Trump gun proposal meets conservative opposition

[Swordsmyth]

President Donald Trump's gun control proposal is already running into Republican resistance, as conservatives from across the country suggested in interviews Friday that they will not line up behind their leader on this issue.
Trump has outlined a wide-ranging series of proposals to combat gun violence in the wake of a massacre at a Florida high school that killed 17 last week. One measure: "raise age to 21," he tweeted this week. That move to raise the age for buying certain weapons has support from a number of Republican lawmakers--most significantly, Florida Gov. Rick Scott, who on Friday proposed raising the minimum age for purchasing any firearm from 18 to 21.
But conservative officials and activists are signaling significant discomfort with that idea, which is opposed (https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/23/nra-age-limit-assault-style-rifles-422738) by the powerful National Rifle Association.
"I don't know that there's going to be enough support in the House to get that passed," Rep. Mark Meadows, R-N.C., who chairs the conservative House Freedom Caucus, told McClatchy here on the sidelines of the Conservative Political Action Conference. He didn't rule it out entirely, and added that lawmakers are looking at a “comprehensive” package, but continued, "Obviously, everyone is in the information-gathering mode at this point and it will be difficult, based on the members that I've talked to at this point, to get enough support."


Of course, there are also Republicans who support the measure—or are willing to go further. A number of GOP lawmakers, including Florida Sen. Marco Rubio and Kansas Sen. Pat Roberts, have indicated (http://www.kansascity.com/latest-news/article201598559.html) support for raising the age limit for certain rifles. Vice President Mike Pence also didn’t shy away from again mentioning raising the age limit while speaking at an event on Friday.
Rep. Brian Mast, a Florida Republican and a veteran, wrote (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/23/opinion/brian-mast-assault-weapons-ban.html?smid=tw-nytopinion&smtyp=cur) an op-ed in The New York Times expressing support for a ban on future purchase of assault weapons.

And even Kelli Ward, who is running as a conservative candidate in the contested Arizona Senate primary, didn’t rule out the proposal, saying “it has to be on the table” even as she questioned the need for more gun laws.

More at: http://www.miamiherald.com/latest-news/article201854944.html

[Danke]

But, but...there is no difference between Republicans and Democrats....

[Swordsmyth]

But, but...there is no difference between Republicans and Democrats....

Who cares about gun rights anyway?

[Danke]

Who cares about gun rights anyway?


I’d start here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?519579-Trump-Bans-Bump-Stocks


A lot of them came out of the woodwork.

[nikcers]

Who cares about gun rights anyway?
Yeah I can't believe the people not wanting to support gun rights and not support invading Syria? The government has a right to steal money from us and use it to buy guns to give it to people in Syria. Plus he even started invading Syria and started unlimited spending on government guns. He just wants to keep us safe, why don't you guys want to be safe? How can you be for guns and not for unlimited spending on government guns?

[EBounding]

The Trumpsplanations on facebook are funny:

https://i.imgur.com/6uODxTK.png

[acptulsa]

But, but...there is no difference between Republicans and Democrats....

Do you have a point?


Of course, there are also Republicans who support the measure—or are willing to go further. A number of GOP lawmakers, including Florida Sen. Marco Rubio and Kansas Sen. Pat Roberts, have indicated support for raising the age limit for certain rifles. Vice President Mike Pence also didn’t shy away from again mentioning raising the age limit while speaking at an event on Friday.
Rep. Brian Mast, a Florida Republican and a veteran, wrote an op-ed in The New York Times expressing support for a ban on future purchase of assault weapons.

Because I don't see any evidence at all that a capital R next to his or her name is any guarantee at all that any politician is fit for a position of power.

[nikcers]

"It's a big deal trying to figure out who are the Republicans among you that you want to represent you, because it isn't just any ole Republican will do, and I can tell you this is true at the national level-" (https://youtu.be/cNJEVT4OOCw?t=1m5s)Rand Paul

[Brian4Liberty]

Because I don't see any evidence at all that a capital R next to his or her name is any guarantee at all that any politician is fit for a position of power.

That's the whole point of neoconservatives running as Republicans. On almost every left-wing issue, they can trot out at least one of Rubio, Graham, McCain, Collins, etc. and say "look over here, it has Republican support, it is bipartisan".

[Swordsmyth]

Do you have a point?



Because I don't see any evidence at all that a capital R next to his or her name is any guarantee at all that any politician is fit for a position of power.

ALL the Demoncrats are bad, with the Republicans there is a chance you can get a good one.

[acptulsa]

ALL the Demoncrats are bad, with the Republicans there is a chance you can get a good one.

Are you making all of Danke's points for him, or just when he gives you a chance to insert your usual partisan spam?

[timosman]

ALL the Demoncrats are bad, with the Republicans there is a chance you can get a good one.

Only 90% are RINOs?:confused:

[acptulsa]

Only 90% are RINOs?:confused:

If we keep playing those odds, we'll be comfortably ensconced in those cool FEMA camps by next Christmas!

[CCTelander]

If we keep playing those odds, we'll be comfortably ensconced in those cool FEMA camps by next Christmas!


Not if you vote hard enough! ;)

[enhanced_deficit]

Seems like other than extreme right wing of Israel Firster zionists/pro Syria intervention neocons camp, there is little genuine and sincere support left for Trump from his allies? Good part of GOP base still sees him as the "lesser evil" having stung by Obama but for for how long he will be able to keep "holding their noses" conservatives' support if he returned to his Schumer roots as some are predicting?


https://i.imgflip.com/11qbr2.jpg

Donald Trump donated $100,000 to the Clinton Foundation
August 28th, 2016
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...on-foundation/ (http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/aug/28/david-plouffe/yes-donald-trump-donated-100000-clinton-foundation/)

Gun owners turn on Donald Trump over plans to bring in tighter restrictions
'Out in the firearms community there is a great feeling of betrayal and abandonment,' says Colorado Sports Shooting Association's president
3 hours ago http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-gun-owners-control-florida-shooting-bump-stock-nra-latest-a8226461.html



Related

Right wing of GOP starting to turn on Trump? (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?518780-Right-wing-of-GOP-starting-to-turn-on-Trump&)


Trump's Friends At Breitbart Brand Him 'Amnesty Don' Over DACA Comments

By Harriet Sinclair On 1/25/18

https://pics.astrologymemes.com/amnesty-don-report-trump-caves-on-daca-top-of-breitbart-27687298.png

[Swordsmyth]

Only 90% are RINOs?:confused:

Even the RINOs are better than the Demoncrats, if the Demoncrats ever get both houses and the presidency we will become indistinguishable from Europe.

The Swampublicans are bad but those who pretend that the Demoncrats aren't worse just reveal that they are closet Demoncrats.

[ProBlue33]

Raise the age to 21, ban bump stocks, and create a data base for mental health, when the founders created the 2nd amendment mental and emotional health was much stronger. You didn't have any people on mental health aiding drugs, and if they were they were locked up. Because today many people just can't handle the pressures of modern life without them. I don't blame them either, but we need to protect ourselves from members of society that are more prone to just snap and do this type of thing.

[RonZeplin]

Republicans & Democrats are the problem, not the solution.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/79/5d/f8/795df8da40c3eb58ec19f208fbfb735b.jpg

[acptulsa]

Even the RINOs are better than the Demoncrats, if the Demoncrats ever get both houses and the presidency we will become indistinguishable from Europe.

The Swampublicans are bad but those who pretend that the Demoncrats aren't worse just reveal that they are closet Demoncrats.

The EU is crumbling even faster than the Tenth Amendment.

Maybe letting the "Demoncrats" build seven more stories on the house of cards is our only hope.

Even someone as partisan as you must admit there's merit in this observation:


Maybe I misinterpreted it. Don't know. But, what I do know is that conservatives/patriots tend to go to sleep when someone they think is likewise is doing the talking. When if it was a leftist, they would be screaming bloody murder.

Are we better off electing RINOs and watching conservatives sleep, or are we better off electing Democrats that are honest about being Democrats and keeping the conservatives screaming bloody murder?

I don't for a second think that choice is as clear as you do. I personally think RINOs are sometimes allowed to get away with more than Democratic politicians are.

Maybe even 'often'.

Tell me this: If we elect everything put before us with an R next to its name, what incentive does the GOP have to run actual conservatives for office? That, you see, is the only leverage libertarians have in the party. And if we listen to you and settle for being 'good team players', like abortion foes and fiscal conservatives and all manner of our conservative predecessors, the party will wind up left of the DNC.

[Swordsmyth]

Raise the age to 21, ban bump stocks, and create a data base for mental health, when the founders created the 2nd amendment mental and emotional health was much stronger. You didn't have any people on mental health aiding drugs, and if they were they were locked up. Because today many people just can't handle the pressures of modern life without them. I don't blame them either, but we need to protect ourselves from members of society that are more prone to just snap and do this type of thing.

That's right, let's continue to salami slice the 2ndA to death.:rolleyes:

[Swordsmyth]

Republicans & Democrats are the problem, not the solution.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/79/5d/f8/795df8da40c3eb58ec19f208fbfb735b.jpg

That can be true without trying to claim that the Demoncrats aren't worse.

[Swordsmyth]

The EU is crumbling even faster than the Tenth Amendment.

Maybe letting the "Demoncrats" build seven more stories on the house of cards is our only hope.

Even someone as partisan as you must admit there's merit in this observation:



Are we better off electing RINOs and watching conservatives sleep, or are we better off electing Democrats that are honest about being Democrats and keeping the conservatives screaming bloody murder?

I don't for a second think that choice is as clear as you do. I personally think RINOs are sometimes allowed to get away with more than Democratic politicians are.

Maybe even 'often'.

Tell me this: If we elect everything put before us with an R next to its name, what incentive does the GOP have to run actual conservatives for office? That, you see, is the only leverage libertarians have in the party. And if we listen to you and settle for being 'good team players', like abortion foes and fiscal conservatives and all manner of our conservative predecessors, the party will wind up left of the DNC.

You keep claiming I say things I don't, my consistent position is to vote for the best available option and if the best option is bad enough I won't vote for it, I didn't vote for Trump in the general last time (I wrote in Ron) and in spite of his exceeding my expectations I may not next time.

[acptulsa]

That can be true without trying to claim that the Demoncrats aren't worse.

If the both of them is the problem, if we get screwed when one of them plays us off against the other, then quibbling about which of them is what is how we bend ourselves over for our bipartisan screwing.

You keep simpering about which is the bad cop and which is the good cop. They're both cops! They're working together to put your ass in prison!

Jesus...

[Swordsmyth]

If the both of them is the problem, if we get screwed when one of them plays us off against the other, then quibbling about which of them is what is how we bend ourselves over for our bipartisan screwing.

You keep simpering about which is the bad cop and which is the good cop. They're both cops! They're working together to put your ass in prison!

Jesus...

It's called political triage, if you can't discern between a severed artery, a broken bone and a laceration you are going to do a terrible job trying to save people.

[kahless]

https://i.imgur.com/7j7eNGu.gif

[acptulsa]

It's called political triage, if you can't discern between a severed artery, a broken bone and a laceration you are going to do a terrible job trying to save people.

LOL

The road to hell on earth is paved with people who thought slowing our progress down this road right this second was too important, and we could just wait and look for the right road later.

That is how they play us. You can get more blood out of a thousand veins than one artery. We spend so much time defending our arteries, we never take the offensive--and our liberty dies the death of a thousand cuts.

[Swordsmyth]

LOL

The road to hell on earth is paved with people who thought slowing our progress down this road right this second was too important, and we could just wait and look for the right road later.

That is how they play us. You can get more blood out of a thousand veins than one artery. We spend so much time defending our arteries, we never take the offensive--and our liberty dies the death of a thousand cuts.

I support ALL constructive activities and ALL true liberty candidates but when one isn't available and there is a major difference between the options I WILL choose the less bad option.

[ProBlue33]

That's right, let's continue to salami slice the 2ndA to death.:rolleyes:

Let me respond to this since you neg rep me

1) Age; Most car-rental companies require renters to be at least 21 years old, the legal drinking age in America in most states is 21, so moving gun buying and ownership to that age does not infringe on the second amendment in my opinion, just like those other restrictions are there to restrict people that are less experienced in life and also known for doing immature things as a group. 21 is good age to start since they are also well out of high school by then too.

2)Bump stocks produce rapid fire in a gimmicky manner, and it throws a bone to the other side.

3)The mental health data base is the one I have the most issues with actually, but hey we can't have crazy people with guns. Protect the second amendment by all means, but guns needs to be kept away from those members of society that have mental issue that includes rage. This might be controversial I know, the guns aren't killing people, it is the people pulling the triggers and pointing them.

Even then all three of these can be bypassed if anybody wanted to buy this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsSYngXbCc0

[kahless]

1) Age; Most car-rental companies require renters to be at least 21 years old, the legal drinking age in America in most states is 21, so moving gun buying and ownership to that age does not infringe on the second amendment in my opinion, just like those other restrictions are there to restrict people that are less experienced in life and also known for doing immature things as a group. 21 is good age to start since they are also well out of high school by then too.

2)Bump stocks produce rapid fire in a gimmicky manner, and it throws a bone to the other side.

3)The mental health data base is the one I have the most issues with actually, but hey we can't have crazy people with guns. Protect the second amendment by all means, but guns needs to be kept away from those members of society that have mental issue that includes rage. This might be controversial I know, the guns aren't killing people, it is the people pulling the triggers and pointing them.

Even then all three of these can be bypassed if anybody wanted to buy this.


I do not disagree with you on some of this but the concern is where does it go from there.

1. At what point is this not age discrimination. After it is 21 some states will raise it to 23, after it is 23, then 25, you can see where it is going.

You mention car-rental companies and I could provide a good example of age creep and age discrimination of responsible adults at that age. Many years ago I flew to a rural airport for work in the middle of no where and was denied a pre-booked rental because they said 24 was too young and they had too many partiers renting cars.

Did not matter I was on business dressed in a suit and tie, had business cards, it was the last flight for a few days, there were no services, no taxis at the airport and the nearest town was 10 miles out in 95 degree heat. They were closing up and they were like too bad. Of course the employees did not give a shit it would not give me a lift. I was just a peon at the time in a company with several thousand people and it took the CEO calling their big shots so I would not be stranded for a few days.

2. Further regulation and fines creep.

3. Someone with real problems is one thing but how far are they going to take it. You do not want to see restrictions on anyone that has ever had an SSRI in their lifetime. What is the stat now half the country on SSRI's.

I would add #4.

4. Domestic Abuse. This is already abused with false accusations, no doubt they will deny someone without any conviction or some dispute that happened 10 20 30 years ago.

[Swordsmyth]

1) Age; Most car-rental companies require renters to be at least 21 years old, the legal drinking age in America in most states is 21, so moving gun buying and ownership to that age does not infringe on the second amendment in my opinion, just like those other restrictions are there to restrict people that are less experienced in life and also known for doing immature things as a group. 21 is good age to start since they are also well out of high school by then too.
In the first place 18 years old is older than the traditional age of manhood was for centuries. (16 is the age at which one was considered part of the militia)
Secondly if you are old enough to vote you are old enough for the entire Bill of Rights.
Thirdly if we let them keep moving the age they won't stop.




2)Bump stocks produce rapid fire in a gimmicky manner, and it throws a bone to the other side.
A bone that will embolden them and will be used to slippery slope accessory prohibition.


3)The mental health data base is the one I have the most issues with actually, but hey we can't have crazy people with guns. Protect the second amendment by all means, but guns needs to be kept away from those members of society that have mental issue that includes rage. This might be controversial I know, the guns aren't killing people, it is the people pulling the triggers and pointing them.
Neither psychiatrists nor the government can be trusted any farther than you can throw them, they will continue to expand the list of people who "can't be trusted with guns" until almost everyone is on it, unless you have seriously harmed a human being you shouldn't be denied the right to defend yourself.


Even then all three of these can be bypassed if anybody wanted to buy this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsSYngXbCc0

And we would still have slingshots too. (until government decides to ban them)

[spudea]

We already have federal law barring dealers from selling handguns to people less than 21 yrs old. So what difference does it make if it includes all firearms too? Would that be overturned as unconstitutional. No.

[Swordsmyth]

We already have federal law barring dealers from selling handguns to people less than 21 yrs old. So what difference does it make if it includes all firearms too? Would that be overturned as unconstitutional. No.

"They already violate our rights so why not let them do it more":rolleyes:

[nikcers]

You will have to scan a federal badge to buy a gun. Federal id's are the only real ones that will scan for this then they can flag you any time they want based on your Facebook status or if your fedbook national patriotism score drops to a certain level.

[Matt Collins]

Word seems to be that Trump may be reversing course on his gun control push from earlier this week due to grassroots pressure.

If that is true, then hopefully FL Gov Rick Scott is feeling the same pressure not to continue with his gun control push or maybe at least will feel exposed without political cover from POTUS.

This might mean that no gun control measures will pass but we can't let down our guard!

[Swordsmyth]

Word seems to be that Trump may be reversing course on his gun control push from earlier this week due to grassroots pressure.

If that is true, then hopefully FL Gov Rick Scott is feeling the same pressure not to continue with his gun control push or maybe at least will feel exposed without political cover from POTUS.

This might mean that no gun control measures will pass but we can't let down our guard!

We must always put on a full court press but I don't think any of the gun control ideas were ever intended to succeed.

[nikcers]

We must always put on a full court press but I don't think any of the gun control ideas were ever intended to succeed.
He's only bombing Syria for 15 minutes. tops.

[Brett85]

If the age to buy guns is going to be raised to 21, then they should also raise the age to vote to 21 and raise the age to serve in the military to 21. It makes absolutely no sense that someone who's old enough to vote and old enough to serve in the military isn't old enough to buy a gun.

[spudea]

"They already violate our rights so why not let them do it more":rolleyes:

Government can and does limit our rights every single day legally. You are free to be upset about it and complain till you are blue in the face like a delusional anarchist. I never heard Ron Paul say repeal all gun laws. So if you think even a utopian libertarian society would have no limits on firearms, I think you are mistaken.

[Raginfridus]

We must always put on a full court press but I don't think any of the gun control ideas were ever intended to succeed.

If his controls were not intended to succeed, full court press is a waste of time.

He's a wet noodle, not a chess master. If what Matt says is true, the national uproar scared his ass into reconsidering. He can't survive a term of expansionism, amnesty, and gun control. Possibly two issues, but all three will surely bring him down.

[Brett85]

Government can and does limit our rights every single day legally. You are free to be upset about it and complain till you are blue in the face like a delusional anarchist. I never heard Ron Paul say repeal all gun laws. So if you think even a utopian libertarian society would have no limits on firearms, I think you are mistaken.

Ron Paul was in favor of repealing all federal gun control laws as he saw them as being a violation of the 10th Amendment. He might be in favor of some state level regulations, such as age requirements.

[nikcers]

If the age to buy guns is going to be raised to 21, then they should also raise the age to vote to 21 and raise the age to serve in the military to 21. It makes absolutely no sense that someone who's old enough to vote and old enough to serve in the military isn't old enough to buy a gun.

How do we send our little kids to go kill other little kids if we raise the minimum age of the joining the military? How do we force the price of college sky high by inflating the costs by making it to where they can charge whatever they want?

[Swordsmyth]

If his controls were not intended to succeed, full court press is a waste of time.

He's a wet noodle, not a chess master. If what Matt says is true, the national uproar scared his ass into reconsidering. He can't survive a term of expansionism, amnesty, and gun control. Possibly two issues, but all three will surely bring him down.

We must always put on a full court press because you and Matt could be right and I could be wrong.

[Swordsmyth]

Government can and does limit our rights every single day legally. You are free to be upset about it and complain till you are blue in the face like a delusional anarchist. I never heard Ron Paul say repeal all gun laws. So if you think even a utopian libertarian society would have no limits on firearms, I think you are mistaken.
The 2ndA is more important than most other rights and it is one of the most abused already, I don't know if we could get rid of all gun laws but we must move in that direction and not any farther away from it.

[Swordsmyth]

He's only bombing Syria for 15 minutes. tops.

I'm not defending Dump's actions, I'm simply predicting the outcome.
I think he is helping the gun industry sell their overstock and the NRA recruit members and neither of those is the president's business plus it feeds the anti-gun culture.

[nikcers]

I'm not defending Dump's actions, I'm simply predicting the outcome.
I think he is helping the gun industry sell their overstock and the NRA recruit members and neither of those is the presidents business plus it feeds the anti-gun culture.
If the Democrats take control of the house and the senate or get enough "bipartisan support" Trump will sign gun control. Trump is for gun control.

[pcosmar]

Word seems to be that Trump may be reversing course on his gun control push from earlier this week due to grassroots pressure.

If that is true, then hopefully FL Gov Rick Scott is feeling the same pressure not to continue with his gun control push or maybe at least will feel exposed without political cover from POTUS.

This might mean that no gun control measures will pass but we can't let down our guard!

If that is the word,, then how about pushing back the other way..

Bump stocks are dumb unsafe toys,, ban them and legalize selector switches across the board.
and while your at it,,remove SBR ,AOW, classifications and legalize them,, and as well as supressors..

too much,,
How about something simple.. "Restoration of Rights" and fixing NCIS to reflect this correction.

I'll be watching patiently while thay add "tools" and funding for more police.

[Raginfridus]

We must always put on a full court press because you and Matt could be right and I could be wrong.

So you believe Trump has had no intentions of pursuing gun control, that hes masterminded another coup against the Congress and MSM?

He's Mr. Magoo, not Napoleon.

[Swordsmyth]

So you believe Trump has had no intentions of pursuing gun control, that hes masterminded another coup against the Congress and MSM?

He's Mr. Magoo, not Napoleon.

I think he is trying to sell guns and NRA memberships.

[Raginfridus]

I think he is trying to sell guns and NRA memberships.

Was Obama?

[nikcers]

Was Obama?
I don't think that they are alike at all. Trump hates Obama so much he became a Republican and starting calling Obama a secret Muslim. Before that he was just plain ole Hillary supporting Trump. Thanks Obama.

[Swordsmyth]

Was Obama?

Possibly but I doubt it, I said you could be right and I could be wrong but I believe there is a difference between O'Bummer and Dump on guns if only because Dump needs pro-gun voters and O'Bummer would never get them to support him.

[acptulsa]

Possibly but I doubt it, I said you could be right and I could be wrong but I believe there is a difference between O'Bummer and Dump on guns if only because Dump needs pro-gun voters and O'Bummer would never get them to support him.

Trump doesn't need anything. Republicans will 4Dchessplain away anything he does. They don't need him to do what they want. They don't even need his excuses -- they all spin it for him.