Restating the Obvious: An Open Letter from the Libertarian Movement

[r3volution 3.0]

Big hat-tip to Antischism for bringing this to our attention.

This is currently on the front page, but as far as I'm concerned, it can't get enough attention.

Vote in the poll if you please.


Today (August 12th, 2017), the “Unite the Right” rally is scheduled to proceed in Charlottesville, VA. The “Right” being united there isn’t just any “Right,” but one that welcomes white supremacists and self-described fascists. Multiple speakers will say this themselves, and the chants at a chaotic pre-event march the night before included Neo-Nazi slogans.

The purpose of this letter is to clarify the role for libertarianism in this rally – which is no role at all.

That clarification is necessary because it might appear otherwise. Three of the listed speakers have at one time or another identified as libertarians: Mike Enoch, Augustus Invictus, and Christopher Cantwell. Mike Enoch previously called himself a libertarian, but now mocks the philosophy as “autistic.” Augustus Invictus previously attempted to run for Senate through the Libertarian Party. Recently, though, he publicly changed his registration to Republican in disgust. Christopher Cantwell now seems ambivalent about his relationship with libertarianism and anarchism, but his primary identification is with fascism.

Regardless of how any speakers or attendees have identified in the past or present, we want to make clear that this event is not in any way a place for libertarianism. Among libertarians, some identify as “right-wing,” some as “left-wing,” and some as “radical centrists.” Virtually the entire outside political spectrum is mirrored within libertarianism, and this makes for no shortage of infighting. One area where the undersigned have consensus, however, is in a rejection of any attempt to connect white supremacy and fascism to libertarianism. Libertarians, including those who see themselves as on “the Right,” have no interest in uniting with the horrifically authoritarian “Right” – often called the “Alt-Right” – rallying in Charlottesville.

All this should be exceedingly obvious from even a cursory glance at the two movements.

On a historical note, modern-day libertarianism largely took root in the English-speaking world through Jewish intellectuals, some of whom fled the Nazis. Our movement grew as a revolt against fascism, Communism, and early twentieth-century progressivism. As Thomas Leonard has shown in his Illiberal Reformers, that third enemy’s intellectual history is closely interwoven with eugenics.

On the level of philosophy, libertarianism stresses the freedom of individuals even when that freedom goes against some supposed collective will. The entire point behind a politics of white supremacy is to replace free association with endless central planning and regulation on collectivist racial grounds. “Unite the Right” speaker Richard Spencer actively seeks to turn the United States into a 100% white ethno-state. It is impossible to conceive of this happening without a return of the total state and its horrors.

Despite the obvious incompatibility of that totalitarianism and libertarianism (of any kind), an attempted association between the two is unsurprising. Attempts at rebooting authoritarian movements often operate through a tactic called entryism. Entryism is where a smaller political movement attempts to capture a larger one and seize its resources. In cases like fascism and Communism, the tendency towards entryism is probably a joint product of amoral opportunism and an inability to rationally defend their views.

It is necessary, then, for libertarians to restate the exceedingly obvious and insist on the stark differences between our views and those of anyone with any affinity for National Socialist Germany.

We, the undersigned, affirm such a gulf between liberty and its opposite.

[timosman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGNXmivflso

[r3volution 3.0]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WgOv6RxbfKw/maxresdefault.jpg

http://www.quailcreekrockwall.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Agenda-clipart-e1417694309932-150x150.png

[Swordsmyth]

NOTHING is too strong a word, however I would say that libertarians or conservatives or minarchists or just about anybody sane should avoid working with these nuts, many of them are government provocateurs who would love nothing better than to black-wash us with the madness they promote.

[Anti Federalist]

Meh, already went through all this ten years ago with "newsletter-gate".

Push poll, limited options, not taking part.

[enhanced_deficit]

Should have added another set of anti-liberty neos (neo-cons) as they have made themselves a party to this debate. But yea that is stating the obvious and bit redundant. Just declaring self a "libertarian" ( Bill O'Rielly, Bill Maher, WaPo neocons etc) or supporting same sex wedding cakes does not make one so.

As noted elsewhere:


Not sure what exactly constitutes "alt right" as referred to in MSM headlines but would agree with above criticism if applied to the subset of "Right" (or "Left" or "Middle" for that matter) that champions collectivist,racist instigation of violence.

That said, recent history shows that violent, racist alt-Neocons supported by likes of WaPo have caused much more damage to humanity than current isolationst nationalist groups being labelled by them as "alt-Right" ever could. Racially motivated horrible revenge attack on people of Iraq, bloody spreading of freedom/racial equality values in Syria were just couple of the many recent examples of how deeply racist, collectivist WaPo supported political slave masters of likes of disgraced DGP (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?502216-Erection-2008-Video-Surfaces-Of-Obama-Flaunting-His-Junk-to-Reporters-on-Campaign-Plane&p=6451014&viewfull=1#post6451014) have been in practice. They got no moral authority to be judge of racially motivated violence.

2003: Washington Post ran 27 editorials in favor of Iraq invasion (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?458793-2003-Washington-Post-ran-27-editorials-in-favor-of-Iraq-invasion&)




On a historical note, modern-day libertarianism largely took root in the English-speaking world through Jewish intellectuals, some of whom fled the Nazis.

Max Blumenthal comes to mind too. Such facts should be publicized more often to counter impressions like these MSM news create about some preseent day high profile anti-liberty intellectuals.

Henry Kissinger supports ISIS (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?513877-Henry-Kissinger-supports-ISIS&)

[r3volution 3.0]

Meh, already went through all this ten years ago with "newsletter-gate".

Push poll, limited options, not taking part.

I remember "newsletter-gate" just fine myself.

Here's the difference AF; no one at that time was celebrating Ron's (alleged) connections to white nationalists.

No one at that time thought it helpful to the liberty movement to associated with NAZIs.

Now, evidently, some people do. Do you?

[Anti Federalist]

I remember "newsletter-gate" just fine myself.

Here's the difference AF; no one at that time was celebrating Ron's (alleged) connections to white nationalists.

No one at that time thought it helpful to the liberty movement to associated with NAZIs.

Now, evidently, some people do. Do you?

Nobody saying that, that I can see or celebrating as far as I can see.

I've already made my position clear: shame on us for sitting around with our thumbs up our asses while an agent of the leftist mob that is gearing itself up for real violence, attempted to assassinate the single most prominent political figure of the "liberty movement".

If the "alt right" has gotten out ahead of us on standing up and finally pushing back against the hate filled, genocidal left, then that's our fault.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Silliness like this "poll" help show why some liberty people will always be on the losing end. Some RPFers here criticize attacks on things like confederate monuments, and what these same RPFers do here? They actually criticize the protestors in Charlottesville trying to do something about it.

I am not even saying you had to show up. I'm saying some RPFers sit around and coffee klatch and STILL complain about someone who is trying to do something about the very thing the RPFer complains about.

There is a member here named Southron who actually showed up at the rally and gave a decent account of what happened. Southron explicitly said he is not a white nationalist. I suspect many there were not so-called white nationalists. I'll bet a good number were simply conservative Univ. of VA students who had enough. This generation has been called all kinds of names by academic institutions, media, elitists, etc. They're called racist, hateful, privileged, etc. They are ridiculed and belittled at every turn. Is it any surprise that they act cornered and lash out?

The world is not an either/or proposition. Yes, I am sure there were white nationalists protesting; however most rallies I have observed have people with views of varying degrees. I've attended a number of rallies in my life and there was always a great mix of political and social views, but still focused on one goal.

I hardly like Donald Trump, but this idea that things are no different is baloney. Maybe not different in many areas or greatly significant areas, but this is one area where it seems to be different. I would bet that if Clinton were president, the response would be much, much different. The people who actually bothered to protest within legal parameters might be facing some real consequences, both legally and otherwise. There would be some really significant White House directives against these groups (or more than usual), and you would never even hear about it.

Again, I find some of the passivity and criticism here rather ridiculous. If you think you can do better, then go out there. Some people will never do it, instead waiting in their fairy tale world with the hopes of all private roads and open borders. Now, coffee klatch away.

[Swordsmyth]

Silliness like this "poll" help show why some liberty people will always be on the losing end. Some RPFers here criticize attacks on things like confederate monuments, and what these same RPFers do here? They actually criticize the protestors in Charlottesville trying to do something about it.

I am not even saying you had to show up. I'm saying some RPFers sit around and coffee klatch and STILL complain about someone who is trying to do something about the very thing the RPFer complains about.

There is a member here named Southron who actually showed up at the rally and gave a decent account of what happened. Southron explicitly said he is not a white nationalist. I suspect many there were not so-called white nationalists. I'll bet a good number were simply conservative Univ. of VA students who had enough. This generation has been called all kinds of names by academic institutions, media, elitists, etc. They're called racist, hateful, privileged, etc. They are ridiculed and belittled at every turn. Is it any surprise that they act cornered and lash out?

The world is not an either/or proposition. Yes, I am sure there were white nationalists protesting; however most rallies I have observed have people with views of varying degrees. I've attended a number of rallies in my life and there was always a great mix of political and social views, but still focused on one goal.

I hardly like Donald Trump, but this idea that things are no different is baloney. Maybe not different n many areas or greatly significant areas, but this is one area where it seems to be different. I would bet that if Clinton were president, the response would be much, much different. The people who actually bothered to protest within legal parameters might be facing some real consequences, both legally and otherwise. There would be some really significant White House directives against these groups (or more than usual), and you would never even hear about it.

Again, I find some of the passivity and criticism here rather ridiculous. If you think you can do better, then go out there. Some people will never do it, instead waiting in their fairy tale world with the hopes of all private roads and open borders. Now, coffee klatch away.

I agree with you about the rally, but the thread question did not ask about that, it simply refers to NAZIs and the alt-right.
The sane people at the rally were only undercut and black-washed by working with them.

[r3volution 3.0]

Nobody saying that, that I can see or celebrating as far as I can see.

Then you need new glasses bud.


I've already made my position clear: shame on us for sitting around with our thumbs up our asses while an agent of the leftist mob that is gearing itself up for real violence, attempted to assassinate the single most prominent political figure of the "liberty movement".

If the "alt right" has gotten out ahead of us on standing up and finally pushing back against the hate filled, genocidal left, then that's our fault.

Well, that's as good as a vote.

[r3volution 3.0]

I agree with you about the rally, but the thread question did not ask about that, it simply refers to NAZIs and the alt-right.
The sane people at the rally were only undercut and black-washed by working with them.

Perhaps the person you're speaking to thinks otherwise

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I agree with you about the rally, but the thread question did not ask about that, it simply refers to NAZIs and the alt-right.
The sane people at the rally were only undercut and black-washed by working with them.


The poll wording is nonsense.

I also find it interesting that the thread title of RonPaulMall (guy with the John Wilkes Booth avatar) was changed from Unite the Right Rally to The libertarian movement has no affinity with the Unite the Right Rally. It seems to be linked with this "open letter" that is placed elsewhere on this site. RonPaulMall was not the one who changed it.

That thread title was actually quite neutral, as far as thread titles go. Why change a thread title that actually describes the exact content of a thread? Why add a value judgment to someone else's thread? I'll tell you why. It's because the same passivity that permeates society about these issues is alive and well even on discussion forums. Speaking out about it on a forum is the first step. If you're not even willing to speak up or defend yourself (let alone go on the offensive), then good luck getting anything done.

[Anti Federalist]

There is a member here named Southron who actually showed up at the rally and gave a decent account of what happened. Southron explicitly said he is not a white nationalist. I suspect many there were not so-called white nationalists. I'll bet a good number were simply conservative Univ. of VA students who had enough. This generation has been called all kinds of names by academic institutions, media, elitists, etc. They're called racist, hateful, privileged, etc. They are ridiculed and belittled at every turn. Is it any surprise that they act cornered and lash out?

No surprise at all. I have seen many more than one prominent voice of the left over the last year or so, speak out in favor utter elimination of white people.

Now, maybe the people that are showing fits of righteous indignation at this whole incident, maybe they are not white or maybe they consider it all just "blowhard-ism" or maybe they just don't care.

The fact of the matter is that some people do care and have obviously, as you suggested, have had enough.

[Anti Federalist]

Well, that's as good as a vote.

Oh, what did I vote for?

[r3volution 3.0]

I also find it interesting that the thread title of RonPaulMall (guy with the John Wilkes Booth avatar) was changed from Unite the Right Rally to The libertarian movement has no affinity with the Unite the Right Rally. It seems to be linked with this "open letter" that is placed elsewhere on this site. RonPaulMall was not the one who changed it.

The Mods changed it, for the reason that this is a libertarian site, not a neo-NAZI site.


Why change a thread title that actually describes the exact content of a thread? I'll tell you why. It's because the same passivity that permeates society about these issues is alive and well even on discussion forums. Speaking out about it on a forum is the first step. If you're not even willing to speak up or defend yourself (let alone go on the offensive), then good luck getting anything done.

Much simpler explanation - the owner of this site is still a libertarian.

This isn't Stormfront, however much certain people wish it were.

[r3volution 3.0]

Oh, what did I vote for?

Best I can tell, option #2 (if with hesitation, because you know it's wrong)

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

The Mods changed it, for the reason that this is a libertarian site, not a neo-NAZI site.

I know exactly who changed the title. The title was neutral, describing an event. It was not the value judgment you placed on it.

[Anti Federalist]

Best I can tell, option #2 (if with hesitation, because you know it's wrong)

Oh, OK, thanks for the clarification.

[dannno]

I support their first amendment rights, unlike Antifa, who went and started throwing rocks, throwing urine on people and macing people.

[acptulsa]

The Mods changed it, for the reason that this is a libertarian site, not a neo-NAZI site.



Much simpler explanation - the owner of this site is still a libertarian.

The original thread title was also more than four words, and not all that neutral. In fact, it specifically mentioned the 'alt-right'.

Furthermore, I see no sign that any significant number of people here believe the protestors were all stormfronters, or that they had no right to free speech, or even that they'd have had no right to free speech if they were all 'alt-right'.

So I'm at a loss what the screed is all about.


I know exactly who changed the title. The title was neutral, describing an event. It was not the value judgment you placed on it.

I have no doubt you're remembering correctly who changed it. I also have no doubt you're not remembering the original title correctly.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

No surprise at all. I have seen many more than one prominent voice of the left over the last year or so, speak out in favor utter elimination of white people.

.


And these people do all of this with a straight face, and spend money from your paycheck to boot. Here's one (link below). It's called the White Privilege Conference. It was held in Kansas City this year.

Yeah, sure; white people are supposed to stand around to be ridiculed and belittled. White people decline to be ridiculed and belittled and that is somehow a problem. Yeah, and white people are the hateful ones. :rolleyes:


http://www.whiteprivilegeconference.com/

[r3volution 3.0]

The original thread title was also more than four words, and not all that neutral. In fact, it specifically mentioned the 'alt-right'.

Furthermore, I see no sign that any significant number of people here believe the protestors were all stormfronters, or that they had no right to free speech, or even that they'd have had no right to free speech if they were all 'alt-right'.

So I'm at a loss what the screed is all about.

BLM et al say the same thing. It's a canard...

No one's questioning anyone's right to free speech.

Criticizing the asinine things that NAZIs or bolsheviks say is itself an exercise in free speech, of course.

The purpose of the OP is to clearly distinguish between liberalism/libertarianism and the alt-right/neo-NAZIsm.

...which certain persons ($$$?) are hell bent on equating.

...for very obvious political purposes.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

The original thread title was also more than four words, and not all that neutral. In fact, it specifically mentioned the 'alt-right'.

*
I have no doubt you're remembering correctly who changed it. I also have no doubt you're not remembering the original title correctly.





No, it was not more than four words. I was sitting here the exact minute RonPaulMall posted it. It was called Unite the Right Rally.

It might have been changed to something longer and then changed a third time, but that was the original title. RonPaulMall did not change it because you have only one hour to change a thread title, and I was here for one hour after he posted it. It did not change in that one hour.

[r3volution 3.0]

Oh, OK, thanks for the clarification.

My pleasure...

[Swordsmyth]

Best I can tell, option #2 (if with hesitation, because you know it's wrong)
It sounded to me like he didn't want to let them seize the position of opposing the maniac left as theirs so that all "sane" people could be herded into one camp of madmen or the other.

[r3volution 3.0]

I know exactly who changed the title. The title was neutral, describing an event. It was not the value judgment you placed on it.

LOL

[r3volution 3.0]

It sounded to me like he didn't want to let them seize the position of opposing the maniac left as theirs so that all "sane" people could be herded into one camp of madmen or the other.

But of course that was exactly the purpose of this event, and it succeeded.

To wit: this thread.

Reds and browns are recruiting tonight; the only loser is liberalism (or "sanity").

[timosman]

I remember "newsletter-gate" just fine myself.

Here's the difference AF; no one at that time was celebrating Ron's (alleged) connections to white nationalists.

No one at that time thought it helpful to the liberty movement to associated with NAZIs.

Now, evidently, some people do. Do you?

http://www.evelynlim.com/photos/certifieddramaqueen.jpg

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

LOL


val·ue judg·ment
ˈvalyo͞o ˌjəjmənt/
noun
noun: value judgement; plural noun: value judgements; noun: value judgment; plural noun: value judgments

an assessment of something as good or bad in terms of one's standards or priorities.




1. Thread title describing an event: Unite the Right Rally

2. Thread title attaching value judgment to an event: The libertarian movement has no affinity with the Unite the Right Rally.

[r3volution 3.0]

http://www.evelynlim.com/photos/certifieddramaqueen.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/EImi6wG.jpg

[r3volution 3.0]

val·ue judg·ment
ˈvalyo͞o ˌjəjmənt/
noun
noun: value judgement; plural noun: value judgements; noun: value judgment; plural noun: value judgments

an assessment of something as good or bad in terms of one's standards or priorities.




1. Thread title describing an event: Unite the Right Rally

2. Thread title attaching value judgment to an event: The libertarian movement has no affinity with the Unite the Right Rally.

Thanks

Did you vote?

[timosman]

Did you vote?


None of your business. Did somebody die and you were put in charge?

[r3volution 3.0]

None of your business. Did somebody die and you were put in charge?

^^triggered

[timosman]

^^triggered

You have 14 posts in this thread. That's 41% percent of all posts. More than what CPUd got banned for.

[r3volution 3.0]

You have 14 posts in this thread. That's 41% percent of all posts. More than what CPUd got banned for.

I too own a calculator.

[Raginfridus]

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fthecia.com.au%2Freviews %2Fo%2Fimages%2Foutlaw-josey-wales-3.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fthecia.com.au%2Freviews%2Fo %2Foutlaw-josey-wales%2F&docid=zw5L4Xbl95UEnM&tbnid=vhCpDvbSWI64QM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwjhoaHl2tXVAhXlwFQKHRzpC9gQMwimASgUMBQ. .i&w=529&h=222&hl=en&client=safari&bih=441&biw=320&q=josey%20wales%20gif&ved=0ahUKEwjhoaHl2tXVAhXlwFQKHRzpC9gQMwimASgUMBQ&iact=mrc&uact=8

[timosman]

http://static.thecia.com.au/reviews/o/outlaw-josey-wales-3.jpg

[r3volution 3.0]

I'm amused that no one has voted in the negative.

Perhaps I shouldn't have made it a public poll...

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Thanks

Did you vote?


I'm amused that no one has voted in the negative.

Perhaps I shouldn't have made it a public poll...


Perhaps you shouldn't have made it a CNN poll.

[Jamesiv1]

Anybody who is awake knows that "Libertarian" is just a code word for "Alt-Right, Neo-nazi, White Supremacist".

[r3volution 3.0]

Perhaps you shouldn't have made it a CNN poll.

O.. What's a CNN poll?

...one whose results are displeasing?


Anybody who is awake knows that "Libertarian" is just a code word for "Alt-Right, Neo-nazi, White Supremacist".

Certain people would like that to be true.

Go to a neo-NAZI site; they're quite open about their intentions toward us.

[timosman]

I'm amused that no one has voted in the negative.

Perhaps I shouldn't have made it a public poll...

Strange concerns for a troll.:cool:

[acptulsa]

Anybody who is awake knows that "Libertarian" is just a code word for "Alt-Right, Neo-nazi, White Supremacist".

I think you meant the opposite if 'awake'. Did autocorrect change 'woke' after you typed it?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

O.. What's a CNN poll?






The polls that showed Hillary Clinton was really ahead and would likely be the next president.

[r3volution 3.0]

Strange concerns for a troll.:cool:

:cool:
:cool:
:cool:
:cool:
:cool:
:cool:
:cool:
:cool:

..did I miss anything?

O , wait...

:cool:

[r3volution 3.0]

The polls that showed Hillary Clinton was really ahead and would likely be the next president.

The polls, nationally, were off by 1.1% in the last circle jerk.

Anyway, what does this have to do with this poll?

[timosman]

O , wait...

:cool:

Do you ever lose?

[Jamesiv1]

I think you meant the opposite if 'awake'. Did autocorrect change 'woke' after you typed it?
it was actually a lame attempt at trolling the OP for creating a dumb thread.

[r3volution 3.0]

Do you ever lose?

Only when I get tired of winning

[timosman]

Does anybody feel stupid for voting in this thread?:rolleyes:

[r3volution 3.0]

Does anybody feel stupid for voting in this thread?:rolleyes:

That depends on how one votes.

Thus far, non-dummies have voted correctly.

The remainder, well, haven't voted at all...

....which means, I suppose, that they aren't as dumb as they look.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

The polls, nationally, were off by 1.1% in the last circle jerk.

Anyway, what does this have to do with this poll?


Your poll is improperly done at every characteristic. You did not even bother to correct your typo. Your poll is crummy even for an internet forum poll, and that's pretty bad.

I have to guess you know all this and are joking.

[timosman]

I have to guess you know all this and are joking.

http://www.shopatnorway.com/images/840241_LA_troll_norway.jpg

[Origanalist]

Does anybody feel stupid for voting in this thread?:rolleyes:

No, I don't.

[r3volution 3.0]

Your poll is improperly done at every characteristic

Oh, at every characteristic, well...


You did not even bother to correct your typo.

Yea, ordinarily I'm pedantic about those things, but polls can't be edited once posted, so...

Were you unable to understand the poll?


Your poll is crummy even for an internet forum poll, and that's pretty bad.

I have to guess you know all this and are joking.

Making crisp the distinction between libertarianism and national socialism isn't a joke, no.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Oh, at every characteristic, well...

Would you like an itemized list, or are you still pulling my leg?





Making crisp the distinction between libertarianism and national socialism isn't a joke, no.


Well, at least you posted something serious. I guess.

[r3volution 3.0]

Would you like an itemized list, or are you still pulling my leg?

No no, I was just mocking your grammar.


Well, at least you post something serious. I guess.

Good thing your pal timosman drew the thread offcourse (he should get a bonus).

Otherwise, we might've gotten to discuss the source of the alt-right/neo-NAZI sympathies of some here.

[timosman]

No no, I was just mocking your grammar.



Good thing your pal timosman drew the thread offcourse (he should get a bonus).

Otherwise, we might've gotten to discuss the source of the alt-right/neo-NAZI sympathies of some here.

Your strategy was pretty obvious from the beginning. You need to be more subtle next time. Feel sorry for the people who still think you are not a troll.:cool:

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

No no, I was just mocking your grammar.

That figures, especially since my grammar is correct.





Otherwise, we might've gotten to discuss the source of the alt-right/neo-NAZI sympathies of some here.


I'd say it has something to do with your poorly designed poll. I count no less than a half dozen fundamental design flaws.

Blame Tim all you want, but it is what it is.*





* Get out your books and study that grammar.

[timosman]

No, I don't.

Thank you for not voting. Still 4 members got trolled into it.:rolleyes:

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Okay, I guess I am getting trolled, but here's why I think the poll is poorly designed:



A poll question has to be a question. If it does not have a question mark and is a statement, then it should be clear for accuracy. Example: "Indicate your preference for the following statements." This would likely be followed by statements with Likert scale selections.

Your question and your first option are practically identical.

Your first option adds a value judgment to your poll question (you substituted "alt-Right/neo-Nazis" with "anti-liberty."

The second word in your first option is "we." The second word in your 2nd option is "I." You can't assume "we libertarians" from a single respondent because that respondent is answering for himself. The pronouns also need to be consistent.

You put the word "nothing" in all caps. That's a glaring bias.

You used the loaded word "subversion."



There's probably a few more, but my fingers are getting tired from typing.







This poll will close on 09-02-2017 at 07:21 PM Be advised that this is a public poll: other users can see the choice(s) you selected.



Libertarians Have NOTHING To Do With The Alt-Right/neo-NAZIs
• Yes, we libertarians have NOTHING to do with these anti-liberty people
• No, I approve of the alt-right/neo-NAZIs atrempt at subversion of the liberty movement

[Raginfridus]

http://static.thecia.com.au/reviews/o/outlaw-josey-wales-3.jpg
You too?

[P3ter_Griffin]

I think we have better solutions for the people seeking affordable accessible healthcare, prosperity, happiness, and individual liberties then we do for the culture warriors. Personally I feel I share a greater commonality with republicans and democrats than the alt-right ideology as I have been exposed to it.

[r3volution 3.0]

I think we have better solutions for the people seeking affordable accessible healthcare, prosperity, happiness, and individual liberties then we do for the culture warriors. Personally I feel I share a greater commonality with republicans and democrats than the alt-right ideology as I have been exposed to it.

Whenever I hear culture war nonsense from either side...

...it just makes my blood curdle.

So fucking dumb.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politique

[timosman]

Whenever I hear culture war nonsense from either side...

...it just makes my blood curdle.

So fucking dumb.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politique

You should retire for the evening. Enough of posting nonsense for today.

[Athan]

Nobody saying that, that I can see or celebrating as far as I can see.

I've already made my position clear: shame on us for sitting around with our thumbs up our asses while an agent of the leftist mob that is gearing itself up for real violence, attempted to assassinate the single most prominent political figure of the "liberty movement".

If the "alt right" has gotten out ahead of us on standing up and finally pushing back against the hate filled, genocidal left, then that's our fault.

Slam dunk.

[osan]

Oh no... sky's falling <panic> <panic> <panic>... quickly!, everyone run around like headless chickens whilst wetting yourselves, for the end is nigh.

Oy.

[osan]

Nobody saying that, that I can see or celebrating as far as I can see.

I've already made my position clear: shame on us for sitting around with our thumbs up our asses while an agent of the leftist mob that is gearing itself up for real violence, attempted to assassinate the single most prominent political figure of the "liberty movement".

If the "alt right" has gotten out ahead of us on standing up and finally pushing back against the hate filled, genocidal left, then that's our fault.

You, myself, and others have been beating that dead horse for years, to no apparent avail.

No sense trying to help people who want it not.

[osan]

http://www.whiteprivilegeconference.com/

Attendance fee schedule:

Single day pass, if white: $10,000.00*
Weekend pass, if white: $50,000.00*
Full week pass, if white: $1,000,000.00*

If non-white: free.

*Does not include mandatory-to-purchase-and-wear "So Sorry" t-shirts, an additional $5,000.00
White people are obliged to self-hate, admit their genetic guilt, submit to ridicule and punishments, as well as agree to sign all of their properties over to White Privilege Conference Committee, who will redistribute the racially ill-gotten booty to deserving non-white people.

There will be a drawing every day for a sacrificial white child. Winner must be under age three and will be throat-slit before the congregation just prior to dinner. All white attendees are required to applaud and call for yet another white child for butcher.

You're welcome.