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Jorge
07-01-2007, 10:15 PM
I found FOAVC.org (http://www.foavc.org/) site through reading Atlantic Free Press (http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/) article Americans Unready to Revolt, Despite Revolting Conditions (http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/content/view/1798/81/). No wonder that most of Republicrats want American people to believe that the U.S. Constitution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution) is not to be taken literally...

Article V of the Constitution of the United States provides that "on the application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, [Congress] shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments..." The Founding Fathers of our nation recognized the importance of providing this means by which the citizens of our country could initiate amendments to change and/or clarify the Constitution, the fundamental document which they intended to be not only the blueprint for our federal system but also "the supreme Law of the Land".

The Founding Fathers described the obligation of Congress to call an Article V Convention as "peremptory". Alexander Hamilton, author of the final language in Article V wrote in Federalist 85:

"In opposition to the probability of subsequent amendments, it has been urged that the persons delegated to the administration of the national government will always be disinclined to yield up any portion of the authority of which they were once possessed. For my own part I acknowledge a thorough conviction that any amendments which may, upon mature consideration, be thought useful, will be applicable to the organization of the government, not to the mass of its powers; and on this account alone, I think there is no weight in the observation just stated. I also think there is little weight in it on another account. The intrinsic difficulty of governing THIRTEEN STATES at any rate, independent of calculations upon an ordinary degree of public spirit and integrity, will, in my opinion constantly impose on the national rulers the necessity of a spirit of accommodation to the reasonable expectations of their constituents. But there is yet a further consideration, which proves beyond the possibility of a doubt, that the observation is futile. It is this that the national rulers, whenever nine States concur, will have no option upon the subject. By the fifth article of the plan, the Congress will be obliged "on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the States [which at present amount to nine], to call a convention for proposing amendments, which shall be valid, to all intents and purposes, as part of the Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the States, or by conventions in three fourths thereof." The words of this article are peremptory. The Congress "shall call a convention." Nothing in this particular is left to the discretion of that body. And of consequence, all the declamation about the disinclination to a change vanishes in air. Nor however difficult it may be supposed to unite two thirds or three fourths of the State legislatures, in amendments which may affect local interests, can there be any room to apprehend any such difficulty in a union on points which are merely relative to the general liberty or security of the people. We may safely rely on the disposition of the State legislatures to erect barriers against the encroachments of the national authority.

If the foregoing argument is a fallacy, certain it is that I am myself deceived by it, for it is, in my conception, one of those rare instances in which a political truth can be brought to the test of a mathematical demonstration. Those who see the matter in the same light with me, however zealous they may be for amendments, must agree in the propriety of a previous adoption, as the most direct road to their own object."

Despite the fact that ALL 50 state legislatures have submitted 567 applications (far in excess of the two-thirds requirement) requesting a convention call, Congress has ignored its constitutionally mandated duty. Some Americans fear a convention. This fear, based upon half-truths, myths and outright false hoods, helps to justify the congressional veto of direct constitutional text and denies the people their right to amend the Constitution without government interference or oversight. They say that such a gathering could become a "runaway" convention -- re-writing or over-turning parts or all of the Constitution. They ignore the fact that the Framers also provided a safety mechanism to prevent such a fiasco: all amendments proposed by the convention must be ratified by three-quarters of the states before they become effective. There is no danger that radicals on either side of the political spectrum could bring about such an outcome.

angelatc
07-01-2007, 10:31 PM
They should have written it so that the states could have a convention that Congress didn't call.

Christopher A. Brown
02-24-2014, 12:36 PM
Wow, old thread. Maybe I should start a new one. Any way, I'd like to clarify something fundamentally logical.

If the states created the constitution, the states can amend it without congress callin a convention. The language of Article V actually can be interpreted to show this, and should be IF the constitution is threatened by the federal government it is designed to control and restrain.

Excerpt from Article V:

--"shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress"--


With this and the logic above, "may be proposed by the Congress" meaning 3/4 of the states may simply convene conventions, then propose and ratify as long as all amendments have constitutional intent.

Therein is the problem. The people of all of the states have no idea of what constitutional intent is and need authority to tell them.

That is not a lightly made statement. I've tested it. It is true in our current political environment. We only have followers, and they only recognize leaders that make media publicity. If those leaders know, they are afraid to say so.

American can't think for themselves in decisive unconditional, socially valid manners.

GunnyFreedom
02-24-2014, 01:07 PM
I'm not nearly as worried about an Article V convention as many of us. I already know that they have to be approved by 2/3 of the States, and in many cases, by the States who sent them. I don't think Article V alone is any answer - if they ignore it now why would they obey it with a little extra text? You have to use non-pursuance to enforce the text, and then amend the text to formalize a permanent enforcement mechanism so we never have to go through this again. I think the two go hand in hand.