In U.N. speech, Trump threatens to ‘totally destroy North Korea’ and calls Kim Jong Un ‘Rocket

[Zippyjuan]

Entire speech sounded like Bush's "Axis of Evil" speech.

One reason North Korea wants nuclear weapons is to act as a deterrent to any possible US military attack. Such words will tell them they are right to be worried and will expand rather than halt their programs.


NEW YORK — President Trump warned the United Nations in a speech Tuesday that the world faces “great peril” from rogue regimes with powerful weapons and terrorists with expanding reach across the globe, and called on fellow leaders to join the United States in the fight to defeat what he called failed or murderous ideologies and “loser terrorists.”

“We meet at a time of immense promise and great peril,” Trump said in his maiden address to more than 150 international delegations at the annual U.N. General Assembly. “It is up to us whether we will lift the world to new heights or let it fall into a valley of disrepair.”

The president's address was highly anticipated around the world for signs of how his administration would engage with the United Nations after he had criticized the organization during his campaign as being bloated and ineffective, and threatened to slash U.S. funding.

Trump offered a hand to fellow leaders but also called on them to embrace “national sovereignty” and to do more to ensure the prosperity and security of their own countries. Over and over, he stressed the rights and roles of “strong, sovereign nations” even as they band together at the United Nations.

“I will always put America first just like you, the leaders of your countries, should put your countries first,” Trump said, returning to a campaign theme and the “America First” phrase that has been criticized as isolationist and nationalistic.

The president warned of growing threats from North Korea and Iran, and he said, “The scourge of our planet is a group of rogue regimes.”

The North Korean delegation was seated, by chance, in the front row, mere feet from the U.N. podium.

Trump praised the United Nations for enacting economic sanctions on Pyongyang over its nuclear and ballistic missile tests. But he emphasized that if Kim Jong Un's regime continued to threaten the United States and to destabilize East Asia, his administration would be prepared to defend the country and its allies.

“The United States has great strength and patience, but if it is forced to defend itself or its allies, we will have no choice but to totally destroy North Korea,” Trump said, before calling Kim by a nickname he gave the dictator on Twitter over the weekend. “Rocket Man is on a suicide mission for himself.”

Trump added, “If the righteous many do not confront the wicked few, then evil will triumph.”

He also was critical of Iran and the nuclear agreement with them (every agreement seems to be the "worse ever")- calling them "an economically depleted rogue state".


Trump also called the U.N.-backed Iran nuclear deal “one of the worst and most one-sided” agreements ever, and “an embarrassment” to the United States. His voice rising, Trump strongly hinted that his administration could soon declare Tehran out of compliance. That could potentially unravel the accord. Trump and his top aides have been critical of Iran for its support of terrorism in the Middle East.

“I don't think you've heard the end of it,” Trump said.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu beamed as he and his wife, Sara, listened to Trump speak. The Israeli leader, an opponent of the international nuclear deal with Iran, was also addressing the world body later Tuesday, a day earlier than usual because he is leaving the gathering in time to spend the Jewish holy days in Israel.

“In more than 30 years of my acquaintance with the U.N., I have not heard a more courageous and sharp speech,” Netanyahu, a former Israeli ambassador to the body, said after Trump's remarks. “President Trump told the truth about the dangers lurking in the world, and called to face them forcefully to ensure the future of mankind.”

In a meeting with media executives Tuesday shortly before Trump's address, Iranian President Hassan Rouhani said Iran has complied fully with its commitments under the nuclear deal and predicted the United States will be the loser if it “tramples upon” the 2015 agreement.


“Everyone will clearly see that Iran has lived up to its agreements and that the United States is therefore a country that cannot be trusted,” Rouhani said.

“We will be the winners,” he added, while the United States “will certainly sustain losses.”

Rouhani also seemed to suggest a U.S. withdrawal would free Iran from its obligations under the deal, which lifted nuclear-related sanctions in exchange for limits on its nuclear program.

And in keeping with his "righteous" theme, said Venezuela is going to hell and called terrorists "losers".


The president also focused on the growing threats of “radical Islamic terrorism,” a phrase he had left out of other recent speeches, including a prime time address to the nation on his Afghanistan strategy. He declared that his administration would not allow “loser terrorists” to “tear up our nation or tear up the entire world.”

But Trump also cautioned that areas of the world “are in conflict and some, in fact, are going to hell.” He spent a portion of the speech decrying the “disastrous rule” of Venezuela's Nicolás Maduro, whose authoritarian regime has sent the country into political and economic crisis.

“It is completely unacceptable and we cannot stand by and watch,” Trump said, calling on the United Nations to help the Venezuelan people “regain their freedom and recover their country and restore their democracy.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/09/19/in-u-n-speech-trump-warns-that-the-world-faces-great-peril-from-rogue-regimes-in-north-korea-iran/?utm_term=.493d23952ba9

[Zippyjuan]

DPRK New Service reaction:

https://twitter.com/DPRK_News?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7 Ctwgr%5Eauthor


DPRK News Service‏ @DPRK_News 1h1 hour ago

Impotent threats by international shouting magnate Donald Trump are dismissed, as the twitchings of a Dog licking its flea-riddled scrotum.

[timosman]

Zippy the Spinmeister. Does your employer reward results or just the efforts? :cool:

[Dr.3D]

Zippy the Spinmeister. Does your employer reward results or just the efforts? :cool:
I'm sure, every kid gets a trophy.

[Zippyjuan]

Trump promoting his own properties while there: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-united-nations-speech_us_59c1120fe4b0186c2205ac3f


Trump also took the time to promote one of his New York real estate properties before giving remarks at a meeting about U.N. reform.

“I actually saw great potential right across the street, to be honest with you,” Trump said, apparently referring to his Trump World Tower property near the United Nations. “And it was only for the reason that the United Nations was here that that turned out to be such a successful project.”

[Zippyjuan]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/north-korea-latest-trump-kim-jong-un-war-nuclear-un-antonio-guterres-a7955461.html


North Korea: UN head tells Trump and Kim Jong-un 'We must not sleepwalk our way into nuclear war"

The head of the UN has issued a stark warning to Donald Trump and the leader of North Korea, saying: “We must not sleepwalk our way into nuclear war.”

In the opening address to the 2017 UN General Assembly, Secretary General Antonio Guterres said that fiery talk could lead to “fatal misunderstandings”. “This is the time for statesmanship,” he added.

Speaking as tension between North Korea and the West continues to grow following Pyongyang’s sharp escalation of its testing of intercontinental missiles and nuclear payloads and sabre-rattling from the US, Mr Guterres said “when tensions rise so does chance of miscalculation”.

[euphemia]

How many of the UN ambassadors are now living lifestyles that would be in any way sustainable in their home nations? These people are like the US Congress with less accountability. They are doing their best to funnel money to themselves and to the people who appoint them, and they do not give a flying fig about what happens back home.

For once they have heard some truth.

And other nations, North Korea included, need to stop making threats unless they want those threats answered in real terms. I'm a nonaggressor, but when someone keeps lobbing bombs our way, they need to understand that there will be a response, and a big one.

[Zippyjuan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAALGqKPaT4

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

ZippyJuan-Soros thread = must ado about nothing.





One reason North Korea wants nuclear weapons is to act as a deterrent to any possible US military attack.

Nice spin, but totally off the mark. The reason N Korea is posturing is to achieve leverage. They've been doing it for decades. They threaten and cajole in an attempt to get concessions. I suspect China is tired of propping them up, the same way Russia got tired of supporting Cuba.

China is helping push the tee vee narrative, partly because they are afraid of a flood of Korean refugees. Dumb Americans believe these big bad missile stories. The American government supports the narrative to prop up a sagging economy by pushing for more defenses contracts. That means jobs/work for Marietta GA, Kansas, and many other areas of the country.

Trump is not doing much different than previous presidents.

ZippyJuan-Soros not doing much different either on Ron Paul Forums.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

https://media.giphy.com/media/11jucxrYlHScko/giphy.gif

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

A substantial missile launch by N Korea means they would be more likely to blow themselves up than anybody else.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Think about why anybody in his right mind postures this way. Even if North Korea could launch anything substantial (they can't), it means they would be wiped off the face of the earth. There is, of course, another obvious reason. It's like the person who bluffs and threatens, but has nothing to back it up.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

What happens when a world leader gets nuclear weapons? Everyone else is threatened, thinking that the world leader will use them.

Just the opposite happens. Any use of those nuclear weapons by the world leader means he puts himself and his power in peril. World leaders have a lot to lose. They generally don't act foolishly.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Talking tough means big money. And jobs, jobs, jobs.






The 25 Biggest Defense Companies In America



#25 CACI International
Global satellite communications equipment supports military intelligence.

Arms sales: $2.3 billion

Total profit: $107 million

Employees: 13,100 people

While CACI International doesn't make weapons, they supply the U.S. Army with an information lifeline.

The TROJAN satellite communication systems provide the Army with a global network of shared mission-critical intelligence.

Source: SIPRI



#24 Goodrich
ACES II Aircrew Escape SystemGoodrich Corporation

Arms sales: $2.2 billion

Total profit: $579 million

Employees: 16,300 people

Goodrich is yet another company to get a piece of the F-35 Lightning II cake. They work on the fighter aircraft's landing system.

The U.S. Air Force trusts Goodrich with making their ejection seat of choice, the ACES II. It is most widely used ejection seat today and is credited with saving more than 600 lives.



#23 DynCorp International
DI personnel unload a propeller to be put on an Army CH-47D Chinookflikr/Kenny Holston 21

Arms sales: $2.4 billion

Total profit: $9 million

Employees: 23,000 people




DynCorp International provides logistical support to the U.S. government defense programs.

In Afghanistan, they are engaged in removing and destroying landmines and light weapons.

They are also involved with supporting air operations and have big contracts with the Department of Defense to maintain rotary and fixed-wing aircraft for all U.S. military branches.

Source: SIPRI



#22 Navistar Defense

Arms sales: $2.4 billion

Total profit: $223 million

Employees: 18,700 people

Navistar Defense is all about military-strength trucks and engines.

Their MaxxPro (Maximum Protection) product line includes MRAP (Mine Resistant Ambush Protection) vehicles used by the U.S. Marine Corps and the Army. The ambush-protected vehicle has a V-shaped hull to deflect IED blasts away from the troops inside.



#21 ManTech
ManTech expertise covers ground, airborne and space systems.flikr/Steve & Jemma Copley

Arms sales: $2.5 billion

Total profit: $125 million

Employees: 10,100 people

ManTech serves the United States government's advanced technological needs, from maintaining military surveillance systems to detecting incoming attacks on bases. They're a leading provider of C41SR technology.

The company started off in 1968 by developing the U.S. Navy's war-gaming models.



#20 Hewlett-Packard
Arms sales: $2.6 billion

Total profit: $8.7 billion

Employees: 324,600 people

They do more than office supplies and printers.

Hewlett-Packard (HP) is the creator of the Navy Marine Corps Intranet which connects more than 700,000 military and civilian employee accounts, facilitating secure defense communications.

It's network size is second only to the Internet itself.



#19 Textron
Soldiers loading a OH-58D Kiowa Warrior helicopterflikr/Fort Wainwright Public Affairs Office

Arms sales: $2.7 billion

Total profit: $86 million

Employees: 32,000 people


Textron owns a number of successful brands, such as Bell Helicopters, Cessna Aircraft Company, and Textron Systems, known for drones and armored vehicles.

They are the makers of the OH-58D Kiowa Warrior helicopter, which the U.S. Army uses in Afghanistan for armed reconnaissance and light air combat missions. It replaced the AH-Cobra attack helicopter as a scout aircraft for air cavalry troops. Two Kiowa Warriors can fit inside a C-130.



#18 Rockwell Collins
Arms sales: $2.9 billion

Total profit: $561 million

Employees: 20,000 people

Rockwell Collins focuses on navigation, communications, and aviation electronics - anything from a helmet-mounted device to a flight deck display on the colossal C-130 tanker transport aircraft.

As a big customer, the U.S. Army uses the Defense Advanced GPS Receiver, a handheld navigational device for soldiers in the field.



#17 ATK
5.56mm M855 small caliber ammunition ATK

Arms sales: $2.9 billion

Total profit: $313 million

Employees: 15,000 people


Known as ATK, this defense company is the largest provider of ammunition to the U.S. military and its allies.

From the Lake City Army Ammunition Plant in Missouri, ATK can produce up to 1.4 billion rounds of small-caliber ammunition per year.

The U.S. Navy has chosen ATK to develop their Advanced Anti-Radiation Guided Missile (AARGM).



#16 URS
U.S. Army aviation personnel are trained at Fort Rucker, Alabama.flikr/Fort Rucker

Arms sales: $3 billion

Total profit: $288 million

Employees: 47,000 people


URS is a world leader in the disposal of weapons of mass destruction.

They partner with Raytheon (#5) in the Joint, Test, Tactics, and Training (JT3) program which supports the testing and training for weapons systems such as the F-35 Lightning we keep mentioning

URS also oversees the U.S. military's Basic Combat Skills Training Course, and are responsible for training aviators from the Army, Air Force, NATO and more than 30 other U.S. allies.

You'll be seeing much more of URS around the world, as they're also behind the design of all future U.S. embassies.


#15 KBR
A Blue Angels pilot over Pensacola's Naval Air Stationflikr/Official U.S. Navy Imagery

Arms sales: $3.3 billion

Total profit: $327 million

Employees: 35,000 people

KBR's defense portfolio focuses on base operations support and maintenance services to military facilities and equipment. The U.S. Navy had KBR lead recovery and repair efforts after Hurricane Ivan destroyed parts of Naval Air Station Pensacola, Florida, in September 2004.

They're also involved in homeland security, providing systems to help secure borders.


#14 ITT Exelis
ITT technology is used for mission critical communicationsITT Exelis

Arms sales: $4 billion

Total profit: $654 million

Employees: 40,000 people


The corporation's defense branch is called Exelis and is currently partnered with Boeing in a competition to develop the U.S. military's Next Generation Jammer (NGJ) array transmitter technology.

The NGJ program aims to give U.S. troops total dominance of the electronic battlefield with the ability to disable enemy communications and radars.

The company also develops the Joint Tactical Radio System's Bowman Waveform, which allows U.S. forces to communicate securely with U.K. troops.


#13 Pratt & Whitney
The F135 engine in all its glory.Pratt & Whitney

Arms sales: $4 billion

Total profit: Contributed to parent company United Technologies' $4.7 billion

Employees: 35,000 people


Pratt & Whitney produces military engines and is responsible for the F135 engine in Lockheed Martin's F-35 Lightning II strike fighter plane, which is slated to be the Allied fighter of the 21st century.

The company also has engines in the F-22 Raptor, the C-17 Globemaster III, the B-52, and the EA-6B Prowler among other aircrafts. Their impressive client list includes 27 armed forces around the world.



#12 General Electric
Electronic warfare specialists from the British Armed Forcesflikr/MATEUS_27:25&25

Arms sales: $4.3 billion

Total profit: $11.6 billion

Employees: 287,000 people

General Electric makes electronic warfare its business. The company's defense program is focusing on military communications systems that meet the modern threat of hacking and network sabotage.

They also design products that protect both military systems and the people operating them. The IPS5100 can be used in armored vehicles to give troops 360° situational awareness with the help of panoramic imagery that can be manipulated by touch screen, joystick and game-style controller. Operators can "interact" with the imagery and have eyes on the theatre of operation while staying protected in-vehicle.


#11 Honeywell
Chinook helicopters deliver supplies to frontline troopsflikr/Defence Images

Arms sales: $5.4 billion

Total profit: $2 billion

Employees: 130,000 people


Honeywell's military arm supplies engine parts for anything from the Abrams M1 Main Battle Tank (General Dynamics) and the CH-47 Chinook (Boeing) helicopter, to weapons systems designed by other defense companies that made this list.

Name any U.S. Air Force aircraft, and you will likely find Honeywell products within its engineering.

Honeywell also comes up with covert solutions for guided weapons when relying on GPS is out of the question. Bottom line is: they make military stuff work.


#10 Computer Sciences Corp
CSC supports U.S. Navy aviation simulator training.defpro.com/U.S. Navy

Arms sales: $6 billion

Total profit: $759 million

Employees: 91,000 people

With a focus on technology-based solutions, the CSC's aerospace and defense sector is booming. Among its portfolios, it is responsible for training and simulation services for the U.S. military.

In January this year, the U.S. Navy awarded CSC a $60 million dollar task order to instruct naval aviation simulator training programs.

The U.S. Army has previously used CSC for designing battlefield simulations to help improve survivability by training soldiers and medics to save lives while under fire.



#9 Oshkosh
Keeping pace with rapidly moving forces.Oshkosh Defense

Arms sales: $7 billion

Total profit: $790 million

Employees: 12,400 people

Oshkosh Truck's defense branch is responsible for delivering severe-duty tactical and armored vehicles.

The U.S. Marine Corps recently placed a $94 million dollar order for more than 200 Oshkosh LVSR (Logistics Vehicle System Replacement) cargo trucks, the Corps' heavy-payload platform of choice since it first debuted in Afghanistan in 2009.



#8 SAIC
SAIC cyber defense services detect and counter e-attacks SAIC

Arms sales: $8.2 billion

Total profit: $618 million

Employees: 43,400 people

SAIC's national security sector provides the Department of Defense, the FBI and other U.S. government civil agencies with engineering systems and anti-terrorism technologies.

The SAIC Force Protection Suite, an integrated surveillance system, is used by U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan to decide when and how to respond to enemy threat.


#7 United Technologies
Black Hawk helicopters serving the U.S. Army in Afghanistan.flikr/USACEpublicaffairs

Arms sales: $11.4 billion

Total profit: $4.7 billion

Employees: 208,220 people

United Technologies' military services business is most noted for the UH-60 Black Hawk helicopter, manufactured by subsidiary Sikorsky Aircraft.

The corporation also develops technology for aerospace and building industries.


#6 L-3 Communications
SPYDR is an Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance (ISR) beast.L-3 Communications

Arms sales: $13 billion

Total profit: $95.5 million

Employees: 63,000 people

The company's C3ISR (Command, Control, Communications, Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance) solutions are used by all branches of the U.S. military.

L-3 Communications says their small manned airborne intelligence-gathering platform, aptly named SPYDR, is the most versatile and inescapable in the world. It casts a "web" that captures mission-critical intelligence about its targets and delivers the information in real time.


#5 Raytheon
Raytheon's guided missile system.Raytheon

Arms sales: $23 billion

Total profit: $1.9 billion

Employees: 46,900 people

Raytheon's sectors of expertise are missiles and electronics.

Their intelligence and information systems are used by the Missile Defence Agency, NASA, the Department of Defense and even the United Kingdom's Border Agency.


#4 General Dynamics
The Abrams M1 Main Battle Tank flikr/MATEUS_27:25&25

Arms sales: $24 billion

Total profit: $2.6 billion

Employees: 90,000 people

General Dynamics produces military vehicles such as the legendary Abrams M1 Main Battle Tank, as well as ships, munitions, and military-grade communication systems.

The company has also been awarded an $8 million dollar contract for work on U.S. Navy nuclear-powered attack submarines.


#3 Northrop Grumann
Crew working inside the E-2C Hawkeye, the "eyes" of the U.S. Navy fleet.Northrop Grumann

Arms sales: $28 billion

Total profit: $2 billion

Employees: 117,100 people

Northrop Grumann's areas of focus include drones and cyber security in support of its homeland security solutions.

They also develop CBRNE (Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear and Explosives) detection systems in place around the U.S. to identify potential threats.

The corporation recently pledged to further deepen its commitment to hiring former service members, in partnership with President Obama's Joining Forces initiative to integrate more veterans into the civilian workforce.



#2 Boeing
Air Force One, the most recognized symbol of the U.S. presidency.Boeing

Arms sales: $31.4 billion

Total profit: $2.9 billion

Employees: 160,500 people

The military arm of Boeing's business is most known for the Global Strike military aircraft program.

It supplies the U.S. military and other international forces with the likes of the AH-64D Apache combat helicopter, drones, missiles like the A160T Hummingbird, and the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet strike fighter.

The U.S. Air Force favors the F-15E Strike Eagle, which has a perfect air-to-air combat record so far with more than a hundred victories and no losses.



#1 Lockheed Martin
The F35-A test fleet stationed at Edwards Air Force Base.Lockheed Martin

Arms sales: $35.7 billion

Total profit: $2.9 billion

Employees: 132,000 people

Lockheed Martin's main weapons system is the F-35 joint strike fighter, expected to become one of the world's largest military aircraft programs.

In expanding their F-35 program, Lockheed Martin opened a manufacturing facility in Pinellas Park, Florida, to develop parts for the F-35 Lightning II fighter.
Many of the products produced by these companies are available nowhere else in the world

http://www.businessinsider.com/top-25-us-defense-companies-2012-2?op=1/#-caci-international-1

[Zippyjuan]

Also from the speech: https://qz.com/1081499/unga-2017-trump-mentioned-sovereignty-21-times-in-a-speech-heralding-a-new-american-view-of-the-world/


“We do not expect diverse countries to share the same cultures, traditions, or even systems of government, but we do expect all nations to uphold these two core sovereign duties: to respect the interests of their own people and the rights of every other sovereign nation.”

“Strong sovereign nations let diverse countries with different values, different cultures, and different dreams not just coexist, but work side by side on the basis of mutual respect.”

We should tolerate and welcome countries we don't agree with. Unless we don't agree with them- then it is OK to threaten them (Korea, Iran, Venezuela, Syria, Muslim countries). He mentioned sovereignty over 20 times in his speech.


“In America, we do not seek to impose our way of life on anyone, but rather to let it shine as an example for everyone to watch,”


Trump asserted that when the UN was founded after World War Two, “we did not seek territorial expansion or attempt to oppose and impose our way of life on others. Instead, we helped build institutions such as this one to defend sovereignty, security, and prosperity for all.”

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Also from the speech:

GoldenEquity already made a thread with the full text of the speech (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?515094-Trump-UN-Speech-Transcript). He did it before you made your thread, but you continue to post nonsense.

If you're going to start a thread, then that's the way to lead it off. You start with primary source info like the full text of the speech. Not a Washington Post article, which--by the way--you conveniently did not cite.

I'm sure you don't have much pull, but do me a favor and tell your boss I want to talk with Soros. Tell him to get his ass on here. Richard Spencer was on here, but he got banned. I'm sure Soros won't get banned.


LOL

[Zippyjuan]

GoldenEquity already made a thread with the full text of the speech (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?515094-Trump-UN-Speech-Transcript). He did it before you made your thread, but you continue to post nonsense.

If you're going to start a thread, then that's the way to lead it off. You start with primary source info like the full text of the speech. Not a Washington Post article, which--by the way--you conveniently did not cite.

I'm sure you don't have much pull, but do me a favor and tell your boss I want to talk with Soros. Tell him to get his ass on here. Richard Spencer was on here, but he got banned. I'm sure Soros won't get banned.


LOL

Golden Equity posted the text 45 minutes after this thread was started. Thanks anyways.

[Ender]

GoldenEquity already made a thread with the full text of the speech (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?515094-Trump-UN-Speech-Transcript). He did it before you made your thread, but you continue to post nonsense.

If you're going to start a thread, then that's the way to lead it off. You start with primary source info like the full text of the speech. Not a Washington Post article, which--by the way--you conveniently did not cite.

I'm sure you don't have much pull, but do me a favor and tell your boss I want to talk with Soros. Tell him to get his ass on here. Richard Spencer was on here, but he got banned. I'm sure Soros won't get banned.


LOL

Look, I get that you hate Zip, but can these hate posts just STOP? It is totally detracting from the subject, which is rather important, keeps Zip's posts at the top, which should be something not wanted by Zip-haters, and BTW-

Zippy posted first, not goldenequity. :p

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Golden Equity posted the text 45 minutes after this thread was started. Thanks anyways.

Ah, my mistake. I read the wrong time stamps. Thank you for the correction!

[Zippyjuan]

Look, I get that you hate Zip, but can these hate posts just STOP? It is totally detracting from the subject, which is rather important, keeps Zip's posts at the top, which should be something not wanted by Zip-haters, and BTW-

Zippy posted first, not goldenequity. :p

That is the idea- don't address content but try to bury it with drivel and attacks.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Look, I get that you hate Zip, but can these hate posts just STOP?

"Hate posts." LOL. Oh come on, Ender. You're one notch away from the snowflake term, "hate speech."

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

That is the idea- don't address content but try to bury it with drivel and attacks.


I substantially addressed the UN speech issue. You however, come here attacking the forum and everyone here, constantly burying important issues with your drivel. Is that your idea?

[Zippyjuan]

I substantially addressed the UN speech issue. You however, come here attacking the forum and everyone here, constantly burying important issues with your drivel. Is that your idea?

No, that is yours.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Yet to be posted by the OP is the actual speech. It is below, free from spin and forum attacking nonsense.





Mr. Secretary General, Mr. President, world leaders, and distinguished delegates, welcome to New York. It is a profound honor to stand here in my home city as a representative of the American people to address the people of the world. As millions of our citizens continue to suffer the effects of the devastating hurricanes that have struck our country, I want to begin by expressing my appreciation to every leader in this room who has offered assistance and aid. The American people are strong and resilient, and they will emerge from these hardships more determined than ever before.

Fortunately, the United States has done very well since Election Day last November 8. The stock market is at an all-time high, a record. Unemployment is at its lowest level in 16 years, and because of our regulatory and other reforms, we have more people working in the United States today than ever before. Companies are moving back, creating job growth, the likes of which our country has not seen in a very long time, and it has just been announced that we will be spending almost $700 billion on our military and defense. Our military will soon be the strongest it has ever been. For more than 70 years, in times of war and peace, the leaders of nations, movements, and religions have stood before this assembly.

Like them, I intend to address some of the very serious threats before us today, but also the enormous potential waiting to be unleashed. We live in a time of extraordinary opportunity. Breakthroughs in science, technology, and medicine are curing illnesses and solving problems that prior generations thought impossible to solve. But each day also brings news of growing dangers that threaten everything we cherish and value. Terrorists and extremists have gathered strength and spread to every region of the planet. Rogue regimes represented in this body not only support terror but threaten other nations and their own people with the most destructive weapons known to humanity.

Authority and authoritarian powers seek to collapse the values, the systems, and alliances, that prevented conflict and tilted the word toward freedom since World War II. International criminal networks traffic drugs, weapons, people, force dislocation and mass migration, threaten our borders and new forms of aggression exploit technology to menace our citizens. To put it simply, we meet at a time of both immense promise and great peril. It is entirely up to us whether we lift the world to new heights or let it fall into a valley of disrepair. We have it in our power, should we so choose, to lift millions from poverty, to help our citizens realize their dreams, and to ensure that new generations of children are raised free from violence, hatred, and fear.

This institution was founded in the aftermath of two world wars, to help shape this better future. It was based on the vision that diverse nations could cooperate to protect their sovereignty, preserve their security, and promote their prosperity. It was in the same period exactly 70 years ago that the United States developed the Marshall Plan to help restore Europe. Those these beautiful pillars, they are pillars of peace, sovereignty, security, and prosperity. The Marshall Plan was built on the noble idea that the whole world is safer when nations are strong, independent, and free. As president, Truman said in his message to congress at that time, our support of European recovery is in full accord with our support of the United Nations.

The success of the United Nations depends upon the independent strength of its members. To overcome the perils of the present, and to achieve the promise of the future, we must begin with the wisdom of the past. Our success depends on a coalition of strong and independent nations that embrace their sovereignty, to promote security, prosperity, and peace, for themselves and for the world. We do not expect diverse countries to share the same cultures, traditions, or even systems of government, but we do expect all nations to uphold these two core sovereign duties, to respect the interests of their own people and the rights of every other sovereign nation.

This is the beautiful vision of this institution, and this is the foundation for cooperation and success. Strong sovereign nations let diverse countries with different values, different cultures, and different dreams not just coexist, but work side by side on the basis of mutual respect. Strong sovereign nations let their people take ownership of the future and control their own destiny. And strong sovereign nations allow individuals to flourish in the fullness of the life intended by God. In America, we do not seek to impose our way of life on anyone, but rather to let it shine as an example for everyone to watch.

This week gives our country a special reason to take pride in that example. We are celebrating the 230th anniversary of our beloved Constitution, the oldest constitution still in use in the world today. This timeless document has been the foundation of peace, prosperity, and freedom for the Americans and for countless millions around the globe whose own countries have found inspiration in its respect for human nature, human dignity, and the rule of law. The greatest in the united States Constitution is its first three beautiful words. They are "We the people." Generations of Americans have sacrificed to maintain the promise of those words, the promise of our country and of our great history.

In America, the people govern, the people rule, and the people are sovereign. I was elected not to take power, but to give power to the American people where it belongs. In foreign affairs, we are renewing this founding principle of sovereignty. Our government's first duty is to its people, to our citizens, to serve their needs, to ensure their safety, to preserve their rights, and to defend their values. As president of the United States, I will always put America first. Just like you, as the leaders of your countries, will always and should always put your countries first.

All responsible leaders have an obligation to serve their own citizens, and the nation state remains the best vehicle for elevating the human condition. But making a better life for our people also requires us to with work together in close harmony and unity, to create a more safe and peaceful future for all people.

The United States will forever be a great friend to the world and especially to its allies. But we can no longer be taken advantage of or enter into a one-sided deal where the United States gets nothing in return. As long as I hold this office, I will defend America's interests above all else, but in fulfilling our obligations to our nations, we also realize that it's in everyone's interests to seek the future where all nations can be sovereign, prosperous, and secure.

America does more than speak for the values expressed in the United Nations charter. Our citizens have paid the ultimate price to defend our freedom and the freedom of many nations represented in this great hall. America's devotion is measured on the battlefields where our young men and women have fought and sacrificed alongside of our allies. From the beaches of Europe to the deserts of the Middle East to the jungles of Asia, it is an eternal credit to the American character that even after we and our allies emerge victorious from the bloodiest war in history, we did not seek territorial expansion or attempt to oppose and impose our way of life on others. Instead, we helped build institutions such as this one to defend the sovereignty, security, and prosperity for all. For the diverse nations of the world, this is our hope.

We want harmony and friendship, not conflict and strife. We are guided by outcomes, not ideologies. We have a policy of principled realism, rooted in shared goal, interests, and values. That realism forces us to confront the question facing every leader and nation in this room, it is a question we cannot escape or avoid. We will slide down the path of complacency, numb to the challenges, threats, and even wars that we face, or do we have enough strength and pride to confront those dangers today so that our citizens can enjoy peace and prosperity tomorrow.

If we desire to lift up our citizens, if we aspire to the approval of history, then we must fulfill our sovereign duties to the people we faithfully represent. We must protect our nations, their interests and their futures. We must reject threats to sovereignty from the Ukraine to the South China Sea. We must uphold respect for law, respect for borders, and respect for culture, and the peaceful engagement these allow.

And just as the founders of this body intended, we must work together and confront together those who threatens us with chaos, turmoil, and terror. The score of our planet today is small regimes that violate every principle that the United Nations is based. They respect neither their own citizens nor the sovereign rights of their countries. If the righteous many do not confront the wicked few, then evil will triumph. When decent people and nations become bystanders to history, the forces of destruction only gather power and strength.

No one has shown more contempt for other nations and for the well-being of their own people than the depraved regime in North Korea. It is responsible for the starvation deaths of millions of North Koreans. And for the imprisonment, torture, killing, and oppression of countless more. We were all witness to the regime's deadly abuse when an innocent American college student, Otto Warmbier, was returned to America, only to die a few days later.

We saw it in the assassination of the dictator's brother, using banned nerve agents in an international airport. We know it kidnapped a sweet 13-year-old Japanese girl from a beach in her own country, to enslave her as a language tutor for North Korea's spies. If this is not twisted enough, now North Korea's reckless pursuit of nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles threatens the entire world with unthinkable loss of human life. It is an outrage that some nations would not only trade with such a regime, but would arm, supply, and financially support a country that imperils the world with nuclear conflict.

No nation on Earth has an interest in seeing this band of criminals arm itself with nuclear weapons and missiles. The United States has great strength and patience, but if it is forced to defend itself or its allies, we will have no choice but to totally destroy North Korea. Rocket man is on a suicide mission for himself and for his regime. The United States is ready, willing, and able, but hopefully this will not be necessary. That's what the United Nations is all about. That's what the United Nations is for. Let's see how they do.

It is time for North Korea to realize that the denuclearization is its only acceptable future. The United Nations Security Council recently held two unanimous 15-0 votes adopting hard-hitting resolutions against North Korea, and I want to thank China and Russia for joining the vote to impose sanctions, along with all of the other members of the Security Council. Thank you to all involved. But we must do much more.

It is time for all nations to work together to isolate the Kim regime until it ceases its hostile behavior. We face this decision not only in North Korea; it is far past time for the nations of the world to confront another reckless regime, one that speaks openly of mass murder, vowing death to America, destruction to Israel, and ruin for many leaders and nations in this room.

The Iranian government masks a corrupt dictatorship behind the false guise of a democracy. It has turned a wealthy country, with a rich history and culture, into an economically depleted rogue state whose chief exports are violence, bloodshed, and chaos. The longest-suffering victims of Iran's leaders are, in fact, its own people. Rather than use its resources to improve Iranian live, its oil profits go to fund Hezbollah and other terrorists that kill innocent Muslims and attack their peaceful Arab and Israeli neighbors.

This wealth, which rightly belongs to Iran's people, also goes to shore up Bashar al-Assad's dictatorship, fuel Yemen's civil war, and undermine peace throughout the entire Middle East. We cannot let a murderous regime continue these destabilizing activities while building dangerous missiles, and we cannot abide by an agreement if it provides cover for the eventual construction of a nuclear program. The Iran deal was one of the worst and most one-sided transactions the United States has ever entered into. Frankly, that deal is an embarrassment to the United States, and I don't think you've heard the last of it. Believe me.

It is time for the entire world to join us in demanding that Iran's government end its pursuit of death and destruction. It is time for the regime to free all Americans and citizens of other nations that they have unjustly detained. Above all, Iran's government must stop supporting terrorists, begin serving its own people, and respect the sovereign rights of its neighbors. The entire world understands that the good people of Iran want change, and, other than the vast military power of the United States, that Iran's people are what their leaders fear the most. This is what causes the regime to restrict internet access, tear down satellite dishes, shoot unarmed student protesters, and imprison political reformers.

Oppressive regimes cannot endure forever, and the day will come when the people will face a choice. Will they continue down the path of poverty, bloodshed, and terror, or will the Iranian people return to the nation's proud roots as a center of civilization, culture, and wealth, where their people can be happy and prosperous once again? The Iranian regime's support for terror is in stark contrast to the recent commitments of many of its neighbors to fight terrorism and halt its finance, and in Saudi Arabia early last year, I was greatly honored to address the leaders of more than 50 Arab and Muslim nations. We agreed that all responsible nations must work together to confront terrorists and the Islamic extremism that inspires them.

We will stop radical islamic terrorism because we cannot allow it to tear up our nation and, indeed, to tear up the entire world. We must deny the terrorists' safe haven, transit, funding, and any form of support for their vile and sinister ideology. We must drive them out of our nation. It is time to expose and hold responsible those countries whose support and fi — who support and finance terror groups like al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, the Taliban, and others that slaughter innocent people.

The United States and our allies are working together throughout the Middle East to crush the loser terrorists and stop the reemergence of safe havens they use to launch attacks on all of our people. Last month I announced a new strategy for victory in the fight against this evil in Afghanistan. From now on, our security interests will dictate the length and scope of military operation, not arbitrary benchmarks and timetables set up by politicians. I have also totally changed the rules of engagement in our fight against the Taliban and other terrorist groups.

In Syria and Iraq, we have made big gains toward lasting defeat of ISIS. In fact, our country has achieved more against ISIS in the last eight months than it has in many, many years combined. We seek the deescalation of the Syrian conflict, and a political solution that honors the will of the Syrian people. The actions of the criminal regime of Bashar al-Assad, including the use of chemical weapons against his own citizens, even innocent children, shock the conscience of every decent person. No society could be safe if banned chemical weapons are allowed to spread. That is why the United States carried out a missile strike on the airbase that launched the attack.

We appreciate the efforts of the United Nations' agencies that are providing vital humanitarian assistance in areas liberated from ISIS, and we especially thank Jordan, Turkey, and Lebanon for their role in hosting refugees from the Syrian conflict. The United States is a compassionate nation and has spent billions and billions of dollars in helping to support this effort. We seek an approach to refugee resettlement that is designed to help these horribly treated people and which enables their eventual return to their home countries to be part of the rebuilding process. For the cost of resettling one refugee in the United States, we can assist more than 10 in their home region.

Out of the goodness of our hearts, we offer financial assistance to hosting countries in the region and we support recent agreements of the G20 nations that will seek to host refugees as close to their home countries as possible. This is the safe, responsible, and humanitarian approach. For decades the United States has dealt with migration challenges here in the Western Hemisphere.

We have learned that over the long term, uncontrolled migration is deeply unfair to both the sending and the receiving countries. For the sending countries, it reduces domestic pressure to pursue needed political and economic reform and drains them of the human capital necessary to motivate and implement those reforms. For the receiving countries, the substantial costs of uncontrolled migration are born overwhelmingly by low-income citizens whose concerns are often ignored by both media and government.

I want to salute the work of the United Nations in seeking to address the problems that cause people to flee from their home. The United Nations and African Union led peacekeeping missions to have invaluable contributions in stabilizing conflict in Africa. The United States continues to lead the world in humanitarian assistance, including famine prevention and relief, in South Sudan, Somalia, and northern Nigeria and Yemen.

We have invested in better health and opportunity all over the world through programs like PEPFAR, which funds AIDS relief, the President’s Malaria Initiative, the Global Health Security Agenda, the Global Fund to End Modern Slavery, and the Women Entrepreneur's Finance Initiative, part of our commitment to empowering women all across the globe.

We also thank — we also thank the secretary general for recognizing that the United Nations must reform if it is to be an effective partner in confronting threats to sovereignty, security, and prosperity. Too often the focus of this organization has not been on results, but on bureaucracy and process. In some cases, states that seek to subvert this institution's noble end have hijacked the very systems that are supposed to advance them. For example, it is a massive source of embarrassment to the United Nations that some governments with egregious human rights records sit on the UN Human Rights Council.

The United States is one out of 193 countries in the United Nations, and yet we pay 22 percent of the entire budget and more. In fact, we pay far more than anybody realizes. The United States bears an unfair cost burden, but to be fair, if it could actually accomplish all of its stated goals, especially the goal of peace, this investment would easily be well worth it. Major portions of the world are in conflict, and some, in fact, are going to hell, but the powerful people in this room, under the guidance and auspices of the United Nations, can solve many of these vicious and complex problems. The American people hope that one day soon the United Nations can be a much more accountable and effective advocate for human dignity and freedom around the world.

In the meantime, we believe that no nation should have to bear a disproportionate share of the burden, militarily or financially. Nations of the world must take a greater role in promoting secure and prosperous societies in their own region. That is why in the Western Hemisphere the United States has stood against the corrupt, destabilizing regime in Cuba and embraced the enduring dream of the Cuban people to live in freedom.

My administration recently announced that we will not lift sanctions on the Cuban government until it makes fundamental reforms. We have also imposed tough calibrated sanctions on the socialist Maduro regime in Venezuela, which has brought a once thriving nation to the brink of total collapse. The socialist dictatorship of Nicolás Maduro has inflicted terrible pain and suffering on the good people of that country.

This corrupt regime destroyed a prosperous nation — prosperous nation, by imposing a failed ideology that has produced poverty and misery everywhere it has been tried. To make matters worse, Maduro has defied his own people, stealing power from their elected representatives, to preserve his disastrous rule. The Venezuelan people are starving, and their country is collapsing. Their democratic institutions are being destroyed. The situation is completely unacceptable, and we cannot stand by and watch.

As a responsible neighbor and friend, we and all others have a goal — that goal is to help them regain their freedom, recover their country, and restore their democracy. I would like to thank leaders in this room for condemning the regime and providing vital support to the Venezuelan people. The United States has taken important steps to hold the regime accountable. We are prepared to take further action if the government of Venezuela persists on its path to impose authoritarian rule on the Venezuelan people.

We are fortunate to have incredibly strong and healthy trade relationships with many of the Latin American countries gathered here today. Our economic bond forms a critical foundation for advancing peace and prosperity for all of our people and all of our neighbors. I ask every country represented here today to be prepared to do more to address this very real crisis. We call for the full restoration of democracy and political freedoms in Venezuela. The problem in Venezuela is not that socialism has been poorly implemented, but that socialism has been faithfully implemented.

From the Soviet Union to Cuba to Venezuela, wherever true socialism or communism has been adopted, it has delivered anguish and devastation and failure. Those who preach the tenets of these discredited ideologies only contribute to the continued suffering of the people who live under these cruel systems. America stands with every person living under a brutal regime. Our respect for sovereignty is also a call for action. All people deserve a government that cares for their safety, their interests, and their well-being, including their prosperity. In America, we seek stronger ties of business and trade with all nations of goodwill, but this trade must be fair and it must be reciprocal.

For too long the American people were told that mammoth, multinational trade deals, unaccountable international tribunals, and powerful global bureaucracies were the best way to promote their success. But as those promises flowed, millions of jobs vanished and thousands of factories disappeared. Others gamed the system and broke the rules, and our great middle class, once the bedrock of American prosperity, was forgotten and left behind, but they are forgotten no more and they will never be forgotten again.

While America will pursue cooperation and commerce with other nations, we are renewing our commitment to the first duty of every government, the duty of our citizens. This bond is the source of America's strength and that of every responsible nation represented here today. If this organization is to have any hope of successfully confronting the challenges before us, it will depend, as President Truman said some 70 years ago, on the independent strength of its members. If we are to embrace the opportunities of the future and overcome the present dangers together, there can be no substantive for strong, sovereign, and independent nations, nations that are rooted in the histories and invested in their destiny, nations that seek allies to befriend, not enemies to conquer, and most important of all, nations that are home to men and women who are willing to sacrifice for their countries, their fellow citizens, and for all that is best in the human spirit.

In remembering the great victory that led to this body's founding, we must never forget that those heroes who fought against evil, also fought for the nations that they love. Patriotism led the Poles to die to save Poland, the French to fight for a free France, and the Brits to stand strong for Britain. Today, if we do not invest ourselves, our hearts, our minds, and our nations, if we will not build strong families, safe communities, and healthy societies for ourselves, no one can do it for us.

This is the ancient wish of every people and the deepest yearning that lives inside every sacred soul. So let this be our mission, and let this be our message to the world. We will fight together, sacrifice together, and stand together for peace, for freedom, for justice, for family, for humanity, and for the almighty God who made us all. Thank you, God bless you, God bless the nations of the world, and God bless the United States of America. Thank you very much.

[Zippyjuan]

Yet to be posted by the OP is the actual speech. It is below, free from spin and forum attacking nonsense.

Thank you for supporting what the OP says.

[timosman]

Thank you for supporting what the OP says.

NCL should apologize for not highlighting the most important parts though. Unless you have somebody in your office who does that for you.:cool:

[Zippyjuan]

Sad. Nobody actually discusses issues anymore. Who cares that Trump threatened to completely destroy an entire country? The forum is officially dead.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Thank you for supporting what the OP says.


It doesn't say that. Not only did you not post the speech--you didn't even post a link to your article. Isn't it from the Washington Post?

If you actually wanted to have an honest discussion, then you would have posted the text of the speech. That's primary source information. That's the starting point.

[Zippyjuan]

It doesn't say that. Not only did you not post the speech--you didn't even post a link to your article. Isn't it from the Washington Post?

If you actually wanted to have an honest discussion, then you would have posted the text of the speech. That's primary source information. That's the starting point.


What portions of the speech would you like to discuss?

(Sorry I missed adding the link- I have corrected the problem).

[timosman]

"Hate posts." LOL. Oh come on, Ender. You're one notch away from the snowflake term, "hate speech."

Ender is an advocate of a "balanced" approach. Nobody should be subjected to criticism of their posts. Even if they constantly spam the forum with ridiculous claims from their bunker in Venezuela.:cool:

[euphemia]

We should tolerate and welcome countries we don't agree with. Unless we don't agree with them- then it is OK to threaten them (Korea, Iran, Venezuela, Syria, Muslim countries). He mentioned sovereignty over 20 times in his speech.

Zip, have you not been watching North Korea shoot bombs toward Japan? Pal, that's about as clear a threat as can be made anywhere. Granted North Korea is pretty small potatoes, but not when you look at the leviathan that is China just to the north. I cannot imagine that the people who surround and protect him see that impotent little worm as any kind of world power. There is something else propping him up. The sabre rattling has to stop. Kim Jong Un is a pernicious little turd, and he needs to cut it out.

[timosman]

What portions of the speech would you like to discuss?

Have a go:

The problem in Venezuela is not that socialism has been poorly implemented, but that socialism has been faithfully implemented.

[Zippyjuan]

Have a go:

The problem in Venezuela is not that socialism has been poorly implemented, but that socialism has been faithfully implemented.

What are your thoughts on that? Is that a significant portion of the speech?

[Ender]

"Hate posts." LOL. Oh come on, Ender. You're one notch away from the snowflake term, "hate speech."

Riiiiiiiiiiiggghhhhttttt.......

I'm a snowflake if I would like to see honest discussion instead of constant attacks on certain messengers. :rolleyes:

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Sad. Nobody actually discusses issues anymore.

LOL. You posted 4 minutes after I posted the actual speech. There's virtually no way you read the speech in that amount of time.

Sad, indeed.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Riiiiiiiiiiiggghhhhttttt.......

I'm a snowflake if I would like to see honest discussion instead of constant attacks on certain messengers. :rolleyes:

Talking to the wrong guy, pal. I am not the one attacking this forum and constantly attacking multiple, legit people here.

[timosman]

Riiiiiiiiiiiggghhhhttttt.......

I'm a snowflake if I would like to see honest discussion instead of constant attacks on certain messengers. :rolleyes:

I think it is time to clarify what the message of "certain messengers" is.:cool:

[Ender]

Zip, have you not been watching North Korea shoot bombs toward Japan? Pal, that's about as clear a threat as can be made anywhere. Granted North Korea is pretty small potatoes, but not when you look at the leviathan that is China just to the north. I cannot imagine that the people who surround and protect him see that impotent little worm as any kind of world power. There is something else propping him up. The sabre rattling has to stop. Kim Jong Un is a pernicious little turd, and he needs to cut it out.

Do YOU have any idea that the whole Korea problem was caused by the good ol' US of A? That we should keep our fucking noses out of other countries and only come forth in defense?

If Kim Jong Un is a "pernicious little turd", it ain't our business- we already have one of those in the White House and we need to get HIM to cut it out- that is OUR responsibility.

[Ender]

I think it is time to clarify what the message of "certain messengers" is.:cool:

You've been doing that for months- tiresome.........

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

What portions of the speech would you like to discuss?



I'll discuss it with people who actually want to have an honest discussion about it. That is obviously not you.

As per your "drivel" comment, I made substantial posts at 9, 11, 12. 13, and 14. Post 10 is a humor post that partly supports what I said about North Korea blowing itself up.

[Zippyjuan]

LOL. You posted 4 minutes after I posted the actual speech. There's virtually no way you read the speech in that amount of time.

Sad, indeed.

Thank you for your relevant contribution to the topic of the thread. Yep- the forum is indeed dead.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

You've been doing that for months- tiresome.........


Commenting on someone who's been doing it for years.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Thank you for your relevant contribution to the topic of the thread.


So I was right? You didn't actually even read the speech? Thank you for confirming my point about your disingenuousness.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

ZippyJuan,

Did you actually read the speech?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Yep- the forum is indeed dead.


The forum is officially dead.


You wish.

LOL at your spin. Twice!

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

What do you think are some of the more important points Trump made during the speech?*
Why are you asking?







*Taken from the other thread because I don't want that thread littered.

[nobody's_hero]

Do YOU have any idea that the whole Korea problem was caused by the good ol' US of A? That we should keep our $#@!ing noses out of other countries and only come forth in defense?

If Kim Jong Un is a "pernicious little turd", it ain't our business- we already have one of those in the White House and we need to get HIM to cut it out- that is OUR responsibility.

Let's be fair. The USSR was at least 50% responsible for the current state of Korea, or maybe 33%. The thing would have been resolved entirely if China hadn't freaked out. North Korea was almost beat when they sent the horde over the Yalu River.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Informative discussions like this is why thousands of visitors stop by the site daily.



Users active in the past 24 hours

8452 Users have visited the forum. 184 members and 8268 guests
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/forum.php (bottom of page)





It's pretty easy, Zip. Treat people with respect and you will be treated with respect. Act like a dirtbag, and you get treated like a dirtbag. Simple as that.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Let's be fair. The USSR was at least 50% responsible for the current state of Korea, or maybe 33%. The thing would have been resolved entirely if China hadn't freaked out. North Korea was almost beat when they sent the horde over the Yalu River.


Agree. Things like this are seldom one-sided.

[r3volution 3.0]

Entire speech sounded like Bush's "Axis of Evil" speech.

Yup

His purpose was to characterize the Nork regime as irrational, to preempt any arguments that we should just let them be and rely on MAD.

...same as the neocons have been doing with Iran for decades.

It was a war speech. He's a warmonger.

[phill4paul]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, and please correct me if I am, but didn't N. Korea launch a ballistic missile OVER an allied nation?

[dannno]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, and please correct me if I am, but didn't N. Korea launch a ballistic missile OVER an allied nation?

Ya, I think it was Japan.

[timosman]

Thank you for your relevant contribution to the topic of the thread. Yep- the forum is indeed dead.

If it is dead, why are you trying so hard? Let it go. Maybe the next one you will get reassigned to will be alive.

[Swordsmyth]

Our best hope is that he is only pretending to be on the path to war to bluff China and Russia into cooperating more, and to help Abe militarize Japan.

[timosman]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, and please correct me if I am, but didn't N. Korea launch a ballistic missile OVER an allied nation?

The altitude was such that it did not violate their air space.

[phill4paul]

The altitude was such that it did not violate their air space.

Ah, thank you for the clarification. I admit I've not been keeping up with the situation.

[dannno]

If it is dead, why are you trying so hard? Let it go. Maybe the next one you will get reassigned to will be alive.

The alexa ranking back in October '16, just before the election, was down around 250k. It spiked up to 150k around the election and after innaugeration, through about May or June. Now we are back down to 200k. So, better than we were a year ago when CPUd was jamming up the forum with MSM anti-Trump bs all day long.

[Swordsmyth]

Mattis: Options exist that wouldn't put Seoul at riskhttp://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2017/09/18/tl-sciutto-mattis-north-korea-jake-tapper.cnn




And just what would those options be?

[spudea]

Sad. Nobody actually discusses issues anymore. Who cares that Trump threatened to completely destroy an entire country? The forum is officially dead.

You seem to be completely ignoring what he said there, i.e. self defense and hopefully not necessary.

"The United States has great strength and patience, but if it is forced to defend itself or its allies, we will have no choice but to totally destroy North Korea. Rocket man is on a suicide mission for himself and for his regime. The United States is ready, willing, and able, but hopefully this will not be necessary."

Ron Paul has spoken about the Just war theory. The theory has several criteria that could very well apply to the North Korea situation. The North Korea Regime is most certainly a public evil that needs to be confronted. Or are you suggesting complete Pacifism and North Korea can do whatever they want?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war_theory#Criteria_of_just_war_theory

[nikcers]

a conflict or campaign utilizing psychological means to unsettle an opponent or to destroy morale

[timosman]

a conflict or campaign utilizing psychological means to unsettle an opponent or to destroy morale

Would China allow it? If it would, would it be necessary at all?

[Zippyjuan]

You seem to be completely ignoring what he said there, i.e. self defense and hopefully not necessary.

"The United States has great strength and patience, but if it is forced to defend itself or its allies, we will have no choice but to totally destroy North Korea. Rocket man is on a suicide mission for himself and for his regime. The United States is ready, willing, and able, but hopefully this will not be necessary."

Ron Paul has spoken about the Just war theory. The theory has several criteria that could very well apply to the North Korea situation. The North Korea Regime is most certainly a public evil that needs to be confronted. Or are you suggesting complete Pacifism and North Korea can do whatever they want?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war_theory#Criteria_of_just_war_theory

Making threats against Korea will convince them that they really do need nuclear weapons- it won't convince them to give them up. If the goal is to disarm North Korea, he is reducing his option to actually using military force on them (not that other options actually exist other than accepting the fact that they have nuclear arms). It makes war even more likely.

[nikcers]

Would China allow it? If it would, would it be necessary at all?

I don't know how China can get mad at psychological warfare. I would definitely put all my money on whatever company makes those defensive ballistic missile systems.

[Raginfridus]

You seem to be completely ignoring what he said there, i.e. self defense and hopefully not necessary.

"The United States has great strength and patience, but if it is forced to defend itself or its allies, we will have no choice but to totally destroy North Korea. Rocket man is on a suicide mission for himself and for his regime. The United States is ready, willing, and able, but hopefully this will not be necessary."

Ron Paul has spoken about the Just war theory. The theory has several criteria that could very well apply to the North Korea situation. The North Korea Regime is most certainly a public evil that needs to be confronted. Or are you suggesting complete Pacifism and North Korea can do whatever they want?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_war_theory#Criteria_of_just_war_theory

You seem to be completely ignoring that we, the United Bases of Murka, in conjunction with our illegitimate regime in Ukraine, gave Kim Jong Un the missile parts! :rolleyes:

C'mon people, where have we seen this shit before?

[ProBlue33]

Sad. Nobody actually discusses issues anymore. Who cares that Trump threatened to completely destroy an entire country? The forum is officially dead.

You know the only reason you aren't banned is you literally paid to stay here, why do you torture yourself with your perpetual futility on RPF ???

[The Rebel Poet]

Riiiiiiiiiiiggghhhhttttt.......

I'm a snowflake if I would like to see honest discussion instead of constant attacks on certain messengers. :rolleyes:

Zippy is his hate-crush; don't be a killjoy.

[Ender]

Zippy is his hate-crush; don't be a killjoy.

Oh, right- sorry! :eek::p;)

[Zippyjuan]

You know the only reason you aren't banned is you literally paid to stay here, why do you torture yourself with your perpetual futility on RPF ???

How about a raise, boss?

[spudea]

Making threats against Korea will convince them that they really do need nuclear weapons- it won't convince them to give them up. If the goal is to disarm North Korea, he is reducing his option to actually using military force on them (not that other options actually exist other than accepting the fact that they have nuclear arms). It makes war even more likely.

Then let Kim Jong Un come to the UN and say he will only act in self defense, make his case to end the conflict on the Korean Peninsula once and for all. Nope, he still fancies himself a god on earth, and the emperor of the entire Peninsula.

[nikcers]

Then let Kim Jong Un come to the UN and say he will only act in self defense, make his case to end the conflict on the Korean Peninsula once and for all. Nope, he still fancies himself a god on earth, and the emperor of the entire Peninsula.
Meet the new salesman same as the old salesman, this is just a war on nerves to sell guns https://youtu.be/CxExNGXrtnI?t=219

[euphemia]

Some of you are so into the Trump hating you have no idea what is going on here. Trump is throwing out the most outrageous thing he can think of because he is willing to deal down. It is his consistent game plan, and I can't believe some people are not catching on.

[nikcers]

Some of you are so into the Trump hating you have no idea what is going on here. Trump is throwing out the most outrageous thing he can think of because he is willing to deal down. It is his consistent game plan, and I can't believe some people are not catching on.

I hated this policy when it was Clintons. It was leaked in her emails.

[timosman]

I hated this policy when it was Clintons. It was leaked in her emails.

A Great Nuclear Deal Made With North Korea In 1994 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?514717-A-Great-Nuclear-Deal-Made-With-North-Korea-In-1994)

[Swordsmyth]

A Great Nuclear Deal Made With North Korea In 1994 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?514717-A-Great-Nuclear-Deal-Made-With-North-Korea-In-1994)

There's really nothing like entrapment is there?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

How about a raise, boss?


Did you talk with Soros yet?

[nikcers]

A Great Nuclear Deal Made With North Korea In 1994 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?514717-A-Great-Nuclear-Deal-Made-With-North-Korea-In-1994)
I can't even

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ThoughtfulShamefulArgentineruddyduck-size_restricted.gif

[GunnyFreedom]

Every time someone intimates that taking down NK would be some kind of cakewalk, acting like they have some kind of knowledge about the situation, I am unsure whether to laugh or cry...

[juleswin]

Zip, have you not been watching North Korea shoot bombs toward Japan? Pal, that's about as clear a threat as can be made anywhere. Granted North Korea is pretty small potatoes, but not when you look at the leviathan that is China just to the north. I cannot imagine that the people who surround and protect him see that impotent little worm as any kind of world power. There is something else propping him up. The sabre rattling has to stop. Kim Jong Un is a pernicious little turd, and he needs to cut it out.

Well, its not like Japan hasn't be giving the US military to the authority to use its airfield to fly deadly bombers over its territory and lets not forget all the war games practices on how to take down their military conducted right outside its borders.

Also, "shooting missiles over Japan" could mean missiles flying over the ocean near Japan, essentially there is virtually no way NK can test a missiles into the ocean without it going over someone's territory.

[The Rebel Poet]

Every time someone intimates that taking down NK would be some kind of cakewalk, acting like they have some kind of knowledge about the situation, I am unsure whether to laugh or cry...

Cry. Cry for yourself and your children; cry for the thousands of American pawns that would be injured or killed; cry for the thousands of innocent South Korean civilians (many of whom are children) who would die; cry for the thousands of innocent North Korean civilians (many of whom are not Kim Jong-Un) who would die; cry because most of the American electorate is ok with all this death and destruction; and cry because it is nearly inevitable when even those who claim to understand Ron Paul are begging for the red horse, and will cheer on the rainbow of equine malice right along with their neocon twins, all the while shouting "war is peace!" Cry.

[TheCount]

Zip, have you not been watching North Korea shoot bombs toward Japan?
Which direction should they launch their missiles? Toward the east, in the direction of empty ocean and the United States?

[nikcers]

Which direction should they launch their missiles? Toward the east, in the direction of empty ocean and the United States?
uh I don't think they should fire their mickey mouse rockets over anyone's populations? Would you light fireworks made in north korea over your property?

[TheCount]

uh I don't think they should fire their mickey mouse rockets over anyone's populations? Would you light fireworks made in north korea over your property?
That's essentially telling them and all other developing countries that they can never have a space program.

[chudrockz]

All I can say is thank the Lord we didn't elect Hillary. That sociopathic bitch would have us on the verge of war by now.

[nikcers]

That's essentially telling them and all other developing countries that they can never have a space program.
There's a difference between developing ICBM/NUKES and space rockets. Just because we did both at the same time doesn't mean that its necessary. We wouldn't care if they were threatening to put a NK flag on the moon, they are threatening to attack us and our allies with nukes.

[RJB]

All I can say is thank the Lord we didn't elect Hillary. That sociopathic bitch would have us on the verge of war by now.Agreed.

Even with her losing, her followers think we are already at war with Russia.

[nikcers]

Agreed.

Even with her losing, her followers think we are already at war with Russia.
Sanctions aren't an act of war?

[RJB]

Sanctions aren't an act of war?

You could say that. I see sanctions more as stupidity ( or diabolical craftiness) that leads to war. IMO war is when you are either shooting or hiding in a bunker and it occupies the attention of the nation more than which Kardashian is getting his wiener snipped off.

[nikcers]

You could say that. I see sanctions more as stupidity ( or diabolical craftiness) that leads to war. IMO war is when you are either shooting or hiding in a bunker and it occupies the attention of the nation more than which Kardashian is getting his wiener snipped off.
I didn't say that Ron Paul did.

[RJB]

I didn't say that Ron Paul did.
That's fine. What I posted is what I said.

[Zippyjuan]

Which direction should they launch their missiles? Toward the east, in the direction of empty ocean and the United States?

They are kind of surrounded by Japan- they don't have a lot of directions they can fire a long range missile test without it being towards some country. South or West? That goes towards Taiwan or China. North? That is also China and a bit of Russia. East or south? Japan or Guam or Phillippines- US allies.

https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.3181260!/image/image.png_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/image.png

[PierzStyx]

"Hate posts." LOL. Oh come on, Ender. You're one notch away from the snowflake term, "hate speech."

Hmm. Snowflakes tend to rant and rave and cry like little babies when anyone says something they not only disagree with but can't disprove, all as an argument tactic to distract from how wrong they are.

*Checks NCL's posts here*

Yep. Snowflake right there.

NCL right now base don his comments here:

https://media.tenor.com/images/147b4efa44e99ee8be152051c514d744/tenor.gif

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Hmm. Snowflakes tend to rant and rave and cry like little babies when anyone says something they not only disagree with but can't disprove, all as an argument tactic to distract from how wrong they are.

*Checks NCL's posts here*

Yep. Snowflake right there.

NCL right now base don his comments here:

https://media.tenor.com/images/147b4efa44e99ee8be152051c514d744/tenor.gif


And that's exactly what you just did. LOL

[TheCount]

There's a difference between developing ICBM/NUKES and space rockets.

I disagree, with the possible exception of liquid fuel being better for space programs and solid fuel being better for ICBMs. The technology is functionally the same.

[Zippyjuan]

I disagree, with the possible exception of liquid fuel being better for space programs and solid fuel being better for ICBMs. The technology is functionally the same.

The early rockets in our space program were modified ICBMs. They can be used for either as long as they can fly as far as you want them to go.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_(rocket_family)


Atlas is a family of American missiles and space launch vehicles. The original Atlas missile was designed in the late 1950s and produced by the Convair Division of General Dynamics,[2] to be used as an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM).

The space shuttle used both solid and liquid fuel for a single launch.

[nikcers]

I disagree, with the possible exception of liquid fuel being better for space programs and solid fuel being better for ICBMs. The technology is functionally the same.
Would you be an astronaut in a NK rocket?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

The technology is functionally the same.


LOL

[Swordsmyth]

Would you be an astronaut in a NK rocket?

No, you would be a human sacrifice.

[PierzStyx]

And that's exactly what you I just did. LOL

There. FTFY.

Look, I even triggered the Precious Little Snowflake that he had to cry into my rep page.


https://i.imgur.com/FVW6epR.png


Look at him whine. The delicious irony is that he accuses me of acting like its high school while he does nothing but mindlessly rant about empty-headed conspiracy theories. At least I'm not acting like its preschool.

[Zippyjuan]

There. FTFY.

Look, I even triggered the Precious Little Snowflake that he had to cry into my rep page.


https://i.imgur.com/FVW6epR.png


Look at him whine. The delicious irony is that he accuses me of acting like its high school while he does nothing but mindlessly rant about empty-headed conspiracy theories. At least I'm not acting like its preschool.

He just wants a little attention. Doesn't get enough at home.

[H. E. Panqui]

Well, its not like Japan hasn't be giving the US military to use its airfield to fly deadly bombers over its territory and letf not forget all the war games practices on how to take down their military.

Also, shoot missiles over Japan could mean missiles flying over the ocean near Japan, essentially there is virtually no way NK can test a missiles into the ocean without it going over someone's territory.

...uncle $hame is now big buddie$ with the japanese...sadly and shamefully, american republicrats are ignorant about a whole world of things...one being that the japanese have a history of invading and slaughtering hundreds of thousands of koreans...similarly, uncle $hame has invaded and slaughtered hundreds of thousands of north koreans...

...any north korean not a goddamned fool has good reason to hate the japanese and the stinking republicrats....

[Ender]

Ron Paul: On. The. Nose.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?515143-Trump%92s-UN-Speech-A-Neocon-Dream&p=6527537#post6527537

[TheCount]

Would you be an astronaut in a NK rocket?Good point. They might do something stupid like not realize that it was impossible to open up the door of the pressurized capsule that they'd built, meaning that in the event of an emergency such as a fire, everyone inside would die.

Oh, right, that already happened in the Apollo program. And that was after two decades of American experience with ballistic missile programs and one decade of NASA programs, hundreds of launches between the two. Apples to apples would be looking at the first programs, which were Atlas, Thor, and Titan.


Only one of the first 7 tests of the Thor IRBM was successful. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PGM-17_Thor) Overall 22 failures out of 70 launches. (http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/logsum.html)

4 of the first 8 Atlas launches were successful. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SM-65_Atlas#Launch_history)

The Titan I program had 29 failures out of 67 launches for a 57% success rate. (http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/logsum.html)


NASA didn't do so great itself at first, and they had the benefit of beginning with previous military experience on the same platforms:
https://history.nasa.gov/SP-4211/p170.jpg

[TheCount]

There. FTFY.

Look, I even triggered the Precious Little Snowflake that he had to cry into my rep page.


https://i.imgur.com/FVW6epR.png


Look at him whine. The delicious irony is that he accuses me of acting like its high school while he does nothing but mindlessly rant about empty-headed conspiracy theories. At least I'm not acting like its preschool.

Wow, you triggered him so hard he even forgot not to accuse people of being trolls or paid trolls. That's an integral part of his conspiracy theory; he must have been really upset.

[timosman]

He just wants a little attention. Doesn't get enough at home.

Sassy. :cool:

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Look at him whine.
.


Look at me whine?! You're the one crying about a neg rep. LOL

And still pouting for your little friend getting his treatment? Oh, boo hoo!






He just wants a little attention. Doesn't get enough at home.

Says the guy who spends every weekend and every day on this forum, including Christmas day. LOL.






Wow, you triggered him so hard he even forgot not to accuse people of being trolls or paid trolls.

Guess you missed that. You're slipping, chief. Soros say, "No raise for you!"



..his conspiracy theory

Not a conspiracy when you're actually doing it, but you keep trying to deflect attention away from yourself, bub. Nobody I've seen believes you, but maybe one day you'll hit the jackpot.

[timosman]

For the record, prior art:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f4VNL9LO0o

[nikcers]

If you really want to put yourself into the neocon perspective to understand their motive watch here:
Anchor: Can Iran shut the tap when it wants to and bring its military faliures and advisors home (https://youtu.be/wIA0u1b_Vew?t=28m9s)?

The guy who responds to the question even explains the POV of the people who are perpetuating the US foreign policy.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIA0u1b_Vew

[enhanced_deficit]

North Korea fires its highest ICBM yet By Katie Bo Williams - 11/28/17 07:52 PM EST

“We will take care of it,” Trump told reporters at the White House.
South Korea fired pinpoint missiles into the water in response to the launch, “to make certain North Korea understands that they could be taken under fire by our ally,” Mattis said.

Trump said the launch would not alter the administration’s strategy to rein in the rogue nation, and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, while condemning the launch, said diplomatic options “remain viable and open, for now.”


http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/362244-north-korea-fires-its-highest-icbm-yet



Has line changes from "totally destroy NK" too "we'll handle it", "diplomatic options are open"?

[AZJoe]

Escalation and Rising Tensions on Eve of US' Largest Korean Wargame Practice Yet. (https://sg.news.yahoo.com/korea-tensions-rise-ahead-us-south-korea-joint-201843865.html)

Tensions were on the rise Sunday ahead of the largest ever US-South Korea air exercise, … The five-day Vigilant Ace drill -- involving some 230 aircraft including F-22 Raptor stealth jet fighters -- begins Monday …

The North's ruling party Rodong newspaper slammed the upcoming drill. "It is an open, all-out provocation against the DPRK, which may lead to a nuclear war any moment," …

Meanwhile … HR McMaster in warning that time is running out on diplomatic efforts … Senator Lindsey Graham, a foreign policy hawk, told CBS' "Face the Nation" the United States moves closer to "preemptive war" with every new North Korean missile or nuclear test. … Graham's remarks echoed those of McMaster, who told a security forum in Washington on Saturday that the potential for war with North Korea "is increasing every day." …

The United States has demanded [more escalation through] tougher international sanctions in response to the latest missile tests, including cuts in oil shipments to the isolated state. …

"Denial means preemptive war as a last resort. That preemption is becoming more likely …

[AZJoe]

Lindsey Graham says 30% chance Trump attacks North Korea (https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/12/lindsey-graham-war-north-korea-trump/548381/). Graham then giddily proclaims "If nothing changes, Trump’s gonna have to use the military option"

More quotes from the inner workings of the mind of a demented war demon:


“I would say there’s a three in 10 chance we use the military option,” ... If the North Koreans conduct an additional test of a nuclear bomb ... "I would say 70 percent.”

“There is no surgical strike option. … you gotta assume the worst, not the best. So if you ever use the military option, it’s not to just neutralize their nuclear facilities—you gotta be willing to take the regime completely down.” …

“if they test another [nuclear] weapon, then all bets are off.” …

“I’m not taking anything off the table to avoid a war.” …

“If nothing changes, Trump’s gonna have to use the military option” …

“I am literally willing to put hundreds of thousands of people at risk, knowing that millions and millions of people will be at risk if we don’t.” …

“Fighting the North Korea threat over there protects the homeland,” he said. “That’s what [U.S. soldiers are] paid to do. That’s what they want to do. They sign up for these kind of risks.” …

But “don’t ever lose sight of how this war ends,” Graham said. “We win it, not North Korea.”

It’s certainly possible that this is all calculated bluster … When I asked Graham who he was directing his warnings about time running out to, he responded, “North Korea and Donald Trump.”

He said he was “100 percent convinced that China is a rational actor … they see North Korea as a thorn in our side …. That changes, the day that they believe Donald Trump will blow up the whole place.” …

[Swordsmyth]

The U.N. Security Council unanimously voted in favor of a U.S.-drafted resolution to increase sanctions (https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/north-korea-new-watered-down-sanctions-leave-lifelines-place) on North Korea by cutting almost 90 percent of refined oil exports to Pyongyang, BBC reported Dec. 22.

More at: https://worldview.stratfor.com/situation-report/un-security-council-imposes-new-sanctions-north-korea

[The Rebel Poet]

The U.N. Security Council unanimously voted in favor of a U.S.-drafted resolution to increase sanctions (https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/north-korea-new-watered-down-sanctions-leave-lifelines-place) on North Korea by cutting almost 90 percent of refined oil exports to Pyongyang, BBC reported Dec. 22.

More at: https://worldview.stratfor.com/situation-report/un-security-council-imposes-new-sanctions-north-korea
War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength; Trump is Anti-establishment.

[Raginfridus]

War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength; Trump is Anti-establishment.
Calm yourself, Glorious Leader is a 5d chess master.

[Jan2017]

For the record, prior art:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GAKOLOnfV4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GAKOLOnfV4

Rocket Man Kim Jung-un goes down 15-0 in UN Security Council on Friday . . .
expecting the same global condemnation - and fate - as Stalin got . . . eventually.


Calm yourself, Glorious Leader is a 5d chess master.

Sorry, but she didn't get elected and if she had been, her cabal would never have been caught.

https://s19.postimg.org/d1qd01w0j/hillary.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/e40jiletr/)

[enhanced_deficit]

Trump (Or is it Kushner/Ivanka ) foreign policy seems to have amazing range.

Trump Team Message # 1: "No more missile tests provocation or we'll totally destroy North Korea"

North Korea launches the biggest misssile tests soon afterwards that extends reach to US.

Trump Team Message #2: "Our doors for talks without any pre conditions are open"

Trump Team Message #3:" We're preparing to attack NKorea to just give them a bloody nose".


Seems like smart minds at work.

[Raginfridus]

Sorry, but she didn't get elected and if she had been, her cabal would never have been caught.
You got me, they're caught.

[The Rebel Poet]

You got me, they're caught.
I feel so much more at ease ever since she went to prison.