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View Full Version : Manchester suicide attack lays bare limits of security measures




Anti Federalist
05-23-2017, 09:14 AM
Some refreshing honesty at last.

You can turn your country into a living hell of a police/security state and you will still not solve this problem.

So, the choices are:

A) Live with it. Bury your dead (or what's left of them) every so often when these incidents occur, hold pointless, useless and hopeless "vigils" and tack plush toys and flowers to some security fence.

B) Remove yourself from the wars being waged that are creating suicide bombers, and stop importing them by the hundreds of thousands into your country.


Manchester suicide attack lays bare limits of security measures

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-security-manchester-globalven-idUSKBN18J0N5?il=0

By Kaori Kaneko and John Irish | TOKYO/PARIS

Countries across the world will tighten security ahead of major cultural and sports events after a suicide bombing in Britain that killed at least 22 people, but experts say reinforced measures will do little to prevent determined individuals.

Given the target being a Manchester pop concert, the latest attack to hit Europe had echoes of the coordinated attacks in November 2015 by Islamist militants on the Bataclan concert hall and France's national soccer stadium that killed 130 people.

Since those attacks, France has been in a state of emergency and seen thousands of soldiers patrolling its streets alongside police to protect tourist sites, government buildings and events.

That has not stopped a raft of attacks in the country, such as the truck attack in Nice on Bastille Day last July, by "lone-wolf" assailants who did not use a network of fellow militants -- all lessening the risk of alerting security agencies.

"Whatever is done - and in this case it's British intelligence which is considered among the best in the world - it won't prevent such incidents happening," said Jean-Charles Brisard, president of the Centre for the Analysis of Terrorism.

"You can bring back the perimeter, add security gates and as many controls as you want, but that will not change the fact that a determined individual will carry out his act if he is not caught before."

After a meeting with security and intelligence chiefs, Prime Minister Theresa May said police believed they knew the identity of the bomber. The attack was claimed by Islamic State.

London's mayor said there would be more police on the streets of the capital after the attack at the end of a concert by U.S. singer Ariana Grande in Manchester, 200 miles (320 km)north of London.

Officials in several other countries on Tuesday also sought to reassure their citizens following Monday's attack.

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security warned that the U.S. public may experience increased security at public events.

Hong Kong's AsiaWorld Expo, where Grande is due to hold a concert in September, said it would improve security at all concerts and events. Besides baggage inspection, there would also be metal detectors and search dogs, it said in a statement.

SM investments Corp, whose Mall of Asia Arena in the Philippine capital will host Grande in August, said it would take all precautions. "Our security is always stepped up especially for big crowds like this," said SM investment relations chief Corazon Guidote.

Sports events organizers were also looking into security. European soccer body UEFA said there was "no specific intelligence" to suggest that Wednesday's Europa League final in Stockholm between Manchester United and Dutch side Ajax Amsterdam might be the target of any attack.

The International Cricket Council said security for the ICC Champions Trophy next month in Britain was its "highest priority".

GENERATION OF TERRORISM

France's Interior Ministry said on Tuesday it would send a list of measures to police to reinforce security, although officials said there was nothing especially new being proposed.

"There are plenty of measures already in place including by increasing private security contributions, but everyone has to simply remain vigilant," said Sebastien Pietrasanta, a French Socialist lawmaker and terrorism expert.

"I think we have to accept that we'll be fighting terrorism for a generation."

Speaking on RTL radio, Thierry Teodori, who runs a large concert hall in the southern French city of Lyon that was due to host a Grande concert in June, echoed those comments.

He said venues in France had already substantially beefed up ways of controlling crowds, searches and monitoring queues as well as increasing manpower.

"With every tragedy there is a new scenario. We have to train personnel to be as effective as possible and anticipate all eventualities, but that's inside the perimeter," he said.

"Outside the perimeter, it's up to security forces and the state to ensure security because we don't have the legitimacy to do that."

In Singapore, the organizer of Britney Spears' concerts in June said they were considering new measures.

"All our events are licensed by the police. It is normally advised by the licensing department on what precautions to take, how many armed guards we need. So we work closely with them," said Yogesh Mehta, project manager at IME Entertainment Group.

Singapore, which hosts a security summit between June 2-4 bringing together Asia-Pacific defense and military chiefs, made amendments to the Public Order Act last month.

It requires event organizers to notify the police a month beforehand if they expect more than 5,000 people to attend. And police may refuse to allow a public gathering if it has a direct political end or involves foreigners.

However, as well as a financial cost, enhancing security to such levels in Western countries may prove unpopular given they could curb on people's existing way of life, experts said.

"It's a problem of means, but also a political choice," said Brisard. "You have to continue living your life despite the attacks and not enter into the terrorists' game.

"They want you to change your system so that our society is entirely dependent on a security plan," he said.

tod evans
05-23-2017, 09:26 AM
Government has brought this to the people, expecting government to 'fix' it is insane....

helmuth_hubener
05-23-2017, 09:28 AM
Diversity + Proximity = ????????????

tod evans
05-23-2017, 09:32 AM
Diversity + Proximity = ????????????

???????????? = Trouble...

From the other thread;


One can hope that if children must be sacrificed on the alter of political correctness and inclusiveness that the children aren't from the productive class.....

helmuth_hubener
05-23-2017, 09:37 AM
Diversity + Proximity = War

Plain and simple.

That is all.

shakey1
05-23-2017, 10:16 AM
Attacks such as this are likely to continue long after we end our warring ways (should we actually decide to do so).

http://2helenahandbaskets.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/LC20-laurel-hardy.gif

Anti Federalist
05-23-2017, 10:21 AM
Attacks such as this are likely to continue long after we end our warring ways (should we actually decide to do so).

Roughly thirty years ago in Britain, it was the Irish blowing people up...until everybody finally wised up and pulled out of Belfast and the USSR stopped funding the IRA and Provo IRA (Because the USSR was on the cusp of no longing existing).

That left only drunken Bostonians to fund a guerrilla effort...and it just wasn't enough.

Anti Federalist
05-23-2017, 10:39 AM
Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates. - Ron Paul "On the Issues"

merkelstan
05-23-2017, 11:31 AM
Some refreshing honesty at last.

You can turn your country into a living hell of a police/security state and you will still not solve this problem.

So, the choices are:

A) Live with it. Bury your dead (or what's left of them) every so often when these incidents occur, hold pointless, useless and hopeless "vigils" and tack plush toys and flowers to some security fence.

B) Remove yourself from the wars being waged that are creating suicide bombers, and stop importing them by the hundreds of thousands into your country.


C) Remove kebab.

(combine with B for extra win)

shakey1
05-23-2017, 12:19 PM
B) Remove yourself from the wars being waged that are creating suicide bombers, and stop importing them by the hundreds of thousands into your country.



16+ years of war can make for a lot of bad blood, but this would certainly go a long way.

timosman
05-23-2017, 12:23 PM
16+ years of war can make for a lot of bad blood, but this would certainly go a long way.

People are already connecting the two? We need a new strategy!

shakey1
05-23-2017, 12:29 PM
People are already connecting the two? We need a new strategy!

Yah, option B

B) Remove yourself from the wars being waged that are creating suicide bombers, and stop importing them by the hundreds of thousands into your country.

This would be a new strategy for us... been waiting for it to happen.

timosman
05-23-2017, 12:32 PM
Yah, option B


This would be a new strategy for us... been waiting for it to happen.

We have our best team working on an even better set of strategies. Please hold your breath for the next 20 years. We will keep you informed.:cool:

tod evans
05-23-2017, 12:36 PM
Yah, option B


This would be a new strategy for us... been waiting for it to happen.

Sorry comrade orders have already been placed for next years bombs...

And remember Raytheon and General Dynamics people are considered by some as 'gainfully employed'....

NorthCarolinaLiberty
05-23-2017, 12:41 PM
"You can bring back the perimeter, add security gates and as many controls as you want, but that will not change the fact that a determined individual will carry out his act if he is not caught before."


The back of your head is exposed most of the day in daily life. You will not--can not--stop someone who is going to kill himself along with you.

That is also not to say you're defeatist and don't arm yourself and defend yourself when needed.

enhanced_deficit
05-23-2017, 03:23 PM
...

B) Remove yourself from the wars being waged that are creating suicide bombers, and stop importing them by the hundreds of thousands into your country.

....

EM.

That might not be a realistic option considering that oil resources of mideast and deals like $100 Billion waepons sale to Saudis create many well paying jobs in states with weapons/military industries dependent economies.

But modern societies engaged in perpetual wars may have no choice but to become security centric Police States like Israel to protect against evolving threats, very limited other options against such determined foes in an open society. All policies driven by security first principle.. extensive police/military checkpoints at every public place, extreme racial profiling, high walls, no immigration except for people that pass strict race/reigion litmus test using Israel model. Even then, there will still be constant state of fear.
But current contradictory/illogical conditions cannot sustain for ever.



New York airport 'blind' to El Al racial profiling
New York airport 'blind' to El Al racial profiling. ... Al and its New York staff in the United States over Israel's racial profiling of passengers in a ...
jonathan-cook.net/2010-04-20/new-york-airport-blind-to-el-a...


Donald Trump Calls for Israeli-Style Racial Profiling
Israel's racial profiling at its borders has been rife with abuses that stand in contrast with American values of equal treatment and safeguarding personal liberties.
https://theintercept.com/2016/06/20/donald-trump-calls-for-israeli...




https://s3.amazonaws.com/assets.forward.com/images/cropped/s-checkpoint-32312-1425726452.jpg

https://smpalestine.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/checkpoint-strip.jpg

phill4paul
05-23-2017, 03:49 PM
Even within the confines of a prison system they cannot stop crimes such as rape, drug use or murder. Tell me again how turning Amerika into an even greater police state is going to make us safer?

timosman
05-23-2017, 05:07 PM
Even within the confines of a prison system they cannot stop crimes such as rape, drug use or murder. Tell me again how turning Amerika into an even greater police state is going to make us safer?

It is a small price to pay to live in a free country. Do not mind our government fucking everybody on this planet. This does not create blowback at all. Everybody loves us, but there is small segment of the population over there who hates us for our freedoms. We will have the issue addressed by 2075. Now go to bed and have a nice sleep. There might a fidget spinner waiting for you when you wake up. :cool:

AuH20
05-23-2017, 05:14 PM
At some point, the citizens will take up the defense of their property and fellow citizens. That's when things should get interesting.

Keep importing these savages and they will purged in short order. I personally think they shouldn't be the savages we're focused on, but that's the predicament thrown on our doorstep. It's tough to keep an up-to-date priority list of savages in the world.

otherone
05-23-2017, 06:21 PM
Since those attacks, France has been in a state of emergency and seen thousands of soldiers patrolling its streets alongside police to protect tourist sites, government buildings and events.

No one will be safe until everyone is a cop, providing for his own defense.
But that would be anarchy.

AuH20
05-23-2017, 06:44 PM
Seems like we're right on schedule.

http://new.euro-med.dk/wp-content/uploads/pike-3.-world-war2.png

phill4paul
05-23-2017, 07:08 PM
Seems like we're right on schedule.

http://new.euro-med.dk/wp-content/uploads/pike-3.-world-war2.png

Why would they destroy each other when they can suck blood and treasure from America? Israel and the Islamic state are parasites. To destroy one means the end of support for the other. Americunts are suckers.

Origanalist
05-24-2017, 05:59 AM
No one will be safe until everyone is a cop, providing for his own defense.
But that would be anarchy.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to otherone again.