CA - Illegal immigrants who can get a D/L will now be registered to vote

[Anti Federalist]

California to register illegal aliens to vote – automatically

http://www.wnd.com/2018/01/major-state-to-register-illegal-aliens-to-vote-automatically/

WASHINGTON – California will take the next step in blurring the lines between citizens and non-citizens beginning April Fool’s Day when the state complies with a court order to begin automatically registering to vote all those who are granted driver’s licenses.

The state has long provided driver’s licenses to all who simply claimed, without proof, that they were citizens of in the country legally. There were no checks made or documentation required.

But beginning April 1 every person who gets a California driver’s license will be automatically entitled to vote.

“We are very pleased that Californians will have easier access to voter registration,” said Jeremiah Levine, an attorney with Morrison Foerster who represented the voting-rights groups. “We are especially satisfied that changes will be made before California’s statewide and federal primary elections.”

The state complied with the order under a program dubbed the California New Motor Voter Act. Signed into law in October 2015, the new statute requires the DMV to forward records for all eligible applicants to the Secretary of State’s Office for registration unless those applicants elect not to register to vote.

The League of Women Voters and three other groups sued the state’s Department of Motor Vehicles and Secretary of State’s Office in May 2017, claiming the state burdens would-be voters by making them fill out the same information on two separate forms to register to vote.

According to the lawsuit filed last May, California ranks “a dismal 46th in the nation” in its rate of registered voters. More than 5.5 million eligible voters were unregistered as of February 2017, according to state data.

(Well this will take care of that. - AF)

Other plaintiffs in the lawsuit include the ACCE Institute, California Common Cause and the National Council of La Raza.

[Anti Federalist]

And because some find WND to be untrustworthy:

Californians can register to vote when mailing their driver's license renewal, after state settles lawsuit

http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-updates-californians-can-become-voters-when-1516222595-htmlstory.html

John Myers

Californians who renew their driver's license by mail will soon be able to use that same document to become a voter, after state officials settled a federal voting rights lawsuit.

The lawsuit filed last May alleged that California was required to integrate voter registration into forms the state Department of Motor Vehicles uses to issue a license or update an address. While the agency made changes to its online and paper applications in 2016, it did not include voter registration on license renewals.

“The freedom to vote is the most critical component of our nation’s democracy and difficulty registering is one of the greatest barriers to exercising that freedom,” Michael Risher, a senior staff attorney with the ACLU of Northern California, said Wednesday.

Last spring, a DMV spokesperson denied that California was ever out of compliance with the federal law, the “Motor Voter Act” of 1993.

The settlement requires state officials to use a mailed license renewal form “as an application for voter registration” no later than April 30. State officials must submit a mock-up of the new forms by March 15.

California officials are revamping the operations of the DMV to collect voter registrations as part of a 2015 law that will register all eligible license applicants unless they opt out. That process is scheduled to be up and running in April.

It’s estimated that 5.5 million Californians are eligible to vote but not registered. The lawsuit was filed by a coalition of voting rights groups, including the League of Women Voters of California and the National Council of La Raza.

[Zippyjuan]

While non- citizens can get a CA driver's license, they are different from a standard one and do require ID and documentation.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-undocumented-person-california-drivers-license.html


As an undocumented person wondering whether you are eligible for a California driver’s license without legal status or a Social Security Number (SSN), the important issue is whether you can meet the terms set out AB 60. This law requires you to not only meet the same standards as other prospective drivers do (for example, understanding the traffic laws and having adequate vision), but to:

be able to prove your identity

be a resident of California, and

swear in an affidavit (written statement) that you are ineligible for an SSN and unable to submit satisfactory proof that your presence in the U.S. is authorized by federal law. This affidavit will not be treated as a public record.

You will need to supply proof of your identity, such as a passport, consular card (matricula consular), or electoral card.

You will also need to submit proof of your residence in California, such as rental or lease agreements showing your and the landlord’s signature, mortgage and home utility bills in your name, school, medical, insurance, bank, and employment records, and so on. See the AB 60 Checklist page of the California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) website for more specific guidance on what documents to submit.

If you present documents in a language other than English, you will need to also submit a certified translation or an affidavit of translation into English.



What an Undocumented Person’s California Driver’s License Will Look Like

Your California driver’s license will bear the notation "FEDERAL LIMITS APPLY." That means anyone reading it will have a pretty good idea that you are not a U.S. citizen—but don’t panic. The law also forbids discrimination against people holding an AB 60 license, and California police do not, by and large, turn over undocumented people to federal immigration enforcement agents.

It remains true, however, that nothing stops federal immigration officials from arresting someone who holds an AB 60 license—perhaps after encountering them during a home or workplace raid, placing a hold on them after an arrest and imprisonment by law enforcement, or accessing the DMV files because they are searching for that person.

On the back, it also says "not acceptable for Federal purposes".

https://www.pe.com/wp-content/uploads/migration/nch/nchsf2-xweblicensesfull.jpg

Illegal immigrants won't be able to use them to register to vote. World Nuts Daily is exaggerating that claim (as they usually do- they were big on the "Birther" thing too).

[Anti Federalist]

Critics also point to another state “motor-voter” law, AB 1461, that starting in 2017 will automatically register most licensed California drivers to vote, arguing it could lead to election fraud if non-citizens barred from voting in federal elections become registered. State officials said there are safeguards in the system to prevent undocumented licensees from being registered to vote.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/12/28/dmv-licensed-800000-undocumented-immigrants-under-2-year-old-law/

Anybody care to tell us what those "safeguards are?

Other than "Not for federal purposes"?

[Brian4Liberty]

Critics also point to another state “motor-voter” law, AB 1461, that starting in 2017 will automatically register most licensed California drivers to vote, arguing it could lead to election fraud if non-citizens barred from voting in federal elections become registered. State officials said there are safeguards in the system to prevent undocumented licensees from being registered to vote.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/12/28/dmv-licensed-800000-undocumented-immigrants-under-2-year-old-law/

Anybody care to tell us what those "safeguards are?

Other than "Not for federal purposes"?

Anyone who is foolish enough to either try to register or walk up to vote while openly and loudly proclaiming that they are illegal immigrants will be politely declined, and perhaps instructed to try again later in a more stealth manner.

[Weston White]

Then there should be a requirement for applicants requesting voter registration to submit proof of citizenship (i.e., birth certificate) at the time that they submit their documents for a license, and also a review and verification process; otherwise, that request would just be declined.

Also, maybe subclass the applicant status with different types of licenses, such as color coded licenses with the appropriate classification, "U.S. Citizen" on white background, "U.S. Resident" or "Permanent Resident" on orange background, "Temporary Resident" on green background, "Undeclared Alien" on grey background, etc.

[r3volution 3.0]

It would terrible if illegal immigrants were permitted to vote.

Then politicians like Woodrow Wilson, FDR, or LBJ might be elected.

Why, America might even become a massive welfare-regulatory state in which no one understands, let alone supports, liberty.

These events, which have definitely not already occurred, must be prevented!

Our sacred 1/300,000,000th shares of power must be protected at all costs!

[Swordsmyth]

It would terrible if illegal immigrants were permitted to vote.

Then politicians like Woodrow Wilson, FDR, or LBJ might be elected.

Why, America might even become a massive welfare-regulatory state in which no one understands, let alone supports, liberty.

These events, which have definitely not already occurred, must be prevented!

Our sacred 1/300,000,000th shares of power must be protected at all costs!

Thank you for revealing your support for Illegal Aliens voting, and thereby your support for a Demoncrat monopoly on American politics.

[r3volution 3.0]

Thank you for revealing your support for indifference toward Illegal Aliens voting and thereby your support for recognition of the existing Demoncrat leftist monopoly on American politics.

There you go.

[Anti Federalist]

///

[r3volution 3.0]

It was immigrant groups that propelled the candidacies of all of those men.

So your position is that European immigrants are also culturally defective, or...?

[Anti Federalist]

It would terrible if illegal immigrants were permitted to vote.

Then politicians like Woodrow Wilson, FDR, or LBJ might be elected.

Why, America might even become a massive welfare-regulatory state in which no one understands, let alone supports, liberty.

These events, which have definitely not already occurred, must be prevented!

Our sacred 1/300,000,000th shares of power must be protected at all costs!

Had to double check that...

Immigrants overwhelmingly favored and voted for Wilson, FDR and LBJ.

[Anti Federalist]

So your position is that European immigrants are also culturally defective, or...?

Yes, culturally and politically poisonous to the ideas of limited government, individual rights and non interventionism.

I don't want a bunch of German socialists here, any more than I want a bunch Honduran MS13 here.

[Swordsmyth]

So your position is that European immigrants are also culturally defective, or...?

Most of them are, it gets worse every generation.

[r3volution 3.0]

Yes, culturally and politically poisonous to the ideas of limited government, individual rights and non interventionism.

I don't want a bunch of German socialists here, any more than I want a bunch Honduran MS13 here.

In the 19th century, European immigrants voted better than natives (immigrants voted for the Jeffersonian Democrats, natives for the Hamiltonian Republicans). In the 20th century, after the Democrat Party was taken over by statists, the ethnic trends continued, though their was now little difference between the parties. Wilson's opponent in 1912 was Teddy Roosevelt (an equally socialistic person who also happened to be a psychopath), while FDR's opponent in 1932 was Hoover (who really created the New Deal, Roosevelt just expanded it). Goldwater in 1964 was certainly better than LBJ, but, then again, he lost by a gigantic margin altogether (obviously lacked support among WASPs too). There's no reason to think that European immigrants were especially predisposed to socialism.


Most of them are, it gets worse every generation.

Same as here (though in neither case is it a function of "culture")

[Swordsmyth]

In the 19th century, European immigrants voted better than natives (immigrants voted for the Jeffersonian Democrats, natives for the Hamiltonian Republicans). In the 20th century, after the Democrat Party was taken over by statists, the ethnic trends continued, though their was now little difference between the parties. Wilson's opponent in 1912 was Teddy Roosevelt (an equally socialistic person who also happened to be a psychopath), while FDR's opponent in 1932 was Hoover (who really created the New Deal, Roosevelt just expanded it). Goldwater in 1964 was certainly better than LBJ, but, then again, he lost by a gigantic margin altogether (obviously lacked support among WASPs too). There's no reason to think that European immigrants were especially predisposed to socialism.



Same as here (though in neither case is it a function of "culture")

As socialism advanced in the world it did so faster in Europe than in America, it is now definitely part of their culture and immigrants from Europe (or pretty much anywhere) will make things in America worse.

[r3volution 3.0]

As socialism advanced in the world it did so faster in Europe than in America, it is now definitely part of their culture and immigrants from Europe (or pretty much anywhere) will make things in America worse.

Looks about the same to me

https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/usgs_line.php?title=Total%20Spending&units=p&size=m&legend=&year=1890_2016&sname=US&bar=0&stack=1&col=c&source=a_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_a_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i _i_a_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_a_i_i_i_i_a_i_i_i_i_a_i_a_i_a _i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i _i_i_i_i_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_i_a_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_g&spending0=6.20_6.63_6.35_7.24_8.07_7.52_7.84_7.90_ 7.76_8.29_7.74_7.45_6.83_6.73_7.22_6.83_6.73_6.55_ 7.82_7.76_7.95_8.22_8.02_8.13_9.46_9.72_8.13_9.40_ 21.89_29.03_12.69_14.17_12.54_11.16_11.37_11.33_11 .01_11.63_11.64_11.16_12.93_15.73_20.90_22.07_19.1 7_19.90_19.74_18.51_20.22_20.37_19.84_18.82_27.46_ 45.65_48.95_51.79_34.99_23.10_20.04_22.99_23.43_21 .86_27.17_28.24_28.47_25.98_25.73_26.42_27.95_27.8 9_27.85_29.26_28.01_27.77_27.57_26.07_26.53_28.79_ 29.41_29.03_29.91_30.38_30.28_28.78_29.26_32.60_33 .04_32.03_31.17_30.64_32.85_33.42_35.26_35.28_33.5 0_34.42_34.70_34.13_33.72_33.66_34.84_36.03_35.95_ 35.27_34.37_34.43_33.66_32.80_32.26_31.63_31.56_32 .35_33.75_34.16_33.79_33.66_34.04_34.17_36.39_41.4 0_39.82_39.64_38.01_36.47_35.60_35.82_36.18

https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/ukgs_line.php?title=Total%20Spending&year=1890_2016&sname=&units=p&bar=0&stack=1&size=m&spending0=10.43_10.78_11.68_12.53_12.48_12.51_12.5 4_12.72_12.62_12.67_14.06_17.25_18.34_18.41_16.43_ 17.82_15.18_14.44_14.78_14.73_15.95_14.97_14.78_14 .97_15.61_25.72_50.85_55.70_56.64_51.17_33.22_34.0 5_36.39_30.16_27.21_27.17_29.89_29.56_29.17_28.23_ 29.38_32.06_33.08_31.93_29.21_28.56_28.65_28.62_28 .87_29.14_29.71_54.08_59.80_64.37_65.45_70.34_64.8 1_49.06_39.21_36.00_35.89_38.01_39.07_38.41_36.24_ 34.95_35.10_34.55_35.12_35.21_35.20_37.60_38.31_38 .31_38.35_39.35_40.04_43.43_43.73_42.08_41.77_42.0 3_40.84_40.98_46.40_48.28_46.30_42.09_42.49_42.75_ 44.54_45.29_45.56_43.20_42.59_41.71_40.76_38.40_36 .28_34.25_35.23_36.45_37.97_39.70_39.18_39.42_38.9 3_37.15_36.22_35.81_34.91_35.83_36.18_36.90_37.85_ 39.21_39.40_39.08_40.61_40.94_44.04_44.87_44.12_43 .79_42.46_41.40_40.43&legend=&source=a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_a

Anecdotally, both experienced war socialism during both world wars, and New Deal type socialism in the interwar period.

As for the present, I showed you the various economic freedom indices recently, and the US is actually a bit behind.

[Swordsmyth]

Looks about the same to me

https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/usgs_line.php?title=Total%20Spending&units=p&size=m&legend=&year=1890_2016&sname=US&bar=0&stack=1&col=c&source=a_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_a_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i _i_a_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_a_i_i_i_i_a_i_i_i_i_a_i_a_i_a _i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i _i_i_i_i_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_i_a_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_g&spending0=6.20_6.63_6.35_7.24_8.07_7.52_7.84_7.90_ 7.76_8.29_7.74_7.45_6.83_6.73_7.22_6.83_6.73_6.55_ 7.82_7.76_7.95_8.22_8.02_8.13_9.46_9.72_8.13_9.40_ 21.89_29.03_12.69_14.17_12.54_11.16_11.37_11.33_11 .01_11.63_11.64_11.16_12.93_15.73_20.90_22.07_19.1 7_19.90_19.74_18.51_20.22_20.37_19.84_18.82_27.46_ 45.65_48.95_51.79_34.99_23.10_20.04_22.99_23.43_21 .86_27.17_28.24_28.47_25.98_25.73_26.42_27.95_27.8 9_27.85_29.26_28.01_27.77_27.57_26.07_26.53_28.79_ 29.41_29.03_29.91_30.38_30.28_28.78_29.26_32.60_33 .04_32.03_31.17_30.64_32.85_33.42_35.26_35.28_33.5 0_34.42_34.70_34.13_33.72_33.66_34.84_36.03_35.95_ 35.27_34.37_34.43_33.66_32.80_32.26_31.63_31.56_32 .35_33.75_34.16_33.79_33.66_34.04_34.17_36.39_41.4 0_39.82_39.64_38.01_36.47_35.60_35.82_36.18

https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/ukgs_line.php?title=Total%20Spending&year=1890_2016&sname=&units=p&bar=0&stack=1&size=m&spending0=10.43_10.78_11.68_12.53_12.48_12.51_12.5 4_12.72_12.62_12.67_14.06_17.25_18.34_18.41_16.43_ 17.82_15.18_14.44_14.78_14.73_15.95_14.97_14.78_14 .97_15.61_25.72_50.85_55.70_56.64_51.17_33.22_34.0 5_36.39_30.16_27.21_27.17_29.89_29.56_29.17_28.23_ 29.38_32.06_33.08_31.93_29.21_28.56_28.65_28.62_28 .87_29.14_29.71_54.08_59.80_64.37_65.45_70.34_64.8 1_49.06_39.21_36.00_35.89_38.01_39.07_38.41_36.24_ 34.95_35.10_34.55_35.12_35.21_35.20_37.60_38.31_38 .31_38.35_39.35_40.04_43.43_43.73_42.08_41.77_42.0 3_40.84_40.98_46.40_48.28_46.30_42.09_42.49_42.75_ 44.54_45.29_45.56_43.20_42.59_41.71_40.76_38.40_36 .28_34.25_35.23_36.45_37.97_39.70_39.18_39.42_38.9 3_37.15_36.22_35.81_34.91_35.83_36.18_36.90_37.85_ 39.21_39.40_39.08_40.61_40.94_44.04_44.87_44.12_43 .79_42.46_41.40_40.43&legend=&source=a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_a

Anecdotally, both experienced war socialism during both world wars, and New Deal type socialism in the interwar period.

As for the present, I showed you the various economic freedom indices recently, and the US is actually a bit behind.

Those charts are not "per capita" and I disagree with your biased indices.

[TheCount]

Those charts are not "per capita" and I disagree with your biased indices.

Total UK government spending in 2017 was $1.085 trillion for 65.64 million people. That's $16,530 per capita.
https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/ (https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/&sa=D&ust=1516725012252000&usg=AFQjCNFpybJ8b9IwuG8PwDSseI9mofPVhw)


Total US spending in 2017 was $21,328 per capita.
https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/breakdown_2017USdt_19ds5n (https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/breakdown_2017USdt_19ds5n&sa=D&ust=1516725012251000&usg=AFQjCNGpqEUdOOhhZEZyI728p8IX2VKpyw)

[r3volution 3.0]

Those charts are not "per capita"

They're relative GDP, but here are the per capita charts for your viewing pleasure:

https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/usgs_line.php?title=Total%20Spending&units=d&size=m&legend=&year=1890_2016&sname=US&bar=0&stack=1&col=c&source=a_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_a_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i _i_a_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_a_i_i_i_i_a_i_i_i_i_a_i_a_i_a _i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i _i_i_i_i_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_i_a_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_g&spending0=340_360_356_375_391_398_400_413_441_494_ 464_462_437_434_441_455_458_449_468_489_497_523_52 7_548_581_604_568_631_1579_2083_890_956_880_873_90 3_907_925_972_969_972_1015_1147_1319_1365_1305_146 4_1629_1595_1672_1806_1901_2094_3582_6877_7857_812 1_4786_3084_2749_3093_3381_3352_4262_4561_4494_431 9_4295_4428_4572_4796_4827_5137_5154_5266_5461_543 0_5816_6404_6778_6814_6948_7211_7482_7432_7438_818 0_8642_8671_8811_8842_9352_9672_9916_10286_10379_1 1013_11384_11476_11707_12004_12543_12804_13066_130 10_13028_13241_13271_13348_13543_13732_14086_14437 _15183_15646_15903_16215_16686_16898_17782_19493_1 9033_19107_18586_18004_17855_18297_18641

https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/ukgs_line.php?title=Total%20Spending&year=1890_2016&sname=&units=d&bar=0&stack=1&size=m&spending0=400.74_420.34_442.56_467.48_482.59_495.1 3_512.47_520.70_534.82_551.13_604.03_749.26_801.96 _790.61_707.18_782.60_677.39_650.97_636.24_643.42_ 708.73_681.02_686.50_728.23_779.08_1360.95_2737.23 _2998.14_3125.59_2617.27_1541.87_1393.93_1561.77_1 326.71_1247.74_1284.04_1362.83_1444.70_1432.20_141 9.04_1458.99_1511.06_1553.52_1539.91_1486.30_1499. 86_1569.04_1614.87_1634.55_1714.73_1912.64_3767.51 _4223.07_4604.37_4457.07_4551.79_4073.47_3031.29_2 483.33_2345.54_2403.18_2603.04_2664.43_2706.85_264 5.55_2626.47_2649.37_2638.44_2677.18_2785.27_2918. 64_3174.63_3250.89_3371.65_3539.41_3691.61_3806.24 _4206.62_4388.68_4286.03_4324.98_4417.60_4445.51_4 778.00_5335.78_5512.86_5421.84_5042.61_5250.10_542 0.02_5525.14_5538.84_5678.49_5567.92_5625.38_5697. 45_5779.05_5682.38_5628.25_5424.16_5612.07_5714.65 _5944.84_6336.00_6502.25_6720.95_6810.26_6702.35_6 765.57_6914.02_7019.61_7411.69_7637.80_8018.56_841 8.27_8851.92_9075.07_9259.26_9459.72_11083.93_1154 2.21_11955.13_11820.56_11816.95_11632.96_11617.52_ 11482.98&legend=&source=a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_a


and I disagree with your biased indices.

These ones?

Economic Freedom Index (http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking)
UK = 12th
US = 17th

International Property Rights Index (https://internationalpropertyrightsindex.org/countries)
UK = 13th
US = 14th

Ease of Doing Business Index (http://www.doingbusiness.org/rankings)
US = 6th
UK = 7th

Human Freedom Index (https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index)
UK = 6th
US = 23rd

[seapilot]

While non- citizens can get a CA driver's license, they are different from a standard one and do require ID and documentation.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/can-undocumented-person-california-drivers-license.html





On the back, it also says "not acceptable for Federal purposes".

https://www.pe.com/wp-content/uploads/migration/nch/nchsf2-xweblicensesfull.jpg

Illegal immigrants won't be able to use them to register to vote. World Nuts Daily is exaggerating that claim (as they usually do- they were big on the "Birther" thing too).

Obviously trust government to do the right thing. Posting on a libertarian site believing that the government follows the rule of law is laughable. State of California will eventually ignore or delete that Federal part and illegals will be allowed to vote. That is how socialists stay in power.

Here is a good example of how they do this. People were very concerned with Government abuse with Social Security numbers given to everyone. No worries the government will never use it for identity purposes only for Social Security purposes. Today people have to worry about identity theft and almost all govt institutions require a SS number FOR IDENTIFICATION PURPOSES!

ORIGINAL SS CARD IN BOLD RED on the front NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION.

https://keleger.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/clip_image001.jpg

Today's SS cards issued it is mysteriously absent.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7652/26507497623_1fbf01a43b.jpg

[Danke]

Obviously trust government to do the right thing. Posting on a libertarian site believing that the government follows the rule of law is laughable. State of California will eventually ignore or delete that Federal part and illegals will be allowed to vote. That is how socialists stay in power.Here is a good example of how they do this. People were very concerned with Government abuse with Social Security numbers given to everyone. No worries the government will never use it for identity purposes only for Social Security purposes. Today people have to worry about identity theft and almost all govt institutions require a SS number FOR IDENTIFICATION PURPOSES!ORIGINAL SS CARD IN BOLD RED on the front NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION.https://keleger.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/clip_image001.jpgToday's SS cards issued it is mysteriously absent.https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7652/26507497623_1fbf01a43b.jpghttp://www.ronpaulforums.com/customavatars/thumbs/avatar17293_6.gif

[Swordsmyth]

Total UK government spending in 2017 was $1.085 trillion for 65.64 million people. That's $16,530 per capita.
https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/ (https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/&sa=D&ust=1516725012252000&usg=AFQjCNFpybJ8b9IwuG8PwDSseI9mofPVhw)


Total US spending in 2017 was $21,328 per capita.
https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/breakdown_2017USdt_19ds5n (https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/breakdown_2017USdt_19ds5n&sa=D&ust=1516725012251000&usg=AFQjCNGpqEUdOOhhZEZyI728p8IX2VKpyw)

The UK is poorer and doesn't have the luxury of being the world reserve currency but socialism is measured better by government control of the economy than by government spending.

[Swordsmyth]

They're relative GDP, but here are the per capita charts for your viewing pleasure:

https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/usgs_line.php?title=Total%20Spending&units=d&size=m&legend=&year=1890_2016&sname=US&bar=0&stack=1&col=c&source=a_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_a_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i _i_a_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_a_i_i_i_i_a_i_i_i_i_a_i_a_i_a _i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i_i _i_i_i_i_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_i_a_i_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_g&spending0=340_360_356_375_391_398_400_413_441_494_ 464_462_437_434_441_455_458_449_468_489_497_523_52 7_548_581_604_568_631_1579_2083_890_956_880_873_90 3_907_925_972_969_972_1015_1147_1319_1365_1305_146 4_1629_1595_1672_1806_1901_2094_3582_6877_7857_812 1_4786_3084_2749_3093_3381_3352_4262_4561_4494_431 9_4295_4428_4572_4796_4827_5137_5154_5266_5461_543 0_5816_6404_6778_6814_6948_7211_7482_7432_7438_818 0_8642_8671_8811_8842_9352_9672_9916_10286_10379_1 1013_11384_11476_11707_12004_12543_12804_13066_130 10_13028_13241_13271_13348_13543_13732_14086_14437 _15183_15646_15903_16215_16686_16898_17782_19493_1 9033_19107_18586_18004_17855_18297_18641

https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/ukgs_line.php?title=Total%20Spending&year=1890_2016&sname=&units=d&bar=0&stack=1&size=m&spending0=400.74_420.34_442.56_467.48_482.59_495.1 3_512.47_520.70_534.82_551.13_604.03_749.26_801.96 _790.61_707.18_782.60_677.39_650.97_636.24_643.42_ 708.73_681.02_686.50_728.23_779.08_1360.95_2737.23 _2998.14_3125.59_2617.27_1541.87_1393.93_1561.77_1 326.71_1247.74_1284.04_1362.83_1444.70_1432.20_141 9.04_1458.99_1511.06_1553.52_1539.91_1486.30_1499. 86_1569.04_1614.87_1634.55_1714.73_1912.64_3767.51 _4223.07_4604.37_4457.07_4551.79_4073.47_3031.29_2 483.33_2345.54_2403.18_2603.04_2664.43_2706.85_264 5.55_2626.47_2649.37_2638.44_2677.18_2785.27_2918. 64_3174.63_3250.89_3371.65_3539.41_3691.61_3806.24 _4206.62_4388.68_4286.03_4324.98_4417.60_4445.51_4 778.00_5335.78_5512.86_5421.84_5042.61_5250.10_542 0.02_5525.14_5538.84_5678.49_5567.92_5625.38_5697. 45_5779.05_5682.38_5628.25_5424.16_5612.07_5714.65 _5944.84_6336.00_6502.25_6720.95_6810.26_6702.35_6 765.57_6914.02_7019.61_7411.69_7637.80_8018.56_841 8.27_8851.92_9075.07_9259.26_9459.72_11083.93_1154 2.21_11955.13_11820.56_11816.95_11632.96_11617.52_ 11482.98&legend=&source=a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a_a _a_a_a_a_a

In any case spending is not the best measure of socialism, government control of the economy is.




These ones?

Economic Freedom Index (http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking)
UK = 12th
US = 17th

International Property Rights Index (https://internationalpropertyrightsindex.org/countries)
UK = 13th
US = 14th

Ease of Doing Business Index (http://www.doingbusiness.org/rankings)
US = 6th
UK = 7th

Human Freedom Index (https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index)
UK = 6th
US = 23rd

Yes, those are laughable, especially the CATO "human freedom" index.

[Dangergirl]

@ r3volution 3.0. When you convert pounds to dollars the difference in cost is roughly what The Count posted. About $4-5000 more in the US per capita.

But I don't know what historical European immigration has to do with illegals voting here. They've estimated that immigrants from 111 countries are crossing the border. There's probably a lot more diversity going on then we can measure or care to admit.

[oyarde]

So your position is that European immigrants are also culturally defective, or...?

Yeah , I can live with that .

[TheCount]

The UK is poorer and doesn't have the luxury of being the world reserve currency but socialism is measured better by government control of the economy than by government spending.

Then why'd you mention per capita? :rolleyes:

[Danke]

Obviously trust government to do the right thing. Posting on a libertarian site believing that the government follows the rule of law is laughable. State of California will eventually ignore or delete that Federal part and illegals will be allowed to vote. That is how socialists stay in power.

Here is a good example of how they do this. People were very concerned with Government abuse with Social Security numbers given to everyone. No worries the government will never use it for identity purposes only for Social Security purposes. Today people have to worry about identity theft and almost all govt institutions require a SS number FOR IDENTIFICATION PURPOSES!

ORIGINAL SS CARD IN BOLD RED on the front NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION.

https://keleger.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/clip_image001.jpg

Today's SS cards issued it is mysteriously absent.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7652/26507497623_1fbf01a43b.jpg


Uber driver in US illegally charged with 4 California rapes

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mexican-uber-driver-us-illegally-200110745.html#
A Mexican man living in the U.S. illegally used his job as an Uber driver to target intoxicated young women and was charged Monday with raping, assaulting and robbing four victims, California prosecutors said.
Alfonso Alarcon-Nunez drove women to their homes, assaulted them, and stole property including cellphones, computers and jewelry, officials said. He collected his fare payments through the smartphone app Venmo to disguise his identity and his Uber records.
DNA evidence helped lead detectives to Alarcon-Nunez, who was arrested at his Santa Maria home last week, San Luis Obispo County District Attorney Dan Dow said at a news conference.
The alleged crimes occurred over four weeks starting in mid-December in San Luis Obispo, a city of about 45,000 that is home to California Polytechnic State University. Alarcon-Nunez's victims are between 19 and 22 and three were drunk at the time of the crimes, Dow said.
Alarcon-Nunez, 39, faces 10 criminal charges, including rape of an intoxicated victim and first-degree burglary. He pleaded not guilty to all charges at his arraignment and remained held in the San Luis Obispo County Jail with bail set at $1.47 million. His next court date was set for Jan. 29.
Detectives are looking for potential witnesses and trying to determine if there are additional victims in San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara counties northwest of Los Angeles, where the Alarcon-Nunez had been driving for Uber since September, Dow said.
Alarcon-Nunez has also gone by the name "Bruno Diaz" and his Venmo username was "Brush Bat," prosecutors said.
Officials said Alarcon-Nunez was not always driving for Uber when he picked up women. Sometimes, drivers in cars parked outside bars or restaurants "jump in front of the actual Uber driver and they will take someone unsuspecting to their home. And that's a way of putting someone at risk, and in this case that's exactly what's alleged to have happened," Dow said.
He said the alleged crimes show that the company should improve its driver screening process, Dow said. Dow urged Uber users to make sure they are getting in the car of the correct driver by verifying the license plate and other information provided to clients.
"What police have reported is absolutely horrifying, and something no person should ever have to experience. We have been working with law enforcement to provide them with information for their investigation, and the driver has been permanently removed from the app," Uber spokesman Andrew Hasbun said in a statement Monday.
Alarcon-Nunez returned to the U.S. illegally after a voluntary deportation from New Mexico in 2005, officials said. Dow did not have details about why he was deported or whether he has a criminal record in the U.S.
California issues driver's licenses to immigrants in the country illegally and Alarcon-Nunez had a valid license since 2015.
Alarcon-Nunez's immigration status will not have a bearing on the prosecution, Dow said. He could face life in prison if convicted on all charges.
___