Ron Paul in 2015 "I support black lives matter"

[jmdrake]

https://thelibertarianrepublic.com/ron-paul-support-black-lives-matter/

I support the black lives matter movement. I have long advocated an end to the drug war, police militarization, and other threats to liberty that disproportionately victimize African-Americans. However, I wish some of the black lives matter movement’s passion and energy was directed to ending abortion. Unborn black lives also matter.

Note that later Ron Paul went on to criticize the Black Lives Matter organization for its socialist agenda. But he was early on board with the idea that there is an alarming increase in police brutality and African Americans are disproportionately affected.

I will now return this forum to its regularly scheduled Trump worship and right wing identity politics.

[r3volution 3.0]

https://thelibertarianrepublic.com/ron-paul-support-black-lives-matter/

I support the black lives matter movement. I have long advocated an end to the drug war, police militarization, and other threats to liberty that disproportionately victimize African-Americans. However, I wish some of the black lives matter movement’s passion and energy was directed to ending abortion. Unborn black lives also matter.

Note that later Ron Paul went on to criticize the Black Lives Matter organization for its socialist agenda. But he was early on board with the idea that there is an alarming increase in police brutality and African Americans are disproportionately affected.

I will now return this forum to its regularly scheduled Trump worship and right wing identity politics.

Ron takes the right approach. Praise them for the good things they do (or, if they actually do no good things, for what one could take them to be trying to do on the most generous interpretation of their actions), and condemn the bad. It's strongly reminiscent of how Rand handles (and emphasize the word handles) Trump.

[Raginfridus]

... regularly scheduled Trump worship and right wing identity politics.It was a good read until I got here.

Who are you talking about?

[jmdrake]

It was a good read until I got here.

Who are you talking about?

On which part? The Trump worship or the right wing identity politics? We have both. Not the majority mind you, but a vocal minority.

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

But in all honesty, I would love to hear what Ron has to say in 2017. . .

lots of water under the bridge since then. . . and lots of political hijackings of "causes"

[Raginfridus]

On which part? The Trump worship or the right wing identity politics? We have both. Not the majority mind you, but a vocal minority.Sorry, the "regularly scheduled" part.

[Ender]

Ron takes the right approach. Praise them for the good things they do (or, if they actually do no good things, for what one could take them to be trying to do on the most generous interpretation of their actions), and condemn the bad. It's strongly reminiscent of how Rand handles (and emphasize the word handles) Trump.

Agree- hate gets us nowhere.

[r3volution 3.0]

On which part? The Trump worship or the right wing identity politics? We have both. Not the majority mind you, but a vocal minority.

Perhaps I've misunderstood, but (per the Bannon bet thread) I took it that you denied that that camp was about racial identity politics.

[phill4paul]

I was too. As I was regarding Occupy. BLM and Occupy were both COINTEL/INFIL really quickly and in retrospect may have been created, much like ANTIFA.

I am a fan of civil disobedience. I think the Bundy's were absolutely right in Bunkerville, but absolutely wrong in Malhuer. But, there comes a point where you realize that it is not organic anymore and it is being controlled.

[Origanalist]

I was too. As I was regarding Occupy. BLM and Occupy were both COINTEL/INFIL really quickly and in retrospect may have been created, much like ANTIFA.

I am a fan of civil disobedience. I think the Bundy's were absolutely right in Bunkerville, but absolutely wrong in Malhuer. But, there comes a point where you realize that it is not organic anymore and it is being controlled.

/ thread

[juleswin]

My thing is this, if something is at a certain level of bad, I disregard the good they do and will not support them. Take for example, the neocons may sometimes want to kill terrorists trying to harm me(which is good) but I would never give them credit for anything because I think the bad they overwhelms the good.

This is the same way I see BLM, Stefan Molyneux, Alex Jones (probably explains why Ron Paul still gives that conman the time of day) etc etc.

[enhanced_deficit]

I'm sure he did and does as a matter of principle and not just as a slogan sometimes also used by some politicians to cultivate/promote tribalism, political agenda.

BLM is a subset of ALM and individual subsets can be highlighted in the proper context to make a point, raise awareness etc. I'm certain his view of BLM/ALM is going to be much more logically consistent and libertarian principled in contrast to say someone like SWC "every stance based on political calculus" Hillary or someone like DGP Obama.





Related

Shaun King
October 8, 2016
Dear Harvey Weinstein and The Weinstein Company, please tell us what you meant in this email to Hillary when you said you wanted to "silence" the Black Lives Matter Movement.
Also, explain your plan to pit the victims of Sandy Hook against victims of police brutality.
We need to know.
https://theintercept.com/…/harvey-weinstein-urged-clinton-…/ (https://theintercept.com/2016/10/07/harvey-weinstein-urged-clinton-campaign-to-silence-sanderss-black-lives-matter-message/)

https://external-mia3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQCq5gKf0HgQ3T7U&w=476&h=249&url=https%3A%2F%2Fprod01-cdn07.cdn.firstlook.org%2Fwp-uploads%2Fsites%2F1%2F2016%2F10%2FGettyImages-51571158-feature-hero.jpg&cfs=1&upscale=1&sx=0&sy=0&sw=1200&sh=628&_nc_hash=AQBqttWTRHpDMfIX

(https://theintercept.com/2016/10/07/harvey-weinstein-urged-clinton-campaign-to-silence-sanderss-black-lives-matter-message/)

Harvey Weinstein Urged Clinton Campaign to Silence Sanders’s Black Lives Matter Message (https://theintercept.com/2016/10/07/harvey-weinstein-urged-clinton-campaign-to-silence-sanderss-black-lives-matter-message/)
2016-10-07
Hacked emails show that movie mogul Harvey Weinstein, a longtime ally of Hillary Clinton and a major fundraiser (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-fundraiser-celebrity-photos_us_57693f6de4b0fbbc8beba184) for her 2016 campaign, urged her campaign team to silence rival Bernie Sanders’s message against police shootings of African-Americans. He suggested countering it with “the Sandy Hook issue” — a reference to Sanders’s opposition to lawsuits against gun manufacturers.



http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/media/2113/rpilogo-final.gif (http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/)

Welcome to the United Police States of America, Where Police Shoot First & Ask Questions Later (http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2013/november/04/welcome-to-the-united-police-states-of-america-where-police-shoot-first-ask-questions-later/)

November 4, 2013

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/media/31167/Bearcat.jpg
“There are always risks in challenging excessive police power, but the risks of not challenging it are more dangerous, even fatal.”
—Hunter S. Thompson, Kingdom of Fear: Loathsome Secrets of a Star-Crossed Child in the Final Days of the American Century


These shootings are occurring with such frequency now that they are quickly forgotten, lost in the morass of similarly heartbreaking, tragic incidents. It was barely a month ago, for example, that police in Washington, DC, shot and killed 34-year-old Miriam Carey after she collided with a barrier leading to the White House, then fled when pursued by a phalanx of gun-wielding police and cop cars. Carey’s 1-year-old daughter was in the backseat. Seventeen gun shots later, Carey was dead and her toddler motherless. It was what is known as a “bad shoot.” As James Mulvaney, a professor of law and police science, explains: “A ‘good shoot’ in police lingo is one in which officers use deadly force to prevent a suspect from inflicting serious harm. A ‘bad shoot’ is one in which there might have been a nonlethal alternative.”

How should we as a society respond when we hear about the Las Vegas police officer who shot an unarmed man at a convenience store whom he “thought” was a homicide suspect, or the Los Angeles cop who shot an unarmed man seen leaving a convenience store where an ATM had been robbed of $40 or the DC cops who killed a young mother in a hail of gunfire? As John Grant notes for Counterpunch: “The ignominious and unnecessary public killing of Miriam Carey should be a human marker that triggers our cultural meaning machine to honestly consider what’s wrong with the picture of a howling pack of cops shooting down a troubled young mother … like a dog.”

If ever there were a time to de-militarize and de-weaponize local police forces, it’s now. The same goes for scaling back on the mindset adopted by cops that they are the law and should be revered, feared and obeyed. As for the idea that citizens must be compliant or risk being treated like lawbreakers, that’s nothing more than authoritarianism with a badge. As Grant points out: “As the public killing of Miriam Carey should make clear, a significant part of the problem is cops and the pack mentality they too often resort to.

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2013/november/04/welcome-to-the-united-police-states-of-america-where-police-shoot-first-ask-questions-later/




http://www.secretsofthefed.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/BUTTON.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=nBb5M_l2IZi8yM&tbnid=Gas03riq90BjnM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ronpaulforums.com%2Fshowthrea d.php%3F430896-Miriam-Carey-laid-to-rest&ei=aBjCUrWnH8GfkAem4oDQDQ&bvm=bv.58187178,d.eW0&psig=AFQjCNGvsO7A3TFn-BmhEw4UI9KngWAdLw&ust=1388538338198106)

Entire House Of Reps Gives Standing Ovation To Cops After Killing Unarmed Mother (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?429504-Entire-House-Of-Reps-Gives-Standing-Ovation-To-Cops-After-Killing-Unarmed-Mother/page26&)

Lawyer representing family of Miriam Carey arrested (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?430954-Lawyer-representing-family-of-Miriam-Carey-arrested&)

Why We Should Not Forget Miriam Carey (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?430626-Why-We-Should-Not-Forget-Miriam-Carey&)

[Superfluous Man]

It was a good read until I got here.

Who are you talking about?

Stick around and you'll see plenty of those.

[nikcers]

BLM was originally just something people started saying because a lot of people were victims of police brutality and were being killed on the streets for seemingly doing nothing but being at the wrong place at the wrong time. If it were lions getting shot people would say lions life's matter. Ron Paul will talk about whatever subject he thinks is hot or popular at the time, and even suggest he agrees to certain aspects of what the confused people are asking for even though they can't articulate or understand it- at the root which is liberty. Ron Paul translated: Yes I agree with BLM on the sentiment that we have to fight for liberty, for the dream, so that we may hope to live it some day.

[r3volution 3.0]

Stick around and you'll see plenty of those.

They've been quiet lately.

When Molyneux comes out with reality v10.06., explaining it all as an Xd chess move, they'll be back to regurgitate it at us.

[Raginfridus]

Stick around and you'll see plenty of those.


They've been quiet lately.

When Molyneux comes out with reality v10.06., explaining it all as an Xd chess move, they'll be back to regurgitate it at us.Who is this Molyneux? Is he person or persona?

[Weston White]

I disagree with this premise to a certain extent. Because in emphasizing the racial aspect you are contravening the very core of what the concern is supposed to rectifying. There should not be a BET, Congressional Black Caucus, affirmative action, BLM, etc. There is just discrimination, it is black and white. Individual racism, ethnic stereotyping, and caricaturing is not something that can just be legislated away--it is just part of nature to want remain within one's own flock, so to speak.

Making the focus of the debate about black versus government is not correct, it is government versus individuality that is the crux of the matter.

[Weston White]

Who is this Molyneux? Is he person or persona?

Some say he is a genius, other an evil genius. He will deny any such allegations of course, he considers himself above such topiaries.

[r3volution 3.0]

Who is this Molyneux? Is he person or persona?

Charlatan

http://www.fdrliberated.com/

[Raginfridus]

So Molyneux's the MoarfeeusCoolDood99 to Laurence Fishburne's Morpheus? Gotcha.

[shakey1]

... But he was early on board with the idea that there is an alarming increase in police brutality and African Americans are disproportionately affected.



kinda the way I saw 'em initially, 'til their agenda took an ugly turn.

[Todd]

So Molyneux's the MoarfeeusCoolDood99 to Laurence Fishburne's Morpheus? Gotcha.

Yep. He has some value. I mean, even charlatans speak the truth some times. His pro gun philosophy is pretty sound. He has a fantastic quote exposing the hypocrisy of Antigun peoples.

His peaceful parenting strategy is a load of shit. He apparently has never had a child with reactive attachment problems.

[Superfluous Man]

kinda the way I saw 'em initially, 'til their agenda took an ugly turn.

Who is this "they" though?

No doubt there are people who say, "black lives matter," who have ugly agendas. But there are other people who say, "black lives matter," who do not.

The thing about the slogan, "black lives matter," is that it's a true statement. Moreover, it's a statement that is too widely disbelieved, at least implicitly if not explicitly, as evidenced by a number of things that I shouldn't need to recite but could if need be, and so one that deserves to be reinforced by way of reminder.

If it appears to be the case that the population of those who say, "black lives matter," is too heavily weighted toward people with ugly agendas, then it seems to me that the best course we who believe that black lives do matter and who do not have ugly agendas can follow is for ourselves to be more diligent to say, "black lives matter," so as to recalibrate that imbalance and have the "black lives matter" slogan come to be more associated with us who do not have ugly agendas than it is with those who do.

[Ender]

I disagree with this premise to a certain extent. Because in emphasizing the racial aspect you are contravening the very core of what the concern is supposed to rectifying. There should not be a BET, Congressional Black Caucus, affirmative action, BLM, etc. There is just discrimination, it is black and white. Individual racism, ethnic stereotyping, and caricaturing is not something that can just be legislated away--it is just part of nature to want remain within one's own flock, so to speak.

Making the focus of the debate about black versus government is not correct, it is government versus individuality that is the crux of the matter.

But, it does serve the gov agenda to have people separated, classified, and fighting amongst themselves. Takes everyone's eye off of the Big Picture and what gov goals really are.

[unknown]

Dr. Paul will always support the freedom to protest and to engage in civil disobedience even if its misguided.

Although I dont know that BLM was necessarily protesting the specific issues that Dr. Paul mentions.

[Raginfridus]

Yep. He has some value. I mean, even charlatans speak the truth some times. His pro gun philosophy is pretty sound. He has a fantastic quote exposing the hypocrisy of Antigun peoples.

His peaceful parenting strategy is a load of $#@!. He apparently has never had a child with reactive attachment problems.True. When a liar's right 1/100 he's still right that one time, even if he is a liar.

[LibertyEagle]

They've been quiet lately.

When Molyneux comes out with reality v10.06., explaining it all as an Xd chess move, they'll be back to regurgitate it at us.

At the point that the person who frequently advocates world government on this forum becomes "us", this forum should be shut down.

Luckily, it hasn't reached that point. Yet.

[euphemia]

BLM was never about the things Dr. Paul agrees with.

[Superfluous Man]

BLM was never about the things Dr. Paul agrees with.

I believe that black lives matter and I support the things he agrees with.

Does someone else who doesn't support those things get to say that they're the only person who believes that black lives matter or something?

[Krugminator2]

No doubt there are people who say, "black lives matter," who have ugly agendas. But there are other people who say, "black lives matter," who do not.




I believe that black lives matter and I support the things he agrees with.

Does someone else who doesn't support those things get to say that they're the only person who believes that black lives matter or something?

I have not seen one person who has been affiliated with the group espouse anything remotely close to views that relate to freedom. However, I have read their platform thoroughly, listened to their most visible spokesman Deray Mckesson, and seen how people associated with the group behave. Communism, looting, and stopping traffic aren't just differences of opinion. They are clearly wrong and anyone who supports them is wrong.

It isn't a matter of a couple of bad apples. Just like there are no good white supremacists and Nazis, there are no good Black Lives Matter members.

Even the superficial reason for the movement, cops shooting black people at a higher rate during confrontations, isn't even true. http://www.nber.org/papers/w22399 The whole spark from "Hands up, Don't Shoot" never happened. The force the officer used in Ferguson was actually one example of the police using reasonable force. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/03/19/hands-up-dont-shoot-did-not-happen-in-ferguson/?utm_term=.9d4cb8971dbd

[acptulsa]

My thing is this, if something is at a certain level of bad, I disregard the good they do and will not support them.

So, you're saying this meets that standard and Che Guevara doesn't?

[juleswin]

So, you're saying this meets that standard and Che Guevara doesn't?

Not even close. I love Che because he fought the evil of imperialism with all that he had and actually sacrificed himself in that goal. A lot of the dreadful things said about him were said by the evil imperialists and their talking head so it doesn't shock me that they are saying awful thing about the man and I don't necessarily believe what they say.

[nikcers]

Dr. Paul will always support the freedom to protest and to engage in civil disobedience even if its misguided.

Although I dont know that BLM was necessarily protesting the specific issues that Dr. Paul mentions.
protest killing of people,we should always do that. The idea with Ron Paul supporting BLM was that it was ambiguously using a race card to argue for more criminal justice reform. The whole thing got co-opted by people who wanted criminal justice reform, like Ron Paul, and then the establishment used it for its real goal and its intended creation which is divide and conquer, and now they are doing it in here by implying Ron Paul wants to divide and conquer because he said he supported BLM in the context of criminal justice reform. This thread is a shitty thread.

[unknown]

protest killing of people,we should always do that. The idea with Ron Paul supporting BLM was that it was ambiguously using a race card to argue for more criminal justice reform. The whole thing got co-opted by people who wanted criminal justice reform, like Ron Paul, and then the establishment used it for its real goal and its intended creation which is divide and conquer, and now they are doing it in here by implying Ron Paul wants to divide and conquer because he said he supported BLM in the context of criminal justice reform. This thread is a shitty thread.

Anyone who doesnt understand Dr. Paul's stance on the militarization of the police, civil asset forfeitures, checkpoints, due process or the immorality of the "war on drugs", is either retarded or just a fucking asshole.

[nikcers]

Anyone who doesnt understand Dr. Paul's stance on the militarization of the police, civil asset forfeitures, checkpoints, due process or the immorality of the "war on drugs", is either retarded or just a $#@!ing $#@!.
I don't mind ignorance, its just easy to take anything anyone said out of context and make it mean anything you want. Trying to argue that thats what Ron Paul meant in a Ron Paul forum though means your going to have a bad time.

[AZJoe]

I love Che because he fought the evil of imperialism with all that he had and actually sacrificed himself in that goal.

Very disappointed in juleswin. "Loves" an anti-liberty, anti-freedom, pro-statist, pro-marxist, pro-totalitarian, mass murderer. You don't have to believe others, you need only read Che's own writings, his recorded words and actions. There is no excuse. It is intentional willful ignorance.

There is no virtue in loving extreme evil because it opposed another wickedness.

“This is a man who banned music, burned books, hated blacks, was an anti-semite, murdered those who disagreed with him, personally oversaw execution squads, and was in charge of a system that imprisoned gays solely for the crime of being gay. … One or two good deeds does not make up for wholesale slaughter, imprisonment, suppression of individual freedom, and extremism. …
The type of man that will hold a gun to your head and pull the trigger unless you agree with him is not excused by the policies he is attempting to put in place, even if his desired ends are good. The type of man who will decide that you shouldn’t have the right to read what you want, and will destroy the books in your library to prevent competing ideas from spreading, is not fit to call himself human. It is animalistic. It is primitive. It is evil. … Che Guevara … was a murderous tyrant. … He deserves scorn, not respect. He was no different than the plantation owners in the south who lynched blacks because they believed they were defending their way of life. …" more (https://www.joshuakennon.com/che-guevara/)

"He helped free Cubans from the repressive Batista regime, only to enslave them in a totalitarian police state worst than the last. He was Fidel Castro’s chief executioner, a mass-murderer ... As Guevara wrote to a friend in 1957, ‘My ideological training means that I am one of those people who believe that the solution to the world’s problems is to be found behind the Iron Curtain.’…He was a great admirer of the Cultural Revolution . ... ‘It was [Che Guevara] and not Fidel who in 1960 invented Cuba’s first corrective work camp,’ or what the Americans would call a slave labor camp and the Russians called the gulag.” more (http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/michael-j-totten/truth-about-che-guevara)

“He vociferously opposed freedoms of religion, speech, press, assembly, protest, or any other rights not completely consistent with his North Korean-style communism. … Guevara fervently opposed any free elections? … Che was enraged when the Russians blinked during the 1962 Cuban missile crisis and withdrew their nuclear missiles … Guevara declar[ed] Cuba “a people ready to sacrifice itself to nuclear arms, that its ashes might serve as a basis for new societies.” … When put in charge of the Cuban economy at the start of Castro’s government, his uncompromising communist diktats ran it completely into the ground, from which it never recovered. …” more (http://www.therealcuba.com/?page_id=32)

[I]“Hatred as an element of struggle; unbending hatred for the enemy, which pushes a human being beyond his natural limitations, making him into an effective, violent, selective, and cold-blooded killing machine. This is what our soldiers must become …” ché Guevara

More:
Humerto Fontova (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1595230521/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1595230521&linkCode=as2&tag=michajtottesm-20)
Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/4077397/It-is-a-sad-reflection-of-our-time-that-Che-Guevara-is-seen-as-a-hero.html)

[Danke]

Not even close. I love Che because he fought the evil of imperialism with all that he had and actually sacrificed himself in that goal. A lot of the dreadful things said about him were said by the evil imperialists and their talking head so it doesn't shock me that they are saying awful thing about the man and I don't necessarily believe what they say.

http://media.giphy.com/media/iQEOg3zGJBXLa/giphy.gif

[undergroundrr]

All good movements get co-opted. The more a "movement" is strengthened by its early adherents, the more power its eventual co-opters will inherit and use for tyranny later. r3VOLution -> tea party -> alt-right -> trump.

In better days, Molyneux argued forcefully that this is why you don't want a minarchy. The inevitable eventual maxarchy will use the enormous technological and production expansion caused by free markets to enslave and kill with unprecedented efficiency. The same kind of thing happens on a smaller proportion when a grass roots movement gets too big.

the r3VOLution was a neat idea because it would have used the established tyranny machinery of the GOP to eliminate tyranny, reversing the usual mechanism.

The civil rights movement (stretching back to Spartacus, Moses and perhaps before) and its offshoots like BLM come from a pure and beautiful place. It's silly to condemn the original movement because of what its inheritors did with it. It's more appropriate to denounce libertarians for not having the initiative and expertise to co-opt it themselves effectively.

[Madison320]

Very disappointed in juleswin. "Loves" an anti-liberty, anti-freedom, pro-statist, pro-marxist, pro-totalitarian, mass murderer. You don't have to believe others, you need only read Che's own writings, his recorded words and actions. There is no excuse. It is intentional willful ignorance.

There is no virtue in loving extreme evil because it opposed another wickedness.



The worst part is that the statism that Guevara likes is a direct cause of the thing he claims to oppose (imperialism).

It's like saying "I hate fat people but I wish everyone would eat cheesecake and pizza."

Actually imperialism is just another form of statism.

[Madison320]

https://thelibertarianrepublic.com/ron-paul-support-black-lives-matter/

I support the black lives matter movement. I have long advocated an end to the drug war, police militarization, and other threats to liberty that disproportionately victimize African-Americans. However, I wish some of the black lives matter movement’s passion and energy was directed to ending abortion. Unborn black lives also matter.

Note that later Ron Paul went on to criticize the Black Lives Matter organization for its socialist agenda. But he was early on board with the idea that there is an alarming increase in police brutality and African Americans are disproportionately affected.

I will now return this forum to its regularly scheduled Trump worship and right wing identity politics.

Ron Paul is against BLM in this clip. Basically he is saying that poverty doesn't give you the right to someone else's wealth and if we had property rights we wouldn't have all these problems. Pretty much what I've been saying and getting blasted for:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YRN226f51w

[jmdrake]

Ron Paul is against BLM in this clip. Basically he is saying that poverty doesn't give you the right to someone else's wealth and if we had property rights we wouldn't have all these problems. Pretty much what I've been saying and getting blasted for:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YRN226f51w

Note that I said: "Note that later Ron Paul went on to criticize the Black Lives Matter organization for its socialist agenda. But he was early on board with the idea that there is an alarming increase in police brutality and African Americans are disproportionately affected."

So...did you not actually read what I wrote? Note everyone who is protesting the unjustified killings by police, which are disproportionately affecting blacks, support BLM Inc.

Here is an example of pastors who prior to all of the hype supported Kaepernick by vowing to boycott the NFL and use the time to teach values to black youth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuEY9imwkfU

You can be against police brutality and not be socialist just like you can be against Obamacare and not be one of the Charlottesville alt-right racists.

[jmdrake]

BLM was never about the things Dr. Paul agrees with.

Are you against this?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuEY9imwkfU

Note that while these pastors aren't a part of the "official" BLM movement, they were supporting Kaepernick before Trump made it a national issue by being an ass.

[jmdrake]

Perhaps I've misunderstood, but (per the Bannon bet thread) I took it that you denied that that camp was about racial identity politics.

I haven't seen evidence that Bannon himself is a racist. I've looked for it. I have seen people on this forum who are clearly racists. Whenever someone uses a term like "white genocide" that person is engaging in right wing identity politics. People who support David Duke (and I've seen that here) are engaging in right wing identity politics. Bannon called the Charlottesville alt-right protesters "clowns." It was the asshole Trump that said they were "good people."

[jmdrake]

Dr. Paul will always support the freedom to protest and to engage in civil disobedience even if its misguided.

Although I dont know that BLM was necessarily protesting the specific issues that Dr. Paul mentions.

It depends upon what you identify as "BLM." Many people out protesting were definitely against the disproportionate use of law enforcement against blacks that Dr. Paul described. The co-opted BLM "movement"...not so much. But look at the "tea party." Ron Paul is called the godfather of the tea party and yet many of the so called "leaders" are drug warrior pro-interventionists.

[jmdrake]

Sorry, the "regularly scheduled" part.

Gotcha. It seems cyclical to me. No it's not "official" and I didn't mean to make it sound like that.

[jmdrake]

I disagree with this premise to a certain extent. Because in emphasizing the racial aspect you are contravening the very core of what the concern is supposed to rectifying. There should not be a BET, Congressional Black Caucus, affirmative action, BLM, etc. There is just discrimination, it is black and white. Individual racism, ethnic stereotyping, and caricaturing is not something that can just be legislated away--it is just part of nature to want remain within one's own flock, so to speak.

Making the focus of the debate about black versus government is not correct, it is government versus individuality that is the crux of the matter.

Why are you against the free market? BET exists because there is a distinct culture in America that came from a different part of the world than the majority. And people who complain about "black" culture but don't complain about St Patrick's Day or Octoberfest or Cinco De Mayo or Italian food are, in my opinion, being wilfully blind at best and downright hypocritical at worst. Besides, at this point "blacks" don't even own BET.

In the context of police brutality, Ron Paul was correct in acknowledging that it does disproportionately affect blacks. There is a wider issue that it affects everyone too.

[Madison320]

Note that I said: "Note that later Ron Paul went on to criticize the Black Lives Matter organization for its socialist agenda. But he was early on board with the idea that there is an alarming increase in police brutality and African Americans are disproportionately affected."

So...did you not actually read what I wrote? Note everyone who is protesting the unjustified killings by police, which are disproportionately affecting blacks, support BLM Inc.

Here is an example of pastors who prior to all of the hype supported Kaepernick by vowing to boycott the NFL and use the time to teach values to black youth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuEY9imwkfU

You can be against police brutality and not be socialist just like you can be against Obamacare and not be one of the Charlottesville alt-right racists.

Obviously it's possible, but I've never seen an example of it. Can you give me an example of a black group that is against police brutality and is pro free market capitalism?

[Weston White]

Why are you against the free market? BET exists because there is a distinct culture in America that came from a different part of the world than the majority. And people who complain about "black" culture but don't complain about St Patrick's Day or Octoberfest or Cinco De Mayo or Italian food are, in my opinion, being wilfully blind at best and downright hypocritical at worst. Besides, at this point "blacks" don't even own BET.

In the context of police brutality, Ron Paul was correct in acknowledging that it does disproportionately affect blacks. There is a wider issue that it affects everyone too.

No these are not the same thing at all. St. Patrick's day and Octoberfest is about the heritage of a nation (Ireland and Germany), it is not intended to be race specific. Somewhat comparable to Mardi Gras/Fat Tuesday.

Unless they had immigrated form elsewhere, blacks are themselves Americans, they are not "African Americans", and they really need to stop viewing themselves as such.

Cinco De Mayo is a misunderstood holiday that is not even celebrated in Mexico (with exception to one small city where the French skirmish ensued.)

There is no problem with respects to enjoying or inventing Italian food, a there is no problem enjoying Thai, Creole, or Soul food. Ergo, such cuisines are respective to the nationalistic origins of the recipes and has nothing to due with race per say.

There is however a huge issue with creating a racially divisive cable channel. Imagine the outrage of having a White Entertainment Channel or magazine--such would be called out as being KKK inspired, regardless, and would be quickly shutdown by the FCC.

Who the actual owners and board-members of BET are it not very relevant; however, their actions and messages are--which is lets remind people about race, keep it at the forefront, and upkeep stereotypes and prejudices.

[euphemia]

Not even close. I love Che because he fought the evil of imperialism with all that he had and actually sacrificed himself in that goal.

He fought the empire because it wasn't him.

[P3ter_Griffin]

Very disappointed in juleswin. "Loves" an anti-liberty, anti-freedom, pro-statist, pro-marxist, pro-totalitarian, mass murderer. You don't have to believe others, you need only read Che's own writings, his recorded words and actions. There is no excuse. It is intentional willful ignorance.

Ha! I think there is some great irony in this. In jules defense though, he ain't telling us to vote for Che (whoever the fuck that is).

[unknown]

It depends upon what you identify as "BLM." Many people out protesting were definitely against the disproportionate use of law enforcement against blacks that Dr. Paul described. The co-opted BLM "movement"...not so much. But look at the "tea party." Ron Paul is called the godfather of the tea party and yet many of the so called "leaders" are drug warrior pro-interventionists.

Right but either way, for someone to imply that Dr. Paul supports BLM across the board is simply not true.

[Origanalist]

All good movements get co-opted. The more a "movement" is strengthened by its early adherents, the more power its eventual co-opters will inherit and use for tyranny later. r3VOLution -> tea party -> alt-right -> trump.

In better days, Molyneux argued forcefully that this is why you don't want a minarchy. The inevitable eventual maxarchy will use the enormous technological and production expansion caused by free markets to enslave and kill with unprecedented efficiency. The same kind of thing happens on a smaller proportion when a grass roots movement gets too big.

the r3VOLution was a neat idea because it would have used the established tyranny machinery of the GOP to eliminate tyranny, reversing the usual mechanism.

The civil rights movement (stretching back to Spartacus, Moses and perhaps before) and its offshoots like BLM come from a pure and beautiful place. It's silly to condemn the original movement because of what its inheritors did with it. It's more appropriate to denounce libertarians for not having the initiative and expertise to co-opt it themselves effectively.

You are implying that the BLM movement started as a ethically sound ideal. I have seen no evidence of that.

[Origanalist]

I haven't seen evidence that Bannon himself is a racist. I've looked for it. I have seen people on this forum who are clearly racists. Whenever someone uses a term like "white genocide" that person is engaging in right wing identity politics. People who support David Duke (and I've seen that here) are engaging in right wing identity politics. Bannon called the Charlottesville alt-right protesters "clowns." It was the asshole Trump that said they were "good people."

That is no longer true. I hate all this race based shit but you're just denying reality. There are people calling for it.

[Champ]

You are implying that the BLM movement started as a ethically sound ideal. I have seen no evidence of that.


That is no longer true. I hate all this race based $#@! but you're just denying reality. There are people calling for it.

Yes on both accounts.

[Natural Citizen]

https://thelibertarianrepublic.com/ron-paul-support-black-lives-matter/

I will now return this forum to its regularly scheduled Trump worship and right wing identity politics.

It was a good read until I got here.

Who are you talking about?

We have a growing demographic of anti-American, right-wing extremists, working in opposition to the site mission. Because libertarianism permits for their presence, they tend to congregate in libertarian circles, though they do misrepresent it wholly. One of the most fundamental aspects of our mission-supporting activism efforts is valuing electoral politics and the legitimacy of the US constitution. One specific disruption that seems to be growing and consumes much of our time are the attempts to undermine the value of electoral politics or the legitimacy of the US constitution. This undermines the site mission, to be clear.

You would be one of these peckerheads. Though there are others. For now.

As far as the Trump stuff, that's unavoidable. He's President.

[Natural Citizen]

https://thelibertarianrepublic.com/ron-paul-support-black-lives-matter/

I support the black lives matter movement. I have long advocated an end to the drug war, police militarization, and other threats to liberty that disproportionately victimize African-Americans. However, I wish some of the black lives matter movement’s passion and energy was directed to ending abortion. Unborn black lives also matter.

Note that later Ron Paul went on to criticize the Black Lives Matter organization for its socialist agenda. But he was early on board with the idea that there is an alarming increase in police brutality and African Americans are disproportionately affected.

I will now return this forum to its regularly scheduled Trump worship and right wing identity politics.

This is one of the better videos I've seen. Quite an education was handed down to this MSNBC reporter.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdLGgC8KbDY

[Raginfridus]

We have a growing demographic of anti-American, right-wing extremists, working in opposition to the site mission. One of the most fundamental aspects of our mission-supporting activism efforts is valuing electoral politics and the legitimacy of the US constitution. One specific disruption that seems to be growing and consumes much of our time are the attempts to undermine the value of electoral politics or the legitimacy of the US constitution. This undermines the sit mission, to be clear.

You would be one of these peckerheads. Though there are others.I've been promoted from can't be taken seriously to saboteur of the people's republic over night?


THE COMMISSAR NOTICED ME!!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-h8RWN95ubzc/U7XVLazn75I/AAAAAAAAA-s/hPpr8yw5Whw/s1600/PVwKzMG.gif

[Natural Citizen]

Ha. No. You're not that competent.

It's just a hassle dealing with you people.

I wish Bryan would make up his mind what he's going to do, rebuild the place or let it be thrown in the can. Right now he's letting you cats pee all over it.


I've been promoted from can't be taken seriously to saboteur of the people's republic over night?

[Origanalist]

I've been promoted from can't be taken seriously to saboteur of the people's republic over night?


THE COMMISSAR NOTICED ME!!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-h8RWN95ubzc/U7XVLazn75I/AAAAAAAAA-s/hPpr8yw5Whw/s1600/PVwKzMG.gif

Thanks for averting the eye of Sauron.

[enhanced_deficit]

When NFL kneelers, Al Sharpton and some other seasonal BLM'rs were silent, this article supporting BLM/ALM without creating racial divisions was published by Ron Paul Institite:

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/media/2113/rpilogo-final.gif (http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/)

Welcome to the United Police States of America, Where Police Shoot First & Ask Questions Later (http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2013/november/04/welcome-to-the-united-police-states-of-america-where-police-shoot-first-ask-questions-later/)

November 4, 2013

“There are always risks in challenging excessive police power, but the risks of not challenging it are more dangerous, even fatal.”
—Hunter S. Thompson, Kingdom of Fear: Loathsome Secrets of a Star-Crossed Child in the Final Days of the American Century

These shootings are occurring with such frequency now that they are quickly forgotten, lost in the morass of similarly heartbreaking, tragic incidents. It was barely a month ago, for example, that police in Washington, DC, shot and killed 34-year-old Miriam Carey after she collided with a barrier leading to the White House, then fled when pursued by a phalanx of gun-wielding police and cop cars. Carey’s 1-year-old daughter was in the backseat. Seventeen gun shots later, Carey was dead and her toddler motherless. It was what is known as a “bad shoot.” As James Mulvaney, a professor of law and police science, explains: “A ‘good shoot’ in police lingo is one in which officers use deadly force to prevent a suspect from inflicting serious harm. A ‘bad shoot’ is one in which there might have been a nonlethal alternative.”

How should we as a society respond when we hear about the Las Vegas police officer who shot an unarmed man at a convenience store whom he “thought” was a homicide suspect, or the Los Angeles cop who shot an unarmed man seen leaving a convenience store where an ATM had been robbed of $40 or the DC cops who killed a young mother in a hail of gunfire? As John Grant notes for Counterpunch: “The ignominious and unnecessary public killing of Miriam Carey should be a human marker that triggers our cultural meaning machine to honestly consider what’s wrong with the picture of a howling pack of cops shooting down a troubled young mother … like a dog.”

If ever there were a time to de-militarize and de-weaponize local police forces, it’s now. The same goes for scaling back on the mindset adopted by cops that they are the law and should be revered, feared and obeyed. As for the idea that citizens must be compliant or risk being treated like lawbreakers, that’s nothing more than authoritarianism with a badge. As Grant points out: “As the public killing of Miriam Carey should make clear, a significant part of the problem is cops and the pack mentality they too often resort to.

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...estions-later/ (http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2013/november/04/welcome-to-the-united-police-states-of-america-where-police-shoot-first-ask-questions-later/)

[Natural Citizen]

Thanks for averting the eye of Sauron.

You're another one.

Though, to your credit, and by your own admission, you never even heard the name Ron Paul 2012. lol.

[Origanalist]

You're another one.

Though, to your credit, and by your own admission, you never even heard the name Ron Paul 2012. lol.

Hur dur, lol.

[Weston White]

It was what is known as a “bad shoot.” As James Mulvaney, a professor of law and police science, explains: “A ‘good shoot’ in police lingo is one in which officers use deadly force to prevent a suspect from inflicting serious harm. A ‘bad shoot’ is one in which there might have been a nonlethal alternative.”

I prefer the terms "execution", "assassination", or "murder." And it is not a racial issue, the police would have done that to anybody else that they considered to be a lowly "civilian." We are a neo-feudal-technocratic-democracy. Police are our baron's commissioned knights 2.0.

[jmdrake]

https://thelibertarianrepublic.com/ron-paul-support-black-lives-matter/

I support the black lives matter movement. I have long advocated an end to the drug war, police militarization, and other threats to liberty that disproportionately victimize African-Americans. However, I wish some of the black lives matter movement’s passion and energy was directed to ending abortion. Unborn black lives also matter.

Note that later Ron Paul went on to criticize the Black Lives Matter organization for its socialist agenda. But he was early on board with the idea that there is an alarming increase in police brutality and African Americans are disproportionately affected.

I will now return this forum to its regularly scheduled Trump worship and right wing identity politics.

Bump for Dannno. You can be against the socialist "solutions" of idiots like "Black Lives Matter" and yet not embrace morons who try to pretend nothing is going wrong in this country with regards to race or other issues.