I wonder if the FBI will shoot any "hippies" at Malheur?

[phill4paul]

Ranchers fume as ‘Rainbow Family’ set to camp on federal land in Oregon
Allowing thousands of make-shift campers on sensitive habitat doesn’t sit well with ranchers who must follow strict grazing rules.

The U.S. Forest Service acknowledged there isn’t much it can do about a “Rainbow Family” gathering expected to bring thousands of counter-culture types to the Malheur National Forest in Eastern Oregon over the next two weeks.

The organizers don’t have a permit, and the Forest Service’s response to that has angered area residents such as rancher Loren Stout, who lives near the gathering spot and has a federal grazing permit on land adjacent to it.

He said the Forest Service would punish ranchers if they ignored permit requirements and tapped a spring for drinking water like the Rainbow Family has done. Stout said it took him two years to get a National Environmental Policy Act permit to drill an exploratory mining hole.

“People are furious over this,” Stout said. “Not because it’s a friggin’ bunch of hippies, it’s the different standards.”

An estimated 500 to 700 people have already set up camp at Flagtail Meadow off of Forest Road 24, near the towns of Seneca and John Day. The 46th annual National Rainbow Gathering could draw 15,000 to 20,000 July 1-7, and is being held without a permit required of anyone else who would want to stage such an event on federal forest land.

Ryan Nehl, deputy Forest Service supervisor on the Malheur and the agency administrator for the event, planned to take a permit form to organizers at the gathering spot June 21.

“I don’t have a lot of faith they will sign it,” Nehl said. In that case, the Forest Service will impose an operational plan for the gathering to follow, and could take action if those conditions are violated.

But Nehl said the Forest Service will not attempt to stop the gathering.

“It’s a risk-based decision,” he said. “To try and kick them off the land would present a danger to employees and the public.”

The event is put on by the Rainbow Family of Living Light, a loosely-organized group that annually picks a spot for its gathering and invites like-minded people to attend for multiple days of music, camping, dancing and communal hanging out. The gatherings have been held since the 1970s.

On a Facebook page set up for this year’s event https://www.facebook.com/groups/246284825703234/, one person posted, “If we were in control we would all have free energy, everyone would be housed and fed and we’d be having song circles every day.”

“What is the pants policy at this event?” another poster asked. He was assured that nudity should be expected.

In other postings, people urged fellow “family” members not to upset locals by panhandling or “gas jugging,” meaning to beg for gasoline. Others caution against “spanging,” a slang reference to asking for spare change. A stabbing among Rainbow members during a meeting in the Umatilla National Forest earlier in June has area residents worried about what the larger gathering will bring.

A community meeting was scheduled June 23, in John Day to let residents ask questions of Forest Service and law enforcement personnel. The meeting is from 5 p.m. to 6:30 p.m. in the Juniper Hall Conference Room of the Malheur National Forest Headquarters, 431 Patterson Bridge Road.

The Forest Service mobilized an incident command team that includes 30 agency law enforcement officers from around the country, and has marked areas such as creeks that campers should stay out of. Oregon State Police, BLM officers, Grant County sheriff’s deputies and John Day police are available to help the incident team, Nehl said.

Meanwhile, rancher Stout said the Forest Service is “trying to put grazers out of business” but lets the Rainbow bunch do what they want. He said the gathering spot is a major Native American archaeological site and the area has eight springs that could be damaged.

He said the “takeover of federal ground” is no different than the Bundy group’s occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters. “I hate to say that,” Stout said.

http://www.capitalpress.com/Oregon/20170621/ranchers-fume-as-rainbow-family-set-to-camp-on-federal-land-in-oregon

[specsaregood]

Its a non commercial event; should not the people have free reign to visit our national forest? IIRC, its not a real organization for this specific reason. Its just people getting together at will.

[phill4paul]

Its a non commercial event; should not the people have free reign to visit our national forest? IIRC, its not a real organization for this specific reason. Its just people getting together at will.

I don't really have any problem with people squatting on forest land. And with 10k+ there is gonna be plenty of "squatting." ;) But, I know Rainbow types and I'm sure every one of them seethed when the Bundy's took their stand and cheered when Finicum lay dead in the snow.

[specsaregood]

I don't really have any problem with people squatting on forest land. And with 10k+ there is gonna be plenty of "squatting." ;) But, I know Rainbow types and I'm sure every one of them seethed when the Bundy's took their stand and cheered when Finicum lay dead in the snow.

I'm sure some did cheer, but I know a few personally including DW and her friends that did not and would not. just saying.

[dannno]

Rainbow gatherings are awesome, I love psytrance..

[Swordsmyth]

Its a non commercial event; should not the people have free reign to visit our national forest? IIRC, its not a real organization for this specific reason. Its just people getting together at will.

“People are furious over this,” Stout said. “Not because it’s a friggin’ bunch of hippies, it’s the different standards.”

This sums it up nicely. ^^^

[specsaregood]

“People are furious over this,” Stout said. “Not because it’s a friggin’ bunch of hippies, it’s the different standards.”

This sums it up nicely. ^^^

I think there is a significant difference between a commercial and non-commercial event and thus different standards are reasonable. The rainbow gathering are just people getting together independently. That is not to say that the standards held to the ranchers are fair...

[Swordsmyth]

I think there is a significant difference between a commercial and non-commercial event and thus different standards are reasonable. The rainbow gathering are just people getting together independently. That is not to say that the standards held to the ranchers are fair...

Everybody else is held to those same standards.
Try doing this as some kind of libertarian camp out and see what happens to you.

[specsaregood]

Everybody else is held to those same standards.
Try doing this as some kind of libertarian camp out and see what happens to you.

Try doing what? Have a bunch of libertarians get together informally and camp with no organization? just like friends getting together? I don't see the problem, citation of where it ever was a problem? It sure shouldn't be.

[Swordsmyth]

Try doing what? Have a bunch of libertarians get together informally and camp with no organization? just like friends getting together? I don't see the problem, citation of where it ever was a problem? It sure shouldn't be.

If you did what the hippies are doing and did not get a permit you would be fined or maybe even go to jail, or maybe even end up dead.
But hippies are good little leftists, so they don't have to follow any rules, good rules, bad rules, it makes no difference, we have to follow them and they don't.

[specsaregood]

If you did what the hippies are doing and did not get a permit you would be fined or maybe even go to jail, or maybe even end up dead.
But hippies are good little leftists, so they don't have to follow any rules, good rules, bad rules, it makes no difference, we have to follow them and they don't.

And yet you can't cite any evidence of this ever happening. Are you suggesting they should have to get a permit to have an informal gathering on public land? Or you agree they shouldn't have to get a permit, yet want to bitch and complain because you don't like them? Just fyi, but you are coming off as a big whiny vagina.

[dannno]

Everybody else is held to those same standards.
Try doing this as some kind of libertarian camp out and see what happens to you.

No, what he's saying is that people who are using the land to graze their cattle and to otherwise profit from the public lands are held to a different standard than those who are just there to setup for a short time, camp out, play some tunes and in theory leave the land like when they got there.

The ranchers aren't being treated fairly, we know that.. but why punish innocent hippies?

There is a big open space, frisbee golf course, park near my house. People bring their dogs there off-leash because it is such a big area, but there are signs posted that dogs are to be on leash. After they get enough complaints they will send a ranger out, hand out a few tickets, tell anybody who complains further that they are doing something about it, the complaints dwindle down for a couple years or so because nothing bad ever really happens, then some new people move into the neighborhood and complain, rinse and repeat.

A few months ago when this happened, I told some people I saw there who had dogs off leash that there was a ranger there a couple days earlier, and to just be on the look-out. They started complaining about the frisbee golfers smoking on the course... I was like, come on, let's focus on the issue here - there is no reason they should be ticketing people for having dogs off leash here, it is largely un-enforced anyway, let's just keep it that way and not turn this into frisbee golfers smoking on the course.. For one thing, I rarely if ever see frisbee golfers smoking cigarettes, usually you see them smoking joints, and who the hell cares if anybody is smoking a joint on a frisbee golf course?

[Swordsmyth]

And yet you can't cite any evidence of this ever happening. Are you suggesting they should have to get a permit to have an informal gathering on public land? Or you agree they shouldn't have to get a permit, yet want to bitch and complain because you don't like them? Just fyi, but you are coming off as a big whiny vagina.

And you are coming off as a MORON.

This is not about saying they should or should not have to get a permit, this is about the lefty scumbags being a protected class that gets to ignore all rules good or bad.
Normal people are fined or sent to jail every day for breaking this kind of rule and if they try to resist they are physically attacked, but when it is hippies then “It’s a risk-based decision,” “To try and kick them off the land would present a danger to employees and the public.”

[Swordsmyth]

No, what he's saying is that people who are using the land to graze their cattle and to otherwise profit from the public lands are held to a different standard than those who are just there to setup for a short time, camp out, play some tunes and in theory leave the land like when they got there.

The ranchers aren't being treated fairly, we know that.. but why punish innocent hippies?

There is a big open space, frisbee golf course, park near my house. People bring their dogs there off-leash because it is such a big area, but there are signs posted that dogs are to be on leash. After they get enough complaints they will send a ranger out, hand out a few tickets, tell anybody who complains further that they are doing something about it, the complaints dwindle down for a couple years or so because nothing bad ever really happens, then some new people move into the neighborhood and complain, rinse and repeat.

A few months ago when this happened, I told some people I saw there who had dogs off leash that there was a ranger there a couple days earlier, and to just be on the look-out. They started complaining about the frisbee golfers smoking on the course... I was like, come on, let's focus on the issue here - there is no reason they should be ticketing people for having dogs off leash here, it is largely un-enforced anyway, let's just keep it that way and not turn this into frisbee golfers smoking on the course.. For one thing, I rarely if ever see frisbee golfers smoking cigarettes, usually you see them smoking joints, and who the hell cares if anybody is smoking a joint on a frisbee golf course?

I did not call for them to be punished, I pointed out why people were angry that the hippy "Nobility" were allowed to do something we would not be allowed to do.
This is not just about the ranchers who make a profit from public lands, if you tried to do what the hippies are doing, you would not be treated they way they are.

[dannno]

No, what he's saying is that people who are using the land to graze their cattle and to otherwise profit from the public lands are held to a different standard than those who are just there to setup for a short time, camp out, play some tunes and in theory leave the land like when they got there.

The ranchers aren't being treated fairly, we know that.. but why punish innocent hippies?

There is a big open space, frisbee golf course, park near my house. People bring their dogs there off-leash because it is such a big area, but there are signs posted that dogs are to be on leash. After they get enough complaints they will send a ranger out, hand out a few tickets, tell anybody who complains further that they are doing something about it, the complaints dwindle down for a couple years or so because nothing bad ever really happens, then some new people move into the neighborhood and complain, rinse and repeat.

A few months ago when this happened, I told some people I saw there who had dogs off leash that there was a ranger there a couple days earlier, and to just be on the look-out. They started complaining about the frisbee golfers smoking on the course... I was like, come on, let's focus on the issue here - there is no reason they should be ticketing people for having dogs off leash here, it is largely un-enforced anyway, let's just keep it that way and not turn this into frisbee golfers smoking on the course.. For one thing, I rarely if ever see frisbee golfers smoking cigarettes, usually you see them smoking joints, and who the hell cares if anybody is smoking a joint on a frisbee golf course?

Oh, I forgot to add, and this is the most important part - if they started enforcing the no smoking for frisbee golfers, guess what? That requires enforcement. That means they are going to come down harder on the un-leashed dogs because they will have more overall enforcement of the rules.

So my point is, if you want to protect the ranchers, don't send the authorities after the innocent hippies who aren't doing anything wrong, that will just result in a request for more funding for enforcement and end up hurting the ranchers.

Instead focus on the prize - more rights for cattle grazing on public lands and retain the rights of hippies on public lands.

[specsaregood]

And you are coming off as a MORON.

This is not about saying they should or should not have to get a permit, this is about the lefty scumbags being a protected class that gets to ignore all rules good or bad.
Normal people are fined or sent to jail every day for breaking this kind of rule and if they try to resist they are physically attacked, but when it is hippies then “It’s a risk-based decision,” “To try and kick them off the land would present a danger to employees and the public.”


I'm pretty sure that libertarians camp all the time without any permits and don't get fined or go to jail.

[Swordsmyth]

Oh, I forgot to add, and this is the most important part - if they started enforcing the no smoking for frisbee golfers, guess what? That requires enforcement. That means they are going to come down harder on the un-leashed dogs because they will have more overall enforcement of the rules.

So my point is, if you want to protect the ranchers, don't send the authorities after the innocent hippies who aren't doing anything wrong, that will just result in a request for more funding for enforcement and end up hurting the ranchers.

Instead focus on the prize - more rights for cattle grazing on public lands.

I did not call for them to be punished.

[Swordsmyth]

I'm pretty sure that libertarians camp all the time without any permits and don't get fined or go to jail.

By the thousands?

"The U.S. Forest Service acknowledged there isn’t much it can do about a 'Rainbow Family' gathering expected to bring thousands of counter-culture types to the Malheur National Forest in Eastern Oregon over the next two weeks."

[specsaregood]

By the thousands?

"The U.S. Forest Service acknowledged there isn’t much it can do about a 'Rainbow Family' gathering expected to bring thousands of counter-culture types to the Malheur National Forest in Eastern Oregon over the next two weeks."

What is the difference? They aren't part of any formal group, there are no payments or anything. It is just people deciding to get together and camp. 12 or thousands should make no difference. I still haven't seen you cite where libertarians have done this and been arrested or fined.

[ChristianAnarchist]

Leave them be. They won't hurt you...

[Swordsmyth]

"The organizers don’t have a permit"
They are organizing this gathering, right or wrong that makes a difference in big brother's rule book.

Federal grand jury indicts 16 people in Malheur refuge takeoverhttp://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/federal_indictment_against_amm.html

And besides that case ordinary people are fined and or arrested for breaking these kinds of rules every day. The specific rule does not matter.

[Swordsmyth]

Leave them be. They won't hurt you...


I did not call for them to be punished.

[RJB]

I have taught outdoor/survival skills to groups ranging from far right survivalists to rainbow gathering types. I have gotten along fine with all and there is an odd mix of them. The rainbow people aren't all lefties. There are a lot of libertarian minded people.

I think why the Forest Service people aren't messing with the Rainbow People is because they have nothing to lose. Kind of like illegal aliens not getting DUIs. Rancher's get harassed because they will pay fines and allow the state to take their land, in most cases. The Forest Service knows they are wasting their time trying to fine half the people at the Rainbow Gathering. A lot will just hop a train and be on the other side of the country in a few days with no return address.

[dannno]

I did not call for them to be punished.

Ya, but by putting the focus on them and turning them into a nail, what do you think the hammer is going to do?

[Swordsmyth]

Ya, but by putting the focus on them and turning them into a nail, what do you think the hammer is going to do?
It won't hit the hippies.
If we make a big enough stink it might lay off the rest of us.
But most likely nothing will happen, so the point is to get people mad at government for being unfair in it's application of the law.

[specsaregood]

"The organizers don’t have a permit"
They are organizing this gathering, right or wrong that makes a difference in big brother's rule book.

Federal grand jury indicts 16 people in Malheur refuge takeoverhttp://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/federal_indictment_against_amm.html

And besides that case ordinary people are fined and or arrested for breaking these kinds of rules every day. The specific rule does not matter.

They aren't indicted for camping on public land, the two situations are not even really close to comparable. That the best you can do, seriously? Its time to stop bitching about how the big bad hippies are getting away with stuff you are too afraid to try yourself.

[Swordsmyth]

They aren't indicted for camping on public land, the two situations are not even really close to comparable. That the best you can do, seriously? Its time to stop bitching about how the big bad hippies are getting away with stuff you are too afraid to try yourself.

Ordinary people are fined and or arrested for breaking these kinds of rules every day. The specific rule does not matter.
Are you really trying to claim that the feds would treat us the same way?

[otherone]

By the thousands?



that's silly. There'd have to be thousands of libertarians to start with.

[specsaregood]

Ordinary people are fined and or arrested for breaking these kinds of rules every day. The specific rule does not matter.
Are you really trying to claim that the feds would treat us the same way?

absolutely I am. prove I am wrong.

[Swordsmyth]

absolutely I am. prove I am wrong.
Did the IRS treat consevative non-profits the same?
You are either insane or you are trolling.
I am done trying to teach you to sing. (see my sig)

[phill4paul]

that's silly. There'd have to be thousands of libertarians to start with.

That, right there, is comic gold.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to otherone again.

[specsaregood]

Did the IRS treat consevative non-profits the same?
So you cant cite any examples of which we are talking, so you bring up unrelated issues from completely different operations.


You are either insane or you are trolling.
I am done trying to teach you to sing. (see my sig)

Those are the words of one that cant back up their own assertions. Go camping with some libertarian friends out where the rainbow gathering have held their events. I bet you wont have the government send a strikeforce out after you.

[Swordsmyth]

So you cant cite any examples of which we are talking, so you bring up unrelated issues from completely different operations.



Those are the words of one that cant back up their own assertions. Go camping with some libertarian friends out where the rainbow gathering have held their events. I bet you wont have the government send a strikeforce out after you.
One last time. (for the benefit of the readers)

"He said the Forest Service would punish ranchers if they ignored permit requirements and tapped a spring for drinking water like the Rainbow Family has done."

"An estimated 500 to 700 people have already set up camp at Flagtail Meadow off of Forest Road 24, near the towns of Seneca and John Day. The 46th annual National Rainbow Gathering could draw 15,000 to 20,000 July 1-7, and is being held without a permit required of anyone else who would want to stage such an event on federal forest land.

Ryan Nehl, deputy Forest Service supervisor on the Malheur and the agency administrator for the event, planned to take a permit form to organizers at the gathering spot June 21.

'I don’t have a lot of faith they will sign it,' Nehl said. In that case, the Forest Service will impose an operational plan for the gathering to follow, and could take action if those conditions are violated.

But Nehl said the Forest Service will not attempt to stop the gathering.

'It’s a risk-based decision,' he said. 'To try and kick them off the land would present a danger to employees and the public.'"

If this was done by anyone on the "Right" they would not be begging on their hands and knees for us to please sign the permit application.
They would arrive with armed law-enforcement and would begin to issue citations and make arrests, particularly targeting the organizers.

[CPUd]

Ordinary people are fined and or arrested for breaking these kinds of rules every day. The specific rule does not matter.
Are you really trying to claim that the feds would treat us the same way?

Who is "us"?

[Swordsmyth]

Who is "us"?

The members of this site or the Ron Paul movement or libertarians or Republicans or any group not composed of gibbering leftists. Take your pick.

[phill4paul]

I've got nothing against the Rainbows. There's been times in the past when they didn't clean up the mess, but they are really good about it these days. But, there's not a single one I know that isn't liberal. I'm sure there may be exceptions.
I don't see how it is NOT possible to see a double standard here though. The forest service will take a hands off approach because they know who butters their bread at the election poll.
If there were an militia gathering, without a permit, of 10k, though as otherone notes doubtful, no less than 20 state and federal agencies would be on hand. And leftists would be incensed that they didn't get the required permit.

Edit for clarity in red.

[Swordsmyth]

I've got nothing against the Rainbows. There's been times in the past when they didn't clean up the mess, but they are really good about it these days. But, there's not a single one I know that isn't liberal. I'm sure there may be exceptions.
I don't see how it is possible to not see a double standard here though. The forest service will take a hands off approach because they know who butters their bread at the election poll.
If there were an militia gathering of 10k, though as otherone notes doubtful, no less than 20 state and federal agencies would be on hand.
Fixed it for you.

[phill4paul]

Fixed it for you.

Thank you. "Not" was missing from that sentence.

[CPUd]

The members of this site or the Ron Paul movement or libertarians or Republicans or any group not composed of gibbering leftists. Take your pick.

Some of those people will shit in the creek, others will dig a hole and shit there. A poll is required to be sure though.

[Swordsmyth]

Some of those people will $#@! in the creek, others will dig a hole and $#@! there. A poll is required to be sure though.

You really need to see a doctor about your dementia.
Your comments get less rational and less relevant every day.

[phill4paul]

Some of those people will shit in the creek, others will dig a hole and shit there. A poll is required to be sure though.

I'd actually like to attend a rainbow gathering and see how they deal with the human waste. Maybe specsaregood could get his DW to contribute to the discussion. This is a gathering of between 1ok and 20k people. For 7 days.
Also there is the other waste. I believe a volunteer crew stays behind and cleans up the mess. But, who pays for the dump fee? I'd imagine a collection is taken?

[specsaregood]

I'd actually like to attend a rainbow gathering and see how they deal with the human waste. Maybe specsaregood could get his DW to contribute to the discussion. This is a gathering of between 1ok and 20k people. For 7 days.
Also there is the other waste. I believe a volunteer crew stays behind and cleans up the mess. But, who pays for the dump fee? I'd imagine a collection is taken?

I'll ask her tomorrow night. (after work and sleep). She went twice in her youth, its on our "todo" list to attend together someday.

[tod evans]

A good part of the local commune goes to these, they're well versed on waste control/recycling as they live it every day...

I'd expect there'll be many others from similar environments who'll help the less knowledgeable.

[CPUd]

I'd actually like to attend a rainbow gathering and see how they deal with the human waste. Maybe specsaregood could get his DW to contribute to the discussion. This is a gathering of between 1ok and 20k people. For 7 days.
Also there is the other waste. I believe a volunteer crew stays behind and cleans up the mess. But, who pays for the dump fee? I'd imagine a collection is taken?

Probably a latrine pit, or port-a-johns. Then they can pay for the honey wagon to come out and empty them.

I've seen some natural facilities that have regular restrooms that empty out into a marsh. Then the plants break it down.

[Jamesiv1]

And you are coming off as a MORON.
You sir, are no lover of liberty.

[Swordsmyth]

You sir, are no lover of liberty.
Liberty can not exist when one group is treated different under the law.
I never called for the hippies to be stopped or arrested or fined, I pointed out that ordinary people have every right to be livid that the Feds treat us one way and the left another.
It is moronic to pretend that something is not wrong with this.

[phill4paul]

Probably a latrine pit, or port-a-johns. Then they can pay for the honey wagon to come out and empty them.

I've seen some natural facilities that have regular restrooms that empty out into a marsh. Then the plants break it down.

Lol. Have you ever ran a festival? Do you know what the cost factor of enough port-o-johns for 10k for a week runs? And someone would be considered an "organizer" if they rented them. Many rental companies require proof of permit.
I'm guessing "trench" latrines. I dunno. That's why I'm asking.

[Danke]

Wrong thread. Oops.

[Swordsmyth]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4633180/The-nut-plowed-crowd-protesters.html#ixzz4krmdiVBq


EXCLUSIVE: The motorcycle nut who plowed through a crowd of Trumpcare protesters is a sleazy porn boss who boasts of 'white pride' and claims he can't be racist because he married a 'slant eye import'



Jeff Dillon, 39, was arrested Wednesday for speeding his motorcycle through a crowd of Trumpcare protesters in San Francisco
DailyMail.com can reveal Dillon is a hardcore Trump supporter who heads the business development department of porn website GameLink
Dillon ran a Facebook group called White Privilege Club which sought to celebrate 'white culture'
The heavily tattooed self-described bodybuilder has his nickname, Dillonaire, inked on his forearm
Dillon was cited for reckless driving and released without being booked into jail

By Ryan Parry West Coast Correspondent For Dailymail.com (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/search.html?s=&authornamef=Ryan+Parry+West+Coast+Correspondent+Fo r+Dailymail.com)


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4633180/The-nut-plowed-crowd-protesters.html#ixzz4krrbyNs0
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter (http://ec.tynt.com/b/rw?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=MailOnline) | DailyMail on Facebook (http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=DailyMail)

What does this have to do with this thread?

He did not hit anyone and he was cited for reckless driving.

[ChristianAnarchist]

I did not call for them to be punished.

I was not addressing anyone specifically... This was a generic statement meant for all who want to mess with them. Did you feel like the shoe fits??