Trump’s Son Met With Russian Lawyer After Being Promised Damaging Information on Clinton

[Zippyjuan]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/09/us/politics/trump-russia-kushner-manafort.html


President Trump’s eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., was promised damaging information about Hillary Clinton before agreeing to meet with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer during the 2016 campaign, according to three advisers to the White House briefed on the meeting and two others with knowledge of it.

The meeting was also attended by the president’s campaign chairman at the time, Paul J. Manafort, as well as by the president’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner. Mr. Manafort and Mr. Kushner recently disclosed the meeting, though not its content, in confidential government documents described to The New York Times.

The Times reported the existence of the meeting on Saturday. But in subsequent interviews, the advisers and others revealed the motivation behind it.

The meeting — at Trump Tower on June 9, 2016, two weeks after Donald J. Trump clinched the Republican nomination — points to the central question in federal investigations of the Kremlin’s meddling in the presidential election: whether the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians. The accounts of the meeting represent the first public indication that at least some in the campaign were willing to accept Russian help.

While President Trump has been dogged by revelations of undisclosed meetings between his associates and the Russians, the episode at Trump Tower is the first such confirmed private meeting involving his inner circle during the campaign — as well as the first one known to have included his eldest son. It came at an inflection point in the campaign, when Donald Trump Jr., who served as an adviser and a surrogate, was ascendant and Mr. Manafort was consolidating power.

It is unclear whether the Russian lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, actually produced the promised compromising information about Mrs. Clinton. But the people interviewed by The Times about the meeting said the expectation was that she would do so.

When he was first asked about the meeting on Saturday, Donald Trump Jr. said that it was primarily about adoptions and mentioned nothing about Mrs. Clinton.

But on Sunday, presented with The Times’s findings, he offered a new account. In a statement, he said he had met with the Russian lawyer at the request of an acquaintance from the 2013 Miss Universe pageant, which his father took to Moscow. “After pleasantries were exchanged,” he said, “the woman stated that she had information that individuals connected to Russia were funding the Democratic National Committee and supporting Mrs. Clinton. Her statements were vague, ambiguous and made no sense. No details or supporting information was provided or even offered. It quickly became clear that she had no meaningful information.”

He said she then turned the conversation to adoption of Russian children and the Magnitsky Act, an American law that blacklists suspected Russian human rights abusers. The 2012 law so enraged President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia that he halted American adoptions of Russian children.

“It became clear to me that this was the true agenda all along and that the claims of potentially helpful information were a pretext for the meeting,” Mr. Trump said.

Two people briefed on the meeting said the intermediary was Rob Goldstone, a former British tabloid journalist and the president of a company called Oui 2 Entertainment who has worked with the Miss Universe pageant. He did not immediately respond to messages seeking comment.

Mark Corallo, a spokesman for the president’s lawyer, said on Sunday that “the president was not aware of and did not attend the meeting.”

Lawyers for Mr. Kushner referred to their statement a day earlier, confirming that he voluntarily disclosed the meeting but referring questions about it to Donald Trump Jr. Mr. Manafort declined to comment. In his statement, Donald Trump Jr. said he asked Mr. Manafort and Mr. Kushner to attend, but did not tell them what the meeting was about.

Political campaigns collect opposition research from many quarters but rarely from sources linked to foreign governments.

More at link.

[timosman]

Zippy breaks the story on RPF.

884389226351120384
884371091241799680

[Swordsmyth]

Why are Democrats so afraid of the TRUTH?

[Dr.3D]

Why are Democrats so afraid of the TRUTH?

Snowflakes are fragile.

[timosman]

Why are Democrats so afraid of the TRUTH?

They can tell no difference between Santa Claus and the government. The truth could break the spell. No more free shit.

[dannno]

884371091241799680

ROFL... I think that's the first thing I've ever heard this guy say that I really liked

[timosman]

ROFL... I think that's the first thing I've ever heard this guy say that I really liked

This is not his real account. spicier vs. spicer ;)

https://twitter.com/sean_spicier


Sean Spicier
@sean_spicier
I'm not him although @YahooStyle @UnivisionNews @BillKristol @gatewaypundit & @bizpacreview think I am

Moscow
Joined January 2017

[Brian4Liberty]

This latest outrage of the day was as predictable as the sun rising this morning. It's an attack to distract from what appeared to be a productive meeting between Putin and Trump.

It seems that the woman is a lobbyist and criminal defense lawyer.


Veselnitskaya has led the lobbying effort to kill the Magnitsky Act, according to The Daily Beast. She is the head of a Delaware-based non-governmental organization, Human Rights Accountability Global Initiative Foundation, which is “working on analyzing legal and legislative options to help overturn this adoption ban,” according to its website.
...
According to the Washington Post, Veselnitskaya was in Washington, D.C. in the days after the Trump Tower meeting to attend a House Foreign Relations Committee hearing on Russian sanctions and U.S.-Russia relations.
...
Veselnitskaya said her firm’s clients include “large-state owned and private corporations, as well as clients from the real estate and banking sectors.”
...
https://heavy.com/news/2017/07/natalia-veselnitskaya-donald-trump-jr-russian-lawyer-meeting-facebook-photos/



However, Mark Corallo, a spokesman for Trump's outside counsel, issued a statement late Saturday implying that the meeting was a setup. He said the Russian lawyer and her translator "misrepresented who they were."

Corallo told the Times that as part of her anti-Magnitsky campaign, Veselnitskaya employs a private investigator whose firm, Fusion GPS, produced the intelligence dossier that included unverified allegations about Trump.
...
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/341133-trump-jr-kushner-manafort-met-kremlin-linked-lawyer-last-year-report

[Ender]

Why are Democrats so afraid of the TRUTH?

That's called: POLITICIANS- makes no difference what they call themselves.

[timosman]

This latest outrage of the day was as predictable as the sun rising this morning.

Zippy also did not disappoint. Let's give credit where credit is due. :cool:

[UWDude]

That's interesting... ..now how many Japanes, Chinese, Mexican, Canadian, British and French lawyers has he met with? What about the lawyers from the other 200+ nations?

Texas bulls-eyeing.

[timosman]

That's interesting... ..now how many Japanes, Chinese, Mexican, Canadian, British and French lawyers has he met with? What about the lawyers from the other 200+ nations?

Texas bulls-eyeing.

Let's be honest, Kremlin lawyer sounds extremely sinister.;)

[goldenequity]

Oh the hypocrisy... think about it:
The new Russia-gate furor is over Donald Trump Jr. meeting a Russian who claimed to have dirt on Hillary Clinton,
but the Clinton team’s Russian cash-for-trash search against Trump Sr. is all but forgotten.

Forgetting the ‘Dirty Dossier’ on Trump (https://consortiumnews.com/2017/07/10/forgetting-the-dirty-dossier-on-trump/)
By Robert Parry

==========

Trump's Son 'Happy' to Discuss Meeting With Russian Lawyer With Senate Panel (https://sputniknews.com/world/201707101055419680-trump-son-russian-lawyer-meeting/)

[timosman]

Oh the hypocrisy... think about it:
The new Russia-gate furor is over Donald Trump Jr. meeting a Russian who claimed to have dirt on Hillary Clinton,
but the Clinton team’s Russian cash-for-trash search against Trump Sr. is all but forgotten.

Forgetting the ‘Dirty Dossier’ on Trump (https://consortiumnews.com/2017/07/10/forgetting-the-dirty-dossier-on-trump/)
By Robert Parry

==========

Trump's Son 'Happy' to Discuss Meeting With Russian Lawyer With Senate Panel (https://sputniknews.com/world/201707101055419680-trump-son-russian-lawyer-meeting/)

Maybe these people are insane? Is there a way to find out? #crazyunclesam

[timosman]

884789418455953413
884789839522140166

[spudea]

This looks bad until you realize the fact that the DNC hired Christopher Steele to contact sources in Russia for damaging info on Trump. Don Jr having an open mind to meet with someone for damaging info on Clinton, that turned out to be a false pretext for the meeting, is sensational for the MSM, but ultimately worthless.

[timosman]

Is the letter real?:eek:

[jllundqu]

This looks bad until you realize the fact that the DNC hired Christopher Steele to contact sources in Russia for damaging info on Trump. Don Jr having an open mind to meet with someone for damaging info on Clinton, that turned out to be a false pretext for the meeting, is sensational for the MSM, but ultimately worthless.

Perception is everything.

This LOOKS really bad, albeit who knows how ACTUALLY damaging it is.

THe point is he just released an email that basically says:

A: He wanted to meet with lawyer connected to the "Crown Prosecutor of Russia" for the purposes of obtaining 'dirt' on Hillary (which he initially lied about).
B: The email states CLEARLY that this was official Russian support for his 'father'

Don't care how you spin it.... this LOOKS like shit and will cause real damage.

[timosman]

Perception is everything.

This LOOKS really bad, albeit who knows how ACTUALLY damaging it is.

THe point is he just released an email that basically says:

A: He wanted to meet with lawyer connected to the "Crown Prosecutor of Russia" for the purposes of obtaining 'dirt' on Hillary (which he initially lied about).
B: The email states CLEARLY that this was official Russian support for his 'father'

Don't care how you spin it.... this LOOKS like shit and will cause real damage.

Are you always this funny? :rolleyes: -rep

[jllundqu]

Are you always this funny? :rolleyes: -rep

Really with the neg rep? What are you 11? Grow up

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

It seems that the woman is a lobbyist and criminal defense lawyer.


Ya, this whole NYT article is so retarded.

In theory, the ultimate source of the information from Natalia Veselnitskaya was supposed to come from the Russian government.

In reality, the source of the information was a D.C. based political research company that claimed they had information from the Russian government.

[Zippyjuan]

884789418455953413
884789839522140166

He denies meeting at all and then is posting emails confirming that he met with somebody who promised information which could influence the outcome of the election.

[timosman]

Really with the neg rep? What are you 11? Grow up

Sorry, but it is summer already and we have not gotten rid of the old trolls.

[timosman]

He denies meeting at all and then is posting emails confirming that he met with somebody who promised information which could influence the outcome of the election.

Shouldn't you be in school?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

And here's the guy who set up the meeting, Rob Goldstone. He's the publicist for a Russian pop star. Yeah, I'm sure this is how it all works. :rolleyes:



http://media.vanityfair.com/photos/5964e7b396475a07efe99367/master/w_900,c_limit/Rob-Goldstone-2009.jpg

[Zippyjuan]

Perception is everything.

This LOOKS really bad, albeit who knows how ACTUALLY damaging it is.

THe point is he just released an email that basically says:

A: He wanted to meet with lawyer connected to the "Crown Prosecutor of Russia" for the purposes of obtaining 'dirt' on Hillary (which he initially lied about).
B: The email states CLEARLY that this was official Russian support for his 'father'

Don't care how you spin it.... this LOOKS like $#@! and will cause real damage.

It is also illegal to accept foreign assistance. This is not the first denied/ not reported meeting. He was also meeting with a Russian banker.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/31/15714202/jared-kushner-russian-banker


The legal risks of Jared Kushner’s meeting with a Russian banker, explained


Federal investigators are fixated on a mysterious December meeting between senior White House adviser Jared Kushner and Russian banker Sergey Gorkov. Was Kushner really trying to open a direct channel of communications with Russian President Vladimir Putin? And why would he meet with the head of a state-controlled Russian bank to discuss such a thing?

The content of that 30-minute meeting is the latest focus of a federal investigation into the Trump campaign’s ties to Russia, which was first reported Friday by the Washington Post.

Whatever the motive of the encounter, it was a shocking and risky move for Kushner to meet with the head of a sanctioned Russian bank at all. Gorkov is the CEO of Vnesheconombank, or VEB, one of several state-run Russian banks under US sanctions since mid-2014.

As a US citizen, Kushner could face up to 20 years in prison if he even talked about lending money to the bank, or if he discussed helping the bank get financing. That would have violated the economic sanctions put in place by the Obama administration as punishment for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in 2014. Under the sanctions, it’s illegal for Americans and US financial institutions to lend money to or buy stocks from these banks. Americans are not even allowed to talk about doing so, which could be considered criminal conspiracy.

[timosman]

And here's the guy who set up the meeting, Rob Goldstone. He's the publicist for a Russian pop star. Yeah, I'm sure this is how it all works. :rolleyes:

How stupid these people really are?:cool:

[angelatc]

Don't care how you spin it.... this LOOKS like shit and will cause real damage.

To Trump? That's silly.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Another pic of Rob Goldstone, the guy who set up the meeting. Yeah, this guy looks like regular KGB.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEVNA-rXkAED0sr.jpg

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

More Rob Goldstone. A Putin double!



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEVNB0LWAAETBn1.jpg

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

There's a video of Rob Goldstone in a money blowing machine. Did anyone see that hilarity?

[angelatc]

"The email claimed that the information 'would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.' "

So where is it? Let's see it.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

They will drop the bomb and hit it out of the park any year now.



http://orig07.deviantart.net/abfb/f/2012/154/5/5/boris_and_natasha_by_chadporter-d526fv6.jpg





https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder530/75944530.jpg

[jllundqu]

Sorry, but it is summer already and we have not gotten rid of the old trolls.

Are you accusing me of being a fucking troll?? I suggest you read my extensive post history.

[timosman]

Are you accusing me of being a fucking troll?? I suggest you read my extensive post history.

Another achiever.;)

[Zippyjuan]

"The email claimed that the information 'would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.' "

So where is it? Let's see it.

The email? http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-jr-email-chain-jared-kushner-manafort-2017-7

It was posted by Trump Jr. himself on Twitter. Entire email chain is at the link. Link to Trump Jr. posting on twitter: https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/884789418455953413

http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/5964ea16d9fccd03708b50fb-1583/don%20jr%20email%204.jpg

[phill4paul]

Sorry, but it is summer already and we have not gotten rid of the old trolls.

Pretty sure now who the troll is. Do you have anymore low value posts or threads to make? :rolleyes:;):cool::rolleyes:;):cool::cool::cool:

[Dangergirl]

So basically what the media is saying is that anyone in America of Russian nationality is a Russian agent :rolleyes: And people are actually supposed to fall for this?

[goldenequity]

anybody looking for a good summary....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZFZ9MoSJM4

psst... it's FUSION GPS (again. :D )

[timosman]

Pretty sure now who the troll is. Do you have anymore low value posts or threads to make? :rolleyes:;):cool::rolleyes:;):cool::cool::cool:

What's your problem? Are you Zippy's real father?

[spudea]

Perception is everything.

This LOOKS really bad, albeit who knows how ACTUALLY damaging it is.

THe point is he just released an email that basically says:

A: He wanted to meet with lawyer connected to the "Crown Prosecutor of Russia" for the purposes of obtaining 'dirt' on Hillary (which he initially lied about).
B: The email states CLEARLY that this was official Russian support for his 'father'

Don't care how you spin it.... this LOOKS like $#@! and will cause real damage.

884842366766641152

The perception should match reality. They contacted him. He didn't know what they had. You can disagree and say he shouldn't of taken the meeting, but I really don't see how this is a smoking gun on "collusion" beyond innuendo and additional loony left witch hunting. Zippy says it's illegal to accept foreign assistance, however that is incorrect regarding FEC rules pertaining to opposition research. I'll link source shortly.

[jllundqu]

Another achiever.;)

Seriously what is your fucking problem? If there's anyone who's a troll here, it's you. Appears you don't have the intellectual capacity god gave a goat. You're divisive and intentionally malevolent. Not wasting my time on your BS any more.

[timosman]

Seriously what is your fucking problem? If there's anyone who's a troll here, it's you. Appears you don't have the intellectual capacity god gave a goat. You're divisive and intentionally malevolent. Not wasting my time on your BS any more.

I am pretty sure this violates the rules.

[spudea]

It is also illegal to accept foreign assistance.

Incorrect per FEC guidelines.

"Generally, an individual (including a foreign national) may volunteer personal services to a federal candidate or federal political committee without making a contribution. The Act provides this volunteer "exemption" as long as the individual performing the service is not compensated by anyone."

https://www.fec.gov/updates/foreign-nationals/

[Zippyjuan]

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/7/10/15950590/donald-trump-jr-new-york-times-illegal


A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.

Is information considered "other thing of value"?


Legal experts say Donald Trump Jr has just confessed to a federal crime

Donald Trump Jr. met with a Russian lawyer in June 2016 with the express purpose of getting information the Russian government had supposedly acquired on Hillary Clinton, according to a New York Times report published on Monday night.

Trump Jr. then confirmed the story on Tuesday on Twitter by releasing the actual emails between him and British publicist Rob Goldstone setting up the meeting — emails that proved without a shadow of a doubt that the Trump Jr. was told beforehand that the information he would be getting came from the Russian government.

“This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump,” Goldstone wrote to Trump Jr. “ “If it’s what you say I love it,” he replied.

Trump Jr. had already admitted in a statement that he took the meeting with the Russian attorney, a woman named Natalia Veselnitskaya, to get useful information on Hillary Clinton. His defense of his actions was that the meeting didn’t bear fruit: that “it quickly became clear that she had no meaningful information.” In other words, there’s no way this constituted meaningful collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia because Veselnitskaya didn’t provide him with anything useful.

But experts on national security and election law say this “defense” is, legally speaking, no defense at all.

“The emails are simply put damning as a legal matter,” explains Ryan Goodman, a former Defense Department special counsel and current editor of the legal site Just Security. “The text of the emails provide very clear evidence of participation in a scheme to involve the Russian government in federal election interference, in a form that is prohibited by federal criminal law.”

Jens David Ohlin, a law professor at Cornell University, is even blunter: “It’s a shocking admission of a criminal conspiracy.”

Trump Jr.‘s decision to take the meeting in and of itself likely violated campaign finance law, which does not require you to actually get anything useful from foreigners. In other words, the mere fact that Trump Jr. asked for information from a Russian national about Clinton might have constituted a federal crime.

“The law states that no person shall knowingly solicit or accept from a foreign national any contribution to a campaign of an item of value,” Goodman tells me. “There is now a clear case that Donald Trump Jr. has met all the elements of the law, which is a criminally enforced federal statute.”

Why Trump Jr. may have broken the law

The statute in question is 52 USC 30121, 36 USC 510 — the law governing foreign contributions to US campaigns. There are two key passages that apply here. This is the first:


A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.

The crucial phrase here is “other thing of value,” legal experts tell me. It means that the law extends beyond just cash donations. Foreigners are also banned from providing other kinds of contributions that would be the functional equivalent of a campaign donation, just provided in the form of services rather than goods. Like, say, damaging information the Russian government collected about Hillary Clinton.

“To the extent you’re using the resources of a foreign country to run your campaign — that’s an illegal campaign contribution,” Nick Akerman, an assistant special prosecutor during the Watergate investigation who now specializes in data crime, says.

Here’s the second important passage of the statute: “No person shall knowingly solicit, accept, or receive from a foreign national any contribution or donation prohibited by [this law].”

The key word from Trump Jr., according to University of California Irvine election law expert Rick Hasen, is “solicit,” which has a very specific meaning in this context. To quote the relevant statute:


A solicitation is an oral or written communication that, construed as reasonably understood in the context in which it is made, contains a clear message asking, requesting, or recommending that another person make a contribution, donation, transfer of funds, or otherwise provide anything of value.

Trump Jr. was clearly soliciting information that he knew was coming from a foreign source. Given that political campaigns regularly pay thousands of dollars to opposition researchers to dig up dirt, it seems like damaging information on Clinton would constitute something “of value” to the Trump campaign.

The solicitation bit is why it doesn’t matter if Trump Jr. actually got useful information. The part that’s illegal, according to the experts I spoke to, is trying to acquire dirt on Clinton from a foreign source, not successfully acquiring it. And his statement more or less admits that he did, in fact, solicit this information.

“The most recent [developments] are especially significant because they include specific statements on the record conceding the Trump campaign’s expressed interest in what the Russians could provide,” Bob Bauer, White House counsel for Barack Obama from 2010 to 2011, writes at Just Security. “Those statements show intent — a clear-cut willingness to have Russian support — and they reveal specific actions undertaken to obtain it.”

Trump appears to have recognized some danger. On Monday afternoon, he hired a lawyer, Alan Futerfas, to represent him on issues relating to the Russia investigation. So far, Futerfas has not responded to a request for comment.

The emails blows the best defense he has out of the water
In order to actually nail Donald Trump Jr. on solicitation charges, experts say, prosecutors need to be able to show that he knew the person he was soliciting emails from a foreign source. Trump Jr.’s Sunday statement gave him a tiny bit of wiggle room on this point. In it, he said: “I was not told her name prior to the meeting,” implying that he didn’t know much about the person he was meeting — perhaps including, among other things, her nationality.

According to Goodman, the former Defense Department special counsel, this line was the one thing that kept Trump Jr.’s statement of from being a clear-cut confession of having violated the law. But the emails, he thinks, blow this excuse out of the water. They show that Trump Jr. went into the meeting with knowledge that he was going to the meeting in an attempt to solicit information from the Russian government.

If Bauer, Goodman, and Hasen are reading the statute correctly, then Trump Jr. has now openly admitted damaging facts that prosecutors would otherwise need to prove to make a case against him. And now we’ve seen emails that prove Trump Jr.’s intent was to solicit information from a foreign source. It seems hard to imagine federal prosecutors won’t look at that.

“I’d want to get everyone who was involved in that meeting in front of a grand jury, and find out what they say about what happened there,” Akerman, the former Watergate prosecutor, said when asked what he’d do in light of the recent news.

Mr. Futerfas certainly has his work cut out for him. So, too, to the attorneys representing Jared Kushner and former Trump campaign chair Paul Manafort, who attended the meeting and were CC’d on the crucial email. “The emails also directly implicate Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort, who are included on the entire email chain,” Goodman says.

[Zippyjuan]

Incorrect per FEC guidelines.

"Generally, an individual (including a foreign national) may volunteer personal services to a federal candidate or federal political committee without making a contribution. The Act provides this volunteer "exemption" as long as the individual performing the service is not compensated by anyone."

https://www.fec.gov/updates/foreign-nationals/

The email indicated that they knew the information was from the Russian government, not just an individual but thanks for the information. Would the promised information be considered a "contribution" to the campaign? Campaigns regularly pay for inside information.

From the emails:


The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

This is obviously high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government support for Mr. Trump- helped along by Aras and Emin.

What do you think is the best way to handle this information and would you be able to speak to Emin about it directly?

I can also send this info to your father via Rhona, but it is ultra sensitive so wanted to send to you first.


"I love it".

[Swordsmyth]

Am I the only one who noticed that he thought he would be getting info that would be damaging not only to Hitley but to RUSSIA?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

So you're derailing you're own thread now?



It is also illegal to accept foreign assistance. This is not the first denied/ not reported meeting. He was also meeting with a Russian banker.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/31/15714202/jared-kushner-russian-banker

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

The email?



No, the incriminating info to which the email refers.

And where is the evidence for the hacking of the election boxes?

[Zippyjuan]

Speaking of thread derail.....


No, the incriminating info to which the email refers.

And where is the evidence for the hacking of the election boxes?

Where is the claim they hacked any election boxes?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Where is the claim they hacked any election boxes?


That's what you people are claiming. Nice try.

[Zippyjuan]

That's what you people are claiming. Nice try.

Where do I make that claim?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Where do I make that claim?

I said "you people."

[Zippyjuan]

I said "you people."

"you people?" Who are "you people"? Again, where is the claim made?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Again, where is the claim made?

There this new thing out. It's called "the news."




"you people?" Who are "you people"?


Your group.

[Zippyjuan]

There this new thing out. It's called "the news."






Your group.

I see. As usual, you have nothing. Thanks anyways!

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I see. As usual, you have nothing.


Dude, you're as obvious as a foot long turd in a toilet.

Keep making threads about election interference. I'm sure your nothing will turn into something any year now.

[phill4paul]

What's your problem? Are you Zippy's real father?

Yet another witty rejoinder. :rolleyes: But, no emoji? :confused: Did you forget how? :eek:

It's like riding a bike. :cool:

[spudea]

The email indicated that they knew the information was from the Russian government, not just an individual but thanks for the information. Would the promised information be considered a "contribution" to the campaign? Campaigns regularly pay for inside information.

From the emails:

The term thing of value is meant to cover physical assets or services with a clearly defined monetary value, i.e. gold or a service such as printing info mailers/ advertisements to circumvent as a campaign donation. Opposition research documents printed on worthless paper cannot be assigned a tangible value.

The term foreign national is defined by the FEC as including foreign governments per the link I shared above.

Finally, a foreign government expressing support for a candidate or favoring a candidate is in no way a violation of any rules. See this Politico investigation of the Ukrainian government's support of HRC's campaign. It includes a DNC staffer arranging a meeting with Ukrainian official for damaging information on Paul Manafort.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446


Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found.

[Zippyjuan]

And here's the guy who set up the meeting, Rob Goldstone. He's the publicist for a Russian pop star. Yeah, I'm sure this is how it all works. :rolleyes:





He worked on Trump's Miss Universe pageant in Russia. His Dad is a major player in Russia. You can't get rich in Russia without help from the state. He was given the Order of Honor by Putin.

http://crocusgroup.com/upload/iblock/197/1975d85e48d1ddca2ba2a9091a8a4fa5.jpg

Trump with father and son (Putin cancelled at the last minute but gave a lavish box):
https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_1484w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2016/06/17/Others/Images/2016-06-17/GettyImages-1875006591466182751.jpg?uuid=16zosDSsEearnR2isPJPk w

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-trumps-financial-ties-to-russia-and-his-unusual-flattery-of-vladimir-putin/2016/06/17/dbdcaac8-31a6-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html?utm_term=.4e792b9e5817


Putin canceled at the last minute, but he sent a decorative lacquered box, a traditional Russian gift, and a warm note, according to Aras Agalarov, a Moscow billionaire who served as a liaison between Trump and the Russian leader.

Still, the weekend was fruitful for Trump. He received a portion of the $14 million paid by Agalarov and other investors to bring the pageant to Moscow. Agalarov said he and Trump signed an agreement to build a Trump Tower in the heart of Moscow — at least Trump’s fifth attempt at such a venture. And Trump seemed energized by his interactions with Russia’s financial elite at the pageant and a glitzy after-party in a Moscow nightclub.

“Almost all of the oligarchs were in the room,” Trump bragged to Real Estate Weekly upon returning home.

The overwhelming consensus among American political and national security leaders has held that Putin is a pariah who disregards human rights and has violated international norms in seeking to regain influence and territory in the former Soviet bloc. In 2012, one year before Trump brought his beauty pageant to Moscow, then-Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney called Russia the United States’ top geopolitical threat — an assessment that has only gained currency since then.

Trump has conveyed a different view, informed in part through his business ambitions. Since the 1980s, Trump and his family members have made numerous trips to Moscow in search of business opportunities, and they have relied on Russian investors to buy their properties around the world.

“Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets,” Trump’s son, Donald Jr., told a real estate conference in 2008, according to an account posted on the website of eTurboNews, a trade publication. “We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.”


Trump’s 1987 trip represented his first public exploration of business prospects in Moscow. He went with his then-wife, *Ivana, to scope out sites for luxury hotels he hoped to build in a joint venture with the Kremlin’s hotel and tourism agency, according to Trump’s memoir, “The Art of the Deal,” which was published the same year.

The project never got off the ground — an outcome that would repeat itself multiple times between then and his 2013 trip.


In 2013, Trump found a new Russian partner for a Moscow real estate project, Aras Agalarov, an Azeri-born real estate developer who is sometimes called the “Trump of Russia” for his tendency to emblazon his name on his development projects.

The Agalarovs are wealthy developers who have received several contracts for state-funded construction projects, a sign of their closeness to the Putin government. Shortly after the pageant, Putin awarded the elder Agalarov the “Order of Honor of the Russian Federation,” a prestigious designation.

Agalarov and his son Emin spoke with The Post earlier this year at the chic Nobu restaurant inside Crocus City Mall, their gleaming luxury development.

They said they first met Trump after hiring Miss Universe contestants for one of Emin’s music videos. Trump ultimately appeared in the video along with the beauty queens. After the video and the 2013 pageant, the Agalarovs said they developed a deeper relationship with Trump.

“I convinced my father it would be cool to have next to each other the Trump Tower and Agalarov Tower, and he was kind of into it at some point,” Emin Agalarov said.

The Trump Tower deal never moved past preliminary discussions. But Agalarov said the family is interested in a possible future venture.

Trump’s top aides, too, have had ties to Russia. Campaign chairman Paul Manafort has done multimillion-dollar business deals with pro-Russian oligarchs and was a longtime adviser to the Russia-aligned Ukrainian president whose 2014 ouster triggered Russia’s intervention in Ukraine, a major source of tension between Russia and the United States as well as its NATO allies.

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman".

"We don't have any connections with Russia."

[Swordsmyth]

He worked on Trump's Miss Universe pageant in Russia. His Dad is a major player in Russia. You can't get rich in Russia without help from the state. He was given the Order of Honor by Putin.

http://crocusgroup.com/upload/iblock/197/1975d85e48d1ddca2ba2a9091a8a4fa5.jpg

Trump with father and son (Putin cancelled at the last minute but gave a lavish box):
https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_1484w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2016/06/17/Others/Images/2016-06-17/GettyImages-1875006591466182751.jpg?uuid=16zosDSsEearnR2isPJPk w

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-trumps-financial-ties-to-russia-and-his-unusual-flattery-of-vladimir-putin/2016/06/17/dbdcaac8-31a6-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html?utm_term=.4e792b9e5817







"I did not have sexual relations with that woman".

"We don't have any connections with Russia."

Funny how you never notice the much more solid and damning Russian connections to Hitlery and Meuller, the Dems etc.

[Zippyjuan]

Funny how you never notice the much more solid and damning Russian connections to Hitlery and Meuller, the Dems etc.

You are right- I haven't seen as solid of connections.

[Swordsmyth]

You are right- I haven't seen as solid of connections.
Then you are blind.

Hillary Clinton Told FBI's Mueller To Deliver Uranium To Russians In 2009 "Secret Plane-Side Tarmac Meeting"http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-19/hillary-clinton-told-fbis-mueller-deliver-uranium-russians-2009-secret-plane-side-ta


Wikileaks Reveals Former FBI Director Mueller Gave Russia Uranium In 2009https://www.infowars.com/wikileaks-reveals-former-fbi-director-mueller-gave-russia-uranium-in-2009/

And there is much more.

[nikcers]

This to me seems like a distraction where they only give you part of the information. They probably did the same thing to Trump's people as they did John Kirikou and attempted to bait them into colluding with Russia or at least try to bribe them or trick them into making look like he did. I really think the government is trying to sell people the idea that we need the Federal government policing the internet. All we need is the political equivalence of an internet 9/11 and we can say hello to Chinese and Russian like internet surveillance.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

He worked on Trump's Miss Universe pageant in Russia. His Dad is a major player in Russia. You can't get rich in Russia without help from the state. He was given the Order of Honor by Putin.


Wow! That is solid evidence! Will your next thread be the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon?




"I did not have sexual relations with that woman".

"We don't have any connections with Russia."


Right you are, because it's certainly legit to compare a fairly well-defined biological concept with some words in quotes that no one was documented as saying.

[timosman]

This to me seems like a distraction where they only give you part of the information. They probably did the same thing to Trump's people as they did John Kirikou and attempted to bait them into colluding with Russia or at least try to bribe them or trick them into making look like he did. I really think the government is trying to sell people the idea that we need the Federal government policing the internet. All we need is the political equivalence of an internet 9/11 and we can say hello to Chinese and Russian like internet surveillance.

Imagine Zippy working for the office of internet censorship.

[timosman]

You are right- I haven't seen as solid of connections.

Does your employer provide mental health benefits? I would suggest using them.

[timosman]

Chuck Grassley wants to know how Russian attorney Natalia Veselnitskaya was able to enter US for Donald Trump Jr. meeting

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/chuck-grassley-wants-to-know-how-russian-attorney-natalia-veselnitskaya-was-able-to-enter-us-for-donald-trump-jr-meeting/article/2628361


by Josh Siegel | Jul 11, 2017

Sen. Chuck Grassley, the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, wrote a letter Tuesday to Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly asking for information on how the Russian lawyer who met with Donald Trump Jr. was able to enter the U.S.

Grassley, R-Iowa, wrote that the attorney, Natalia Veselnitskaya, was denied a visa before her Jan. 9, 2016 meeting with Trump Jr., in which she was offering "very high level and sensitive information" that would "incriminate" Hillary Clinton, the Democratic nominee for president.

Veselnitskaya, however, was granted parole to enter the U.S. sometime in 2015, Grassley said, but her parole status expired Jan. 7, 2016.

According to a chain of emails, Trump Jr. released Tuesday in which he planned the meeting with Rob Goldstone, a British-born former tabloid reporter and entertainment publicist, Veselnitskaya was described to Trump Jr. as a Russian government attorney who could provide information detrimental to Clinton.

The lawyer told the Washington Post in an interview Tuesday that she has no connection to the Kremlin.

Veselnitskaya is known to have a long history lobbying against U.S. sanctions on Russia.

[jllundqu]

Once again, perception is reality.

This shows Don Jr lied, period. (Tosses gasoline onto Russia narrative fire that was almost out).
This shows that the Russian government did 'support [the] father's campaign' (Tosses napalm onto Russia narrative fire that was almost out).

Don Jr didn't commit a crime, imo. But this will now become even more of a circus and prevent Trump from accomplishing anything until the smoke clears. The media will circle jerk this until 2018 and they have PROOF that Don Jr lied about meeting foreign nationals and trying to cover it up. Same goes for Kushner and Manafort.

The Trumps have largely brought this faux-scandal on themselves. They should have never put this shit in writing, and certainly never taken the meeting without more precautions.

[Brian4Liberty]

Are you always this funny? :rolleyes: -rep


Sorry, but it is summer already and we have not gotten rid of the old trolls.


Shouldn't you be in school?

Time for everyone to review the Site Guidelines (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/content.php?1989). Avoid low-value posting, don't harass other members. Thank you for your support.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/content.php?1989

Some relevant out-takes:


2) Treat others with respect.

Do not make accusations, declarations on others' character, question their motives, be judgmental, assign them to a group or make any other negative personal commentary of members.
No insulting, antagonizing or personally attacking other users.
Do not suggest that other members should leave or that they otherwise don't belong here.
Do not publicly discuss which site members you don't like, who is on your ignore list or similar.
No misquoting other members when debating, such as with "fixed it for you."
Be respectful of others' religion or lack thereof.
No posting of anyone's personal contact information or members' personal details.
See the "Being Respectful" section below for more details.
...
5) Elevate the level of discourse.

No rude, disruptive or disorderly behavior, including excessive low-value posting.
All discussion must be civil.
The use of vulgarity should be avoided and not be gratuitous.
No posting of images that are graphically offensive, grotesque, sickly, have distorted human images or the like, including within the use of avatars. If any such material is functionally necessary pursuant to our Mission, only links should be used, with warning messages next to the link.
No content that is overly distracting from our Mission, such as topics that focus on gratuitous violence or strong sexual material.
Ad hominem attacks on any individual or group is strongly discouraged. Use proper names.
Respond to conflicts and guideline violations in an appropriate manner. See "Dealing with Conflict and Guideline Violations" for details.
See the section "Maintaining a High Level of Discourse - Special Considerations" for more information.
...
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/content.php?1989

[jllundqu]

Time for everyone to review the Site Guidelines (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/content.php?1989). Avoid low-value posting, don't harass other members. Thank you for your support.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/content.php?1989

Some relevant out-takes:

About damn time. outta rep

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Brian4Liberty again.

[Jamesiv1]

Sounds like smart politiking to me.

Name me a campaign team in the history of ever that would turn down potential dirt on an opponent?

[jllundqu]

Sounds like smart politiking to me.

Name me a campaign team in the history of ever that would turn down potential dirt on an opponent?

Prior to a debate between Al Gore and George Bush, someone handed the 'playbook' and prep manual that Bush was using to Al Gores campaign. Rather than use it, they called the FBI.

884257849085394944

[Golding]

This all sounds an awful lot like one of those "conspiracy theories" the news used to shut down Ron Paul supporters' complaints as about 10 years ago...

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Prior to a debate between Al Gore and George Bush, someone handed the 'playbook' and prep manual that Bush was using to Al Gores campaign. Rather than use it, they called the FBI.

884257849085394944


Unless they made copies of it. It was all hard copy and video. They, at least, had to look at it to determine the content. No telling how much they looked at it before turning it in. I don't even think there was much in there that was that interesting anyway.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

So let's say person X contacts me and tells me they have something interesting for me. I go to their house. Instead of producing the interesting item, person X asks to borrow some money. Isn't that person lying? Isn't this what the police do when they conduct prostitution and drug sting operations?

Is a person really guilty if the suggested item is never produced, never existed, and/or is lied about?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

The term thing of value is meant to cover physical assets or services with a clearly defined monetary value, i.e. gold or a service such as printing info mailers/ advertisements to circumvent as a campaign donation. Opposition research documents printed on worthless paper cannot be assigned a tangible value.

The term foreign national is defined by the FEC as including foreign governments per the link I shared above.

Finally, a foreign government expressing support for a candidate or favoring a candidate is in no way a violation of any rules. See this Politico investigation of the Ukrainian government's support of HRC's campaign. It includes a DNC staffer arranging a meeting with Ukrainian official for damaging information on Paul Manafort.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446



More from that article:



A Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort and Russia, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation.

The Ukrainian efforts had an impact in the race, helping to force Manafort’s resignation and advancing the narrative that Trump’s campaign was deeply connected to Ukraine’s foe to the east, Russia.

[devil21]

So basically what the media is saying is that anyone in America of Russian nationality is a Russian agent :rolleyes: And people are actually supposed to fall for this?

Best post of entire thread^^

[H. E. Panqui]

....anyone not a republicrat sucker understands that were these EXACT charges, allegations, etc., directed at hillary clinton instead of trump the loudest republican apologists for stinking trump would be the loudest accusers of stinking clinton..and vice versa..

...ugh...republicrats really really suck...really...

[goldenequity]

So basically what the media is saying is that anyone in America of Russian nationality is a Russian agent :rolleyes: And people are actually supposed to fall for this?

McCarthy 2.0!
hahaha... ya mean like this? (like there's NOTHING else to TALK about w/ the highest Law Enforcement person in the country... cept Russia.)
(hours ago... Sen. Graham at Chris Wray, FBI chief Senate Confirmation hearing... )


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SHvMspfrsc

stumping for impeachment... (it's coming.)

[r3volution 3.0]

So basically what the media is saying is that anyone in America of Russian nationality is a Russian agent :rolleyes: And people are actually supposed to fall for this?

Trump's son, son-in-law, and campaign manager were open to assistance from someone who claimed to be a Russian agent.

That they apparently got duped is beside the point.


But this will now become even more of a circus and prevent Trump from accomplishing anything...

Considering what kinds of things he was trying to 'accomplish' (Obamacare Lite, more spending, more bombing), that's fine with me.

[Swordsmyth]

Trump's son, son-in-law, and campaign manager were open to assistance from someone who claimed to be a Russian agent.
There was nothing wrong with what he tried to do, Hitlery did the same with the Ukies and the Brits. WE ARE NOT AT WAR WITH RUSSIA so they are not an "enemy power".


Considering what kinds of things he was trying to 'accomplish' (Obamacare Lite, more spending, more bombing), that's fine with me.
Considering that those running the coup want war with Russia and everything you don't like about Dump doubled we should all pray they don't succeed.

[enhanced_deficit]

If this is confirmed, his son and Kushner should be asked to resign from cabinet so investigations can be completed and all the facts can be outed in a neutral atmosphere.

[r3volution 3.0]

There was nothing wrong with what he tried to do

You don't think there's anything wrong with American political candidates assisting a foreign power in interfering with American elections?

Do you take the same view when it goes the other way, with American interference in foreign elections?

...personally, I'm rather "meh" on the whole thing, given my lack of enthusiasm for national sovereignty, but you?


Hitlery did the same with the Ukies and the Brits.

"They do it too" isn't a good defense.


Considering that those running the coup want war with Russia and everything you don't like about Dump doubled we should all pray they don't succeed.

There is no difference between Trump's foreign policy and that of the mainstream of the GOP.

Nothing has changed or will change.

[Swordsmyth]

You don't think there's anything wrong with American political candidates assisting a foreign power in interfering with American elections?

Do you take the same view when it goes the other way, with American interference in foreign elections?
I am not afraid of the TRUTH coming from any source, and no one else should be either, giving the public the truth is not "interfering with elections" it is aiding the public to make an informed decision.



"They do it too" isn't a good defense.
It is not meant as one, It is meant to point out that nobody seems to think "They" did anything wrong. Hypocrisy makes me mad.



There is no difference between Trump's foreign policy and that of the mainstream of the GOP.

Nothing has changed or will change.
That is why they want him gone?

[r3volution 3.0]

That is why they want him gone?

Is "they" FOX, who shill for him all day every day? Or perhaps the Republican politicians who praise him and vote with him?

The GOP is by and large fine with Trump, so long as he doesn't hurt them in the polls - no real policy objections.

The only real ideological opposition is from a handful of libertarians and the psychotic fringe of the neocons.

...who oppose Trump in the same way they opposed Obama (was the latter an "outsider"?).

[Swordsmyth]

Is "they" FOX, who shill for him all day every day? Or perhaps the Republican politicians who praise him and vote with him?

The GOP is by and large fine with Trump, so long as he doesn't hurt them in the polls - no real policy objections.

The only real ideological opposition is from a handful of libertarians and the psychotic fringe of the neocons.

...who oppose Trump in the same way they opposed Obama (was the latter an "outsider"?).


“Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”

Robert A. Heinlein

[r3volution 3.0]

“Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”

Robert A. Heinlein

https://qz.com/975848/trump-ran-as-a-foreign-policy-realist-instead-hes-become-another-interventionist-neocon/


Now, hopes for a policy truly based on narrower, more realistic, and more ethical conception of US national interests have foundered on the shoals of post-election reality. In roughly three months in office, Trump has appointed virulent anti-Iran hawks (https://theintercept.com/2017/03/01/trumps-moderate-defense-secretary-has-already-brought-us-to-the-brink-of-war/) like James Mattis and H.R. McMaster to his cabinet; has appointed an inexperienced (http://reason.com/blog/2016/11/23/nikki-haley-has-no-foreign-policy-experi) mountebank and extreme anti-Russia hawk (http://www.politico.com/story/2017/04/nikki-haley-russia-syria-237036)as his UN Ambassador; has ratcheted (http://www.apple.com) up tensions on the Korean peninsula; and has launched an illegal, unilateral and reckless air strike against Syria. He has kowtowed to all the familiar Beltway shibboleths, assuring the arbiters of establishment opinion that he no longer views NATO as “obsolete (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/04/12/trump-on-nato-i-said-it-was-obsolete-its-no-longer-obsolete/?utm_term=.46af8ac98076)” all the while making grotesque overtures (http://cdn.defenseone.com/a/defenseone/interstitial.html?v=7.4.0&rf=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.defenseone.com%2Fideas%2F2017% 2F03%2Fwhen-house-trump-met-house-saud%2F136367%2F) to the House of Saud.

Explaining Trump’s apparent transformation into a hardcore neocon is pretty straightforward. Trump is a man with zero guiding or animating principles, but for one: the pursuit of adulation. And Trump quickly found that by playing to the prejudices of the mandarins of the foreign policy establishment—bombing Syria, appointing hardliners to his cabinet and National Security Council, and dropping a horrifically destructive bomb over Afghanistan—he could finally receive the praise that had, until recently, eluded him.

And so people who found themselves agreeing with some aspects of Trump’s platform on the campaign trail must accept this fundamental truth: Trump does not pursue policies because he believes in them. He makes policy choices based on what he thinks will win him praise in an effort to sate his raging megalomania.

Some may point to Trump’s rejection of neocon luminary and Iran-contra convict Eliot Abrams (http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/08/us/elliott-abrams-admits-his-guilt-on-2-counts-in-contra-cover-up.html?pagewanted=all)as evidence that Trump really does represent a break with the past. But that is mistaken. Trump rejected Abrams for the job of deputy secretary of state not because of ideological differences but because he felt disrespected (http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/elliott-abrams-no-deputy-secretary-of-state-234908) by Abrams’ comments about him during the campaign. It was pique, not policy, that torpedoed Abrams.

Hopes for a detente with Russia under Trump have also proved to be misplaced. The tiresome narrative that Trump is a stooge of Russian president Vladimir Putin is belied by Trump’s personnel choices. Consider the fact that Trump has appointed outspoken Putin critic Fiona Hill as the top NSC official on Russia, while putting a number of Heritage Foundation functionaries in charge of staffing the State Department.

Meanwhile, erstwhile Trump supporters are beginning to wonder if they were sold a bill of goods. Writing in the Los Angeles Times last week, the libertarian journalist and stalwart anti-interventionist Justin Raimondo (http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-raimondo-trump-betrayal-antiwar-20170421-story.html) wrote that he feels “the sting of betrayal.” “As the elites rush to embrace the president,” Raimondo wrote, “those of us who supported him are horrified, angry and increasingly convinced that instead of draining the swamp, Trump has jumped headlong into it.”

Somewhere, Bill Kristol is smiling.

Prospects for teaching this pig?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTqoz0RYvVM

[Swordsmyth]

https://qz.com/975848/trump-ran-as-a-foreign-policy-realist-instead-hes-become-another-interventionist-neocon/



Prospects for teaching this pig?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTqoz0RYvVM

About the same.

But Pence or Hitlery are worse.

[Ender]

“Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.”

Robert A. Heinlein

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
-Robert A. Heinlein-

One of my favorite all time writers, BTW. ;)

[UWDude]

which he initially lied about)

Please explain how he lied. I'll be waiting.


Prior to a debate between Al Gore and George Bush, someone handed the 'playbook' and prep manual that Bush was using to Al Gores campaign. Rather than use it, they called the FBI.

884257849085394944

LoL CNN handed Donna Brazil debate questions for Clinton.

And it is not illegal to get information and dirt on politicians from foreign actors.


You don't think there's anything wrong with American political candidates assisting a foreign power in interfering with American elections?

More rev 3.0 super twisted double speak strawman extravaganza.

"assisting a foreign power"

0 evidence she works for the Kremlin.

"interfering with American elections"

Of course you buy that line. Anything bad for Trump, you swallow, hook line and sinker.

[r3volution 3.0]

You don't think there's anything wrong with American political candidates assisting a foreign power in interfering with American elections?

More rev 3.0 super twisted double speak strawman extravaganza.

"assisting a foreign power"

0 evidence she works for the Kremlin.

"interfering with American elections"

Of course you buy that line. Anything bad for Trump, you swallow, hook line and sinker.

Trump's son, son-in-law, and campaign manager met with someone claiming to represent the Russian government to obtain dirt on Hillary.

True or false?

[UWDude]

Trump's son, son-in-law, and campaign manager met with someone claiming to represent the Russian government to obtain dirt on Hillary.

True or false?

False. She didn't claim to represent the Russian government.
Read the email again.

[UWDude]

Here is her archived facebook:
http://archive.is/mdSre

Look like someone out to help Trump win to you?

[parocks]

Zippy breaks the story on RPF.

884389226351120384
884371091241799680

why is this supposed to be bad?

[r3volution 3.0]

False. She didn't claim to represent the Russian government.
Read the email again.

From the initial email making the offer to Trump Jr:


The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father. This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and it's government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin.
http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/5964ea16d9fccd03708b50fb-1583/don%20jr%20email%204.jpg

[UWDude]

where in that statement does she claim to represent the Russian government?

The Crown Prosecutor is twice removed from her... how does that make here a representative for the Russian government?

[timosman]

where in that statement does she claim to represent the Russian government?

The Crown Prosecutor is twice removed from her... how does that make here a representative for the Russian government?

She's from Russia.

[r3volution 3.0]

where in that statement does she claim to represent the Russian government?

The Crown Prosecutor is twice removed from her... how does that make here a representative for the Russian government?

Goldstone, claiming to represent the Russian government, sends Trump Jr the offer of information.

Trump Jr accepts - i.e. expresses interest in the information and in having a meeting about it.

Goldstone tells Trump Jr he'll send someone to meet him, a "Russian government attorney."

Trump Jr meets that person.

[UWDude]

Goldstone, claiming to represent the Russian government, sends Trump Jr the offer of information.


Goldstone didn't claim to represent the Russian government. Goldstone is a music producer.

Figure out the facts, first, before even TRYING to step to me. buck-O.


Goldstone tells Trump Jr he'll send someone to meet him, a "Russian government attorney."

So a Russian Defense attorney is now a "representative of the russian government?"


Trump's son, son-in-law, and campaign manager met with someone claiming to represent the Russian government...

true or false?

Still false, revolution 3.0. Nothing you can say can make it true. You were wrong, you are being wrong again with your ludicrous and unfounded Goldstone claims. You obviously are hastily researching on the fly, trying desperately to look knowledgeable about something you haven't the faintest clue about... ..besides what you read during your two-minutes hate.

But it's not like I have ever come to expect anything better from you. You have always been a fact-less bundle of logical fallacies and rage.

[Swordsmyth]

Goldstone, claiming to represent the Russian government, sends Trump Jr the offer of information.

Trump Jr accepts - i.e. expresses interest in the information and in having a meeting about it.

Goldstone tells Trump Jr he'll send someone to meet him, a "Russian government attorney."

Trump Jr meets that person.

There is nothing wrong with what he did.

And if you are discussing the allegation that he lied then you are forgetting that he found out that he had been lied to and that this person was not connected to the government of Russia.

[r3volution 3.0]

Goldstone didn't claim to represent the Russian government. Goldstone is a music producer.

LOL/WTF..

Let's try this again:


The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father. This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and it's government's support for Mr. Trump - helped along by Aras and Emin.

[UWDude]

LOL/WTF..

Let's try this again:

Where in that does Goldstone claim to represent the Russian government?
Why would Goldstone claim to represent the Russian government when Trump Jr already knew he was a music producer, and not a representative of the russian government?


You are a mess, boy. You can LOL/WTF all you want... you are the one completely confused by everything right now.

[timosman]

Can we go back to the old and tried "there was no intent" defense? It worked for Hillary rather well.

[timosman]

Where in that does Goldstone claim to represent the Russian government?
Why would Goldstone claim to represent the Russian government when Trump Jr already knew he was a music producer, and not a representative of the russian government?

Everybody can be an agent in the matrix. Were you paying attention or were you looking at the woman in red dress?

[r3volution 3.0]

Where in that does Goldstone claim to represent the Russian government?

Goldstone is telling Trump Jr that people in the Russian government want to give him information.

Goldstone is writing to Trump Jr on behalf of those people, i.e. representing them.


Why would Goldstone claim to represent the Russian government when Trump Jr already knew he was a music producer, and not a representative of the russian government?

One can be a music producer and a representative of the Russian government.

"Representative of the Russian government" doesn't mean an official representative like an ambassador or the like.

It means someone representing the Russian government in some matter.

If I send you a PM to pass along a message from SwordSmyth, I'm representing SwordSmyth.

Why are you making such a tremendous effort not to understand (rhetorical question, answer is obvious)?

[Swordsmyth]

Goldstone is telling Trump Jr that people in the Russian government want to give him information.

Goldstone is writing to Trump Jr on behalf of those people, i.e. representing them.



One can be a music producer and a representative of the Russian government.

"Representative of the Russian government" doesn't mean an official representative like an ambassador or the like.

It means someone representing the Russian government in some matter.

If I send you a PM to pass along a message from SwordSmyth, I'm representing SwordSmyth.

Why are you making such a tremendous effort not to understand (rhetorical question, answer is obvious)?

I agree with your point of logic about the claimed representation but there is nothing wrong with what he did.

And if you are discussing the allegation that he lied then you are forgetting that he found out that he had been lied to and that this person was not connected to the government of Russia.

[r3volution 3.0]

...but there is nothing wrong with what he did.

I know that's your position, but it's not the position of most pro-Trump people, as evidenced by UWDude's tortured reasoning. They need to deny the obvious because they do think it's a problem for American political candidates to attempt to collude with foreign government for the purpose of changing the outcomes of elections (or at least they know most Americans think it's a problem, and so this hurts Dear Leader).


And if you are discussing the allegation that he lied then you are forgetting that he found out that he had been lied to and that this person was not connected to the government of Russia.

Haven't even gotten to any possible lies or illegalities at this point, just the facts of what happened, and Trump Co's intentions in the matter.

[UWDude]

Goldstone is telling Trump Jr that people in the Russian government want to give him information.

Goldstone is writing to Trump Jr on behalf of those people, i.e. representing them.

That is some stellar semantic gymnastics. Still fail.


"Representative of the Russian government" doesn't mean an official representative like an ambassador or the like.

So are you trying to strengthen, or weaken your argument Trump Jr did something illegal here? Because you aren't helping yourself at all.


I agree with your point of logic about the claimed representation but there is nothing wrong with what he did.

Goldstone never claimed to represent the Russian Government. Never.

[timosman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mieGgqR10Gw

[r3volution 3.0]

your argument Trump Jr did something illegal

I never made any such argument.


That is some stellar semantic gymnastics. Still fail.

That's rich.

[Driftar]

Logged in for the first time in years just to point out there is no Crown Prosecutor position. Also the line that Goldstone was offering "information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia" backs up Trump Jr. and other firsthand accounts of the meeting that Trump Jr. asked her straight up what evidence she has of Hillary's illegal dealings with Russia, none was provided, the lawyer they'd never met before went into a pitch about Russian adoption laws, and everyone knew it was bullshit.

So yeah Jr. gets this wonky email claiming to have evidence of Russian collusion with Hillary. Any argument that he should've reported it right then is a naive. I've worked on campaigns and know how you get a thousand leads and 90 percent go nowhere. Goldstone's previous dealings with Jr. are why he said he entertained the meeting, and that seems more than reasonable. He was certainly getting hit up constantly by people claiming to have all sorts of dirt on Hillary, and some were probably setups like this meeting turned out to be. He got an email from an acquaintance with some connections claiming to have evidence of Hillary/Russian collusion. Why not follow up?

And after the fact no sense reporting it cause three's nothing to report. Doesn't excuse Trump Jr. from not mentioning this when asked if he'd "ever met with Russians" I guess, but I find the entire thing a neo-McCarthyist frenzy intended to push back against any attempt to leave Syria and justify our inflated military and intelligence spending and box Trump into a corner easing relations with Russia or removing the sanctions that are likely based on the lie that the DNC emails were hacked rather than leaked.

(PS- I hate Trump and voted Ron, Ron, and Rand/Gary in the last three pres elections.)

[Todd]

About the same.

But Pence or Hitlery are worse.

I don't even know what "worse" is anymore in the age of the psychopath in public office. Once they show their true colors and who they answer too, I don't give a damn about where to place them on a list of best looking piece of Shit.

[spudea]

If this is confirmed, his son and Kushner should be asked to resign from cabinet so investigations can be completed and all the facts can be outed in a neutral atmosphere.

An investigation into legal activity? What law was broken? What is the probable cause?

If you're suggesting this is an offshoot of the DNC leak and if any US citizens assisted the "Russians" in that illegal act, then the investigation SHOULD START AT THE DNC!! Not randomly pointing fingers at anyone that met with Russian nationals during 2016.

[timosman]

I don't even know what "worse" is anymore in the age of the psychopath in public office. Once they show their true colors and who they answer too, I don't give a damn about where to place them on a list of best looking piece of Shit.

Don't be naive. You are not going to win this game the way you are playing. Make them fight each other first.

[timosman]

Logged in for the first time in years just to point out there is no Crown Prosecutor position. Also the line that Goldstone was offering "information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia" backs up Trump Jr. and other firsthand accounts of the meeting that Trump Jr. asked her straight up what evidence she has of Hillary's illegal dealings with Russia, none was provided, the lawyer they'd never met before went into a pitch about Russian adoption laws, and everyone knew it was bullshit.

So yeah Jr. gets this wonky email claiming to have evidence of Russian collusion with Hillary. Any argument that he should've reported it right then is a naive. I've worked on campaigns and know how you get a thousand leads and 90 percent go nowhere. Goldstone's previous dealings with Jr. are why he said he entertained the meeting, and that seems more than reasonable. He was certainly getting hit up constantly by people claiming to have all sorts of dirt on Hillary, and some were probably setups like this meeting turned out to be. He got an email from an acquaintance with some connections claiming to have evidence of Hillary/Russian collusion. Why not follow up?

And after the fact no sense reporting it cause three's nothing to report. Doesn't excuse Trump Jr. from not mentioning this when asked if he'd "ever met with Russians" I guess, but I find the entire thing a neo-McCarthyist frenzy intended to push back against any attempt to leave Syria and justify our inflated military and intelligence spending and box Trump into a corner easing relations with Russia or removing the sanctions that are likely based on the lie that the DNC emails were hacked rather than leaked.

(PS- I hate Trump and voted Ron, Ron, and Rand/Gary in the last three pres elections.)

Thank you for logging in and providing a voice of reason. The Crown Prosecutor is a tell everybody is missing for some reason. It seems like this is the "get out of jail" card left there to be able to say, nah, we were just kidding. +rep

[nikcers]

Imagine Zippy working for the office of internet censorship.

Verizon is a company that just got hacked and got customer information leaked. You shouldn't listen to a company that can't protect your information about net neutrality. Call your senators. (http://fox8.com/2017/07/12/verizon-data-of-6-million-customers-leaked-online/) (fox8.com (https://www.reddit.com/domain/fox8.com/))submitted 34 minutes ago by chilidog17 (https://www.reddit.com/user/chilidog17)

[UWDude]

WOOOOWWW! FOR A SMOKING GUN... ....the media, which has BEEN WAITING FOR MONTHS FOR SOMETHING THIS DAMNING... ...has suddenly got a little quiet!

Why?

In a nutshell, this lawyer Trump Jr. met with.... ..to get dirt about How Russia was colluding ON BEHALF OF THE DNC..... ...has been exposed as a set-up. Her and Goldstone were both big Hillary fans.

By the way, she, (Veselnitskaya) does not speak English, so she had a translator with her. It is already pretty well known who the translator was.

But more interesting, Veselnitskaya's visa had expired, but the Obama administration gave her an emergency hold over, under Loretta Lynch.

A lawyer in the US who doesn't speak English, gets an emergency visa hold over?


Notice the press is backing off this one?


Now we have the meeting, that was set up, to get the FISA warrant. (notice the strange wording in the email, how it is lawyer-talk, using a fake Russian position, and saying it is related to the governments desire to help Putin, although the information was supposed to be about Russia colluding with Clinton?)

Big, BIG question is, did Jr. sniff out the set-up? If not, opportunity missed, but no big loss. There is still plenty of information and REAL evidence going around Sessions office right now about what a "sick guy!" Obama is.

If Trump jr. did sniff out the set-up, however, the nuclear weapon is gift wrapped and sitting under the DNC's Christmas tree.

Anyways... ..expect the media to drop this story now, and hope you forget all about it.


See, the media is going to win the hearsay, rumor and innuendo game. They have been putting up smoke everywhere and insisting there is a fire somewhere.

But just like the elections, Trump is going to win the reality. And America will see behind the smoke was nothing but mirrors.

[devil21]

And nothing will happen to anyone involved.

A big drama to keep you paying attention to stupid shit while society is dismantled under your noses. Young men are being turned into feminized basement dwellers, incapable of critical thought and self-sufficiency. Grandma and grandpa's life savings is being stolen back while they're slowly killed in retirement homes. You and your kids are being poisoned with GMOs to thin the herd as your useful life as debt slaves comes to an end. The cities are being turned into giant concentration camps.

But keep paying attention to Trump, cuz that's important. Your continued participation in the farce and failure to object is deemed your acceptance of the result.

[UWDude]

And nothing will happen to anyone involved.

I wouldn't be so sure of that.


A big drama to keep you paying attention to stupid $#@! while society is dismantled under your noses. Young men are being turned into feminized basement dwellers. Grandma and grandpa's life savings is being stolen back. You and your kids are being poisoned with GMOs. The cities are being turned into giant concentration camps.

Oh great leader. Your cynicism has fooled me into believing it is great wisdom. Please tell me how you plan to change all this!


But keep paying attention to Trump, cuz that's important.

Everybody, stop paying attention to Trump! Pay attention to devil21!! He is smarter! He is the new great leader! He brings change, and happiness, and he will make America great again!

[timosman]

And nothing will happen to anyone involved.

A big drama to keep you paying attention to stupid shit while society is dismantled under your noses. Young men are being turned into feminized basement dwellers, incapable of critical thought and self-sufficiency. Grandma and grandpa's life savings is being stolen back while they're slowly killed in retirement homes. You and your kids are being poisoned with GMOs to thin the herd as your useful life as debt slaves comes to an end. The cities are being turned into giant concentration camps.

But keep paying attention to Trump, cuz that's important. Your continued participation in the farce and failure to object is deemed your acceptance of the result.

Doom and gloom. Please visit the Personal prosperity forum instead of whining here and getting everybody upset. :cool:

[devil21]

Your failure to recognize the reality of the situation isn't my problem. Don't say you weren't warned.

[UWDude]

Your failure to recognize the reality of the situation isn't my problem. Don't say you weren't warned.

Oh great leader. Your cynicism has fooled me into believing it is great wisdom. Please tell me how you plan to change all this!

[timosman]

Your failure to recognize the reality of the situation isn't my problem. Don't say you weren't warned.

Ok Nostradamus, are you being paid to post this shit or you are generally an unhappy person?

[UWDude]

WOOOOWWW! FOR A SMOKING GUN... ....the media, which has BEEN WAITING FOR MONTHS FOR SOMETHING THIS DAMNING... ...has suddenly got a little quiet!

Why?

In a nutshell, this lawyer Trump Jr. met with.... ..to get dirt about How Russia was colluding ON BEHALF OF THE DNC..... ...has been exposed as a set-up. Her and Goldstone were both big Hillary fans.

By the way, she, (Veselnitskaya) does not speak English, so she had a translator with her. It is already pretty well known who the translator was.

But more interesting, Veselnitskaya's visa had expired, but the Obama administration gave her an emergency hold over, under Loretta Lynch.

A lawyer in the US who doesn't speak English, gets an emergency visa hold over?


Notice the press is backing off this one?


Now we have the meeting, that was set up, to get the FISA warrant. (notice the strange wording in the email, how it is lawyer-talk, using a fake Russian position, and saying it is related to the governments desire to help Putin, although the information was supposed to be about Russia colluding with Clinton?)

Big, BIG question is, did Jr. sniff out the set-up? If not, opportunity missed, but no big loss. There is still plenty of information and REAL evidence going around Sessions office right now about what a "sick guy!" Obama is.

If Trump jr. did sniff out the set-up, however, the nuclear weapon is gift wrapped and sitting under the DNC's Christmas tree.

Anyways... ..expect the media to drop this story now, and hope you forget all about it.


See, the media is going to win the hearsay, rumor and innuendo game. They have been putting up smoke everywhere and insisting there is a fire somewhere.

But just like the elections, Trump is going to win the reality. And America will see behind the smoke was nothing but mirrors.

I posted this for a reason, devil21.

See, there have been some shocks to people's perceptions of reality. A big one was Nov 8. Another one was May 9th.

Bigger ones are coming.

[anaconda]

NPR kept reporting all day today that it was a Russian "government" lawyer.

[anaconda]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/09/us/politics/trump-russia-kushner-manafort.html



More at link.

What does "Kremlin connected" mean in this case?

[UWDude]

NPR kept reporting all day today that it was a Russian "government" lawyer.

A Russian defense attorney... who hates Trump and Putin.

[devil21]

Ok Nostradamus, are you being paid to post this shit or you are generally an unhappy person?

It is noted who keeps these MSM fueled threads continually bumped. Also noted who has Jerry Springer avatars. Some of you just aren't very slick about your jobs to those with a trained eye. I remember when you had an Auschwitz avatar but then thought that was too blatant even and quickly changed it.

Do I detect some post sliding? Seems so.

[UWDude]

Do I detect some post sliding?

Don't flatter yourself. Your post wasn't worth sliding.


It is noted who keeps these MSM fueled threads continually bumped

Don't forget to pen your own name in, there devil21.

[devil21]

Don't flatter yourself. Your post wasn't worth sliding.

Then you won't mind if I repost it then.

And nothing will happen to anyone involved.

A big drama to keep you paying attention to stupid shit while society is dismantled under your noses. Young men are being turned into feminized basement dwellers, incapable of critical thought and self-sufficiency. Grandma and grandpa's life savings is being stolen back while they're slowly killed in retirement homes. You and your kids are being poisoned with GMOs to thin the herd as your useful life as debt slaves comes to an end. The cities are being turned into giant concentration camps.

But keep paying attention to Trump, cuz that's important. Your continued participation in the farce and failure to object is deemed your acceptance of the result.

[UWDude]

Then you won't mind if I repost it then.

And nothing will happen to anyone involved.

A big drama to keep you paying attention to stupid $#@! while society is dismantled under your noses. Young men are being turned into feminized basement dwellers, incapable of critical thought and self-sufficiency. Grandma and grandpa's life savings is being stolen back while they're slowly killed in retirement homes. You and your kids are being poisoned with GMOs to thin the herd as your useful life as debt slaves comes to an end. The cities are being turned into giant concentration camps.

But keep paying attention to Trump, cuz that's important. Your continued participation in the farce and failure to object is deemed your acceptance of the result.

and you won't mind if I repost this then:

WOOOOWWW! FOR A SMOKING GUN... ....the media, which has BEEN WAITING FOR MONTHS FOR SOMETHING THIS DAMNING... ...has suddenly got a little quiet!

Why?

In a nutshell, this lawyer Trump Jr. met with.... ..to get dirt about How Russia was colluding ON BEHALF OF THE DNC..... ...has been exposed as a set-up. Her and Goldstone were both big Hillary fans.

By the way, she, (Veselnitskaya) does not speak English, so she had a translator with her. It is already pretty well known who the translator was.

But more interesting, Veselnitskaya's visa had expired, but the Obama administration gave her an emergency hold over, under Loretta Lynch.

A lawyer in the US who doesn't speak English, gets an emergency visa hold over?


Notice the press is backing off this one?


Now we have the meeting, that was set up, to get the FISA warrant. (notice the strange wording in the email, how it is lawyer-talk, using a fake Russian position, and saying it is related to the governments desire to help Putin, although the information was supposed to be about Russia colluding with Clinton?)

Big, BIG question is, did Jr. sniff out the set-up? If not, opportunity missed, but no big loss. There is still plenty of information and REAL evidence going around Sessions office right now about what a "sick guy!" Obama is.

If Trump jr. did sniff out the set-up, however, the nuclear weapon is gift wrapped and sitting under the DNC's Christmas tree.

Anyways... ..expect the media to drop this story now, and hope you forget all about it.


See, the media is going to win the hearsay, rumor and innuendo game. They have been putting up smoke everywhere and insisting there is a fire somewhere.

But just like the elections, Trump is going to win the reality. And America will see behind the smoke was nothing but mirrors.

[anaconda]

Why are Democrats so afraid of the TRUTH?

Sometimes this stuff sticks. Worth a try I suppose. But there is risk of blow back.

[devil21]

Sometimes this stuff sticks. Worth a try I suppose. But there is risk of blow back.

LOL you're waaaaay too obvious, quoting random posts from pages ago with pointless replies. Post sliding 101.

[anaconda]

It is already pretty well known who the translator was.


Who was the translator?

[devil21]

Who was the translator?

And he keeps on goin'!

[anaconda]

LOL you're waaaaay too obvious, quoting random posts from pages ago with pointless replies. Post sliding 101.

I am embarrassed to admit I posted without reading very much of the thread.

[anaconda]

And he keeps on goin'!

Didn't read thread much. I need to be slapped.

[devil21]

I am embarrassed to admit I posted without reading very much of the thread.

You should be embarrassed. Your post sliding isn't even subtle.


And nothing will happen to anyone involved.

A big drama to keep you paying attention to stupid $#@! while society is dismantled under your noses. Young men are being turned into feminized basement dwellers, incapable of critical thought and self-sufficiency. Grandma and grandpa's life savings is being stolen back while they're slowly killed in retirement homes. You and your kids are being poisoned with GMOs to thin the herd as your useful life as debt slaves comes to an end. The cities are being turned into giant concentration camps.

But keep paying attention to Trump, cuz that's important. Your continued participation in the farce and failure to object is deemed your acceptance of the result.

[UWDude]

You should be embarrassed. Your post sliding isn't even subtle.

Your cynicism is getting the better of you.

I didn't include your ninja edit of addition of the same thing you have posted three times, not because I am post sliding, but because I don't feel like rewarding your thread spamming. (which I must note ironically it is keeping this MSM fueled thread continually bumped).

[UWDude]

Who was the translator?

He may become famous, he may not. Hard to say, and nobody is completely sure right now who it is, but it certainly is not a household name.

Basically Veselnitskaya worked on what Magnitsky was working on, which started the American sanctions. (Magnistky uncovered some $230 Million in Russian corruption, then died in police custody). It is assumed her translator was another lawyer who worked on that case, and a couple others with her, including one with Preet Bharara, (who was fired by trump, then hired by Meuller for the Russia collusion investigation).

[devil21]

And nothing will happen to anyone involved.

A big drama to keep you paying attention to stupid $#@! while society is dismantled under your noses. Young men are being turned into feminized basement dwellers, incapable of critical thought and self-sufficiency. Grandma and grandpa's life savings is being stolen back while they're slowly killed in retirement homes. You and your kids are being poisoned with GMOs to thin the herd as your useful life as debt slaves comes to an end. The cities are being turned into giant concentration camps.

But keep paying attention to Trump, cuz that's important. Your continued participation in the farce and failure to object is deemed your acceptance of the result.

Get it? Because nothing ever happens to CLUB MEMBERS. It's all a fucking play to keep you distracted while they loot the entire country of everything of value and treat you and yours as mere resources to be exploited.

Lock her up? Naa, the Clintons are good people! Only 50 or so dead people directly connected to their drug empire. Minor compared to the dead Iraqis, dead Syrians, dead Yemenis and dead Palestinians so no biggie, right? Trump, President of the United States, his family is thick as thieves with NY jewish mafia going back 80 years and partys with the Clintons and dines with the NY Cardinal between them. Nothing will happen to any of them because they all appoint each other to power positions and laugh at all the little people thinking "Lock her up" meant anything other than a stupid campaign slogan. And now some even more stupid story about Jr. and some bubble-headed T&A Russian attorney meeting for a shorter period than it takes me to shit and shower. Get fuckin' real.

You want some "light"? There, the devil just gave it to you. You're enlightened. You're welcome. And what pisses me off the most is you people aren't even good at it. Sloppy, obvious and lack any sort of artful touch. OTOH, what shills participating in this charade fail to realize that when the hammer comes down YOU are the first to be eliminated because you know too much. Read a history book, jesus. You're setting the stage for your own demise.

[anaconda]

You should be embarrassed. Your post sliding isn't even subtle.


I searched the internets for the meaning of post sliding but couldn't find anything.

[anaconda]

A big drama to keep you paying attention to stupid $#@! while society is dismantled under your noses. Young men are being turned into feminized basement dwellers, incapable of critical thought and self-sufficiency. Grandma and grandpa's life savings is being stolen back while they're slowly killed in retirement homes. You and your kids are being poisoned with GMOs to thin the herd as your useful life as debt slaves comes to an end. The cities are being turned into giant concentration camps.



I agree with all of these statements. I only said that sometimes mudslinging works in the war of politics but that sometimes it backfires.

[UWDude]

And nothing will happen to anyone involved.

A big drama to keep you paying attention to stupid $#@! while society is dismantled under your noses. Young men are being turned into feminized basement dwellers, incapable of critical thought and self-sufficiency. Grandma and grandpa's life savings is being stolen back while they're slowly killed in retirement homes. You and your kids are being poisoned with GMOs to thin the herd as your useful life as debt slaves comes to an end. The cities are being turned into giant concentration camps.

But keep paying attention to Trump, cuz that's important. Your continued participation in the farce and failure to object is deemed your acceptance of the result.

Get it? Because nothing ever happens to CLUB MEMBERS. It's all a $#@!ing play to keep you distracted while they loot the entire country of everything of value and treat you and yours as mere resources to be exploited.

Lock her up? Naa, the Clintons are good people! Only 50 or so dead people directly connected to their drug empire. Minor compared to the dead Iraqis, dead Syrians, dead Yemenis and dead Palestinians so no biggie, right? Trump, President of the United States, his family is thick as thieves with NY jewish mafia going back 80 years and partys with the Clintons and dines with the NY Cardinal between them. Nothing will happen to any of them because they all appoint each other to power positions and laugh at all the little people thinking "Lock her up" meant anything other than a stupid campaign slogan. And now some even more stupid story about Jr. and some bubble-headed T&A Russian attorney meeting for a shorter period than it takes me to $#@! and shower. Get $#@!in' real.

You want some "light"? There, the devil just gave it to you. You're enlightened. You're welcome. And what pisses me off the most is you people aren't even good at it. Sloppy, obvious and lack any sort of artful touch.

Somebody wants attention.

[UWDude]

Somebody wants attention.

In the meantime, the MSM, one of the greatest enemies of the people of the world for the past 30 years... ...is on it's knees, about to be destroyed.

While devil21 tries to convince you nothing is happening. You can see with your own eyes at least the media being destroyed.

Will there also be convictions, shackles and jumpsuits? I don't know. But the media is not going to live through this and come out as anything more than a reality tv show. Nobody will believe anything it says by the time Trump is done give them the beating of a lifetime. And you can take that to the bank.

[devil21]

In the meantime, the MSM, one of the greatest enemies of the people of the world for the past 30 years... ...is on it's knees, about to be destroyed.

While devil21 tries to convince you nothing is happening. You can see with your own eyes at least the media being destroyed.

Will there also be convictions, shackles and jumpsuits? I don't know. But the media is not going to live through this and come out as anything more than a reality tv show. Nobody will believe anything it says by the time Trump is done give them the beating of a lifetime. And you can take that to the bank.

I'm sure they'll cry into their million dollar paychecks over it. A lot is happening to the average family. But you're right that nothing will happen to the criminals.

[UWDude]

I'm sure they'll cry into their million dollar paychecks over it.

I don't care what they do with their money. They can cry in it, they can have sex with three babes at once in it. I don't care. All I care is their influence on mass thought ends. And it is ending. This Russia thing will be their ultimate demise. The election predictions being 100% wrong was the first wake up call to the American public that something was not right. This Russia thing will probably be dragged out until early 2018, but it will NEVER make it to 2020. There simply isn't even enough circumstantial evidence for that. It is a total dead end, because it is simply NOT TRUE.

[devil21]

I don't care what they do with their money. They can cry in it, they can have sex with three babes at once in it. I don't care. All I care is their influence on mass thought ends. And it is ending. This Russia thing will be their ultimate demise. The election predictions being 100% wrong was the first wake up call to the American public that something was not right. This Russia thing will probably be dragged out until early 2018, but it will NEVER make it to 2020. There simply isn't even enough circumstantial evidence for that. It is a total dead end, because it is simply NOT TRUE.

The Russia shit that they created will be their demise? Shocker! That's called the Hegelian Dialectic and of course the solution will be censored, openly state-controlled media to save you from fake news. Have you learned NOTHING since 2010???


Here's what "election predictions" are worth:

https://ada-angeles-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/picture/article_image/38225/banner_Screen_shot_from_2016_Al_Smith_Dinner_inclu ding_Hillary_Clinton_Cardinal_Timothy_Dolan_and_Do nald_Trump_Screenshot_NY_Times_YouTube_video_CNA.j pg

http://cdn.newsday.com/polopoly_fs/1.12472069.1476839681!/httpImage/image.jpeg_gen/derivatives/landscape_1280/image.jpeg

https://static01.********/images/promos/politics/blog/20081016smith.533.jpg

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/journalstar.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/8/96/896dea25-5575-5b5d-aaf1-a2f37d95c6d8/58093b768b29a.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C1111

https://i1.wp.com/johnnycirucci.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/carter-john-ohara-reagan-at-the-1980-alfred-smith-cropped.jpg?w=708

[anaconda]

I don't care what they do with their money. They can cry in it, they can have sex with three babes at once in it. I don't care. All I care is their influence on mass thought ends. And it is ending. This Russia thing will be their ultimate demise. The election predictions being 100% wrong was the first wake up call to the American public that something was not right. This Russia thing will probably be dragged out until early 2018, but it will NEVER make it to 2020. There simply isn't even enough circumstantial evidence for that. It is a total dead end, because it is simply NOT TRUE.

The media learned no lessons from being exposed for their FAKE NEWS during the 2016 election cycle. They waited about two days and then doubled down. I hope you are right but I don't see a flap over a 20 minute meeting topping the U.S. Presidential election bias for the demise of the MSM.

[goldenequity]

hahaha... she sure got around...

Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya connected to John McCain in stunning photo (she sure gets around) (http://theduran.com/russian-lawyer-natalia-veselnitskaya-connected-to-john-mccain-in-stunning-photo-exposure/)

[UWDude]

The Russia $#@! that they created will be their demise? Shocker! That's called the Hegelian Dialectic

No it isn't. The media is going to be mortally wounded.


of course the solution will be censored, openly state-controlled media to save you from fake news


The only censorship I have seen has been corporate left-wing censorship.

You still think like the dinosaurs.

You still do not see what is happening.

[r3volution 3.0]

Logged in for the first time in years just to point out there is no Crown Prosecutor position.

Goldstone's from England, where the state prosecutors are called "crown prosecutors." I assume he was referencing the Russian equivalent, as an American might mistakenly refer to British prosecutors are district attorneys. In any event, this doesn't change the fact that Goldstone was claiming to represent the Russian government, and Jr agreed to meet him on the basis of those claims.


Goldstone's previous dealings with Jr. are why he said he entertained the meeting, and that seems more than reasonable. He was certainly getting hit up constantly by people claiming to have all sorts of dirt on Hillary, and some were probably setups like this meeting turned out to be. He got an email from an acquaintance with some connections claiming to have evidence of Hillary/Russian collusion. Why not follow up?

Because Goldstone claimed to be representing a foreign government.

[r3volution 3.0]

Ex Soviet Counterintelligence Officer Says He Attended Trump Jr Meeting (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/14/donald-trump-jr-meeting-russian-lobbyist-rinat-akhmetshin)


Donald Trump’s denial of collusion with Russia (https://www.theguardian.com/world/russia) suffered yet another blow on Friday when it emerged this his son failed to disclose the presence of a former Soviet military officer at a now notorious meeting.

Rinat Akhmetshin – who claims he served in a counterintelligence unit but never formally trained as a spy – told the Associated Press that he attended the meeting with Donald Trump Jr (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/donald-trump-jr), which billed as part of a Russian government effort to boost Trump’s election campaign.

Now a pro-Moscow lobbyist, Akhmetshin dismisses reports that he has ties to Russian intelligence agencies as a “smear campaign”. Earlier this year he was described by the chairman of the Senate judiciary committee as an expert in “subversive political influence operations often involving disinformation and propaganda”.

In an interview with the AP, Akhmetshin said he accompanied Russian lawyer (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/12/who-is-natalia-veselnitskaya-low-level-lawyer-or-kremlin-power-broker)Natalia Veselnitskaya (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/12/who-is-natalia-veselnitskaya-low-level-lawyer-or-kremlin-power-broker) to Trump Tower in New York where they met an interpreter who also participated in the meeting in June 2016. He told the news agency he had learned about the meeting only that day when Veselnitskaya asked him to attend, and turned up in jeans and a T-shirt.

The AP reported: “During the meeting, Akhmetshin said Veselnitskaya brought with her a plastic folder with printed-out documents that detailed what she believed was the flow of illicit funds to the Democratic National Committee (DNC). Veselnitskaya presented the contents of the documents to the Trump associates and suggested that making the information public could help the Trump campaign, he said.

[dannno]

Ex Soviet Counterintelligence Officer Says He Attended Trump Jr Meeting (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/14/donald-trump-jr-meeting-russian-lobbyist-rinat-akhmetshin)

The AP reported: “During the meeting, Akhmetshin said Veselnitskaya brought with her a plastic folder with printed-out documents that detailed what she believed was the flow of illicit funds to the Democratic National Committee (DNC). Veselnitskaya presented the contents of the documents to the Trump associates and suggested that making the information public could help the Trump campaign, he said.

So, the media doesn't care about the corrupt DNC, they care about Donald Trump Jr. meeting with a Russian.

This is, and has been, completely retarded.

[r3volution 3.0]

So, the media doesn't care about the corrupt DNC, they care about Donald Trump Jr. meeting with a Russian.

That's correct. And this changes the fact that Trump colluded with the Russians how?

[dannno]

That's correct. And this changes the fact that Trump colluded with the Russians how?

First of all, it's the media, and I don't actually believe any of it.

But let's pretend in your make believe fairly land for a minute that it is true. What's wrong with letting the truth come out? Who cares how that happens?

If the Russians made up something, or framed somebody, that's one thing. But if they are releasing legitimate information about the corruption of US officials, then shouldn't we be thanking them for making our election more transparent?

I mean, to me, it seems like all these allegations against Russia are actually something we should be thanking them for, it is very important to have transparent government and elections. Since the media wasn't doing its job, the Russians allegedly stepped in and helped out. That is the story the US media is telling, if you read between the lines, and that is why they are fucking whining cucks and they anybody who roles along with their narrative is a fucking idiot and a toolbag. Trump derangement syndrome is the most common cause of mental retardation these days. The media is basically admitting they can't do their fucking job and the Russians had to do it for them. Fuck them.

[Schifference]

Hillary and Bill are so much smarter than Trump. No Clinton would ever admit to anything that could be interpreted as wrongdoing.

[dannno]

Hillary and Bill are so much smarter than Trump. No Clinton would ever admit to anything that could be interpreted as wrongdoing.

Uh, no, Hillary and Bill are protected by the elite class. Don Jr. is doing just fine. The Trumps are way more intelligent than the Clintons, the Clintons are toolbag puppets. Don Jr. doesn't care if people keep repeating this retarded narrative, like I said above it just makes the media look bad.

[r3volution 3.0]

First of all, it's the media, and I don't actually believe any of it.

This includes Jr's twitter feed?


But let's pretend in your make believe fairly land for a minute that it is true.

The make believe fairly tale based on Jr own tweets. Okay, let's "pretend."


What's wrong with letting the truth come out? Who cares how that happens? If the Russians made up something, or framed somebody, that's one thing. But if they are releasing legitimate information about the corruption of US officials, then shouldn't we be thanking them for making our election more transparent? I mean, to me, it seems like all these allegations against Russia are actually something we should be thanking them for, it is very important to have transparent government and elections. Since the media wasn't doing its job, the Russians allegedly stepped in and helped out. That is the story the US media is telling, if you read between the lines, and that is why they are fucking cucks and they anybody who roles along with their narrative is a fucking toolbag.

I see you received a new talking points memo this morning.

Anyway, as for me, I don't really care substantively about the meeting with the Russians. My interest in the Russian story is that it causes Trump maximum harm and expedites his exit from the American political scene. That said, most Americans feel rather differently, not so much about Trump needing to go, of course, but about the importance of an American political candidate facilitating a foreign state's attempt to influence American elections for the purpose of advancing its own foreign policy objectives. That sort of behavior is generally frowned upon, you know.

[dannno]

This includes Jr's twitter feed?


884759076739178500
884757206557753344



I see you received a new talking points memo this morning.

Anyway, as for me, I don't really care substantively about the meeting with the Russians. My interest in the Russian story is that it causes Trump maximum harm and expedites his exit from the American political scene.

Right, that is Trump derangement syndrome. You are willing to sacrifice everything including your own credibility at the off chance that Trump might have to leave office. That is why we are all sitting back laughing. Good luck with that.

[Swordsmyth]

Anyway, as for me, I don't really care substantively about the meeting with the Russians. My interest in the Russian story is that it causes Trump maximum harm and expedites his exit from the American political scene.
Why? do you think he will be replaced by someone better?



That said, most Americans feel rather differently, not so much about Trump needing to go, of course, but about the importance of an American political candidate facilitating a foreign state's attempt to influence American elections for the purpose of advancing its own foreign policy objectives. That sort of behavior is generally frowned upon, you know.
No it is not.

Report: Five Times Democrats Sought Russia’s Help with U.S. Elections (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?512874-Report-Five-Times-Democrats-Sought-Russia%E2%80%99s-Help-with-U-S-Elections)

[dannno]

That said, most Americans feel rather differently, not so much about Trump needing to go, of course, but about the importance of an American political candidate facilitating a foreign state's attempt to influence American elections for the purpose of advancing its own foreign policy objectives. That sort of behavior is generally frowned upon, you know.

And you don't see why that is completely retarded?

Have you voted yet?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?512872-Which-Countries-Meddled-in-the-2016-US-Pres-Election

[r3volution 3.0]

Right, that is Trump derangement syndrome.

It is a cold, unemotional appraisal of the political situation. I'm a libertarian; Trump is bad for libertarianism, both in terms of policy and in terms of the internal dynamics of the GOP; hence I want him gone. Very simple.


You are willing to sacrifice everything including your own credibility at the off chance that Trump might have to leave office. That is why we are all sitting back laughing. Good luck with that.

You'll have to Trumpsplain that one for me.


And you don't see why that is completely retarded?

It's not retarded if for those who believe in national sovereignty (I don't, of course).

But you do, so it's a tad strange that it doesn't bother you.


Have you voted yet?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?512872-Which-Countries-Meddled-in-the-2016-US-Pres-Election

An opportunity to vote! I'm on it!


Why? do you think he will be replaced by someone better?

Probably not, but the odds of a libertarian winning the GOP nomination will improve with the collapse of the Trump faction.


No it is not.

Report: Five Times Democrats Sought Russia’s Help with U.S. Elections (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?512874-Report-Five-Times-Democrats-Sought-Russia%E2%80%99s-Help-with-U-S-Elections)

I'm not sure how the link is supposed to substantiate your statement.

[dannno]

Right, that is Trump derangement syndrome. You are willing to sacrifice everything including your own credibility at the off chance that Trump might have to leave office. That is why we are all sitting back laughing. Good luck with that.

You'll have to Trumpsplain that one for me.



Report: Five Times Democrats Sought Russia’s Help with U.S. Elections (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?512874-Report-Five-Times-Democrats-Sought-Russia%E2%80%99s-Help-with-U-S-Elections)

I'm not sure how the link is supposed to substantiate your statement.

There.

That's it. That's my last hint. If you can't figure out the puzzle, or what you are doing wrong, then I'm glad you are on the wrong side of history because if you were actually smart and on the wrong side of history, that could be detrimental.

[r3volution 3.0]

There.

That's it. That's my last hint. If you can't figure out the puzzle, or what you are doing wrong, then I'm glad you are on the wrong side of history because if you were actually smart and on the wrong side of history, that could be detrimental.

Is there a Stef video that further elaborates your thesis?

[dannno]

Is there a Stef video that further elaborates your thesis?

It's pretty simple. The media is going all-in on this Trump/Russia nonsense when it really just makes them, the establishment and the left look bad because they are hypocrites and it is so blatant that it also makes them look really retarded.

If you can't see why that is bad, then you probably have a sub-90 IQ.

If you want to sleep with hypocrites, that's fine, it's your decision.

[r3volution 3.0]

It's pretty simple. The media is going all-in on this Trump/Russia nonsense when it really just makes them, the establishment and the left look bad because they are hypocrites and it is so blatant that it also makes them look really retarded.

Have you noticed that the media attacking Trump are DNC media, while the media defending him are RNC media?

If so, that strikes you as a new or unusual situation..?


If you can't see why that is bad, then you probably have a sub-90 IQ.

Stef's turn toward racialism has had a precious effect on his followers.

[AuH20]

Trump's connections to Israel are the real story as opposed to all this manufactured 'deep state' garbage utilized to obscure the Seth Rich fiasco.

[dannno]

Have you noticed that the media attacking Trump are DNC media, while the media defending him are RNC media?


Both are a joke. The only serious media is Mike Cernovich, infowars and some of the alternative media.

[r3volution 3.0]

Both are a joke. The only serious media is Mike Cernovich, infowars and some of the alternative media.

The point is that "they" are not "all" attacking Trump, in some grand conspiracy against this "outsider."

Rather, the part of "they" currently out of power are attacking a President of the other party - i.e. business as usual.

There's no important difference between the media's treatment of Trump, Obama, or Bush.

He is "they."

...and Infowars is simply a Trump propaganda outlet, he's Rush Limbaugh 2.0.

...can't speak to the other one, but if you like it, I assume it's the same.

[Marenco]

http://www.sfreporter.com/santafe/imgs/media.images/22174/JunkFood_NewsBag.widea.jpg

[Swordsmyth]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Swordsmyth http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=6497793#post6497793)

No it is not.

Report: Five Times Democrats Sought Russia’s Help with U.S. Elections (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?512874-Report-Five-Times-Democrats-Sought-Russia%E2%80%99s-Help-with-U-S-Elections)



I'm not sure how the link is supposed to substantiate your statement.

The press and the public did not respond to the cited instances with overwhelming condemnation even though most of them were more scandalous.
The public does not care about Jr. doing opposition research. Truth is truth no matter the source.

[enhanced_deficit]

The meeting was also attended by the president’s campaign chairman at the time, Paul J. Manafort, as well as by the president’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner. Mr. Manafort and Mr. Kushner recently disclosed the meeting, though not its content, in confidential government documents described to The New York Times.

Does this mean end of government careers of Trump's son and SIL Kushner?



Calls for Kushner to resign (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?512900-Calls-for-Kushner-to-resign&)


Too soon to say if he would step down but if he did, probably would not be a major blow to Israeli settlers movement:

Dem senator calls for Kushner to resign from White House

By Olivia Beavers - 07/12/17

http://thehill.com/sites/default/files/styles/thumb_small_article/public/blogs/bannon.kushner.jpg?itok=hUn1xCC8



Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) called Wednesday for Jared Kushner, President Trump's senior adviser and son-in-law, to resign from his White House post in the wake of revelations about a campaign meeting with a Russian lawyer who promised damaging information about Hillary Clinton.
Murphy said Kushner misled Trump and Vice President Pence, causing them to state falsely that no associates from their campaign communicated with the Russians.


Blumenthal: ‘Jared Kushner ought to resign’
By John Bowden - 07/13/17



Related

Is Jared Kushner Punishing Qatar Over a Soured Real-Estate Deal?
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/...-666-fifth-ave (http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/07/jared-kushner-qatar-666-fifth-ave)

[UWDude]

the fact that Trump colluded with the Russians how?

Any evidence to back up this fact?

Of course not.


My interest in the Russian story is that it causes Trump maximum harm and expedites his exit from the American political scene.


Your interest should be in the truth.

[Driftar]

There's no important difference between the media's treatment of Trump, Obama, or Bush.


I see what you are saying, and when it comes to issues I believe you are right, but you are wrong when it comes to the Russian conspiracy hysteria.

On the rare occasion the news reports actual policy instead of Red Scare 2.0, reporters fall as one would expect. For example, when Trump bombed Syria, the neocons in the media celebrated.

On the Russian bullshit, it's the corporate media echoing the deep state, trying to at worst cripple Trump and create gridlock and at best take him out in favor of neocon Pence, who would lose to an establishment democrat in 2020. Even though Trump is an authoritarian populist with little in common with myself or most here, this is why we should care about the false Russian narrative and call out the lies and misinformation loudly and often.

1) It's being used to prop up the DNC establishment. In a two party system, having more independent minded outsider candidates win primaries is a good thing. The DNC establishment is extremely neoconservative on foreign policy and wishy-washy on criminal justice reform. This last election provided hard evidence the democrat primaries are rigged for the establishment, they're fighting a serious lawsuit right now, and the Red Scare craze has overshadowed the entire story to almost all non activist democrats and some who even pay attention, preventing positive reforms.

2) Foreign policy and destroying the viability of non interventionists candidates. The Russian conspiracy theories have boxed Trump in on foreign policy. Sanctions are an act of war, and if Trump even talks of lifting a fraction of them, he will be branded a Putin Puppet by all democrats and many republicans. Russia isn't going anywhere in Syria, and the second wisest thing to do next to leaving would be to work with Russia. We're not leaving unfortunately, and neither is Russia, but if Trump proposes a full scale Russian alliance to combat ISIS and some of the other radical groups we've armed, he will be branded Putin's puppet. Russia can and should be a foreign policy partner on the Middle East as a whole and on North Korea. In the current climate, with democrats branding them Nazi Germany 2.0, tensions seem unlikely to mend.

The conspiracy theory not only boxes Trump into a corner on Russian foreign policy, but future candidates for who knows how many cycles. Imagine democrats and republicans in 2018 scrambling to demonstrate they aren't "Russian agents" by calling for more sanctions and military strikes on Russia as Paul Begala has suggested. Non interventionists will stand no chance.

3) Expanding the acceptance of FISA courts and unconstitutional survielence to catch "Russian spies"

4) Tainting Wikileaks and other allies of liberty. By reporting Wikileaks as "Russian connected" and reporting the DNC leak as a "Russian state hack" despite releasing no objective evidence and despite the fact no intelligence agency examined the DNC server, the establishment has a viable future strategy to discredit other journalists and whistle-blowers by accusing them of "Russian links." Don't like Glenn Greenwald? He's a Russian! Have corruption revealed in an email leak? It was a Russian hacker!

5) If Trump goes down, the establishment has a lock on the next few cycles. Hillary will be perceived as the "real winner" of 2016 and possibly be inspired to run again. By all accounts she wants to. No Rand Paul or Justice Amash going anywhere in 2024 either, as average republican voters probably aren't going to want to take a chance on a wild card again so soon.

So in short, the two things i like about Trump, that he took out the Bush and Clinton dynasties and that he was open to easing our strained relationship with Russia, are both in danger of being reversed by the "Russia hacked the election" lie. Plenty of reasons to care, and you don't have to compromise your libertarian principles or support Trump or support Trump to realize what's going on and call out all the bullshit with the Crowdstrike report and the false attacks against Wikileaks and the people labeling anyone who has serious questions about the claims Crowdstrike made (and has walked back on in a few instances).

[Swordsmyth]

Trump, Jr. Meeting With Russian Lawyer Undermines Media’s Collusion Narrative (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?512895-Trump-Jr-Meeting-With-Russian-Lawyer-Undermines-Media%E2%80%99s-Collusion-Narrative)