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Brian4Liberty
10-31-2017, 04:40 PM
New York terror attack: Eight dead as truck runs down cyclists in suspected terror attack by man shouting 'Allahu Akbar'


The FBI is treating a truck attack in New York, in which eight people died and 15 were injured, as an act of terrorism.

An attacker drove a rented truck down a bike path in Manhattan a few blocks from the site of the World Trace Center memorial.

According to witnesses people on bikes were left scattered on the path and the attacker then rammed a school bus.

Some witnesses said he then got out of the truck screaming "Allahu Akbar". He wielded two guns, which police later said were fake.

Witnesses said they initially thought the attack was a Halloween prank.

The suspect was chased by police who shot him in the leg and arrested him. They said they were not seeking anyone else in connection with the attack.
...
More: https://www.yahoo.com/news/york-shooting-several-people-reported-193751347.html

Raginfridus
10-31-2017, 04:43 PM
Maybe the breaks went out...

We'll know the truth when the President tweets us.

goldenequity
10-31-2017, 04:48 PM
Abe Lincoln was a salafist?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNf3jauX4AAyZxk.jpg:large




925466814389334016

phill4paul
10-31-2017, 04:57 PM
Earlier reports said he "opened fire." Blanks? WTF is the point?

oyarde
10-31-2017, 05:00 PM
Why does Allah hate Home Depot and Cyclists ?

oyarde
10-31-2017, 05:04 PM
Also , how do they know not to seek conspirators ? Did the FBI give him a home depot card ?

spudea
10-31-2017, 05:06 PM
Just part and parcel of living in a big city. The solution is barriers of peace and love! /s

https://www.barbourproductsearch.info/ATG%20Access%20Defender%20bollard%20High%20Securit y%20Barrier-file036761.jpg

Brian4Liberty
10-31-2017, 05:17 PM
The media loves to call these attacks a "lone wolf" attack. Purely an attempt at political correctness. If an organization or nation is at war, and is instructing the members or followers of that group to engage in attacks, there is no "lone" about the attack.

Now the media has conflicting agendas at work here. In order to be politically correct, and push the leftist globalist narrative, they don't want to blame any particular group. On the other hand, the neoconservative side of the media wants to infer blame on groups that are not involved, thus they will use the blanket term of Islam.

But to be accurate and specific, modern terrorist attacks in Europe and the US are by Salafi jihadists (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafi_jihadism), which is a subset of Sunni Islam, thus it does not apply to all Muslims, does not apply to Shias, does not apply to all Sunni's and does not apply to all Salafists (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafi_movement).

Who does it apply to? Wahhabism is a subset of Salafism. The best examples of practitioners of the terrorist brand of Salafi Jihadist Islam are ISIS and Al-Qaeda. Saudi Arabia is officially Wahhabist, so the radicalized jihadi version often has connections to that nation, although Salafism is a transnational movement. Additionally, the Muslim Brotherhood sometimes refer to themselves as Salafists, which is probably a way for them to claim greater numbers internationally.

Bottom line: don't expect any accuracy in reporting from the media, who have their own agendas that require them to be intentionally vague.

Zippyjuan
10-31-2017, 05:18 PM
No word on his religion other than allegedly saying "Allahu Akbar". He is supposedly a 29 year old from Uzbekistan, Sayfullo Saipov, and came to the US in 2010 and was living in Florida.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/31/us/new-york-shots-fired/index.html


The suspect in the New York attack is from the central Asian nation of Uzbekistan and came to the United States in 2010, two law enforcement sources told CNN. A Tampa, Florida, address is connected to him.

He has a pellet gun and a paint gun- perhaps he wanted to get killed. He wasn't killed but was shot and is in the hospital.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Gunshots-Fired-Lower-Manhattan-Tribeca-454316613.html


The crash into the school bus appeared to be deliberate; witnesses told police they saw the driver swerve the truck to target the bus, which was carrying children. They said the driver then screamed "Allah' akbar" in the truck, then emerged carrying what turned out to be two fake guns -- a pellet gun and a paint gun -- and started running around before he was confronted by a nearby uniformed officer on patrol, who shot him in the abdomen.

RJB
10-31-2017, 05:22 PM
He should have just let Protestants and Catholics duke it out on the 500th anniversary of the Reformation.

Jamesiv1
10-31-2017, 05:23 PM
Build the Wall.

Brian4Liberty
10-31-2017, 05:42 PM
The media has an answer for everything.


Earlier reports said he "opened fire." Blanks? WTF is the point?

Per CNN, the guns weren't real, but if they had been, a whole lot more people would have been killed! Ban guns!


Build the Wall.

Again, per CNN, travel bans and walls would not help, because he was already here.

Anti Federalist
10-31-2017, 05:44 PM
Well, I guess I can look forward to more restrictions on renting a car or truck.

RJB
10-31-2017, 05:47 PM
Well, I guess I can look forward to more restrictions on renting a car or truck.
But it's an exchange to have the freedom to be culturally enriched.

Zippyjuan
10-31-2017, 05:54 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/dead-truck-plows-people-york-city-cowardly-act/story?id=50842052


A uniformed police officer was credited with stopping the carnage.


At Chambers Street, the truck collided with a school bus, injuring two adults and two children, police said.

After the collision, the truck driver exited the vehicle brandishing what appeared to be two handguns, police said. A uniformed police officer confronted the suspect and shot him in the abdomen, police said.


A paintball gun and a pellet gun were recovered at the scene, police said.

Officer saved everybody from the paintball carnage? A bus stopped the truck.

phill4paul
10-31-2017, 05:58 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/dead-truck-plows-people-york-city-cowardly-act/story?id=50842052







Officer saved everybody from the paintball carnage? A bus stopped the truck.

Sounds like suicide by cop.

Zippyjuan
10-31-2017, 06:03 PM
Truck plates indicated it was rented in New Jersey though source is not traced yet- where or when. Suspect lived in Florida.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/31/nyregion/nyc-shooting-truck-attack.html


• Federal law enforcement authorities took the lead in the investigation. Two law enforcement officials said that investigators discovered handwritten notes in Arabic near the truck that indicated allegiance to the Islamic State.


Officials called it a terrorist attack, but Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said at a briefing, “There’s no evidence that suggests a wider plot or a wider scheme.” He said the episode was “the action of one individual who meant to cause pain and harm and probably death, and the resulting terror.” The New York police commissioner, James P. O’Neill, added, “This incident is over.”


• The driver was identified as Sayfullo Saipov, 29. He was shot in the abdomen and was in critical condition on Tuesday night. The authorities said he came to the United States in 2010 and was a permanent legal resident.

oyarde
10-31-2017, 06:06 PM
Why do not Uzbek Wahhabis just run over people over there ? Surely they can find someone to hate without traveling to Florida and NY ?

Brian4Liberty
10-31-2017, 06:18 PM
He should have just let Protestants and Catholics duke it out on the 500th anniversary of the Reformation.

Related:


Besides, various “reform” movements have already emerged in the Muslim world in the past two centuries. Just like Luther’s Reformation, these movements claimed to go back to the scriptural roots of the religion to question the existing tradition. While some of the reformists took this step with the intention of rationalization and liberalization, giving us the promising current called “Islamic modernism,” others did it with the exact opposite goal of dogmatism and puritanism. The latter trend gave us Salafism, including its Saudi version Wahhabism, which is more rigid and intolerant than the traditional mainstream. And while most Salafis have been non-violent, violent ones formed the toxic blend called “Salafi Jihadism,” which gave us the savagery of al-Qaeda and the Islamic State.
...
More: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/muslim-reformation/544343/

Interesting article, although it's conclusion that more statism and benevolent monarchies is the solution to radical Salafi-jihadism may rub some people the wrong way. Chalk that up to the relationship of the US (and Israeli) establishment with Saudi Arabia and Jordan.

sparebulb
10-31-2017, 06:21 PM
http://static-26.sinclairstoryline.com/resources/media/28d6339b-3a66-4f2a-a410-d7bebca862ae-large16x9_AP17304772079791.jpg

Could simply be a "guerilla" marketing campaign to advertise Home Depot's $19 truck rental.

RJB
10-31-2017, 06:28 PM
http://static-26.sinclairstoryline.com/resources/media/28d6339b-3a66-4f2a-a410-d7bebca862ae-large16x9_AP17304772079791.jpg

Could simply be a "guerilla" marketing campaign to advertise Home Depot's $19 truck rental.

I hope he paid for the insurance. I don't think Home Depot will just let him walk away from that.

Brian4Liberty
10-31-2017, 06:40 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/31/nyregion/nyc-shooting-truck-attack.html


Officials called it a terrorist attack, but Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said at a briefing, “There’s no evidence that suggests a wider plot or a wider scheme.” He said the episode was “the action of one individual who meant to cause pain and harm and probably death, and the resulting terror.” The New York police commissioner, James P. O’Neill, added, “This incident is over.”

And what's the point in quoting that part?

sparebulb
10-31-2017, 06:40 PM
I hope he paid for the insurance. I don't think Home Depot will just let him walk away from that.

You've got to hand it to this guy.

Even if he paid the extra $8 for insurance, that comes to a measly $3.38 per life taken.

He is going to get a bonus from his bosses for coming in way under budget.

I guess the Al-CIAda is doing their part to bring the budget under control.

ChristianAnarchist
10-31-2017, 07:02 PM
This looks like one of those scary "assault trucks". The compact version that can be wielded easily in a crowd. I think it's time for banning all assault trucks!!!

Brian4Liberty
10-31-2017, 07:04 PM
Why do not Uzbek Wahahabis just run over people over there ? Surely they can find someone to hate without traveling to Florida and NY ?

Blowback.

US via Saudi Arabia nurtured radical Salafism in the area to counter the Soviets. Then they turned on US. Uzbek jihadists align themselves with al-Qaeda and the Taliban.

Brian4Liberty
10-31-2017, 07:07 PM
This looks like one of those scary "assault trucks". The compact version that can be wielded easily in a crowd. I think it's time for banning all assault trucks!!!

And it had a bumper...

ChristianAnarchist
10-31-2017, 07:20 PM
Again this story doesn't make sense. The guy kills people, walks around with fake guns (actually I'm surprised the goonsquad let him live), and his friend says this guy is a nice guy who plays with his kids and helps people. There's no "radicalization" or ties that seem to exist. There's no hatred expressed by him towards others. Of course as time goes by I'm sure the CIA can "fix" these problems. They can fabricate his ties and his posts that don't exist about how he wants to be part of ISIS...

Of course they need to kill him while in custody to make sure there's no loose ends they can't deal with...

Anti Federalist
10-31-2017, 07:51 PM
And it had a bumper...

A bumper stock, and one of those things that flip up.

milgram
10-31-2017, 07:51 PM
"Iran is the largest exporter of terror"

AZJoe
10-31-2017, 07:56 PM
NBC reports (https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/What-We-Know-About-Suspect-Battery-Park-City-Tribeca-Terror-454320243.html) he left note claiming the purpose of his assault and murders were for ISIS.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNgZwQEVAAADGX1.jpg

Anti Federalist
10-31-2017, 07:57 PM
But it's an exchange to have the freedom to be culturally enriched.

I know, I can feel the diversity.

Literally.

This guy was brought here on a "diversity visa" to culturally enrich us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_Immigrant_Visa

KEEF
10-31-2017, 08:01 PM
Well, I guess I can look forward to more restrictions on renting a car or truck.
You must spread some Reputation around before...

So true!

Anti Federalist
10-31-2017, 08:07 PM
And in the VA governor's race, the socialists were running an attack ad showing a white guy in a diesel pickup and Confederate flag running down Latino, black and Muslim kids.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVckRJvuBQY

timosman
10-31-2017, 08:16 PM
925481913522855936

euphemia
10-31-2017, 09:00 PM
My daughter's family just moved away from that sewer town. My son in-law used to ride his bike on that path regularly.

euphemia
10-31-2017, 09:04 PM
Truck plates indicated it was rented in New Jersey though source is not traced yet- where or when. Suspect lived in Florida.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/31/nyregion/nyc-shooting-truck-attack.html

Zippy, why is it even relevant where he lived? Tampa is full of Muslims, just so you know. Dude killed 8 people. Why does it matter whether it was an isolated incident or not? It was a deliberate act of evil. It looks the same as other attacks that have happened other places. Gosh. Have some compassion on the dead and their families instead of trying to argue everything into the sewer. Do you not feel slimy the way you are pimped out to make money off of the horrible things that happen to people?

kahless
10-31-2017, 09:49 PM
‘This is sick’! NYT columnist HAMMERED after spinning NYC attack as win for gun control
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2017/10/31/this-is-sick-nyt-columnist-hammered-after-spinning-nyc-attack-as-win-for-gun-control/

TheTexan
10-31-2017, 09:52 PM
Maybe the breaks went out...

We'll know the truth when the President tweets us.

Thank you.

Just because he said "Allahu Akbar", people automatically jump to the conclusion he's some kind of Muslim extremist.

devil21
10-31-2017, 09:57 PM
The solution to prevent these kinds of attacks is to only allow self-driving cars!

Fortunately, NYC just allowed them. What luck!

Oh, and LOL@perp's name. A lil Reformation 500th anniversary humor.

kahless
10-31-2017, 10:33 PM
The solution to prevent these kinds of attacks is to only allow self-driving cars!

Fortunately, NYC just allowed them. What luck!

Oh, and LOL@perp's name. A lil Reformation 500th anniversary humor.

Give it 10 years and for average people that is all that will be allowed in the city, unless you are a business that has enough money to pay for a special medallion.

ChristianAnarchist
10-31-2017, 10:37 PM
And in the VA governor's race, the socialists were running an attack ad showing a white guy in a diesel pickup and Confederate flag running down Latino, black and Muslim kids.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVckRJvuBQY

The "Don't tread on me" front license place was a nice touch...

devil21
10-31-2017, 10:39 PM
Give it 10 years and for average people that is all that will be allowed in the city, unless you are a business that has enough money to pay for a special medallion.

I'd bet on much sooner than 10 years.

kahless
10-31-2017, 11:07 PM
Terror suspect was a ‘very friendly’ Uzbek immigrant who drove for Uber
http://nypost.com/2017/10/31/terror-suspect-was-a-very-friendly-uber-driver/

What is it with Uber.

Brian4Liberty
10-31-2017, 11:12 PM
Give it 10 years and for average people that is all that will be allowed in the city, unless you are a business that has enough money to pay for a special medallion.


Terror suspect was a ‘very friendly’ Uzbek immigrant who drove for Uber
http://nypost.com/2017/10/31/terror-suspect-was-a-very-friendly-uber-driver/

What is it with Uber.

Thank goodness he was a certified and bonafide driver who had been fully screened. Only the best extreme vetting will keep us all safe!

ChristianAnarchist
11-01-2017, 06:50 AM
Terror suspect was a ‘very friendly’ Uzbek immigrant who drove for Uber
http://nypost.com/2017/10/31/terror-suspect-was-a-very-friendly-uber-driver/

What is it with Uber.

Yup, doesn't add up. Likely some kind of patsy. Drugged maybe and remotely driven van?? Where are all the hatred-filled moozlims who want to kill us for our freedoms??

shakey1
11-01-2017, 08:03 AM
And in the VA governor's race, the socialists were running an attack ad showing a white guy in a diesel pickup and Confederate flag running down Latino, black and Muslim kids.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVckRJvuBQY

WTF?

Suzanimal
11-01-2017, 08:40 AM
Why does Allah hate Home Depot

Probably bought one of their shit weed wackers.


and Cyclists ?

Who hasn't been tempted to take one out?:confused:

Jamesiv1
11-01-2017, 09:41 AM
Again, per CNN, travel bans and walls would not help, because he was already here.
yeah.... but going forward we could do a lot better.

I think its just one more example of why we need to be a lot more particular about who we let into our country.

The DJ Trumpmaster D is spot on with this issue.

CaptUSA
11-01-2017, 09:55 AM
yeah.... but going forward we could do a lot better.

I think its just one more example of why we need to be a lot more particular about who we let into our country.

The DJ Trumpmaster D is spot on with this issue.

:rolleyes:

There are always risks associated with living in a (semi)free society. Those risks are incredibly small compared to the risks of living in the police state it would take to prevent such attacks.

Anti Federalist
11-01-2017, 10:04 AM
The "Don't tread on me" front license place was a nice touch...

I thought so as well.

Looked just like my truck.

But hey, the bright side is all the wogs will haul ass as soon as they see me coming, amirite?

Anti Federalist
11-01-2017, 10:06 AM
WTF?

Some Latino activist group was running that ad against Gillespie in the VA gov's race.

Word is that it got pulled, but not until it ran for a week or so.

enhanced_deficit
11-01-2017, 10:12 AM
Blowback.

US via Saudi Arabia nurtured radical Salafism in the area to counter the Soviets. Then they turned on US. Uzbek jihadists align themselves with al-Qaeda and the Taliban.

Uzbeks were part of US allies in the "great Islamic Jihad" against Soviets and Uzbekistan's "liberation" came about thanks to US support for Islamic militants fighting against Soviet infidels in the then Soviets states.
From earlier reports, Uzbek minority in Afghanistan generally had been US allies and part of minorities collection that US has been training to fight Taliban that used to be mostly Pashtun ethnically. But some of Uzbeks apparently had also joined Al Qaeda/ISIS groups to fight their "great jihad" again in Iraq, Syria but only against different "infidels".

For those with interest in history, a very brief snapshot from MSM news:


http://static.snopes.com/app/uploads/2016/03/ronald-reagan-taliban-800x452.jpg





US loses partner in terror war with death of Uzbekistan's leader Islam Karimov

By Ryan Browne, CNN
September 3, 2016

Story highlights



Uzbekistan's only ruler since its independence had been a US ally
Karimov had sought to curb Russian influence in the region


Washington (CNN)The death of Uzbekistan President Islam Karimov could pose serious challenges for the US in areas such as counterterrorism and could become another flash point in the contentious US-Russia relationship.

Since 9/11, Uzbekistan has been at times critical to US foreign policy objectives in Central and South Asia, including in Afghanistan and in efforts to curb Russian influence in the region. Here's a look at some of the key ways Karimov's death could affect the US.

Afghanistan

A onetime Soviet official, Karimov had led Uzbekistan since before that country's independence from the Soviet Union in 1991, making him one of the longest-serving rulers in the world.
After achieving statehood, Uzbekistan wanted independence from Russia and sought out relationships with the West. But there was "a certain level of disinterest" on the part of the US, Olga Oliker, the director of the Russia and Eurasia Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, told CNN.
It wasn't until the 9/11 terror attacks, when Washington was trying to gain the cooperation of countries near Afghanistan during its fight against al Qaeda and the Taliban, that US-Uzbekistan relations became an important element of American foreign policy.
Karimov backed the US-led intervention in Afghanistan, as he also saw the Taliban and al Qaeda as Uzbekistan's enemies. He previously backed the Northern Alliance, which had fought the Taliban during the 1990s and were key allies in the US operation to oust the Taliban.
Karimov let US forces use Uzbekistan's airspace and Karshi-Khanabad airbase to support operations in Afghanistan, with which it shares an 85-mile-long border.

But in 2005, Karimov kicked the US personnel out after the George W. Bush administration condemned a violent crackdown by Uzbek security forces against protesters in the city of Andijan. The State Department's 2015 human rights report on Uzbekistan said security officials reportedly killed "at least 187 unarmed civilians" in an event that has been described as the biggest attack on demonstrators since Tiananmen Square in 1989.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/02/politics/islam-karimov-death-us-uzbekistan-relations/index.html




Related

http://images.slideplayer.com/23/6611733/slides/slide_75.jpg



McCain defends ''Allahu Akbar' shouts in Syria

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5HRb_T0lts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5HRb_T0lts
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5HRb_T0lts)

Days after Kissinger warned against removing ISIS, it claims Spain Van attack killing 13 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?514132-Days-after-Kissinger-warned-against-removing-ISIS-it-claims-Spain-Van-attack-killing-13&)

Anti Federalist
11-01-2017, 10:14 AM
:rolleyes:

There are always risks associated with living in a (semi)free society. Those risks are incredibly small compared to the risks of living in the police state it would take to prevent such attacks.

Problem is, most people don't look at it that way, and will happily give up freedom to keep themselves "safe".

I would happily shut down all immigration, legal and illegal, especially if they bring nothing of worth to the table as far as skills, if for nothing else but to pacify the moiling mob so they don't burn down what little of our freedom is left.

dannno
11-01-2017, 10:17 AM
And it had a bumper...

Looks like a stock bumper.

Anti Federalist
11-01-2017, 10:19 AM
Probably bought one of their shit weed wackers.

Who hasn't been tempted to take one out?:confused:

Yah, OK, I'm laughing now. :D

enhanced_deficit
11-01-2017, 10:19 AM
And in the VA governor's race, the socialists were running an attack ad showing a white guy in a diesel pickup and Confederate flag running down Latino, black and Muslim kids.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVckRJvuBQY

Seems like left wing Dems are at their games again.
And very bad timing.

Anti Federalist
11-01-2017, 10:35 AM
See, this is what I'm talking about.

There is no reason, none, to specifically import a bunch a third world "diversity" from Somalia or Trashcanistan.

Unless, of course, your plan is to radically alter the demographic makeup of the country and forever change what it was.


Plan to Ax ‘Diversity Visa’ Used by NYC Terror Suspect Has Been Sitting in GOP-Led Congress for Months

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/01/plan-to-ax-diversity-visa-used-by-nyc-terror-suspect-has-been-sitting-in-gop-led-congress-for-months/

by John Binder1 Nov 2017Washington, D.C.872

Sitting in the GOP-led House is legislation that would do nothing else but immediately eliminate the Diversity Visa Lottery, the visa program used by the New York City terror suspect to enter the United States in 2010.

Rep. Bill Posey (R-FL) introduced the SAFE for America Act to end the Diversity Visa Lottery in March, but not even the House Judiciary Committee has taken the bill up for consideration yet.

The Diversity Visa Lottery gives out 50,000 visas every year to foreign nationals from a multitude of countries, including those with known terrorist problems – such as Afghanistan, Algeria, Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, Libya, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Syria, Trinidad and Tobago, Venezuela, Yemen, and Uzbekistan.

Under Posey’s legislation, the visa program would be ended with no further changes to the immigration system. But, House and Senate Republicans could attempt to tie an amnesty for illegal aliens to Posey’s legislation, though that plan would likely be opposed by President Trump’s America First voter base.

The co-sponsors for ending the Diversity Visa Lottery include:

Rep. Goodlatte (R-VA)
Rep. Hensarling (R-TX)
Rep. Farenthold (R-TX)
Rep. Duncan (R-TN)
Rep. Smith (R-TX)
Rep. Marchant (R-TX)
Rep. Gosar (R-AZ)
Rep. Babin (R-TX)
Rep. Graves (R-GA)
Rep. Hice (R-GA)
Rep. Brooks (R-AL)
Rep. Brat (R-VA)

According to ABC New York, 29-year-old Sayfullo Saipov — the man who allegedly mowed down pedestrians and killed at least eight individuals in the Tribeca neighborhood of New York City — entered the U.S. in 2010 from Uzbekistan under the Diversity Visa Lottery before obtaining a Green Card.

Sen. Tom Cotton (R-AR) and Sen. David Perdue’s (R-GA) legal immigration-cutting RAISE Act legislation — endorsed by Trump — also seeks to end the Diversity Visa Lottery, as does Trump’s 70-point immigration priorities agenda.

CaptUSA
11-01-2017, 10:42 AM
Problem is, most people don't look at it that way, and will happily give up freedom to keep themselves "safe".

I would happily shut down all immigration, legal and illegal, especially if they bring nothing of worth to the table as far as skills, if for nothing else but to pacify the moiling mob so they don't burn down what little of our freedom is left.

:(

Except that you don't get your liberty piecemeal. By "shutting down all immigration", you are giving more power to the very state that is taking away what little freedom you have left. You either have to embrace liberty with the risks that come with it, or embrace tyranny with the false claim of security. We don't need MOAR state to restrict people from moving, or tracking us all, or moar restrictions on truck rentals, or moar surveillance, or any of that. Just more liberty. But with that, comes an acceptance that very few people will create havoc.

Brian4Liberty
11-01-2017, 11:11 AM
:(

Except that you don't get your liberty piecemeal. By "shutting down all immigration", you are giving more power to the very state that is taking away what little freedom you have left. You either have to embrace liberty with the risks that come with it, or embrace tyranny with the false claim of security. We don't need MOAR state to restrict people from moving, or tracking us all, or moar restrictions on truck rentals, or moar surveillance, or any of that. Just more liberty. But with that, comes an acceptance that very few people will create havoc.

Except that the majority of those who want open and unfettered immigration into the US love the Nanny-state, in every way possible. Are you just as aggressively and adamantly debating them on every single instance of government?

I see a lot of "OMG, we can't stop people from immigrating to the US!", yet on most other aspects of government it's either "we need government to do that" or "eh, nothing we can do about that".

enhanced_deficit
11-01-2017, 11:20 AM
:(
..
We don't need MOAR state to restrict people from moving, or tracking us all, or moar restrictions on truck rentals, or moar surveillance, or any of that. Just more liberty. But with that, comes an acceptance that very few people will create havoc.


To absorb all the side effcts of recent decades foreign freedom projects and interventions in almost every continent around the globe , a robust and intrusive domestic militarized police state is almost an essential requirement.

Anti Federalist
11-01-2017, 11:35 AM
To absorb all the side effcts of recent decades foreign freedom projects and interventions in almost every continent around the globe , a robust and intrusive domestic militarized police state is almost an essential requirement.

Where "diversity" is widespread, the only thing that can keep everybody from each other's throats is a heavy handed police state.

kahless
11-01-2017, 11:44 AM
Yup, doesn't add up. Likely some kind of patsy. Drugged maybe and remotely driven van?? Where are all the hatred-filled moozlims who want to kill us for our freedoms??

No, he is the real deal. What I meant in that last post was another story that does not bode well for Uber PR.

NYC Truck Attacker is Bragging About Killings And ISIS Strength While In The Hospital...
http://www.newsweek.com/nyc-attacker-bragging-hospital-isis-698399

donnay
11-01-2017, 11:46 AM
Thank goodness he was a certified and bonafide driver who had been fully screened. Only the best extreme vetting will keep us all safe!

He probably took driving lessons in Florida. <s>

Brian4Liberty
11-01-2017, 11:51 AM
Yup, doesn't add up. Likely some kind of patsy. Drugged maybe and remotely driven van??

Uh, no.

kahless
11-01-2017, 11:54 AM
:(

Except that you don't get your liberty piecemeal. By "shutting down all immigration", you are giving more power to the very state that is taking away what little freedom you have left. You either have to embrace liberty with the risks that come with it, or embrace tyranny with the false claim of security. We don't need MOAR state to restrict people from moving, or tracking us all, or moar restrictions on truck rentals, or moar surveillance, or any of that. Just more liberty. But with that, comes an acceptance that very few people will create havoc.

How does stopping people coming here from terrorist nations, "taking away what little freedom you have left"? By not stopping our enemies from immigrating here you will accelerate people to demand and government provide the very thing we are against.

Anti Federalist
11-01-2017, 01:47 PM
:(

Except that you don't get your liberty piecemeal. By "shutting down all immigration", you are giving more power to the very state that is taking away what little freedom you have left. You either have to embrace liberty with the risks that come with it, or embrace tyranny with the false claim of security. We don't need MOAR state to restrict people from moving, or tracking us all, or moar restrictions on truck rentals, or moar surveillance, or any of that. Just more liberty. But with that, comes an acceptance that very few people will create havoc.

Yup, agreed.

We can get rid of all that.

Lets just not invite in people dedicated to destroying liberty and creating havoc.

otherone
11-01-2017, 01:56 PM
Thank you.

Just because he said "Allahu Akbar", people automatically jump to the conclusion he's some kind of Muslim extremist.

I dunno, pal. Even typing it is sketchy.
You've been noticed.

TheTexan
11-01-2017, 02:37 PM
I dunno, pal. Even typing it is sketchy.
You've been noticed.

I'm not worried, I have nothing to hide.

Unlike most people here.

kahless
11-01-2017, 02:41 PM
Yup, agreed.

We can get rid of all that.

Lets just not invite in people dedicated to destroying liberty and creating havoc.

How do you propose "getting rid of" the state function to "restrict people from moving" here from terrorist nations?

If you oppose controls on immigration then like I said above you will accelerate people to demand and for government provide the very things domestically that you are against - restrictions on American citizens.

Swordsmyth
11-01-2017, 02:53 PM
Trump Will Ask Congress to End Green-card Lottery Programhttps://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/01/trump-will-ask-congress-to-end-green-card-lottery-program.html

Anti Federalist
11-01-2017, 02:58 PM
How do you propose "getting rid of" the state function to "restrict people from moving" here from terrorist nations?

If you oppose controls on immigration then like I said above you will accelerate people to demand and for government provide the very things domestically that you are against - restrictions on American citizens.

I took that to mean US citizens freely moving about the country, without TSA gate rapes and Constitution free zones and 24/7 surveillance.

euphemia
11-01-2017, 03:40 PM
In my opinion, the diversity visa is unconstitutional. The Constitution guarantees equal protection under the law, and any law that prefers a special group of people does not provide equal protection for all.

Adding: This would be a good place to start on repealing laws. If a law prefers any specific groups of people, it should be repealed on Constitutional grounds.

ChristianAnarchist
11-01-2017, 03:49 PM
Where "diversity" is widespread, the only thing that can keep everybody from each other's throats is a heavy handed police state.

Not quite. Everyone carrying a weapon is a better alternative. Do you have your pocket backup ready?

ChristianAnarchist
11-01-2017, 03:52 PM
No, he is the real deal. What I meant in that last post was another story that does not bode well for Uber PR.

NYC Truck Attacker is Bragging About Killings And ISIS Strength While In The Hospital...
http://www.newsweek.com/nyc-attacker-bragging-hospital-isis-698399

Is he the real deal?? I'm sure we will never know for sure. The media lies, the goonerment lies, who are we supposed to take as "truth" in what is being said about this guy? Talk now going around that he's to be treated as a "enemy combatant" and you know what that means... There will be ZERO information about this guy but what the goonerment wants you to have. It's OK though, I'm sure your goonsquad would never lie about what he says or what he did...

euphemia
11-01-2017, 03:55 PM
Not quite. Everyone carrying a weapon is a better alternative. Do you have your pocket backup ready?

A weapon is not always the answer. There is no weapon that would have helped in Las Vegas, and no weapon that would have helped people caught unaware on a pedestrian and bike path yesterday. At some point the liberty of American citizens has to be considered higher than some guy who has been training for jihad over in Iraq or whatever.

oyarde
11-01-2017, 03:56 PM
Police announce today second man is sought in connection to attack . So it was a conspiracy .

ChristianAnarchist
11-01-2017, 03:57 PM
I took that to mean US citizens freely moving about the country, without TSA gate rapes and Constitution free zones and 24/7 surveillance.

Most of the southern border and even more of the northern boarder is wide open. Ever seen the "border" of North Dakota with Canada? There are some neat posts every so many yards with "Canada" written on one side and "USA" written on the other side. There's no way you can ever "secure" this country. Why not just let the movement towards arming the people take care of any imagined problem? There's no way "terrorism" can be a problem if everyone is armed...

Brian4Liberty
11-01-2017, 03:58 PM
Problem is, most people don't look at it that way, and will happily give up freedom to keep themselves "safe".

I would happily shut down all immigration, legal and illegal, especially if they bring nothing of worth to the table as far as skills, if for nothing else but to pacify the moiling mob so they don't burn down what little of our freedom is left.

But the 23 people he brought with him via chain migration have probably gone through extreme vetting, so nothing to see there. Not sure what they brought to the table, would be interesting to find out out what forms of government assistance they have received.


Saipov immigrated to the United States from Uzbekistan. The president said preliminary reports indicate he was "the primary point of contact for 23 people who came in with him."

"And that's not acceptable," Trump said. "So we want to get rid of chain migration, and we've wanted to do that for a long time."
...
More: https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2017/11/01/Trump-asks-Congress-to-end-diversity-visa-lottery-chain-migration/8211509557582/

Brian4Liberty
11-01-2017, 04:00 PM
Police announce today second man is sought in connection to attack . So it was a conspiracy .

Can't be. Almost everyone on TV and radio said that he was a "lone wolf". He came up with this all by himself.

ChristianAnarchist
11-01-2017, 04:02 PM
A weapon is not always the answer. There is no weapon that would have helped in Las Vegas, and no weapon that would have helped people caught unaware on a pedestrian and bike path yesterday. At some point the liberty of American citizens has to be considered higher than some guy who has been training for jihad over in Iraq or whatever.

Wrong in both cases. Yes, there would be deaths in each case but there would be fewer of them. If the bubba's in Vegas had their high powered deer rifles in their car they could have (and would have) returned fire. Would they hit him? Maybe not. Would they hit innocent bystanders? There's a chance some people might get hit in that tower (if that's really where most of the shots came from). On the bike path anyone with a gun could have stopped this guy.

Now how do you say that weapons are not the answer again?

Swordsmyth
11-01-2017, 04:04 PM
Most of the southern border and even more of the northern boarder is wide open. Ever seen the "border" of North Dakota with Canada? There are some neat posts every so many yards with "Canada" written on one side and "USA" written on the other side. There's no way you can ever "secure" this country. Why not just let the movement towards arming the people take care of any imagined problem? There's no way "terrorism" can be a problem if everyone is armed...

We should arm our citizens and bring the boys back home to patrol the borders.

Danke
11-01-2017, 04:05 PM
Wrong in both cases. Yes, there would be deaths in each case but there would be fewer of them. If the bubba's in Vegas had their high powered deer rifles in their car they could have (and would have) returned fire. Would they hit him? Maybe not. Would they hit innocent bystanders? There's a chance some people might get hit in that tower (if that's really where most of the shots came from). On the bike path anyone with a gun could have stopped this guy.

Now how do you say that weapons are not the answer again?


I think in both cases an RPG would've been better to defend yourself and others.

bunklocoempire
11-01-2017, 04:07 PM
The msm cable newz cordially invites you to a non-stop feargasm.

The powers that be encourage you to continue to worship the idea of an unshackled government, an idea of a government that has once again failed to provide anything but an over-priced reaction.

oyarde
11-01-2017, 04:07 PM
Can't be. Almost everyone on TV and radio said that he was a "lone wolf". He came up with this all by himself.

The conspirator has a handle of Mukhhammadzoir Kadirov ,believed to be in the US , a friend , sought by FBI for questioning of his prior knowledge of the plan . Anyway , I am pretty sure he is not midwestern .

Brian4Liberty
11-01-2017, 04:08 PM
"Iran is the largest exporter of terror"

Perfect neocon-speak, comrade! Don't forget that he visited North Korea and also had a personal meeting with Putin. We can't say that it was Russia, but the evidence is so overwhelming that there is no doubt.

/s

phill4paul
11-01-2017, 04:16 PM
I think in both cases an RPG would've been better to defend yourself and others.

But, then how could we laud a "hero cop" that took down a bad guy with a paintball and pellet gun?

bunklocoempire
11-01-2017, 04:28 PM
Radicalized by empire. People lose their lives.

Empire's solution to this?

Empire Strong

And all the people go "YAY! More of that!"

euphemia
11-01-2017, 04:58 PM
Do some reading about forced marriages. It's not just about controlling who sneaks over the border, it's about protecting the process and the people.

ChristianAnarchist
11-01-2017, 05:29 PM
Do some reading about forced marriages. It's not just about controlling who sneaks over the border, it's about protecting the process and the people.

I don't care about forced marriages. This is not in the realm of "goonerment". If you have someone living near you and they are abusing some woman step in and help her out. Don't ask for me to give up my liberty and property to allay your fears... I'm sick of collectivism...

kahless
11-01-2017, 06:30 PM
I don't care about forced marriages. This is not in the realm of "goonerment". If you have someone living near you and they are abusing some woman step in and help her out. Don't ask for me to give up my liberty and property to allay your fears... I'm sick of collectivism...

You will care about their belief system when the people coming here outnumber you and yours, at that point you will be living under their collectivist form of government whether you like it or not.

otherone
11-01-2017, 07:01 PM
A weapon is not always the answer. There is no weapon that would have helped in Las Vegas, and no weapon that would have helped people caught unaware on a pedestrian and bike path yesterday. At some point the liberty of American citizens has to be considered higher than some guy who has been training for jihad over in Iraq or whatever.

:confused: What does this mean?

kcchiefs6465
11-01-2017, 07:14 PM
:confused: What does this mean?
Isn’t it obvious?

Freedom v. security.

Many would prefer to feel secure than to be free.

otherone
11-01-2017, 07:26 PM
Isn’t it obvious?

Freedom v. security.

Many would prefer to feel secure than to be free.

But she wrote "liberty": At some point the liberty of American citizens has to be considered higher

kcchiefs6465
11-01-2017, 07:28 PM
But she wrote "liberty": At some point the liberty of American citizens has to be considered higher
It’s a Brave New World.

Liberty isn’t being free, it’s being alive- i.e safe.

kahless
11-01-2017, 07:30 PM
Isn’t it obvious?

Freedom v. security.

Many would prefer to feel secure than to be free.

I read the last two posts and it makes me wonder if the terrorist had an RPF account.

How is it making a logical decision to not import jihadists that want to kill us mean we want less freedom? :confused::confused::confused:

otherone
11-01-2017, 07:36 PM
I read the last two posts and it makes me wonder if the terrorist had an RPF account.

How is it making a logical decision to not import jihadists that want to kill us mean we want less freedom? :confused::confused::confused:

How does not wanting to be killed have anything to do with protecting your liberty?

Mikezelot
11-01-2017, 07:55 PM
Capitalism is the only solution. He lived here for 7 years and without looking into I would bet he had no job.

A lot harder for someone to be involved in this when they work 40 hours a week.

Consumerism > isis

kahless
11-01-2017, 08:24 PM
Capitalism is the only solution. He lived here for 7 years and without looking into I would bet he had no job.

A lot harder for someone to be involved in this when they work 40 hours a week.

Consumerism > isis

Reports say he had worked as a commercial truck driver, ran a trucking business and then ended up at Uber for the last 6 months making 1400 trips.

AZJoe
11-01-2017, 08:56 PM
‘This is sick’! NYT columnist HAMMERED after spinning NYC attack as win for gun control
https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2017/10/31/this-is-sick-nyt-columnist-hammered-after-spinning-nyc-attack-as-win-for-gun-control/

OMG on the irrational madness of some people. The idiot thinks "but for NYC's gun control, Saipov would have killed more."
Because mass murdering Saipov (who is not even a NYC resident) is such a law abiding citizen he would certainly obey the NYC ordinance.
Its more like - but for NYC's victim disarmament policy, Saipov would not have been able to keep running over so many pedestrians and bikers.

Mikezelot
11-01-2017, 09:38 PM
Reports say he had worked as a commercial truck driver, ran a trucking business and then ended up at Uber for the last 6 months making 1400 trips.

I stand corrected

ChristianAnarchist
11-01-2017, 09:42 PM
You will care about their belief system when the people coming here outnumber you and yours, at that point you will be living under their collectivist form of government whether you like it or not.

No, actually I won't. If it were ever to get that dire (and I really doubt that it ever will) I will simply kill some of them until they kill me. It's the old wild west way and some of us still "get it"...

Swordsmyth
11-01-2017, 09:47 PM
No, actually I won't. If it were ever to get that dire (and I really doubt that it ever will) I will simply kill some of them until they kill me. It's the old wild west way and some of us still "get it"...

The joys of tribal warfare.

ChristianAnarchist
11-01-2017, 09:48 PM
OMG on the irrational madness of some people. The idiot thinks "but for NYC's gun control, Saipov would have killed more."
Because mass murdering Saipov (who is not even a NYC resident) is such a law abiding citizen he would certainly obey the NYC ordinance.
Its more like - but for NYC's victim disarmament policy, Saipov would not have been able to keep running over so many pedestrians and bikers.

Another reason I don't believe the fake news on this. Why would a guy who's been in the country for many years run people over in a truck and then walk around with fake guns?? Like it's hard to by REAL GUNS??? You expect me to believe this guy is some kind of bad ass terrorist and he can't figure out how to get some guns in the US of A??

It's FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE!!!

ChristianAnarchist
11-01-2017, 09:50 PM
The joys of tribal warfare.

I'll take tribal warfare over goonerment goonsquad warfare any day...

Feeding the Abscess
11-03-2017, 12:57 AM
I took that to mean US citizens freely moving about the country, without TSA gate rapes and Constitution free zones and 24/7 surveillance.

How do you determine citizenship status of those traveling without expanded TSA highway checks/Constitution free zones and 24/7 surveillance?

Brian4Liberty
11-06-2017, 07:33 PM
How do you determine citizenship status of those traveling without expanded TSA highway checks/Constitution free zones and 24/7 surveillance?

Those have never been necessary in the past to enforce a variety of laws. When it comes up, then it is checked. If someone reports something, then it might get checked. If there is a murder, it doesn't mean that every home in a 100 mile radius needs to be searched for the murder weapon.