Large Donors: Donate Gold or Silver American Eagles to the campaign

[gerryb]

Donate REAL Money to the campaign in the form of circulating Gold and Silver American Eagles. You can purchase legal tender Silver American Eagles in U.S. Mint $1 denominations, or legal tender Gold American Eagles in U.S. Mint denominations of $50, then donate these to the campaign instead of devalued FRN's.

Any high rollers up to donating $2,300 in Silver American Eagles (2,300 SAE's)??

http://www.rense.com/general78/defeat.htm
"Tax Questions Raised Regarding Gold and Silver Coins Used to Pay Wages

Around noon on Monday, September 17th, a Las Vegas federal jury returned its verdict refusing to convict nine defendants of any of the 161 federal tax crimes they had been charged with. The charges included income tax evasion, willful failure to file and conspiracy to evade taxes.

The four-month trial centered around the family businesses of Robert Kahre who paid numerous workers for their labor with circulating gold and silver U.S. coins, and did not report the wages. The payments took place over several years, allegedly totaling at least $114 million dollars. "

http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2007/Q3/C00432914.html
"III. Contributed Items (stock, Art Objects, Etc.)
31. Items On Hand To Be Liquidated 0.00"

From the US Mint
http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/american_eagles/index.cfm?Action=american_eagle_silver
"American Eagle Silver Bullion Coins are affordable investments, beautiful collectibles, thoughtful gifts and memorable incentives or rewards. Above all, as legal tender, they're the only silver bullion coins whose weight and purity are guaranteed by the United States Government. They're also the only silver coins allowed in an IRA."

[Austin]

I'm pretty sure FEC regulates based on value of gifts.. I wouldn't promote such an activity without knowing the ins and outs..

[gerryb]

I'm pretty sure FEC regulates based on value of gifts.. I wouldn't promote such an activity without knowing the ins and outs..

The legal tender value set by the U.S. Mint are the coins face value of $1 for SAE, $50 for GAE, and $100 for PAE. How can the FEC say the "value" is more or less than the legal tender value?

[theseus51]

I really, really, really don't think you can do this. If you could, all the special interest candidates would be raking in hundreds of millions of dollars.

[gerryb]

I really, really, really don't think you can do this. If you could, all the special interest candidates would be raking in hundreds of millions of dollars.

None of the other candidates understand The Constitution and rule of law.

[Mark Rushmore]

I really, really, really don't think you can do this. If you could, all the special interest candidates would be raking in hundreds of millions of dollars.

How about $86 million or $70 million or whatever the Dem frontrunners have? Between them they literally have raised 'hundreds of millions of dollars' No chance some of it came this way? If it shows on the reporting as $2300 - how would you personally ever know?

[theseus51]

None of the other candidates understand The Constitution and rule of law.

I am absolutely positive, that the thousands of lawyers, working on thousands of campaigns since the FEC, looking for every single possible loophole in campaign finance laws to get more money to their candidates legally, have not missed this one.

[gerryb]

I am absolutely positive, that the thousands of lawyers, working on thousands of campaigns since the FEC, looking for every single possible loophole in campaign finance laws to get more money to their candidates legally, have not missed this one.

maybe so, but that tax case was just recently settled on Sept 17th 2007.

[TheIndependent]

maybe so, but that tax case was just recently settled on Sept 20th 2007.

Tax case != Presidential Campaign

Apples to oranges. Talk to a qualified attorney before doing ANYTHING like this.

[BlueGecko]

someone should check this out like donating the 20 gold coin and campain can sell for 800

[Primbs]

It may not have been contemplated by the writers of the FEC law. Still they should consult a lawyer.

It might say somewhere either dollars or value to the campaign. Especially with in kind contribution where one puts the value on what is being donated.

[Alawn]

This isn't worth going to court over. I'm sure people would freak out if people did this.

[MikeStanart]

LoL You guys are too creative sometimes.

But yes; i'm Sure the campaign would not look favorably upon this;

Nor do I think it's Legal.


I'm sure at the point that they sold the item you donated; they would have to claim that you donated the amount it sold.

(Would be my guess)

[gerryb]

Nor do I think it's Legal.

I'm sure at the point that they sold the item you donated; they would have to claim that you donated the amount it sold.

(Would be my guess)

I wonder why it would be any different in a tax case then it is for campaign finance.

In regards to the campaign having to declare the amount it sold for... I wonder what happens if someone donates $2,300 FRN's worth of oil or a painting, and the price of the donated item goes up before it is sold.. do they have to give the difference back to the donor..., or is it capital/investment gains for the campaign if the value can be established at the time of the donation. I don't even know if campaigns are allowed to have investment gains...

[jasonoliver]

I think I will only start accepting Platinum Eagle Proof Coins for my business :D

Instead of receiving and paying taxes on $50,000, I could receive about 28 of these, and pay taxes on $2,800!

:D;):p:eek::cool:

http://catalog.usmint.gov/wcsstore/ConsumerDirect/images/catalog/en_US/7T1_popup.jpg

[theseus51]

Did you ever think of the ramifications of this? I'm guessing there are very few Ron Paul supporters who gave $2300. There are many, many, many people who gave the max to the special interest candidates. If this idea were legitimized, sure a few Ron Paul supporters could give more, but think of all the maxed out contributors who gave special interest candidates $2300. They could give waaaaay more.

Sure Ron Paul may add 20% to his overall fundraising totals, but the special interest candidates would quadruple theirs.

[Starks]

If you donate the rare coin and report its worth as equal to the face value, there is no crime. The intrinsic value of the coin is something that is in the FEC gray area.

[robert4rp08]

Genius idea. American Eagle coins are LEGAL TENDER. They are marked with a face value and to be used as such- as defined by the U.S. mint.

Incidentally, did you know Ron Paul helped get the American Eagle coin program started because the U.S. mint stopped minting coins all together and well.... that's unconstitutional. Of course the slimey government knew that a bunch of silver and gold in circulation would destroy the Federal Reserve System so they put a DUMMY face value on them to keep people from using them.

Their intrinsic value is not relevant. The face value is what is relevant!

American Eagle coins are LEGAL TENDER.

[mrd]

I thought in that tax case lawyers argued he didn't know the tax code required the worth of the coins to be reported, and assumed reporting the face value was legal. They asked some IRS experts on the stand, and they said they'd have to look it up. Thus, if the experts weren't even sure, how could he be sure? I think it's only illegal to falsely report taxes if you know they're false.

I highly doubt this is legal.

[kutibah]

Wow....great great idea!

[robert4rp08]

I thought in that tax case lawyers argued he didn't know the tax code required the worth of the coins to be reported, and assumed reporting the face value was legal. They asked some IRS experts on the stand, and they said they'd have to look it up. Thus, if the experts weren't even sure, how could he be sure? I think it's only illegal to falsely report taxes if you know they're false.

I highly doubt this is legal.

Completely legal. The coins are minted as legal tender. The coins have a face value. Thus the coins are intended to be used at face value. This is a trick by the government to discourage use of gold/silver by making the face value less than the intrinsic value of the precious metal. It backfired on them; that's why the news was buried. If everyone started doing this, the fed would be sunk. (that's why they went after Liberty Dollar whom has over $20 million in coins in circulation)

Think about it like this.... when you get paid with federal reserve notes (paper money) or coins (quarters, nickels, dime), do you report the face value or the intrinsic value?

[gerryb]

I thought in that tax case lawyers argued he didn't know the tax code required the worth of the coins to be reported, and assumed reporting the face value was legal. They asked some IRS experts on the stand, and they said they'd have to look it up. Thus, if the experts weren't even sure, how could he be sure? I think it's only illegal to falsely report taxes if you know they're false.

I highly doubt this is legal.

Their worth is the US Government Legal Tender value as set by the Mint.

[LeonardK]

Any gift must be valued at fair market value. The fair market value of a $1 FRN is $1. The fair market value of a Silver Eagle is $16, and this is what the campaign would have to report to the FEC.

[robert4rp08]

Any gift must be valued at fair market value. The fair market value of a $1 FRN is $1. The fair market value of a Silver Eagle is $16, and this is what the campaign would have to report to the FEC.

It's not a gift. It's a form of payment no different then sending FRN or a check.

[Fyretrohl]

I am not a lawyer, but, I would agree with the folks who state this is legal tender and has a value. Intrisic Value is typically the method used to calcuate things that don't have a stamped, legal value. Should not be applied in this case, as the face value is the legally definable value.

[gerryb]

Any gift must be valued at fair market value. The fair market value of a $1 FRN is $1. The fair market value of a Silver Eagle is $16, and this is what the campaign would have to report to the FEC.

The fair market value is $1, as stated by the U.S. Mint (link in original post)
http://www.usmint.gov/images/mint_programs/american_eagles/2007-SilverEagle-Bull-R_180.jpg
See the "One Dollar" printed on it? That is the real legal tender value.

How is it any different than if I were to give this
http://www.wpclipart.com/money/US_Currency/US_Nickel_back.png

which recently had an "intrinsic" value of 7.5 cents (it also recently became illegal to melt them, however). http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1946-2007-Jefferson-Nickel-Value.html

[LibertyDollarUSA-com]

This whole point rests on the assumption that you expect the government to be consistent and abide by its own rules.

It does not. And the courts won't hold them to them.

Thus they can count the SAE as being worth $1 when it suits them, and worth $20 when it suits them. T hey get to have it both ways, you don't.

BTW, I have always thought the Silver Eagle was pretty ugly. (The Platinum is nice, though)... but I think I was spoiled by the Liberty Dollar.

If you've never held a Liberty Dollar, please buy one while you still can-- I'm having an inventory Liquidation at my store (the only store still operating after the raid) at http://LibertyDollarUSA.com

It really is an amazing and lovely piece...

[Bradley in DC]

I wish you had suggested it before I maxed out!

[Tn...Andy]

That's me handing Ron Paul a silver round we had made at www.Goldismoney.info about a week ago in Greenville, SC.

http://www.digistash.com/data/026a39ae63343c68b5223a95f3e17616/full_5728_p120803.jpeg