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Ender
10-31-2017, 10:45 PM
Perfect analysis.


Trick or Treat: One Year Later, Is Trump a Blessing or a Curse to the Deep State?

By John W. Whitehead

The Rutherford Institute

November 1, 2017

“Jesus! Where will it end? How low do you have to stoop in this country to be President? … We’ve come to a point where every four years this national fever rises up — this hunger for the Saviour, the White Knight, the Man on Horseback — and whoever wins becomes so immensely powerful … that when you vote for President today you’re talking about giving a man dictatorial power for four years… The whole framework of the presidency is getting out of hand. It’s come to the point where you almost can’t run unless you can cause people to salivate and whip each other with big sticks. You almost have to be a rock star to get the kind of fever you need to survive in American politics.” —Hunter S. Thompson, gonzo journalist

Here’s the question I pose to you: has Donald Trump been a blessing or a curse to the architects of the American police state?

One thing is for sure: a year into his presidency, Trump hasn’t done much to improve the lot of the American people.

The predators of the police state are still wreaking havoc on our freedoms, our communities, and our lives. The government still doesn’t listen to the citizenry, it still refuses to abide by the Constitution, which is our rule of law, and it still treats the citizenry as a source of funding and little else. Police officers are still shooting unarmed citizens and their household pets. Government agents—including local police—are still being armed to the teeth and encouraged to act like soldiers on a battlefield. Bloated government agencies are still fleecing taxpayers. Government technicians are still spying on our emails and phone calls. Government contractors are still making a killing by waging endless wars abroad.

In other words, the American police state is still alive and well and flourishing.

Nothing has changed.

Rather than draining the corrupt swamps of Washington, as he repeatedly promised, Trump and his brand of reality TV politics have merely redirected our attention.

Trust me, the swamps are still stagnant with corruption.

Indeed, we are still the unwitting victims of a system so corrupt that those who stand up for the rule of law and aspire to transparency in government are in the minority. This corruption is so vast it spans all branches of government—from the power-hungry agencies under the executive branch and the corporate puppets within the legislative branch to a judiciary that is, more often than not, elitist and biased towards government entities and corporations.

We are still ruled by an elite class of individuals who are completely out of touch with the travails of the average American.

We are still viewed as relatively expendable in the eyes of government: faceless numbers of individuals who serve one purpose, which is to keep the government machine running through our labor and our tax dollars. Those in power aren’t losing any sleep over the indignities we are being made to suffer or the possible risks to our health. All they seem to care about are power and control.

We are still being made to suffer countless abuses at the government’s hands.

We still have little protection against standing armies (domestic and military), invasive surveillance, marauding SWAT teams, an overwhelming government arsenal of assault vehicles and firepower, and a barrage of laws that criminalize everything from vegetable gardens to lemonade stands.

In the name of national security, we’re still being subjected to government agencies such as the NSA, FBI and others listening in on our phone calls, reading our mail, monitoring our emails, and carrying out warrantless “black bag” searches of our homes. Adding to the abuse, we still have to deal with surveillance cameras mounted on street corners and in traffic lights, weather satellites co-opted for use as spy cameras from space, and thermal sensory imaging devices that can detect heat and movement through the walls of our homes. That doesn’t even begin to touch on the many ways in which our Fourth Amendment rights are still being trampled upon by militarized police and SWAT teams empowered to act as laws unto themselves.

In other words, despite Trump (or because of him), freedom—or what’s left of it—is still being threatened from every direction.

Trump has done nothing to wrest control of the government from the Deep State, that shadowy elite group of powerbrokers and corporations who call the shots in Washington.

Trump has done nothing to prevent the government from continuing to plunder and steal from the American taxpayer. In fact, his administration has paved the way for even more theft in the form of civil asset forfeiture.

Trump has failed to end the government’s endless wars. To the contrary, he has fallen in line with the military industrial complex.

Most of all, Trump has proven to be as deaf, dumb and blind as every president before him when it comes to the plight of the citizenry.

The new boss really is just the same as the old boss.

We’re still on the losing end of a tug-of-war over control of our country and our lives.

The Deep State is winning.

Get ready.

We’re just a few short years away from the dystopian future depicted in the film V for Vendetta, which is no future at all.

Written and produced by the Wachowskis, V for Vendetta (2005) provides a powerful visual commentary on how totalitarian governments such as our own exploit fear and use mass surveillance, censorship, terrorism, and militarized tactics to control, oppress and enslave.

The year is 2027 and the country is ruled by a totalitarian corporate state where concentration camps (jails, private prisons and detention facilities) have been established to house political prisoners and others deemed to be enemies of the state. Executions of undesirables (extremists, troublemakers and the like) are common, while other enemies of the state are made to “disappear.” The television networks are controlled by the government with the purpose of perpetuating the regime. And most of the population is hooked into an entertainment mode and are clueless.

Enter V, a vigilante in a Guy Fawkes mask, who rails against the people’s loss of freedom at the hands of a fascist government. Says V:

Where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who’s to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you’re looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn’t be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic, you turned to the now high chancellor… He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent.

Sounds painfully familiar, doesn’t it?

We, too, have relinquished control over the most intimate aspects of our lives to government officials who, while they may occupy seats of authority, are neither wiser, smarter, more in tune with our needs, more knowledgeable about our problems, nor more aware of what is really in our best interests.

Yet having bought into the false notion that the government knows best and can ensure not only our safety but our happiness and will take care of us from cradle to grave, we have allowed ourselves to be bridled and turned into slaves at the bidding of a government that cares little for our freedoms or our happiness.

The lesson is this: once a free people allows the government to make inroads into their freedoms or uses those same freedoms as bargaining chips for security, it quickly becomes a slippery slope to outright tyranny.

As V remarks, “Since mankind’s dawn, a handful of oppressors have accepted the responsibility over our lives that we should have accepted for ourselves. By doing so, they took our power. By doing nothing, we gave it away. We’ve seen where their way leads, through camps and wars, towards the slaughterhouse.”

In other words, it makes no difference whether it’s a Democrat or a Republican at the helm, because the bureaucratic mindset on both sides of the aisle now embodies the same philosophy of authoritarian government, whose priority is to remain in power.

When our own government no longer sees us as human beings with dignity and worth but as things to be manipulated, maneuvered, mined for data, manhandled by police, conned into believing it has our best interests at heart, mistreated, and then jails us if we dare step out of line, punishes us unjustly without remorse, and refuses to own up to its failings, we are no longer operating under a constitutional republic.

Instead, what we are experiencing is a pathocracy: tyranny at the hands of a psychopathic government.

So where does that leave us?

In V for Vendetta, it takes a desperate act of terrorism (V blows up the seat of government on the fifth of November) for the people to finally mobilize and stand up to the government’s tyranny.

This is what happens when a parasitical government muzzles the citizenry, fences them in, herds them, brands them, whips them into submission, forces them to ante up the sweat of their brows while giving them little in return, and then provides them with little to no outlet for voicing their discontent: people get desperate, citizens lose hope, and lawful, nonviolent resistance gives way to unlawful, violent resistance.

As John F. Kennedy warned, “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”

Do not wait to act until there is no alternative but violence.

As director James McTeigue observed about the tyrannical regime in V for Vendetta, “It really showed what can happen when society is ruled by government, rather than the government being run as a voice of the people. I don’t think it’s such a big leap to say things like that can happen when leaders stop listening to the people.”

What will it take for the government to start listening to the people again?

We’ve got to make them hear us using every nonviolent means available to us: picket, protest, march, boycott, speak up, sound off and reclaim control over the narrative about what is really going on in this country.

Mind you, the government doesn’t want to hear us. It doesn’t even want us to speak. In fact, it’s done a diabolically good job of establishing roadblocks to prevent us from exercising our First Amendment right to speech and assembly and protest.

Still we must persist.

As author Erich Fromm warned in his book On Civil Disobedience, “At this point in history, the capacity to doubt, to criticize and to disobey may be all that stands between a future for mankind and the end of civilization.”

In other words, stop worshipping false idols. Stop waiting for Trump to drain the swamps, or some whistleblower to topple the tyrants, or some other political savior to swoop in and fix all that’s wrong with this country. Stop allowing yourselves to be drawn into divisive party politics. Stop thinking of yourselves as members of a particular political party, as opposed to citizens of the United States. Most of all, stop looking away from the injustices and cruelties and endless acts of tyranny that have become hallmarks of American police state.

As war journalist Chris Hedges concluded, “Not having to make moral choice frees you from a great deal of anxiety. It frees you from responsibility. And it assures that you will always be wrapped in the embrace of the powerful as long as, of course, you will do or dance to the tune the powers play… when you do what is right, you often have to understand that you are not going to be lauded and praised for it. Making a moral decision always entails risks, certainly to one’s career and to one’s standing in the community.”

Remember, remember the fifth of November.

Why should we remember the fifth of November?

Because it commemorates a day in history when a desperate vigilante tried to bring about a violent revolution.

Trust me, no one wants a violent revolution.

Americans speak reverently of how our founders mounted a revolution to secure our freedoms, but our platitudes gloss over the terrible toll it demanded of them: families torn apart, lives lost and years of misery and hardship.

As I make clear in my book Battlefield America: The War on the American People, the moral choice before us is clear: it is the choice between tyranny and freedom, dictatorship and autonomy, peaceful slavery and dangerous freedom, and manufactured pipe dreams of what America used to be versus the gritty reality of what she is today.

Ender
10-31-2017, 10:47 PM
Read to the end.

Swordsmyth
10-31-2017, 10:57 PM
Really? In less than one year he should have undone over a century's worth of damage or he is no better than those who added to that damage at a much faster pace?

Anti Federalist
10-31-2017, 10:57 PM
Where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who’s to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you’re looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn’t be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic, you turned to the now high chancellor… He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent.

Raginfridus
10-31-2017, 11:22 PM
Got news for the revolution: you don't have nukes, satellites, tanks, or mary sue powers. You're fucked.

Who knows? Maybe its still possible to save enough to homestead off grid, if things don't go to complete shit beforehand.

Swordsmyth
10-31-2017, 11:26 PM
Got news for the revolution: you don't have nukes, satellites, tanks, or mary sue powers. You're $#@!ed.

Which is why we must salami slice our way towards our goals while trying to convert the population to our cause.

Raginfridus
10-31-2017, 11:36 PM
Which is why we must salami slice our way towards our goals while trying to convert the population to our cause.Delicatessen? We haven't picked teams yet, and already its another Jewvolution...

Swordsmyth
10-31-2017, 11:38 PM
Delicatessen? We haven't picked teams yet, and already its another Jewvolution...

Their tactics have worked for enslaving us, we should learn to use them to reclaim our freedom.

timosman
11-01-2017, 02:39 AM
Their tactics have worked for enslaving us, we should learn to use them to reclaim our freedom.

The "moral" choices presented to us are just to limit the spectrum of allowable opinions. :cool:

timosman
11-01-2017, 02:45 AM
Read to the end.

Every time you see an authority figure, instead of displaying the usual sycophancy, you should give them a stern look of disapproval. This should give them a hint. :cool:

spudea
11-01-2017, 05:32 AM
I see progress in many areas. Is Trump going to create a libertarian utopia? No of course not. Don't give this writer any credit for stating the obvious as a kind of profound revelation.

shakey1
11-01-2017, 05:52 AM
As usual, JW nails it. The quote from Hunter Thompson is most poignant...


“Jesus! Where will it end? How low do you have to stoop in this country to be President? … We’ve come to a point where every four years this national fever rises up — this hunger for the Saviour, the White Knight, the Man on Horseback — and whoever wins becomes so immensely powerful … that when you vote for President today you’re talking about giving a man dictatorial power for four years… The whole framework of the presidency is getting out of hand. It’s come to the point where you almost can’t run unless you can cause people to salivate and whip each other with big sticks. You almost have to be a rock star to get the kind of fever you need to survive in American politics.”

The bottom line...


Trump has done nothing to wrest control of the government from the Deep State, that shadowy elite group of powerbrokers and corporations who call the shots in Washington.

Trump has done nothing to prevent the government from continuing to plunder and steal from the American taxpayer. In fact, his administration has paved the way for even more theft in the form of civil asset forfeiture.

Trump has failed to end the government’s endless wars. To the contrary, he has fallen in line with the military industrial complex.

Most of all, Trump has proven to be as deaf, dumb and blind as every president before him when it comes to the plight of the citizenry.

The new boss really is just the same as the old boss.

We’re still on the losing end of a tug-of-war over control of our country and our lives.

The Deep State is winning.

:(:mad:

euphemia
11-01-2017, 06:35 AM
People underestimate the power of the deep state if they think Trump a) understands it or b) can do anything about it in 10 months (do the math, folks).

At the same time we may se a dramatically different climate over the next few years. Trump's team seems to be more savvy than they are given credit for. Trump's style continues to be ignored, which is exactly how he likes it.

ChristianAnarchist
11-01-2017, 07:02 AM
People underestimate the power of the deep state if they think Trump a) understands it or b) can do anything about it in 10 months (do the math, folks).

At the same time we may se a dramatically different climate over the next few years. Trump's team seems to be more savvy than they are given credit for. Trump's style continues to be ignored, which is exactly how he likes it.

Give Ron Paul 10 months and see what changes...

As head of the executive there are many things a REAL president could do. He's head of justice, he could end the war on drugs with a nod. He's "commander-in-chief" (although he's only supposed to wear that hat during a real war) and could order the boys home overnight. He could stop that damn Airforce One tomorrow simply by staying home...

And many other things that Ron Paul would have done in his first week...

Influenza
11-01-2017, 07:42 AM
Give Ron Paul 10 months and see what changes...

As head of the executive there are many things a REAL president could do. He's head of justice, he could end the war on drugs with a nod. He's "commander-in-chief" (although he's only supposed to wear that hat during a real war) and could order the boys home overnight. He could stop that damn Airforce One tomorrow simply by staying home...

And many other things that Ron Paul would have done in his first week...

If Ron or anyone else were president and tried to oppose the deep state agenda in a significant way, they would be assassinated within weeks.

shakey1
11-01-2017, 08:06 AM
If Ron or anyone else were president and tried to oppose the deep state agenda in a significant way, they would be assassinated within weeks.

No doubt.

Raginfridus
11-01-2017, 08:10 AM
I nominate @Ender (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=9064) for team captain. @Natural Citizen (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=38270) is screwed.

Our team's got a couple tanks, a new yorker, Clint Eastwood, some extras, and a shriner.

http://www.precision-panzer.moonfruit.com/communities/9/004/006/621/409/images/4598742050.jpg

shakey1
11-01-2017, 08:13 AM
Instead, what we are experiencing is a pathocracy: tyranny at the hands of a psychopathic government.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?513023-Power-Causes-Brain-Damage

EBounding
11-01-2017, 08:57 AM
All the "good" things Trump has done so far would have been done by a Romney. Not impressed at all.

Wooden Indian
11-01-2017, 09:03 AM
In the event of another US civil war, were the government to use tanks and airsttikes in subdivisions and apartment buildings in middle-class suburbia, you can bet your ass Russia, NK, and others would be arming the rebels, and aiding.

Even if the rebels lost, so would the elite.

I'm not saying I would support this, I'm just saying that it wouldn't be a thousand rebels with semiautomatic weapons getting blown up with airsttikes without severe consequences, imo.

Raginfridus
11-01-2017, 09:26 AM
In the event of another US civil war, were the government to use tanks and airsttikes in subdivisions and apartment buildings in middle-class suburbia, you can bet your ass Russia, NK, and others would be arming the rebels, and aiding.

Even if the rebels lost, so would the elite.

I'm not saying I would support this, I'm just saying that it wouldn't be a thousand rebels with semiautomatic weapons getting blown up with airsttikes without severe consequences, imo.I was making an all together different point, like the Rebel Alliance have no chance. Its got nothing to do with counter-insurgency tactics and more to do with the number of children raised to love their government outnumber children who become adults that can think for themselves. Also, paid mercs love killing "terrorists". Its a lost cause; the Rebels could have won 100 years ago but not today. COG wins in every timeline post-1945.

shakey1
11-01-2017, 09:38 AM
Could the armed forces actually bring themselves to fire upon their civilian countrymen in such an event?:eek:

The oath taken by military personnel seems a bit contradictory...


I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

PierzStyx
11-01-2017, 10:01 AM
Could the armed forces actually bring themselves to fire upon their civilian countrymen in such an event?:eek:

The oath taken by military personnel seems a bit contradictory...

Absolutely.

http://s2.thingpic.com/images/eg/myAcKGDVh8cuMXN5jC1Vvn94.jpeg

bunklocoempire
11-01-2017, 11:51 AM
How did this happen? Who’s to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you’re looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid.

Individual courage starts with individual peace.
What gives you peace? What gives your fellow earthling individual peace? What destroys individual peace?
Somebody ain't got individual peace -THAT part is pretty obvious. ;)

Proverbs 29:25
Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is kept safe.

John 14:27
Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled; do not be afraid.

Philippians 4: 4-9
4 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! 5 Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. 6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

8 Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. 9 Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.

Jamesiv1
11-01-2017, 12:36 PM
All the "good" things Trump has done so far would have been done by a Romney. Not impressed at all.
All good things come from Trump. Romney is low energy.

Swordsmyth
11-01-2017, 12:39 PM
All the "good" things Trump has done so far would have been done by a Romney. Not impressed at all.

LOL

jllundqu
11-01-2017, 12:54 PM
Got news for the revolution: you don't have nukes, satellites, tanks, or mary sue powers. You're fucked.

Who knows? Maybe its still possible to save enough to homestead off grid, if things don't go to complete shit beforehand.

I feel like it's a race against the clock, for me. I'm trying like hell to arrange it so I have my land and hobby farm before shit gets really bad... but it takes time... time we may not have.

otherone
11-01-2017, 01:13 PM
Which is why we must salami slice our way towards our goals while trying to convert the population to our cause.

The path to freedom is decentralization, which is opposed by most of our supposed allies on the right.

ds21089
11-01-2017, 01:42 PM
When our own government no longer sees us as human beings with dignity and worth but as things to be manipulated, maneuvered, mined for data, manhandled by police, conned into believing it has our best interests at heart, mistreated, and then jails us if we dare step out of line, punishes us unjustly without remorse, and refuses to own up to its failings, we are no longer operating under a constitutional republic.

Now how do we get people to realize this is the case? :mad:

ds21089
11-01-2017, 01:50 PM
Really? In less than one year he should have undone over a century's worth of damage or he is no better than those who added to that damage at a much faster pace?

Is that an implication that you truly believe Trump is good and is trying to make the country better?

Ok go with that narrative for the sake of argument.. He ran on lessening our overseas footprint. One power the president actually does have as granted by the Constitution is to immediately withdraw troops from anywhere. So what's the excuse as to why he isn't following through with that promise? Not only is he not doing that, but he's encouraging more war.

The few things he's done are completely outweighed by the bad things going on behind the scenes that he is distracting you from. Things he is likely well aware of and doesn't give a crap about. He is just a giant, loud-mouthed distraction. They want you to focus all your attention on attacking or defending Trump meanwhile they keep passing more laws to take away our freedoms.

Surely if Trump was such a good guy, he could use his authoritarian ideology to just executive order his way to a good country. Or are we going to pretend now suddenly when it could be used for good, the "Constitution prevents us from doing such things" as if nearly every action taken by the government now is constitutional..

Swordsmyth
11-01-2017, 01:55 PM
Is that an implication that you truly believe Trump is good and is trying to make the country better?

Ok go with that narrative for the sake of argument.. He ran on lessening our overseas footprint. One power the president actually does have as granted by the Constitution is to immediately withdraw troops from anywhere. So what's the excuse as to why he isn't following through with that promise? Not only is he not doing that, but he's encouraging more war.

The few things he's done are completely outweighed by the bad things going on behind the scenes that he is distracting you from. Things he is likely well aware of and doesn't give a crap about. He is just a giant, loud-mouthed distraction. They want you to focus all your attention on attacking or defending Trump meanwhile they keep passing more laws to take away our freedoms.

Surely if Trump was such a good guy, he could use his authoritarian ideology to just executive order his way to a good country. Or are we going to pretend now suddenly when it could be used for good, the "Constitution prevents us from doing such things" as if nearly every action taken by the government now is constitutional..

My position is that Dump is less bad not that he is good, the ship of state is off course and we must turn it, one degree closer to the correct heading is a victory, Dump is a move in the right direction, now we need to move things farther.

bunklocoempire
11-01-2017, 01:57 PM
Their tactics have worked for enslaving us, we should learn to use them to reclaim our freedom.

An individual is as free as they choose to be.

That's the mind job here. The "enslaved" individual is already serving somebody and will continue to do so until/unless they choose to serve somebody else.

Gotta serve somebody. Starts and ends right there. There isn't really an "our freedom".

Gotta K.I.S.S. for myself. Saves me a lotta grief.:D


The "moral" choices presented to us are just to limit the spectrum of allowable opinions. :cool:
+ rep

ds21089
11-01-2017, 01:59 PM
My position is that Dump is less bad not that he is good, the ship of state is off course and we must turn it, one degree closer to the correct heading is a victory, Dump is a move in the right direction, now we need to move things farther.

But the reality is that we arent going any closer in the right direction. If you read the above article and research how accurate it is, it completely shows you how nothing has changed for the better and in fact in most cases just getting worse. I see no evidence that Trump has taken one step toward correcting anything thus far. As I stated above, there are a few things the president can do without congressional approval that would benefit us that he hasn't done. So he has absolutely no excuse for breaking that promise. Which only goes to show you that he is more of the same - listening to the same people Obama and previous presidents listened to.

Swordsmyth
11-01-2017, 02:04 PM
But the reality is that we arent going any closer in the right direction. If you read the above article and research how accurate it is, it completely shows you how nothing has changed for the better and in fact in most cases just getting worse. I see no evidence that Trump has taken one step toward correcting anything thus far. As I stated above, there are a few things the president can do without congressional approval that would benefit us that he hasn't done. So he has absolutely no excuse for breaking that promise. Which only goes to show you that he is more of the same - listening to the same people Obama and previous presidents listened to.

He has done some things that are good, I would never claim he has done everything he could, but to pretend that he is no better than what we have been getting or what most of the other 2016 candidates (especially Hitlery) would have done is just ignorant or dishonest.

ds21089
11-01-2017, 02:11 PM
He has done some things that are good, I would never claim he has done everything he could, but to pretend that he is no better than what we have been getting or what most of the other 2016 candidates (especially Hitlery) would have done is just ignorant or dishonest.

I will agree to that, but that doesn't mean I'm going to defend the slightly less evil person. They are still evil after all. I will still be highly critical of them and expect of them what a REAL president is supposed to do.

LibertyEagle
11-01-2017, 02:31 PM
All the "good" things Trump has done so far would have been done by a Romney. Not impressed at all.

Romney would have been all in on TPP and any other multinational trade deal. He also would not have cut regulations, or any other damn thing. Do you think Rand would have Romney's ear?

ChristianAnarchist
11-01-2017, 03:41 PM
If Ron or anyone else were president and tried to oppose the deep state agenda in a significant way, they would be assassinated within weeks.

There is no doubt the deep state would try to kill him. I think he's smart enough to know that and to take appropriate precautions (yes, they do exist).

nikcers
11-01-2017, 04:05 PM
Romney would have been all in on TPP and any other multinational trade deal. He also would not have cut regulations, or any other damn thing. Do you think Rand would have Romney's ear?

Whats to stop them from putting the same kind of stuff in NAFTA that was bad in TPP? I hope you are right and TPP is gone, but to me it seems like they are playing a shell game with unpopular policy.

Swordsmyth
11-01-2017, 04:11 PM
Whats to stop them from putting the same kind of stuff in NAFTA that was bad in TPP? I hope you are right and TPP is gone, but to me it seems like they are playing a shell game with unpopular policy.

NAFTA will soon be dead.

ChristianAnarchist
11-01-2017, 05:34 PM
NAFTA will soon be dead.

You actually believe there will be change??? I said the same thing to trump people when they were so orgasmic about him winning. Wait until he's been in office 6 months and then show me all his accomplishments. Been right so far...

You keep waiting and hoping. I've been waiting and hoping for 50 years now and I'm not putting false faith in these guys anymore. "The State" will keep growing and keep destroying liberty and you will just wind up paying for all the bills...

Krugminator2
11-01-2017, 06:00 PM
You actually believe there will be change??? I said the same thing to trump people when they were so orgasmic about him winning. Wait until he's been in office 6 months and then show me all his accomplishments. Been right so far...

You keep waiting and hoping. I've been waiting and hoping for 50 years now and I'm not putting false faith in these guys anymore. "The State" will keep growing and keep destroying liberty and you will just wind up paying for all the bills...

I thought Trump would be catastrophically bad given his prior liberalism, anti-free trade agenda, and his initial push for a massive infrastructure project. All three of those things have gone away.

Instead the country is objectively freer under Trump. Neil Gorsuch is on the court. That is a big swing from Hillary appointing Ruth Bader Ginsburg Part II. If Republicans hold the Congress, Trump will likely pick a replacement for Clarence Thomas. It would be a huge win if Trump gets to replace Ginsburg.

Scott Pruitt is waging an all out war at the EPA. Some great articles on what he is doing and the amount of death threats he is receiving. https://www.wsj.com/articles/keeping-scott-pruitt-safe-1509578717 http://www.nationalreview.com/article/453320/scott-pruitt-vs-environmental-lynch-mob

We are going to get a corporate tax cut that is in line with the rest of the world along with a small income tax cut. Trump didn't take the bait and get the US involved in a meaningful way in Syria. Trump already is the best modern President on regulatory issues, perhaps the best ever.

I guess I have very low expectations and Trump has easily cleared them. I am quite certain a Mitt Romney or Hillary Clinton Presidency wouldn't have Mick Mulvaney in charge of the budget or have Rand Paul with a major influence on their thinking.

Anti Federalist
11-01-2017, 06:02 PM
I thought Trump would be catastrophically bad given his prior liberalism, anti-free trade agenda, and his initial push for a massive infrastructure project. All three of those things have gone away.

Instead the country is objectively freer under Trump. Neil Gorsuch is on the court. That is a big swing from Hillary appointing Ruth Bader Ginsburg Part II. If Republicans hold the Congress, Trump will likely pick a replacement for Clarence Thomas. It would be a huge win if Trump gets to replace Ginsburg.

Scott Pruitt is waging an all out war at the EPA. Some great articles on what he is doing and the amount of death threats he is receiving. https://www.wsj.com/articles/keeping-scott-pruitt-safe-1509578717 http://www.nationalreview.com/article/453320/scott-pruitt-vs-environmental-lynch-mob

We are going to get a corporate tax cut that is in line with the rest of the world along with a small income tax cut. Trump didn't take the bait and get the US involved in a meaningful way in Syria. Trump already is the best modern President on regulatory issues, perhaps the best ever.

I guess I have very low expectations and Trump has easily cleared them.

Yeah, this.

I remain cautiously optimistic.

kcchiefs6465
11-01-2017, 06:08 PM
Yeah, this.

I remain cautiously optimistic.
Indeed. And if rendition and a suspension of habeus corpus for those the US government declares enemy combatants is to be normalized, well, you have to hammer a few nails to build a wall.

I wonder, if the Bundy’s took the refuge while Donald Trump was president, what would his reaction be?

ChristianAnarchist
11-01-2017, 06:12 PM
Yeah, this.

I remain cautiously optimistic.

I remain recklessly pessimistic...

Appointing people to positions doesn't cut it. I want to see results. My taxes are still sky high. When do I get "relief"? There's nothing on the horizon...

The coal thing is good but I don't expect a lot of regulation to "go away"... There might be some adjustments in certain EPA numerical values but they will still send a goonsquad to take your property if you violate their dictates.

ChristianAnarchist
11-01-2017, 06:15 PM
Indeed. And if rendition and a suspension of habeus corpus for those the US government declares enemy combatants is to be normalized, well, you have to hammer a few nails to build a wall.

I wonder, if the Bundy’s took the refuge while Donald Trump was president, what would his reaction be?

You've got to be kidding, right? With the Trumpster's attitude to anyone who doesn't toe his line you have to ask?? He would stomp his feet and say NO ONE has the right to step on "federal land" and take possession. Wait until something similar happens while he's there. He is not your friend, friend...

Krugminator2
11-01-2017, 06:42 PM
My taxes are still sky high. When do I get "relief"? There's nothing on the horizon...



If by nothing nothing on the horizon, you mean you have to wait until tomorrow, I guess. https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/01/tax-reform-plan-republican-infighting-244418

Small individual tax cut and a corporate tax cut.


There might be some adjustments in certain EPA numerical values but they will still send a goonsquad to take your property if you violate their dictates.

Pruitt actually isn't enforcing a lot of laws which is driving the left into rabid insanity. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/opinion/contributors/epa-rule-of-law-pruitt.html

Swordsmyth
11-01-2017, 07:53 PM
You actually believe there will be change??? I said the same thing to trump people when they were so orgasmic about him winning. Wait until he's been in office 6 months and then show me all his accomplishments. Been right so far...

You keep waiting and hoping. I've been waiting and hoping for 50 years now and I'm not putting false faith in these guys anymore. "The State" will keep growing and keep destroying liberty and you will just wind up paying for all the bills...

We have already gotten mixed results out of Trump, I see strong indications that NAFTA will soon be gone.

I would choose someone better for POTUS if I could but we won't get that chance until 2020 and then only if someone better runs.

nikcers
11-01-2017, 09:01 PM
We have already gotten mixed results out of Trump, I see strong indications that NAFTA will soon be gone.

I would choose someone better for POTUS if I could but we won't get that chance until 2020 and then only if someone better runs.
Mixed results? What we have is cherry picking facts that are fake news. The goalpost keeps getting moved but it doesn't matter, they will find the number 23 because they are obsessed with it. Pretty soon arguments will get even more stupid because it will be close enough to the election. So when you say that you don't support Trump because Afghanistan, or because anything they are going to just tell you its because you're some secret democrat. There will be no honest discussion of Trumps policy because his supporters still won't admit he is not wearing clothes, you really can't argue facts with those people.

Swordsmyth
11-01-2017, 09:03 PM
Mixed results? What we have is cherry picking facts that are fake news. The goalpost keeps getting moved but it doesn't matter, they will find the number 23 because they are obsessed with it. Pretty soon arguments will get even more stupid because it will be close enough to the election. So when you say that you don't support Trump because Afghanistan, or because anything they are going to just tell you its because you're some secret democrat. There will be no honest discussion of Trumps policy because his supporters still won't admit he is not wearing clothes, you really can't argue facts with those people.

Or with you some days.

nikcers
11-01-2017, 09:05 PM
Or with you some days.
I see what you did there.

nikcers
11-01-2017, 09:24 PM
NAFTA will soon be dead.
I sort of wish that were the case, but this is just negotiations, and threatening to pull out of a deal is the oldest sales tactic in the books. In reality they really don't like Canada undercutting us on taxes. They don't even put call centers in India anymore, they put them in Canada. They don't want companies moving to Canada to get a tax cut, and they don't want to have to give companies a tax cut to stop them.

ChristianAnarchist
11-01-2017, 09:40 PM
Three years from now there will still be NAFTA (or something by another name that does the same), we will still be at war - somewhere stupid, Obamacare will be with us (with maybe a few lines of regulations changed), I will still be in the 30+% income tax bracket (when you add state and local it comes closer to 45%), and you guys will still be giving Trump a virtual blow job...

Swordsmyth
11-01-2017, 09:44 PM
I sort of wish that were the case, but this is just negotiations, and threatening to pull out of a deal is the oldest sales tactic in the books. In reality they really don't like Canada undercutting us on taxes. They don't even put call centers in India anymore, they put them in Canada. They don't want companies moving to Canada to get a tax cut, and they don't want to have to give companies a tax cut to stop them.

Canada and Mexico are insisting on things Trump will not agree to and Trump is insisting on things they will not agree to, even if it was not the intent originally NAFTA is highly likely to end.

Ender
11-01-2017, 09:45 PM
You've got to be kidding, right? With the Trumpster's attitude to anyone who doesn't toe his line you have to ask?? He would stomp his feet and say NO ONE has the right to step on "federal land" and take possession. Wait until something similar happens while he's there. He is not your friend, friend...

Pretty sure that was kcchiefs6465's flavor of sarcasm. ;)

ChristianAnarchist
11-01-2017, 09:51 PM
Pretty sure that was @kcchiefs6465 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=38829)'s flavor of sarcasm. ;)

Darn sarcasm anyway... Sometimes I miss it.

Slave Mentality
11-02-2017, 05:48 AM
The ship is indeed turning the wrong direction and its too big to avoid the rocks. I choose to watch as an unwilling participant and try to plant the seeds of liberty wherever I can in my life.

Liberty and individual freedom lives within us all. Even in our current virtual cage. Don't be their prisoners fighting each other for scraps and perceived respect. We need an escape plan.

Talks of liberty have mostly become arguments over a man around here. What will he do next? This is exactly what they want. Open your eyes.

ChristianAnarchist
11-02-2017, 07:51 AM
The ship is indeed turning the wrong direction and its too big to avoid the rocks. I choose to watch as an unwilling participant and try to plant the seeds of liberty wherever I can in my life.

Liberty and individual freedom lives within us all. Even in our current virtual cage. Don't be their prisoners fighting each other for scraps and perceived respect. We need an escape plan.

Talks of liberty have mostly become arguments over a man around here. What will he do next? This is exactly what they want. Open your eyes.

Just sit back and watch the freak show...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9CjBtv7j78


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8O_CcGhLD8

EBounding
11-02-2017, 10:04 AM
Romney would have been all in on TPP and any other multinational trade deal. He also would not have cut regulations, or any other damn thing. Do you think Rand would have Romney's ear?

Yes, I think he would have had just as much influence with Romney as he does with Trump. Maybe even more effective since Rand would be the leading anti-establishment politician in Washington.

I'm personally ambivalent about TPP so that's why I didn't consider it, but sure I'll give Trump credit for that.

nikcers
11-02-2017, 07:15 PM
Yes, I think he would have had just as much influence with Romney as he does with Trump. Maybe even more effective since Rand would be the leading anti-establishment politician in Washington.

I'm personally ambivalent about TPP so that's why I didn't consider it, but sure I'll give Trump credit for that.

Trump didn't understand TPP but that doesn't stop his supporters from understanding. Just like Rand Paul said in the debates the TPP was about combating the petroyen. Which is ironic because Trump ran on an anti Chinese trade platform. Now we all know candidates aren't always honest about their real platform. So what's his real position on trade with China? He has continued the war against the yen, the same policies Obama started, his administration has threatened to ban China from access to the petrodollar he is doing the same policies that were pushing China into creating the petroyen and leading us into war with China.

Danke
11-02-2017, 07:21 PM
Trump didn't understand TPP but that doesn't stop his supporters from understanding. Just like Rand Paul said in the debates the TPP was about combating the petroyen. Which is ironic because Trump ran on an anti Chinese trade platform. Now we all know candidates aren't always honest about their real platform. So what's his real position on trade with China? He has continued the war against the yen, the same policies Obama started, his administration has threatened to ban China from access to the petrodollar he is doing the same policies that were pushing China into creating the petroyen and leading us into war with China.


Yen = Japanese currency

nikcers
11-02-2017, 07:40 PM
Yen = Japanese currency
blarg I meant Petro-yuan but my auto correct kept typing zippyjuan

Swordsmyth
11-02-2017, 08:37 PM
Trump didn't understand TPP but that doesn't stop his supporters from understanding. Just like Rand Paul said in the debates the TPP was about combating the petroyen. Which is ironic because Trump ran on an anti Chinese trade platform. Now we all know candidates aren't always honest about their real platform. So what's his real position on trade with China? He has continued the war against the yen, the same policies Obama started, his administration has threatened to ban China from access to the petrodollar he is doing the same policies that were pushing China into creating the petroyen and leading us into war with China.

The TPP was about binding us down under more globalist trans-national unaccountable government.

nikcers
11-02-2017, 09:00 PM
The TPP was about binding us down under more globalist trans-national unaccountable government. It was about ending corporations fleeing the American tax code without lowering taxes, binding American corporate assets to America, ending the intellectual property flood overseas. When we started propping up the Chinese government beepers were made in China and cost very little to manufacture but were priced at hundreds of dollars. The creator of the Chinese Amazon tells heartwarming stories about how he saved up for months to buy a beeper.