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CaptUSA
08-31-2017, 10:42 AM
Thank you, Dr. Paul! So glad some sense can still be revealed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=44&v=fUDNFZQXU9A

Zippyjuan
08-31-2017, 12:15 PM
http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/ron-paul/in-praise-of-price-gouging


Had gas stations been allowed to raise their prices to reflect the increased demand for gasoline, only those most in need of gasoline would have purchased gas, while everyone would have economized on their existing supply.

Actually not necessarily those with the biggest need, but those with the deepest pockets would be able to buy gasoline in this example. Buyers most not only be willing and wanting to buy gasoline, but also be able to afford the higher price of it.

Should that also apply to needs like water- where only those who can afford inflated prices are allowed access to it?

acptulsa
08-31-2017, 12:30 PM
Should that also apply to needs like water- where only those who can afford inflated prices are allowed access to it?

Are you talking about Houston? Who in Houston is lacking access to water? I mean, really.

Would the law of supply and demand lead to people distilling water? After all, that might not be cost effective at normal prices. A person who has the equipment to do it on a small scale might lose money they can't afford to part with if they could only sell it for the normal prices distilled water gets when trucks are able to deliver it. But if no one is criminalizing the free market, they would be highly motivated to help meet the crying need.

So, they supply these people with 'deep pockets' you refer to, and when charitable agencies get some in by truck/boat/however they can, the lines are shorter because the 'deep pocket brigade' isn't dying of thirst, and everyone gets drinking water. Why do you find this natural market dynamic so horrifying?

Yeah, costs are liable to go up when the usual methods of transportation won't work. But that's good for the economy, right? More money velocity that your Fed masters approve of, and all that. If a broken window is good, then why would this be bad?

Dr.3D
08-31-2017, 12:33 PM
http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/ron-paul/in-praise-of-price-gouging



Actually not necessarily those with the biggest need, but those with the deepest pockets would be able to buy gasoline in this example. Buyers most not only be willing and wanting to buy gasoline, but also be able to afford the higher price of it.

Should that also apply to needs like water- where only those who can afford inflated prices are allowed access to it?

So if the price stays the same, there will be a shortage of the item and people still won't have access to it when the supply runs out.

If the price increases, causing incentive for sellers to increase the supply, more people would have access to it, but at smaller amounts for those who can't afford it.

CaptUSA
08-31-2017, 12:48 PM
http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/ron-paul/in-praise-of-price-gouging



Actually not necessarily those with the biggest need, but those with the deepest pockets would be able to buy gasoline in this example. Buyers most not only be willing and wanting to buy gasoline, but also be able to afford the higher price of it.

Awesome! This thread pulled in Zippy!!!! :D Get ready for the smackdown!!!


Should that also apply to needs like water- where only those who can afford inflated prices are allowed access to it?

Hell yes, that should apply to water as well!!!! We have the most perfect system to bring resources to where they are needed most. That system is called the free market. The idea that you should turn off this system precisely when it is needed most is horrendous! These politicians should be charged with crimes against humanity!! (As well as any officer merely doing his "duty" by enforcing such destructive laws.)

To your point, let's say the price went up to $20 for a 20 ounce bottle of water. Yeah, the people with the deepest pockets will get those bottles first. But guess what happens? That sends a signal to EVERY OTHER person who has water to bring it to that location! It also prevents those that stocked up with water ahead of time from hoarding it. It won't take long until there is enough water in the area for the price to go back down naturally.

Price controls create shortages. You know this.

Milton Friedman once said that "Price gougers should receive a medal." He couldn't be more right. They get the resources where they need to go faster than otherwise possible and they get shamed in the process.

Charity is also a function of a free market. If charities recognize the inflated prices, they can also send in resources to quickly lower the price. (In fact, if charities were able to support the need, price "gouging" [as morons call it] wouldn't even be able to happen.)

If we had a properly functioning media in this country, they'd be advertising the current prices in different locations instead of shaming those filling the need. "Hi Jim, here in podunk township, the price of water has gone up to $15 a liter and price of gas is $20/gallon! Folks, here's your chance to bring your supplies here quickly!"

The free market is the best system to get resources where they need to go. It should be no surprise since it is the only economic system designed by Nature.

acptulsa
08-31-2017, 12:58 PM
That sends a signal to EVERY OTHER person who has water to bring it to that location! It also prevents those that stocked up with water ahead of time from hoarding it.

What, you don't think someone in Conroe with two cases of bottled water and a canoe would go to the trouble to paddle a hundred miles and risk sunburn and being locked up by FEMA for trying to help if they can only get what they paid for the stuff? How selfish!

navy-vet
08-31-2017, 01:18 PM
So if the price stays the same, there will be a shortage of the item and people still won't have access to it when the supply runs out.

If the price increases, causing incentive for sellers to increase the supply, more people would have access to it, but at smaller amounts for those who can't afford it.
Well, that makes perfect sense to me! For a moment there I was undecided about what the right position in this really was. Thank's doc.

CaptUSA
08-31-2017, 01:21 PM
What, you don't think someone in Conroe with two cases of bottled water and a canoe would go to the trouble to paddle a hundred miles and risk sunburn and being locked up by FEMA for trying to help if they can only get what they paid for the stuff? How selfish!

You know, I love it when Zippyjuan is chased out of an economic thread, but I'm also left disappointed. Come on, Zip, don't you want to defend those destructive and abominable economic policies that cause real people to suffer and die?!

dannno
08-31-2017, 01:30 PM
You know, I love it when @Zippyjuan (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=17293) is chased out of an economic thread, but I'm also left disappointed. Come on, Zip, don't you want to defend those destructive and abominable economic policies that cause real people to suffer and die?!

He's too busy penning his next anti-Trump thread.

CaptUSA
08-31-2017, 01:39 PM
He's too busy penning his next anti-Trump thread.

:rolleyes: Oh geez, always Trump with you... Tell me, Dannno, where is Trump on price controls? Is he calling on the governors to temporarily lift their bans on "gouging"? Because I haven't seen that yet. We're in the midst of a disaster. Now would be the time to act. (Before the storm would have been even better,)

phill4paul
08-31-2017, 01:46 PM
Were it not for Zippy this thread might have only gotten one or two "Amens." Instead it received much needed rebuttal. Thank you and +rep to Zippy.

merkelstan
09-01-2017, 11:34 AM
I guess the counterargument amounts to: "If stuff becomes scarce and thus expensive, poor people won't be able to afford expensive stuff."

They fail to address the cause of the problem - that stuff has gotten scarce. I guess... they can't understand this?

Zippyjuan
09-01-2017, 03:17 PM
Are you talking about Houston? Who in Houston is lacking access to water? I mean, really.

Would the law of supply and demand lead to people distilling water? After all, that might not be cost effective at normal prices. A person who has the equipment to do it on a small scale might lose money they can't afford to part with if they could only sell it for the normal prices distilled water gets when trucks are able to deliver it. But if no one is criminalizing the free market, they would be highly motivated to help meet the crying need.

So, they supply these people with 'deep pockets' you refer to, and when charitable agencies get some in by truck/boat/however they can, the lines are shorter because the 'deep pocket brigade' isn't dying of thirst, and everyone gets drinking water. Why do you find this natural market dynamic so horrifying?

Yeah, costs are liable to go up when the usual methods of transportation won't work. But that's good for the economy, right? More money velocity that your Fed masters approve of, and all that. If a broken window is good, then why would this be bad?

Beaumont Texas lost water. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/31/118000-people-and-no-drinking-water-flooded-beaumont-cannot-determine-when-it-will-restore-water-supply.html


118,000 people and no drinking water: Flooded Beaumont cannot determine when it will restore water supply

Early Thursday morning, officials of Beaumont, Texas, announced the city lost both the primary and secondary sources for its water supply system.

"Due to rising waters of the Neches River caused by Tropical Storm Harvey, the City of Beaumont has lost service from the main pump station," Beaumont fire rescue captain Brad Penisson said in a statement.

Located near the Louisiana border on the Gulf Coast, the city of nearly 120,000 residents will be without water until after floodwaters recede and officials can analyze the extent of the damage.

"There is no way to determine how long this will take at this time," Penisson said.

On Monday, Mayor Becky Ames issued a voluntary evacuation for residents close to Pine Island Bayou to the north of the city, but it is unknown how many residents remained in Beaumont during the storm.

Baptist Beaumont Hospital issued a statement after the city's water system failure, saying it will transfer patients "to other acute care facilities," according to KBMT reporter Ezzy Castro.

acptulsa
09-01-2017, 03:21 PM
Beaumont Texas lost water. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/31/118000-people-and-no-drinking-water-flooded-beaumont-cannot-determine-when-it-will-restore-water-supply.html

Did my point really go right over your head, or are you just pretending it did?

osan
09-01-2017, 07:58 PM
Anti-price gouging statutes in TX... why does this not surprise me?

One again Dr. Paul provides a voice of well-informed reason, which is why he is so broadly ignored, despised, mocked, and even hated by the statist drones who claim to want freedom, but who apparently have no idea what "freedom" actually means.

Feeding the Abscess
09-02-2017, 07:40 PM
For those wanting to reach non-libertarian or even left-wingers, Matt Yglesias penned an article during the Sandy relief efforts that take the correct position:

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/10/sandy_price_gouging_anti_gouging_laws_make_natural _disasters_worse.html