent that he did something wrong.

A lot of people involved in corporate raiding went to prison the 80's. The banker who did all Icahn's deals, Michael Milken, and his neighbor Ivan Boesky went to prison for insider trading. Icahn got an anal probe and there wasn't a hint of impropriety. He isn't doing something stupid like this at 82 years old to increase his net worth by .0002%.

r3volution 3.0
03-02-2018, 09:35 PM
I am big Icahn fan. I would put the odds at zero percent that he did something wrong.

Well, he did endorse Trump.


He isn't doing something stupid like this at 82 years old to increase his net worth by .0002%.

It's only stupid if you get caught.

A smart inside trader would only use inside info when he can construct a justification for his action based on public information.

eleganz
03-03-2018, 02:33 AM
You really have to re-evaluate your membership here when you start posting links to think progress to make a point.

The steel tariff talk has been going on for a while.

Next thread.

enhanced_deficit
03-03-2018, 03:18 PM
Is something going behind the scene relating to Deep Stage leaks? It seems as if negative stories about Trump and his close aides/pals have more than doubled this week.

Trump ally reportedly in talks to earn $75 million if he could get the US probe into 1MDB dropped (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/03/1mdb-trump-ally-elliot-broidy-tries-to-get-75-million-to-end-us-probe.html)



Elliot Broidy, a republican donor, and his wife Robin Rosenzweig, discussed setting up a consulting contract with Jho Low, who is at the center of the 1MDB scandal.
The contract proposed a $75 million fee for Broidy and his wife if they could get the Justice Department to drop its probe into 1MDB.
The Wall Street Journal reviewed a cache of emails which revealed the connections.

Arjun Kharpal | @ArjunKharpal

Published 3 Hours Ago Updated 1 Hour Ago



Related

Jay Clayton as SEC chair akin to a fox guarding a hen house

By Former Sen. Ted Kaufman (D-Del.), Opinion Contributor - 03/13/17The Trump campaign’s final TV commercial last November spelled out his pledge to take on Wall Street. It featured a photo of Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein and a voice over describing “a global power structure that is responsible for the economic decisions that have robbed our working class.”
If you worked for Goldman Sachs, you might have thought you were in for a tough time when the election results came in.
It soon became apparent that Goldman had little to fear after the announcements of Trump appointees such as Steven Bannon, Trump's top advisor in the White House and a former Goldman partner; Secretary of Treasury Steven Mnuchin, a former Goldman partner; Chairman of the National Economic Club Gary Cohn, the former president of Goldman and Goldman Sach’s “go-to” lawyer, Walter “Jay” Clayton, for chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC).

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/finance/323752-jay-clayton-as-sec-chair-akin-to-a-fox-guarding-the-hen-house

specsaregood
08-09-2018, 07:38 AM
I am big Icahn fan. I would put the odds at zero percent that he did something wrong.

A lot of people involved in corporate raiding went to prison the 80's. The banker who did all Icahn's deals, Michael Milken, and his neighbor Ivan Boesky went to prison for insider trading. Icahn got an anal probe and there wasn't a hint of impropriety. He isn't doing something stupid like this at 82 years old to increase his net worth by .0002%.

I'd just like to say that I bought into his investment partnership because of this thread in march and it has been very good to me.
And the more I read from him, the more I like.

Krugminator2
08-09-2018, 08:48 AM
I'd just like to say that I bought into his investment partnership because of this thread in march and it has been very good to me.
And the more I read from him, the more I like.

If you are interested in reading about him, read King Icahn. Great read. A lot of the Gordon Gekko scenes like the shareholders scene were based on real life events from Icahn in the 80s. Just the stories in the book on how he negotiates are super entertaining and insightful. I use the Icahn method of wearing people down for everything now.

juleswin
08-09-2018, 09:24 AM
I'd just like to say that I bought into his investment partnership because of this thread in march and it has been very good to me.
And the more I read from him, the more I like.

Oh yea, the man that backed the herbalife ponzi scheme, I am sure he is such a swell guy.

specsaregood
08-09-2018, 09:24 AM
If you are interested in reading about him, read King Icahn. Great read. A lot of the Gordon Gekko scenes like the shareholders scene were based on real life events from Icahn in the 80s. Just the stories in the book on how he negotiates are super entertaining and insightful. I use the Icahn method of wearing people down for everything now.

thanks, I was just looking for a book on him this morning after reading his press release against a deal. I'll pick that up.

Krugminator2
08-09-2018, 10:25 AM
Oh yea, the man that backed the herbalife ponzi scheme, I am sure he is such a swell guy.

What's wrong with that again? His job is to make money. And he made a fortune in Herbalife. Not to mention it just hit new all time highs. The Ponzi scheme allegation are five years old. At some point you have to admit you are wrong.

specsaregood
08-09-2018, 10:27 AM
What's wrong with that again? His job is to make money. And he made a fortune in Herbalife. Not to mention it just hit new all time highs. The Ponzi scheme allegation are five years old. At some point you have to admit you are wrong.

at some point you have to realize that some people just aren't worth replying to.

juleswin
08-09-2018, 10:34 AM
What's wrong with that again? His job is to make money. And he made a fortune in Herbalife. Not to mention it just hit new all time highs. The Ponzi scheme allegation are five years old. At some point you have to admit you are wrong.

Good people are hurt by ponzi schemes and secondly there is more to life than making money. Integrity counts for something.

timosman
08-09-2018, 10:44 AM
Good people are hurt by ponzi schemes and secondly there is more to life than making money. Integrity counts for something.

Nice try, Mr. Integrity. :D

Do not let them use your values against you.

nikcers
08-09-2018, 10:48 AM
Nice try, Mr. Integrity. :D

Do not let them use your values against you.
That's not a joke, good natured people tend to get taken advantage of by people who use their empathy against them.

nikcers
08-09-2018, 11:00 AM
Good people are hurt by ponzi schemes and secondly there is more to life than making money. Integrity counts for something.
We are all for free enterprise and greed that creates competing ideas and pits ambition against ambition which brings the best out of humanity and causes the least amount of people to go hungry. That doesn't mean someone is ethical because they did something unethical that was in their personal interests

juleswin
08-09-2018, 11:01 AM
Nice try, Mr. Integrity. :D

Do not let them use your values against you.

Why are u trolling me? I never said I was Mr. Integrity. But I have some integrity and I will not engage in any money making venture that I believe hurts people. That means, no MLM ponzi schemes, 419 romance scams, will not sell hard drugs, will not pimp young women, work for the military or any MIC company etc etc no matter how bad I need the money.

Some people on the other hand don't care how the money comes in.

juleswin
08-09-2018, 11:07 AM
We are all for free enterprise and greed that creates competing ideas and pits ambition against ambition which brings the best out of humanity and causes the least amount of people to go hungry. That doesn't mean someone is ethical because they did something unethical that was in their personal interests

Did u mean to say "someone is unethical" instead of ethical?

Krugminator2
08-09-2018, 11:07 AM
Good people are hurt by ponzi schemes and secondly there is more to life than making money. Integrity counts for something.

1. It was ruled to not be a Ponzi scheme
2. The role of a market participant is to make money. I would consider passing on a good investment a lack of integrity from a public money manager like Icahn. His job isn't to be a moral arbiter.

nikcers
08-09-2018, 11:16 AM
Why are u trolling me? I never said I was Mr. Integrity. But I have some integrity and I will not engage in any money making venture that I believe hurts people. That means, no MLM ponzi schemes, 419 romance scams, will not sell hard drugs, will not pimp young women, work for the military or any MIC company etc etc no matter how bad I need the money.

Some people on the other hand don't care how the money comes in.
What if the hard drugs were legal to sell to someone like alcohol is and it was someone who was already addicted to them and they would die from withdrawals, or is it ethically worse to sell hard drugs to someone who has never tried them knowing they will get addicted?

juleswin
08-09-2018, 11:17 AM
1. It was ruled to not be a Ponzi scheme
2. The role of a market participant is to make money. I would consider passing on a good investment a lack of integrity from a public money manager like Icahn. His job isn't to be a moral arbiter.

I guess you are right, I guess it would also show lack of integrity if he passed on a money making investment dealing with the trade and experimentation of fetal tissues and organs procured from abortion clinics.

Some people have a moral compass that points to good vs bad, other have one that just points to profits vs loss. Not saying the man should go to prison, just not someone I will ever look up to.

juleswin
08-09-2018, 11:21 AM
What if the hard drugs were legal to sell to someone like alcohol is and it was someone who was already addicted to them and they would die from withdrawals, or is it ethically worse to sell hard drugs to someone who has never tried them knowing they will get addicted?

Ofc, there are exceptions to every rule. I am sure if you try hard enough, u will find an exception to the rule for just about anything. I am not talking about the very rare exceptions. Also alcohol is not a hard drug.

nikcers
08-09-2018, 11:27 AM
Ofc, there are exceptions to every rule. I am sure if you try hard enough, u will find an exception to the rule for just about anything. I am not talking about the very rare exceptions. Also alcohol is not a hard drug.
Well if you look hard enough you can "find" anything that's just humanity. I don't know how you can make exceptions on principles like non aggression or fraud being unethical.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
08-09-2018, 11:28 AM
This argument is akin to progressives attacking the "rich" for paying few taxes. The progs neglect to mention that "rich" people actually pay attention to money instead of blowing it on lottery tickets and cigarettes.

If you're some Wall St guy, then you don't have to dig very deep to see something like this coming. While some are sitting on the couch watching tee vee, others are paying attention.


I once heard there are 3 types of people in the world:

1. Those who make things happen
2. Those who observe what happens
3. Those who wondered what happened


The people who fall into 2 and 3 always complain about this stuff.

timosman
08-09-2018, 11:29 AM
That's not a joke, good natured people tend to get taken advantage of by people who use their empathy against them.

Only libertarians.:D

juleswin
08-09-2018, 11:40 AM
Well if you look hard enough you can "find" anything that's just humanity. I don't know how you can make exceptions on principles like non aggression or fraud being unethical.

I really don't understand this post. Find anything that is just humanity? You make exception to rules because no principle covers every scenario in life. It is really that simple.

nikcers
08-09-2018, 12:30 PM
I really don't understand this post. Find anything that is just humanity? You make exception to rules because no principle covers every scenario in life. It is really that simple.
see this: it's good to try to be aware of ones bias so you can't succumb to motivated reasoning, its a good way to logically construct things in your head.

Motivated reasoning is a form of reasoning in which people access, construct, and evaluate arguments in a biased fashion to arrive at or endorse a preferred conclusion. The term motivated in motivated reasoning refers to the fact that people use reasoning strategies that allow them to draw the conclusions they want to draw (i.e., are motivated to draw). Of course, people are not always motivated to confirm their preferred conclusions. Actually, they sometimes are motivated to draw accurate conclusions. However, the term motivated reasoning refers to situations in which people want to confirm their preferred conclusion rather than to situations in which people’s reasoning is driven by an accuracy motivation.

nikcers
08-09-2018, 12:33 PM
I really don't understand this post. Find anything that is just humanity? You make exception to rules because no principle covers every scenario in life. It is really that simple.
No principle fits the definition of the word principle than. I guess words mean different things to different people.

specsaregood
08-20-2018, 12:24 AM
If you are interested in reading about him, read King Icahn. Great read. A lot of the Gordon Gekko scenes like the shareholders scene were based on real life events from Icahn in the 80s. Just the stories in the book on how he negotiates are super entertaining and insightful. I use the Icahn method of wearing people down for everything now.

I really enjoyed the book, its a bit dated now but gave a lot of history and insight into the man. thanks.