Trump is pulling U.S. out of Paris climate deal

[FSP-Rebel]

President Trump has made his decision to withdraw from the Paris climate accord, according to two sources with direct knowledge of the decision. Details on how the withdrawal will be executed are being worked out by a small team including EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt. They're deciding on whether to initiate a full, formal withdrawal — which could take 3 years — or exit the underlying United Nations climate change treaty, which would be faster but more extreme.

Why this matters: Pulling out of Paris is the biggest thing Trump could do to unravel Obama's climate legacy. It sends a combative signal to the rest of the world that America doesn't prioritize climate change and threatens to unravel the ambition of the entire deal.

More...https://www.axios.com/scoop-trump-is-pulling-u-s-out-of-paris-climate-deal-2427773025.html

869908061690798080

[CPUd]

squishy language, pay attention to the details. Donny wants to have his cake and eat it too.

[Zippyjuan]

Process can take four years. Plenty of time to change positions again.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40108659


His supporters argue the accord restricts America's ability to do what it wants with its energy resources - an important sector of the economy.
However, under the accord, countries set emission limits themselves - not an outside panel.


The agreement stipulates a three-year waiting period before a country can give notice of leaving, which adds another 12 months and brings us to June 2021.

It could be that President Trump will be out of office before the US would be out of the deal.

[timosman]

Could be done much quicker.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?511058-Trump-Anticipated-To-Pull-the-U-S-Out-of-Paris-Climate-Agreement&p=6474746&viewfull=1#post6474746

[r3volution 3.0]

Good, but it's largely PR; the US is bound by treaties in the same way the federal government allows you to sue it.

[Dr.3D]

If congress didn't authorize the deal, it will be easy to get out of it.

[timosman]

If congress didn't authorize the deal, it will be easy to get out of it.

Not according to the shills.:cool:

[FSP-Rebel]

Figured, the triggering has begun. You guys overplayed your hand as to whether you wanted the US in this thing. Trump killed TPP and is doing the same on this Paris shit. Find globalist solace in your fake news. Rand and Trump are on the same page here.

[timosman]

Figured, the triggering has begun. You guys overplayed your hand as to whether you wanted the US in this thing. Trump killed TPP and is doing the same on this Paris shit. Find globalist solace in your fake news. Rand and Trump are on the same page here.

Fuckers have no idea what moderation is.:cool:

[r3volution 3.0]

Trump killed TPP

The TPP was already dead in Congress, and was similarly non-binding.

There is no foreign state/international organization capable of binding the US to anything.

The fear of losing sovereignty to some trade board is absurd on its face.

[FSP-Rebel]

The TPP was already dead in Congress, and was similarly non-binding.

There is no foreign state/international organization capable of binding the US to anything.

The fear of losing sovereignty to some trade board is absurd on its face.

Wrong, under a Hillary regime this TPP would be played out on globalist steroids and the uniparty establishment would be fully aroused. Trump is getting back to his base as evidenced by the latest trends. You don't have to agree w/ every detail like we did w/ Ron to give credit when it's due to a non100%er. Let us just sit back and hope to hell that Trump doesn't do anything good towards liberty so one can maintain their morally superior preconceptions about the man.

[William Tell]

Good.

[r3volution 3.0]

Wrong, under a Hillary regime...

Let me stop you right there, because you're missing my point. If the US government wants to impose carbon taxes on the US, it can - obviously. What I'm saying is that there is no foreign state/international organization capable of imposing carbon tax on the US against the opposition of the US government. Whether there's a treaty or not is irrelevant. Everything depends on who is in power in Washington DC; nothing depends on what (unenforceable) treaties are signed. Hence, the killing of this treaty (not even really a treaty) is in itself quite meaningless.


You don't have to agree w/ every detail like we did w/ Ron to give credit when it's due to a non100%er.

I did give credit where credit is do.

He gets credit for a good PR move, but nothing more, because that's all this is.

He does not get credit for "saving the US from teh globalists" or whatever you've imagined this to be.

[Danke]

'Paris Agreement' : "Acknowledging that climate change is a common concern of humankind, Parties should, when taking action to address climate change, respect, promote and consider their respective obligations on human rights, the right to health, the rights of indigenous peoples, local communities, migrants, children, persons with disabilities and people in vulnerable situations and the right to development, as well as gender equality, empowerment of women and intergenerational equity."

[dannno]

Trump on Paris accord: 'We're getting out' (14 minutes ago)


http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/01/politics/trump-paris-climate-decision/index.html

[juleswin]

Good, but it's largely PR; the US is bound by treaties in the same way the federal government allows you to sue it.

Like a treaty that hasn't been ratified by congress.

[CPUd]

870369915894546432
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/870369915894546432

[dannno]

870369915894546432
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/870369915894546432

Good, stick the free market where you aren't putting a gun to other people's heads.

[Madison320]

Check out the Weather Channel reaction, I'm not sure how long it'll stay up but it's really funny. No bias there!

Here's the captions:

BREAKING NOW: Trump Pulls U.S. Out of Paris Climate Agreement; What That Means
So, What Happens to Earth Now?

Still Don't Care? Proof You Should

...and More Proof...

...and Even More Proof...

...Or the Imminent Collapse of a Key Ice Shelf...

...Or Antarctica Turning Green...

...Or California's Coast Disappearing Into the Sea...

Watch Trump Make the Announcement




https://weather.com/

[CPUd]

870369162610307074
https://twitter.com/politico/status/870369162610307074

[dannno]

Check out the Weather Channel reaction, I'm not sure how long it'll stay up but it's really funny. No bias there!

Here's the captions:

BREAKING NOW: Trump Pulls U.S. Out of Paris Climate Agreement; What That Means
So, What Happens to Earth Now?

Still Don't Care? Proof You Should

...and More Proof...

...and Even More Proof...

...Or the Imminent Collapse of a Key Ice Shelf...

...Or Antarctica Turning Green...

...Or California's Coast Disappearing Into the Sea...

Watch Trump Make the Announcement




https://weather.com/

Funny because the founder of The Weather Channel is a huge climate skeptic..

http://www.climatedepot.com/2016/04/29/weather-channel-founder-slams-bill-nye-calls-him-a-pretend-scientist-in-a-bow-tie/

[donnay]

Good, I had heard he was mulling this over and I am glad he sided on the side that gets America out of these ridiculous things. The globalists are looking to make America go broke.

[Madison320]

Funny because the founder of The Weather Channel is a huge climate skeptic..

http://www.climatedepot.com/2016/04/29/weather-channel-founder-slams-bill-nye-calls-him-a-pretend-scientist-in-a-bow-tie/

Yeah, I've seen him talk about. I'm not sure what's up, maybe he's not connected with the weather channel anymore?

[devil21]

Teh Donald said it so it's gotta be true. Pay no mind to the clapping bankers in the front row.

[dannno]

Yeah, I've seen him talk about. I'm not sure what's up, maybe he's not connected with the weather channel anymore?

Retired. He was the founder, he was also a weatherman on San Diego's local tv station.. which was kinda funny because in San Diego it is 70 degrees and sunny like 300+ days a year, so not a lot of interesting things going on in the weather - but - he was famous on Friday's for yelling "IT'S FRIDAY!!!" and the whole thing would echo and they would make a big scene about it. I remember that from when I was a kid.

[dannno]

Teh Donald said it so it's gotta be true. Pay no mind to the clapping bankers in the front row.

lol.. getting out of the Paris Climate agreement is a deep state move??

Come on, man..

[oyarde]

The Great Oyarde says there will be no climate deal ever that benefits the taxpaying citizens of the US . None , never .

[Dr.3D]

Yeah, I've seen him talk about. I'm not sure what's up, maybe he's not connected with the weather channel anymore?
No he's not a part of the Weather Channel. The Climate Change people took it over and are using it to shill for Climate Change.

[Danke]

Retired. He was the founder, he was also a weatherman on San Diego's local tv station.. which was kinda funny because in San Diego it is 70 degrees and sunny like 300+ days a year, so not a lot of interesting things going on in the weather - but - he was famous on Friday's for yelling "IT'S FRIDAY!!!" and the whole thing would echo and they would make a big scene about it. I remember that from when I was a kid.


"LA Story" :)

[liveandletlive]

We arent meeting the benchmarks for carbon emissions regardless of the deal being in effect. If i had to guess, its quite likely ALL energy companies know exactly what is going on with the climate as it is their incentive to know if the earth is warming due to human factors. These companies all have some internal research aside from what NASA puts out, but they sure as hell arent going to alarm the public about it.

However I laugh at those who say climate change is a hoax (all the while believing a man 2,000 years ago was crucified and then rose from the dead). There are no absolutes, especially in science... but if I had a question theoretical physics, I would surely trust Stephen Hawking to come up with an answer that is more than likely to be true over Donald Trump or Steve Bannon, laymen in these fields.

[r3volution 3.0]

Like a treaty that hasn't been ratified by congress.

Even a treaty that has been ratified by Congress is unenforceable against the sole global superpower.

But yea, despite what the SCOTUS says, this agreement is constitutionally void till ratified by the Senate.

[KrokHead]

Good, Trump does something smart. The US manufactures things more responsibly than most countries anyway so there are no losers.

[Dr.3D]

Even a treaty that has been ratified by Congress is unenforceable against the sole global superpower.

But yea, despite what the SCOTUS says, this agreement is constitutionally void till ratified by the Senate.

That's what I was saying yesterday and Zippy decided to argue with me, here (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?511146-100-carbon-tax-by-2030-could-save-climate-say-economists&p=6476441&viewfull=1#post6476441).

[spudea]

I don't understand. So many people here said the general election didn't matter. Trump is the same as Hillary.... WRONG!

[William Tell]

http://www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-nation/2017/06/01/I-was-elected-to-represent-the-citizens-of-Pittsburgh-not-Paris-Trump-to-pull-U-S-out-of-Paris-climate-agreement/stories/201706010198

WASHINGTON -- President Donald Trump said Thursday he was withdrawing the U.S. from the Paris climate agreement, striking a major blow to worldwide efforts to combat climate change and distancing the country from many allies abroad. He said the U.S. would try to negotiate re-entry on better terms.


"As of today, the United States will cease all implementation of the nonbinding Paris accord," Trump said during a White House Rose Garden announcement. Suggesting renegotiating re-entry was not a major priority, he said, "If we can, great. If we can't, that's fine."

Hmmmm.

[CPUd]

870381039763566592
https://twitter.com/redsteeze/status/870381039763566592

[Swordsmyth]

http://www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-nation/2017/06/01/I-was-elected-to-represent-the-citizens-of-Pittsburgh-not-Paris-Trump-to-pull-U-S-out-of-Paris-climate-agreement/stories/201706010198
WASHINGTON -- President Donald Trump said Thursday he was withdrawing the U.S. from the Paris climate agreement, striking a major blow to worldwide efforts to combat climate change and distancing the country from many allies abroad. He said the U.S. would try to negotiate re-entry on better terms.


"As of today, the United States will cease all implementation of the nonbinding Paris accord," Trump said during a White House Rose Garden announcement. Suggesting renegotiating re-entry was not a major priority, he said, "If we can, great. If we can't, that's fine."
(http://www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-nation/2017/06/01/I-was-elected-to-represent-the-citizens-of-Pittsburgh-not-Paris-Trump-to-pull-U-S-out-of-Paris-climate-agreement/stories/201706010198)
Hmmmm.


The Great Oyarde says there will be no climate deal ever that benefits the taxpaying citizens of the US . None , never .

I think Dump agrees with Oyarde but wants to sound "moderate".
So he gives the Libs a bag of air and "Hope".

[devil21]

lol.. getting out of the Paris Climate agreement is a deep state move??

Come on, man..

Did you even watch the speech? He said he's getting out so he can renegotiate it and get back in.

First, he's a proven liar and his polling is in the shitter so you don't think maybe his banker cabinet team thought "Hey, we should tell the sheeple that you're getting out of our carbon tax scam so we can finally claim you're keeping a campaign promise. We won't actually do it though! We'll just tell them we're getting out and slip in a quick blurb about renegotiating that our controlled media and internet shill operations won't mention. All of the idiots will think you're actually doing it and then when it's time to start taxing their breathing we'll say you renegotiated it and it's good for Americans! LOL!"

Come on, man...you still believe shit that politicians say????

[Swordsmyth]

Did you even watch the speech? He said he's getting out so he can renegotiate it and get back in.

First, he's a proven liar and his polling is in the $#@!ter so you don't think maybe his banker cabinet team thought "Hey, we should tell the sheeple that you're getting out of our carbon tax scam so we can finally claim you're keeping a campaign promise. We won't actually do it though! We'll just tell them we're getting out and slip in a quick blurb about renegotiating that our controlled media and internet shill operations won't mention. All of the idiots will think you're actually doing it and then when it's time to start taxing their breathing we'll say you renegotiated it and it's good for Americans! LOL!"

Come on, man...you still believe $#@! that politicians say????


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by oyarde http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=6476983#post6476983)
The Great Oyarde says there will be no climate deal ever that benefits the taxpaying citizens of the US . None , never .
I think Dump agrees with Oyarde but wants to sound "moderate".
So he gives the Libs a bag of air and "Hope".

[timosman]

http://www.euronews.com/2017/05/31/concerns-over-possible-us-exit-from-climate-deal



A potential US decision to withdraw from the Paris climate change deal could further alienate American allies in Europe.

In Berlin, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker stressed that withdrawal would take years.
“The Americans can’t just leave the climate protection agreement. Mr. Trump believes that because he doesn’t know the details.”

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker he added: “I’m against us behaving as America’s servants.

“If in the coming hours or days the US President will say that he’s stepping out of the Paris agreement, then it’s Europe’s duty to say ‘that’s not ok’.”

A U-turn by the US could have sweeping implications for the landmark deal, which relies heavily on the commitment of big polluter nations to reduce emissions.

Greenpeace’s Faiza Oulahsen said: “I think it’s a major blow to citizens, organisations and corporations that are deeply concerned about climate change, especially the ones in the US.

“However, I have to say it’s not the end of the world.

“As you can see there is this transition towards cleaner and renewable energy taking place and it’s real and it’s happening and it’s something that Trump may considerably slow down but it’s not a development that he can stop.”

The United States is the world’s second-biggest carbon dioxide emitter behind China.

Supporters of the climate pact are concerned that a US exit could lead other nations to weaken their commitments or also withdraw.

[Swordsmyth]

Italy, France, Germany Say Paris Accord Can Not Be Renegotiated
Less than an hour after President Donald Trump said he would withdraw the US from the Paris climate pact and seek to renegotiate better terms for American workers, Italy, German and France have issued a joint statement saying the pact cannot be renegotiated. (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-climatechange-eu-idUSKBN18S6GN?il=0)

"We deem the momentum generated in Paris in December 2015 irreversible and we firmly believe that the Paris Agreement cannot be renegotiated, since it is a vital instrument for our planet, societies and economies," the leaders of the three countries said in a joint statement as reported by Reuters. (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-climatechange-eu-idUSKBN18S6GN?il=0)

[Danke]

Italy, France, Germany Say Paris Accord Can Not Be Renegotiated


Less than an hour after President Donald Trump said he would withdraw the US from the Paris climate pact and seek to renegotiate better terms for American workers, Italy, German and France have issued a joint statement saying the pact cannot be renegotiated. (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-climatechange-eu-idUSKBN18S6GN?il=0)
"We deem the momentum generated in Paris in December 2015 irreversible and we firmly believe that the Paris Agreement cannot be renegotiated, since it is a vital instrument for our planet, societies and economies," the leaders of the three countries said in a joint statement as reported by Reuters. (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-climatechange-eu-idUSKBN18S6GN?il=0)



Then maybe the should try to attack us. Lol.

[CPUd]

http://i.imgur.com/i8aJSoy.jpg

[Danke]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC_AIdGXEZc

[shakey1]

The Great Oyarde says there will be no climate deal ever that benefits the taxpaying citizens of the US . None , never .

Exactly... the purpose of any climate deal we do would serve only to fleece the citizenry of this country.

[Origanalist]

It's fun watching the climate change cultists heads exploding over this.

[Origanalist]

Not sure if real, but it wouldn't surprise me...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBUdazdXYAAjdY_.jpg:large

[AuH20]

870466456307347457

[devil21]

Not sure if real, but it wouldn't surprise me...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBUdazdXYAAjdY_.jpg:large

The "W" is two V's.

[Zippyjuan]

Besides Trump's daughter Ivanka and the Pope, energy companies said they were against Trump backing out of the agreement.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/06/02/trump-abandons-paris-climate-change-agreement-business-world/


Big oil opposed

Oil supermajors ExxonMobil and Chevron reiterated their support for the endangered agreement, while automaker General Motors said the White House's decision would not lessen its resolve on the climate.

"GM will not waver from our commitment to the environment and our position on climate change has not changed," the company said in a statement.

"International agreements aside, we remain committed to creating a better environment."

Chevron spokeswoman Melissa Ritchie said her company "supports continuing with the Paris Agreement as it offers a first step towards a global framework."

The accord aligns with the company's own policy on carbon emissions, she said.

An Exxon spokesman said the 2015 accord was "critical" given the rising emissions from India and China.

"It's the first major international accord to address climate change that includes emissions reduction pledges from both developed and developing economies," he told AFP.

"We believe that the United States is well positioned to compete within the framework of the Paris agreement."

Trump said he "represented Pittsburgh, not Paris". Then the Mayor of Pittsburgh came out in favor of the agreement .

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/01/pittsburgh-fires-back-trump-paris-agreement


Pittsburgh fires back at Trump: we stand with Paris, not you

“I was elected to represent the citizens of Pittsburgh, not Paris,” Trump said, speaking in the White House rose garden on Thursday.

Peduto seized on the comment, countering that Pittsburgh voted for Trump’s opponent, Hillary Clinton, during the 2016 presidential election. “Fact: Hillary Clinton received 80% of the vote in Pittsburgh,” he wrote. “Pittsburgh stands with the world and will follow Paris agreement.”

He continued: “As the mayor of Pittsburgh, I can assure you that we will follow the guidelines of the Paris agreement for our people, our economy and future.”

The mayor of Paris, Anne Hidalgo, an outspoken critic of Trump, chimed in. “Once again Donald Trump is wrong,” Hidalgo said on Twitter. “Paris and Pittsburgh do stand together for the Paris agreement.”

http://thehill.com/sites/default/files/blogs/pedutotweet.jpg

[Swordsmyth]

Besides Trump's daughter Ivanka and the Pope, energy companies said they were against Trump backing out of the agreement.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/06/02/trump-abandons-paris-climate-change-agreement-business-world/



Trump said he "represented Pittsburgh, not Paris". Then the Mayor of Pittsburgh came out in favor of the agreement .

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/01/pittsburgh-fires-back-trump-paris-agreement

All are good reasons to pull out.

[Dr.3D]

Not sure if real, but it wouldn't surprise me...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBUdazdXYAAjdY_.jpg:large
What the heck is #INPEACH. Sounds like the pits.

[timosman]

Besides Trump's daughter Ivanka and the Pope, energy companies said they were against Trump backing out of the agreement.

Zippy, a die hard liberal quotes the Pope. :cool:

[Origanalist]

All are good reasons to pull out.

yep.

[Origanalist]

Zippy, a die hard liberal quotes the Pope. :cool:

Slippy Zippy has no shame.

[Origanalist]

What the heck is #INPEACH. Sounds like the pits.

I think it's ebonics.

[Seraphim]

Did you even watch the speech? He said he's getting out so he can renegotiate it and get back in.

First, he's a proven liar and his polling is in the $#@!ter so you don't think maybe his banker cabinet team thought "Hey, we should tell the sheeple that you're getting out of our carbon tax scam so we can finally claim you're keeping a campaign promise. We won't actually do it though! We'll just tell them we're getting out and slip in a quick blurb about renegotiating that our controlled media and internet shill operations won't mention. All of the idiots will think you're actually doing it and then when it's time to start taxing their breathing we'll say you renegotiated it and it's good for Americans! LOL!"

Come on, man...you still believe $#@! that politicians say????

Did YOU listen to the speech? He did not say that.

He said if a new deal makes sense, he will contemplate re-entering. If no deal makes sense, there will be no deal.

[FSP-Rebel]

870628489841565696

[CPUd]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kV56JXYz9w

[oyarde]

Then maybe the should try to attack us. Lol.

I bet two silver Eagles the french & italians do not attack me .

[oyarde]

I am though a little concerned about maxine waters and pittsburg or other communists attacking so I am making more arrows tonight . Now that it is clear pittsburg is a french city there will be no quarter given. Pennsylvanias electoral votes should be revoked .

[Danke]

It Begins – German Auto Makers Fear Losing Competitive Advantage Over U.S… (https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/06/02/it-begins-german-auto-makers-fear-losing-competitive-advantage-over-u-s/)
Posted on June 2, 2017 (https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/06/02/it-begins-german-auto-makers-fear-losing-competitive-advantage-over-u-s/) by sundance (https://theconservativetreehouse.com/author/sundancecracker/)


For those following along over the past two years this will not come as a surprise. European manufacturers understand the entire foundation for the Paris Treaty was about economics, economic advantages and the transfer of economic strength away from the U.S., not climate. Specifically for Germany the outlook is especially troubling.


First, Germany will be the primary EU country to fill the financial void from the U.K. leaving the EU (Brexit); that financial hole is approximately €15 billion per year. Secondly, Germany will be faced with having to renegotiate trade deals with the U.S. while they remain encumbered with the regulatory burden of the Paris treaty, while the U.S. negotiators are not. This is a large advantage for Team America.


As such, today we see and immediate reaction. German auto manufacturers announce they are faced with losing a competitive advantage over the U.S. in the global market, and will now need to reassess their domestic production and manufacturing standards:


https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/wilbur-ross-10-vda.jpg?w=640 (https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/wilbur-ross-10-vda.jpg)


REUTERS (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-climatechange-german-carmakers-idUSKBN18T1Q0?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Co ntent&utm_content=5931c4f004d3010e2771c95a&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter) – Germany’s powerful car industry said Europe would need to reassess its environmental standards to remain competitive after the United States said it would withdraw from the Paris climate pact.


President Donald Trump said on Thursday he would withdraw the United States from the landmark 2015 global agreement to fight climate change, drawing anger and condemnation from world leaders and heads of industry.


“The regrettable announcement by the USA makes it inevitable that Europe must facilitate a cost efficient and economically feasible climate policy to remain internationally competitive,” Matthias Wissmann, president of the German auto industry lobby group VDA, said in a statement on Friday.




“The preservation of our competitive position is the precondition for successful climate protection. This correlation is often underestimated,” Wissmann said, adding that the decision by the Unites States was disappointing.


The VDA said electricity and energy prices are already higher in Germany than in the United States, putting Germany at a disadvantage. (link (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-climatechange-german-carmakers-idUSKBN18T1Q0?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Co ntent&utm_content=5931c4f004d3010e2771c95a&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter))


Think about the underlying argument here.


Funny that. Apparently, when push comes to economic shove the German sensibilities are connected more to their economics than to any do-gooder need to save the planet.


It won’t stop with Germany either. Specifically by design of their negotiating teams, China and South-East Asia writ large are inoculated from the economic damage of the Paris Treaty. The EU and the U.S. were set-up by the global financial systems to fall hardest on the economic sword of redistribution. Other massive manufacturing growth economies did not have to meet the same level of intentional economic infliction.


Germany is merely responding to the predictable future.


We can anticipate many more industrialized nations accepting the looming financial burden and positioning themselves for the exits. Anticipate treaty exits coming faster than a fat kid playing dodge ball.


https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/trump-fight-for-you.jpg?w=640&h=360 (https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/trump-fight-for-you.jpg)


Bottom Line:


We are no longer an American economy being led by “stupid people”…


https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/06/02/it-begins-german-auto-makers-fear-losing-competitive-advantage-over-u-s/

[Danke]

Toyota sells all shares in Tesla as their tie-up ends
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyota-tesla-idUSKBN18U05E?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FbusinessNews+%28Bus iness+News%29

[angelatc]

We arent meeting the benchmarks for carbon emissions regardless of the deal being in effect. If i had to guess, its quite likely ALL energy companies know exactly what is going on with the climate as it is their incentive to know if the earth is warming due to human factors. These companies all have some internal research aside from what NASA puts out, but they sure as hell arent going to alarm the public about it.

However I laugh at those who say climate change is a hoax (all the while believing a man 2,000 years ago was crucified and then rose from the dead). There are no absolutes, especially in science... but if I had a question theoretical physics, I would surely trust Stephen Hawking to come up with an answer that is more than likely to be true over Donald Trump or Steve Bannon, laymen in these fields.

Agreed. But this isn't as much about the climate change debate as it is the power. Obama signed off on it without Senate approval - some people took that as overstepping limits. Others are not willing to cede sovereign power to unelected global leaders, and some of us just think it's foolish to spend so much money for such a meager return.

If it's true that all these companies have horrifying secret research they're not releasing, then certainly they'll start working to curb emissions. There's no law saying they can't. And if history is an indicator, the changes that emerge from a free market solution will also save money.

[angelatc]

Did you even watch the speech? He said he's getting out so he can renegotiate it and get back in.

<clip>

Come on, man...you still believe shit that politicians say????

Wait - wot?

[angelatc]

Good, stick the free market where you aren't putting a gun to other people's heads.

Paypal/X. com aside, his whole empire is built on subsidies.

[devil21]

Wait - wot?

What's so hard to understand? Trump's words (which btw are worth squat without a signature to withdraw, as principal of the corporate United States Inc entity, that revokes Obama's signature, as previous principal, to get in) were that the Paris Accord is a bad deal for the US and his plan is to pull out so the terms can be renegotiated and then sign back up. What's the point of signing back up to an obvious carbon tax scheme under "better terms"? That's like saying you'd rather be scammed out of $500 than $1000. I think I'd rather not be scammed at all tyvm.

I still struggle to understand why anyone trusts anything from yet another Goldman controlled administration. You simply can't believe anything they say.

https://media.giphy.com/media/l3q2TGhB8qZhs1tny/giphy.gif

[Madison320]

I think pulling out of of the agreement is a good thing, but my guess is that it's a tiny fraction of what makes us uncompetitive globally. Taxes are probably the biggest, followed by other regulations and lawsuits. And cutting taxes doesn't help unless you cut spending and actually bring down the debt. Cutting spending, that's the hard part.

[FSP-Rebel]

871009942429474816

[Danke]

Al Gore has another movie coming out July 28.

[angelatc]

What's so hard to understand? Trump's words (which btw are worth squat without a signature to withdraw, as principal of the corporate United States Inc entity, that revokes Obama's signature, as previous principal, to get in) were that the Paris Accord is a bad deal for the US and his plan is to pull out so the terms can be renegotiated and then sign back up. What's the point of signing back up to an obvious carbon tax scheme under "better terms"? That's like saying you'd rather be scammed out of $500 than $1000. I think I'd rather not be scammed at all tyvm.

I still struggle to understand why anyone trusts anything from yet another Goldman controlled administration. You simply can't believe anything they say.

httny/giphy.gif

Is he lying when he says he isn't renegotiating it, or do you trust him there?

[AuH20]

870394334373437441

[enhanced_deficit]

Trump should have just said that as long as we are global policeman of the globe, our massive non-green bombs and extremely fuel-inefficient wars machinery have such huge impact on the climate + globe that we should drop all these feel good dramas until we address more important issues first. Paris is wrong city for global concerns given their horrible role in Libya/Syria ISIS warming and global impact.

He need to go back to being the troublemaker for the establishment neocons' owners.


Related

Putin : Don't Worry, Be Happy (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?511262-Putin-Don-t-Worry-Be-Happy&)

[CPUd]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPl3sBPfy1E

[timosman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPl3sBPfy1E

I didn't sell my soul!:cool:

[devil21]

Is he lying when he says he isn't renegotiating it, or do you trust him there?

I don't know what to think, other than in no scenario do I see Trump doing anything that benefits the little guy as long as his entire audience front row is all Goldman/Rothschild/CFR. All of this 'yay Trump' crap that's sprouted from this *whatever it is* announcement is exactly what they needed to herd his dwindling base back onto the plantation for a little while longer.

[nikcers]

If man made climate change is a myth then why are so many people afraid of nuclear war with Russia?

[Dr.3D]

If man made climate change is a myth then why are so many people afraid of nuclear war with Russia?
Because nuclear war would damage the environment.

[Jamesiv1]

If man made climate change is a myth then why are so many people afraid of nuclear war with Russia?
because dead people?

[Dr.3D]

because dead people?
Yep, ones real and the other isn't.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Would Ron Paul stay in or leave the Paris deal?

[nikcers]

Because nuclear war would damage the environment.
That's what I don't understand, if you can consider the ramifications of human technology, and its affect on the environment, and then proceed to say that man cannot change the environment. I thinks its hilarious, like they say the scientists have a financial incentive while using energy companies talking point of saying its fake. I just think its hilarious that the whole left-right false bipartisan bickering has lead people to believe that climate change isn't real because snow.

[nikcers]

Would Ron Paul stay in or leave the Paris deal?
Ron Paul would of let energy companies compete instead of keeping goverment monopolies on energy. We might not even be using oil right now if Trump's friend Reince Priebus didn't rig the 2012 RNC.

[Dr.3D]

That's what I don't understand, if you can consider the ramifications of human technology, and its affect on the environment, and then proceed to say that man cannot change the environment. I thinks its hilarious, like they say the scientists have a financial incentive while using energy companies talking point of saying its fake. I just think its hilarious that the whole left-right false bipartisan bickering has lead people to believe that climate change isn't real because snow.
Well, it all depends on what they claim is causing the damage. Carbon dioxide is a bit different from nuclear fallout. We know fallout is going to do a lot of damage, but it has yet to be proven that carbon dioxide changes the climate anymore than pissing in a Olympic size swimming pool, changes it's salinity.

[nikcers]

Well, it all depends on what they claim is causing the damage. Carbon dioxide is a bit different from nuclear fallout. We know fallout is going to do a lot of damage, but it has yet to be proven that carbon dioxide changes the climate anymore than pissing in a Olympic size swimming pool, changes it's salinity.
Exxon knew about climate change in the 70's, if you are in doubt about it then you are basically doubting the world is round.

[Swordsmyth]

Exxon knew about climate change in the 70's, if you are in doubt about it then you are basically doubting the world is round.

Hogwash, If you trust Exxon you trust the Banksters. If you trust NASA you trust the Banksters. Long term Solar cycles cause "climate change".
Man could not affect "climate change" if we tried. Nature is far bigger and more powerful than we are.

[nikcers]

Hogwash, If you trust Exxon you trust the Banksters. If you trust NASA you trust the Banksters. Long term Solar cycles cause "climate change".
Man could not affect "climate change" if we tried. Nature is far bigger and more powerful than we are.
Those were internal reports that their top scientists were saying, they publicly deny it and have funded lots of misinformation claiming burning fossil fuels doesn't warm the atmosphere and cause climate change.

[Swordsmyth]

Those were internal reports that their top scientists were saying, they publicly deny it and have funded lots of misinformation claiming burning fossil fuels doesn't warm the atmosphere and cause climate change.

They are playing the "BAD GUY" so that simplistic Liberals can point to them and scream. They generated those "internal reports" so they could be exposed as part of the big Con game.

[nikcers]

Nature is far bigger and more powerful than we are.
Man is a part of nature, that's like saying god can cook a frozen burrito so hot in the microwave that even he can't eat it.

[nikcers]

They are playing the "BAD GUY" so that simplistic Liberals can point to them and scream. They generated those "internal reports" so they could be exposed as part of the big Con game.
NO dude, the guy's running the country, the Rex Tillerson's are in charge of government and there is a government monopoly on oil. They don't give a fuck if we fuck up the planet because they are making trillions of dollars off of oil.

[Swordsmyth]

Man is a part of nature, that's like saying god can cook a frozen burrito so hot in the microwave that even he can't eat it.
No man and Nature are separate and opposed forces in this debate. The Libs claim we are more powerful than Nature (everything else) and we are overpowering the normal climate mechanisms, this is ridiculous, it is like saying we could stop the Earths orbit around the sun if we placed enough rocket engines around the globe.

[nikcers]

No man and Nature are separate and opposed forces in this debate. The Libs claim we are more powerful than Nature (everything else) and we are overpowering the normal climate mechanisms, this is ridiculous, it is like saying we could stop the Earths orbit around the sun if we placed enough rocket engines around the globe. That's like saying well if you can land a man on the moon then I guess you can land a man on the sun

[Swordsmyth]

NO dude, the guy's running the country, the Rex Tillerson's are in charge of government and there is a government monopoly on oil. They don't give a $#@! if we $#@! up the planet because they are making trillions of dollars off of oil.

Who says Tillerson wanted us to get out of the Paris treaty? Exxon wanted us in.
Exxon and Conoco Reiterate Support for Paris Climate Dealhttps://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-31/exxon-conoco-back-paris-climate-deal-as-trump-weighs-pact-exit


You are trusting the people who want "carbon taxes" and restricted "carbon credits" to steal even more money and suppress any small or medium businesses that might compete with them.

[Swordsmyth]

That's like saying well if you can land a man on the moon then I guess you can land a man on the sun

You could but he would be burned to death.
And that is in no way an equivalent statement.

[nikcers]

Who says Tillerson wanted us to get out of the Paris treaty? Exxon wanted us in..
Yeah the truth is the Paris deal is a shit deal, and Trump is probably trying to get other countries to contribute more.

[nikcers]

You could but he would be burned to death.
And that is in no way an equivalent statement.
That was my point, right now I burn oil because its cheapest, its cheapest and most convenient because my country sponsors wars in the middle east (which cause a shit ton of climate change). I understand hating liberals, they have banned smoking cigarettes everywhere when breathing in the emissions from a vehicle is more dangerous then second hand smoke.

This is different though, this is government cronyism that is damaging the planet, and the argument of us almost going to war with Russia over fossil fuels comes up every week, I think maybe we could find another way.

[Swordsmyth]

That was my point, right now I burn oil because its cheapest, its cheapest and most convenient because my country sponsors wars in the middle east (which cause a $#@! ton of climate change).
Wars increase the price of Oil.


This is different though, this is government cronyism that is damaging the planet, and the argument of us almost going to war with Russia over fossil fuels comes up every week, I think maybe we could find another way.
The attacks on Oil are an attack on Russia, it being their main income.
And every proposed solution to "climate change" is intended to create even more government cronyism.
And the Planet loves CO2. Plants thrive on it, just like animals thrive on higher Oxygen levels.

[nikcers]

Iran said on Sunday the London attacks were a "wake-up call" and urged Western states to go after ideological and financial sources of terrorism, state media reported, in a thinly veiled reference to Saudi Arabia. (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-security-iran-idUKKBN18V0NX)

[nikcers]

Wars increase the price of Oil.


The attacks on Oil are an attack on Russia, it being their main income.
And every proposed solution to "climate change" is intended to create even more government cronyism.
And the Planet loves CO2. Plants thrive on it, just like animals thrive on higher Oxygen levels.
You thrive on water too, how about you go drink 10 gallons of it and come back to the forums and let me know how it goes.

[nikcers]

Plants thrive on it, just like animals thrive on higher Oxygen levels.
Plants require stupid amounts of conditions to be met to even grow- to thrive they require someone to nurture them, It sounds like you have never planted anything, really.

[Swordsmyth]

You thrive on water too, how about you go drink 10 gallons of it and come back to the forums and let me know how it goes.
No but I will gladly breath doubled oxygen and double pressure for as many hours as you or someone else will pay for, and thank you for the health boost.

[Swordsmyth]

Plants require stupid amounts of conditions to be met to even grow- to thrive they require someone to nurture them, It sounds like you have never planted anything, really.
Who gardens the jungle? or the forest?

[nikcers]

Who gardens the jungle? or the forest?
BEES

[Dr.3D]

Who gardens the jungle? or the forest?
Or for that matter, the algae in the oceans. I understand, more oxygen is produced from that than all of the vegetation in the world.

[nikcers]

Or for that matter, the algae in the oceans. I understand, more oxygen is produced from that than all of the vegetation in the world. more oxygen is produced by Corn in the US then all the rain forests.

[Swordsmyth]

BEES
And they are not allergic to CO2.

[Dr.3D]

more oxygen is produced by Corn in the US then all the rain forests.
That isn't saying much when you compare that to what's produced by algae.


Think about it, 70 percent to 80 percent of all the oxygen we breathe comes from algae!
http://www.ecology.com/2011/09/12/important-organism/

[nikcers]

And they are not allergic to CO2.
you just asked who does the work, gophers help too, they dig really good holes for plants to grow into.

[nikcers]

Think about it, 70 percent to 80 percent of all the oxygen we breathe comes from algae
How much shit do we grow on land versus sea? the ocean is 70% of the global surface area.

[Swordsmyth]

Plants require stupid amounts of conditions to be met to even grow- to thrive they require someone to nurture them, It sounds like you have never planted anything, really.


Who gardens the jungle? or the forest?


BEES


you just asked who does the work, gophers help too, they dig really good holes for plants to grow into.

So then what did all this have to do with CO2 then?
Or the implied lack of someone to nurture them?

[Dr.3D]

How much shit do we grow on land versus sea? the ocean is 70% of the global surface area.
Exactly! And those algae convert carbon dioxide to oxygen.

[nikcers]

So then what did all this have to do with CO2 then?
Or the implied lack of someone to nurture them? you said that increasing c02 will just help plants grow, when plants require other things, like water to grow. God I feel like this is some plot to a movie about idiots.

[acptulsa]

you said that increasing c02 will just help plants grow, when plants require other things, like water to grow. God I feel like this is some plot to a movie about idiots.

It is.

Heat promotes rainfall. The planet is extremely good at evening things out. Yet the oil companies and the nuclear bomb makers want CO2 declared a poison so we'll just leave all our coal energy in the ground and use oil, and build more reactors to make more weapons-grade plutonium.

Carbon dioxide as poison. What a concept. The plants have a second opinion, if anyone would care to ask. Cultivated or growing wild, they will thrive on the stuff. It's what they do.

What the planet cannot easily rid itself of are real poisons like half-burned hydrocarbons and radioactive waste. Compared to those, particularly the latter, disposing of excess CO2 is a cakewalk.

[nikcers]

Carbon dioxide as poison. What a concept. The plants have a second opinion, if anyone would care to ask. Cultivated or growing wild, they will thrive on the stuff. It's what they do.
That's a very dishonest way of putting it, changing the water cycle is changing the water cycle, yes some plants will do okay or even slightly better, but the plants that a lot of human populations live off of will not get water.

[Swordsmyth]

you said that increasing c02 will just help plants grow, when plants require other things, like water to grow.
And my point is they have those other things.


God I feel like this is some plot to a movie about idiots.
Then stop being one.

[Swordsmyth]

That's a very dishonest way of putting it, changing the water cycle is changing the water cycle, yes some plants will do okay or even slightly better, but the plants that a lot of human populations live off of will not get water.

We water our agricultural fields.

[nikcers]

We water our agricultural fields.
Yeah but we also burn down forests that won't get water to grow back to make cooking oil, the second richest country by GDP cooks with gutter oil.

[Danke]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHFfOOF-6Fs

[Swordsmyth]

Yeah but we also burn down forests that won't get water to grow back to make cooking oil, the second richest country by GDP cooks with gutter oil.

Now you are trying to change the subject.
But in any case higher temperatures means more ocean evaporation, and therefore more rain, And more CO2 causes plants to need less water.

More CO2 Means Less Water Stress for Plants
Another major benefit of atmospheric CO2 enrichment is that plants exposed to elevated levels of atmospheric CO2 generally do not open their leaf stomatal pores - through which they take in carbon dioxide and give off water vapor - as wide as they do at lower CO2 concentrations. In addition, they tend to produce less of these pores per unit area of leaf surface at higher levels of atmospheric CO2. Both of these changes tend to reduce most plants' rates of water loss by transpiration; and the amount of carbon they gain per unit of water lost - or water-use efficiency - therefore typically rises, greatly increasing their ability to withstand drought.

http://plantsneedco2.org/default.aspx?menuitemid=329

[Swordsmyth]

The many ramifications of these several atmospheric CO2 enrichment effects on plant water relations are truly impressive. As the atmosphere's carbon dioxide concentration rises ever higher in the years ahead, nearly all plants should be able to grow where it is presently too dry for them, enabling the most drought-resistant species to reclaim great tracts of land previously lost to desertification. Greater vegetative cover should also reduce the adverse effects of soil erosion caused by the ravages of wind and rain.

http://plantsneedco2.org/default.aspx?menuitemid=329

[nikcers]

Now you are trying to change the subject.
But in any case higher temperatures means more ocean evaporation, and therefore more rain, And more CO2 causes plants to need less water.
You can't print rain by increasing the heat, that's like saying you can print money. There is always X amount of rain, all you are doing is allocating the rain in a different spot, different then it would occur naturally. By allocating rain differently you might even decrease the total output of rain or increase it, when plants require certain amounts in order to grow. Its like drinking 10 gallons of water will kill you.

[Dr.3D]

You can't print rain by increasing the heat, that's like saying you can print money. There is always X amount of rain, all you are doing is allocating the rain in a different spot, different then it would occur naturally. By allocating rain differently you might even decrease the total output of rain or increase it, when plants require certain amounts in order to grow. Its like drinking 10 gallons of water will kill you.
Actually, the psychrometric chart shows that warm air holds more moisture than cold air, so if it gets warmer, there will be more moisture in the air and thus more rainfall when the air finally cools to the dew point temperature.

[nikcers]

Actually, the psychrometric chart shows that warm air holds more moisture than cold air, so if it gets warmer, there will be more moisture in the air and thus more rainfall when the air finally cools to the dew point temperature. not if you change where it falls, if it falls in the ocean what does that help?

[Swordsmyth]

You can't print rain by increasing the heat, that's like saying you can print money. There is always X amount of rain, all you are doing is allocating the rain in a different spot, different then it would occur naturally. By allocating rain differently you might even decrease the total output of rain or increase it, when plants require certain amounts in order to grow. Its like drinking 10 gallons of water will kill you.
More water evaporates faster in higher heat. You have obviously never lived in Arizona.
Zero heat= Zero Rain More Heat= More Rain.
And more CO2 causes plants to need less water.



More CO2 Means Less Water Stress for Plants
Another major benefit of atmospheric CO2 enrichment is that plants exposed to elevated levels of atmospheric CO2 generally do not open their leaf stomatal pores - through which they take in carbon dioxide and give off water vapor - as wide as they do at lower CO2 concentrations. In addition, they tend to produce less of these pores per unit area of leaf surface at higher levels of atmospheric CO2. Both of these changes tend to reduce most plants' rates of water loss by transpiration; and the amount of carbon they gain per unit of water lost - or water-use efficiency - therefore typically rises, greatly increasing their ability to withstand drought.

http://plantsneedco2.org/default.aspx?menuitemid=329


The many ramifications of these several atmospheric CO2 enrichment effects on plant water relations are truly impressive. As the atmosphere's carbon dioxide concentration rises ever higher in the years ahead, nearly all plants should be able to grow where it is presently too dry for them, enabling the most drought-resistant species to reclaim great tracts of land previously lost to desertification. Greater vegetative cover should also reduce the adverse effects of soil erosion caused by the ravages of wind and rain.

http://plantsneedco2.org/default.aspx?menuitemid=329

[Brian4Liberty]

We arent meeting the benchmarks for carbon emissions regardless of the deal being in effect. If i had to guess, its quite likely ALL energy companies know exactly what is going on with the climate as it is their incentive to know if the earth is warming due to human factors. These companies all have some internal research aside from what NASA puts out, but they sure as hell arent going to alarm the public about it.

However I laugh at those who say climate change is a hoax (all the while believing a man 2,000 years ago was crucified and then rose from the dead). There are no absolutes, especially in science... but if I had a question theoretical physics, I would surely trust Stephen Hawking to come up with an answer that is more than likely to be true over Donald Trump or Steve Bannon, laymen in these fields.


Agreed. But this isn't as much about the climate change debate as it is the power. Obama signed off on it without Senate approval - some people took that as overstepping limits. Others are not willing to cede sovereign power to unelected global leaders, and some of us just think it's foolish to spend so much money for such a meager return.

If it's true that all these companies have horrifying secret research they're not releasing, then certainly they'll start working to curb emissions. There's no law saying they can't. And if history is an indicator, the changes that emerge from a free market solution will also save money.

Seems that when the whole global warming hysteria was in the first stages, the internal studies showed that it was overblown. They covered those up and continued to push for crony globalist solutions...


...Enron commissioned its own internal study of global warming science. It turned out to be largely in agreement with the same scientists Enron was trying to shut up. After considering all of the inconsistencies in climate science, the report concluded: “[T]he very real possibility that the great climate alarm could be a false alarm. The anthropogenic warming could well be less than thought and favorably distributed.”

One of Enron’s major consultants in that study was NASA scientists James Hansen, who started the whole global warming mess in 1988 with his bombastic congressional testimony. Last month, he published a paper in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences predicting exactly the same, inconsequential amount of warming in the next 50 years as the scientists that Enron wanted to gag. They were a decade ahead of NASA.

True to its plan, Enron never made its own findings public, self-censoring them while it pleaded with the new Bush administration for a cap on carbon dioxide emissions that it could broker. That pleading continues today — the remnant-Enron still views global warming regulation as the straw that will raise it from its corporate oblivion.
...
https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/why-enron-wants-global-warming

[Dr.3D]

not if you change where it falls, if it falls in the ocean what does that help?
Why would it fall into the ocean? Typically, the cooler air will be found at the higher altitudes, so it is going to fall where the mountains force the warm moist air to a higher altitude.

[nikcers]

Why would it fall into the ocean? Typically, the cooler air will be found at the higher altitudes, so it is going to fall where the mountains force the warm moist air to a higher altitude. Well its not like the sun is getting hotter and that's what is causing the evaporation of more water, to create more rainfall. That's why only certain areas will get more rain fall, because certain areas of the globe will meet the conditions in order to create rain easier. Dry places will have a harder time, when it rains it will pour, and it will pour hard, but since there will be longer dry spells there will be more floods.

[Swordsmyth]

Well its not like the sun is getting hotter and that's what is causing the evaporation of more water, to create more rainfall. That's why only certain areas will get more rain fall, because certain areas of the globe will meet the conditions in order to create rain easier. Dry places will have a harder time, when it rains it will pour, and it will pour hard, but since there will be longer dry spells there will be more floods.
Then they will cease to be "dry places" and plants will encroach and moderate their climate.

[Dr.3D]

Well its not like the sun is getting hotter and that's what is causing the evaporation of more water, to create more rainfall. That's why only certain areas will get more rain fall, because certain areas of the globe will meet the conditions in order to create rain easier. Dry places will have a harder time, when it rains it will pour, and it will pour hard, but since there will be longer dry spells there will be more floods.
That's just not scientific. I suppose the reason other planets around our star were losing their ice caps was because we had somehow exported some of our carbon dioxide to them. lol

It rains because the warm moist air is cooled, either by elevation to a higher altitude or by a cold front coming through. The reason we have desert areas is because the prevailing winds lift the warm moist air over a mountain chain and cool it before it can get to the arid region on the other side of the mountain. Yep, the west side of a mountain is bound to get more rain when the prevailing wind is from the west.

[nikcers]

Then they will cease to be "dry places" and plants will encroach and moderate their climate.
No they will get drier, its not like we are getting hotter, think of it like a coffee thermos, it keeps cold stuff cold and hot stuff hot. The difference is like night and day, if you take the desert for example, and take away the night, and nothing gets to cool off, then you are not going to have anything growing there. Global warming takes away the cooling we get from night time, at night it won't cool off as much, the heat is trapped in.

[Swordsmyth]

No they will get drier, its not like we are getting hotter, think of it like a coffee thermos, it keeps cold stuff cold and hot stuff hot. The difference is like night and day, if you take the desert for example, and take away the night, and nothing gets to cool off, then you are not going to have anything growing there. Global warming takes away the cooling we get from night time, at night it won't cool off as much, the heat is trapped in.

You mean like the JUNGLE/RAIN-FOREST, that "holy" "temple" of environmentalism that is teeming with plants?

[nikcers]

That's just not scientific. I suppose the reason other planets around our star were losing their ice caps was because we had somehow exported some of our carbon dioxide to them. lol

Venus is like proof positive of the "green house effect" and how good it is at sustaining life.

[Dr.3D]

Venus is like proof positive of the "green house effect" and how good it is at sustaining life.

So now you are claiming that Venus once had life?

[nikcers]

You mean like the JUNGLE/RAIN-FOREST, that "holy" "temple" of environmentalism that is teeming with plants?
No I am talking about the mass migrations that will happen when all of these coastal regions begin to start being flooded and they can't grow food anymore. What I am saying is build the damn wall Mr Trump.

[nikcers]

So now you are claiming that Venus once had life?
No just that Methane raises the temperature of the planet by trapping the heat inside because Venus is hot as fuck and has an atmosphere of Methane?

[Dr.3D]

No just that Methane raises the temperature of the planet by trapping the heat inside because Venus is hot as fuck and has an atmosphere of Methane?
It's also a heck of a lot closer to the Sun.

[Swordsmyth]

Venus is like proof positive of the "green house effect" and how good it is at sustaining life.
Proof positive that life requires water.

[nikcers]

It's also a heck of a lot closer to the Sun.

the most Earth-like atmosphere in the solar system occurs 30 to 40 miles (50 to 60 kilometers) above the surface of Venus.

Okay but if you go outside of its methane hellhole its actually kind of nice. A lot of people argue Venus is in the goldylocks zone.

[Swordsmyth]

No they will get drier, its not like we are getting hotter, think of it like a coffee thermos, it keeps cold stuff cold and hot stuff hot. The difference is like night and day, if you take the desert for example, and take away the night, and nothing gets to cool off, then you are not going to have anything growing there. Global warming takes away the cooling we get from night time, at night it won't cool off as much, the heat is trapped in.


You mean like the JUNGLE/RAIN-FOREST, that "holy" "temple" of environmentalism that is teeming with plants?


No I am talking about the mass migrations that will happen when all of these coastal regions begin to start being flooded and they can't grow food anymore. What I am saying is build the damn wall Mr Trump.


That is not what you were saying.
And the flooding argument is BUNK. The Oceans are not rising significantly nor will they, more plants will hold more water on land.
And Deserts don't have much population, and don't grow much food right now, but those areas will support more life with increased CO2 and rainfall.

[Dr.3D]

Okay but if you go outside of its methane hellhole its actually kind of nice. A lot of people argue Venus is in the goldylocks zone.
Yeah, and the higher you fly in our atmosphere, the cooler it is too. Like I said, it's hot there because it's closer to the Sun.

[Swordsmyth]

the most Earth-like atmosphere in the solar system occurs 30 to 40 miles (50 to 60 kilometers) above the surface of Venus.
Okay but if you go outside of its methane hellhole its actually kind of nice. A lot of people argue Venus is in the goldylocks zone.

Because so much life can live 30 to 40 miles (50 to 60 kilometers) above the surface.

[nikcers]

That is not what you were saying.
And the flooding argument is BUNK. The Oceans are not rising significantly nor will they, more plants will hold more water on land.
And Deserts don't have much population, and don't grow much food right now, but those areas will support more life with increased CO2 and rainfall.

Perma frost, ice that hasn't melted for thousands of years is melting, and that will raise the ocean. Yeah this could be something along the lines of a long term planetary cycle but we don't know that, but we do know trapping heat inside the atmosphere isn't helping the perma frost stay permanantly frozen.

[Swordsmyth]

Perma frost, ice that hasn't melted for thousands of years is melting, and that will raise the ocean. Yeah this could be something along the lines of a long term planetary cycle but we don't know that, but we do know trapping heat inside the atmosphere isn't helping the perma frost stay permanantly frozen.

And warmer air holds more water as humidity, and more plant growth (in former desert/tundra) holds more water in the plants and in the soil.

[nikcers]

Because so much life can live 30 to 40 miles (50 to 60 kilometers) above the surface. Yeah but that doesn't mean that a different atmosphere on Venus wouldn't create different results on the land. Ellon Musk halfway joked about letting off a bunch of nukes on mars in order to create enough global warming on mars for it be warm enough for life. the goldylocks zone just means that it has enough energy from the star and not too much.

[Swordsmyth]

Yeah but that doesn't mean that a different atmosphere on Venus wouldn't create different results on the land. Ellon Musk halfway joked about letting off a bunch of nukes on mars in order to create enough global warming on mars for it be warm enough for life. the goldylocks zone just means that it has enough energy from the star and not too much.

Venus has too much and no water.

[nikcers]

Venus has too much and no water.
Yeah but if it had the right ingredients you could make a cake. It's got a good seat in the oven just didn't get the right ingredients. Mercury would have no chance, but with the right ingredients Venus or mars would probably be a good vacation. The idea though is we have a lot of ingredients trapped in the ice that once it gets let out of the ice it no longer helps us cool off but makes us more like Venus.

[Swordsmyth]

Yeah but if it had the right ingredients you could make a cake. It's got a good seat in the oven just didn't get the right ingredients. Mercury would have no chance, but with the right ingredients Venus or mars would probably be a good vacation. The idea though is we have a lot of ingredients trapped in the ice that once it gets let out of the ice it no longer helps us cool off but makes us more like Venus.
Melting ice and permafrost add water Venus has NO water, it makes us less like Venus.

[nikcers]

Melting ice and permafrost add water Venus has NO water, it makes us less like Venus.
No I am talking about the greenhouse gasses that are trapped in the permafrost.

[Swordsmyth]

No I am talking about the greenhouse gasses that are trapped in the permafrost.
And ignoring the water aspect.
Earth might become a jungle planet (unlikely) but it will never become Venus.
More heat= more evaporation= more cloud cover= more reflection of solar radiation.

[nikcers]

And ignoring the water aspect.
Earth might become a jungle planet (unlikely) but it will never become Venus.
More heat= more evaporation= more cloud cover= more reflection of solar radiation.
I don't think you understand its going to be too hot like Venus, and have harsher seasons that most life on earth won't be able to cope with. It's not going to change into a planet full of methane, but it could change the face of all of life on earth, and most likely man. You can't reflect heat if its trapped.

[Swordsmyth]

I don't think you understand its going to be too hot like Venus
Not even close.


and have harsher seasons that most life on earth won't be able to cope with.
Milder seasons with less fluctuation.


It's not going to change into a planet full of methane, but it could change the face of all of life on earth, and most likely man.
"The sky is falling, the sky is falling for a piece of it has hit me on the head."
nikcers (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?61527-nikcers)
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/statusicon/user-online.png
Member
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/customavatars/avatar61527_5.gif (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?61527-nikcers)

Please watch out for foxy loxy, chicken little.

You can't reflect heat if its trapped.

"Greenhouse Gases" let heat out, they are not a perfect blanket, More clouds mean more reflection and less absorption by the oceans and land mass.

[nikcers]

Not even close.


Milder seasons with less fluctuation.


"The sky is falling, the sky is falling for a piece of it has hit me on the head."


"Greenhouse Gases" let heat out, they are not a perfect blanket, More clouds mean more reflection and less absorption by the oceans and land mass.
Do you believe everything president Exxon tells you?

[Swordsmyth]

Do you believe everything president Exxon tells you?

Apparently you believe everything Al Gore tells you.

[nikcers]

Apparently you believe everything Al Gore tells you.
No I just hope that when society crashes if we ever try this again we elect more doctors and scientists.

[Swordsmyth]

No I just hope that when society crashes if we ever try this again we elect more doctors and scientists.
I would prefer engineers they have less of a tendency to think they know everything and are masters of the universe. (the Dr.s Paul excepted)

[timosman]

I would prefer engineers they have less of a tendency to think they know everything and are masters of the universe. (the Dr.s Paul excepted)

Engineers have a tendency to overengineer and can be led by a nose using simple con tricks. They think the high IQ provides them with immunity. Not the smartest bunch. :cool:

[timosman]

Why not declare carbon illegal and halt its use?:rolleyes:

[Swordsmyth]

Engineers have a tendency to overengineer
It's better than underengineering.


and can be led by a nose using simple con tricks. They think the high IQ provides them with immunity. Not the smartest bunch.:cool:
???
They tend to be more practical since they deal with real world consequences.

[Swordsmyth]

Why not declare carbon illegal and halt its use?:rolleyes:
Or confiscate all carbon, starting with Al Gore's.

[timosman]

It's better than underengineering.

Not by much.



???
They tend to be more practical since they deal with real world consequences.

They are too far removed from the money to even know what the real world consequences are. Can you rewrite this system in Go? M'kay, thanks. :cool:

[nikcers]

Why not declare carbon illegal and halt its use?:rolleyes:
We wouldn't have a carbon problem if Ron Paul was president instead of Shrek we wouldn't have oil CEOS running our foreign policy.

[Swordsmyth]

We wouldn't have a carbon problem if Ron Paul was president instead of Shrek we wouldn't have oil CEOS running our foreign policy.
There is no Carbon problem, which is good because Ron Paul's policies would result in less regulation, less taxes, and less Mid-East wars that push up the price of oil/coal/natural gas etc. and we would produce even more CO2, Meanwhile the sun is warming the planet no matter who is in charge.

[Origanalist]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBgxMWDUQAAl0wM.jpg

[Origanalist]

No I just hope that when society crashes if we ever try this again we elect more doctors and scientists.

I hope we don't elect anyone. None of this "electing" crap seems to be helping.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Venus is like proof positive of the "green house effect" and how good it is at sustaining life.


[/FONT][/COLOR]Okay but if you go outside of its methane hellhole its actually kind of nice. A lot of people argue Venus is in the goldylocks zone.[/QUOTE]


Yeah but that doesn't mean that a different atmosphere on Venus wouldn't create different results on the land.

...the goldylocks zone just means that it has enough energy from the star and not too much.


Yeah but if it had the right ingredients you could make a cake. It's got a good seat in the oven just didn't get the right ingredients. Mercury would have no chance, but with the right ingredients Venus or mars would probably be a good vacation. The idea though is we have a lot of ingredients trapped in the ice that once it gets let out of the ice it no longer helps us cool off but makes us more like Venus.


I don't think you understand its going to be too hot like Venus,



http://rs247.pbsrc.com/albums/gg143/Kitty_Shadow/Emoticons/Smilies/9de80c77.gif~c200

[Danke]

HYPOCRITES: 1700 Private Jets Fly Into Davos To Discuss “Climate Change”
Posted on June 2, 2017

The globalist elite are flying in by the thousands (and paying $40,000 just to get a seat) to attend the “World Economic Forum in Davos – a hodgepodge of international leaders, mega-rich business interests, and a sprinkling of celebrities whose money comes from those mega-rich business interests.

Topic #1 is said to be the threat of “climate change” which is actually code for the threat of Donald Trump who just this week took a much appreciated “America First” approach to international agreements.

image: http://media.breitbart.com/media/2015/01/private-jet-AP-640x480.jpg




1700 private jets is an atrocity for anyone who genuinely feels alarmed by “climate change.”

Just one private jet flight from New York to Paris produces more CO2 than the typical American produces in an entire year.

If these people were truly concerned about “climate change” why the use of 1700 private jets? Why the high-priced meals with items like Kobe Beef and salmon flown in from across the globe? Why the $40000 cost to attend?

It’s a hoax. A scam. A money-shifting chess game whereby international corporations and anti-American nations are hoping to play upon the fears and emotions of the simple-minded that human beings can actually alter the weather over the next century even as we struggle to predict the weather next week.

Wake up. Get real. And tell these anti-American globalists to go to hell. They can take one of their private jets. That way they don’t have to wait in line.


Read more at http://dcwhispers.com/hypocrites-1700-private-jets-fly-davos-discuss-climate-change/#sypQpiwpsZySkoPD.99

[nikcers]

1700 private jets is an atrocity for anyone who genuinely feels alarmed by “climate change.”

Just one private jet flight from New York to Paris produces more CO2 than the typical American produces in an entire year.

Wake up. Get real. And tell these anti-American globalists to go to hell. They can take one of their private jets. That way they don’t have to wait in line.

well good thing is they could fly around all year long and still pale in comparison to what Americans produce in one year. They would have to make like 176 thousand private trips in their jet. That's just America though, the whole world lis polluting up a fucking storm, and flying around in a jet isn't shit compared to what we do as a whole which is something that is worth discussing.

[Swordsmyth]

well good thing is they could fly around all year long and still pale in comparison to what Americans produce in one year. They would have to make like 176 thousand private trips in their jet. That's just America though, the whole world lis polluting up a $#@!ing storm, and flying around in a jet isn't $#@! compared to what we do as a whole which is something that is worth discussing.

So "Do as I say not as I do" works for you? Enjoy your chains pal.

[nikcers]

So "Do as I say not as I do" works for you? Enjoy your chains pal.
No I don't think it's practical for everyone to have a private jet, but as a libertarian I think if you can afford one you should be able to afford one. If there are ways that we can change the way we produce energy through coal that captures the c02 don't you think we should do it? If there are ways of polluting less, as a whole, without sacrificing industry or jobs don't you think it might be worth it?

[Swordsmyth]

No I don't think it's practical for everyone to have a private jet, but as a libertarian I think if you can afford one you should be able to afford one. If there are ways that we can change the way we produce energy through coal that captures the c02 don't you think we should do it? If there are ways of polluting less, as a whole, without sacrificing industry or jobs don't you think it might be worth it?
Pollutants yes (up to a reasonable point) if it is handled in a libertarian way, CO2 NO, it is NOT a Pollutant.

[Danke]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEPW_P7GVB8

[Madison320]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEPW_P7GVB8

I totally agree with that guy. The earth has been warming and cooling for billions of years.

[merkelstan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52Mx0_8YEtg

Sorry if it's been posted before. It's good stuff, plus it has a smart sounding narrator with a British accent, so it will work on the stupid.

[merkelstan]

Probably the most flagrant deception in the whole swindle is the ice core data.

Al Gore and his Convenient Lie buddies have continuously presented the public with the ice core data showing a correlation between CO2 levels and temperatures over the past few hundred thousand years:

https://static.skepticalscience.com/images/Milankovitch_Cycles_400000.gifhttps://abload.de/img/milankovitch_cycles_4zkky6.gif

They say "see? PROOF that CO2 causes temperature swings!"

But what they don't show you is that at this resolution, it's impossible to tell which came first, the temperature change or CO2 change. However a closer look shows that temperature rises precede the CO2 rise by an average of 800 YEARS!

That's enough for the ambient temperature gain to warm-up the oceans, which act as buffers, and release stored CO2 to the atmosphere, not to mention allowing permafrost regions to thaw and release CO2 from decaying plant matter.

So by crude sleight of hand they reverse CAUSE and EFFECT, just like they do in so many other areas like economics and the war on terror.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/12/26/co2-ice-cores-vs-plant-stomata/
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/01/30/co2-temperatures-and-ice-ages/

Cheers!

[Madison320]

Probably the most flagrant deception in the whole swindle is the ice core data.

For me it's just basic logic. As far as I know there's very little disagreement among scientists that the earth is approximately 4 to 5 billion years old and has gone through thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of temperature changes like what we've experienced over the last 100 years. Why is this ONE time caused by man?

Another thing that bothers me is the micro time horizons used by the warming "scientists". They draw conclusions from a few years of data. Climate change cycles last thousands of years. Do they not know the earth is billions of years old? You'd think they were creationists judging by their time increments.

[devil21]

Kim Jong-Un chided Trump for pulling out of the Paris Accord?

LOL! That's what I call narratively "jumping the shark".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4580136/Kim-blasts-Trump-pulling-Paris-climate-deal.html


North Korea has slammed President Donald Trump for pulling out of the Paris climate agreement.

A Foreign Ministry spokesman described Trump's decision as 'the height of egotism' on Tuesday and said it was an example of the United States 'seeking only their own well-being'.

'Global warming is one of the gravest challenges that humankind is facing today', the official told the state-run KCNA news agency on Tuesday.

[timosman]

For me it's just basic logic. As far as I know there's very little disagreement among scientists that the earth is approximately 4 to 5 billion years old and has gone through thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of temperature changes like what we've experienced over the last 100 years. Why is this ONE time caused by man?

Another thing that bothers me is the micro time horizons used by the warming "scientists". They draw conclusions from a few years of data. Climate change cycles last thousands of years. Do they not know the earth is billions of years old? You'd think they were creationists judging by their time increments.

A neanderthal finds a thermometer. Now everything looks too hot or too cold.:rolleyes:

[nikcers]

Kim Jong-Un chided Trump for pulling out of the Paris Accord?

LOL! That's what I call narratively "jumping the shark".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4580136/Kim-blasts-Trump-pulling-Paris-climate-deal.html
This is assuming that Trump isn't going to demand more from other countries. The reason why the MSM is presenting this argument is they are trying to drum Americans into wanting the country to do more, and they are going to enforce the idea that America has to police the world against pollution. Trump leaving the Paris deal doesn't signal to other countries that we are not serious about this issue, its Trump pulling out of this deal so he can demand other countries do more otherwise there will be consequences. Other countries that are chiding Trump for doing this are just sending a signal that they are not going to go to the table for any future "deals"

[devil21]

This is assuming that Trump isn't going to demand more from other countries. The reason why the MSM is presenting this argument is they are trying to drum Americans into wanting the country to do more, and they are going to enforce the idea that America has to police the world against pollution. Trump leaving the Paris deal doesn't signal to other countries that we are not serious about this issue, its Trump pulling out of this deal so he can demand other countries do more otherwise there will be consequences. Other countries that are chiding Trump for doing this are just sending a signal that they are not going to go to the table for any future "deals"

I don't know what all that blather above is about but be serious. The most isolated country in the world is really talking about global warming and global agreements? It just fully convinced me that NK/Jong-Un is fully part of the script and part of the "the team".

[CPUd]

NK is serious about turning off the lights when you leave the room:

http://i.imgur.com/Lo7WWvd.jpg

[Madison320]

I don't know what all that blather above is about but be serious. The most isolated country in the world is really talking about global warming and global agreements? It just fully convinced me that NK/Jong-Un is fully part of the script and part of the "the team".

That's a really good point. That really put's it in perspective, doesn't it? Yeah, sure Jong is really worried about climate change. Duh.

[nikcers]

I don't know what all that blather above is about but be serious. The most isolated country in the world is really talking about global warming and global agreements? It just fully convinced me that NK/Jong-Un is fully part of the script and part of the "the team".
Come on, you don't think the government could possible come up with one of their famous "war on" rackets? You can't possibly conceive of a government war on man made climate change, something that the pentagon says is more dangerous then terrorism? You don't think the government could create a war against something it created?

[merkelstan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzCXwF39enc


And for those who can handle a bit of math and graphs, possibly the greatest warrior for climate truth: Murray Salby

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCya4LilBZ8&amp;t=0s

Note that his research data was STOLEN by his university... He predicts his research will 'never be published'.

[Brian4Liberty]

HYPOCRITES: 1700 Private Jets Fly Into Davos To Discuss “Climate Change”
Posted on June 2, 2017

The globalist elite are flying in by the thousands (and paying $40,000 just to get a seat) to attend the “World Economic Forum in Davos – a hodgepodge of international leaders, mega-rich business interests, and a sprinkling of celebrities whose money comes from those mega-rich business interests.

Topic #1 is said to be the threat of “climate change” which is actually code for the threat of Donald Trump who just this week took a much appreciated “America First” approach to international agreements.

image: http://media.breitbart.com/media/2015/01/private-jet-AP-640x480.jpg




1700 private jets is an atrocity for anyone who genuinely feels alarmed by “climate change.”

Just one private jet flight from New York to Paris produces more CO2 than the typical American produces in an entire year.

If these people were truly concerned about “climate change” why the use of 1700 private jets? Why the high-priced meals with items like Kobe Beef and salmon flown in from across the globe? Why the $40000 cost to attend?

It’s a hoax. A scam. A money-shifting chess game whereby international corporations and anti-American nations are hoping to play upon the fears and emotions of the simple-minded that human beings can actually alter the weather over the next century even as we struggle to predict the weather next week.

Wake up. Get real. And tell these anti-American globalists to go to hell. They can take one of their private jets. That way they don’t have to wait in line.


Read more at http://dcwhispers.com/hypocrites-1700-private-jets-fly-davos-discuss-climate-change/#sypQpiwpsZySkoPD.99

Crazy conspiracy talk. Nothing to see here.

[merkelstan]

“I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives.” - Leo Tolstoy

[devil21]

That's a really good point. That really put's it in perspective, doesn't it? Yeah, sure Jong is really worried about climate change. Duh.

Global warming, not climate change. And global UN carbon taxation scams. Come on. The media took it too far.

[Brian4Liberty]

Cross-post. Why the climate change hysteria?


It's just a means to their desire for an unaccountable global government. The need for a global threat to unite the world has been openly discussed many times, and "climate change" is their latest and best contrived emergency. Global accords and agreements eventually lead to more global bodies, and the end game is enforcement power backed by military.

An unelected, unaccountable global power controlled by the elite crony plutocracy that today meets at Davos, at Bilderberg, at Bohemian Grove, and at a whole variety of gatherings and industry (banking, MIC, energy, etc) steering sub-committees.

[Brian4Liberty]

Global warming, not climate change. And global UN carbon taxation scams. Come on. The media took it too far.

Global taxation power. We can't forget that globalist dream.

[Danke]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T43vc4NZUUc

[William Tell]

Good.

Too good to be true, in fact. Or we will get a 'better' Paris globalist pact. We'll see.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?515004-Trump-folds-again-Now-US-will-NOT-be-pulling-out-of-Paris-Climate-Accord

[timosman]

Global taxation power. We can't forget that globalist dream.

http://soil4234.okstate.edu/index_02.jpg

[Swordsmyth]

Too good to be true, in fact. Or we will get a 'better' Paris globalist pact. We'll see.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?515004-Trump-folds-again-Now-US-will-NOT-be-pulling-out-of-Paris-Climate-Accord


They won't give us a "Better deal", so there will be no deal.

[nikcers]

They won't give us a "Better deal", so there will be no deal.

Let's not beat around the Bush, They are China and Russia- it's geopolitical economic aggression. It's the Obama doctrine

[Swordsmyth]

Let's not beat around the Bush, They are China and Russia- it's geopolitical economic aggression. It's the Obama doctrine

You left out the EU and the third world.