A California city is launching the first US experiment in basic income

[Swordsmyth]

Stockton, California is expected to become the first US city to launch an experiment in universal basic income, a system of wealth distribution in which people receive a set amount of money just for being alive.
Stockton Mayor Michael Tubbs said that by August 2018 he hopes to enroll an undisclosed number of Stockton's 315,000 residents in the program. Tubbs said the experiment — which is set to hand out $500 a month, or $6,000 a year — would ideally last for a period of three years.

More at: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/california-city-launching-first-us-221700733.html

CALExit!

[r3volution 3.0]

I'm going to go ahead and predict, with respect to the results of the experiment, that people will like free money.

And that the people who have given them free money will get reelected.

https://img.geocaching.com/cache/large/632e4f53-c96d-4d5b-bedd-40b4eb89b57b.jpg

[Weston White]

History teaches us that we are to learn from it so that we thus not commit the same errors in the future. Stupid asses.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-stockton-bankruptcy/stockton-california-files-for-bankruptcy-idUSBRE85S05120120629

[anaconda]

I'm going to go ahead and predict, with respect to the results of the experiment, that people will like free money.

And that the people who have given them free money will get reelected.



I'll predict that the Stockton taxpayers will abruptly move out of the city limits.

[nobody's_hero]

I'll predict that the Stockton taxpayers will abruptly move out of the city limits.

Sometimes I think California taxpayers have some form of battered wife syndrome. That weather must be really nice to put up with this stuff from their government and not pack their shit up and leave. That whole state should have turned into Detroit a long time ago, but it's the stubbornness of people who seem content to be parasite-infected hosts who keep it breathing.

[Root]

What happens when they run out of other people's money?

[Raginfridus]

What happens when they run out of other people's money?The fed print more.

[Root]

The fed print more.
Not for a city in CA they won’t.

[The Gold Standard]

Not for a city in CA they won’t.

To prop up this experiment, they will.

[Mordan]

i support it. But they should create a crypto currency for it. so every penny of those 500 are trackable.

[euphemia]

This the same Stockton that practically bankrupted the city while the fat cats were cutting themselves big checks?

[Raginfridus]

Goygle's calling Stockton "America's Most Miserable City" of 2013, so maybe there's a correlation in there somewhere. Could dangling "free" money be the tricks bankrupt States play, when the people are miserable enough to ignore them but not angry enough to revolt?

[Brian4Liberty]

Stockton was a major destination for poor people from Oakland and other Bay Area locations when they were being gentrified and converted into ethnic enclaves. Also a destination for gang-bangers from south of the border. This will revitalize the city! :rolleyes:

[Brian4Liberty]

3 years ago, Stockton, California, was bankrupt. Now it's trying out a basic income.


Next year, a random sample of the 300,000 residents of Stockton, a port city in California’s Central Valley, will get $500 per month ($6,000 a year) with no strings attached.

It’s the latest test of a policy known as basic income, funded not out of city revenues but by individual and foundation philanthropy. The first $1 million in funding comes from the Economic Security Project, a pro-basic income advocacy and research group co-chaired by Facebook co-founder and former New Republic publisher Chris Hughes and activists Natalie Foster and Dorian Warren; Hughes provided the group’s initial funding. Stockton Mayor Michael Tubbs hopes to launch the basic income project as early as August 2018.

The project — known as the Stockton Economic Empowerment Demonstration (SEED) — will be, in a way, the purest expression to date of Silicon Valley’s passion for basic income proposals, which many tech entrepreneurs and investors see as a necessary way to support Americans if artificial intelligence and other automation advances lead to unemployment for vast swaths of the population.

To the tech world, basic income is a way to redistribute the vast wealth that Silicon Valley creates to poorer people and localities left behind. And what better place to start than by redirecting part of a Facebook fortune to Stockton, an overwhelmingly nonwhite exurb of the Bay Area that became the largest city in the US to declare bankruptcy during the financial crisis?

An hour and half from San Francisco (if traffic is forgiving) and thus boasting the longest commute times in America, Stockton is tantalizingly close to big tech and its wealth, but just far enough away to experience significantly lower incomes and a higher poverty rate than San Francisco, San Jose, or Oakland.

Tubbs is particularly well-suited to be the policy’s champion. Upon winning the mayoral election last year, he became both Stockton’s first black mayor and, at 26, the youngest mayor of a city of more than 100,000 people in American history. Tubbs cites as his inspiration Martin Luther King Jr., who called for a guaranteed minimum income in his last book, Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community?, as well as his own experience “growing up in poverty and seeing how much of some of the stress came from trying to stretch dollars to pay for necessities, like bills or school uniforms. When things came up unexpectedly it would cause a lot of hardships.”
...
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/18/16479796/stockton-california-basic-income-economic-security-experiment

[timosman]

An inexperienced mayor will be in charge of doling out almost $2B? :rolleyes:

[shakey1]

The fed print more.

Then why should us lowly taxpayers need to be taxed at all?

[timosman]

Then why should us lowly taxpayers need to be taxed at all?

It is a way to remind you about the role you play in your relationship with the almighty government. Without it, you might forget about it. It also a great job program. Think about the number of people who make a living scrutinizing the income of Joe Sixpack. :rolleyes:

[shakey1]

It is a way to remind you about the role you play in your relationship with the almighty government. Without it, you might forget about it. It also a great job program. Think about the number of people who make a living scrutinizing the income of Joe Sixpack. :rolleyes:

If I'm to be taxed, then I'll need my own printing press to make the money to pay for it... what's good for the goose, an' all.;)

[CaptUSA]

I can support a UBI. But ONLY as a replacement for ALL other forms of welfare.

[Raginfridus]

If I'm to be taxed, then I'll need my own printing press to make the money to pay for it... what's good for the goose, an' all.;)
http://images.mocpages.com/user_images/3344/1428958698m_SPLASH.jpg

You might want to think about moving.

[Influenza]

I can support a UBI. But ONLY as a replacement for ALL other forms of welfare.
Yea, seems better if this were to replace the other welfare programs. At least this way there would be less bureaucracy (hopefully)

[CaptUSA]

Yea, seems better if this were to replace the other welfare programs. At least this way there would be less bureaucracy (hopefully)

EITC is a form of a UBI, (so this isn't really a "first"), but they never use it as a replacement - only as an addendum. Which is just stupid and pointless.

[not.your.average.joe]

I can support a UBI. But ONLY as a replacement for ALL other forms of welfare.

I support a UBI of $0 AND the abolition of ALL other forms of welfare.

[Swordsmyth]

How long will it take all the homeless to move there?

[phill4paul]

How long will it take all the homeless to move there?

And tax payers to move out.

[Brian4Liberty]

And tax payers to move out.

That's already been happening. How many Silicon Valley crony Fabians does it take to fund one town's UBI? The funny thing about extraordinarily wealthy people is that they will get something like this started, then they want the mundanes to pay for it afterwards,

[anaconda]

Sometimes I think California taxpayers have some form of battered wife syndrome. That weather must be really nice to put up with this stuff from their government and not pack their $#@! up and leave. That whole state should have turned into Detroit a long time ago, but it's the stubbornness of people who seem content to be parasite-infected hosts who keep it breathing.

Part of the thing that puzzles me is that Stockton is over in the agricultural economy of the Central Valley and so, while I don't know, it doesn't seem like it would necessarily be terribly liberal. Although there's probably a lot of Mexican workers and a small handful of wealthy people.

On the other hand, Stoctkon got whacked in the housing meltdown, and according to Wiki, was the second largest U.S. city to declare bankruptcy at that time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockton,_California

[anaconda]

Yea, seems better if this were to replace the other welfare programs. At least this way there would be less bureaucracy (hopefully)

And if the $500 payment is in Bitcoin only...

[specsaregood]

How long will it take all the homeless to move there?

They will probably require proof of residency. how long until somebody goes into the business of renting out personal mail boxes for residency purposes?

[Swordsmyth]

They will probably require proof of residency. how long until somebody goes into the business of renting out personal mail boxes for residency purposes?
Or some lawyer will claim that proof of residency is discriminatory against the homeless.

[specsaregood]

Or some lawyer to claim that proof of residency is discriminatory against the homeless.

the same lawyer handling all the legal paperwork for the PMB business.

[Brian4Liberty]

Part of the thing that puzzles me is that Stockton is over in the agricultural economy of the Central Valley and so, while I don't know, it doesn't seem like it would necessarily be terribly liberal. Although there's probably a lot of Mexican workers and a small handful of wealthy people.

On the other hand, Stoctkon got whacked in the housing meltdown, and according to Wiki, was the second largest U.S. city to declare bankruptcy at that time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockton,_California

I'll assume you live more in the Oakland hills area, but many of the residents of your city moved to Stockton over the past 2 decades, while Jerry Brown was gentrifying. Many other people fled Stockton. The result was far more welfare recipients and illegals for every rural farmer.

[helmuth_hubener]

The mayor of Stockton, Calif. used to be an LP member back in the 90s, if I recall correctly. They would have a list in the LP News of all the elected officials.

[Origanalist]

So if I move to Stockton I get $500.00 a month???!!!

I'm on my way!

[Origanalist]

https://assets.dnainfo.com/generated/chicago_photo/2016/04/mike-noe-2-1459775049.jpg/extralarge.jpg

[Brian4Liberty]

The mayor of Stockton, Calif. used to be an LP member back in the 90s, if I recall correctly. They would have a list in the LP News of all the elected officials.

The "libertarian" think-tanks are notorious for coming up with some of the worst ideas (but it keeps the beltway boys in business).

[anaconda]

I'll assume you live more in the Oakland hills area, but many of the residents of your city moved to Stockton over the past 2 decades, while Jerry Brown was gentrifying. Many other people fled Stockton. The result was far more welfare recipients and illegals for every rural farmer.

For several years a lot of Bay Area people were buying affordable homes in the Central Valley and opting for a very long commute to work (maybe 2 hours one way?). New housing construction was rampant during the housing bubble. After the mortgages went upside down whole residential blocks in these areas might have two or three homes occupied.

[Mordan]

I support a UBI of $0 AND the abolition of ALL other forms of welfare.

that brings the economy to a halt.

UBI greases the economy. The UBI is spent and money moves around making people richer and increases tax revenues.

Don't people understand that the economy is just people running around doing things?

[Mordan]

And if the $500 payment is in Bitcoin only...

Bitcoin fees are too high. And they would have to buy Bitcoin on the market.

They could create a whole new coin just for that. And accept taxes for it. The problem is kick starting such a coin with monthly inflation. Somehow the coin would have to have government value to make citizens not exchange it for Bitcoin right away on exchanges. Tricky.

They would use an named account based blockchain such as Bitshares. Money would be 100% trackable.

[nobody's_hero]

I don't see this being much different than raising the minimum wage.

New Problem: The dollar isn't buying as much as it used to.
Solution: Give people more money.
New Problem: The dollar isn't buying as much as it used to.
Solution: Give people more money.
New Problem: The dollar isn't buying as much as it used to.
Solution: Give people more money.
New Problem: The dollar isn't buying as much as it used to.
Solution: Give people more money.
New Problem: The dollar isn't buying as much as it used to.
Solution: Give people more money.
New Problem: The dollar isn't buying as much as it used to.
Solution: Give people more money.
New Problem: The dollar isn't buying as much as it used to.
Solution: Give people more money.
New Problem: The dollar isn't buying as much as it used to.
Solution: Give people more money.

We'll all be Zimbabwillionaires.

[timosman]

I don't see this being much different than raising the minimum wage.

New Problem: The dollar isn't buying as much as it used to.
Solution: Give people more money.
New Problem: The dollar isn't buying as much as it used to.
Solution: Give people more money.
New Problem: The dollar isn't buying as much as it used to.
Solution: Give people more money.
New Problem: The dollar isn't buying as much as it used to.
Solution: Give people more money.
New Problem: The dollar isn't buying as much as it used to.
Solution: Give people more money.
New Problem: The dollar isn't buying as much as it used to.
Solution: Give people more money.
New Problem: The dollar isn't buying as much as it used to.
Solution: Give people more money.
New Problem: The dollar isn't buying as much as it used to.
Solution: Give people more money.

We'll all be Zimbabwillionaires.

At some point, if not already, people will start asking themselves this question - what is this the premium I get for slaving off at work? Maybe it would make more sense to switch to UBI?:cool:

[not.your.average.joe]

that brings the economy to a halt.
Rewarding people for not contributing to the economy brings the economy to a halt. Appropriating worked-for dollars to those who do not work is an incentive for those who contribute to the economy to stop contributing. Where does the money for your UBI come from once nobody is creating any value?


UBI greases the economy. The UBI is spent and money moves around making people richer and increases tax revenues.
It's a slippery slope. People are not getting richer if there is no wealth being created.


Don't people understand that the economy is just people running around doing things?
Paying people who aren't running around doing things is not how you get people to run around and do things.

[Swordsmyth]

that brings the economy to a halt.

UBI greases the economy. The UBI is spent and money moves around making people richer and increases tax revenues.

Don't people understand that the economy is just people running around doing things?

The economy is people building wealth not people building mud pies.

[phill4paul]

I thought the concept of UBI was providing basic income to displaced workers due to automation. How many of those receiving this UBI were actually displaced? Or is it just another transfer of wealth from the productive to the non-productive?

[Pauls' Revere]

Reminds me of a quote I saw long ago. something like "when people realize they vote to receive money the republic is dead" Something to that effect, from Orwell? maybe?

[nobody's_hero]

Reminds me of a quote I saw long ago. something like "when people realize they vote to receive money the republic is dead" Something to that effect, from Orwell? maybe?

I've seen it attributed to Ben Franklin. Of course there's so many sources on the internet either embellishing what the founders said or trying to discredit them, it's sad that we are losing our history.

"When the people discover they can vote themselves money, it will herald the end of the republic."

[timosman]

I've seen it attributed to Ben Franklin. Of course there's so many sources on the internet either embellishing what the founders said or trying to discredit them, it's sad that we are losing our history.

"When the people discover they can vote themselves money, it will herald the end of the republic."

How about a global leech? Wealth extraction from other countries encourages immigration to the country perceived as doing well and this keeps the system running.:cool:

[phill4paul]

The mayor of Stockton, California, is leading an experiment with “universal basic income,” which is set to start by giving low-income residents $500 a month, no questions asked.

Mayor Michael Tubbs calls his city “ground zero” for issues like wage stagnation, rising housing prices and loss of middle-class jobs that affect the nation.


Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2018/02/u-s-city-to-experiment-with-universal-basic-income/#toLO4cgzwKDHlu65.99

I'm suing the city. This is such a city centrist issue I'm offended! Fucking city centrists. Who are they not to give me $500 a month because I can't afford to move there. City Centrists. They don't care about people that live in rural areas! I'm tired of the City Centrist mindset that makes them think they are better than us!!! I want my U.B.I !!!!

[acptulsa]

Reminds me of a quote I saw long ago. something like "when people realize they vote to receive money the republic is dead" Something to that effect, from Orwell? maybe?

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.” ― Alexander Fraser Tytler

[kahless]

Not advocating it but the theory of eliminating all social welfare programs including unemployment to be replaced by a payment to everyone equally is a far fairer system then what we have now.

The high cost of housing would still be an issue for the homeless but you could give tax breaks to corporations to house them and there are charities as well.

[phill4paul]

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.” ― Alexander Fraser Tytler

For those that have observed and studied know that we are still in the dependence stage. That dependency is continuing to fuel the instruments of bondage. It get's far worse.

[nikcers]

Ron Paul was asked about UBI in this recent interview. I still like the Ron Paul answer that Trump is not a puppet to satisfy the Trump supporters- seems like he didn't want Ron to elaborate on what he meant but I'd imagine Ron would say that Trump is more puppet master for his supporters LOL



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSTpLWLnteY

[acptulsa]

For those that have observed and studied know that we are still in the dependence stage. That dependency is continuing to fuel the instruments of bondage. It get's far worse.

Seems to me all we can do is find ways to shorten the bondage phase. This only partly involves warning people the bondage is coming, resisting the bondage, and educating people about how bondage is not America's heritage. In no small part, it involves keeping our eyes on the next step--spiritual faith.

Clearly those who would prolong the bondage phase have their eyes on the next phase. They are sure working like beavers to strip us all of spiritual faith.

[nikcers]

Not advocating it but the theory of eliminating all social welfare programs including unemployment to be replaced by a payment to everyone equally is a far fairer system then what we have now.

The high cost of housing would still be an issue for the homeless but you could give tax breaks to corporations to house them and there are charities as well.
Not if you consider monetary policy an arm of our foreign policy. We can't purpose changes to our system that are dependent on our foreign policy. If our foreign policy is making us go poor, we can't change that by making cuts to social programs. Currency manipulation is part of our foreign policy its how we destroy other countries between currency manipulation "fair trade" and sanctions. We can't consider changing our monetary policy or fiscal policy without changing our foreign policy. If we were to just audit the fed we would shed light on a lot of the shenanigans. We shouldn't have theoretical arguments though when we are living in soviet America.

[nikcers]

"Hey guys the American system isn't working lets try full blown socialism" is not something I would ever think I would see on here, this means that the terrorists have won, the real terrorists. The best thing about making America great again is you sort of see what you want to see, its kind of like looking at a cloud. I knew it was a scam but even the most cynical bone in me hoped that Making America Great Again might of been trying real capitalism and free markets. Thats the thing about clouds and phoney slogans though, you see what you want to see. The trick is not to believe what you want to believe.

[kahless]

Not if you consider monetary policy an arm of our foreign policy. We can't purpose changes to our system that are dependent on our foreign policy. If our foreign policy is making us go poor, we can't change that by making cuts to social programs. Currency manipulation is part of our foreign policy its how we destroy other countries between currency manipulation "fair trade" and sanctions. We can't consider changing our monetary policy or fiscal policy without changing our foreign policy. If we were to just audit the fed we would shed light on a lot of the shenanigans. We shouldn't have theoretical arguments though when we are living in soviet America.

^This.


"Hey guys the American system isn't working lets try full blown socialism" is not something I would ever think I would see on here, this means that the terrorists have won, the real terrorists. The best thing about making America great again is you sort of see what you want to see, its kind of like looking at a cloud. I knew it was a scam but even the most cynical bone in me hoped that Making America Great Again might of been trying real capitalism and free markets. Thats the thing about clouds and phoney slogans though, you see what you want to see. The trick is not to believe what you want to believe.

Who is the real Donald Trump, you go back to his writings and comments long prior to running for office at times he sounded like a Palecon on foreign policy but he was always suspected of being phoney. The concern is also whether deep state, military and military industrial complex has more control over the office of the President then we are led to believe.

Would the same thing happen to Rand if he were President or Ron for that matter? I certainly believe they would be closer to their foreign policies than Trump but no doubt I believe they would reigned in.

Despite his flaws it could have been far worse with Hillary advocating shooting Russia planes out of the sky and war with Russia over Crimea/Ukraine and more.

[Anti Federalist]

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2018/02/u-s-city-to-experiment-with-universal-basic-income/#toLO4cgzwKDHlu65.99

I'm suing the city. This is such a city centrist issue I'm offended! Fucking city centrists. Who are they not to give me $500 a month because I can't afford to move there. City Centrists. They don't care about people that live in rural areas! I'm tired of the City Centrist mindset that makes them think they are better than us!!! I want my U.B.I !!!!

City Centrist Shitlords!!!

I want my UBI

[phill4paul]

City Centrist Shitlords!!!

I want my UBI

;) We've become a bowel movement! Onward, brother! UBI equality for Rural Repatriation!