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Zippyjuan
12-01-2017, 02:51 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/01/politics/senate-tax-bill-vote-uncertainty/index.html


No word on how the "Trigger" problem where Corker wanted automatic tax increases if deficits were getting too big but one concessions is to protect DACA workers. Flake- one of the "deficit hawks" now says he supports it.


Republican Senate efforts to secure support for an overhaul of the nation's tax system appeared successful Friday, as at least 50 GOP members -- enough to advance the proposal -- have said they'll support passing the bill.

Arizona Sen. Jeff Flake, a key hold-out, announced just after noon that he would back the plan. Republicans can pass the legislation with 50 members and a tie-breaking vote from Vice President Mike Pence. This leaves Republican leaders two undecideds -- Republican Sens. Susan Collins of Maine and Bob Corker of Tennessee -- assuming no further changes upset senators who are already backing the bill.

"We have the votes," Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said walking to the Senate floor following a conference meeting Friday.

in a public statement announcing his support, Flake said he was given promises from Senate GOP leadership and the Trump administration for a "growth-oriented legislative solution" to protect recipients of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program.

Collins appeared very likely to support the bill send a pair of tweets Friday outlining measures that had been included that she proposed.

axiomata
12-01-2017, 03:03 PM
No tax hike trigger, good.

But the concern about increasing deficit is valid.

Why not include a spending cut trigger. Or include spending cuts in it of a magnitude equal to the easy static analysis of the level of tax cuts. Then, earmark the uncertain but likely increase in tax receipts to offset some of the up front budget cuts. Hack, you might even get a few democrats to crossover if their pet pork gets first dibs on some of the dynamic tax revenue.

Zippyjuan
12-01-2017, 03:07 PM
No trigger. They feel they don't need Corker's vote now.

enhanced_deficit
12-01-2017, 03:10 PM
Let's wait till they actually pass it and not just keep talking about it.


Related

Trump says Republicans 'have the votes' to repeal Obamacare

abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-republicans-votes-repeal-obamacare/story?id=50135212
Sep 27, 2017 - In two separate appearances today, President Trump claimed Republicans have the votes to repeal and replace Obamacare - despite a vote on the bill being derailed this week after enough senators publicly voiced their opposition.

Zippyjuan
12-01-2017, 04:44 PM
Should it pass, they still need to reconcile with the House bill- unless the House simply decides to accept and approve the Senate one. Then they can start painting the town red- with red ink. Adding another $1 trillion in estimated debt in the next ten years should bring the total debt to over $32 trillion by then.

The bill is nearing 500 pages and nobody has read all of it. They haven't released all of the changes they agreed to overnight. "You can learn what is in it after you vote on it." No text of the bill is currently available.

Zippyjuan
12-01-2017, 09:21 PM
Haven't voted yet. Some still trying to figure out what has been changed. Parts are handwritten and illegible.

http://static3.businessinsider.com/image/5a21ee6ef914c31f008b789c-906/screen%20shot%202017-12-01%20at%2070525%20pm.png

Swordsmyth
12-02-2017, 01:30 AM
Senate passes huge tax cuts after last-minute changes; conference with House nexthttps://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/12/01/senate-passes-huge-tax-cuts-after-last-minute-changes-conference-house-next/914701001/

Brian4Liberty
12-02-2017, 01:54 AM
No tax hike trigger, good.

But the concern about increasing deficit is valid.

Why not include a spending cut trigger.

Exactly. I would support that "trigger". Corker is a useful idiot.

nikcers
12-02-2017, 02:22 AM
Corker learned that a trigger he demanded in the tax bill that would automatically increase taxes if the tax legislation didn't generate the growth that Republicans anticipated, wouldn't pass Senate rules and couldn't be included.
You can't tax cut and spending cut in the same bill? Spending cuts should be next!

William Tell
12-02-2017, 06:40 AM
WOAH, is this true? They just ended the Obamacare individual mandate? Will the house do the same?


Unlike the House draft, the Senate tax bill eliminates Obamacare’s individual mandate to purchase health insurance.http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/12/01/we-win-taxes-cut-for-all/

enhanced_deficit
12-02-2017, 07:38 AM
WOAH, is this true? They just ended the Obamacare individual mandate? Will the house do the same?

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/12/01/we-win-taxes-cut-for-all/

Yes seems that way, saw same in other news reports too.

euphemia
12-02-2017, 08:40 AM
I have made it very clear to Corker, Alexander, and Cooper that they need to address the spending. "It's the spending, stupid."

specsaregood
12-02-2017, 09:16 AM
WOAH, is this true? They just ended the Obamacare individual mandate? Will the house do the same?

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/12/01/we-win-taxes-cut-for-all/

I wonder who helped make that happen....
Nov. 14th:
930471538985455616

Krugminator2
12-02-2017, 09:46 AM
Exactly. I would support that "trigger". Corker is a useful idiot.

I highly doubt this will happen but I have seen a few stories with this headline. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/01/gop-eyes-post-tax-cut-changes-to-welfare-medicare-and-social-security/?utm_term=.075045cd48b1

"GOP eyes post-tax-cut changes to welfare, Medicare and Social Security"

And apparently Trump is pushing welfare reform privately. ""We’re looking very strongly at welfare reform, and that’ll all take place right after taxes, very soon, very shortly after taxes," Trump said in the White House last Monday. He was backed up (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-welfare/white-house-promises-welfare-overhaul-details-early-next-year-idUSKBN1DK2IK) by his press secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, hours later: “This is something that the president has a great deal of interest in and I think you can count on probably the first part of next year seeing more specifics and details come out on that.”

Probably would be smart politically to eliminate some corporate welfare at the same time.

milgram
12-02-2017, 11:38 AM
Trump was tweeting about Obama's debt a couple days ago so he better not ignore it himself

Jan2017
12-02-2017, 02:08 PM
WOAH, is this true? They just ended the Obamacare individual mandate? Will the house do the same?



McConnell says he has the votes, but they always do that - and I wouldn't forget that there is a McCain still around to explode everything.

Zippyjuan
12-02-2017, 02:14 PM
McConnell says he has the votes, but they always do that - and I wouldn't forget that there is a McCain still around to explode everything.

In case you missed it, the Senate passed the tax cut bill last night. It now goes to be reconciled with the House version and then another vote by both houses. Only Republican who voted against it was Corker.

"We need to pass something- anything!"

goldenequity
12-02-2017, 02:18 PM
McConnell says he has the votes, but they always do that - and I wouldn't forget that there is a McCain still around to explode everything.

Shannon Watts Shannonrwatts
John McCain, undergoing cancer treatment paid for by taxes, just voted to vote to end cancer treatment for taxpayers on Medicare. And we paid him to do it.

Jan2017
12-02-2017, 02:36 PM
In case you missed it, the Senate passed the tax cut bill last night. It now goes to be reconciled with the House version and then another vote by both houses. Only Republican who voted against it was Corker.

"We need to pass something- anything!"


Trump celebrates 'biggest tax cuts in history' after Republicans' push $1.5 TRILLION bill - that the Democrats said they did not have time to read - through the Senate



President Trump celebrated the victory on Twitter five hours after it passed
The Senate approved a sweeping tax overhaul at 1.51am on Saturday
Vote passed by 51-49 as Democrats voted in bloc and one Republican opposed
Vice President Mike Pence announced passage at 1.51am to a round of applause



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5139071/Trump-celebrates-tax-reform-bill-victory-Twitter.html

Zippyjuan
12-02-2017, 04:29 PM
Trump was tweeting about Obama's debt a couple days ago so he better not ignore it himself


Funny to hear the Democrats talking about the National Debt when President Obama doubled it in only 8 years!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/936058006659321858

Republicans and the White House have given up pretending they want to reduce the deficits/ debt or have a balanced budget. Public views have shifted too. More now prefer bigger government than smaller government. During Obama's presidency, the "smaller government" was preferred.

http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2017/04/24091551/12.png

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2017/04/25/pew_survey_americans_suddenly_like_big_government_ again.html


More interestingly, Americans' view of government seems to have rapidly shifted since last September, according to Pew. As many Americans would rather have a bigger government providing more services as at any point in the past couple decades. Support for big government has risen to 48 percent, up from 41 percent in September, while the percent of Americans favoring a smaller government providing fewer services has fallen from 50 to 45 in that time. It's the first time since the beginning of the Obama administration, Pew says, that Americans have been so divided on the subject.

goldenequity
12-02-2017, 05:04 PM
The biggest tax hike in American history is being used to pay for the biggest tax cut
https://theintercept.com/2017/12/01/the-gop-plan-is-the-biggest-tax-increase-in-american-history-by-far/

Zippyjuan
12-02-2017, 05:08 PM
Trump:We Can Balance the Budget Fairly Quickly


"It can be done. ... It will take place and it will go relatively quickly. ... If you have the right people, like, in the agencies and the various people that do the balancing ... you can cut the numbers by two pennies and three pennies and balance a budget quickly and have a stronger and better country."

Sources: Interview with Sean Hannity Feb. 22 and April 4, 2016
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/promise/1430/balance-federal-budget-fairly-quickly/


"If we save just one penny of each federal dollar spent on non-defense, and non-entitlement programs, we can save almost $1 trillion over the next decade," Trump said in a September 2016 campaign speech at the New York Economic Club in Manhattan. "If our plan exceeds the 3.5 percent 10-year growth average, then our jobs proposal will actually reduce the deficit."

Exactly when could Americans expect to see a balanced budget?

Non-military, non-entitlement spending in 2016 was $525 billion. That plan would save about $52 billion a year on a $4 trillion budget. $500 billion over ten years. Assuming you don't raise spending on anything else. But he wants to increase defense spending (again wiping out everything), spend $1 trillion on infrastructure, and build a wall. His balanced budget proposal assumes 3.5% growth and tax revenues $2 trillion higher over that decade. But now the tax cut will mean an estimated $1 trillion LESS in revenues over that time.

devil21
12-04-2017, 03:04 AM
It's a shame that Rand threw all of his "read the bills" rhetoric out the window for this bill. :(

Zippyjuan
12-04-2017, 01:12 PM
It's a shame that Rand threw all of his "read the bills" rhetoric out the window for this bill. :(

Along with his desire for balanced budgets. This will add a lot to the red ink.

devil21
12-04-2017, 01:28 PM
Along with his desire for balanced budgets. This will add a lot to the red ink.

The entire purpose of this tax overhaul is to funnel the currency being held offshore as part of the now-walking-dead petrodollar (TRILLIONS) right back into the pockets of the corporations and the 1% when it is repatriated/floods back. The average person won't see much of that currency and their standard of living will continue to decline after their temporary tax cuts expire. Keeping the returning currency out of the general economy is a prime goal of the bankers, since it keeps the average person poor (and unable to get out of debt using the devalued dollars) and minimizes price inflation.

JamesFischer
12-04-2017, 02:11 PM
The entire purpose of this tax overhaul is to funnel the currency being held offshore as part of the now-walking-dead petrodollar (TRILLIONS) right back into the pockets of the corporations and the 1% when it is repatriated/floods back. The average person won't see much of that currency and their standard of living will continue to decline after their temporary tax cuts expire. Keeping the returning currency out of the general economy is a prime goal of the bankers, since it keeps the average person poor (and unable to get out of debt using the devalued dollars) and minimizes price inflation.

Did you take an economics lesson at your local Occupy Wall Street protest?

devil21
12-04-2017, 02:39 PM
Did you take an economics lesson at your local Occupy Wall Street protest?

Oh look, it's a drive-by shit poster. Got something productive to add or a point to debate or can you only muster ad hominem?

(Btw, all "money" created in the system and everything that sprouts from it is created on the backs of the people. That's not partisan or Occupy or whatever. It's the truth. Perhaps it is you that should study economics.)

Jan2017
12-04-2017, 02:44 PM
It's a shame that Rand threw all of his "read the bills" rhetoric out the window for this bill. :(

Senate Dems complained they didn't read a bill they were about to vote en bloc "NO" against anyway - that is so lame.


Along with his desire for balanced budgets. This will add a lot to the red ink.

Tax cut for most all, so that is red ink for the government, which can downsize -
but citizens and entities that employ those citizens would keep more and give less to the government.

And with the Ocare mandate repealed there is some sort of freedom of choice for a decision to buy health insurance or not
if not gained as part of an employment package/compensation/pension.

YUUGE.

Zippyjuan
12-04-2017, 02:50 PM
Senate Dems complained they didn't read a bill they were about to vote en bloc "NO" against anyway - that is so lame.



Tax cut for most all, so that is red ink for the government, which can downsize -
but citizens and entities that employ those citizens would keep more and give less to the government.

And with the Ocare mandate repealed there is some sort of freedom of choice for a decision to buy health insurance or not
if not gained as part of an employment package/compensation/pension.

YUUGE.

They were literally hand writing changes up to the last moment before the vote. When you have no idea what is in something it may be better to vote "no" than vote "yes". Nobody had the chance to read the whole thing before voting (it runs about 500 pages). It still isn't in final form- the House and Senate bills need to be reconciled and then voted on again. (the Obamacare clause in in the Senate bill but not in the House version- it may or may not be in the final bill- that remains to be seen).

http://resize.tegna-media.com/remote/www.gannett-cdn.com/media/2017/12/02/USATODAY/USATODAY/636478020118964890-tax-page-257.jpg?preset=wx-large

devil21
12-04-2017, 02:57 PM
I'm expecting another December 24th 11pm vote screw job. Congress pushes crap bills through on Christmas Eve. The Fed Act and Obamacare immediately come to mind.

Jan2017
12-04-2017, 03:02 PM
I'll chime in that if you were a GOP Senator and had read the printed version then the handwritten additions would be easier to look at quicker ?

UK DailyMail made it sound that only Dems were using that as an additional criticism to vote against it.

But yeah, it is probably true some GOP Ayes did not feel the need to read the late night additions since they were voting for it anyway in support of the mandate repeal.

Zippyjuan
12-04-2017, 03:04 PM
I'll chime in that if you were a GOP Senator and had read the printed version then the handwritten additions would be easier to look at quicker ?

UK DailyMail made it sound that only Dems were using that as an additional criticism to vote against it.

But yeah, it is probably true some GOP Ayes did not feel the need to read the late night additions since they were voting for it anyway in support of the mandate repeal.

Some admitted that they would vote for any bill- just to get something passed.

Swordsmyth
12-04-2017, 05:58 PM
The conference committee will be led by House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Kevin Brady (R-Tex.), and Senate Finance Committee Chairman Orrin G. Hatch is expected to play a senior role.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2017/12/04/brady-to-lead-reconciliation-of-house-and-senate-tax-bills-as-gop-looks-for-fast-answers/?utm_term=.c4f640225c41

NorthCarolinaLiberty
12-08-2017, 05:57 PM
Republicans and the White House have given up pretending they want to reduce the deficits/ debt or have a balanced budget. Public views have shifted too. More now prefer bigger government than smaller government. During Obama's presidency, the "smaller government" was preferred.



I'd say the people preferring big government now are those perceiving the current administration as wanting smaller government. Smaller government was preferred by people opposed to Obama.

Swordsmyth
12-11-2017, 12:10 AM
President Trump (https://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/donald-trump/) has been willing to accept almost anything to close the deal on his giant tax cut bill before Christmas, including staying mum about a measure that would allow illegal immigrants to pocket the more generous child tax credit included in the package.
Illegal immigrants have been collecting the payoff from the “refundable” tax credit for years because of an IRS interpretation of how the rule was drafted. The Republican-controlled Congress this fall had a chance to correct that in the tax code overhaul that in the Senate version doubled the child tax credit to $2,000 and expanded eligibility.
The House bill increased the child tax credit to $1,600 and upped the income cutoff to receive it.


Both bills neglect to require that the worker have a Social Security number to claim the credit but require only that the qualifying child have a Social Security number.
Under those conditions, illegal immigrant workers with children who benefit from birthright citizenship — a relatively common phenomenon among America’s estimated 12.5 million illegal immigrants — could cash in.

More at: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/dec/10/child-tax-credit-rise-for-illegal-immigrants-inclu/