Republican Healthcare Bill Dead After Two More Senators Defect

[Swordsmyth]

With two Republican senators - Susan Collins of Maine, a moderate, and Rand Paul of Kentucky, a conservative - having said previously they would not support the Senator version of the GOP healthcare bill and would not be swayed - even on a procedural motion to take up the bill for debate - it meant Republicans in the Senate could afford to lose just one more vote (assuming John McCain does return in the near future). Moments ago they lost two, when first Sen. Mike Lee (Utah) and then Sen. Jerry Moran (Kansas) announced on Monday night they will not support taking up the current bill repealing and replacing ObamaCare, thereby blocking the legislation.

More at: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-17/republican-healthcare-bill-dead-after-two-more-senators-defect

[CaptUSA]

Looks like Rands media tour paid its dividends. Now, here come the knives.

[Keith and stuff]

Thank you Rand Paul. Now let's repeal as much of it as possible.

[TheCount]

Something something liberty caucus.

[Swordsmyth]

Something something liberty caucus.
So you wanted this piece of garbage to pass?

[Brian4Liberty]

https://www.lee.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2017/7/sen-mike-lee-to-vote-no-on-senate-health-bill


Sen. Mike Lee to Vote No on Senate Health Bill -Jul 17 2017

WASHINGTON – Sen. Mike Lee (R-UT) issued the following statement Monday regarding the Better Care Reconciliation Act:

“After conferring with trusted experts regarding the latest version of the Consumer Freedom Amendment, I have decided I cannot support the current version of the Better Care Reconciliation Act,” Sen. Lee said. “In addition to not repealing all of the Obamacare taxes, it doesn’t go far enough in lowering premiums for middle class families; nor does it create enough free space from the most costly Obamacare regulations.”

[phill4paul]

I'd imagine this is what gave McCain the migraine.

[r3volution 3.0]

Bet Cruz is kicking himself now (oops).

[TheCount]

So you wanted this piece of garbage to pass?

I'm referring to the reaction of your deity to the last time a piece of garbage didn't pass.

847435163143454723

[Swordsmyth]

I'm referring to the reaction of your deity to the last time a piece of garbage didn't pass.

847435163143454723
Just because I don't suffer from Trump derangement syndrome doesn't mean I support him, I criticize him when he is wrong, and defend him when he is right, and I do plenty of both.

[TheCount]

Just because I don't suffer from Trump derangement syndrome doesn't mean I support him, I criticize him when he is wrong, and defend him when he is right, and I do plenty of both.From my point of view, you seem to be going the full dannno by directly blaming individual members of the administration while generally absolving Trump himself of responsibility.

[Swordsmyth]

From my point of view, you seem to be going the full dannno by directly blaming individual members of the administration while generally absolving Trump himself of responsibility.
When have I done that?
And even if I did when I thought it was appropriate, I have criticized Dump directly many times anyway.

[TheCount]

When have I done that?

A search of the term "dump" weeds out all of your non-Trump posts rather quickly:


We have seen many examples of this, Dump is not in control of his staff. He needs to clean house, but so far I don't see him trying to.


"White House economic advisor Gary Cohn asserted"


When Dump does something we can talk. Gossip from some flunky does not impress me.


Cohn must be dumped.


She wants Pence, she was a NeverTrump-er after all.
He needs to fire her NOW.


Dump needs to dump Pence and offer the VP to Rand or Lee in 2020



And even if I did when I thought it was appropriate, I have criticized Dump directly many times anyway.

Could you link a criticism of him from among your most recent 500 posts?

[angelatc]

Could you link a criticism of him from among your most recent 500 posts?


And there we go.....red herring to take the thread off topic.

[Swordsmyth]

A search of the term "dump" weeds out all of your non-Trump posts rather quickly:














Could you link a criticism of him from among your most recent 500 posts?


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Swordsmyth http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=6474124#post6474124)
We have seen many examples of this, Dump is not in control of his staff. He needs to clean house, but so far I don't see him trying to.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Could you link a criticism of him from among your most recent 500 posts?


And there we go.....red herring to take the thread off topic.




You got it, Angela. This is exactly what TheCount does. Derails thread after thread by going after certain posters. He even got in a bonus by including Dannno in a thread where Dannno is nowhere to be found.

These guys never miss a chance to make a thread about people's support of "Dump." I suggest TheCount's posts be put in a split thread and moved to The Vent.

Anyway, please return to the topic at hand and ignore his attempts to derail.


Angela +rep
TheCount - rep

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

"This closed-door process has yielded the [bill], which fails to repeal the Affordable Care Act or address healthcare’s rising costs. For the same reasons I could not support the previous version of this bill, I cannot support this one," Moran said.


These costs are not rising, at least in the way people think about it. The costs are from hospitals being turned into social welfare agencies.

Visit any hospital on the weekend, right after a holiday, or during a full moon. Check the waiting room and talk with hospital workers you know. The person in the waiting room is not poor little Jimmy in need of bone marrow. The person is somebody who ate too much Thanksgiving dinner, and has a clogged rectum like your kitchen pipe. The patient is some dude who needs a cot for the night coz his old lady kicked him out the house. It's the guy who ran out of dope and red bull and wants a shot. It's a guy whose refrigerator is empty on the 31st because he gets his welfare check on the third.

Go ahead and look into it because you'll never hear the media tell these stories.

[Cleaner44]

I'm referring to the reaction of your deity to the last time a piece of garbage didn't pass.

847435163143454723


Just because I don't suffer from Trump derangement syndrome doesn't mean I support him, I criticize him when he is wrong, and defend him when he is right, and I do plenty of both.

This is one of the few times I have been able to applaud Trump. Him coming out and finally asking for a clean repeal is welcome news. This will put pressure on the non-conservative Republicans.

[specsaregood]

These costs are not rising, at least in the way people think about it. The costs are from hospitals being turned into social welfare agencies.

Visit any hospital on the weekend, right after a holiday, or during a full moon. Check the waiting room and talk with hospital workers you know. The person in the waiting room is not poor little Jimmy in need of bone marrow. The person is somebody who ate too much Thanksgiving dinner, and has a clogged rectum like your kitchen pipe. The patient is some dude who needs a cot for the night coz his old lady kicked him out the house. It's the guy who ran out of dope and red bull and wants a shot. It's a guy whose refrigerator is empty on the 31st because he gets his welfare check on the third.

Go ahead and look into it because you'll never hear the media tell these stories.

It is not often that I agree with or even pay attention to NCL's posts, but that ^ is absolutely true. I hear it from DW all the time. And better yet, these hospital welfare agencies have been turned into 5 star resorts where staff such as nurses are required to take customer service training from Marriot or Hyatt, etc. And part of Obamacare actually has where the payouts are based partly on customer satisfaction -- rather than the right treatment. So if you don't give into their every little whim, you wont get paid as much.

[asurfaholic]

The stories my wife tells are similar- as a RN her heart is in the patient care aspect of her job but she routinely just deals with addicts who know they have the hospital by the balls. They treat my wife accordingly. F-king bastards

It's a friggin disgrace.

[euphemia]

What we have here is the people being heard. Bob Corker in Tennessee darn sure better be paying attention. He and Alexander won't even take calls from constituents about any kind of bill regulating health care and health insurance. I have emailed, can't get any kind of substantive answer at all.

[r3volution 3.0]

Trump was just speaking live and said he's "very disappointed" in the Senators who opposed the garbage bill.

He then said, "we'll just let Obamacare fail and the Dems will come to us" (paraphrasing).

...so, he's not going to support a clean repeal effort?

[CaptUSA]

Trump was just speaking live and said he's "very disappointed" in the Senators who opposed the garbage bill.

He then said, "we'll just let Obamacare fail and the Dems will come to us" (paraphrasing).

...so, he's not going to support a clean repeal effort?

It's amazing to me how much power a junior senator from a medium-sized "southern" state can wield. Rand is a lesson in principles. While he's not reforming much of Washington, he is demonstrating to people the power of principles.

Trump can be disappointed all he wants... I'm proud of him!

[specsaregood]

The stories my wife tells are similar- as a RN her heart is in the patient care aspect of her job but she routinely just deals with addicts who know they have the hospital by the balls. They treat my wife accordingly. F-king bastards

It's a friggin disgrace.

Hell, they take the bus from the hood past 3 or 4 closer hospitals in order to get to the nice hospital DW is at with the private rooms and 24 hour room service. All of it paid for by taxpayers.

[dannno]

From my point of view, you seem to be going the full dannno by directly blaming individual members of the administration while generally absolving Trump himself of responsibility.

Uh, no we are just living in the real world. Trump talks a big game, for various reasons, but he isn't going to try and primary any of the freedom caucus members. It was all for show in order to get something else he wanted. What that was, I dunno, I'm not Trump, but it probably worked.

Hillary on the other hand is a serial killer, if she doesn't like what you are doing you very well may end up dead. Trump mostly just tweets mean things about you if he doesn't like you.

[r3volution 3.0]

Uh, no we are just living in the real world. Trump talks a big game, for various reasons, but he isn't going to try and primary any of the freedom caucus members. It was all for show in order to get something else he wanted. What that was, I dunno, I'm not Trump, but it probably worked.

LOL

It was just exactly what it appeared to be - Trump lashing out impulsively at people who objected to his socialistic healthcare policies.

[dannno]

LOL

It was just exactly what it appeared to be - Trump lashing out impulsively at people who objected to his socialistic healthcare policies.

Rand Paul: Trump 'open to making bill better'

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?512176-Rand-Paul-Trump-open-to-making-bill-better

[r3volution 3.0]

Everyone's always "open to making [insert anything] better."

Trump's just trying to get credit for "repealing Obamacare," doesn't matter if the final bill actually does that or improves the situation. Meanwhile, Rand pretends that Trump's on his side, because it gets him further in his quest for an actual repeal than openly attacking the single-payer-in-chief.

[dannno]

Everyone's always "open to making [insert anything] better."



This is Rand's definition of "better", not Trump.

[r3volution 3.0]

This is Rand's definition of "better", not Trump.

Reread my last post, as many times as needed.

[dannno]

Meanwhile, Rand pretends that Trump's on his side, because it gets him further in his quest for an actual repeal than openly attacking the single-payer-in-chief.

That's a much better strategy than repeating MSM talking points.

[dannno]

Reread my last post, as many times as needed.

Rand's definition of "better" would be more free market. So Rand is saying "Trump is willing to make the bill more free market". That was right after you said Trump wants socialist healthcare.

[r3volution 3.0]

Rand's definition of "better" would be more free market. So Rand is saying "Trump is willing to make the bill more free market". That was right after you said Trump wants socialist healthcare.

It's funny how you so easily pump out elaborate, Machiavellian justifications for Trump's actions, but can't see through paper thin political rhetoric.

"Better" means whatever the audience wants it to mean; that's the beauty of such vague terms.

Trump obviously doesn't agree with Rand on healthcare, based on his support for these recent bills in the House and Senate, his comment ten minutes ago about being "very disappointed" in the people who pledged to vote against the Senate bill (i.e. Rand, among others), and then of course all his pro single payer comments in the primaries and in his life before politics. When Rand says Trump wants to make it better, he isn't actually disputing the above - he's just pretending that Trump's onboard because -again - that helps his own, real reform agenda.

[dannno]

It's funny how you so easily pump out elaborate, Machiavellian justifications for Trump's actions, but can't see through paper thin political rhetoric.

"Better" means whatever the audience wants it to mean; that's the beauty of such vague terms.

Trump obviously doesn't agree with Rand on healthcare, based on his support for these recent bills in the House and Senate, his comment ten minutes ago about being "very disappointed" in the people who pledged to vote against the Senate bill (i.e. Rand, among others), and then of course all his pro single payer comments in the primaries and in his life before politics. When Rand says Trump wants to make it better, he isn't actually disputing the above - he's just pretending that Trump's onboard because -again - that helps his own, real reform agenda.

Do you believe Trump would veto a free market reformed health care bill that got to his desk?

[Zippyjuan]

Trump never helped push any of the healthcare reform bills while promising "awesome" healthcare plan nobody has seen (he repeated that promise today). He also isn't pushing the new old idea of repeal without replace (which also looks dead). Now he just says he should just let Obamacare fail on its own.


That was then:
https://www.healthinsurance.org/assets/2016/11/trump-repeal-obamacare-1560x816.jpg

This is now:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/b4/68/7a/b4687a920507a2d6f1f49e025c5935a2.jpg

Even today he seemed confused- calling first for repeal again, and then forgetting repeal and stick with Obamacare.

http://www.cnsnews.com/s3/files/styles/content_100p/s3/trump-tweets-jul18_0.jpg?itok=pxHs2OeF

[FSP-Rebel]

887136558805110786
887138215156748290

[Madison320]

Could you link a criticism of him from among your most recent 500 posts?

LOL! Pot calls kettle black!

Could you link a criticism of a democrat in your last 2,000 posts?

[Swordsmyth]

LOL! Pot calls kettle black!

Could you link a criticism of a democrat in your last 2,000 posts?
Bad analogy, it allows that I am a black kettle.

[Madison320]

Bad analogy, it allows that I am a black kettle.

Well ... maybe not black but dark grey?

[TheCount]

Do you believe Trump would veto a free market reformed health care bill that got to his desk?

I'm not understanding this phrase 'free market reformed health bill.' Does that mean a repeal, or free-er than Obamacare, or what?

[r3volution 3.0]

Do you believe Trump would veto a free market reformed health care bill that got to his desk?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zFRjExsfTk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPJfKdp3bDs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwvikFS1vPA

[dannno]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zFRjExsfTk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPJfKdp3bDs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwvikFS1vPA


So what is your answer to the question?

[r3volution 3.0]

So what is your answer to the question?

I thought the A/V materials more or less expressed my view.

Answer = "yes"

[dannno]

I thought the A/V materials more or less expressed my view.

Answer = "yes"

Ok, because when I made a claim that zippy believed something based on a video he posted in a thread, I got a bunch of flack from the Trump derangement crew because he didn't say the words himself.

[r3volution 3.0]

Ok, because when I made a claim that zippy believed something based on a video he posted in a thread, I got a bunch of flack from the Trump derangement crew because he didn't say the words himself.

In other words, truer words, someone posted a video of Dear Leader, the...reality of which displeases you and runs contrary to the narrative.

...and so you called everybody who acknowledged this reality a Soros troll.

[TheCount]

In other words, truer words, someone posted a video of Dear Leader, the...reality of which displeases you and runs contrary to the narrative.

...and so you called everybody who acknowledged this reality a Soros troll.

Only an agent of Soros would use videos of Dear Leader which have long since been dropped in the memory hole. It's a thoughtcrime to watch them or even acknowledge their existence.

[r3volution 3.0]

Only an agent of Soros would use videos of Dear Leader which have long since been dropped in the memory hole. It's a thoughtcrime to watch them or even acknowledge their existence.

How many times should I repudiate them in order to get some free victory gin?

[TheCount]

How many times should I repudiate them in order to get some free victory gin?It's not a matter of repudiation; you must achieve a perfect state of doublethink wherein politically inconvenient things vanish from your mind as if they never existed.


Try claiming that Trump never said a thing because tweets aren't even words. If it makes you feel filthy, then you aren't quite there yet.

[anaconda]

So what's the endgame? If Obamacare continues to be the law of the land and is an epic disaster, does this head the U.S. toward single payer or towards free market healthcare? If I recall, Obamacare passed with a Democratic House, filibuster-proof Senate, and the Presidency. Seems like a tough one to walk back.

[euphemia]

Senator Corker has come on board the bill for full repeal and delay.

[Wooden Indian]

So what's the endgame? If Obamacare continues to be the law of the land and is an epic disaster, does this head the U.S. toward single payer or towards free market healthcare? If I recall, Obamacare passed with a Democratic House, filibuster-proof Senate, and the Presidency. Seems like a tough one to walk back.

Single payer, baby. You can bank on that.

[Ender]

Single payer, baby. You can bank on that.

Yep.

Free market would allow real affordable healthcare, get rid of stupid insurance and overpriced non-working addictive drugs. Can't have that, now can we? :rolleyes:

[TheCount]

So what's the endgame? If Obamacare continues to be the law of the land and is an epic disaster, does this head the U.S. toward single payer or towards free market healthcare? If I recall, Obamacare passed with a Democratic House, filibuster-proof Senate, and the Presidency. Seems like a tough one to walk back.

Right now Republicans seem to be hoping that either they will be able to pass a full repeal with a long delay before it occurs, or else that Obamacare will collapse entirely. In either case they think that some Democrats will join them on an Obamacare-lite bill.

(This is why I'm skeptical of many of the "full repeal" folks; if you listen to all of what they say, they don't actually want to repeal, just use the threat of repeal to force Democrats to cooperate.)

As for Democrats, they seem to want to strengthen Obamacare. That would require an unrealistic mid-term win for them.

[Noob]

Demand Senate Republicans Repeal ObamaCare!

https://fwact.org/1ECPcNt

[r3volution 3.0]

So what's the endgame? If Obamacare continues to be the law of the land and is an epic disaster, does this head the U.S. toward single payer or towards free market healthcare?

Whether some form of Trumpcare passes or not, we're almost certainly headed to single payer. Passing Trumpcare might actually hasten this, as the Dems would have an easier time selling the current situation as a GOP problem in need of fixing. Best case scenario might be Trumpcare failing to pass, then a major libertarianish backlash by 2020 against the Trumpian wing of the party - tarnished by neither Obamacare nor Trumpcare.

[anaconda]

Whether some form of Trumpcare passes or not, we're almost certainly headed to single payer. Passing Trumpcare might actually hasten this, as the Dems would have an easier time selling the current situation as a GOP problem in need of fixing. Best case scenario might be Trumpcare failing to pass, then a major libertarianish backlash by 2020 against the Trumpian wing of the party - tarnished by neither Obamacare nor Trumpcare.

I like the way you think.

[AuH20]

Given the dire state of the federal balance sheet, we will never see single payer. Funny how we have been saved by past obligations.