Trump Monday Prime Time Address: Afghan Strategy

[Pauls' Revere]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-to-unveil-afghanistan-strategy-in-televised-address-monday-1503262674

President Donald Trump will give a nationally televised address Monday night to unveil his strategy for the long-running war in Afghanistan, the White House said, a plan expected to include sending as many as 4,000 more troops to the country.

He’ll deliver the prime-time speech from Fort Myer in Arlington, Va., using the same sort of high-profile stage that his predecessor, Barack Obama, employed in laying out a new approach to the war in 2009. Mr. Obama delivered his speech before a national television audience at the U.S. Military Academy in West Point, N.Y., promising at the time to “bring this war to a successful conclusion.”


I'm sure I'll be disappointed.

[Origanalist]

This is all Ivanka's fault.

[Swordsmyth]

Wake me when the rumors stop and let me know what he says.

[CrissyNY]

is this the official thread tho?

[Wooden Indian]

Let's get 4000 more troops in the meat grinder. 36D chess.

[r3volution 3.0]

Can we get a preview @dannno (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=10908) of the Trumpsplanation for expanding the war?

[bunklocoempire]

Lemme guess, the generals asked for 5,000.

Ready the peace prize, we gots a winner.

[sparebulb]

I'll take my cue to be upset about more foreign intervention when ANTIFA does.

[milgram]

http://i.imgur.com/zAegUvh.jpg

403511109942247424

[Swordsmyth]

http://i.imgur.com/zAegUvh.jpg

403511109942247424


Let's hope that is what he says now.

[goldenequity]

and suddenly...
Gen. Kelly waved his magic wand... and.....
there were...
no
more
leaks.

(usually we'd have the full text and cliff notes by now.)

[Zippyjuan]

and suddenly...
Gen. Kelly waved his magic wand... and.....
there were...
no
more
leaks.

(usually we'd have the full text and cliff notes by now.)

Leaks are that he will probably be asking for another 4,000 more troops (about a 50% increase from the current 8,300) and ask for more help from other countries like Pakistan.

Otherwise, not much real change in policy there is expected. Trying to divert attention from racism issues and ouster of Steve Bannon.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-to-outline-afghan-strategy-in-national-tv-address/2017/08/21/53513db2-8642-11e7-96a7-d178cf3524eb_story.html?utm_term=.46691f7fc6c3


Although he may send a few thousand more troops, there are no signs of a major shift in strategy.

Trump’s announcement caps months of debate that illustrated a basic problem in Trump’s Afghanistan decision: As a candidate he criticized the war and said the U.S. should quickly pull out, but he also campaigned on a vow to start winning wars. Exiting now, with the Taliban resurgent, would be impossible to sell as victory.

“I think there’s a relative certainty that the Afghan government would eventually fall,” says Mark Jacobson, an Army veteran and NATO’s former deputy representative in Kabul.

And while Trump has pledged to put “America First,” his national security advisers have warned that the Afghan forces are still far too weak to succeed without help. That is especially important as the Taliban advance and a squeezed Islamic State group looks for new havens beyond Syria and Iraq.

Even now, Afghan’s government controls just half the country.

Wary that the president is prone to last-minute decisions, officials at the White House, Pentagon and State Department remained tight-lipped about the plan ahead of Trump’s 9 p.m. EDT televised address from Army’s Joint Base Myer-Henderson Hall.

But early statements from advisers and military officials suggested Trump had lined up behind a plan the Pentagon put forward earlier this year, involving sending close to 4,000 more U.S. troops to Afghanistan to boost the roughly 8,400 there now. At its peak, the U.S. had roughly 100,000 forces there, under the Obama administration in 2010-2011.

The Pentagon does not claim the troop increase will end the conflict, but military officials maintain it could help stabilize the Afghan government and break a stalemate with the Taliban.

Plus keep in mind he has already dropped the largest conventional weapon ever used in war on Afghanistan. He isn't going to be calling the troops home. 4,000 troops will not be enough to change anything in Afghanistan- it will continue to grind along very slowly. Could be another 16 years.

[goldenequity]

cheetohs at the ready? aye captain.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oqtd2H0kCo

[r3volution 3.0]

Ladies and gentlemen, the Teleprompter of the United States of America.

[r3volution 3.0]

In talking about coming together, overcoming divisions, yada yada, he's using the military as a model of "perfect cohesion."

...a bit odd that, to compare a society to an army.

[bunklocoempire]

lol

He got the briefing, it's all different now.

[r3volution 3.0]

Now he's building up the justification for flip-flopping on pulling out...

...."things look different from behind the desk in the oval office" (paraphrase)

:rolleyes:

[Origanalist]

Lol, now that he's pres it's all different.

[Origanalist]

Channeling George W. Bush.

[Origanalist]

Evil doers...yada yada yada

[acptulsa]

Who is this orange neocon on my television?

[r3volution 3.0]

Now he's citing the "premature withdrawal" from Iraq as a reason to not make the same "mistake" in Afghanistan...

...it was that "premature withdrawal" which generated ISIS, doncha know (not removing Saddam or arming jihadis in Syria, of course)

[Origanalist]

Who is this orange neocon on my television?

I don't know, but I'm done. I have heard this song before.

[Zippyjuan]

(he led in by saying the US should not be involved in state building).

1) US must seek "honorable and durable outcome". US deserves a victory.
2) Consequences of a quick exit predictable and unacceptable. Would leave "terrorist vacuum." (so would removing Assad in Syria- my note)
3) Security threats the US faces in Afghanistan are significant.

War not ending anytime soon. Then he starts talking like George W. Bush. US should be world's policeman.

Policy change based on conditions on the field, not time. Won't say how many troops. "America's enemies must not know our plans. They must not know when we will attack, but attack we will!"

"We are not nation building- we are killing terrorists!"

[acptulsa]

If 'determined to kill women and children' is the definition of terrorist, then 'stripping terrorists of their territory' is going to cost him a lot of hotels and golf courses.

[r3volution 3.0]

"A core pillar of our new strategy is a shift away from a time based approach" (paraphrase)

i.e. we'll be there forever

[Raginfridus]

Ladies and gentlemen, the Teleprompter of the United States of America.lol I can't rep anyone yet, can someone help me out?

1) There is no victory for an endless war...
2) No, 9/11 was NOT planned in Afghanistan, and the Taliban did NOT aid Al-Qaeda!
3) So gtfo, dummy!

[acptulsa]

Total war in the Graveyard of Empires so Russia can't have pipelines and the CIA can control the poppies.

Get ready to be further impoverished.

Oh, great. Pakistan now. Did they close their Rothschild Central Bank (TM)?

[r3volution 3.0]

Talking about working with Pakistan to eliminate the safe-haven...

...Gee whiz, why didn't anyone think of that before?

[insert video montage of Bush/Obama saying the same thing 50 times]

[liveandletlive]

so much winning, we're gonna get tired of winning.

[Brian4Liberty]

Trump to India: "We are from the US government, and we are here to help."

[Zippyjuan]

Develop stronger military relation with India. Demand Pakistan does more.

More "tools of engagement" to the military. "No place is out of reach of American military".

Wants more money and troops from allies.

Wants Afghanistan to offer US money to help pay for US forces from their resources? Will help them rebuild so they can "pay us back".

[liveandletlive]

what's Bannon got to say about this, lets hope he hits Donald hard

[bunklocoempire]

Listening to Fox today, it sounds like the plan is to fail with "4,000" for a while, and then let any Trump challenger come in with an Erik Prince solution.

New strategy sounds a whole lot like the old strategy.

[liveandletlive]

if he wants more money for our military, start with our BUMBLING Navy. can't seem to sail in open waters safely. otherwise withdraw all troops from afghanistan.

[acptulsa]

Afghans will secure and govern their own nation. We will develop commercial interests to defray our costs.

In other words, we'll set up Afghani stooges to let us raid their natural resources, and we'll help them tax the shit out of their goat herders.

[Origanalist]

899802342073282560

[r3volution 3.0]

Now he's bragging about increased DoD funding...

[Brian4Liberty]

and suddenly...
Gen. Kelly waved his magic wand... and.....
there were...
no
more
leaks.

(usually we'd have the full text and cliff notes by now.)

Neocons and leftists don't leak when it's their agenda.

[Swordsmyth]

"I have a plan" "We will come home WHEN WE HAVE WON"

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Pt694QDAx6Y%2FUIqWGxt2GGI%2FAAAAAAAAAaw%2FtDRxI0-5lRo%2Fs1600%2Ftrustinme.JPG&f=1

[acptulsa]

Hundreds of thousands of our bravest lie in Arlington. And we're going to send them a lot of company, even though nobody in Afghanistan is an actual threat to us.

[Zippyjuan]

Four word summary? "More of the same."

"I have a plan".

[r3volution 3.0]

"We will push on to victory with power in our hearts..."

WTF does that mean?

[bunklocoempire]

Is shedding blood for my nation the same as shedding blood for my rights and property?

[Brian4Liberty]

Yada, yada, yada, status quo, yada, yada...

[bunklocoempire]

Hundreds of thousands of our bravest lie in Arlington. And we're going to send them a lot of company, even though nobody in Afghanistan is an actual threat to us.

Well, ya know, honor and stuff.

[acptulsa]

More Blood for Pipelines and Poppies! Yay!

[nikcers]

cheetohs at the ready? aye captain.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oqtd2H0kCo
LOL AHAHAHAHAHA @ THE GUY AFTERWARDS SOUNDED SO DEPRESSED. He gets paid to spin not to act, the spin is he is doing it because he loves you lol. He goes whether you agree with Trump or not that guy looks like he loves America. You ever had an insane person attacking you with a chainsaw saying I love you don't run away? That's what it feels like to me.

[CaptUSA]

So I'm not watching, but from what you guys are posting, it looks pretty much like what we were expecting. Sorry for the ones who got fell for his sales pitch. :(

[Origanalist]

Hundreds of thousands of our bravest lie in Arlington. And we're going to send them a lot of company, even though nobody in Afghanistan is an actual threat to us.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHzAQTDV0AAyT3H.jpg

[KEEF]

YES!!! I WAS HOPING HE WAS GOING TO SAY MORE WAR!!!

MAGA!!! 'MERICA!!! MAGA!!! Burp...

<SARCASM>

[nikcers]

So I'm not watching, but from what you guys are posting, it looks pretty much like what we were expecting. Sorry for the ones who got fell for his sales pitch. :(
It's what you were expecting plus he mentions Pakistan a lot, and how much we love our ally India.

[Feeding the Abscess]

"We will push on to victory with power in our hearts..."

WTF does that mean?

It means his speechwriter clearly listens to European power metal.

[nikcers]

YES!!! I WAS HOPING HE WAS GOING TO SAY MORE WAR!!!

MAGA!!! 'MERICA!!! MAGA!!! Burp...

<SARCASM>
MAKE AFGHANISTAN GREAT AGAIN

[CaptUSA]

On the bright side, now he'll own it. Somehow Obama got away without ever really owning the disaster. The anti-war left is sure to wake up now. It's been a long coma.

[r3volution 3.0]

https://i.imgflip.com/1uhziv.jpg

[acptulsa]

On the bright side, now he'll own it. Somehow Obama got away without ever really owning the disaster. The anti-war left is sure to wake up now. It's been a long coma.

Antifa seems to be proof positive that defending Obama's wars has transformed the American Left forever.

[bunklocoempire]

It means his speechwriter clearly listens to European power metal.

lol

[Swordsmyth]

He is claiming that we won't start any new wars.
WE WILL SEE. (don't bet the farm)

[spudea]

I think he deserves a chance at his approach, Taliban and Isis are bad, Ron Paul authorized this war, and as Zippy loves to remind us, President Trump constantly changes his principles, and gives up when it gets too hard which means 1 year from now will be full withdraw.

[acptulsa]

Newest headstone in Afghanistan, the Graveyard of Empires: Soviet Union United States.

[Swordsmyth]

President Trump constantly changes his principles, and gives up when it gets too hard which means 1 year from now will be full withdraw.
We live in hope.

[nikcers]

On the bright side, now he'll own it. Somehow Obama got away without ever really owning the disaster. The anti-war left is sure to wake up now. It's been a long coma.
Sounds like its going to be bright for thousands of years if Pakistan gets involved. Plus on an unrelated bright note there seems to be a renewed push to clean up the nuclear waste piling up around nuclear power plants, seems like it may be too easy of a target.

[Brian4Liberty]

On the bright side, now he'll own it. Somehow Obama got away without ever really owning the disaster. The anti-war left is sure to wake up now. It's been a long coma.

Actually, he started the speech with a caveat that his instinct is to just pull out, but his military advisers essentially talked him out of it. He gave himself an out. If it all goes bad, he just has to say, "see, I told you so, I was right all along."

[r3volution 3.0]

Miss Linzi was just on, loves it, head over high heels.

[Brian4Liberty]

Plus on an unrelated bright note there seems to be a renewed push to clean up the nuclear waste piling up around nuclear power plants, seems like it may be too easy of a target.

Did he say that in the speech? Links?

[acptulsa]

Actually, he started the speech with a caveat that his instinct is to just pull out, but his military advisers essentially talked him out of it. He gave himself an out. If it all goes bad, he just has to say, "see, I told you so, I was right all along."

I'm sure that'll be a real comfort to the newest crop of military widows. But will it keep them from asking, what do you mean they were protecting us from a real danger?


Miss Linzi was just on, loves it, head over high heels.

Calling Graham kinky is a grave insult to kinky people.

[nikcers]

Did he say that in the speech? Links?
He did say that our interests lie in Afghanistan and Pakistan and that we demand they do more, as far as the unrelated nuclear waste..

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/nuclear-regulatory-commission-restarts-yucca-mountain-licensing-process/article/2630949

[goldenequity]

I noticed he 'withheld' on the Taliban.
He said Al-Qaeda and ISIS we will 'obliterate' them...
then
just 'mentioned' the Taliban.

There's been repeated instances of attempts/circumstances
to bribe and 'deal' with the Taliban in the latter years.
My instincts tell me this is 'the plan' cuz w/o it... there's no solution remotely possible.
It's unspoken.

[Swordsmyth]

I noticed he 'withheld' on the Taliban.
He said Al-Qaeda and ISIS we will 'obliterate' them...
then
just 'mentioned' the Taliban.

There's been repeated instances of attempts/circumstances
to bribe and 'deal' with the Taliban in the latter years.
My instincts tell me this is 'the plan' cuz w/o it... there's no solution remotely possible.
It's unspoken.

He said it was possible to have elements of the Taliban as part of the "Solution"

[goldenequity]

He said it was possible to have elements of the Taliban as part of the "Solution"

Transcript (http://www.npr.org/2017/08/21/545038935/watch-live-trump-s-address-on-afghanistan-next-steps-for-u-s-engagement)

Another fundamental pillar of our new strategy is the integration of all instruments of American power: diplomatic, economic, and military, toward a successful outcome. Someday, after an effective military effort, perhaps it will be possible to have a political settlement that includes elements of the Taliban and Afghanistan, but nobody knows if or when that will ever happen.

America will continue its support for the Afghan government and the Afghan military as they confront the Taliban in the field.

The next pillar of our new strategy is to change the approach in how to deal with Pakistan. We can no longer be silent about Pakistan's safe havens for terrorist organizations, the Taliban, and other groups that pose a threat to the region and beyond.

Our troops will fight to win. We will fight to win. From now on, victory will have a clear definition — attacking our enemies, obliterating ISIS, crushing al Qaeda, preventing the Taliban from taking over Afghanistan and stopping mass terror attacks against America before they emerge.

[nikcers]

He said it was possible to have elements of the Taliban as part of the "Solution"
To me that's what he said as an ultimatum to the Afghanistan government not playing ball. Like and if they don't play ball we'll just support the Talban. I'd love for that to be just some sort of a Trumpism. Please someone tell me the Pakistan is as bad as Afghanistan language was a Trumpism too, can we have one of those Trump spinners spin it for me in a way that isn't he is doing it because he loves me because I am having trouble keeping calm and carrying on..

[Swordsmyth]

To me that's what he said as an ultimatum to the Afghanistan government not playing ball. Like and if they don't play ball we'll just support the Talban. I'd love for that to be just some sort of a Trumpism. Please someone tell me the Pakistan is as bad as Afghanistan language was a Trumpism too, can we have one of those Trump spinners spin it for me in a way that isn't he is doing it because he loves me because I am having trouble keeping calm and carrying on..
I think he is keeping his options open so he can do whatever is best for him.

[Dr.3D]

Newest headstone in Afghanistan, the Graveyard of Empires: Soviet Union United States.
Yeah, USSR went bankrupt there.... and the media says it was "Star Wars" that dun it.

[Origanalist]

899812802487095296

[sdsubball23]

So do you guys Afghanistan is a worthy cause or are there ulterior motives for our involvement there? Is there really a terrorist threat there?

[acptulsa]

So do you guys Afghanistan is a worthy cause or are there ulterior motives for our involvement there? Is there really a terrorist threat there?

We're there to prevent Russia from building a pipeline across it to transport natural gas from the Caucuses to the sea, to build our own pipeline across it from the Caucuses to the sea, because it's the best place on earth to grow poppies (the CIA likes to control the source of the world's opiates) and because it's one of, like, three places on earth (with Iran and North Korea) which does not have a Rothschild central bank printing its money.

Dubya said bin Laden was there, but as you'll recall, we found him in Pakistan. Why Trump is pretending Afghanistan is a major source of terrorism isn't hard to figure out. But it ain't so.

[Swordsmyth]

So do you guys Afghanistan is a worthy cause or are there ulterior motives for our involvement there?
No and yes.


Is there really a terrorist threat there?
No.

[r3volution 3.0]

Is there really a terrorist threat there?

Why are training camps in the desert halfway around the world necessary for some clown to rent a car in NYC and crash it into a crowd?

...the whole "fight them over there or fight them over here" bit is nonsensical.

[sdsubball23]

We're there to prevent Russia from building a pipeline across it to transport natural gas from the Caucuses to the sea, to build our own pipeline across it from the Caucuses to the sea, because it's the best place on earth to grow poppies (the CIA likes to control the source of the world's opiates) and because it's one of, like, three places on earth (with Iran and North Korea) which does not have a Rothschild central bank printing its money.

Dubya said bin Laden was there, but as you'll recall, we found him in Pakistan. Why Trump is pretending Afghanistan is a major source of terrorism isn't hard to figure out. But it ain't so.

Do you have any sources for your conclusions?

[acptulsa]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?434649-After-12-Yrs-of-U-S-Occupation-Afghanistan-Sets-Record-for-Growing-Opium

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?226706-Another-real-reason-for-the-Afghanistan-Pakistan-War-a-natural-gas-pipeline-(article)

There's lots more on this site, if you can trick the search engine into finding it for you.

[Origanalist]

Trump owns this war now.

[Swordsmyth]

Trump owns this war now.

Maybe now the media will attack him for it, and maybe he will then get us out.

[Ender]

We're there to prevent Russia from building a pipeline across it to transport natural gas from the Caucuses to the sea, to build our own pipeline across it from the Caucuses to the sea, because it's the best place on earth to grow poppies (the CIA likes to control the source of the world's opiates) and because it's one of, like, three places on earth (with Iran and North Korea) which does not have a Rothschild central bank printing its money.

Dubya said bin Laden was there, but as you'll recall, we found him in Pakistan. Why Trump is pretending Afghanistan is a major source of terrorism isn't hard to figure out. But it ain't so.

Actually OBL died in Dec of 2001 from terminal illness and had nothing to do with 911. The whole Pakistan charade was a false flag.

[acptulsa]

Maybe now the media will attack him for it, and maybe he will then get us out.

I predict a major thaw in MSM-Trump relations, now that he has come out of the closet as the Orange Neocon.

And Ender, you'll note I didn't say we found him alive. I just said we found him in Pakistan.

[Swordsmyth]

Now we have THE ISSUE for a primary challenge.

Will someone rise to champion it?

[Influenza]

wtf I only logged on to read danno comments I'm really disappointed this is BS

[Zippyjuan]

wtf I only logged on to read danno comments I'm really disappointed this is BS

Trump can have that effect on people.

[francisco]

wtf I only logged on to read danno comments I'm really disappointed this is BS

lol, me too

[Swordsmyth]

In Angry Tweetstorm, Ron Paul Lashes Out At "Neocon" Trump
Below is a chronological rundown of Ron Paul's progressively angier tweets, (https://twitter.com/RonPaul)as he was live commenting on Trump's speech:


Hoping for the best in tonight's @realDonaldTrump speech but fearful that foreign intervention is only going to get worse. #Afghanistan
Steve Bannon brakes removed. Neocons feeling their oats.
The military personnel are the victims of bad foreign policy.
Sad that these wars the politicians argue for are unconstitutional yet we are told we are over there defending the Constitution.
Mr. President it's too bad you do not follow your instincts.
Planned in Afghanistan? What about Saudi Arabia??
What's wrong with rapid exit? We just marched in we can just march out.
So far very discouraging. Sounds like pure neocon foreign policy.
The promoters of war win. The American people lose. #Afghanistan
Remember: there was no al-Qaeda until our foolish invasion of Iraq based on neocon lies.
The American people deserve to know when we are going to war and MUST give you permission through their representatives in Congress!
Emphasis on Pakistan just means the war going to be expanded!
Emphasis on military alliance with India may well lead to more vicious war between nuclear states Pakistan and India. Smart?
Terrorism is one thing, but what about massive collateral damage? Killing civilians creates more terrorism. Round and round we go.
Shorter Trump: "Afghanistan: give us your minerals!"
Nothing new. More of the same. Obama was wrong. This is NOT the good war. Sooner we get out the better.
More killing is not the road to peace.
The emphasis on the "grave danger" of terrorism is greatly exaggerated. But more intervention surely creates more terrorism.
How many Americans are really sitting around worrying about an Afghan terrorist coming over and killing them?
So many of our problems are self-inflicted by a deeply flawed foreign policy. US troops - and the family members - suffer the consequences.
Big issue of the night: US expanding the war into Pakistan. Could precipitate more conflict between nuclear India and Pakistan.
If Americans are tired of 16 year war, how will they feel about another decade or two? When will they wake up?
Our ultimately "hasty" departure from Vietnam finally ended a lot of grief. Even if it came way too late.
Beware! LindseyGrahamSC loves Trump's speech! Why are arch-neocons celebrating so much? Very telling!
There's nothing hasty about ending America's longest war. potuS bowed to military-industrial establishment; doubled down on perpetual war.


More at: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-21/angry-tweetstorm-ron-paul-lashes-out-neocon-trump

[Ender]

I predict a major thaw in MSM-Trump relations, now that he has come out of the closet as the Orange Neocon.

And Ender, you'll note I didn't say we found him alive. I just said we found him in Pakistan.

Whatever they "found" wasn't OBL. Always wondered what they dumped in the ocean. ;)

[Pauls' Revere]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-to-unveil-afghanistan-strategy-in-televised-address-monday-1503262674

President Donald Trump will give a nationally televised address Monday night to unveil his strategy for the long-running war in Afghanistan, the White House said, a plan expected to include sending as many as 4,000 more troops to the country.

He’ll deliver the prime-time speech from Fort Myer in Arlington, Va., using the same sort of high-profile stage that his predecessor, Barack Obama, employed in laying out a new approach to the war in 2009. Mr. Obama delivered his speech before a national television audience at the U.S. Military Academy in West Point, N.Y., promising at the time to “bring this war to a successful conclusion.”


I'm sure I'll be disappointed.

Yep, diappointed.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-vows-fight-afghanistan-offering-new-details-025336264.html

After years of calling for a U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan, President Trump tried late Monday to rally the country behind an open-ended commitment to plunging as many as 4,000 additional U.S. troops into what is now America’s longest war.

Trump acknowledged that Americans are “weary of war without victory” nearly 16 years after the conflict began. He promised that he shared their frustrations — even as he overrode them with imperatives he said he learned after taking office.

But “a hasty withdrawal would create a vacuum [that] terrorists, including ISIS and al-Qaida, would instantly fill,” giving them room to plot attacks like the Sept. 11, 2001, strikes, the president said.

So, perpetual war. Logically then, any place we invade/attack we cannot leave as a vacuum would be filled.

[not.your.average.joe]

I'm watching this thinking - this is the justification for the police state at home.
1) The feds already have our information from spying on us
2) The feds send the military to kill anyone they dislike, disagree with, or feel threatened by
3) The feds claim it was a mistake (the military shot the wrong person when going after a suspected terrorist in America), which is now believable, because the military operates in secret - 'it was an accident' much like those police headlines I see on here all the time

The final move comes when 3) ceases to exist or become necessary, leaving only 1) and 2).

[Pauls' Revere]

Develop stronger military relation with India. Demand Pakistan does more.

More "tools of engagement" to the military. "No place is out of reach of American military".

Wants more money and troops from allies.

Wants Afghanistan to offer US money to help pay for US forces from their resources? Will help them rebuild so they can "pay us back".

I erpt in my throat.

[Pauls' Revere]

Afghans will secure and govern their own nation. We will develop commercial interests to defray our costs.

In other words, we'll set up Afghani stooges to let us raid their natural resources, and we'll help them tax the $#@! out of their goat herders.

Can you say Iran 1970's?

[Pauls' Revere]

Four word summary? "More of the same."

"I have a plan".

Yeah, sounds like the times I got drunk with my buddies. Something terrible always starts with one of us saying "I have a great idea".

[Raginfridus]

Do you have any sources for your conclusions?Why do you think the Soviets were keen on holding Afghanistan?

Also, by May of '01, the Taliban had eradicated poppy production. The Times still have an article from the period corroborating this fact. The Talib(an) were almost successful in subduing the plundering, "mujahedin" warlords, to bring about a united, Islamic Afghanistan, as the anti-bolshevik traditionalists had asked for. Then we stepped in, and the warlords became the moderate opposition. By securing and aiding the frontier warlords, we sponsor the plundering and sectarian wars. If we left Afghanistan to another strongman in the Taliban, they could pacify the country again, but Afghanistan will never be secure as long as we stay, but that's why we stay - we don't want security, we want hell on earth.

[Aratus]

On the bright side, now he'll own it. Somehow Obama got away without ever really owning the disaster. The anti-war left is sure to wake up now. It's been a long coma.

He talked about a tight lid on both information and public debates. Keeping Congress out of the loop and/or less informed. Censorship.

[Aratus]

899802342073282560


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHzAQTDV0AAyT3H.jpg


In Angry Tweetstorm, Ron Paul Lashes Out At "Neocon" Trump
Below is a chronological rundown of Ron Paul's progressively angier tweets, (https://twitter.com/RonPaul)as he was live commenting on Trump's speech:


Hoping for the best in tonight's @realDonaldTrump speech but fearful that foreign intervention is only going to get worse. #Afghanistan
Steve Bannon brakes removed. Neocons feeling their oats.
The military personnel are the victims of bad foreign policy.
Sad that these wars the politicians argue for are unconstitutional yet we are told we are over there defending the Constitution.
Mr. President it's too bad you do not follow your instincts.
Planned in Afghanistan? What about Saudi Arabia??
What's wrong with rapid exit? We just marched in we can just march out.
So far very discouraging. Sounds like pure neocon foreign policy.
The promoters of war win. The American people lose. #Afghanistan
Remember: there was no al-Qaeda until our foolish invasion of Iraq based on neocon lies.
The American people deserve to know when we are going to war and MUST give you permission through their representatives in Congress!
Emphasis on Pakistan just means the war going to be expanded!
Emphasis on military alliance with India may well lead to more vicious war between nuclear states Pakistan and India. Smart?
Terrorism is one thing, but what about massive collateral damage? Killing civilians creates more terrorism. Round and round we go.
Shorter Trump: "Afghanistan: give us your minerals!"
Nothing new. More of the same. Obama was wrong. This is NOT the good war. Sooner we get out the better.
More killing is not the road to peace.
The emphasis on the "grave danger" of terrorism is greatly exaggerated. But more intervention surely creates more terrorism.
How many Americans are really sitting around worrying about an Afghan terrorist coming over and killing them?
So many of our problems are self-inflicted by a deeply flawed foreign policy. US troops - and the family members - suffer the consequences.
Big issue of the night: US expanding the war into Pakistan. Could precipitate more conflict between nuclear India and Pakistan.
If Americans are tired of 16 year war, how will they feel about another decade or two? When will they wake up?
Our ultimately "hasty" departure from Vietnam finally ended a lot of grief. Even if it came way too late.
Beware! LindseyGrahamSC loves Trump's speech! Why are arch-neocons celebrating so much? Very telling!
There's nothing hasty about ending America's longest war. potuS bowed to military-industrial establishment; doubled down on perpetual war.


More at: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-21/angry-tweetstorm-ron-paul-lashes-out-neocon-trump

dang

[milgram]

Breitbart vs. Trump is underway

http://i.imgur.com/ykbhk7m.jpg

[Anti Federalist]

Steve Bannon brakes removed. Neocons feeling their oats.

Wait, I thought he was a NAZI prick and we were supposed to be happy he got thrown out on his ear.

And Ron Paul is speaking in favor of him?

I'm so confused.

[dannno]

Breitbart vs. Trump is underway

http://i.imgur.com/ykbhk7m.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Kyi0WNg40

[Anti Federalist]

https://media.makeameme.org/created/wait-wait-waitand.jpg

[Swordsmyth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Kyi0WNg40

Any other comments about this speech?

[Anti Federalist]

There's twin rivers of opium and heroin and non-central banked cash.

The "deep state" loves that, uses it to fund any number of "black" ops all around the globe.

You fuck with that, you die.

[Swordsmyth]

There's twin rivers of opium and heroin and non-central banked cash.

The "deep state" loves that, uses it to fund any number of "black" ops all around the globe.

You $#@! with that, you die.

If it weren't tragic it would be comic the way the leftist druggie morons never realize they are funding FASCISM.

[juleswin]

wtf I only logged on to read danno comments I'm really disappointed this is BS

lol, me too. I just want to see the excuses he makes this time.

[afwjam]

Where are the cucks in this thread?

[devil21]

The deep state is soooo getting it's ass kicked by 24D Trump chess, eh dannno?


On a global level, Americans are officially the NWO military. The designated population that goes wherever the globalists want in order to bring "non-compliance" into "compliance". They don't even care anymore whether their decrees make any sense whatsoever.

[Origanalist]

Any other comments about this speech?

https://pics.me.me/any-minute-now-memecrunch-com-17017720.png

[Origanalist]

Maybe now the media will attack him for it, and maybe he will then get us out.

acptulsa already addressed this but the media loves war. they will forget they hate him altogether if the body count escalates.

[Origanalist]

899805597633302528

[Origanalist]

Is Trump still an outsider?

[goldenequity]

Do you have any sources for your conclusions?

I just love it when cybernetics at foggy bottom 'checks in" and throws out 'benign' chunks of raw meat (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/search.php?searchid=21235325&pp=) into our threads.

So... sdsubball... how you been? Why don't you post a link to your FB page (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?492469-Donald-Trump-reveals-foreign-policy-team-in-meeting-with-The-Washington-Post&p=6176678&viewfull=1#post6176678) so we can see how 'active' you've been?

[liveandletlive]

Wait, I thought he was a NAZI prick and we were supposed to be happy he got thrown out on his ear.

And Ron Paul is speaking in favor of him?

I'm so confused.

Bannon served as a counter balance to the Neocons......doesnt mean people have to like Bannon on a personal level. i dont like wife beating alcoholics myself.

[shakey1]

Prime Time Address: Afghan Strategy

Absotively posilutety no surprises here... I think anyone here could've predicted this.

[ILUVRP]

the only way to end this bs in the middle east is to start the draft again , get some neocons/chicken hawks children/grandchildren over and we will see a quick end to this crazy crap , this bs over there will still be going on when trumps grandchildren are 17 yrs old , then they can go over there .

trump is finding out who runs this country and its not him .

[nikcers]

Bannon served as a counter balance to the Neocons......doesnt mean people have to like Bannon on a personal level. i dont like wife beating alcoholics myself.

You know- the problem with Bannon is he is a wolf in sheeps clothes to begin with when it comes to foreign policy- he has always been a neocon-

[Anti Federalist]

Bannon served as a counter balance to the Neocons......doesnt mean people have to like Bannon on a personal level. i dont like wife beating alcoholics myself.

The people I saw bashing him mentioned nothing about his personal life.

[goldenequity]

Here we go...

People's Daily,China
Pakistan to firmly support China on core interests: Pakistani Foreign Secretary
http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/0822/c90883-9258287.html

Pakistan to firmly support China on core interests: foreign secretary
(Xinhua) 08:19, August 22, 2017

http://en.people.cn/NMediaFile/2017/0822/FOREIGN201708220818000489786697612.jpg

=========

Asfandyar Bhittani
Pakistan should promptly:

Block NATO supply lines
Ban US funded NGOs/Media
Work with Russia/Iran/China on Afghanistan

#PakistanRejectsTrump

[goldenequity]

Trump: US Will Not Use Armed Forces to Build Democracy Abroad Anymore
https://sputniknews.com/politics/201708221056668735-trump-usa-wont-usa-army-building-democracy/


Not even 2 weeks ago: :D

Donald Trump threatens Venezuela's Nicolas Maduro with military action
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/11/donald-trump-threatens-venezuelas-nicolas-maduro-military-option/

=======

Wael Al Hussaini
Exclusive:
(1) The #US tried to open a direct talks with the #Syria/n government via #Oman as mediation
The #Syria/n government refused.

(2) the #Syrian rejection came after the #US demanded to meet out-side #Syria (not in #Oman)
The Syrians insisted to meet in #Damascus

[Brian4Liberty]

We're there to prevent Russia from building a pipeline across it to transport natural gas from the Caucuses to the sea, to build our own pipeline across it from the Caucuses to the sea, because it's the best place on earth to grow poppies (the CIA likes to control the source of the world's opiates) and because it's one of, like, three places on earth (with Iran and North Korea) which does not have a Rothschild central bank printing its money.

Dubya said bin Laden was there, but as you'll recall, we found him in Pakistan. Why Trump is pretending Afghanistan is a major source of terrorism isn't hard to figure out. But it ain't so.

It's usually a confluence of reasons. All of those apply. But let's not forget the most basic strategy. The Empire wants a beachhead in Central Asia. Afghanistan is it. A base of operations to launch attacks on other nations. Pakistan was mentioned, but look at the neighbor on the other side that was not mentioned in the speech: Iran. That is the major motivation.


Can you say Iran 1970's?

Or Operation Iran Chaos 2018...

[Brian4Liberty]

Actually OBL died in Dec of 2001 from terminal illness and had nothing to do with 911. The whole Pakistan charade was a false flag.

Yeah, that's a conspiracy hypothesis that I don't buy into. Carry on.

[acptulsa]

It's usually a confluence of reasons. All of those apply. But let's not forget the most basic strategy. The Empire wants a beachhead in Central Asia.

Well, I disagree it's the goal. Natural gas is always a major factor in their schemes, and the greatest spot on earth for growing poppies (with the market for opioids the way it is in an America full of old baby boomers) is bound to fill the drug-dealing CIA with lust.

But, yes, of all the major motivating factors, that's certainly another one of them. Maybe not the easiest one to spoon feed to sdssubball23, but valid and compelling nonetheless.


Yeah, that's a conspiracy hypothesis that I don't buy into. Carry on.

Nor I. But after seeing both Dubya and Obama kiss the Saudi Royal Ring, I do firmly believe that after the Saudi royal bin Laden died of his useless kidneys, we were called in to, shall we say, provide the funeral arrangements.

[Brian4Liberty]

Well, I disagree it's the goal. Natural gas is always a major factor in their schemes, and the greatest spot on earth for growing poppies (with the market for opioids the way it is in an America full of old baby boomers) is bound to fill the drug-dealing CIA with lust.

But, yes, of all the major motivating factors, that's certainly another one of them. Maybe not the easiest one to spoon feed to sdssubball23, but valid and compelling nonetheless.

It's what had the neocons like Rubio, McCain and Ms. Lindsey doing happy dances after the speech. It helps their Iran strategy. To confirm, some twit from The Weekling Standard was on Fox this morning emphasizing the Iran angle, and complaining that Trump didn't call Iran out specifically.

They celebrated yesterday, but now they wish he had been more explicit.

[jllundqu]

The deafening silence by the Trump supporters on these forums is all you need to know about Trump's 'new' Neoconner foreign policy.

I'd simply like to take this opportunity to deliver a public service message to those that tried to convince us just how 'non interventionist' Trump was going to be:

FUCK YOU, PISS OFF, and go back to reading National Review.... leave us Anti-war freedom lovers in peace. 3D chess, my ass.

And let me spare you the usual... "BUT BUT HILLARY WOULD HAVE BEEN WORSE" bullshit... we ain't buying what your peddling.

[acptulsa]

And let me spare you the usual... "BUT BUT HILLARY WOULD HAVE BEEN WORSE" bull$#@!... we ain't buying what your peddling.

Actually, I believe the Wicked Witch of Western Arkansas would have been worse. About an inch worse. Perhaps two teaspoons worse. Maybe four grams worse.

Rand got thrown under the bus because we had better odds of nominating the guy who was getting more press, and he was the lesser evil. So we pissed away all that public dissatisfaction--our best chance in a lifetime--to get guaranteed two teaspoons less evil. Well. Hand out the medals.

[Raginfridus]

Well, I disagree it's the goal. Natural gas is always a major factor in their schemes, and the greatest spot on earth for growing poppies (with the market for opioids the way it is in an America full of old baby boomers) is bound to fill the drug-dealing CIA with lust.Afghanistan was supplying half the world's production of opium poppies (http://www.nytimes.com/1997/11/25/world/taliban-pledge-to-rid-afghan-province-of-opium-poppies.html?mcubz=3), before the Taliban initiated their purge of the crop. By late May '01, the UN and US were in agreement: the Taliban had eradicated poppy. What's the situation today?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/11/25/18/2ECE57D300000578-3333877-Iran_and_New_Zealand_treat_the_most_people_for_dru g_abuse_This_m-a-98_1448475141900.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW2YWqVpT4E

Big Pharma battle heroine addiction with, you guessed it: opiates. Our military are narco-terrorists, plain and simple.

[Ender]

Yeah, that's a conspiracy hypothesis that I don't buy into. Carry on.

Uh- not a conspiracy hypothesis. It was pretty well-known throughout the ME. Leaders who validated it ended up dead.
Not to mention OBL had nothing to do with 911. It was all a ruse for war.

Also, when the US was threatening war the Taliban even offered OBL to Bush IF he would be held & tried in a neutral country. Bush just bombed them instead.

[Brian4Liberty]

Big Pharma battle heroine addiction with, you guessed it: opiates. Our military are narco-terrorists, plain and simple.

So US big pharma is getting raw materials for opiate drugs straight from Afghanistan?

[Brian4Liberty]

Uh- not a conspiracy hypothesis. It was pretty well-known throughout the ME. Leaders who validated it ended up dead.
Not to mention OBL had nothing to do with 911. It was all a ruse for war.

Also, when the US was threatening war the Taliban even offered OBL to Bush IF he would be held & tried in a neutral country. Bush just bombed them instead.

Uh, yeah, it's a conspiracy hypotheses, as it has not been proven. As far as the odds of it being correct in it's entirety as you have stated, slim to slimmer.

[acptulsa]

So US big pharma is getting raw materials for opiate drugs straight from Afghanistan?

Poppies are the raw ingredient, and no land is more perfect for growing them.

[Brian4Liberty]

Poppies are the raw ingredient, and no land is more perfect for growing them.

But is there a legitimate pipeline of it being imported to US pharmaceutical companies? Or is it being done illegally? Or is there some other supplier?

I'd wager they could grow very nicely in other places, like California.

[Swordsmyth]

acptulsa already addressed this but the media loves war. they will forget they hate him altogether if the body count escalates.
Yes but they attacked Shrub Jr. over his wars, Republicans have a target painted on their backs even when they do what THEY want.

The media won't be satisfied until only Demoncrats hold office.

[goldenequity]

But is there a legitimate pipeline of it being imported to US pharmaceutical companies? Or is it being done illegally? Or is there some other supplier?


I have a 'favorite' place to bypass google algorithms/suppression on certain subjects...
so I just typed a simple search parameter for 'opioid' here (https://www.reddit.com/r/TruthLeaks/search?q=opioid&restrict_sr=on)
You should find many any/everything related.
and
a further tip: if/when you get to a 'transcript' (like a 'George' transcript)
and want to penetrate/search it:
open transcript/
open 'find' from your Win menu/
type in 'opioid'/
clik up/dwn arrows to highlight any/all text reference(s).

Here's Fentanyl (https://www.reddit.com/r/TruthLeaks/search?q=Fentanyl&restrict_sr=on)

[acptulsa]

But is there a legitimate pipeline of it being imported to US pharmaceutical companies? Or is it being done illegally? Or is there some other supplier?

I'd wager they could grow very nicely in other places, like California.

It is grown other places, including California. But opiate-producing poppies are very particular about their environment. Too much rain, and they just don't produce thebaine.

Here's an article from the New York Times in 2014 which doesn't mention Afghanistan, but certainly could point to a motivation for the Afghan Quagmire...

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/20/business/international/tasmania-big-supplier-to-drug-companies-faces-changes.html


Nearly a half-century of assiduous plant breeding, a gentle climate and tight regulations have given Tasmania a hammerlock on production of one of the pharmaceutical industry’s most important raw materials. Tasmania, which is about the size of West Virginia, grows about 85 percent of the world’s thebaine, an opium poppy extract used to make OxyContin and a family of similarly powerful prescription drugs that have transformed pain management over the last two decades. It produces all of the world’s oripavine, another extract, which is used to treat heroin overdoses and shows promise in controlling other addictions. Tasmania also accounts for a quarter of the world’s morphine and codeine, two older painkillers from opium poppies that are still widely used, particularly outside North America.

But the global pharmaceutical industry is increasingly worried that it is hooked on the island’s opium poppy supplies.

The two manufacturers that dominate Tasmanian opium extract production have begun twin battles to diversify supply sources and alter the plant’s genome to produce a stronger, more productive crop. The manufacturers, GlaxoSmithKline and Johnson & Johnson, provide narcotic alkaloids to their own painkiller units and to other companies worldwide, which have started demanding that the two giants act to ensure reliable supplies.

“They look at the map of the world, see Tasmania at the bottom, and say, ‘Are we taking a hemispheric risk, and putting all our eggs in one basket?’ ” said Steve Morris, the general manager of opiates for GlaxoSmithKline.

[Ender]

Uh, yeah, it's a conspiracy hypotheses, as it has not been proven. As far as the odds of it being correct in it's entirety as you have stated, slim to slimmer.

Actually it was reported and then covered up.

Here's a tiny bit of a whole page of reports about OBL's death that have "disappeared".


In light of Sy Hersh’s claim that the raid on Osama bin Laden in 2011 is “one big lie,” here’s an overview of evidence in support of an alternative narrative: bin Laden died in December 2001 in Tora Bora from a lung complication as a result of kidney failure starting at least since mid-2000.
All sources are from the mainstream news, many of which have since been “scrubbed” from the internet.

2000 to September 2001: Reports Emerge of bin Laden Dying From Kidney Disease

In March 2000 the Chicago Tribune reports that an Afghan witness and “Western intelligence official” say bin Laden is suffering from severe kidney and liver failure.

Link: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/…

This story was also picked up by CBS News in 2000, who outright lead with the title that “Bin Laden Reported to be Dying” from “kidney disease.”

Link: http://web.archive.org/web/20010212010328/..

http://www.anonews.co/binladen-died-2001/

[Raginfridus]

So US big pharma is getting raw materials for opiate drugs straight from Afghanistan?I don't know who supplies us pharm-grade opium, that's not the point. The point is, US-backed Afghanistan's heroine feeds a demand loop for Big Pharma's prescription opiates. Have the US manufactured the demand? Yes. Have Big Pharma colonized another clientele? Absolutely.

[Brian4Liberty]

Tillerson on TV right now talking about a peace accord in Afghanistan? Facilitate a peace process is the strategy?

So what was that Trump speech all about?

[Swordsmyth]

Tillerson on TV right now talking about a peace accord in Afghanistan? Facilitate a peace process is the strategy?

So what was that Trump speech all about?

Talk roughly and carry a big bouquet?

Pursue all options at once?

[dannno]

Tillerson on TV right now talking about a peace accord in Afghanistan? Facilitate a peace process is the strategy?

So what was that Trump speech all about?

He needed to fool the establishment into falling in love with him for a couple days again, get those oxytocin levels back up.

Last time he blew up an empty airbase.

This time he gave a speech.

Maybe next time he can just look into the camera funny.

[acptulsa]

He needed to fool the establishment into falling in love with him for a couple days again, get those oxytocin levels back up.

Well that didn't take long.

Is Paul Ryan gone yet?

[Swordsmyth]

He needed to fool the establishment into falling in love with him for a couple days again, get those oxytocin levels back up.

Last time he blew up an empty airbase.

This time he gave a speech.

Maybe next time he can just look into the camera funny.

What is becoming obvious is that Dump pursues ALL options at once until one is more successful for HIS interests, this means we have a chance to get more out of him than any other President in living memory but it does not mean he is on our side, if he thinks it is to his advantage he will invade China or Russia.

[acptulsa]

What is becoming obvious is that Dump pursues ALL options at once until one is more successful for HIS interests, this means we have a chance to get more out of him than any other President in living memory...

What, you can afford his purchase price? Because I can't.

Besides, he doesn't have a purchase price, per se. He takes bids. The auction isn't over until the MIC stops bidding.

[Swordsmyth]

What, you can afford his purchase price? Because I can't.

Besides, he doesn't have a purchase price, per se. He takes bids. The auction isn't over until the MIC stops bidding.

He still needs votes, that is what he wants from us, that is why we get some good things out of him, THEY wanted Jeb Shrub or Hitlery, they still want somebody else, he needs to get enough votes to force himself on THEM, then he does some of what they want so he can stay alive and keep power as a "lesser of two evils" to THEM.

[RonZeplin]

Trump used the phrase "Principled Realism" in his speech. IMO, this is the Trump Doctrine.

The same old plan, but more vague and secretive.

[Zippyjuan]

I have a plan- but can't tell you what it is (the enemy may be listening!) and am here on National TV to tell you all about it.

We will win and win big- but can't define what that means.

We aren't going to do any "nation building"- but if we leave before there is a nation established, there will be a vacuum.

He also hedged himself- by prefacing that his instincts said to leave Afghanistan, if his "new plan" (which sounds a lot like the old plan) fails, he can claim his instincts were right. Either way, there is a win- for Trump if not for America or Afghanistan.

[enhanced_deficit]

Great news is that Trump is great again.

Racist no more -- With promise of more War, Wall Street & Media cool with Trump again (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?514284-Racist-no-more-With-promise-of-more-War-Wall-Street-amp-Media-cool-with-Trump-again&)





Relational

Breaking: Trump considers withdrawal from Afghanistan (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?513651-Breaking-Trump-considers-withdrawal-from-Afghanistan&)

[goldenequity]

Here we go...

People's Daily,China
Pakistan to firmly support China on core interests: Pakistani Foreign Secretary
http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/0822/c90883-9258287.html

Pakistan to firmly support China on core interests: foreign secretary
(Xinhua) 08:19, August 22, 2017

http://en.people.cn/NMediaFile/2017/0822/FOREIGN201708220818000489786697612.jpg

=========

Asfandyar Bhittani
Pakistan should promptly:

Block NATO supply lines
Ban US funded NGOs/Media
Work with Russia/Iran/China on Afghanistan

#PakistanRejectsTrump

Reuters World
LIVE: Tillerson says U.S. aid, military assistance can be leveraged in discussions with Pakistan on Afghan situation

[goldenequity]

I noticed he 'withheld' on the Taliban.
He said Al-Qaeda and ISIS we will 'obliterate' them...
then
just 'mentioned' the Taliban.

There's been repeated instances of attempts/circumstances
to bribe and 'deal' with the Taliban in the latter years.
My instincts tell me this is 'the plan' cuz w/o it... there's no solution remotely possible.
It's unspoken.

BREAKING: US supports Afghan peace talks that result in Taliban 'legitimacy' - Tillerson
https://www.rt.com/usa/400460-tillerson-afghanistan-taliban-peace-talks-negotiation/


https://cdn.rt.com/files/2017.08/original/599b9450fc7e930d588b4567.jpg



Secretary of State Rex Tillerson says the new Afghanistan strategy may pave way for a peace deal
between Taliban militants and the Afghan government, bringing them “legitimacy,”
while the US leader does not consider it possible in the nearest future.

“Our new strategy breaks from previous approaches that set artificial, calendar-based deadlines,”
Tillerson said in a statement following US President Donald Trump's speech on a new Afghanistan strategy on Monday evening.

“We are making clear to the Taliban that they will not win on the battlefield,”
he warned, calling on the militants to come to the negotiating table.

“The Taliban has a path to peace and political legitimacy through a negotiated political settlement to end the war.
We stand ready to support peace talks between the Afghan government and the Taliban without preconditions,” Tillerson stated.

[r3volution 3.0]

Now we have THE ISSUE for a primary challenge.

Will someone rise to champion it?

Sen. Rand Paul: 16 Years On, It's Past Time To Bring Our Troops Home From Afghanistan (http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/347393-16-years-on-its-past-time-to-bring-our-troops-home-from)


The Trump administration is increasing the number of troops in Afghanistan and, by doing so, keeping us involved even longer in a 16-year-old war that has long since gone past its time.The mission in Afghanistan has lost its purpose, and I think it is a terrible idea to send any more troops into that war. It’s time to come home now.

Our war in Afghanistan began in a proper fashion. We were attacked on 9/11. The Taliban, who then controlled Afghanistan, were harboring al Qaeda, and after being warned, and after an authorization from Congress, our military executed a plan to strike back. Had I been in Congress then, I would have voted to authorize this military action.But as is typical, there was significant mission creep in Afghanistan. We went from striking back against those who attacked us, to regime change, to nation-building, to policing their country for them. And we do it all now with an authorization that is flimsy at best, with the reason blurred, and the costs now known. We do it with an authorization that was debated and passed before some of our newest military personnel were out of diapers. This isn’t fair to them, to the American people, or to a rational foreign policy.

The Afghanistan war going beyond its original mission has an enormous cost. First and most important is the cost to our troops. Deaths, injuries and unnecessary deployments causing harm to families are certainly the most important reason as to why you don’t go to wars that aren’t necessary.

Then comes the taxpayer. We have spent over $1 trillion in Afghanistan, and nearly $5 trillion on Middle East wars in the past 15 years. Would we not be better off with $5 trillion less in debt or using these funds in other, more productive ways?

Nation-building should not be our job, and it has consistently been a fool’s errand for us, particularly in this region. There is no reason to believe we can do it in Afghanistan, and certainly no reason to believe we can do it without a permanent, costly presence in the country.

So I strongly disagree with the administration’s actions here. I’ve spoken to the president, and I know he wants to end this war. We’ve all heard him say it. But talk won’t get it done. Although I’ve been informed that the president rejected larger expansions of troops than the one announced this week, that’s not good enough. He should have rejected this one and stuck to his principles. He knows this war is over, and he – unlike the last two presidents – should have the guts to end it for real, on his watch.

Regardless of the argument over the number of troops, I also will insist my colleagues take up a larger argument over the power to declare war. I believe we have allowed the executive to exercise far too much power in recent years.

This is one of the reasons I objected just before the recess when the Senate moved to consider the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA). I have an amendment that I will insist be considered that would repeal the 2001 AUMF on Afghanistan. That AUMF is outdated, overcome by events, and provides a feeble bit of cover for people who still want to be there.

If the president and my colleagues want to continue the war in Afghanistan, then at the very least Congress should vote on it. I’ll insist they do this fall, and I’ll be leading the charge for “no.”

[Swordsmyth]

Sen. Rand Paul: 16 Years On, It's Past Time To Bring Our Troops Home From Afghanistan (http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/347393-16-years-on-its-past-time-to-bring-our-troops-home-from)
But will he run again?

[r3volution 3.0]

But will he run again?

If enough people want him to run and express their support, I think he will. What he doesn't want to do, I'm sure, is repeat the experience of last primary, where he killed himself campaigning only to have his alleged base desert him last minute for an anti-liberty television clown. If the libertarian movement, along with enough genuine conservatives, rallied behind Rand, I think he'd love to have a second go at this creature in the White House.

[nikcers]

If enough people want him to run and express their support, I think he will. What he doesn't want to do, I'm sure, is repeat the experience of last primary, where he killed himself campaigning only to have his alleged base desert him last minute for an anti-liberty television clown. If the libertarian movement, along with enough genuine conservatives, rallied behind Rand, I think he'd love to have a second go at this creature in the White House.

In one of his more candid interviews he said he would do it again if he was given the chance. Just having an anti war POV on the debate stage was worth it to him probably, if he wasn't there Trump would of never ran on the platform he did.

[devil21]

If enough people want him to run and express their support, I think he will. What he doesn't want to do, I'm sure, is repeat the experience of last primary, where he killed himself campaigning only to have his alleged base desert him last minute for an anti-liberty television clown. If the libertarian movement, along with enough genuine conservatives, rallied behind Rand, I think he'd love to have a second go at this creature in the White House.

That seems like an inaccurate statement, considering Rand didn't even run past Iowa. No doubt the writing was on the wall that the media was placing Trump front and center in order to hand him the nomination on a platter but I think it's pretty hard to say everyone deserted Rand for Trump after only a single caucus. Sure, some did after Rand dropped but one caucus does not make a campaign.

[r3volution 3.0]

That seems like an inaccurate statement, considering Rand didn't even run past Iowa. No doubt the writing was on the wall that the media was placing Trump front and center in order to hand him the nomination on a platter but I think it's pretty hard to say everyone deserted Rand for Trump after only a single caucus. Sure, some did after Rand dropped but one caucus does not make a campaign.

He got 5% in Iowa, less than a quarter of what Ron got in 2012. The desertions had already happened.

I don't blame him for dropping out at that point...

Anyway, how about this: let's not argue. Instead, let's try again, and this time let's just win Iowa, as we should have last time.

Deal?

[devil21]

He got 5% in Iowa, less than a quarter of what Ron got in 2012. The desertions had already happened.

I don't blame him for dropping out at that point...

Anyway, how about this: let's not argue about. Instead, let's try again, and this time let's just win Iowa, as we should have last time.

Deal?

Meh. At this point, I'm pretty well convinced the entire process is scripted. We'll see what the future holds.

[Raginfridus]

Sen. Rand Paul: 16 Years On, It's Past Time To Bring Our Troops Home From Afghanistan (http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/347393-16-years-on-its-past-time-to-bring-our-troops-home-from)The rule is "once a spook, always a spook," but could Scheuer be the exception that proves the rule? I haven't heard from him in awhile, but he might make a good running mate.

Then again, if he's no exception, he could sink the candidacy.

[Swordsmyth]

Pakistan on Trump’s Afghanistan plan: Nopehttps://thinkprogress.org/trumps-plan-for-afghanistan-925a9aae10fc/

[Swordsmyth]

China defends ally Pakistan after Trump criticismhttps://www.yahoo.com/news/china-defends-ally-pakistan-trump-criticism-080912095.html

[nikcers]

This is all Ivanka's fault.
Trump Monday Prime Time Address: Afghan Strategy
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--WoRASo1PCQ/VPYlKudhPhI/AAAAAAAAWQQ/fZ7FtYzXwCE/s1600/ran.gif

[r3volution 3.0]

The rule is "once a spook, always a spook," but could Scheuer be the exception that proves the rule? I haven't heard from him in awhile, but he might make a good running mate.

Then again, if he's no exception, he could sink the candidacy.

He viciously attacked Rand back in 2014 for allegedly selling out to the hawks: then, later, jumped on the Trumpwagon.

...Raimondo syndrome.

So, I don't know if he's "always a spook" or nuts, but, either way, I'd want him nowhere near Rand's campaign.

[devil21]

He viciously attacked Rand back in 2014 for allegedly selling out to the hawks: then, later, jumped on the Trumpwagon.

...Raimondo syndrome.

So, I don't know if he's "always a spook" or nuts, but, either way, I'd want him nowhere near Rand's campaign.

It's part of waking up to the truth that damn near everything surrounding the 9/11 and OBL/AQ narrative was crap. Dare I say that even Ron's blowback statements weren't completely accurate (probably a political necessity however), so if one accepts that blowback wasn't what caused 9/11 then one must accept that Scheurer's OBL commentaries were crap. He, of all people, would know the real story about OBL. If he wasn't honest then indeed, once a spook, always a spook.

[LibertyEagle]

So I'm not watching, but from what you guys are posting, it looks pretty much like what we were expecting. Sorry for the ones who got fell for his sales pitch. :(

I don't think many of the people who supported him are happy about this at all. I know I am not. But, I am also not going to sit here and claim he hasn't done anything right. Because that would be a lie. Right out of the gate he shut down the Trans Pacific Partnership, he got us out of the Paris Climate deal, he has curtailed the growth of federal regulations, etc.

Damn sight short of what he promised and I am not at all happy about this interventionist crap. But, given the alternative, I would vote for him again. At least the way things sit right now.

Note: He is getting advice on foreign policy from the globalist pukes in his cabinet. Garbage in, garbage out. He needs to get rid of them. When he chose them, they were on the advice of others. I doubt he knew who to pick for foreign policy. This is one of the reasons I hoped that Ron would reach out to him on recommendations, when Trump was looking for candidates. As often as Trump changes staff, I suppose it's never too late. There certainly isn't anything to lose from Ron doing this.

[LibertyEagle]

He viciously attacked Rand back in 2014 for allegedly selling out to the hawks: then, later, jumped on the Trumpwagon.

...Raimondo syndrome.

So, I don't know if he's "always a spook" or nuts, but, either way, I'd want him nowhere near Rand's campaign.

It would be better if Commies, pretending to be libertarians, stayed away from him too.

[LibertyEagle]

Trump Monday Prime Time Address: Afghan Strategy
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--WoRASo1PCQ/VPYlKudhPhI/AAAAAAAAWQQ/fZ7FtYzXwCE/s1600/ran.gif

Rand has a good relationship with Trump. I hope and pray that he gets in Trump's ear over this. We have no business being in Afghanistan. Trump's instincts were right and now, he's being led into it by the freaking globalists in his cabinet.

[goldenequity]

Think the hegemons didn't intend this move? It's aimed directly at India.


China And Russia Defend Pakistan Against Trump’s Strategy
https://www.valuewalk.com/2017/08/china-russia-trumps-pakistan-strategy/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Addressing a daily news briefing on Tuesday, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying defended Pakistan after Trump’s speech and praised her country’s “all-weather” friend for making “great sacrifices” and “important contributions” in the fight against terrorism. Mrs. Chunying also called on the international community to “fully recognize” Islamabad’s struggle against terrorism.

Russia echoed a similar sentiment on Tuesday. When speaking to Russia’s “Afghanistan” daily, Russian Presidential Envoy to Afghanistan Zamir Kabulov lambasted Trump’s Pakistan strategy and insisted that Islamabad is “a key regional player to negotiate with.”

“Putting pressure [on Pakistan] may seriously destabilize the region-wide security situation and result in negative consequences for Afghanistan,” the Russian presidential envoy to Kabul said.

[fcreature]

Wait... those on the Trump train didn't see this coming? Really?

[nikcers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W19hb_VobMg