St. Louis To Lower Minimum Wage.

[angelatc]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/minimum-wage-set-to-drop-in-missouri/ar-BBDP27V?OCID=ansmsnnews11

Actual small business owner:


Amer Hawatmeh's family-owned restaurant in downtown St. Louis is struggling.

Along with rising sales taxes, and meat prices, a minimum wage hike to $10 an hour two months ago made it expensive to stay open. So he's cut back from five to two days a week for lunch. His hamburgers are smaller, his entrees pricier and his customers scarcer.

Hawatmeh believes it's not the government, but a combination of worker determination and customer demand that should set the correct wage.

"That's how I built myself," he said. "That's how I'm teaching my children to build themselves. Don't ask what do I get, ask what can I do."


The Governor, who signed off on legislation that took away St. Louis' ability to set their own minimum wage, thus forcing the roll-back:

Missouri Gov. Eric Greitens agrees. Next month, the minimum wage will return to $7.70 an hour -- ten bucks an hour was a mistake, he says.

"Despite what you hear from liberals, it will take money out of people's pockets," Greitens said.

Local economics expert unskilled labor:


Wanda Roberts, a minimum wage worker in St. Louis, said the new $10 wage brought in an extra $400 a month and helped the local economy.

"If we're making $10 an hour, we're going to go right back out and spend that money," Roberts said.

Sigh. Wanda, Wanda Wanda....

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

But how will they buy their weed, cable, and Boones Farm Wine? :confused:

[angelatc]

But how will they buy their weed, cable, and Boones Farm Wine? :confused:

Yeah - it's not like they have to feed their kids.

[euphemia]

People act like when they work for $10 an hour that they actually get $10 an hour. Don't they look at their checks?

[Origanalist]

People act like when they work for $10 an hour that they actually get $10 an hour. Don't they look at their checks?

Math is hard, and it's a symbol of white oppression.

[TheTexan]

Lower minimum wage? I guess, they just want people to die

[Schifference]

The business owner in the OP claims to know something about running a small business. I think he is not a good businessman. The last thing I would ever do would be to make something smaller. Customers do not like it when size or quality are changed. Once a place is not as good as it once was I don't go back especially if the size got smaller and the price went up. It would have been smarter for him to keep the original size and charge the amount necessary and offer the junior version for less money.

[Zippyjuan]

The business owner in the OP claims to know something about running a small business. I think he is not a good businessman. The last thing I would ever do would be to make something smaller. Customers do not like it when size or quality are changed. Once a place is not as good as it once was I don't go back especially if the size got smaller and the price went up. It would have been smarter for him to keep the original size and charge the amount necessary and offer the junior version for less money.

He made things smaller AND raised his prices. Not a good business move. Pick one. Customers will head elsewhere. Unless your food is amazing- and you can get a burger anyplace.


His hamburgers are smaller, his entrees pricier and his customers scarcer.


Two years ago he was blaming things on new competition from a new shopping complex at the baseball stadium: http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/10/16/washington-avenue-resturant-group-sounding-warning-about-lack-of-business/


ST. LOUIS (KMOX) – Ballpark Village is blamed for a major drop off in revenue along the entertainment district along Washington Avenue.

“Business is not created, it just moves. And everything is getting sucked into the black hole. That’s what Ballpark Village is.”

General manager of Copia restaurant, near 11th and Washington, Amer Hawatmeh says with Ballpark Village taking in millions every month – $45 million in revenue last month – it’s easy to see why business along Washington Avenue have lost half of their revenue this year.

“On the weekends, you used to look out the windows of any of these spaces, and you look on Washington Avenue, and it was a thriving, thriving downtown on Washington Ave.,” he says. “Now, you come down here on the weekends, and you can count the amount of people on the street.”

Hawatmeh says the Washington Avenue restaurant group reports a 50 percent drop in gross revenue since Ballpark Village opened.

“I know at least seven or eight places that are, at any given time, they’re going to decide to stop taking money out of their right pocket to put it in their left pocket to keep their businesses alive,” Hawatmeh says.

Copia may stop serving lunch because it’s had so few customers in recent months, depending on how things go after the baseball season.

So he cut back on lunch even before the wages were changed which was just two months ago.

From the OP:

So he's cut back from five to two days a week for lunch.


Doesn't look like a minimum wage burger joint:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOpYXb-NsvQ

[oyarde]

I would just raise prices with a note that said any price increases are due to new govt mandates , then I would make Danke work twice as hard .

[parocks]

As I understand it, St Louis is a shthole, and shthole cities generally don't benefit as much from minimum wage hikes. The economy isn't hot, rents aren't skyrocketing, and people making minimum wage can survive adequately. Raising the minimum wage does typically cost jobs, and in places like St Louis, jobs are a little bit more scarce than in places that don't suck. Most cities have arrow pointed down, but there are cities where arrow is pointed up, where jobs are plentiful, but rents are expensive, prices are high across the board, and people making minimum wage can't survive as easily, for them, minimum wage hikes can work. On a state level, rural areas are hurt by minimum wage hikes, urban areas benefited. Maine's minimum wage will go up to $12. Not going to help Rural Maine. Businesses will close. Businesses that sell to minimum wage workers will benefit, businesses that sell to old people primarily will suffer. If there's a business in Maine that actually makes something that is sold outside of Maine, and is competing with a business in a state with the Fed minimum, the Maine business is at a disadvantage.

[angelatc]

Wow! The Blue Coats are here en masse over this small loss.

[angelatc]

He made things smaller AND raised his prices. Not a good business move. Pick one. Customers will head elsewhere. Unless your food is amazing- and you can get a burger anyplace.


Yeah ....


No.

[Keith and stuff]

Maine's minimum wage will go up to $12. Not going to help Rural Maine. Businesses will close. Businesses that sell to minimum wage workers will benefit, businesses that sell to old people primarily will suffer. If there's a business in Maine that actually makes something that is sold outside of Maine, and is competing with a business in a state with the Fed minimum, the Maine business is at a disadvantage.

This is great news for everyone in New Hampshire. The more states around NH increase the minimum wage, and they are all doing it, the better it is for NH. NH eliminated the state minimum wage and we have the best economy in the Eastern United States. Economic freedom improves quality of life.

[helmuth_hubener]

NH eliminated the state minimum wage and we have the best economy in the Eastern United States. Economic freedom improves quality of life.

:rolleyes:
Either way it's an irrelevance
For a white state with no immigrants.
Banning things that no one does
'Tis empty posing. Power buzz.

[Keith and stuff]

:rolleyes:
Either way it's an irrelevance
For a white state with no immigrants.
Banning things that no one does
'Tis empty posing. Power buzz.

I was never good at poetry. Every state in the Northeast is increasing the minimum wage. Heck, most states are. Yet NH did the exact opposite and eliminated it for most folks. That was a huge message to the business community and logical people everywhere. When it comes to improving the economy and attracting businesses, signaling is very important.

[nikcers]

Getting rid of the minimum wage won't fix the ballooning labor costs in the US which are caused by our monetary policy. The establishment has taken an axe to american industry, every functioning part of our economy gets an axe taken to it because it has to prop up the mal investment. I don't see this helping the average worker or even the top 10% hard workers, because that will require growth and we won't grow the economy until we stop monetizing our debt and mal investing capital in race to the bottom currency wars.

[Swordsmyth]

Getting rid of the minimum wage won't fix the ballooning labor costs in the US which are caused by our monetary policy. The establishment has taken an axe to american industry, every functioning part of our economy gets an axe taken to it because it has to prop up the mal investment. I don't see this helping the average worker or even the top 10% hard workers, because that will require growth and we won't grow the economy until we stop monetizing our debt and mal investing capital in race to the bottom currency wars.
Keeping it will continue the additional damage it causes.

[helmuth_hubener]

That was a huge message to the business community... signaling is very important. As a symbol it has value; I'll agree with you that that's true.

[nikcers]

Keeping it will continue the additional damage it causes.
Yes I agree, keeping our disastrous monetary policy will continue the damage it causes. You lost the argument when you decided to believe in the lie that the government ever had any control over the cost of labor or doing business.

[Swordsmyth]

Yes I agree, keeping our disastrous monetary policy will continue the damage it causes. You lost the argument when you decided to believe in the lie that the government ever had any control over the cost of labor or doing business.

Lost?
How does the minimum wage not do additional damage?
Of course our whole fiat system is bad, but are seriously trying to claim that more government intervention does not do more damage?

[nikcers]

Lost?
How does the minimum wage not do additional damage?
Of course our whole fiat system is bad, but are seriously trying to claim that more government intervention does not do more damage?
Are you seriously trying to claim that crony capitalism is more fiscally responsible then socialism when our money is fake?

[Swordsmyth]

Are you seriously trying to claim that crony capitalism is more fiscally responsible then socialism when our money is fake?
More Government = WORSE
Less Government = BETTER

And it is the Crony Capitalists that want the minimum wage, it prevents small business competition from getting off the ground.
And it is the Crony Capitalists who always secretly end up in charge of Socialism and use it to manage their HUMAN RESOURCES.

[nikcers]

More Government = WORSE
Less Government = BETTER

And it is the Crony Capitalists that want the minimum wage, it prevents small business competition from getting off the ground.
And it is the Crony Capitalists who always secretly end up in charge of Socialism and use it to manage their HUMAN RESOURCES.
The government can't create wealth, that's the lie you are trying to push. The government can only divide up what they steal from us. The cost of labor cannot be controlled by government. When the government creates a prohibition on things like cheap labor it just creates a black market for cheap labor, and gives the government the monopoly on the black market.

You are not doing anything to get rid of the black market for cheap labor by getting rid of the minimum wage, you are just getting rid of some of the demand, and is a poor substitute for market correction when labor costs are too high which has more unintended consequences that the liberals will blame on liberty instead of the government created black market for cheap labor.

[Swordsmyth]

The government can't create wealth, that's the lie you are trying to push. The government can only divide up what they steal from us. The cost of labor cannot be controlled by government. When the government creates a prohibition on things like cheap labor it just creates a black market for cheap labor, and gives the government the monopoly on the black market.

You are not doing anything to get rid of the black market for cheap labor by getting rid of the minimum wage, you are just getting rid of some of the demand, and is a poor substitute for market correction when labor costs are too high which has more unintended consequences that the liberals will blame on liberty instead of the government created black market for cheap labor.

You must be drunk.
I never said that the government could create wealth.
Black markets are always smaller and less lively than legalized markets, if outlawing something had no effect they would not do it.
You are the one who does not want the market to determine the price of labor.

[nikcers]

You must be drunk.
I never said that the government could create wealth.
Black markets are always smaller and less lively than legalized markets, if outlawing something had no effect they would not do it.
You are the one who does not want the market to determine the price of labor.
What do you mean, the market doesn't determine wage. Why don't you be honest and explain to me what determines the price you trade your time for? Why does no one argue about minimum wages when the economy is doing great and no one is willing to work for it?

[nikcers]

if outlawing something had no effect they would not do it.
If government created monopolies weren't solvent they would fail right? RIGHT!?!?!

[Swordsmyth]

What do you mean, the market doesn't determine wage.

Yes it does, the same way that it determines the price of everything unless Government or Criminal force get involved.


Why don't you be honest and explain to me what determines the price you trade your time for?

What I am willing to work for vs. what someone else is willing/able to offer.


Why does no one argue about minimum wages when the economy is doing great and no one is willing to work for it?

The same reason people don't argue about anything that is not actively affecting their lives, when no one is willing to work for minimum wage employers are forced by the market to offer more, so eliminating the minimum wage and letting the market rule is not very important to them because economics has functionally already done so.

[Swordsmyth]

If government created monopolies weren't solvent they would fail right? RIGHT!?!?!

They are solvent, every time they print money they steal a portion of every other dollar in existence, a license to steal can do wonders for your bottom line.
Eventually they become insolvent and fail anyway, like Wiemar Germany.

[nikcers]

The same reason people don't argue about anything that is not actively affecting their lives
People argue about whether superman could beat up batman. The reason why we can't have real wages is because of our monetary policy. The government mal invetment doesn't get liquidated in our current economy so you can't really argue that wage laws or regulation has anything to do with the cost of doing business. You can't have entire industries subsidizing their losses on farmers, it just can't happen without printing money, and if you are going to print money then there is no real wage because the market is distorted. Taxes absolutely have a huge affect though, and the real tax, which is the inflation tax or government spending and printing the money, everything else is mountains to molehills.

[Swordsmyth]

People argue about whether superman could beat up batman. The reason why we can't have real wages is because of our monetary policy. The government mal invetment doesn't get liquidated in our current economy so you can't really argue that wage laws or regulation has anything to do with the cost of doing business. You can't have entire industries subsidizing their losses on farmers, it just can't happen without printing money, and if you are going to print money then there is no real wage because the market is distorted. Taxes absolutely have a huge affect though, and the real tax, which is the inflation tax or printing of money, everything else is mountains to molehills.

And more government intervention will only make things worse.


Outlawing paying someone less than X directly affects the cost of doing business especially for small businesses, Nobody can claim otherwise without being a liar or insane.

[Swordsmyth]

People argue about whether superman could beat up batman.
Not many do, and certainly not as a public policy debate.

[nikcers]

And more government intervention will only make things worse. more government intervention then printing money, controlling interest rates, monetizing debt, and sky high taxes? Why not put lipstick on a pig?

[Swordsmyth]

more government intervention then printing money, controlling interest rates, monetizing debt, and sky high taxes?
Yes a minimum wage is more, it is not in your list therefore it is more, Full Communism is even more yet.


Why not put lipstick on a pig?

It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

[nikcers]

Yes a minimum wage is more, it is not in your list therefore it is more, Full Communism is even more yet.



It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Its a figure of speech- you can't make the pig prettier by putting lipstick on it. Arguing about whether or not we should abolish the minimum wage because we need more liberty is exactly that. As long as we continue to monetize the debt the government will still be able to maintain the military industrial complex and the medical industrial complex and everything else that we monetize through debt that determines the value of the dollar and the cost of living which determines the cost of wage and the cost of doing business.

[Swordsmyth]

Its a figure of speech- you can't make the pig prettier by putting lipstick on it. Arguing about whether or not we should abolish the minimum wage because we need more liberty is exactly that. As long as we continue to monetize the debt the government will still be able to maintain the military industrial complex and the medical industrial complex and everything else that we monetize through debt that determines the value of the dollar and the cost of living which determines the cost of wage and the cost of doing business.

No facet of Tyranny is trivial, and I will call for the end of each and every one, besides that is not how this started, Missouri rolled back St.Louis's minimum wage and Keith and Stuff mentioned that NH had eliminated their minimum wage, then YOU chimed in to DEFEND the minimum wage as a "good" thing like a good little Liberal.

[nikcers]

No facet of Tyranny is trivial, and I will call for the end of each and every one, besides that is not how this started, Missouri rolled back St.Louis's minimum wage and Keith and Stuff mentioned that NH had eliminated their minimum wage, then YOU chimed in to DEFEND the minimum wage as a "good" thing like a good little Liberal.
There you go calling me a Liberal because I don't want to pay the banks to give people loans for houses they can't afford. It's a great way to win an argument against a libertarian who doesn't want to pay other people to go through college and then not even get a job afterwards when I can't afford to go to college myself. FUCK me for not wanting to pay for other people to go to the doctors when I can't afford to get a check up because the doctor is going to fuck me with 6 return visits at 30 dollars a pop and I don't want to really pay 180 dollars to find out something is wrong with me and I can't afford to fix it.

[Swordsmyth]

There you go calling me a Liberal because I don't want to pay the banks to give people loans for houses they can't afford. It's a great way to win an argument against a libertarian who doesn't want to pay other people to go through college and then not even get a job afterwards when I can't afford to go to college myself. $#@! me for not wanting to pay for other people to go to the doctors when I can't afford to get a check up because the doctor is going to $#@! me with 6 return visits at 30 dollars a pop and I don't want to really pay 180 dollars to find out something is wrong with me and I can't afford to fix it.

If your drunken outburst has any relation to what I have said then you must be complaining about those on welfare being able to take jobs at a lower wage.
If that is the case then the correct answer is to end welfare.
I called you a liberal because you want more government as a solution to a problem. That is not libertarian or conservative or minarchist.

[nikcers]

If your drunken outburst has any relation to what I have said then you must be complaining about those on welfare being able to take jobs at a lower wage.
If that is the case then the correct answer is to end welfare.
I called you a liberal because you want more government as a solution to a problem. That is not libertarian or conservative or minarchist.
I just pointed out that the solution of removing the minimum wage is a false choice establishment narrative. Calling me a partisan in an age where partisan politics is dead is a laugh anyways. The effect minimum wage has on the actual wage of any industry is like a spec of sand in the ocean. Coal miners shouldn't be paying for other people to go to college

[Swordsmyth]

I just pointed out that the solution of removing the minimum wage is a false choice establishment narrative. Calling me a partisan in an age where partisan politics is dead is a laugh anyways. The effect minimum wage has on the actual wage of any industry is like a spec of sand in the ocean. Coal miners shouldn't be paying for other people to go to college

You are deranged.
Removing the minimum wage does not make Coal miners pay for other people to go to college.
You want to make small businesses pay so that low skill workers can go to college.
You want government to "Solve" a problem that you perceive, that is NOT libertarian, it is Statist.

[nikcers]

You are deranged.
Removing the minimum wage does not make Coal miners pay for other people to go to college.
You want to make small businesses pay so that low skill workers can go to college.
You want government to "Solve" a problem that you perceive, that is NOT libertarian, it is Statist.
No I was pointing out that these types of arguments make it to where we can't see the forest from the tree through all the nonsensical bickering like trying to say that the government can control wages. You even said it yourself the government can't control what you choose to work for. The government can absolutely run up a bunch of debt and take away your house and sell it back to you by proxy of their bankster friends. They can run up a bunch of debt and make college or healthcare so expensive ruining the quality and making costs skyrocket so people cant afford it. That's the real reason why people are debating minimum wages right now, its a distraction from the real problem. The forest is on fire and you are staring and a dead stump that people have been circumventing through paying people under the table or paying people salary and having them work 80+ hr weeks like in the IT industry.

[Swordsmyth]

You even said it yourself the government can't control what you choose to work for.

I did not say that, but I did acknowledge the existence of the black market, but most people can't run a successful business or earn a decent living on the black market.

[Swordsmyth]

No I was pointing out that these types of arguments make it to where we can't see the forest from the tree through all the nonsensical bickering like trying to say that the government can control wages. You even said it yourself the government can't control what you choose to work for. The government can absolutely run up a bunch of debt and take away your house and sell it back to you by proxy of their bankster friends. They can run up a bunch of debt and make college or healthcare so expensive ruining the quality and making costs skyrocket so people cant afford it. That's the real reason why people are debating minimum wages right now, its a distraction from the real problem. The forest is on fire and you are staring and a dead stump that people have been circumventing through paying people under the table or paying people salary and having them work 80+ hr weeks like in the IT industry.

I am not doing any such thing, unlike you I can walk and chew gum at the same time, I oppose ALL government interference in the economy.
And you keep lying about this conversation, You tried to defend the minimum wage as a "good" thing, and now that I have beaten you at every turn you try to claim that you meant something else.

[nikcers]

I am not doing any such thing, unlike you I can walk and chew gum at the same time, I oppose ALL government interference in the economy.
And you keep lying about this conversation, You tried to defend the minimum wage as a "good" thing, and now that I have beaten you at every turn you try to claim that you meant something else.
Well at least I know how to read.

[Swordsmyth]

Well at least I know how to read.
...

You Defended the minimum wage and socialism.


Are you seriously trying to claim that crony capitalism is more fiscally responsible then socialism when our money is fake?

[anaconda]

LOL