Trump expected to increase Police Militarization by lifting ban on military gear

[William Tell]

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/bf340e6c38035b439d10a3b014d69cad64e61e28/c=217-0-3257-2286&r=x408&c=540x405/local/-/media/2017/08/27/USATODAY/USATODAY/636394412294249363-POLICE-MILITARIZATION.JPG

WASHINGTON — The Trump administration is preparing to lift a controversial ban on the transfer of some surplus military equipment to police departments whose battlefield-style response to rioting in a St. Louis suburb three years ago prompted a halt to the program.

The new plan, outlined in documents obtained by USA TODAY, would roll back an Obama administration executive order that blocked armored vehicles, large-caliber weapons, ammunition and other heavy equipment from being re-purposed from foreign battlefields to America's streets.

On Monday, Attorney General Jeff Sessions is scheduled to address the annual meeting of the Fraternal Order of Police, the nation's largest police union, and he may outline the program changes there.

Administration officials did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

The administration's action would restore "the full scope of a longstanding program for recycling surplus, lifesaving gear from the Department of Defense, along with restoring the full scope of grants used to purchase this type of equipment from other sources,'' according to a administration summary of the new program recently circulated to some law enforcement groups.

"Assets that would otherwise be scrapped can be re-purposed to help state, local and tribal law enforcement better protect public safety and reduce crime."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/08/27/trump-expected-lift-ban-military-gear-local-police-forces/606065001/

[CaptUSA]

#MAGA baby!

[timosman]

What do the cops pay with?

[TheCount]

President Trump is planning on reversing a ban on allowing local police forces to use surplus military equipment, according to a new report.

The Trump administration will now allow local police forces to take and use armored vehicles, high-caliber weapons and other kinds of heavy equipment that were once used in the military, USA Today reported (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/08/27/trump-expected-lift-ban-military-gear-local-police-forces/606065001/) Sunday.


The Obama administration initially banned the practice after police in Ferguson, Mo. were heavily criticized for using the equipment against protestors in the wake of the shooting of Michael Brown three years ago.

Attorney General Jeff Sessions is set to address the Fraternal Order of Police Monday, where it’s believed he might unveil the new policy.


"Assets that would otherwise be scrapped can be re-purposed to help state, local and tribal law enforcement better protect public safety and reduce crime,” administration officials wrote in a document obtained by USA Today.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/348201-trump-to-reverse-ban-on-local-police-using-military-equipment-report

[Swordsmyth]

Thank you for fixing the quote in your signature.

[TheCount]

Thank you for fixing the quote in your signature.I changed it before I replied to your extra-large extra-bold font post.

[Anti Federalist]

Can't repeal Obamacare.

Can't repeal NAFTA.

Can't get tax cuts.

Can't repeal McClure/Volkmer.

But sure as shit can copsuck.

[Raginfridus]

He's following the agenda like a loyal drone.

[TheCount]

#MAGA baby!

MAG*A


* For certain definitions of great. May not contain actual greatness. Some restrictions apply.

[timosman]

Is there a money flowchart associated with these transactions?:confused:

[Dr.3D]

#MAGA baby!
Guess folks forgot to ask, great again for whom?

[Raginfridus]

Is there a money flowchart associated with these transactions?:confused:Not likely. Surplus donate to PD. Your PD will either hire new mechanics retired from military for the MRAPs, work something with local Nat'l Guard, or the city/county/university will contract diesel technicians familiar with them. My guess is the second, because it facilitates the mingling of PD with the military. In a few years, we'll see PD formally integrated with the military. They already train together, and many are vets.

[timosman]

Not likely. Surplus donate to PD. Your PD will either hire new mechanics retired from military for the MRAPs, work something with local Nat'l Guard, or the city/county/university will contract diesel technicians familiar with them. My guess is the second, because it facilitates the mingling of PD with the military. In a few years, we'll see PD formally integrated with the military. They already train together, and many are vets.

One World Police.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

These two sources say that:

1. Military equipment transfers increased under Obama after his "ban."
2. Obama's "ban" only affected the bayonet.





If You Thought Obama Was Giving Less Military Gear to Local Police Departments, You Were Wrong
Despite President Obama's much-touted 2015 executive order, an In These Times investigation reveals evidence that police departments are still receiving as much military hardware from the Pentagon as ever.
September 16, 2016

Excerpts:


But an In These Times investigation provides evidence that, in practice, the president’s much-ballyhooed reforms to the 1033 program have done little to stem the flow of battlefield gear to cops.

In fact, the total value of equipment distributed through the program actually increased in the year following the ban, according to figures provided to In These Times by Michelle McCaskill, media relations chief for the DOD's Defense Logistics Agency (DLA), which oversees the shipments.



http://inthesetimes.com/features/obama_police_miltary_equipment_ban.html



***



[B]Obama's military gear ban affects only the bayonet
by Tara Copp | May 19, 2015

Excerpts:

President Obama's new restrictions on transferring Defense Department equipment to local police, in reality, adds only one new piece of gear to the "banned" list: the bayonet.

Every other item on the "prohibited equipment list" released Monday was already a no-go for the Defense Department, a senior defense official told the Washington Examiner.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/obamas-military-gear-ban-affects-only-the-bayonet/article/2564691

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Peter Kraska, a professor at Eastern Kentucky University’s School of Social Justice Studies and one of the leading researchers of police militarization, told the Guardian that the new [ban] rules [under Obama] were nothing more than a “publicity stunt.”

http://inthesetimes.com/features/obama_police_miltary_equipment_ban.html

..

[Raginfridus]

We received an MRAP at Purdue, so Obama's indeed full of shit. I linked to the details in another topic.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Donald Trump is a dirtbag copsucker, but I don't think this is all it appears. For example, Obama banned armored vehicles on tracks, but most of the transferred armored vehicles to kops ran on wheels. It would be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison of the actual DoD and police lists.

Obama pulled a publicity stunt and it looks like Donny boy is doing the same. Except in reverse.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Your PD will either hire new mechanics retired from military for the MRAPs, work something with local Nat'l Guard, or the city/county/university will contract diesel technicians familiar with them.


Other expenses for this equipment:


--costly storage
--costly fuel
--training
--premium insurance
--picking up the vehicles (they're not delivered)

[Pauls' Revere]

Together with "Stingray" making the world a safer place.<sarc>

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol-sac-cell-phone-surveillance-transparency-law-20170827-htmlstory.html

Several years ago, little was known about the StingRay, a powerful surveillance device that imitates the function of a cell tower and captures the signals of nearby phones, allowing law enforcement officers to sweep through hundreds of messages, conversations and call logs.

The secrecy around the technology, which can ensnare the personal data of criminals and bystanders alike, spurred lawsuits and demands for public records to uncover who was using it and the extent of its capabilities. In California, a 2015 law requires law enforcement agencies to seek permission at public meetings to buy the devices, and post rules for their use online.

But a Los Angeles Times review of records from 20 of the state’s largest police and sheriff’s departments, plus the Alameda County district attorney’s office, found some agencies have been slow to follow or have ignored the law. Several that partner with federal agencies to work on cases are not subject to the law’s reporting requirements. The result is that little information on StingRay use is available to the public, making it hard to determine how wide a net the surveillance tools cast and what kind of data they gather.

[Origanalist]

Guess folks forgot to ask, great again for whom?

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Dr.3D again.

It damn sure aint for me.

[Origanalist]

One World Police.

Pretty much.

[acptulsa]

Not likely. Surplus donate to PD. Your PD will either hire new mechanics retired from military for the MRAPs, work something with local Nat'l Guard, or the city/county/university will contract diesel technicians familiar with them. My guess is the second, because it facilitates the mingling of PD with the military. In a few years, we'll see PD formally integrated with the military. They already train together, and many are vets.

Provided, of course, your city or county jumps through all the hoops, runs the requisite number of Saturday Night Checkpoints, raises the drinking age and lowers the BAC percentage, and bows to their federal masters in all its whims. Otherwise, they tell the local press, 'Your city would have gotten two Army reject vehicles valued at $83 million, and seven hours of National Guard diesel mechanic attention valued at $27 million, but they refused to screw you as directed so your city lost out on $110 million worth of free stuff!'

[timosman]

Provided, of course, your city or county jumps through all the hoops, runs the requisite number of Saturday Night Checkpoints, raises the drinking age and lowers the BAC percentage, and bows to their federal masters in all its whims. Otherwise, they tell the local press, 'Your city would have gotten two Army reject vehicles valued at $83 million, and seven hours of National Guard diesel mechanic attention valued at $27 million, but they refused to screw you as directed so your city lost out on $110 million worth of free stuff!'

What's in it for the city anyway for taking care of all of this junk?

[acptulsa]

What's in it for the city anyway?

Whatever they get for busting all those slightly tipsy "drunks", plus local press headlines saying, 'City secures Federal Military Surplus Valued at $110,000,000'.

And there's not even a footnote behind 'Valued' indicating that only the military has the chutzpah to value two crappy MRAPs and seven hours time from a weekend warrior at anything over 50K.

[Origanalist]

Donald Trump is a dirtbag copsucker, but I don't think this is all it appears. For example, Obama banned armored vehicles on tracks, but most of the transferred armored vehicles to kops ran on wheels. It would be interesting to see a side-by-side comparison of the actual DoD and police lists.

Obama pulled a publicity stunt and it looks like Donny boy is doing the same. Except in reverse.

Yes it would be interesting, but that doesn't change the fact the the Donald is a world class copsucker.

[Origanalist]

One World Police.

902017902332612608

[William Tell]

Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced the change, first reported by USA Today, in a speech to the Fraternal Order of Police in Nashville on Monday.

The executive order "will ensure that you can get the lifesaving gear that you need to do your job and send a strong message that we will not allow criminal activity, violence, and lawlessness to become the new normal," he said.

The Obama limitations hurt law enforcement, Sessions added.

"One sheriff told me earlier this year about how, due to the prior administration's restrictions, the federal government made his department return an armored vehicle that can change the dynamics of an active shooter situation," he said.

Jim Pasco, the police organization's executive director, said the change "is President Trump making good on a campaign promise." Pasco said he and other police officials discussed the issue with the president and attorney general two times during meetings at the White House.

Related: Obama: U.S. Cracking Down on ‘Militarization’ of Local Police

The NAACP Legal Defense fund called the move "exceptionally dangerous and irresponsible."

Janai Nelson, the group’s associate director counsel, said the policy change "puts more firepower in the hands of police departments that remain largely untrained on matters of racial bias and endangers the public. Inviting the use of military weaponry against our domestic population is nothing short of recasting the public as an enemy."

Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., laid out his opposition to Trump's move in series of tweets.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-reverses-obama-policy-surplus-military-gear-police-n796581

https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/902184919979438081

https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/902185039999401984

https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/902185345655201792

https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/902185628590379008

https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/902185868743643136

[Madison320]

Does the federal government have the constitutional power to limit what type of weapons states can use?

[timosman]

Does the federal government have the constitutional power to limit what type of weapons states can use?

This is a very complicated question. I don't think there is enough space here to fully explain.:cool:

[hard@work]

Keep this in mind when you see "antifa" cheer leading. These people have no idea what they are asking for.

[Ender]

Does the federal government have the constitutional power to limit what type of weapons states can use?

Does the federal or state governments have the constitutional power to limit what type of weapons individuals can use?

[timosman]

Keep this in mind when you see "antifa" cheer leading. These people have no idea what they are asking for.

They do.

[Swordsmyth]

Does the federal government have the constitutional power to limit what type of weapons states can use?


This is a very complicated question. I don't think there is enough space here to fully explain.:cool:


Does the federal or state governments have the constitutional power to limit what type of weapons individuals can use?

We need to fix the bad laws about what citizens can have before we should even consider agreeing to let the police go full Storm Trooper.

What the states and locals can do is not the same as what they should do, if they are going to have military forces they should be different than the Kops.

[Madison320]

Does the federal or state governments have the constitutional power to limit what type of weapons individuals can use?

So in this case Trump is actually doing the correct thing, although I doubt he was worried about the constitutional aspect.

[Madison320]

We need to fix the bad laws about what citizens can have before we should even consider agreeing to let the police go full Storm Trooper.

What the states and locals can do is not the same as what they should do, if they are going to have military forces they should be different than the Kops.

I totally agree, but I don't like the idea of ignoring the constitution out of convenience. If you don't like the local police using military gear the correct thing is to vote for a new governor or sheriff or whoever is in charge of that decision.

[Swordsmyth]

I totally agree, but I don't like the idea of ignoring the constitution out of convenience. If you don't like the local police using military gear the correct thing is to vote for a new governor or sheriff or whoever is in charge of that decision.

Let's just say there is a list as long as both my arms and both my legs of things that Dump should have fixed first.

Also remember that the Feds are subsidizing the militarization of the police.

[Madison320]

Let's just say there is a list as long as both my arms and both my legs of things that Dump should have fixed first.

Also remember that the Feds are subsidizing the militarization of the police.

Yup.

[timosman]

Let's just say there is a list as long as both my arms and both my legs of things that Dump should have fixed first.

Also remember that the Feds are subsidizing the militarization of the police.

This should be pretty obvious to anyone looking at this as in who is paying for this crap?

[bunklocoempire]

The states are federal whores. Stop the fiat and this crap slows down.

See ya all at the scrap drive for the war effort this Saturday.:rolleyes:

[r3volution 3.0]

Make Armed Gangs Attack! ...Again!


Can't repeal Obamacare.

Can't repeal NAFTA.

Can't get tax cuts.

Can't repeal McClure/Volkmer.

But sure as shit can copsuck.

How about that...

...almost like it was....

...predictable.


Not likely. Surplus donate to PD. Your PD will either hire new mechanics retired from military for the MRAPs, work something with local Nat'l Guard, or the city/county/university will contract diesel technicians familiar with them. My guess is the second, because it facilitates the mingling of PD with the military. In a few years, we'll see PD formally integrated with the military. They already train together, and many are vets.

Yep


Pretty much.

No, not pretty much.

This doesn't get to be blamed on "teh globalists."

This is the work of the anti-"teh globalists" President.

...why, it's almost like the local government in DC is the threat, and all this globalist talk is Goldstein.

[William Tell]

We still have troops serving under the U.N. Seems like a globalist administration.

[r3volution 3.0]

We still have troops serving under the U.N. Seems like a globalist administration.

Is this a serious comment? If so, you actually think the UN controls those troops?

[Origanalist]

Make Armed Gangs Attack! ...Again!



How about that...

...almost like it was....

...predictable.



Yep



No, not pretty much.

This doesn't get to be blamed on "teh globalists."

This is the work of the anti-"teh globalists" President.

...why, it's almost like the local government in DC is the threat, and all this globalist talk is Goldstein.

And like usual you're full of shit. You seriously don't think this country is trying to be the World Police? This is the quote timosman was responding to;


In a few years, we'll see PD formally integrated with the military. They already train together, and many are vets.

Sorry if that triggers your one world government defense reflex.

[timosman]

Rev 3.0 takes himself too seriously while serving as a definition of a "useful idiot".

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

George Bush, Sr. could not have stated the New World Order more clearly:



What is at stake is more than one small country; it is a big idea: a new world order, where diverse nations are drawn together in common cause to achieve the universal aspirations of mankind -- peace and security, freedom, and the rule of law. Such is a world worthy of our struggle and worthy of our children's future.

--George Bush I
Address Before a Joint Session of the Congress on the State of the Union
January 29, 1991


http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=19253

[Valli6]

Rand Paul has posted a response in the New York Post.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?514498-Rand-Paul-No-the-feds-shouldn%92t-give-war-machines-to-the-police&p=6519185#post6519185

[r3volution 3.0]

And like usual you're full of shit. You seriously don't think this country is trying to be the World Police? This is the quote timosman was responding to;

My point was that the problem lies in Washington DC, not in some imaginary globalist cabal.

The solution to the problem is quite simple; stop voting for warmongers.

This stands in stark contrast to the other proffered solution: i.e. vote for "anti-globalist" (whatever that means) warmongers, like Trump.


Sorry if that triggers your one world government defense reflex.

The comment to which you're responding here belonged to Raginfridus, not me.

[Origanalist]

My point was that the problem lies in Washington DC, not in some imaginary globalist cabal.

The solution to the problem is quite simple; stop voting for warmongers.

This stands in stark contrast to the other proffered solution: i.e. vote for "anti-globalist" (whatever that means) warmongers, like Trump.



The comment to which you're responding here belonged to Raginfridus, not me.

DC is a globalist cabal, I thought that was obvious.

[r3volution 3.0]

DC is a globalist cabal, I thought that was obvious.

It's obvious that "anti-globalist" is the latest focus-group approved slogan from the people in DC...

....who get to do the exact same thing under a new name.

If only I had a dollar for every time Hannity et al used the term globalist in the last few months.

...O well

[Raginfridus]

My point was that the problem lies in Washington DC, not in some imaginary globalist cabal.There are 6,413 bills and resolutions currently before the United States Congress, but of those only about 4% will become law. (https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/#bystatus)

How many of us know what Congress did today? Even fewer could say what happened in their state legislatures. The sheer volume of bills that die is staggering, but how many Americans even read the bills that do become law? There's so much legislation down the pike, its no stretch of the imagination to see a cabal. The way I see it, our New World Order behaves like its got no head. In practice, Order's only more false advertising, more projecting. Nobody has any idea what the hell's going on, the globalist cabal just lives to plunder and destroy.

http://i.imgur.com/D0UEGh6.gif

I'm still with you in principle, voting nonintervention's the best step forward.

[pcosmar]

So in this case Trump is actually doing the correct thing, although I doubt he was worried about the constitutional aspect.

You really think that Police need Bayonets to perform their duties?

Because that was the only thing that was Banned by Obama.

[pcosmar]

I was very much expecting this. :(

I said it before.

The Only thing the Police need is a SHORT LEASH.