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r3volution 3.0
11-30-2017, 07:04 PM
If you recall, this was the case which FOX used to generate the anti-immigrant hysteria of 2015 which Trump exploited to win the primary.

The anti-immigrant folk are going berserk, as you might imagine.

Raginfridus
11-30-2017, 07:09 PM
oh yeah, that

NorthCarolinaLiberty
11-30-2017, 07:13 PM
Never heard of this, but looked it up.


Excerpt:
"But in a police interrogation, Garcia Zarate admitted to firing the gun, saying he was aiming at a seal."


http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/30/us/kate-steinle-murder-trial-verdict/index.html




If true, what a dumb fuck. Deserves a good curb stomping.

r3volution 3.0
11-30-2017, 07:14 PM
I haven't been following the case, but apparently the prosecution couldn't show any motive, nor that the shot was aimed (there was a ricochet).

Danke
11-30-2017, 07:24 PM
Stronger immigration policies would have prevented this tragedy.

Brian4Liberty
11-30-2017, 07:26 PM
Well, it's a good thing he didn't have a beer and then accidentally run her over. Then he would be in real trouble.

They should probably give him a blanket and a McDonald's gift card and let him out back onto the streets of San Francisco.

r3volution 3.0
11-30-2017, 07:34 PM
Stronger immigration policies would have prevented this tragedy.

Selecting 10 million native-born Americans at random and deporting them would prevent many tragedies.

Danke
11-30-2017, 07:44 PM
Juan Francisco López-Sánchez (or Francisco Sánchez; given name José Inez García Zárate),[17] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Kathryn_Steinle#cite_note-disconnect_between_ICE-17) of Guanajuato (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanajuato), Mexico, had been deported from the U.S. a total of five times, most recently in 2009.[18] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Kathryn_Steinle#cite_note-18) He was on probation (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probation) in Texas at the time of the shooting.[19] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Kathryn_Steinle#cite_note-Sharpio-19) He had seven felony convictions. When he was apprehended, Garcia Zarate was listed as 45 years old by police, but as 52 in jail records.[20] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Kathryn_Steinle#cite_note-USA_TODAY_20150707-20)
Garcia Zarate arrived in the U.S. sometime before 1991, the year he was convicted of his first drug charge in Arizona (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona). In 1993, he was convicted three times in Washington (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_(state)) state for felony heroin (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin) possession and manufacturing narcotics (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcotics). Following another drug conviction and jail term, this time in Oregon (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon), the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Naturalization_Service) deported Garcia Zarate in June 1994. However, Garcia Zarate returned to the U.S. within two years and was convicted again of heroin possession in Washington state. He was deported for the second time in 1997.[17] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Kathryn_Steinle#cite_note-disconnect_between_ICE-17)
On February 2, 1998, Garcia Zarate was deported for the third time, after reentering the U.S. through Arizona. United States Border Patrol (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Border_Patrol) caught him six days later at a border crossing, and a federal court sentenced Garcia Zarate to five years and three months in federal prison for unauthorized reentry. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), successor of the INS, deported Garcia Zarate in 2003 for his fourth deportation. However, he reentered the U.S. through the Texas border and got another federal prison sentence for reentry before being deported for the fifth time in June 2009.[17] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Kathryn_Steinle#cite_note-disconnect_between_ICE-17)
Less than three months after his fifth deportation, Garcia Zarate was caught attempting to cross the border in Eagle Pass, Texas (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Pass,_Texas). He pleaded guilty to felony reentry; upon sentencing, a federal court recommended Garcia Zarate be placed in "a federal medical facility as soon as possible".[17] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Kathryn_Steinle#cite_note-disconnect_between_ICE-17)
On March 26, 2015, at the request of the San Francisco Sheriff's Department (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Sheriff%27s_Department) (SFSD), United States Bureau of Prisons (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bureau_of_Prisons) (BOP) had turned Garcia Zarate over to San Francisco authorities for an outstanding drug warrant.[21] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Kathryn_Steinle#cite_note-sheriff's_request-21) San Francisco officials transported Garcia Zarate to San Francisco County Jail on March 26, 2015, to face a 20-year-old felony charge of selling and possessing marijuana after Garcia Zarate completed his latest prison term in San Bernardino County (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Bernardino_County) for entering in the country without the proper documents.[22] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Kathryn_Steinle#cite_note-ap2-22)
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Customs_Enforcement) (ICE) had issued a detainer (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detainer) for Garcia Zarate requesting that he be kept in custody until immigration authorities could pick him up. However, as a sanctuary city (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_city), its “Due Process for All” ordinance[23] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Kathryn_Steinle#cite_note-23) restricted cooperation with ICE to cases only where the immigrant had both current violent felony charges and past violent felony convictions; therefore, San Francisco disregarded the detainer and released him.[24] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Kathryn_Steinle#cite_note-released_from_jail-24)[25] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Kathryn_Steinle#cite_note-Due_Process-25) He was released from San Francisco County Jail on April 15, 2015 and had no outstanding warrants or judicial warrants, as confirmed by the San Francisco Sheriff's Department

euphemia
11-30-2017, 07:46 PM
Stinking California judges and juries can't get anything right. This was at least negligent homicide. He was an illegal deported many times who should not have had a gun. He was out on a crowded dock and shot the gun he wasn't supposed to have. He killed a woman.

Once again, you people who think an armed population would have prevented this, are very, very wrong. Once the shot was fired, there was no saving Kate.

Swordsmyth
11-30-2017, 07:46 PM
Selecting 10 million native-born Americans at random and deporting them would prevent many tragedies.

It would cause 10 million, being careful who we let in causes none.

Swordsmyth
11-30-2017, 07:48 PM
Stinking California judges and juries can't get anything right. This was at least negligent homicide. He was an illegal deported many times who should not have had a gun. He was out on a crowded dock and shot the gun he wasn't supposed to have. He killed a woman.

Once again, you people who think an armed population would have prevented this, are very, very wrong. Once the shot was fired, there was no saving Kate.

In this case the answer is immigration enforcement.

Danke
11-30-2017, 07:59 PM
It would cause 10 million, being careful who we let in causes none.

Apparently five strikes and you’re not out.

r3volution 3.0
11-30-2017, 08:02 PM
It would cause 10 million

If you mean that deporting innocent people is a tragedy, I agree.


being careful who we let in causes none.

Sure it does, see above


He had seven felony convictions....

...first (1) drug charge in Arizona.

In 1993, he was convicted three times in Washington state for felony (2,3,4) heroin possession and manufacturing narcotics.

Following (5) another drug conviction and jail term, this time in Oregon...

...was (6) convicted again of heroin possession in Washington state.

He pleaded guilty to (7) felony reentrySeven victimless crimes...

And the monstrous offense for which he was being held in San Fransisco before they released him?


20-year-old felony charge of selling and possessing marijuana

The horror...

Swordsmyth
11-30-2017, 08:02 PM
Apparently five strikes and you’re not out.

The border wall needs a "Trespassers will be shot" sign.

Swordsmyth
11-30-2017, 08:05 PM
Sure it does, see above

Nope, not being let in or being kicked out of a place you were not allowed is not a tragedy.


Seven victimless crimes...

And the monstrous offense for which he was being held in San Fransisco before they released him?



The horror...


The drug war is a separate issue.

AuH20
11-30-2017, 08:07 PM
These absurd decisions just feed the Trump train. No justice, no peace as they like to say. Heh.

Danke
11-30-2017, 08:08 PM
If you mean that deporting innocent people is a tragedy, I agree.



Sure it does, see above

Seven victimless crimes...

And the monstrous offense for which he was being held in San Fransisco before they released him?



The horror...



We we get it, you don’t believe anyone should be deported.

He stole and fired the gun for peaceful purposes.

r3volution 3.0
11-30-2017, 08:08 PM
Nope, not being let in or being kicked out of a place you were not allowed is not a tragedy.

The state declares that your friends aren't allowed on your property and puts up a "trespassers will be shot" sign.

They do in fact shoot these "trespassers" or at least forcibly remove them from your property.

Cool?

Swordsmyth
11-30-2017, 08:18 PM
The state declares that your friends aren't allowed on your property and puts up a "trespassers will be shot" sign.

They do in fact shoot these "trespassers" or at least forcibly remove them from your property.

Cool?

Are they citizens? Did they come here legally? Have they broken other laws in their hosts' domain? (when you are a guest it doesn't matter whether the hosts' rules are fair or right)

Personal property is not the same as national territory, since you disagree on that point there is no reason to continue this debate.

r3volution 3.0
11-30-2017, 08:22 PM
Are they citizens? Did they come here legally? Have they broken other laws in their hosts' domain? (when you are a guest it doesn't matter whether the hosts' rules are fair or right)

Doesn't matter, doesn't matter, and not any just ones (it sure does), resp.


Personal property is not the same as national territory, since you disagree on that point there is no reason to continue this debate.

Da komrad, I'm aware of your belief in the communal ownership of the national territory.

Swordsmyth
11-30-2017, 08:32 PM
Da komrad, I'm aware of your belief in the communal ownership of the national territory.

I am aware that your fellow heretics at the ComIntern deny that groups any smaller than all of mankind can exert any form of ownership or control over property tovaritch, as long as our foundational premises are different any further discussion is pointless.

ChristianAnarchist
11-30-2017, 08:47 PM
Stinking California judges and juries can't get anything right. This was at least negligent homicide. He was an illegal deported many times who should not have had a gun. He was out on a crowded dock and shot the gun he wasn't supposed to have. He killed a woman.

Once again, you people who think an armed population would have prevented this, are very, very wrong. Once the shot was fired, there was no saving Kate.

Well, you are right about her being dead and armed populace would not have stopped it however you are forgetting the "justice" part of this equation. If an armed person had pulled out his gun and killed the creep at least he would not be walking free tonight.

I don't believe that "borders" will stop these kinds of crimes (they never had and they never will). Crimes will not go away. Your goonerment will never keep you safe. Laws are a joke. If you want to be safe you must provide for your own safety however you can. If you feel that carrying a gun makes you safer (I would agree) then carry one...

euphemia
11-30-2017, 08:57 PM
If you mean that deporting innocent people is a tragedy, I agree.

Seven victimless crimes...

And the monstrous offense for which he was being held in San Fransisco before they released him?

The horror...


You really are not thinking clearly. Seven so-called victimless crimes were what he was caught doing. You doing have even the tiniest clue what else he has done, and we darn sure know there is one dead victim because the other crimes were either not discovered or we didn't find a way to keep this horrible excuse for a human being out of the country. Likely the seven and the unknowns emboldened him to do shoot a woman in cold blood. He was never innocent.

Keep on with your foolishness. You know it will never sell.

Brian4Liberty
11-30-2017, 09:04 PM
Stinking California judges and juries can't get anything right. This was at least negligent homicide. He was an illegal deported many times who should not have had a gun. He was out on a crowded dock and shot the gun he wasn't supposed to have. He killed a woman.

Once again, you people who think an armed population would have prevented this, are very, very wrong. Once the shot was fired, there was no saving Kate.

Oh, don't you worry about the gun possession charge. There was no question that they would find him guilty of that. Can't have people with guns out there, they might shoot someone...

Brian4Liberty
11-30-2017, 09:07 PM
These types of trials are decided at jury selection time. That is where the prosecution failed.

The guy aimed and fired at her. His elevation was off (thus the ricochet), but his line was right on. "Stepped on the gun in a T-shirt". LOL. Maybe he ate some Twinkies that made him do it...

dannno
11-30-2017, 09:17 PM
And also let's not forget....that attempted murder... of... an endangered species....that ain't legal either..


The Dude: What are you, a fuckin Park Ranger now??


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oovqYtMy1BI

Anti Federalist
11-30-2017, 09:29 PM
Shut up and embrace the diversity ya bunch of racists.

Zippyjuan
11-30-2017, 09:51 PM
If it was deliberate, he was a heck of a shot.


Evans said it appeared the bullet struck the ground about 15 feet from where Garcia Zarate was sitting and then traveled the length of a football field before striking Steinle.


A Bureau of Land Management ranger reported the semiautomatic handgun had been stolen from his SUV several days before the shooting. A police diver found it in San Francisco Bay the day after the shooting.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-steinle-trial-20171030-story.html

AuH20
11-30-2017, 09:59 PM
This moron first told the authorities that he was attempting to shoot at the nearby sea lions, which makes me question his judgement even further.

Danke
11-30-2017, 10:08 PM
If it was deliberate, he was a heck of a shot.





http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-steinle-trial-20171030-story.html

a bullet from that type of handgun to hit the ground first then travel 300 feet will not have much energy.

Swordsmyth
11-30-2017, 10:14 PM
a bullet from that type of handgun to hit the ground first then travel 300 yards will not have much energy.

A football field is 100 yds.

Danke
11-30-2017, 10:17 PM
A football field is 100 yds.

Sorry, meant feet...

Swordsmyth
11-30-2017, 10:20 PM
Sorry, meant feet...

That's what I figured.

Brian4Liberty
11-30-2017, 10:30 PM
If it was deliberate, he was a heck of a shot.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-steinle-trial-20171030-story.html

"appeared". Call me skeptical about that evaluation. I would guess it would have to hit the ground further away (lesser angle) from the shooter to maintain it's energy to kill her. No doubt no one did any experiments to confirm or deny the hypothesis. Now if he was shooting at a bird on the ground, then 15 feet away might make sense, but that excuse was never used.

While it wouldn't be terribly hard for an experienced shooter to hit a person at 100 yards (taking their time), there would be some (bad) luck involved for a beginner. He may have been aiming at a seal, or the father, or people on the pier in general. But it lined up with Kate.

Danke
11-30-2017, 10:35 PM
That's what I figured.


it is still possible, but most Feds load hollow point, and they would destruct hitting the ground. But maybe it was a different type of round.

Swordsmyth
11-30-2017, 10:37 PM
it is still possible, but most Feds load hollow point, and they would destruct hitting the ground. But maybe it was a different type of round.

I thought that govt. workers use FMJ.

AuH20
11-30-2017, 10:52 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUhqk0HDaag

AuH20
11-30-2017, 10:53 PM
Even the people in Mexico and Latin America are sick of these shitbirds. Some of the most vigilant border wall advocates are former immigrants who went through the legal process.

Danke
11-30-2017, 10:56 PM
I thought that govt. workers use FMJ.

I don’t know. From my experience, I thought the opposite.

http://libertynews.com/2013/02/feds-order-another-21-6-million-rounds-of-hollow-point-ammo/

pcosmar
11-30-2017, 11:19 PM
Nope, not being let in or being kicked out of a place you were not allowed is not a tragedy.

[FONT=&]

The drug war is a separate issue.

Nope.
Not since it's creation has it been separated from anything.

The entire legal "system" the MASSIVE INCREASE IN ENFORCERS OF CONTROL,
Several wars, and related foreign policy

and the Economy..

Hell yes it is an issue.

Swordsmyth
11-30-2017, 11:21 PM
Nope.
Not since it's creation has it been separated from anything.

The entire legal "system" the MASSIVE INCREASE IN ENFORCERS OF CONTROL,
Several wars, and related foreign policy

and the Economy..

Hell yes it is an issue.

It is a BIG issue, but it is a separate issue, we can control our borders and immigration AND de-criminalize ALL drugs, it would probably even help with border security.

Zippyjuan
11-30-2017, 11:25 PM
"appeared". Call me skeptical about that evaluation. I would guess it would have to hit the ground further away (lesser angle) from the shooter to maintain it's energy to kill her. No doubt no one did any experiments to confirm or deny the hypothesis. Now if he was shooting at a bird on the ground, then 15 feet away might make sense, but that excuse was never used.

While it wouldn't be terribly hard for an experienced shooter to hit a person at 100 yards (taking their time), there would be some (bad) luck involved for a beginner. He may have been aiming at a seal, or the father, or people on the pier in general. But it lined up with Kate.

Without performing the actual trigonometry, if the bullet hit her in the back (assume something like four feet off the ground) 300 feet past the ricochet and the point of the ricochet was about 15 feet from where he was, that gun wasn't very far off the ground when it went off. She was 20 times farther from that point than he was.


Garcia Zarate said he found the gun wrapped in a T-shirt on the pier and it accidentally fired when he picked it up.


Authorities returned to the popular pier four days later, after the bullet was found to be partially flattened, indicating it had ricocheted, he said.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-steinle-trial-20171030-story.html

OK- using an online calculator figuring four feet high and 300 feet away, the angle off the pier was 0.78 degrees. Granted a bullet will lose height over that distance. Figuring 15 feet as the distance from the gun to the ricochet point, it gives me about 0.2 feet off the ground.
http://www.cleavebooks.co.uk/scol/calrtri.htm

I have seen different figures for how far away she was from the ricochet. This article claims 78 feet: http://abc7news.com/expert-for-defense-in-steinle-murder-case-raises-questions-about-ricocheting-bullet/2610897/

That gives me an angle of three degrees and an estimated height of 0.77 feet.

(edited to correct calculations- I missed a decimal point in the original one I posted)

From that article:


First, he testified that the trigger pull of the gun used to shoot Kate Steinle was light, about four pounds when left in single action mode, meaning ready to fire.

"If someone were to try to grab it or catch it or if it caught on an article of clothing, it could discharge and we're talking about an extremely light trigger pull," Norris testified.

Initially, Garcia Zarate told police he found the stolen gun at the pier and that it went off when he stepped on it, but later admitted to holding the gun wrapped in a piece of cloth and examining it when it went of.

pcosmar
11-30-2017, 11:31 PM
It is a BIG issue, but it is a separate issue, we can control our borders and immigration AND de-criminalize ALL drugs, it would probably even help with border security.
I have never been a fan of Authoritarian Control. and see no need for it in most cases.

Perhaps if you support Authoritarian Govt, it seems logical. (it would)

I can not.

Swordsmyth
11-30-2017, 11:40 PM
I have never been a fan of Authoritarian Control. and see no need for it in most cases.

Perhaps if you support Authoritarian Govt, it seems logical. (it would)

I can not.

I believe the world is full of people who want to destroy freedom, we have too many of them already here, we have to control who comes here or we will not be able to keep what we have let alone get more, the closer we get to true freedom the more true this principle becomes.

Origanalist
11-30-2017, 11:50 PM
I believe the world is full of people who want to destroy freedom, we have too many of them already here, we have to control who comes here or we will not be able to keep what we have let alone get more, the closer we get to true freedom the more true this principle becomes.

Is that like " I have to destroy the free market to save it?

Swordsmyth
11-30-2017, 11:51 PM
Is that like " I have to destroy the free market to save it?
NO.

Origanalist
11-30-2017, 11:52 PM
NO.

Hmmm

Swordsmyth
11-30-2017, 11:54 PM
Hmmm

Hmmmmmmmm...........

Origanalist
11-30-2017, 11:59 PM
Hmmmmmmmm...........

So if we build a 50 foot inpenetrable wall, Dobie can be free?

Swordsmyth
12-01-2017, 12:07 AM
So if we build a 50 foot inpenetrable wall, Dobie can be free?

Who or what is dobie?

In any case if you control your border you can be as free as you allow yourself to be inside it, if you leave it you can only be as free as the people outside allow you to be, if you don't control it you can only be as free as whoever crosses it allows you to be.

Origanalist
12-01-2017, 12:15 AM
Who or what is dobie?

In any case if you control your border you can be as free as you allow yourself to be inside it, if you leave it you can only be as free as the people outside allow you to be, if you don't control it you can only be as free as whoever crosses it allows you to be.

Lol, sounds like a plan.

cindy25
12-01-2017, 12:31 AM
classic jury nullification ; and they elected Roy moore

Swordsmyth
12-01-2017, 12:37 AM
classic jury nullification ; and they elected Roy moore

???

Weston White
12-01-2017, 02:32 AM
If you mean that deporting innocent people is a tragedy, I agree.



Sure it does, see above

Seven victimless crimes...

And the monstrous offense for which he was being held in San Fransisco before they released him?



The horror...


(8) Felon in possession of a firearm, (9) felon firing weapon within city limits, (10) felon violating the Marine Mammal Protection Act of 1972.

Brian4Liberty
12-01-2017, 11:21 AM
Without performing the actual trigonometry, if the bullet hit her in the back (assume something like four feet off the ground) 300 feet past the ricochet and the point of the ricochet was about 15 feet from where he was, that gun wasn't very far off the ground when it went off. She was 20 times farther from that point than he was.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-steinle-trial-20171030-story.html

OK- using an online calculator figuring four feet high and 300 feet away, the angle off the pier was 0.78 degrees. Granted a bullet will lose height over that distance. Figuring 15 feet as the distance from the gun to the ricochet point, it gives me about 0.2 feet off the ground.
http://www.cleavebooks.co.uk/scol/calrtri.htm

I have seen different figures for how far away she was from the ricochet. This article claims 78 feet: http://abc7news.com/expert-for-defense-in-steinle-murder-case-raises-questions-about-ricocheting-bullet/2610897/

You can speculate all day long. First of all, I am a skeptic, and I have little faith that the true trajectory was discovered, or will ever be known. I don't trust that the "mark" they found on the ground was where the bullet first hit. Maybe it ricocheted off of something else. Maybe it ricocheted off a purse buckle or a bone. Maybe it didn't ricochet at all.

I don't know, you don't know, and I don't trust that the cops (or even a scientist) would know for sure.

What we do know is that it came from that gun, and hit her. That is the known fact.

Brian4Liberty
12-01-2017, 12:47 PM
classic jury nullification ; and they elected Roy moore


???

I believe the point is that this verdict will create some right wing backlash. Maybe in the Roy Moore vote, and very likely with the immigration/wall issue.

Raginfridus
12-01-2017, 01:06 PM
The drug war is a separate issue.No, illegal immigration as we've been seeing for 40 years now is a consequence of our so-called War on Drugs. Humans don't uproot en mass from communities, customs, and land they've been familiar with for generations, unless those communities are being destroyed by man or environment.


(8) Felon in possession of a firearm, (9) felon firing weapon within city limits, (10) felon violating the Marine Mammal Protection Act of 1972.If he wasn't everybody's poster child for this or that, just some mug, he'd be cooling for a long time, but we have careers to consider and feelings to foment.

A Son of Liberty
12-01-2017, 01:09 PM
Once again, you people who think an armed population would have prevented this, are very, very wrong. Once the shot was fired, there was no saving Kate.

Non sequitur.

A Son of Liberty
12-01-2017, 01:12 PM
Well, you are right about her being dead and armed populace would not have stopped it however you are forgetting the "justice" part of this equation. If an armed person had pulled out his gun and killed the creep at least he would not be walking free tonight.

I don't believe that "borders" will stop these kinds of crimes (they never had and they never will). Crimes will not go away. Your goonerment will never keep you safe. Laws are a joke. If you want to be safe you must provide for your own safety however you can. If you feel that carrying a gun makes you safer (I would agree) then carry one...

As per usual, sir:


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ChristianAnarchist again.

Swordsmyth
12-01-2017, 01:14 PM
No, illegal immigration as we've been seeing for 40 years now is a consequence of our so-called War on Drugs. Humans don't uproot en mass from communities, customs, and land they've been familiar with for generations, unless those communities are being destroyed by man or environment.

The issues DO interact but they are separate, as I said above:

It is a BIG issue, but it is a separate issue, we can control our borders and immigration AND de-criminalize ALL drugs, it would probably even help with border security.

Superfluous Man
12-01-2017, 01:14 PM
Selecting 10 million native-born Americans at random and deporting them would prevent many tragedies.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to r3volution 3.0 again."

A Son of Liberty
12-01-2017, 01:18 PM
I believe the world is full of people who want to destroy freedom, we have too many of them already here, we have to control who comes here

https://media.tenor.com/images/7ecfbeda956b033c41f10e5986eb9ab1/tenor.gif

Superfluous Man
12-01-2017, 01:21 PM
I believe the world is full of people who want to destroy freedom, we have too many of them already here, we have to control who comes here or we will not be able to keep what we have let alone get more, the closer we get to true freedom the more true this principle becomes.

Notice how you want to make decisions for other people who don't want to go along with your decisions, and then include them in this "we," whose actions you propose to regulate.

dannno
12-01-2017, 01:21 PM
https://media.tenor.com/images/7ecfbeda956b033c41f10e5986eb9ab1/tenor.gif

Laugh it up, but the data shows immigrants from south of the border and their progeny vote for bigger government at nearly double the rate as natives.

TheTexan
12-01-2017, 01:26 PM
If only we had a wall.

A Son of Liberty
12-01-2017, 01:31 PM
As a professed anti-statist, I hold that "the State" has no legitimate authority to restrict the movement of individuals, regardless of imaginary "lines on a map". That said, at a minimum, this man should have been found guilty of involuntary manslaughter. IF THE STATE IS GOING TO EXIST it should be limited to some basic utility, and thus by a quote-unquote constitutionalist standard he should have been found as such.

This finding is a travesty, in my view. I find it highly likely that this was a political finding, in that his racial and immigrant status was the overarching circumstance in the jury's decision, and not the facts of the case. I believe that had a white native male been the subject of the trial, the finding would have been for the prosecution.

THIS is actual ANARCHY, as the nay-sayers of anti-statism actually portray it (as opposed to the thoughtful statelessness that we anti-statists propose).

Raginfridus
12-01-2017, 01:35 PM
Once the shot was fired, there was no saving Kate....think of the children?

A Son of Liberty
12-01-2017, 01:36 PM
Laugh it up, but the data shows immigrants from south of the border and their progeny vote for bigger government at nearly double the rate as natives.

"The world is full of people who want to destroy freedom..."

"We have to control who comes here..."

https://media.giphy.com/media/bzEQpExhmAvK0/giphy.gif

Zippyjuan
12-01-2017, 01:37 PM
Who or what is dobie?

In any case if you control your border you can be as free as you allow yourself to be inside it, if you leave it you can only be as free as the people outside allow you to be, if you don't control it you can only be as free as whoever crosses it allows you to be.

Dobby was a charachter in Harry Potter. Harry freed Dobby by showing him some kindness.

https://media.rbl.ms/image?u=%2Ffiles%2F2016%2F08%2F07%2F63606191643305 6620-2112787353_dobby1.gif&ho=https%3A%2F%2Faz616578.vo.msecnd.net&s=171&h=2fe63488e391e366e98ebe2d37b0a0303e61f0ba6c7cf0dd 8c8854869bffc6ba&size=980x&c=2499344524

http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Dobby

Raginfridus
12-01-2017, 01:39 PM
If only we had a wall.and more ICE drones:

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/1/31/1391183856052/Westworld-008.jpg?w=300&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&https://i.imgur.com/eHp5rUo.jpg

Superfluous Man
12-01-2017, 01:43 PM
Laugh it up, but the data shows immigrants from south of the border and their progeny vote for bigger government at nearly double the rate as natives.

That's mathematically impossible.

Superfluous Man
12-01-2017, 01:44 PM
"The world is full of people who want to destroy freedom..."

"We have to control who comes here..."

https://media.giphy.com/media/bzEQpExhmAvK0/giphy.gif

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to A Son of Liberty again."

Swordsmyth
12-01-2017, 01:45 PM
Dobby was a charachter in Harry Potter. Harry freed Dobby by showing him some kindness.

https://media.rbl.ms/image?u=%2Ffiles%2F2016%2F08%2F07%2F63606191643305 6620-2112787353_dobby1.gif&ho=https%3A%2F%2Faz616578.vo.msecnd.net&s=171&h=2fe63488e391e366e98ebe2d37b0a0303e61f0ba6c7cf0dd 8c8854869bffc6ba&size=980x&c=2499344524

http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Dobby

Dobie=/=Dobby unless Origanalist says that is what he meant.

A Son of Liberty
12-01-2017, 01:48 PM
That's mathematically impossible.

Whether it is or not is inconsequential to the matter at hand.

What is offensive to individual liberty is The Vote (tm) itself. Further, it is offensive to individual liberty to suggest that individual liberty is advanced by restricting the physical movement of non-violent human beings.

That being said, this POS who shot Ms. Steinle, either intentionally or accidentally, should have found his tit in a legitimate ringer, his "immigrant status" not withstanding (and that seems to be the fact lost upon the Trumpistas)... and I hope he does find it so one way or another.

ETA: I know where I'd be on this matter, were I her relative.

Zippyjuan
12-01-2017, 01:50 PM
Dobie=/=Dobby unless Origanalist says that is what he meant.

Maybe he meant Dobie Gillis.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Dobie_gillis_1960.JPG/200px-Dobie_gillis_1960.JPG

Swordsmyth
12-01-2017, 01:55 PM
Further, it is offensive to individual liberty to suggest that individual liberty is advanced by restricting the physical movement of non-violent human beings.

Do they want government to exist and violate your precious NAP to a much greater degree than you claim minarchists do?

Does that not make them VIOLENT by your definitions?

You can't use the word one way to tar minarchists and then change the definition to defend the invading barbarians.

Zippyjuan
12-01-2017, 01:57 PM
Laugh it up, but the data shows immigrants from south of the border and their progeny vote for bigger government at nearly double the rate as natives.

That's OK. They are only half as likely to vote in the first place. That makes it a wash. Plus net immigration from Mexico stopped in 2007. It's now the Asians you need to watch out for.

https://i1.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/frey-race-blog_fig1a_new.png?w=768&crop=0%2C0px%2C100%2C9999px&ssl=1

https://i2.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/new-new-new.png?w=768&crop=0%2C0px%2C100%2C9999px&ssl=1

dannno
12-01-2017, 02:00 PM
That's mathematically impossible.

Stop using that phrase if you don't even know what a rate is.

dannno
12-01-2017, 02:01 PM
That's OK. They are only half as likely to vote in the first place. That makes it a wash.

No, it doesn't.

Zippyjuan
12-01-2017, 02:07 PM
Stop using that phrase if you don't even know what a rate is.

What are the rates? If the immigrant voting block is so powerful and we have had such massive waves of immigration (according to some), how did Republicans even have a shot at controlling all three branches of government?

Raginfridus
12-01-2017, 02:13 PM
Plus net immigration from Mexico stopped in 2007. It's now the Asians you need to watch out for.https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Editorial%2C_harpers_weekly_1885.jpg

A Son of Liberty
12-01-2017, 02:16 PM
Do they want government to exist and violate your precious NAP to a much greater degree than you claim minarchists do?

Does that not make them VIOLENT by your definitions?

You can't use the word one way to tar minarchists and then change the definition to defend the invading barbarians.

Yeah, I don't. I don't pre-emptively "tar" people for violations of individual liberty. I let them do that for themselves.

People who VOTE - PERIOD - violate the NAP. So, in my book, you're no better than your boogie-man "illegal" immigrant.

That said you may note that I advocate the family of Ms. Steinle dealing with things as they see fit in this case. Particularly because Ms. Steinle's father witnessed the horror himself.

You may detect a logical consistency in my take on this matter. Give it a try some time.

dannno
12-01-2017, 02:18 PM
What are the rates?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtZNXl2WcAAEDGS.jpg



"The world is full of people who want to destroy freedom..."

"We have to control who comes here..."

https://media.giphy.com/media/bzEQpExhmAvK0/giphy.gif

It's a sad reality.. but the majority of whites, and the majority of current US citizens want SMALLER government.

The vast majority of immigrants want bigger government.

Zippyjuan
12-01-2017, 02:20 PM
,,,,

Whoah! Molyneaux found a person from Venezuela? (I see you changed the image you had up)

From Pew Research:

http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2012/04/2012-phc-identity-23.png

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/04/v-politics-values-and-religion/?src=prc-number

dannno
12-01-2017, 02:28 PM
Whoah! Molyneaux found a person from Venezuela?

From Pew Research:

http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2012/04/2012-phc-identity-23.png

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/04/v-politics-values-and-religion/?src=prc-number

Conservative or liberal or whatever is meaningless when you have a survey that asks them if they think government should be bigger or smaller.

Swordsmyth
12-01-2017, 02:31 PM
Yeah, I don't. I don't pre-emptively "tar" people for violations of individual liberty. I let them do that for themselves.

People who VOTE - PERIOD - violate the NAP. So, in my book, you're no better than your boogie-man "illegal" immigrant.

That said you may note that I advocate the family of Ms. Steinle dealing with things as they see fit in this case. Particularly because Ms. Steinle's father witnessed the horror himself.

You may detect a logical consistency in my take on this matter. Give it a try some time.


Further, it is offensive to individual liberty to suggest that individual liberty is advanced by restricting the physical movement of non-violent human beings.

You claimed that I wanted to restrict the movement of NON-VIOLENT human beings when in fact by your definition they are VIOLENT.


The world is filled with people who want to reduce your freedom and when we try to stop them and increase your freedom you claim that they are innocent and we are guilty.

Until you have your own planet you can't achieve your fantasy but we can achieve more freedom than you have ever experienced if we use minarchy.

Zippyjuan
12-01-2017, 02:35 PM
Conservative or liberal or whatever is meaningless when you have a survey that asks them if they think government should be bigger or smaller.

Shows that if Republicans tried courting them rather than attacking them they could get more Hispanics to vote with than against them. They are more conservative that most Republicans think.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/01/news/la-pn-ron-paul-nevada-latino-forum-20120201

Ron Paul:

"I believe Hispanics have been used as scapegoats, to say, they're the problem instead of being a symptom maybe of a problem with the welfare state," Paul told the group. "In Nazi Germany they had to have scapegoats to blame and they turned on the Jews.

"Now there's a lot of antagonism and resentment turned just automatically on immigrants," he continued. "You say, no not immigrants, it's just illegal immigrants. I do believe in legal immigration. I want to have a provision to obey those laws. You have to understand this in the context of the economy."

Paul said he's not one of those politicians who believes that "barbed-wire fences and guns on our border will solve any of our problems." That's not, he said, the American way. And he doesn't think that a national identification card is the way to go.

What the country does need, he said, is "a much better immigration service" fed by more resources. Not that he'd "vote for extra money." But he does, he told the crowd, have a plan.

Check out the bottom question in this poll:

http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2016/10/PH_2016.10.11_Politics_4-04.png

http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2016/10/PH_2016.10.11_Politics_0-01.png

Swordsmyth
12-01-2017, 02:40 PM
Shows that if Republicans tried courting them rather than attacking them they could get more Hispanics to vote with than against them. They are more conservative that most Republicans think.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/01/news/la-pn-ron-paul-nevada-latino-forum-20120201

Ron Paul:


Check out the bottom question in this poll:

http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2016/10/PH_2016.10.11_Politics_4-04.png

http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2016/10/PH_2016.10.11_Politics_0-01.png

In the first place I don't believe those statistics, in the second place nobody can be called conservative who would vote for the Demoncrats because the Reps "hurt their feelings", that is the kind of voters who will destroy the country.

A Son of Liberty
12-01-2017, 03:08 PM
You claimed that I wanted to restrict the movement of NON-VIOLENT human beings when in fact by your definition they are VIOLENT.

"They are violent"?...


The world is filled with people who want to reduce your freedom and when we try to stop them and increase your freedom you claim that they are innocent and we are guilty.

Until you have your own planet you can't achieve your fantasy but we can achieve more freedom than you have ever experienced if we use minarchy.

meh, yer right... 'kay? You can only have freedom by restricting freedom. You're not LITERALLY A Brave New World or anything...

It's not like the truth isn't just staring you right in the face. You're TOTALLY RIGHT! Only people who've been born within the ambiguously defined "USA" have any conception of "freedom". If only we keep people who weren't born within the arbitrarily defined USA out, we'll have freedumb.

You'll have freedumb. You'll get it, good and hard.

Fuckin' moron.

Zippyjuan
12-01-2017, 03:20 PM
It's a sad reality.. but the majority of whites, and the majority of current US citizens want SMALLER government.

The vast majority of immigrants want bigger government.

Do they? Not when you get into specific items.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/311168-poll-trump-voters-are-more-supportive-of-government-growth-that


Poll: Trump voters more supportive of federal spending than other conservatives


A new nationwide poll released on Tuesday found that Trump voters are more supportive of federal government growth and spending in some areas than traditional conservatives.

According to a new Glover Park Group (GPG) poll conducted by Morning Consult, a majority of Trump voters said that they believe in keeping the power of numerous federal agencies, including the Food and Drug Administration, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and the Departments of Education, Agriculture and Health and Human Services.

“This poll shows that the coalition that supported President-elect Trump values and has distinct priorities for the role of government, and isn’t making the same demands as traditional conservatives for across-the-board cuts,” said the senior vice president of research at GPG, Katie Cissel.


Results from a different survey shows similar results:

http://www.people-press.org/2017/04/24/how-republicans-and-democrats-view-federal-spending/

Of Republicans,

35% said we should spend less on healthcare- the rest said same or more.

7% said spend less on terrorism

10% said cut Social Security

7% said spend less on infrastructure (roads, bridges, etc)

37% said cut assistance to needy people in the US

8% said cut military spending

44% said cut government assistance to the unemployed (40% said keep it- 13% said spend more)

15% said cut Medicare (35% said we should spend more on it)

15% said cut spending on Education

For all responders:

http://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2017/04/24091553/21.png

tod evans
12-01-2017, 03:36 PM
Selecting 10 million native-born Americans at random and deporting them would prevent many tragedies.

Let's start with California...

FSP-Rebel
12-01-2017, 04:49 PM
936553863255031809

Zippyjuan
12-01-2017, 04:58 PM
936553863255031809

Non-violent drug crimes which were irrelevant to the charge of murder. But he was an immigrant- he must be guilty of something.

A Son of Liberty
12-01-2017, 05:17 PM
Non-violent drug crimes which were irrelevant to the charge of murder. But he was an immigrant- he must be guilty of something.

Your State made the rules... if It's not going to enforce them, what's the point? Or do you advocate selective enforcement? Now THAT'S a slippery slope, kid.

FSP-Rebel
12-01-2017, 05:18 PM
Non-violent drug crimes which were irrelevant to the charge of murder. But he was an immigrant- he must be guilty of something.

Optics bro. Both now, and unfortunately, rallying cries prior to the next elections.

Zippyjuan
12-01-2017, 05:20 PM
Optics bro. Both now, and unfortunately, rallying cries prior to the next elections.

Yes, fear sells. However unrealistic and irrational it may be. They need a boogeyman to protect you from. All they ask in return is your vote, your liberty, and a few $billion to pay for it.

FSP-Rebel
12-01-2017, 05:43 PM
Yes, fear sells. However unrealistic and irrational it may be. They need a boogeyman to protect you from. All they ask in return is your vote, your liberty, and a few $billion to pay for it.

Sorry, but when the murderer of a high profile woman (to which her story partially got Trump elected) gets off scott free, it's going to forever piss off at minimum - all of whom who voted for him the first time. Remind them later and it's game over. I don't hail from a sanctuary hotspot so I don't fear illegals personally; however, I feel empathy for those that have had bad experiences. Trump is doing way better than the alternative and the world is finally talking and taking interest in something near and dear to my heart and wallet: bitcoin.

dannno
12-01-2017, 05:46 PM
Maybe he meant Dobie Gillis.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Dobie_gillis_1960.JPG/200px-Dobie_gillis_1960.JPG

Holy shit, it's Bob fucking Denver!!

Zippyjuan
12-01-2017, 05:47 PM
Sorry, but when the murderer of a high profile woman (to which her story partially got Trump elected) gets off scott free, it's going to forever piss off at minimum - all of whom who voted for him the first time. Remind them later and it's game over. I don't hail from a sanctuary hotspot so I don't fear illegals personally; however, I feel empathy for those that have had bad experiences. Trump is doing way better than the alternative and the world is finally talking and taking interest in something near and dear to my heart and wallet: bitcoin.

Jury got to look at the evidence and decided that it wasn't murder but a tragic accident.

donnay
12-01-2017, 05:47 PM
This verdict is a joke. The jury were serious uninformed and I sure hope no one on that jury, in the future, have a crime like what happened to Kate and her family happen to any of them.

They want a civil war--this is becoming clearer every day...and when there is no justice, there is just-us.

donnay
12-01-2017, 05:49 PM
Jury got to look at the evidence and decided that it wasn't murder but a tragic accident.

The accident wouldn't have happened if he were not here to have it.

Swordsmyth
12-01-2017, 05:49 PM
Jury got to look at the evidence and decided that it wasn't murder but a tragic accident.

whitey deserves to die.

dannno
12-01-2017, 05:49 PM
Sorry, but when the murderer of a high profile woman (to which her story partially got Trump elected) gets off scott free, it's going to forever piss off at minimum - all of whom who voted for him the first time. Remind them later and it's game over. I don't hail from a sanctuary hotspot so I don't fear illegals personally; however, I feel empathy for those that have had bad experiences. Trump is doing way better than the alternative and the world is finally talking and taking interest in something near and dear to my heart and wallet: bitcoin.

I've lived in sanctuary type hotspots, or areas with very high concentrations of legal and illegal hispanic immigrants my whole life.. I don't fear them at all, some are bad but most behave really well because they don't want to have to leave here and go back, or they are at least grateful for being here.

Where I have come to fear them most is the ballot box..

But if people have an irrational fear of them for other reasons, well, the ballot box is probably more dangerous than those other reasons anyway.

Zippyjuan
12-01-2017, 05:50 PM
Holy $#@!, it's Bob $#@!ing Denver!!

AKA Maynard G Krebs- resident beatnik.

Zippyjuan
12-01-2017, 05:56 PM
The accident wouldn't have happened if he were not here to have it.

If the pier wasn't there, it would not have happened since nobody would be there (unless they were in the water). If Stenle wasn't there the accident would not have happened. If the group of people seen on video at the location believed to have left the gun behind didn't leave it, it would not have happened. If the BLM agent hadn't left a loaded weapon in his vehicle and had it stolen, this would not have happened (he was not reprimanded but was instead promoted later in the year). If he had left a gun lock on his gun (as required), it could not have been fired. Nobody has been charged with the theft of the gun. Lots of "if not".

dannno
12-01-2017, 05:58 PM
AKA Maynard G Krebs- resident beatnik.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEN97Ng_UQ8

donnay
12-01-2017, 06:08 PM
If the pier wasn't there, it would not have happened since nobody would be there (unless they were in the water). If Stenle wasn't there the accident would not have happened. If the group of people seen on video at the location believed to have left the gun behind didn't leave it, it would not have happened. If the BLM agent hadn't left a loaded weapon in his vehicle and had it stolen, this would not have happened (he was not reprimanded but was instead promoted later in the year). If he had left a gun lock on his gun (as required), it could not have been fired. Nobody has been charged with the theft of the gun. Lots of "if not".

I believe there are accidents, this clearly wasn't an accident. He had broken the law just by being illegal.

Zippyjuan
12-01-2017, 06:19 PM
I believe there are accidents, this clearly wasn't an accident. He had broken the law just by being illegal.

Why was it not an accident? No single witness can say they saw him pointing a gun at anybody.


He had broken the law just by being illegal.

That is why some assume he must be guilty of murder- because he wasn't legally in the country. They are all criminals, rapists and murders!

timosman
12-01-2017, 06:24 PM
Can we stand for our own?

Influenza
12-01-2017, 06:47 PM
Even if it was an accident, how is that not at least manslaughter? He picked up a weapon and "the gun" fired in a direction where people were situated. The gun firing by itself, while plausible, is no way provable, and only did so after being handled by the man. How he didn't get convicted of something​ is beyond me

Anti Federalist
12-01-2017, 06:52 PM
Let's ask these guys how allowing millions of people hostile to them, their people, their way of life, ideals, customs and traditions; unfettered immigration, a demographic invasion, to their ancestral lands and homes, worked out for them.

http://www.hotcakencyclopedia.com/People/image.ArapahoMen.jpg

Swordsmyth
12-01-2017, 06:54 PM
Even if it was an accident, how is that not at least manslaughter? He picked up a weapon and "the gun" fired in a direction where people were situated. The gun firing by itself, while plausible, is no way provable, and only did so after being handled by the man. How he didn't get convicted of something​ is beyond me

How about possession of stolen property? (the gun)

He claimed to have been shooting at a sea lion so how on earth does anyone claim the gun fired by accident?

Influenza
12-01-2017, 06:55 PM
How about possession of stolen property? (the gun)

He claimed to have been shooting at a sea lion so how on earth does anyone claim the gun fired by accident?
I think he changed his story a time or two, who knows what the real story was at this point

now that I think about, he was convicted of possessing an illegal firearm. But of course I meant something related to the actual killing

angelatc
12-01-2017, 06:57 PM
Even if it was an accident, how is that not at least manslaughter? He picked up a weapon and "the gun" fired in a direction where people were situated. The gun firing by itself, while plausible, is no way provable, and only did so after being handled by the man. How he didn't get convicted of something​ is beyond me

If he had been shooting at her and accidentally hit the seal he'd likely be in prison for the rest of his life. They're protected.

Swordsmyth
12-01-2017, 06:57 PM
I think he changed his story a time or two, who knows what the real story was at this point

Of course he changed his story after someone told him that shooting at a sea lion was a crime and it left him open to manslaughter, but the fact is he admitted firing the gun, anything less incriminating can be taken for a lie after that.

donnay
12-01-2017, 07:01 PM
Why was it not an accident? No single witness can say they saw him pointing a gun at anybody.

Is it a common practice for people to walk on the pier in San Francisco and shoot a gun?




That is why some assume he must be guilty of murder- because he wasn't legally in the country. They are all criminals, rapists and murders!

To be 'illegal' means he broke the law from the get-go. Citizens in San Francisco don't open carry or are they allowed to exercise their second amendment? What makes him better than the citizens of the country he is illegally in?

timosman
12-01-2017, 07:22 PM
936704207150862336

dannno
12-01-2017, 07:31 PM
I think he changed his story a time or two, who knows what the real story was at this point

now that I think about, he was convicted of possessing an illegal firearm. But of course I meant something related to the actual killing

Per Molyneux's video, his original claim was that he was firing the gun at sea lions, but that fell apart and he then claimed that the gun was wrapped in some cloth or something and he unwrapped it and it just started firing.

Raginfridus
12-01-2017, 07:34 PM
Let's ask these guys how allowing millions of people hostile to them, their people, their way of life, ideals, customs and traditions; unfettered immigration, a demographic invasion, to their ancestral lands and homes, worked out for them.

http://www.hotcakencyclopedia.com/People/image.ArapahoMen.jpg
https://media.giphy.com/media/l2SqgVwLpAmvIfMCA/giphy.gif


Why was it not an accident? No single witness can say they saw him pointing a gun at anybody. Most guns don't fire themselves.

donnay
12-01-2017, 07:48 PM
After Kate Steinle’s Illegal Killer Goes Scot-Free, His Attorney’s ‘Sick Secret’ Comes Out

December 1, 2017 Rebecca Diserio

The horrible injustice of the “not guilty” verdict in the Kate Steinle’s case is rocking the nation, and the man behind the killer’s defense, Attorney Matt Gonzalez, couldn’t wait to get on live TV immediately after the verdict and bash President Donald Trump. As Kate’s family was trying to leave the San Francisco courthouse, Gonzalez was grabbing the mic and started politicizing the verdict. You’ll be livid over his “sick secret” that just got exposed.

Attorney Matt Gonzalez is a hardcore leftist who was assigned to represent Jose Ines Garcia Zarate, the illegal alien who was deported multiple times and was awaiting yet another deportation at the time he shot Steinle. So, how was Zarate walking around free in San Francisco after he was in the custody of the San Francisco sheriff’s department?

“Before the shooting, the San Francisco sheriff’s department had released him from jail despite a federal immigration request to detain him for deportation. San Francisco’s ‘sanctuary city’ law limits cooperation with U.S. immigration authorities,” reports USA Today.

Who is the sheriff of San Francisco, who decided to look the other way and let Zarate go free before the ICE agents could take custody of him? His name is Ross Mirkarimi, and as the sheriff at the time of Steinle’s murder, he has been under fire for letting Zarate walk away when ICE was coming to deport him.

Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi has some explaining to do. President Donald Trump was all over this case, as were patriotic Americans who are demanding answers as to why this guy was walking around free, and for his own self-preservation, former Sheriff Mirkarimi knew it was imperative to get a not guilty verdict.

So, is it any coincidence that his best friend, Attorney Matt Gonzalez, was assigned the case? That’s right, Mirkarimi and Gonzalez are best buddies. The San Fransico Chronicle reports, “The path that has brought him [Attorney Matt Gonzalez] to center stage in the [Garcia-Zarate] case has often intersected with that of Mirkarimi, another player in the drama.”

The report adds, “The two first met in 1999 when Mirkarimi managed Hallinan’s re-election campaign against Gonzalez. Mirkarimi later ran Gonzalez’s 2003 campaign for mayor, then succeeded Gonzalez as the district’s supervisor in 2005, a position he held until he was elected sheriff in 2011. Gonzalez left the Democratic Party in 2003 and registered with the California Green Party, which Mirkarimi had helped to found in 1990.”

Ross Mirkarimi is no lawman. He started out as a leftist politician who termed out as a County Supervisor and decided to run for sheriff. He had no business being in charge of the San Francisco sheriff’s department, but as a guy with the right connections, he made sure – with the help of his good buddy Attorney Matt Gonzalez – that his part in Steinle’s murder would be swept under the rug.

Ross Mirkarimi has a long history of run-ins with the law. That’s how crazy it is that this guy was actually the sheriff of San Francisco. On January 13, 2012, Mirkarimi was charged with domestic violence battery, child endangerment, and dissuading a witness, his wife. He beat up his wife, then got her to drop the charges. The liberal loser even had his own drivers license revoked while he served as sheriff.

Gonzalez is a leftist loony who ran as Green Party’s Ralph Nadar’s vice-presidential candidate in 2008. He is part of the San Francisco swamp represented by Nancy Pelosi.

The sick secret is the political maneuvering that went on behind the scenes by Mirkarimi, making sure his good friend Gonzalez was assigned this case. Gonzalez made sure the jury heard nothing of Zarate’s record and defended his friend Mirkarimi’s criminal act of letting this illegal alien go when he knew full well ICE was en route to pick him up.

Then, we have Attorney Gonzalez’s sick presser, politicizing the murder of an American citizen after the verdict. “For those who might be critical of this verdict, there are a number of people that have commented on this case in the last couple of years — the attorney general of the United States, the president and vice president of the United States — let me just remind them that they are themselves are under investigation by a special prosecutor in Washington, D.C.,” Gonzalez said outside court, reports the San Francisco Gate.

Kate Steinle and her family never had a chance where justice is concerned. The sheriff at the time of her murder is a corrupt politician who had zero law enforcement experience. He used his post as sheriff to let illegal aliens go, and it was a cause he was proud of, along with his cohort who loved championing sanctuary cities, Attorney Matt Gonzalez.

Kate Steinle wasn’t in the wrong place at the wrong time. Nothing about her murder was an “accident.” She is a victim of the sick leftists, Mirkarimi who swore to protect illegals and Kate’s representative, Nancy Pelosi, who has championed illegals and sanctuary cities for years. They care nothing about protecting American citizens. Matt Gonzalez was brought on to protect Mirkarimi and Pelosi, to make sure a murderer walked free.

Kate Steinle’s death and the corruption in the trial that followed was all orchestrated by hardcore leftists. They have blood on their hands, as Gonzalez blathers on about justice and President Trump. It’s time Attorney Jeff Sessions pursue federal charges against Jose Ines Garcia Zarate, and he better do it fast before those rats in San Francisco let him get away, again.
http://madworldnews.com/kate-steinle-killer-attorney/?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com

Swordsmyth
12-01-2017, 07:53 PM
Kate Steinle wasn’t in the wrong place at the wrong time.


http://madworldnews.com/kate-steinle-killer-attorney/?utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fzen.yandex.com

San Fransicko in this day and age is the wrong place and the wrong time.

Anyone normal needs to leave Sodom in a hurry.

FSP-Rebel
12-01-2017, 08:43 PM
Jury got to look at the evidence and decided that it wasn't murder but a tragic accident.

936457610710065152

Ender
12-01-2017, 08:51 PM
Let's ask these guys how allowing millions of people hostile to them, their people, their way of life, ideals, customs and traditions; unfettered immigration, a demographic invasion, to their ancestral lands and homes, worked out for them.

http://www.hotcakencyclopedia.com/People/image.ArapahoMen.jpg

So, should we be giving them back their country?

Swordsmyth
12-01-2017, 08:58 PM
Thousands call for San Francisco boycott after Kate Steinle verdicthttp://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Thousands-call-for-San-Francisco-boycott-after-12399131.php

Swordsmyth
12-01-2017, 09:00 PM
So, should we be giving them back their country?

Of course you would jump to suggest that we penalize innocent people who live today for the debatable (and I mean that literally) actions of people who are no longer living when you can't deal with the logic point that proves your position to be insane.

Ender
12-01-2017, 09:08 PM
Of course you would jump to suggest that we penalize innocent people who live today for the debatable (and I mean that literally) actions of people who are no longer living when you can't deal with the logic point that proves your position to be insane.

You mean like the Palestinians were penalized? Seems a logic most Americans support- as long as it's other people's turf.

Swordsmyth
12-01-2017, 09:15 PM
You mean like the Palestinians were penalized? Seems a logic most Americans support- as long as it's other people's turf.

That's right, set up a strawman to hide the fact that you are losing.

We are not discussing what most Americans supposedly support nor are we discussing Israel/Palestine.

Zippyjuan
12-01-2017, 09:24 PM
Is it a common practice for people to walk on the pier in San Francisco and shoot a gun?





To be 'illegal' means he broke the law from the get-go. Citizens in San Francisco don't open carry or are they allowed to exercise their second amendment? What makes him better than the citizens of the country he is illegally in?

He didn't bring the gun- he found it there. A group of about six young people were seen at that location shortly before. Based on the angle of the ricochet (it hit about 15 feet from where he was and she was about 80 feet farther away than that so figuring hitting her about four feet off the ground- in her back) , the gun was about two feet off the ground when it went off. If he was deliberately trying to shoot something, it would have been up closer to eye level.

Swordsmyth
12-01-2017, 09:26 PM
He didn't bring the gun- he found it there. A group of about six young people were seen at that location shortly before.

Sure he did. :rolleyes:

Pauls' Revere
12-01-2017, 09:26 PM
Well, it's a good thing he didn't have a beer and then accidentally run her over. Then he would be in real trouble.

They should probably give him a blanket and a McDonald's gift card and let him out back onto the streets of San Francisco.

Probably will, he was up to be deported for the sixth time and a convicted felon. Shouldn't have had the gun at all in his hands.

Ender
12-01-2017, 09:34 PM
That's right, set up a strawman to hide the fact that you are losing.

We are not discussing what most Americans supposedly support nor are we discussing Israel/Palestine.

I was discussing the indigenous people of America, who don't bear a lot of resemblance to those who you want to keep free by taking more freedom from them. Karma's a bitch.

Talk about a strawman. :rolleyes:

r3volution 3.0
12-01-2017, 09:38 PM
(8) Felon in possession of a firearm, (9) felon firing weapon within city limits, (10) felon violating the Marine Mammal Protection Act of 1972.

Yes, guns kill people; what now Nancy?

r3volution 3.0
12-01-2017, 09:43 PM
I am aware that your fellow heretics at the ComIntern deny that groups any smaller than all of mankind can exert any form of ownership or control over property tovaritch, as long as our foundational premises are different any further discussion is pointless.

"For the people. And truly I desire their Liberty and Freedom as much as any Body whomsoever. But I must tell you, That their Liberty and Freedom, consists in having of Government; those Laws, by which their Life and their goods may be most their own. It is not for having share in government (Sir) that is nothing pertaining to them. A subject and a sovereign are clean different things, and therefore until they do that, I mean, that you do put the people in that liberty as I say, certainly they will never enjoy themselves. Sirs, It was for this that now I Am come here. If I would have given way to an Arbitrary way, for to have all Laws changed according to the power of the Sword, I needed not to have come here; and therefore, I tell you, (and I pray God it be not laid to your charge) That I Am the Martyr of the People."

-- King Charles I, from the scaffold, January 30 1649

Brian4Liberty
12-01-2017, 09:47 PM
He didn't bring the gun- he found it there. A group of about six young people were seen at that location shortly before. Based on the angle of the ricochet (it hit about 15 feet from where he was and she was about 80 feet farther away than that so figuring hitting her about four feet off the ground- in her back) , the gun was about two feet off the ground when it went off. If he was deliberately trying to shoot something, it would have been up closer to eye level.

Damn you are good at towing the Party line, comrade.

Swordsmyth
12-01-2017, 09:51 PM
I was discussing the indigenous people of America, who don't bear a lot of resemblance to those who you want to keep free by taking more freedom from them. Karma's a bitch.

Talk about a strawman. :rolleyes:


LOL

The government already controls immigration so even by you definitions I don't want to take more freedom from anyone, and the Native Americans were used by AF to demonstrate what happens when you are overwhelmed by people who don't share your culture or values so they are not a strawman, they are the point.

When you couldn't defeat AF's logic you resorted to an idiotic distraction by calling for modern Americans to be deported to Europe and when I pointed out how unjust that was you tried to distract by bringing up Israel/Palestine which has nothing to do with AF's or my position.

You have exposed the intellectual bankruptcy of your position through your inability to defend it through any honest debate.

Zippyjuan
12-01-2017, 09:52 PM
Damn you are good at towing the Party line, comrade.

Do you have evidence to the contrary?

Swordsmyth
12-01-2017, 09:56 PM
Do you have evidence to the contrary?

He admitted to firing the gun before he changed his story.

Danke
12-01-2017, 10:01 PM
LOL

The government already controls immigration so even by you definitions I don't want to take more freedom from anyone, and the Native Americans were used by AF to demonstrate what happens when you are overwhelmed by people who don't share your culture or values so they are not a strawman, they are the point.

When you couldn't defeat AF's logic you resorted to an idiotic distraction by calling for modern Americans to be deported to Europe and when I pointed out how unjust that was you tried to distract by bringing up Israel/Palestine which has nothing to do with AF's or my position.

You have exposed the intellectual bankruptcy of your position through your inability to defend it through any honest debate.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Swordsmyth again.


I’d like to see the current Indians return the land to those that they conquered.

Ender
12-01-2017, 10:06 PM
LOL

The government already controls immigration so even by you definitions I don't want to take more freedom from anyone, and the Native Americans were used by AF to demonstrate what happens when you are overwhelmed by people who don't share your culture or values so they are not a strawman, they are the point.

When you couldn't defeat AF's logic you resorted to an idiotic distraction by calling for modern Americans to be deported to Europe and when I pointed out how unjust that was you tried to distract by bringing up Israel/Palestine which has nothing to do with AF's or my position.

You have exposed the intellectual bankruptcy of your position through your inability to defend it through any honest debate.

Right- I made one comment- you took offense and started with the name-calling and insults, as you always do.

I am not trying to defeat AF's logic- he is pointing out an obvious fact- however, contrary to your continuous strawman arguments, the problems we face to today are indeed a part of the WoD- it is NOT a separate issue, any more than bombing other countries is separate from blowback.

Get over yourself.

Zippyjuan
12-01-2017, 10:07 PM
https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2017/11/30/steinle-trial-verdict/


It was stolen from a U.S. Bureau of Land Management ranger’s car four days before Steinle’s death, but police couldn’t find any evidence tying Garcia Zarate to that burglary or other related car break-ins. Gonzalez has said the thefts indicate the work of a professional auto-burglary ring, not his client, who has no history of theft or any violent crimes. Judge Samuel Feng instructed the jury to assume Garcia Zarate did not steal the gun.

A defense video expert testified that surveillance video from about a quarter-mile away captured Garcia Zarate bending down just before the shooting — though the blurry video excerpt was hard to make out definitively. He also testified about a group of six people who can clearly be seen gathered around the seat Garcia Zarate would occupy 30 minutes later, appearing to set down and pick up a number of objects. The defense implied the group could have been placing the stolen gun.


The defense called two firearms experts, one who testified about the gun’s likely position at or below Garcia Zarate’s knees when the shot was fired, initially flying toward the pier. The other testified that several aspects of the shooting indicated an accidental discharge, including a single shot being fired, the ricochet and no apparent motivation for shooting.

The bullet ricocheted 12 to 15 feet from Garcia Zarate, then ascended at a low angle for another 78 feet before hitting Steinle.

Weston White
12-01-2017, 10:07 PM
Whether it is or not is inconsequential to the matter at hand.

What is offensive to individual liberty is The Vote (tm) itself. Further, it is offensive to individual liberty to suggest that individual liberty is advanced by restricting the physical movement of non-violent human beings.

That being said, this POS who shot Ms. Steinle, either intentionally or accidentally, should have found his tit in a legitimate ringer, his "immigrant status" not withstanding (and that seems to be the fact lost upon the Trumpistas)... and I hope he does find it so one way or another.

ETA: I know where I'd be on this matter, were I her relative.

Yes, let us flood all nations with third-world socialists, yes let;s do that and see what it to be the endgame. Add enough water into a cup and even the darkest drops of ink will entirely disappear.

Weston White
12-01-2017, 10:09 PM
Yes, guns kill people; what now Nancy?

??? (Sorry, I no longer have my Orphan Annie Secret Society decoder pin.)

Swordsmyth
12-01-2017, 10:12 PM
I am not trying to defeat AF's logic- he is pointing out an obvious fact-

An obvious fact that you tried to ridicule with a stupid suggestion meant to imply that in order to have an intellectual leg to stand on AF would have to support giving the land back to the Indians.


however, contrary to your continuou strawman arguments, the problems we face to today are indeed a part of the WoD- it is NOT a separate issue, any more than bombing other countries is separate from blowback.
No, as I have pointed out before they are 2 different issues that interact, we had illegal aliens before the war on drugs.

r3volution 3.0
12-01-2017, 10:12 PM
??? (Sorry, I no longer have my Orphan Annie Secret Society decoder pin.)

It's tough being a marine mammal.

Zippyjuan
12-01-2017, 10:12 PM
https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2017/10/20/federal-agency-promoted-ranger-just-months-after-his-gun-was-stolen-and-used-in-steinle-killing/


Federal Agency Promoted Ranger Five Months After His Gun Was Stolen and Used in Steinle Killing

Five months after Kathryn Steinle was slain on San Francisco’s waterfront, the U.S. Bureau of Land Management promoted the law enforcement ranger whose unsecured stolen gun was used to kill her, according to an internal BLM email obtained by KQED.

Jose Ines Garcia Zarate, an undocumented Mexican national, is expected to go on trial in San Francisco next week on a charge of murder in Steinle’s killing. Conservative lawmakers have seized on Garcia Zarate’s history of deportations and illegal re-entry into the U.S. — plus San Francisco’s policy that ignored a detention request from immigration authorities — to fuel a political assault on so-called sanctuary cities.

BLM ranger John Woychowski’s .40-caliber Sig Sauer handgun has received far less attention, and how it ended up in Garcia Zarate’s hands remains a mystery.




The attorneys say Woychowski was driving his personal vehicle, and he had passengers — his then-girlfriend and three children, 5, 10 and 14 years old. According to attorneys familiar with the case, Woychowski told investigators he left on a day off and drove up the California coast — over 600 miles — before stopping near the Embarcadero in San Francisco for dinner at almost 10 p.m.

When Woychowski and the group returned to the vehicle, they found it burglarized, with the backpack containing Woychowski’s duty weapon and ammunition missing. It had been stashed under the driver’s seat.

The gun’s path from there to Jose Ines Garcia Zarate’s hands — as he sat in a spinning metal chair on Pier 14 four days later — is unknown.


Woychowski made a report to San Francisco police at 11:14 p.m., according to the defense motion. Another auto burglary, in a parking garage near 300 Embarcadero, just down the street from Pier 14, was reported at 11:34 p.m. The backpack, a .40-caliber ammunition magazine and Woychowski’s BLM-issued credit cards were found near the site of the second break-in.


“If the San Francisco Police Department and the district attorney wanted to, they could have pressed charges,” civil attorney Alison Cordova said in an interview. “From what we know, John Woychowski did not have his gun in a locked compartment in the vehicle. It was in a backpack, unlocked in the vehicle. That is not a locked compartment. It was a violation of criminal law at the time that it happened.”

Defense attorney Gonzalez says that wasn’t the only crime. Woychowski had a second handgun in the spare tire wheel well in the trunk of his car that Gonzalez says was also unsecured. It wasn’t stolen. Woychowski didn’t mention it to police investigators, and they didn’t ask, Gonzalez said.


Even though he wasn’t criminally charged, Woychowski should have faced administrative discipline — such as a reprimand, suspension or firing, Gonzalez says, for violating BLM law enforcement policies in addition to state law.

He faced none, however.

The gun was stolen about ten days before the incident.

Swordsmyth
12-01-2017, 10:15 PM
https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2017/11/30/steinle-trial-verdict/

The model of gun involved doesn't "drop-fire" and he admitted to firing the gun before changing his story.

Weston White
12-01-2017, 10:17 PM
https://media.tenor.com/images/7ecfbeda956b033c41f10e5986eb9ab1/tenor.gif


https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/31573183/theyre-all-gonna-laugh-at-you-good.jpg

r3volution 3.0
12-01-2017, 10:28 PM
The reality is here wasn't evidence to convict this nitwit.

And this shakes the idiot nationalists to the bone.

...or would shake them, if they still had thoughts.

Danke
12-01-2017, 10:31 PM
The reality is here wasn't evidence to convict this nitwit.

And this shakes the idiot nationalists to the bone.

...or would shake them, if they still had thoughts.

You mean other than his confession?

dannno
12-01-2017, 10:34 PM
He admitted to firing the gun before he changed his story.

Are you saying his testimony is not credible?!

Danke
12-01-2017, 10:37 PM
Why throw the gun in the bay?" they asked. Per ABC 7, Garcia Zarate answered, "I thought it was going to continue shooting."
This statement implicated Garcia Zarate after he had initially said he stepped on the gun and it went off. The defendant described finding the gun wrapped in a cloth or t-shirt, insisting he had found it right there, near the pier.
A couple of troubling things arose out of the airing of the confession that are likely to be part of the focus of cross-examination Thursday by defense attorney Matt Gonzalez.
For one, the investigators asked Garcia Zarate multiple times what he was shooting at. At one point he said he was shooting at "a sea animal," as the Chronicle reports (http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Kate-Steinle-killer-s-rambling-account-He-12324625.php), though KQED has him saying "sea lion" and then correcting himself to say, "a black fish." This contradicts other statements that the gun went off accidentally. Garcia Zarate would also say that he though Steinle, or the woman he hit, was five feet away from him when in fact she was about 90 feet away.

Origanalist
12-01-2017, 10:46 PM
So, to be clear, the denizens of RPF want government to assert its powers, go after the illegals, because poster boy Jose killed a pretty white girl in the land of fruits and nuts. Of course government thus empowered would never go after them and we dont stand a chance of getting a libertarian country as long as the socialists from the south infect this bastion of freedom.

Sorry folks, but we have bigger problems than Jose.

Origanalist
12-01-2017, 10:48 PM
I'm much more concerned with the infestation from the north east portion of the country.

Swordsmyth
12-01-2017, 11:00 PM
I'm much more concerned with the infestation from the north east portion of the country.
True, so when we/they secede will you argue that we should let them all move in on us after they turn their countries into hell holes?

They already do this while constrained by the constitution and our politicians, thanks to the fact that the other states can't exclude them while part of the union.

Origanalist
12-01-2017, 11:12 PM
True, so when we/they secede will you argue that we should let them all move in on us after they turn their countries into hell holes?

They already do this while constrained by the constitution and our politicians, thanks to the fact that the other states can't exclude them while part of the union.

I have long been of the opinion that if we have to suffer under government it needs to be much smaller and much more locally controlled. So it would depend on local sentiments, not empire issued edicts.

Swordsmyth
12-01-2017, 11:16 PM
I have long been of the opinion that if we have to suffer under government it needs to be much smaller and much more locally controlled. So it would depend on local sentiments, not empire issued edicts.

So the answer is: Yes we would need to control immigration to protect freedom from statist barbarians.

pcosmar
12-01-2017, 11:16 PM
(8) Felon in possession of a firearm,

#4
though I plead to "attempted possession".

My wife had a shotgun.

Origanalist
12-01-2017, 11:24 PM
So the answer is: Yes we would need to control immigration to protect freedom from statist barbarians.

Apples and oranges, but carry on.

Swordsmyth
12-01-2017, 11:27 PM
Apples and oranges.
And both need to be protected from insect damage.

timosman
12-01-2017, 11:36 PM
I have long been of the opinion that if we have to suffer under government it needs to be much smaller and much more locally controlled.

Did your opinion make any dents in the size of the government? Is there anything, short of this lofty goal, worth your attention?

r3volution 3.0
12-01-2017, 11:55 PM
I'm just thankful that the former host of a reality TV show is there to keep us safe.

But for Him, we'd clearly all be murdered by Mexicans.

Clearly

timosman
12-01-2017, 11:57 PM
I'm just thankful that the former host of a reality TV show is there to keep us safe.

But for Him, we'd clearly all be murdered by Mexicans.

Clearly

Now you started moving goal posts like the most respected poster on this forum.

r3volution 3.0
12-01-2017, 11:58 PM
Now you started moving goal posts like the most respected poster on this forum.

I just don't know what I'd do if you didn't share more of your insights.

Brian4Liberty
12-02-2017, 12:16 AM
Do you have evidence to the contrary?

Do you have any evidence that Iraqi soldiers didn't throw premature babies on the floor and take their incubators?


https://ww2.kqed.org/news/2017/10/20/federal-agency-promoted-ranger-just-months-after-his-gun-was-stolen-and-used-in-steinle-killing/

The gun was stolen about ten days before the incident.

Captain Obvious strikes again. So tell us why the weapon ended up dropped on the ground wrapped in a t-shirt by a group of mysterious persons right before this poor fool stepped on the gun making it fire and kill this girl?

Brian4Liberty
12-02-2017, 12:18 AM
So, to be clear, the denizens of RPF want government to assert its powers, go after the illegals, because poster boy Jose killed a pretty white girl in the land of fruits and nuts. Of course government thus empowered would never go after them and we dont stand a chance of getting a libertarian country as long as the socialists from the south infect this bastion of freedom.

Sorry folks, but we have bigger problems than Jose.

What are you talking about?

Weston White
12-02-2017, 12:21 AM
I'm just thankful that the former host of a reality TV show is there to keep us safe.

But for Him, we'd clearly all be murdered by Mexicans.

Clearly


https://i.imgur.com/PCecIRE.gif


(2015)

Last week, the Mexican government released new data showing that between 2007 and 2014 — a period that accounts for some of the bloodiest years of the nation’s war against the drug cartels — more than 164,000 people were victims of homicide. Nearly 20,000 died last year alone, a substantial number, but still a decrease from the 27,000 killed at the peak of fighting in 2011.

Over the same seven-year period, slightly more than 103,000 died in Afghanistan and Iraq, according to data from the United Nations and the website Iraq Body Count.


https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/art/progs/3220/mexico_homicides.png

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-staggering-death-toll-of-mexicos-drug-war/

Danke
12-02-2017, 02:31 AM
What are you talking about?


I think his bf is an illegal.

A Son of Liberty
12-02-2017, 05:49 AM
If the pier wasn't there, it would not have happened since nobody would be there (unless they were in the water). If Stenle wasn't there the accident would not have happened. If the group of people seen on video at the location believed to have left the gun behind didn't leave it, it would not have happened. If the BLM agent hadn't left a loaded weapon in his vehicle and had it stolen, this would not have happened (he was not reprimanded but was instead promoted later in the year). If he had left a gun lock on his gun (as required), it could not have been fired. Nobody has been charged with the theft of the gun. Lots of "if not".

Here's the thing - none of those people were holding the fucking gun when it discharged and the issuing bullet went through Kate Steinle's brain.

Ya know, I have tended to hold that you've gotten a bad rap around here... but you're take on this... it's not just disingenuous; it is ignorant. You're making excuses, and they're REACHES, at best. This guy was holding the gun that went off and killed a 32 year old woman. At a MINIMUM, according to YOUR STATE, that is MANSLAUGHTER. A NOT-GUILTY verdict is CLEARLY a POLITICAL ruling.

Try being honest. Just give it a try.

This has NOTHING to do with Zarate's immigration status... that's nonsense, agreed... He is a human being, and she was a human being. This is about being responsible for consequences - we don't get to cause the death of another human being without being held accountable.

Your defense of this guy is just senseless.

Origanalist
12-02-2017, 06:16 AM
I think his bf is an illegal.

You think too much.

Origanalist
12-02-2017, 06:50 AM
Did your opinion make any dents in the size of the government? Is there anything, short of this lofty goal, worth your attention?

1. No.

2. Sure,, kids, grandkids, work, the old lady, motorcycles, good whiskey and more.


And you?

Danke
12-02-2017, 07:02 AM
You think too much.

Oh? Your bf has papers?

William Tell
12-02-2017, 07:05 AM
Justice should be blind. Seems clear it is not. Most of us would be rotting for decades if we did the same thing. Regardless of opinions on immigration we should at least come to terms with the fact that illegals are above the law at least in some states. Kinda pisses me off that the rest of us are not. But not for a crime like this of course.

ChristianAnarchist
12-02-2017, 08:36 AM
All the arguments made here are factually correct in that he was here without "permission", he picked up a gun that wasn't his (it's clear he does not carry one nor could a homeless person afford the weapon that it turns out was stolen from a goon), the gun fired, the bullet hit concrete before hitting the woman (who's life was tragically ended).

All those who want a wall point out that he violated a goonerment law by being here. Yup!
All those who want a goonsquad to "protect" them point out that this guy was a crook. Yup!
It's clear that during his goon intimidation he changed his story several times. Yup!
Has anyone shown where the guy was trying to hurt anyone? Nope!
Has anyone shown any reason for the shot other than accident? Nope!

Sorry, but this is clearly NOT murder. I think an argument can be made for manslaughter but I'm not sure what elements need to be proven for that charge. It really is a shame that this girl was killed by this mans stupid actions but you know what? My brother was killed by the stupid actions of an electrician some 30 years ago and no one was ever charged. I miss my brother... The electrician was a foulking idiot and I wish I could punish him but he did not "murder" my brother.

donnay
12-02-2017, 08:57 AM
Justice should be blind. Seems clear it is not. Most of us would be rotting for decades if we did the same thing. Regardless of opinions on immigration we should at least come to terms with the fact that illegals are above the law at least in some states. Kinda pisses me off that the rest of us are not. But not for a crime like this of course.

Yes you're correct. However, I see this as a political ploy to set off a civil war, of which the deep state would like nothing more.

In this case, common sense should dictate and it does for most of us. So the collective anger builds and they sit back, kick their heels up and smile.

They take our goodness as weakness.

A Son of Liberty
12-02-2017, 09:17 AM
All the arguments made here are factually correct in that he was here without "permission", he picked up a gun that wasn't his (it's clear he does not carry one nor could a homeless person afford the weapon that it turns out was stolen from a goon), the gun fired, the bullet hit concrete before hitting the woman (who's life was tragically ended).

All those who want a wall point out that he violated a goonerment law by being here. Yup!
All those who want a goonsquad to "protect" them point out that this guy was a crook. Yup!
It's clear that during his goon intimidation he changed his story several times. Yup!
Has anyone shown where the guy was trying to hurt anyone? Nope!
Has anyone shown any reason for the shot other than accident? Nope!

Sorry, but this is clearly NOT murder. I think an argument can be made for manslaughter but I'm not sure what elements need to be proven for that charge. It really is a shame that this girl was killed by this mans stupid actions but you know what? My brother was killed by the stupid actions of an electrician some 30 years ago and no one was ever charged. I miss my brother... The electrician was a foulking idiot and I wish I could punish him but he did not "murder" my brother.

I think it's pretty clear that we're dealing with a poliltically motivated jury here, CA.

People who hold individualist political view points should either organize with intent in California, or they should abandon the territory altogether.

We've witnessed the upending of justice with this finding, in my opinion. This was a trial-by-jury. I'm all for nullification, but these 12 people have obviously - in my view - made a political finding, as opposed to a just finding. And as a consequence, they have inaugurated - whether it is acted upon or not - a vigilantist society.

Speaking personally, I'm okay with that. I'm just not sure most people understand what that means.

Raginfridus
12-02-2017, 09:24 AM
Yes you're correct. However, I see this as a political ploy to set off a civil war, of which the deep state would like nothing more.

So the collective anger builds and they sit back, kick their heels up and smile.
Is this a big deal in California? I haven't seen a change in anybody since Kate was shot.

Anti Federalist
12-02-2017, 10:28 AM
So, should we be giving them back their country?

Might as well.

If western European Enlightenment culture of liberalism, in the true sense of the word, is not worth defending or protecting or promoting, sure, why not.

Call it quits and give it all back.

AuH20
12-02-2017, 10:42 AM
So, to be clear, the denizens of RPF want government to assert its powers, go after the illegals, because poster boy Jose killed a pretty white girl in the land of fruits and nuts. Of course government thus empowered would never go after them and we dont stand a chance of getting a libertarian country as long as the socialists from the south infect this bastion of freedom.

Sorry folks, but we have bigger problems than Jose.

We have bigger problems than to be bludgeoned to death by the crowbar of 'democracy'? That's news to me. We don't live in a free country, but we could easily transform into California if the naysayers had their way.

Ender
12-02-2017, 10:42 AM
Might as well.

If western European Enlightenment culture of liberalism, in the true sense of the word, is not worth defending or protecting or promoting, sure, why not.

Call it quits and give it all back.

Or build a new and actual freedom-oriented country instead of an empire that enslaves it's own, while bombing the world.

Raginfridus
12-02-2017, 11:40 AM
"Why throw the gun in the bay?" they asked. Per ABC 7, Garcia Zarate answered, "I thought it was going to continue shooting."
This statement implicated Garcia Zarate after he had initially said he stepped on the gun and it went off. The defendant described finding the gun wrapped in a cloth or t-shirt, insisting he had found it right there, near the pier.
A couple of troubling things arose out of the airing of the confession that are likely to be part of the focus of cross-examination Thursday by defense attorney Matt Gonzalez.
For one, the investigators asked Garcia Zarate multiple times what he was shooting at. At one point he said he was shooting at "a sea animal," as the Chronicle reports (http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Kate-Steinle-killer-s-rambling-account-He-12324625.php), though KQED has him saying "sea lion" and then correcting himself to say, "a black fish." This contradicts other statements that the gun went off accidentally. Garcia Zarate would also say that he thought Steinle, or the woman he hit, was five feet away from him when in fact she was about 90 feet away.https://cdn.someecards.com/someecards/usercards/im-not-saying-youre-a-drunk-but-your-spirit-animal-is-a-tequila-worm-c5d79.png

timosman
12-02-2017, 11:50 AM
Here's the thing - none of those people were holding the fucking gun when it discharged and the issuing bullet went through Kate Steinle's brain.

Ya know, I have tended to hold that you've gotten a bad rap around here... but you're take on this... it's not just disingenuous; it is ignorant. You're making excuses, and they're REACHES, at best. This guy was holding the gun that went off and killed a 32 year old woman. At a MINIMUM, according to YOUR STATE, that is MANSLAUGHTER. A NOT-GUILTY verdict is CLEARLY a POLITICAL ruling.

Try being honest. Just give it a try.

This has NOTHING to do with Zarate's immigration status... that's nonsense, agreed... He is a human being, and she was a human being. This is about being responsible for consequences - we don't get to cause the death of another human being without being held accountable.

Your defense of this guy is just senseless.

This is the liberal defense. HRC was not charged on the same grounds. There simply is no proof there was an intent. Case closed.

Raginfridus
12-02-2017, 12:28 PM
There simply is no proof there was an intent.If California's progressive jurors believed Jose was possessed by devils, perhaps shooting the gun was the intent of an evil spirit inside his body.

Anti Federalist
12-02-2017, 12:46 PM
Or build a new and actual freedom-oriented country instead of an empire that enslaves it's own, while bombing the world.

I would love nothing more to secede and do exactly that.

But it's not going to work if you start with, or import, a population that wants empire or war or Marxism.

Ender
12-02-2017, 01:53 PM
I would love nothing more to secede and do exactly that.

But it's not going to work if you start with, or import, a population that wants empire or war or Marxism.

I don't see that as an immigration problem; I see it as a problem with TPTB dumbing down the populace and then enforcing fear and hate to keep people at each other's throats instead of seeing the Man Behind the Curtain.

Zippyjuan
12-02-2017, 01:58 PM
I don't see that as an immigration problem; I see it as a problem with TPTB dumbing down the populace and then enforcing fear and hate to keep people at each other's throats instead of seeing the Man Behind the Curtain.

We have to blame somebody! Da Joos! Da muslims! Da Immigrants! Then we need to expand the police state to protect honest people from all these criminals here to rob, rape, and kill us! (here is the bill for our services!!)


The 12-term Texas congressman spent the better part of a 25-minute address thinking aloud about the thorny subject. He talked about how Americans are more accepting of outsiders when the economy is good, but when trouble looms there is a search for scapegoats.

"I believe Hispanics have been used as scapegoats, to say, they're the problem instead of being a symptom maybe of a problem with the welfare state," Paul told the group. "In Nazi Germany they had to have scapegoats to blame and they turned on the Jews.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/01/news/la-pn-ron-paul-nevada-latino-forum-20120201

AuH20
12-02-2017, 02:40 PM
I don't see that as an immigration problem; I see it as a problem with TPTB dumbing down the populace and then enforcing fear and hate to keep people at each other's throats instead of seeing the Man Behind the Curtain.

The man behind the curtain wants the population displacement to usher in a servant class.

Zippyjuan
12-02-2017, 02:45 PM
The man behind the curtain wants the population displacement to usher in a servant class.

They have a servant class. It is called the "working class".

AuH20
12-02-2017, 02:51 PM
They have a servant class. It is called the "working class".

And the working class still isn't dumb and servile enough for their liking.

dannno
12-02-2017, 03:20 PM
I don't see that as an immigration problem; I see it as a problem with TPTB dumbing down the populace and then enforcing fear and hate to keep people at each other's throats instead of seeing the Man Behind the Curtain.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtZNXl2WcAAEDGS.jpg

Anti Globalist
12-02-2017, 03:59 PM
Well Trump just won his reelection based on this verdict.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
12-02-2017, 04:24 PM
We have to blame somebody! Da Joos! Da muslims! Da Immigrants!

Da white people! (https://www.whiteprivilegeconference.com/)






Then we need to expand the police state to protect honest people "minorities" from all these criminals whites here to rob, rape, and kill us!


FTFY!

ChristianAnarchist
12-02-2017, 05:54 PM
I would love nothing more to secede and do exactly that.

But it's not going to work if you start with, or import, a population that wants empire or war or Marxism.

If you eliminate all give-away programs that is a good start (and they WILL go away on their own when bankruptcy is realized) and then the immigrants can "pool" their money together to use for a goonerment. Of course #Liberty minded people can also pool their money together to fight against it. I think we would win that one hands down because most of those who "want" something will be too cheap to donate what little they have to get the promise of more money down the road...

Ender
12-02-2017, 07:55 PM
The man behind the curtain wants the population displacement to usher in a servant class.

We already are a servant class- just too dumbed down to know it.

Raginfridus
12-02-2017, 08:19 PM
We already are a servant class- just too dumbed down to know it.
Or happy with it.

timosman
12-02-2017, 08:32 PM
Or happy with it.

It always could have been worse for someone with no skills to speak of.

Weston White
12-02-2017, 11:51 PM
I think it's pretty clear that we're dealing with a poliltically motivated jury here, CA.

People who hold individualist political view points should either organize with intent in California, or they should abandon the territory altogether.

We've witnessed the upending of justice with this finding, in my opinion. This was a trial-by-jury. I'm all for nullification, but these 12 people have obviously - in my view - made a political finding, as opposed to a just finding. And as a consequence, they have inaugurated - whether it is acted upon or not - a vigilantist society.

Speaking personally, I'm okay with that. I'm just not sure most people understand what that means.

I think it was the negligence of the prosecutor, constructive or negligent manslaughter nor other charges, e.g., obstruction of justice (as his ever changing story is indicative that he is hiding other facts from view), was proffered as lesser offenses, the jury can only consider was is on the table.


And yet another one:


Mexican man convicted of kidnapping and sexually abusing two Oregon women GRINS in court and tells their families he'll 'see you in Hell' - as it emerges he'd already been deported TWENTY times before

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5138223/Repeat-Mexican-deportee-sentenced-assault-US.html

GunnyFreedom
12-03-2017, 11:36 AM
I thought that govt. workers use FMJ.

FMJ is required for foreign action by the Geneva Convention. We are allowed to tear our own people to shreds domestically.

phill4paul
12-03-2017, 05:06 PM
So a crazy illegal immigrant and five time deportation loser and a BLM officer that didn't secure his firearm both get off and a citizen is left dead.

'Murica! I can just feel the greatness.

Ender
12-03-2017, 05:54 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtZNXl2WcAAEDGS.jpg

From the late and always spot-on William Grigg:


Heads Up, Mexico

By William Norman Grigg

April 11, 2011

The time has come, insists Representative Michael McCaul (R-Texas), “for the U.S. to show serious commitment to war in our own backyard.”

It’s shamefully narrow-minded of Washington to confer the blessings of humanitarian mass murder on distant Bedouins while ignoring our Mestizo neighbors to the South. McCaul, a former federal prosecutor who now chairs the Homeland Security Subcommittee on Oversight, is eager to help rectify that inequity by designating six Mexican drug syndicates — including Los Zetas, which is led by U.S.-trained military personnel — as “foreign terrorist organizations.”

This would permit deportation or prosecution of anyone providing “support” to the narcotics syndicates. Of course, this wouldn’t apply to the public officials in the United States responsible for the huge narcotics price support program called the “War on Drugs.”

Over the past five years, an estimated 37,000 people have been killed as a result of the U.S.-funded war between the administration of Mexican President Felipe Calderon and various narcotics syndicates. Several months ago, Texas Governor Rick Perry suggested that Washington should invade Mexico for the supposed purpose of ending the violence. The only trivial impediment to that plan, Perry observed, is that Mexico’s government would have to “approve” of the invasion.

As if to answer the question, “What kind of Latin American political figure would `approve’ of a U.S. invasion and occupation of his country?” Colombian-born Washington Post columnist Edward Schumacher-Matos offered a very public endorsement of the proposal.

It’s worth pointing out that between positions with the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal and his present gig at the Post, Schumacher-Matos taught a course at Harvard’s David Rockefeller Center for Latin American studies, which is one of several academic nurseries in which the Establishment cultivates tomorrow’s Quislings.

Schumacher-Matos piously chastises Mexico’s political class for being “too proud to do what they immediately should: Call in the Marines.” Only if Mexican somehow emerge from “their nationalistic stupor” will they see the light of reason and welcome the presence of their new overlords — “American military specialists stationed within [their] borders to help the country build powerful electronic intelligence systems and train modern military and police forces to replace its suffocatingly hierarchical, outdated ones.”

Although Mexico “is our neighbor and supposed longtime ally, the Mexican army has never — never — participated in a joint military exercise with the U.S. military,” Schumacher-Matos points out, inviting us to sorrowful contemplation of the shame of it all. To substantiate the point, he cites a recent study by Roderic Ai Camp of the Woodrow Wilson Center, oblivious to the irony of mentioning Wilson’s name in connection with proposed U.S. military intervention in Mexico.

“What is getting in the way of deeper cooperation with the U.S. military is that the Mexican military, political and intellectual leaders, abetted by U.S. intellectuals, still have their heads in the Mexican and American wars for the 19th century and the Cold War of the 20th,” Schumacher-Matos scolds. “They talk of imperialism and hegemony — which are irrelevant today.”

This isn’t “imperialism” that we’re discussing, insists this Rockefeller-suckled sock puppet: It’s applied humanitarianism of the kind that has turned places like Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Kosovo, and Libya into havens of peace and prosperity.

Elements of Schumacher-Matos’s prescription are a bit outdated. The “electronic intelligence systems” he describes are already operating in Mexico; huge amounts of money are being poured into training and equipping Mexican military and police; and U.S.-trained paramilitaries are actively involved in the Drug War — on both sides of the conflict.

“The U.S. agents generally provide intelligence and training, while Mexicans do the hands-on work,” explains a recent AP dispatch from Mexico City. Brad Barker, president of a “private” mercenary firm called HALO Corporation, told the AP: “Yes, we’re tracking vehicles, yes, we’re tracking people…. There’s been a huge spike in agents down here.”

For the nonce, however, the huge and growing population of U.S. military and intelligence “advisers” infesting Mexico have to “play down” their role, in order “to avoid rubbing nationalist raw spots.”

The division of labor used to maintain the fiction of Mexican independence was displayed in joint operations staged to murder Arturo Beltran-Leyva, the admittedly vicious head of a narcotics operation (an offshoot of the Sinaloa Cartel) he co-founded with his four brothers. On December 11, 2009, a team of U.S.-trained Mexican Special Forces operators, acting on intelligence gathered by their American “advisers,” attacked a Christmas party, slaughtering several guests, wounding numerous others, and terrorizing scores more while Beltran-Leyva fled.

Several days later, U.S. agents tracked the fugitive to an apartment in Cuernavaca. This time 200 Special Forces troops laid siege to the building, surrounding it with tanks and helicopter gunships.

The outcome was predictable, and proudly memorialized in trophy photos of Beltran-Leyva’s dead, mutilated body that were given wide circulation by the Mexican government.

This assassination was hailed as a significant “victory” in Washington’s drug war in Mexico. Indeed, from the perspective of the people who manage that war, it was an ideal victory — the kind that helps perpetuate the conflict, rather than bringing it to an end. As the AP points out, in the year following the killing of Beltran-Leyva, arrests of drug cartel leaders were up, cocaine seizures expanded, and the frequency of drug-related extraditions to the U.S. increased — “and yet, killings jumped to a record high … and more heroin and marijuana are being produced in Mexico and smuggled into the U.S.”

As with all other “successful” government programs, Washington’s narco-war in Mexico is a breeder reactor for larger and even more profitable problems. The escalating violence by Washington and its puppet government in Mexico City is provoking retaliatory violence against American assets.

Washington’s proxy war in Mexico has killed tens of thousands of Mexicans, as well as a small but growing number of U.S. citizens. What really prompted the ire of Rep. McCaul, however, was the murder last February of Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agent Jaime Zapata by a hit team employed by Los Zetas. This episode, in which a Federal Agent was assassinated by a cartel led by U.S.-trained Mexican paramilitaries that led McCaul to demand that Mexican drug syndicates be classified as “foreign terrorist organizations.”

While Mexican President Calderon has "boldly declared war against the cartels,” McCaul declares, “the Mexicans are losing the war — and so are we."

Of course, the most effective way to destroy the criminal syndicates — as a growing number of war-weary Mexicans understand — would be to de-criminalize narcotics, which would mean an immediate end to the grotesquely inflated profits that sustain the cartels.

McCaul and his ilk, however, prefer to take the contrary approach — continued escalation of the conflict with no imaginable end. “We can’t afford a failed state in Mexico, and we must secure our borders,” intones McCaul.

Let’s briefly examine this familiar piece of thought-stopping boilerplate.

Since the housing bubble burst four years ago, immigration from Mexico is down dramatically. The chief threat to “border security” at present is the violence being churned up in Mexico through Washington’s drug war. If the threat of “spillover” narcotics violence is the main problem, ending the drug war is the obvious solution — yet ideologues like McCaul have a way of resisting the obvious.

For those who understand that the state is always and everywhere the chief enemy of liberty, prosperity, and peace, the term “failed state” is a pleonasm. When employed by spokesmen for the Imperial power elite, however, the term is invoked as a prelude to military intervention in order to impose a government-exercised monopoly on force — which in practice has meant becoming local franchises of a U.S.-dominated global political system.

Interventions of this kind are justified as a form of preventive counter-terrorism. Accordingly, whenever U.S. politicians and policy-makers suggest that Mexico is in danger of becoming a “failed state,” they are tuning the atmosphere for even more forceful intervention in that country’s domestic affairs.

It shouldn’t surprise us to learn that a growing number of Mexicans are weary of being on the receiving end of Washington’s armed benevolence.

“We are fed up with this war that nobody asked for,” exclaimed Ciudad Juarez resident Leticia Ruiz, one of thousands of Mexicans who attended protests on April 6 demanding an end to Washington’s drug war in Mexico.

“We’re sick of you politicians,” declared Javier Sicilia, a noted Mexican author whose 24-year-old son was murdered by cartel hit-men. “In this badly planned, badly executed and badly led war, you have put the country into a state of emergency.”

The horrors being visited on Mexicans in this unnecessary war are of little concern to the ruling elite on either side of the border. As Hillary Clinton admitted in a moment of stunning candor, de-criminalization of narcotics and de-escalation in the drug war simply aren’t possible, because there is “too much money” to be made through prohibition. One illustration of this can be seen in the fact that when the global finance system went into cardiac arrest in 2008, laundered narcotics proceeds were the only liquid capital available for inter-bank loans.

Many law enforcement agencies in the United States have become addicted to drug war subsidies, both in the form of funds stolen and redistributed through taxation and in the form of direct highway robbery by way of “asset forfeiture.” The Texas legislature has sought to expand that symbiosis between the criminal underworld and the even more disreputable political “overworld” by expanding the use of highway checkpoints — for seatbelt enforcement, license and insurance inspections, and drug and weapons searches — in order to harvest revenue to make up for shortfalls in tax revenue.

Significantly, Rep. McCaul points out that his proposal to designate drug cartels as “terrorist” organizations would “intensify southbound inspections to seize weapons and cash.” In practice this would mean an escalation in Washington’s unremitting war against privacy and private property.

Rep. McCaul himself illustrates another reason why there is no official interest in ending the drug war. As the Houston Chronicle points out, McCaul “unveiled [his] legislation as he raises his profile in Washington for a possible bid for statewide office” — specifically, the Senate seat being vacated next year by Kay Bailey Hutchison. Being a dutiful drug war drone is a prescription for job security — and in many cases, the key to a lucrative political career. Despite growing public disenchantment with this murderous charade, there is no political profit in working to bring it to an end.

No hyperbole is involved in describing Mexico as another front in the Regime’s war with — well, practically everybody. This is illustrated by the fact that several months ago, beginning with a September 2010 installment of Oliver North’s “War Stories” agitprop series, the Fox News Channel has been referring to the proxy conflict in Mexico as America’s “Third War” (which would mean, of course, that the ongoing campaign in Libya would be the Regime’s fourth war).

Like other spokesmen for the War Party, Rep. McCaul has promoted a unified field theory of global conflict in which Mexico is emerging as a haven for Islamic terrorists bent on destroying the U.S. Although there’s no evidence of an Islamist/Narco-terrorist alliance, undisguised U.S. military intervention in Mexico could conceivably provoke a nationalist backlash that would serve the War Party’s propaganda needs nearly as well.

For decades, some elements of the Right (occasionally abetted by people who should have known better) have peddled the notion that Mexico has created a vast and well-organized “fifth column” within the United States dedicated to La Reconquista — the re-conquest of territories seized by the U.S. during the Mexican-American War.

In this scenario, non-assimilated Mexicans by the millions join in a campaign of violence orchestrated by the Mexican government with the help of foundation-funded anti-American groups on this side of the border.

Whatever revanchist sentiments may exist in Mexico are the residue of Washington’s seizure of roughly half the country through a war of aggression. Washington’s proxy narco-war has done nothing to palliate those feelings. About the only thing that could vindicate the alarmist fantasy of a nationalistic uprising on the part of Mexicans living on the U.S. side of the border would be direct U.S. military intervention in Mexico. I’m just cynical enough to believe that this would be considered a selling point to the people who profit on the misery inflicted by Washington’s drug wars, both here and abroad.

ChristianAnarchist
12-03-2017, 06:34 PM
So a crazy illegal immigrant and five time deportation loser and a BLM officer that didn't secure his firearm both get off and a citizen is left dead.

'Murica! I can just feel the greatness.

Don't hear much about that BLM officer now do we??

phill4paul
12-03-2017, 06:49 PM
Don't hear much about that BLM officer now do we??

Not at all. Despite this whole fuck all, he got an award. boo-yah!

https://www.oathkeepers.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Woychowski-640x381.jpg

Hero.

Occam's Banana
12-03-2017, 10:58 PM
Why was it not an accident? No single witness can say they saw him pointing a gun at anybody.
Most guns don't fire themselves.

But this gun wasn't "most" guns. This gun was a federal cop's gun.

And as anyone familiar with the curious grammar of police shootings (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?455717-The-curious-grammar-of-police-shootings) knows, cop guns have a well-documented tendency to fire themselves ...

Occam's Banana
12-03-2017, 11:04 PM
I have long been of the opinion that if we have to suffer under government it needs to be much smaller and much more locally controlled.
Did your opinion make any dents in the size of the government? Is there anything, short of this lofty goal, worth your attention?
1. No.

2. Sure,, kids, grandkids, work, the old lady, motorcycles, good whiskey and more.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Origanalist again.

Occam's Banana
12-03-2017, 11:53 PM
I have long been of the opinion that if we have to suffer under government it needs to be much smaller and much more locally controlled. So it would depend on local sentiments, not empire issued edicts.
So the answer is: Yes we would need to control immigration to protect freedom from statist barbarians.

I think Origanalist's point (and he can correct me if I am wrong) is along the lines of "who is this 'we' to whom you refer?"

If "we" is the empire, then the answer is a resounding "NO!!" (In this case, "we" already are the "statist barbarians" ...)

Otherwise ...

Montana (for just one example) has far more in common geographically, economically, environmentally, demographically, culturally, etc., etc. with, say, Saskatchewan than it does with Floridia.

What possible sense can it make, then, to subjugate both Montana and Florida to "One Immigration Policy to rule them all" - a policy imposed from on high by a gang of corrupt jackasses in Washington D.C. almost none of whom are from anywhere near either Montana or Florida in the first place? (I mean, if you want to talk about the dangers of alien interlopers having an undue and corrosive influence upon the culture and polity in which you live ... *yeeesh!*)

Origanalist is absolutely right: If we are going to suffer under government, and if it is going to control immigration, far better that it "depend on local sentiments" than upon Sauronian edicts issued from Barad-dûr-on-the-Potomac ...

Origanalist
08-31-2019, 01:35 AM
California appeals court overturns sole conviction in Kate Steinle death

A California state appeals court Friday overturned the lone conviction against an undocumented immigrant who shot and killed Kate Steinle on the San Francisco waterfront in 2015, a case which drew national attention and became a flashpoint in the debate over illegal immigration.

Jose Inez Garcia-Zarate, who was in the U.S. illegally had been deported to his native Mexico five times, was acquitted in November 2017 of first and second-degree murder, involuntary manslaughter, and assault with a semi-automatic weapon. He was convicted of one count of being a felon in possession of a firearm.

On Friday, the 1st District Court of Appeal in San Francisco overturned that conviction because the judge failed to give the jury the option of acquitting Garcia-Zarate on the theory he only possessed the weapon for a moment.

Prosecutors argued that the jury instruction lapse was harmless because Garcia-Zarate admitted firing the gun and experts said he couldn't do so without pulling the trigger. The court disagreed, saying the jury's verdict showed they rejected the prosecution theory that the shooting was intentional or even negligent and they had asked the judge to define possession and whether there was a time requirement for possession.

"These questions go to the heart of the momentary possession defense," Justice Sandra Margulies wrote in the 3-0 decision. "The fact the jury asked whether there was a time requirement for possession suggests jurors were wrestling with how long [the] defendant had the gun."

Garcia-Zarate remains in custody and is facing federal charges of gun possession and being in the country illegally. His attorney, Tony Serra, told The Associated Press that trial is scheduled to begin Jan. 13 and added that the appeals court reversal will give prosecutors the option to re-try Garcia-Zarate.

"That kind of error causes reversals all the time. Then the prosecution has the prerogative of going again," Serra said. "The state case is a heavier case because it's a homicide and a gun. ... It's going to be a big potential decision on what they're going to do."

https://www.foxnews.com/us/kate-steinle-jose-inez-garcia-zarate-california-appeals-court

A Son of Liberty
08-31-2019, 03:05 AM
I think Origanalist's point (and he can correct me if I am wrong) is along the lines of "who is this 'we' to whom you refer?"

If "we" is the empire, then the answer is a resounding "NO!!" (In this case, "we" already are the "statist barbarians" ...)

Otherwise ...

Montana (for just one example) has far more in common geographically, economically, environmentally, demographically, culturally, etc., etc. with, say, Saskatchewan than it does with Floridia.

What possible sense can it make, then, to subjugate both Montana and Florida to "One Immigration Policy to rule them all" - a policy imposed from on high by a gang of corrupt jackasses in Washington D.C. almost none of whom are from anywhere near either Montana or Florida in the first place? (I mean, if you want to talk about the dangers of alien interlopers having an undue and corrosive influence upon the culture and polity in which you live ... *yeeesh!*)

Origanalist is absolutely right: If we are going to suffer under government, and if it is going to control immigration, far better that it "depend on local sentiments" than upon Sauronian edicts issued from Barad-dûr-on-the-Potomac ...

This is such an excellent post. It's a shame it went unreplied.

eleganz
09-03-2019, 12:41 AM
So a crazy illegal immigrant and five time deportation loser and a BLM officer that didn't secure his firearm both get off and a citizen is left dead.

'Murica! I can just feel the greatness.

How very sweden of us...


Other countries must be seeing news like the Steinle verdit and thinking;



why do Americans let illegals rape and kill their women with no punishment?


Its exactly how we view Sweden and their culture of letting their women get raped and doing absolutely nothing about it.


Prosecutor did a piss poor job ejecting San Francisco SJWs off the jury.

Brian4Liberty
09-03-2019, 09:10 AM
How very sweden of us...


Other countries must be seeing news like the Steinle verdit and thinking;





Its exactly how we view Sweden and their culture of letting their women get raped and doing absolutely nothing about it.


Prosecutor did a piss poor job ejecting San Francisco SJWs off the jury.

Competence is not a requirement for a prosecutor in a system where they are almost always guaranteed a victory (unless they want to sabotage their case).