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CMoore
12-10-2007, 11:13 PM
I would like to hear some discussion of ways to avoid Police harrassment during sign waving. This evening, some of us were standing on a freeway overpass holding up a large 4 x 8 sign. An officer stopped and asked us not to do it and cited safety factors. He said the sign would be a distraction to people driving and might cause a wreck. He was polite and even said he supported Ron Paul. It was beginning to be sunset, and our only options were to either leave or be arrested, so we left. (We had been getting lots of honks and waves, BTW) Anyway has anyone else encountered these problems? How do you avoid them. I certainly do not want to do anything that will cause a wreck, but I really question whether or not this is really a safety issue since we have the DOT lighted signs that hang over the freeway and alert drivers to things and bill boards also are found along the freeways. In addition there is a small sign on every overpass telling you what road that overpass is.

DealzOnWheelz
12-10-2007, 11:26 PM
Try working with the local police on it and coming to an agreement where you can wave signs and get alot of attention yet still be safe and not a big distraction and remember...Bring your pocket constitution.

Just tell them you are holding a protest. You have the right to peacefully assemble

krott5333
12-10-2007, 11:26 PM
I would like to hear some discussion of ways to avoid Police harrassment during sign waving. This evening, some of us were standing on a freeway overpass holding up a large 4 x 8 sign. An officer stopped and asked us not to do it and cited safety factors. He said the sign would be a distraction to people driving and might cause a wreck. He was polite and even said he supported Ron Paul. It was beginning to be sunset, and our only options were to either leave or be arrested, so we left. (We had been getting lots of honks and waves, BTW) Anyway has anyone else encountered these problems? How do you avoid them. I certainly do not want to do anything that will cause a wreck, but I really question whether or not this is really a safety issue since we have the DOT lighted signs that hang over the freeway and alert drivers to things and bill boards also are found along the freeways. In addition there is a small sign on every overpass telling you what road that overpass is.

did the police arrest the owner of the local billboard company for putting up all those huge wreck-causing signs?

Sematary
12-10-2007, 11:51 PM
I would like to hear some discussion of ways to avoid Police harrassment during sign waving. This evening, some of us were standing on a freeway overpass holding up a large 4 x 8 sign. An officer stopped and asked us not to do it and cited safety factors. He said the sign would be a distraction to people driving and might cause a wreck. He was polite and even said he supported Ron Paul. It was beginning to be sunset, and our only options were to either leave or be arrested, so we left. (We had been getting lots of honks and waves, BTW) Anyway has anyone else encountered these problems? How do you avoid them. I certainly do not want to do anything that will cause a wreck, but I really question whether or not this is really a safety issue since we have the DOT lighted signs that hang over the freeway and alert drivers to things and bill boards also are found along the freeways. In addition there is a small sign on every overpass telling you what road that overpass is.

Of course it's a safety issue. If you are distracting people from paying attention to driving then it is a safety issue. Personally, I think you should canvass - it's more effective.

jonahtrainer
12-10-2007, 11:59 PM
I would like to hear some discussion of ways to avoid Police harrassment during sign waving. This evening, some of us were standing on a freeway overpass holding up a large 4 x 8 sign. An officer stopped and asked us not to do it and cited safety factors. He said the sign would be a distraction to people driving and might cause a wreck. He was polite and even said he supported Ron Paul. It was beginning to be sunset, and our only options were to either leave or be arrested, so we left. (We had been getting lots of honks and waves, BTW) Anyway has anyone else encountered these problems? How do you avoid them. I certainly do not want to do anything that will cause a wreck, but I really question whether or not this is really a safety issue since we have the DOT lighted signs that hang over the freeway and alert drivers to things and bill boards also are found along the freeways. In addition there is a small sign on every overpass telling you what road that overpass is.


You may want to watch the video Busted in my signature.

I would have calmly and politely asked "Can you please cite the particular ordinance that prohibits this Constitutionally protected political speech?"

If he asks why you can always respond "You have cited safety concerns but I do not see any particular difference between my sign waiving and billboards or DOT traffic signs. I intend to file a lawsuit and challenge the constitutionality of the ordinance because it probably does not meet the strict scrutiny test."

This type of an answer should put him on notice that he is messing with the wrong type of person. If he asks if you are a lawyer just smile and say "Do you need my consent to answer the question?"

Remember to respect his authority as you challenge it. If he provides no citation of an ordinance then ask him "Do you need my consent to stop waiving this sign?" This will require him to squarely address the issue of waiving your right to free speech.

If he answers "No." Then I would stop waiving, get his badge number, dismiss myself (Officer, am I free to leave?), peacefully leave and file a lawsuit against him.

If he answers "Yes." Then calmly respond "I do not consent to any search or seizure. I do not consent to stopping this constitutionally protected free speech." Then continue your sign waiving activities. If he so much as touches you then you can file for battery.

Also, you may want to have a video camera present to video tape any type of interaction. The more witnesses the better. Always remain calm and respectful. Good luck Flexing Your Rights!

austin356
12-11-2007, 12:02 AM
CMoore, your the attorney here!! Tell us you are gonna stand up to them!

jonahtrainer
12-11-2007, 12:05 AM
CMoore, your the attorney here!! Tell us you are gonna stand up to them!

Most (~90%) criminal defense attorneys, let alone your average attorney, don't know how to properly handle police encounters. Watch BUSTED.

CMoore
12-11-2007, 12:06 AM
CMoore, your the attorney here!! Tell us you are gonna stand up to them!

Yeah, I know. But the only way to "stand up to them" is to get arrested, bond out, and wait for the court date. By that time, the primary will be over.

PennCustom4RP
12-11-2007, 01:22 AM
1. you were on an overpass, a distraction for those below, and overpasses generally have no shoulder, so unsafe for you, I would try somewhere else.
2. you were on the freeway, most freeways do not allow for pedestrian traffic, unless in case of emergency, like out of gas etc. Why do you think you see hitch hikers on the on ramp to the freeway, not on it.

TomAlciere
12-11-2007, 01:32 AM
Try working with the local police on it and coming to an agreement where you can wave signs and get alot of attention yet still be safe and not a big distraction and remember...Bring your pocket constitution.

Just tell them you are holding a protest. You have the right to peacefully assemble

"Resistance need not be violent, but the civil disobedience that might be required involves confrontation with the state and invites possible imprisonment.

"Peaceful non-violent revolutions against tyranny have been every bit as successful as those involving military confrontation. Mahatma Gandhi and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. achieved great political successes by practicing non-violence, yet they themselves suffered physically at the hands of the state.

"But whether the resistance against government tyrants is non-violent or physically violent, the effort to overthrow state oppression qualifies as true patriotism."

-- Ron Paul, http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2007/cr0522107.htm

hopeforamerica
12-11-2007, 10:05 AM
We've found it best just to go to a busy intersection with a stop light. That way, when the traffic is stopped and someone is a supporter, we give them a free bumper sticker! We need more cars with bumper stickers!!! Also you can hand them a slim jim if they roll the window down. You might get stopped from doing that too, but you can still sign wave and get ton of people to see you.

Rex
12-11-2007, 10:25 AM
You may want to watch the video Busted in my signature.

I would have calmly and politely asked "Can you please cite the particular ordinance that prohibits this Constitutionally protected political speech?"

If he asks why you can always respond "You have cited safety concerns but I do not see any particular difference between my sign waiving and billboards or DOT traffic signs. I intend to file a lawsuit and challenge the constitutionality of the ordinance because it probably does not meet the strict scrutiny test."

This type of an answer should put him on notice that he is messing with the wrong type of person. If he asks if you are a lawyer just smile and say "Do you need my consent to answer the question?"

Remember to respect his authority as you challenge it. If he provides no citation of an ordinance then ask him "Do you need my consent to stop waiving this sign?" This will require him to squarely address the issue of waiving your right to free speech.

If he answers "No." Then I would stop waiving, get his badge number, dismiss myself (Officer, am I free to leave?), peacefully leave and file a lawsuit against him.

If he answers "Yes." Then calmly respond "I do not consent to any search or seizure. I do not consent to stopping this constitutionally protected free speech." Then continue your sign waiving activities. If he so much as touches you then you can file for battery.

Also, you may want to have a video camera present to video tape any type of interaction. The more witnesses the better. Always remain calm and respectful. Good luck Flexing Your Rights!

Now that is an answer!

Bobby Johnson
12-11-2007, 10:30 AM
I would like to hear some discussion of ways to avoid Police harrassment during sign waving. This evening, some of us were standing on a freeway overpass holding up a large 4 x 8 sign. An officer stopped and asked us not to do it and cited safety factors. He said the sign would be a distraction to people driving and might cause a wreck. He was polite and even said he supported Ron Paul. It was beginning to be sunset, and our only options were to either leave or be arrested, so we left. (We had been getting lots of honks and waves, BTW) Anyway has anyone else encountered these problems? How do you avoid them. I certainly do not want to do anything that will cause a wreck, but I really question whether or not this is really a safety issue since we have the DOT lighted signs that hang over the freeway and alert drivers to things and bill boards also are found along the freeways. In addition there is a small sign on every overpass telling you what road that overpass is.

Have you thought about going to your local gunshow? I have gone to two gunshows as a Ron Pual supporter and have gotten a very good response from the attendees. I would really have liked to have had a group of people outside waving signs for maximum impact. Plus the gunshows were located on busy streets. It would have been like a 1-2 punch in exposing the gunshow attendees to Ron Paul. Plus you would have been waving your signs at all the traffic going by.

Here are some helpful links in finding a gunshow in your area: www.gunfax.com, www.gunshows-usa.com.

Do a google search for "gun shows." Sometimes you may be able to get a free table depending on the promotor. I came up with too much information to list here when I ran a quick search.

freedominnumbers
12-11-2007, 10:33 AM
We've found it best just to go to a busy intersection with a stop light. That way, when the traffic is stopped and someone is a supporter, we give them a free bumper sticker! We need more cars with bumper stickers!!! Also you can hand them a slim jim if they roll the window down. You might get stopped from doing that too, but you can still sign wave and get ton of people to see you.

I have found that this activity in CT is regulated at the local level through ordinances and is quite legal most places so long as any material is willingly accepted and traffic is not blocked.

John E
12-11-2007, 10:44 AM
You can argue with the cops but it will build resentment with them and their fellow officers... you stand the risk of loosing their support and having them crack down on the en devours of other RP supports. And for what real purpose? Invest your energy where it will count.

hopeforamerica's suggestion is far better in any case and you will hassled less for it.

ronpaulitician
12-11-2007, 10:52 AM
One sign waver per overpass. This, in my experience, reduces the amount of traffic that builds up. When a cop shows up and asks you to leave, just do so, and move to another freeway overpass (or go home, and go again another day).

patriotcalendar
12-11-2007, 11:11 AM
This has worked well for us in Austin....

First, our sign-waving groups carry this letter with them:
http://files.meetup.com/492644/Draft_Police-Harrassment-Letter.doc

Second, our guys/gals use plastic zip-ties to strap the signs to their wrist ("safety straps") and cut slits in large signs to vent air and prevent the signs from becoming "sails" in high wind gusts.

Even better, you could develop a list of safety protocols for your group, including things like the above. Conduct a "safety briefing" before each sign wave (caution sign wavers not to jump up and down or make lots of commotion when heavy, bumper-to-bumper traffic is passing below a bridge, etc) AND.. you could even put out a press release explaining your safety procedures and the fact that you hold a safety briefing before each group-sanctioned outing.

We seem to be on decent terms with Austin PD at this point. When they come out and find that we've done our legal homework and gone above and beyond what's required, they usually walk away impressed. We make sure to let the PD know that we don't want to cause them any extra burden by doing anything unsafe.

dantheman
12-11-2007, 11:11 AM
Some of us at Appalachian State University got put in the police database as "having officially been warned" not to wave signs in the Sky-walk that's over one of the main roads that runs through our campus. The police weren't a bunch of jerks about it, but of course it still bugged me. They cited us as causing a distraction.

It puzzled me since women wearing tight clothing and jogging along side that very same street weren't seen as a distraction, whereas any guy will tell you it is. You just have to talk to the police and come to an understanding. Many of us in Boone, NC wave signs along the sidewalks at intersections during rush hour. We pay for the sidewalk, so the police can't kick us off it. It's not as distracting I guess in the police's opinion.

It's also time to get the police to remember who they serve. It's on all their cars. "To Serve and Protect". Who? Who are they protecting? The elites? It needs to say "To Serve and Protect THE AMERICAN PEOPLE".

CMoore
12-11-2007, 11:36 PM
This has worked well for us in Austin....

First, our sign-waving groups carry this letter with them:
http://files.meetup.com/492644/Draft_Police-Harrassment-Letter.doc

Second, our guys/gals use plastic zip-ties to strap the signs to their wrist ("safety straps") and cut slits in large signs to vent air and prevent the signs from becoming "sails" in high wind gusts.

Even better, you could develop a list of safety protocols for your group, including things like the above. Conduct a "safety briefing" before each sign wave (caution sign wavers not to jump up and down or make lots of commotion when heavy, bumper-to-bumper traffic is passing below a bridge, etc) AND.. you could even put out a press release explaining your safety procedures and the fact that you hold a safety briefing before each group-sanctioned outing.

We seem to be on decent terms with Austin PD at this point. When they come out and find that we've done our legal homework and gone above and beyond what's required, they usually walk away impressed. We make sure to let the PD know that we don't want to cause them any extra burden by doing anything unsafe.

Thanks for the input. This is very helpful information and a great approach.

Bradley in DC
12-11-2007, 11:56 PM
The safety aspect distracting drivers has been raised in other places as well. Best to find what works best in each locality. Someone causing an accident in the name of Ron Paul is not going to be good media coverage.

dircha
12-12-2007, 12:08 AM
Identify popular off-ramps and sign wave at the intersections with the local roads instead?

literatim
12-12-2007, 12:11 AM
You guys should do door to door canvasing. It is a whole lot more effective.