Tennessee Bill Would Create Second Amendment Sanctuary

[Swordsmyth]

A bill pending in the Tennessee State House of Representatives would forbid funds from the state being used to enforce federal restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms.
Proposed as an amendment to current state law, the legislation (House Bill 1407 (https://legiscan.com/TN/bill/HB1407/2017)) “prohibits the expenditure of state or local funds or employees to implement, regulate, or enforce any federal law or executive order regulating the ownership or possession of firearms or firearm ammunition regardless of whether the expenditure of funds or use of employees would violate a state law or the state constitution.”
That’s the sort of next-level legislative levee against federal infringement on the Second Amendment that we need.

If state lawmakers can be counted on to approve this amendment, then laws passed over the past couple of years would go into effect and essentially turn Tennessee into a sanctuary for gun owners, users, and manufacturers.
Particularly praiseworthy is the fact that the proposed statute similarly prohibits state agents, funds, and other resources from contributing to the carrying out of any aspect of an international treaty or agreement that would impede the right of Americans to keep and bear arms, as protected by the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

More at: https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/28036-tennessee-bill-would-create-second-amendment-sanctuary

[TheCount]

Will DOJ arrest Tennessee lawmakers if this passes?

[Swordsmyth]

Will DOJ arrest Tennessee lawmakers if this passes?

I don't know but the 2nd Amendment is a GOD given and Constitutionally protected right while immigration is not so the legal positions of the parties involved will be quite different if they do.

[TheCount]

I don't know but the 2nd Amendment is a GOD given and Constitutionally protected right while immigration is not so the legal positions of the parties involved will be quite different if they do.

Either local governments can refuse to participate in voluntary Federal programs or not. You can't have it both ways.

This is the creeping statism that you endorse.

[pcosmar]

Either local governments can refuse to participate in voluntary Federal programs

We can dream of such refusal.
But guns in the hands of the people can enforce that decision, should it ever happen.

oh yeah,, it did,,
At the Bundy Ranch.

[Swordsmyth]

Either local governments can refuse to participate in voluntary Federal programs or not. You can't have it both ways.

This is the creeping statism that you endorse.

The feds are talking about human trafficking charges against the sanctuary jurisdiction officials that is entirely different than the immigration law that is voluntary, I haven't endorsed this approach since I haven't looked into the applicable laws and we already discussed the reason California can't be a sanctuary state per it's own constitution in another thread.

No matter what you think about the illegal alien situation this is absolutely on firmer ground since it is protecting a GOD given Constitutionally protected right.

[TheCount]

The feds are talking about human trafficking charges

Human trafficking requires a victim.




No matter what you think about the illegal alien situation this is absolutely on firmer ground since it is protecting a GOD given Constitutionally protected right.

Doesn't matter. At issue is the ability of the local government to refuse to participate in a voluntary Federal program. Whether it's about guns, 64 oz Big Gulps, or speed limits is completely irrelevant.

[Swordsmyth]

Human trafficking requires a victim.

Are you claiming there aren't any victims of human trafficking in the illegal alien industry?



Doesn't matter. At issue is the ability of the local government to refuse to participate in a voluntary Federal program. Whether it's about guns, 64 oz Big Gulps, or speed limits is completely irrelevant.
If a federal law is within the federal government's Constitutional powers and not in violation of the citizens' rights the locals have a duty to cooperate with it's enforcement.

[fedupinmo]

Will DOJ arrest Tennessee lawmakers if this passes?

There is no Constitutional mandate for the regulation of arms, like there is to protect the states from invasion.
I lol when Californians trot out the mantra that what is happening there will be coming here, and then you see state moves to counter oppression instead of aid it. Good luck, Tennessee!

[TheCount]

Are you claiming there aren't any victims of human trafficking in the illegal alien industry?

Sure; start a line of the victims of the sanctuary cities right next to your line of illegal alien fraudulent voters.



If a federal law is within the federal government's Constitutional powers and not in violation of the citizens' rights the locals have a duty to cooperate with it's enforcement.

That's contrary to what you're saying in this thread. Courts have ruled that gun control is within the federal government's powers.

[pcosmar]

Courts have ruled that gun control is within the federal government's powers.
Courts were wrong.
if people disagree.. the Court is Out-Gunned,, as the Founders intended.

[Swordsmyth]

That's contrary to what you're saying in this thread. Courts have ruled that gun control is within the federal government's powers.

Courts have ruled an awful lot of garbage, does Dred Scott ring a bell?

[A Son of Liberty]

The feds are talking about human trafficking charges against the sanctuary jurisdiction officials that is entirely different than the immigration law that is voluntary, I haven't endorsed this approach since I haven't looked into the applicable laws and we already discussed the reason California can't be a sanctuary state per it's own constitution in another thread.

No matter what you think about the illegal alien situation this is absolutely on firmer ground since it is protecting a GOD given Constitutionally protected right.

I don't disagree with you generally speaking, but you have to understand, as someone who cites God as the bestower of rights, that freedom of movement is also a GOD given right...

[Swordsmyth]

I don't disagree with you generally speaking, but you have to understand, as someone who cites God as the bestower of rights, that freedom of movement is also a GOD given right...

But not to enter another group's territory in violation of their rules.

[A Son of Liberty]

But not to enter another group's territory in violation of their rules.

"Group"?

[Swordsmyth]

"Group"?

Yup, they exist.

[A Son of Liberty]

Yup, they exist.

How exactly does 'consent' play into this notion of the 'group'?

[Swordsmyth]

How exactly does 'consent' play into this notion of the 'group'?

It varies, like it or not you were born without your consent into a world where those who lived before you had to set up governments to administer justice and protect people from foreign conquest, if you can arrange things so that people are born in discrete batches as the last generation dies let me know.

[timosman]

How exactly does 'consent' play into this notion of the 'group'?

I am sorry you were not born into wealth.:cool:

[A Son of Liberty]

It varies, like it or not you were born without your consent into a world where those who lived before you had to set up governments to administer justice and protect people from foreign conquest, if you can arrange things so that people are born in discrete batches as the last generation dies let me know.

Adorable. As usual, the "argument" goes, "well, you were born without consent, so... ya know... anything can be done without your consent".

You're in the WRONG PLACE. Here at RPF, we believe in the sovereignty of the individual... I understand that's a turn-of-phrase that literally send SHIVERS down your spine, but it happens to be the reality of the world we live in, and you don't get to up-end it just so you can rub your own particular happy-spot.

Do you own your life or not, Swordsmyth? The whole gawd-damned thing teeters on your answer to that question.

[A Son of Liberty]

I am sorry you were not born into wealth.:cool:

You're remarkably uninteresting.

[timosman]

You're remarkably uninteresting.

Likewise.

[Swordsmyth]

Adorable. As usual, the "argument" goes, "well, you were born without consent, so... ya know... anything can be done without your consent".

You're in the WRONG PLACE. Here at RPF, we believe in the sovereignty of the individual... I understand that's a turn-of-phrase that literally send SHIVERS down your spine, but it happens to be the reality of the world we live in, and you don't get to up-end it just so you can rub your own particular happy-spot.

Do you own your life or not, Swordsmyth? The whole gawd-damned thing teeters on your answer to that question.

GOD owns my life and he set up how people are born and is in charge of where and to whom they are born, he also established governments to administer justice and protect their people from outside enemies.

[A Son of Liberty]

GOD owns my life and he set up how people are born and is in charge of where and to whom they are born, he also established governments to administer justice and protect their people from outside enemies.

Oh, God established governments? Could you cite where exactly God established governments?

[A Son of Liberty]

Likewise.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Jz1TjCphXE

[timosman]

I don't disagree with you generally speaking, but you have to understand, as someone who cites God as the bestower of rights, that freedom of movement is also a GOD given right...

https://www.indymedia.org.uk/images/2007/05/369181.jpg

[Swordsmyth]

Oh, God established governments? Could you cite where exactly God established governments?

GOD had Moses set judges over Israel:

Exodus 22:9 “For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges; and whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbour.”

King James Version (KJV)



Deuteronomy 19:17 “Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;”

King James Version (KJV)



Deuteronomy 25:1 “If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.”

King James Version (KJV)



Acts 13:20 “And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet.”

King James Version (KJV)



Exodus
Chapter 22
9 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Exodus-22-9/)For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges; and whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbour.




Deuteronomy
Chapter 18 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Deuteronomy-1-8/)Behold, I have set the land before you: go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give unto them and to their seed after them.
9 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Deuteronomy-1-9/)And I spake unto you at that time, saying, I am not able to bear you myself alone:
10 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Deuteronomy-1-10/)The LORD your God hath multiplied you, and, behold, ye are this day as the stars of heaven for multitude.
11 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Deuteronomy-1-11/)(The LORD God of your fathers make you a thousand times so many more as ye are, and bless you, as he hath promised you!)
12 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Deuteronomy-1-12/)How can I myself alone bear your cumbrance, and your burden, and your strife?
13 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Deuteronomy-1-13/)Take you wise men, and understanding, and known among your tribes, and I will make them rulers over you.
14 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Deuteronomy-1-14/)And ye answered me, and said, The thing which thou hast spoken is good for us to do.
15 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Deuteronomy-1-15/)So I took the chief of your tribes, wise men, and known, and made them heads over you, captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, and captains over fifties, and captains over tens, and officers among your tribes.
16 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Deuteronomy-1-16/)And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.
17 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Deuteronomy-1-17/)Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.

[A Son of Liberty]

https://www.indymedia.org.uk/images/2007/05/369181.jpg

LOL little else is expected of you! LOL

[timosman]

LOL little else is expected of you! LOL

Yawn..... are we done yet?

[A Son of Liberty]

GOD had Moses set judges over Israel:

Exodus 22:9 “For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges; and whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbour.”

King James Version (KJV)



Deuteronomy 19:17 “Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;”

King James Version (KJV)



Deuteronomy 25:1 “If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.”

King James Version (KJV)



Acts 13:20 “And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet.”

King James Version (KJV)



Exodus
Chapter 22
9 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Exodus-22-9/)For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges; and whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbour.




Deuteronomy
Chapter 18 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Deuteronomy-1-8/)Behold, I have set the land before you: go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give unto them and to their seed after them.
9 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Deuteronomy-1-9/)And I spake unto you at that time, saying, I am not able to bear you myself alone:
10 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Deuteronomy-1-10/)The LORD your God hath multiplied you, and, behold, ye are this day as the stars of heaven for multitude.
11 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Deuteronomy-1-11/)(The LORD God of your fathers make you a thousand times so many more as ye are, and bless you, as he hath promised you!)
12 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Deuteronomy-1-12/)How can I myself alone bear your cumbrance, and your burden, and your strife?
13 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Deuteronomy-1-13/)Take you wise men, and understanding, and known among your tribes, and I will make them rulers over you.
14 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Deuteronomy-1-14/)And ye answered me, and said, The thing which thou hast spoken is good for us to do.
15 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Deuteronomy-1-15/)So I took the chief of your tribes, wise men, and known, and made them heads over you, captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, and captains over fifties, and captains over tens, and officers among your tribes.
16 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Deuteronomy-1-16/)And I charged your judges at that time, saying, Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him.
17 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Deuteronomy-1-17/)Ye shall not respect persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it.

These verses are where you find God's sanction for the State? Really?

You seem to know the Bible decently well... is it necessary for me to cite where God sanctions the individual? Or are you some kind of Christian Socialist? :lol:

[A Son of Liberty]

Yawn..... are we done yet?

We were done before you even started. You're literally the least interesting "member" here; and that word is in quotes because you're not a Ron-Paulian at all... but of course you know that. You're just a Trump-troll. And you're boring. And wrong, most of the time. So frequently, in fact, that you're posts are worth ignoring.

[Swordsmyth]

These verses are where you find God's sanction for the State? Really?

You seem to know the Bible decently well... is it necessary for me to cite where God sanctions the individual? Or are you some kind of Christian Socialist? :lol:

GOD sanctions both, they each have their place.

[Swordsmyth]

Time to get this thread back on track:

Tennessee Bill Would Create Second Amendment Sanctuary
A bill pending in the Tennessee State House of Representatives would forbid funds from the state being used to enforce federal restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms.
Proposed as an amendment to current state law, the legislation (House Bill 1407 (https://legiscan.com/TN/bill/HB1407/2017)) “prohibits the expenditure of state or local funds or employees to implement, regulate, or enforce any federal law or executive order regulating the ownership or possession of firearms or firearm ammunition regardless of whether the expenditure of funds or use of employees would violate a state law or the state constitution.”
That’s the sort of next-level legislative levee against federal infringement on the Second Amendment that we need.

If state lawmakers can be counted on to approve this amendment, then laws passed over the past couple of years would go into effect and essentially turn Tennessee into a sanctuary for gun owners, users, and manufacturers.
Particularly praiseworthy is the fact that the proposed statute similarly prohibits state agents, funds, and other resources from contributing to the carrying out of any aspect of an international treaty or agreement that would impede the right of Americans to keep and bear arms, as protected by the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

More at: https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnew...ment-sanctuary (https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/28036-tennessee-bill-would-create-second-amendment-sanctuary)

[timosman]

We were done before you even started. You're literally the least interesting "member" here; and that word is in quotes because you're not a Ron-Paulian at all... but of course you know that. You're just a Trump-troll. And you're boring. And wrong, most of the time. So frequently, in fact, that you're posts are worth ignoring.

Now you really hurt me. :cool:

[A Son of Liberty]

Now you really hurt me. :cool:

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[A Son of Liberty]

GOD sanctions both, they each have their place.

Uh huh...

[CCTelander]

We were done before you even started. You're literally the least interesting "member" here; and that word is in quotes because you're not a Ron-Paulian at all... but of course you know that. You're just a Trump-troll. And you're boring. And wrong, most of the time. So frequently, in fact, that you're posts are worth ignoring.


Way too many of that sort around here nowadays. The inevitable result of focusing on winning elections over advancing principles.

[TheCount]

Courts have ruled an awful lot of garbage, does Dred Scott ring a bell?

Cool; so do we all just have to come to you to find out which court rulings are garbage and which are correct?

If "yeah well but those decisions that I don't like is garbage and so everyone should ignore them" is an argument, that applies equally well to court rulings on immigration as it does on gun control.

[Swordsmyth]

Cool; so do we all just have to come to you to find out which court rulings are garbage and which are correct?

If "yeah well but those decisions that I don't like is garbage and so everyone should ignore them" is an argument, that applies equally well to court rulings on immigration as it does on gun control.

You could try reading the Constitution and then you would see that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed while invasion/immigration is not listed as a right at all.

[William Tell]

Courts have ruled an awful lot of garbage, does Dred Scott ring a bell?

That example always seems to shut up the leftists here.

[Swordsmyth]

That example always seems to shut up the leftists here.

But not The Count, he has no shame, after all vampires don't have to look at themselves in the mirror when they shave.



Cool; so do we all just have to come to you to find out which court rulings are garbage and which are correct?

If "yeah well but those decisions that I don't like is garbage and so everyone should ignore them" is an argument, that applies equally well to court rulings on immigration as it does on gun control.

[pcosmar]

Cool;

Even cooler,,
http://www.constitution.org/uslaw/defunlaw.htm
As for grounds for arrest: “The carrying of arms in a quiet, peaceable, and orderly manner, concealed on or about the person, is not a breach of the peace. Nor does such an act of itself, lead to a breach of the peace.” (Wharton’s Criminal and Civil Procedure, 12th Ed., Vol.2: Judy v. Lashley, 5 W. Va. 628, 41 S.E. 197).



“An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery.” (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260).

“Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer's life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306.

How can one properly resist an illegal arrest if he is handicapped by laws that favor the attacker?

[TheCount]

You could try reading the Constitution and then you would see that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed while invasion/immigration is not listed as a right at all.

We've been over that before but you just conveniently forget those threads every time.


Also, once again, the whole sanctuary city thing has nothing to do with the legality of illegal immigrants and everything to do with the legality of local government refusing to cooperate with voluntary government programs.

[Matt Collins]

This will go nowhere unfortunately. The Senate Sponsor, Mae Beavers, is now running for Governor and no longer in the state Senate. If you look at the legislative page for the bill you'll discover it was taken off notice meaning it is now dead in the house.

Senator Beavers did pass the TN Firearms Freedom Act a few years ago. In 2013 she tried to add some enforcement language (teeth) to the bill but sadly the Republican establishment killed it. I can provide video of this 3-ringed circus as it was one of the most ridiculous hearings they have seen in TN for some time.

Montana has a bill that was passed in to law too if I remember.

[Anti Federalist]

Good.

The more the states push back against the feds, for whatever reason, the better.

Brings us one day closer to secession and separation.

[pcosmar]

Montana has a bill that was passed in to law too if I remember.

I thought so too,
But reading the Montana Laws, they still recognize federally prohibited persons.

:(

[Swordsmyth]

https://twitter.com/NewsBreaking/status/1129534517163597824

1129534517163597824