I want to start a Libertarian movement in my country

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

I live in Lebanon, and I don't know many libertarians where I live
I know only two guys on the internet and they created a Facebook page called "The Lebanese Libertarian Movement" and the page is still small https://www.facebook.com/LebaneseLibertarians/
We would like to expand and start doing something in practice.
Any suggestions and ideas are appreciated. :)

[juleswin]

Make youtube videos/make appearance in other people's youtube video, start a blog, try and write articles for regional papers etc. You have to put yourself/your ideas out there somehow and if possible, pray that a Ron Paul type politician would come around to carry the idea to the masses.

[Lamp]

I live in Lebanon, and I don't know many libertarians where I live
I know only two guys on the internet and they created a Facebook page called "The Lebanese Libertarian Movement" and the page is still small https://www.facebook.com/LebaneseLibertarians/
We would like to expand and start doing something in practice.
Any suggestions and ideas are appreciated. :)

Well judging by the state of Right Wing politics in Lebanon your going to have an easier time convincing people than say a country like India, Pakistan, China or Russia all of which have massive amounts of government intervention and promotion of military worship.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Lebanon

[Lamp]

Just promote good books and pdfs that you think will be helpful in order to promote your cause.

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

Make youtube videos/make appearance in other people's youtube video, start a blog, try and write articles for regional papers etc. You have to put yourself/your ideas out there somehow and if possible, pray that a Ron Paul type politician would come around to carry the idea to the masses.
I will write in both Arabic & English, and if someone of these guys knows French that would be great.
The problem with our Lebanese Economy is that we used to have economic prosperity before the 1975 civil war, Lebanon was called the Switzerland of the Middle East/Arab world.
We have a high unemployment and inflation rate, daily power outages at least 3 hours per day, overpriced poor quality internet, polluted environment from the waste management crisis.
We discovered oil on our sea, but our corrupt politicians want to create their own company with subsidies, or make it government run, or have a foreign private company use the oil and the politicians take 20% of their profit.
But our politicians take the profit to fill their pockets instead of investing for economic growth.
The Lebanese people don't have enough money to start a company of their own independent of the politicians

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

Well judging by the state of Right Wing politics in Lebanon your going to have an easier time convincing people than say a country like India, Pakistan, China or Russia all of which massive amounts of government intervention and promotion of military worship.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Lebanon
The problem with Lebanon is that political parties do not rely on Left-Right politics they rely on sectarian politics instead.
In Lebanon we do not have capitalism, sectarian families control the politics.
For example the Joumblat family have strong influence among the Druze sect, and soon enough Walid Joumblat the current leader of the Druze will inherent the leadership to his eldest son.
And in Lebanon your religious sect is stated on your Identification card, if u wanna get a job in Lebanon you need wasta (a form of nepotism in the Middle East) were an individual has connections to a politician.(This also applies to the private sector), Sectarian politicians have a monopoly over the private sector too.
When the politicians want to take a decision or implement a policy or pass a law or something it is debated on the basis of how much money they will gain and allocation of sectarian quotas.

[William Tell]

Inb4 Keith says "Just move to New Hampshire" :)

[timosman]

The problem with Lebanon is that political parties do not rely on Left-Right politics they rely on sectarian politics instead.
In Lebanon we do not have capitalism, sectarian families control the politics.
For example the Joumblat family have strong influence among the Druze sect, and soon enough Walid Joumblat the current leader of the Druze will inherent the leadership to his eldest son.
And in Lebanon your religious sect is stated on your Identification card, if u wanna get a job in Lebanon you need wasta (a form of nepotism in the Middle East) were an individual has connections to a politician.(This also applies to the private sector), Sectarian politicians have a monopoly over the private sector too.
When the politicians want to take a decision or implement a policy or pass a law or something it is debated on the basis of how much money they will gain and allocation of sectarian quotas.

Looks like you guys need more diversity.

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

Inb4 Keith says "Just move to New Hampshire" :)
I can't afford immigration.


Looks like you guys need more diversity.
We have diversity, but we need to get rid of the corrupt politicians.

[Mikezelot]

Not sure how If any elections work over there but have you tried running for local office?

[Origanalist]

I wish you luck. It's hard enough selling liberty here in the 'land of the free'.

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

Not sure how If any elections work over there but have you tried running for local office?
Parlimentarians have illegally extended their mandate twice in 2013 and 2014 and now they are considering extendending for a 3rd time.
In Lebanon, we can only elect the parliament, and the parliamentarians elect a president, a prime minister, and the head of the parliament.
The head of the parliament has been extending his term since 1991.
The president has to be a Maronite Christian.
Prime minister, has to be a sunni Muslim.
Head of the parliament has to be a Shia Muslim.

[jmdrake]

Inb4 Keith says "Just move to New Hampshire" :)

LOL. Ironically the South African Libertarian party has made strides that the U.S. Libertarian party could only dream of having taken the mayorship of the largest cities. India has done pretty well too.


Parlimentarians have illegally extended their mandate twice in 2013 and 2014 and now they are considering extendending for a 3rd time.
In Lebanon, we can only elect the parliament, and the parliamentarians elect a president, a prime minister, and the head of the parliament.
The head of the parliament has been extending his term since 1991.
The president has to be a Maronite Christian.
Prime minister, has to be a sunni Muslim.
Head of the parliament has to be a Shia Muslim.

I've always been fascinated with Lebanese politics for ^this very reason. It seems like the sectarian system has been designed to avoid conflicts like the Lebanese civil war, which really grew out of the Palestinian refugee crisis from what I understand. In places like Iraq, Libya, Egypt and Syria, sectarian violence was kept in check by strongmen. From what you've described it sounds like sectarian patronage keeps sectarian violence in check. And that's probably the reason why the system is so hard to change. It kind of sounds like the Mimbari caste system from the sci fi show Babylon 5. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minbari) If I am correct, what's holding your country back is fear. (Same as mine). So....what to do about it? From the Christian perspective perfect love casts out fear. (1 John 4:8) I don't know much about the Muslim perspective, but everything needed for self government at the individual level is in places like Matthew 5. Love your neighbor as yourself. Do unto others as you would have to do unto you. Jesus even said "I judge no one." (John 8:15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.) Imagine if all Christians actually lived like that? I know that Islam has a voluntary welfare system just like Christianity. Finding, and encouraging people to come up with solutions outside of government which fill roles that government has taken over, be it education, fighting poverty and hunger, housing or healthcare, is the way to a more libertarian society IMO. Libertarians spend far too much time trying to roll back government and not enough time trying to replace government.

[juleswin]

I will write in both Arabic & English, and if someone of these guys knows French that would be great.
The problem with our Lebanese Economy is that we used to have economic prosperity before the 1975 civil war, Lebanon was called the Switzerland of the Middle East/Arab world.
We have a high unemployment and inflation rate, daily power outages at least 3 hours per day, overpriced poor quality internet, polluted environment from the waste management crisis.
We discovered oil on our sea, but our corrupt politicians want to create their own company with subsidies, or make it government run, or have a foreign private company use the oil and the politicians take 20% of their profit.
But our politicians take the profit to fill their pockets instead of investing for economic growth.
The Lebanese people don't have enough money to start a company of their own independent of the politicians

I am not very well read on Lebanese politics but know enough to see that you have been ignoring some issues that make me wonder. I am here wondering why you have said nothing about the very aggressive nuclear armed neighbour you have in your country that would like to take over the region. The country has caused a lot of instability in your country, tried to invade it, caused a refugee crisis when they occupied Palestine etc and yet you fail to mention them in your post.

Also wars do a lot of damage to the infrastructure you know and your issue with electricity and internet connection could be related to the wars you have had. One last thing I want to leave you with is this, virtually all politicians systems have corruption in it. That is how it is and that is always how it is going to be so you gonna have to live with some of it. The issue with the oil "we discovered in our sea" is that this seems to be on a property owned by the country. In this kid of a situation, there are only a few reasonable options to deal with this, the state can try and mine the oil, sell or lease it to private companies. Either way, the politicians would get their hands on the money.

Anyway, what do you want the state to do with this resource that they discovered?

[juleswin]

LOL. Ironically the South African Libertarian party has made strides that the U.S. Libertarian party could only dream of having taken the mayorship of the largest cities. India has done pretty well too.



I've always been fascinated with Lebanese politics for ^this very reason. It seems like the sectarian system has been designed to avoid conflicts like the Lebanese civil war, which really grew out of the Palestinian refugee crisis from what I understand. In places like Iraq, Libya, Egypt and Syria, sectarian violence was kept in check by strongmen. From what you've described it sounds like sectarian patronage keeps sectarian violence in check. And that's probably the reason why the system is so hard to change. It kind of sounds like the Mimbari caste system from the sci fi show Babylon 5. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minbari) If I am correct, what's holding your country back is fear. (Same as mine). So....what to do about it? From the Christian perspective perfect love casts out fear. (1 John 4:8) I don't know much about the Muslim perspective, but everything needed for self government at the individual level is in places like Matthew 5. Love your neighbor as yourself. Do unto others as you would have to do unto you. Jesus even said "I judge no one." (John 8:15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.) Imagine if all Christians actually lived like that? I know that Islam has a voluntary welfare system just like Christianity. Finding, and encouraging people to come up with solutions outside of government which fill roles that government has taken over, be it education, fighting poverty and hunger, housing or healthcare, is the way to a more libertarian society IMO. Libertarians spend far too much time trying to roll back government and not enough time trying to replace government.


The Taef Agreement
The National Pact succeeded in ending the mandate, but failed to transform Lebanon into a cohesive functioning state. The political position of the various groups continued to be divided mainly along religious lines. It was only a matter of time before the political divide between Christians and Muslims exploded into a full armed conflict. This explosion occurred in 1975 and lasted until 1989, when the surviving deputies elected in 1972 met in Taef, Saudi Arabia, and agreed on a modest restructuring of the confessional regime to placate the warring factions and end the fighting.[30] A smaller but similar conflict had occurred earlier in 1958 during which the United States Marines landed in Beirut in response to the crisis and helped restore order and return the country to normalcy.[31]

The Taef Agreement required, and the House of Deputies adopted, the following amendments to the Constitution:

A provision stipulating that “[t]here shall be no legitimacy to any authority that contradicts the pact of co-existence” (however, there was no explanation as to what pact was being referred to or what legal consequences would result from contradicting this pact) (Preamble);
The vesting of the executive power of the State in the Council of Ministers rather than in the President (art. 17);
The necessity of a two-thirds vote by the Cabinet on all major decisions (art. 65);
The creation of a Constitutional Court (art. 19);
The distribution of the seats of the House of Deputies or Parliament equally between Christians and Muslims and proportionally among each of them until such time as the House of Deputies has enacted an electoral law not on the basis of religious representation (art. 24); and
The creation of a Senate where all religious communities are to be represented when the members of House of Deputies are no longer elected on a confessional basis (art. 22).
The Taef Agreement stripped the President of his constitutional powers and arguably left him with only one effective tool of governance—the authority to appoint the members of the Cabinet as agreed with the Prime Minister. Paradoxically, under the Taef Agreement the President is the Supreme Commander in Chief of the Army but the Army is under the authority of the Cabinet in which the President does not have the right to vote.

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/lebanon-constitutional-law.php

You look at the connections, you have Saudi Arabia who we all know is the biggest sponsor of terrorism helping you craft a political system, you know your country is fucked. But after 2 decades on civil war which I bet Saudi Arabia a big ally of US and Israel funded the rebelling side of it, the Lebanese people most likely agreed to a bad deal in order to end the war.

This I think is the genesis of the problem, letting Saudi Arabia more than any other nation fuel a destructive war in your country and then allowing them to help you crafting a peace process in a conference they sponsored.

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

I am not very well read on Lebanese politics but know enough to see that you have been ignoring some issues that make me wonder. I am here wondering why you have said nothing about the very aggressive nuclear armed neighbour you have in your country that would like to take over the region. The country has caused a lot of instability in your country, tried to invade it, caused a refugee crisis when they occupied Palestine etc and yet you fail to mention them in your post.

Also wars do a lot of damage to the infrastructure you know and your issue with electricity and internet connection could be related to the wars you have had. One last thing I want to leave you with is this, virtually all politicians systems have corruption in it. That is how it is and that is always how it is going to be so you gonna have to live with some of it. The issue with the oil "we discovered in our sea" is that this seems to be on a property owned by the country. In this kid of a situation, there are only a few reasonable options to deal with this, the state can try and mine the oil, sell or lease it to private companies. Either way, the politicians would get their hands on the money.

Anyway, what do you want the state to do with this resource that they discovered?

I prefer having a private company to use it and create it's derivatives and sell the products as gas oil, deisel, butane gas.
And use some of the profit for investments, create jobs, improve our infrastructure.
Speaking of Israel, their military is way stronger than ours, and we have seen during the 2006 war when Hezbollah attacked them, Israel responded with naval and air strikes leaving many dead innocent civilians.
The only thing that could stop Israel's power is Uncle Sam, not through violence but by cutting all aid and support.
I heard that the US government, donates 2 or 3 billion dollars a year to Israel using tax dollars, this is screwing the taxpayer.

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/lebanon-constitutional-law.php

You look at the connections, you have Saudi Arabia who we all know is the biggest sponsor of terrorism helping you craft a political system, you know your country is $#@!ed. But after 2 decades on civil war which I bet Saudi Arabia a big ally of US and Israel funded the rebelling side of it, the Lebanese people most likely agreed to a bad deal in order to end the war.

This I think is the genesis of the problem, letting Saudi Arabia more than any other nation fuel a destructive war in your country and then allowing them to help you crafting a peace process in a conference they sponsored.

Saudi Arabia is part of the problem, but you also forgot the other side contributing to our crises which is Iran funding, training, and arming Hezbollah an Islamic Shia Militant terrorist organization.
Lebanese politicians are two puppets one is backed by KSA and the other is Iran.​

[GunnyFreedom]

I can't afford immigration.


We have diversity, but we need to get rid of the corrupt politicians.

If you become a legitimate threat to the established order, you will be targeted.

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

LOL. Ironically the South African Libertarian party has made strides that the U.S. Libertarian party could only dream of having taken the mayorship of the largest cities. India has done pretty well too.



I've always been fascinated with Lebanese politics for ^this very reason. It seems like the sectarian system has been designed to avoid conflicts like the Lebanese civil war, which really grew out of the Palestinian refugee crisis from what I understand. In places like Iraq, Libya, Egypt and Syria, sectarian violence was kept in check by strongmen. From what you've described it sounds like sectarian patronage keeps sectarian violence in check. And that's probably the reason why the system is so hard to change. It kind of sounds like the Mimbari caste system from the sci fi show Babylon 5. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minbari) If I am correct, what's holding your country back is fear. (Same as mine). So....what to do about it? From the Christian perspective perfect love casts out fear. (1 John 4:8) I don't know much about the Muslim perspective, but everything needed for self government at the individual level is in places like Matthew 5. Love your neighbor as yourself. Do unto others as you would have to do unto you. Jesus even said "I judge no one." (John 8:15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.) Imagine if all Christians actually lived like that? I know that Islam has a voluntary welfare system just like Christianity. Finding, and encouraging people to come up with solutions outside of government which fill roles that government has taken over, be it education, fighting poverty and hunger, housing or healthcare, is the way to a more libertarian society IMO. Libertarians spend far too much time trying to roll back government and not enough time trying to replace government.


Lebanese people want change, but they are pessimistic about it because no palpable alternative has been offered.
Sectarianism is not protecting us, it is only making us less safe.
And yes a lot of people are in fear, many still think that secularism is abolishing religion, or that we become in Chaos, and some think that sectarianism is the best because other people are sectarian and bigoted.
Sunni Muslims think that the Syrian War is a war on Sunni's applies to other sects.
The Syrian Civil War, escalated the Sunni-Shia tensions in Lebanon and it is worse during the Iraq War, ever since Hezbollah's intervention is Syria the tensions have even gotten worse leading Al-Qaeda & ISIL to send suicide bombers to Lebanon especially in predominantly Hezbollah & Amal areas like the Southern Suburbs and South Lebanon. I had a near death experience, I was in a gentrified progressive area called Hamra which is close to my place, I was eating out with my friends and a suicide bomber from Al Qaeda sitting in a coffee shop facing the restaurant I was in, was caught by undercover police and Army intelligence.

The muslim perspective is fairly similar : What you want best for yourself, is what you want the best for others. And There is no compulsion in religion and belief.

And the religious clerics should be blamed too, because they are against secular civil marriage, in Lebanon we only have the option for religious marriage and are unfair to women. Me and other secularists believe that Civil Marriage is the first step towards secularism, and ending sectarianism.

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

If you become a legitimate threat to the established order, you will be targeted.
I don't think this will ever happen, because I am average and not special.

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

Anyway, what do you want the state to do with this resource that they discovered?
And it would be preferable to have a local private company to extract the oil.

We also have Marijuana plants, but the government criminalized it creating a war on drugs and the only ones benefiting from it are Hezbollah & Amal making them have a monopoly over it.
If we want to achieve economic growth the Lebanese government should not only legalize it's usage, it should also be legal to harvest it, free from regulations, and freely used not only for medical usage.

[Lamp]

https://archive.org/details/fav-w_dewils0n

This might be helpful for coming up with good arguments

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

https://archive.org/details/fav-w_dewils0n

This might be helpful for coming up with good arguments

Thx

[dannno]

Parlimentarians have illegally extended their mandate twice in 2013 and 2014 and now they are considering extendending for a 3rd time.
In Lebanon, we can only elect the parliament, and the parliamentarians elect a president, a prime minister, and the head of the parliament.
The head of the parliament has been extending his term since 1991.
The president has to be a Maronite Christian.
Prime minister, has to be a sunni Muslim.
Head of the parliament has to be a Shia Muslim.

What is your opinion regarding the compatibility of Islam and libertarianism?

[dannno]

We also have Marijuana plants, but the government criminalized it creating a war on drugs and the only ones benefiting from it are Hezbollah & Amal making them have a monopoly over it.
If we want to achieve economic growth the Lebanese government should not only legalize it's usage, it should also be legal to harvest it, free from regulations, and freely used not only for medical usage.

What are the best strains of cannabis grown in Lebanon?

I am trimming up some strawberry fire right now.

[timosman]

How many people in your country are government informants?:cool:

[helmuth_hubener]

I don't think this will ever happen, because I am average and not special.

Step One: Start thinking like a Winner:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUJDtgv03X0

Corollary: Stop thinking like a Loser.

All the best!

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

What is your opinion regarding the compatibility of Islam and libertarianism?
-The short answer is Yes, you can be a Muslim and a Libertarian, just like you have Christian Libertarians.
-The Long answer is No, the religion of Islam is against secularism and Individualism.
-Individualism & Liberty Violations:
Treatment of ***** and transgendered folks:
Qur'an 4:16

If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful. -Supression of Freedom of Expression: Qur'an Sura 33:57-61:
Surely (as for) those who speak evil things of Allah and His Messenger, Allah has cursed them in this world and the here after, and He has prepared for them a chastisement bringing disgrace. And those who speak evil things of the believing men and the believing women without their having earned (it), they are guilty indeed of a false accusation and a manifest sin. O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. If the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease and the agitators in the city do not desist, We shall most certainly set you over them, then they shall not be your neighbors in it but for a little while; Cursed: wherever they are found they shall be seized and murdered, a (horrible) murdering.
Freedom of Expression
Sura 5:33:

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.
-Sex:
Sura 17:32:

Nor come nigh to fornication/adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils). The penalty for premarital sex is 100 lashes, and for extramarital stoning till death. Masturbation is sinful and harmful to a person's sexuality according to Islam. -Discrimination Against Jews & Christians:
Qur'an 9:29: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
-Penalty for the Apostasy & Freedom of Thought:
Qur'an 3:90-91:

Surely, those who disbelieve after their believing, then increase in unbelief, their repentance shall not be accepted, and these are they that go astray. Surely, those who disbelieve and die while they are unbelievers, the earth full of gold shall not be accepted from one of them, though he should offer to ransom himself with it, these it is who shall have a painful chastisement, and they shall have no helpers.

Theocracy & Anti-Secualrism:
The Qur'an is the first and most important source of Islamic law. Believed to be the direct word of God as revealed to Muhammad through angel Gabriel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jibril) in Mecca (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecca) and Medina (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medina), the scripture specifies the moral, philosophical, social, political and economic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_economics) basis on which a society should be constructed. The verses revealed in Mecca deal with philosophical (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_philosophy) and theological (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_theology) issues, whereas those revealed in Medina are concerned with socio-economic laws. The Qur'an was written and preserved during the life of Muhammad, and compiled soon after his death.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sources_of_sharia#cite_note-NomaniQ-6)
The verses of the Qur'an are categorized into three fields: "science of speculative theology", "ethical principles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_ethics)" and "rules of human conduct". The third category is directly concerned with Islamic legal matters which contains about five hundred verses or one thirteenth of it. The task of interpreting the Qur'an has led to various opinions and judgments. The interpretations of the verses by Muhammad's companions for Sunnis and Imams (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_Imams) for Shias are considered the most authentic, since they knew why, where and on what occasion each verse was revealed


What are the best strains of cannabis grown in Lebanon?

I am trimming up some strawberry fire right now.
I don't know much about cannabis, I will ask my friend he knows about them.


How many people in your country are government informants?:cool:
I don't know


Step One: Start thinking like a Winner:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUJDtgv03X0

Corollary: Stop thinking like a Loser.

All the best!
Thx, but why the insult

[helmuth_hubener]

Thx, but why the insult

No insult. If you want to not lose, you have to not think like a loser. Did I say you are a loser? No. Are you, in fact, going to be a loser? That is for you to decide.

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

No insult. If you want to not lose, you have to not think like a loser. Did I say you are a loser? No. Are you, in fact, going to be a loser? That is for you to decide.

Thx, for the advice

[Jamesiv1]

If you're Lebanese and don't like what's going on in Lebanon then you can get the hell out.

[helmuth_hubener]

Thx, for the advice

No problem!

I also would suggest dumbing down any message you want to present. A lot. Really, really a lot. The average IQ of your country is about 80. Average. None of these people can even understand the pronunciation of the word "libertarian," much less why they may want to pronounce it. I don't even know why they would. They probably wouldn't!

So actually, I would suggest one of two possible paths (not that you can't do both... if you have unlimited time and resources): either radically dumb the message down, or radically intellectually juice the message up. This second option is that you just ignore all the people in your country who are completely incapable of understanding libertarianism (as well as being incapable of pronouncing the word, which is going to be just downright annoying for you) and focus on the upper-class elites, who are capable.

Option One: Make Lebanese libertarianism synonymous with something really popular to the plebes in Lebanon. In your case, possibilities would be: Islam, and.... OK, just Islam. That's pretty much the only horse you've got. So hitch 'er up!

Option Two: Make Lebanese libertarianism extremely exclusive and high-level stuff that the elite and only the elite will be attracted to, or even have the equipment to understand. By refusing to compromise, water down, or even simplify, you will gain a cachet of exclusivity. By utterly refusing to attempt in the slightest to seem attractive to, or even palatable to, or even non-horrifying to, or even comprehensible to the idiotic masses, you will draw at least some curiosity from one group: powerful, intelligent, contrarian/independent young men in wealthy families with high IQs. If your ideas are as sensational as you think, this group will then adopt them. And, turns out.... that's the only group you need! True story.

There's your two game plan options. Choose wisely.

[dannno]

-The short answer is Yes, you can be a Muslim and a Libertarian, just like you have Christian Libertarians.
-The Long answer is No, the religion of Islam is against secularism and Individualism.


Right, so one could claim to be Muslim and a libertarian, but one cannot follow the tenants of Islam and be a libertarian.

That sounds like a pretty big problem, to me. What on earth can possibly be done to rectify it?

I mean, Christianity certainly isn't perfect and there has been a lot of violence perpetrated in the name of Christianity - but I'm not under the impression that Christianity is fundamentally at odds with having a free society. In fact, some people believe Jesus was an anarchist tax protester and that some of his words and teachings were later altered slightly to make him appear more statist than he actually was in order for the religion to be compatible with the power structures in place at the time, but that hints of his true teachings remain.

[Natural Citizen]

I live in Lebanon, and I don't know many libertarians where I live
I know only two guys on the internet and they created a Facebook page called "The Lebanese Libertarian Movement" and the page is still small https://www.facebook.com/LebaneseLibertarians/
We would like to expand and start doing something in practice.
Any suggestions and ideas are appreciated. :)

I'll tell you something. I like pretty much everyone here. A few times I've got on the bad side of some people. And sometimes some people get on my bad side. And, of course, a woman scorned, never forgets, no matter what. That's something else, though. End of the day, though, if any of em needed something, I'd be right there offering if they asked.

Now. Heh. That said, you have to be careful when asking 'libertarians' about libertarianism. A lot of people have some libertarian tendencies but not all of them are truly libertarian. Most are libertines. The younger ones anyway. Then you have the monarchists and whatnot. And mercantilists. And about a dozen other isms going on, all with their own tailored perception of libertarian.

[oyarde]

The problem with Lebanon is that political parties do not rely on Left-Right politics they rely on sectarian politics instead.
In Lebanon we do not have capitalism, sectarian families control the politics.
For example the Joumblat family have strong influence among the Druze sect, and soon enough Walid Joumblat the current leader of the Druze will inherent the leadership to his eldest son.
And in Lebanon your religious sect is stated on your Identification card, if u wanna get a job in Lebanon you need wasta (a form of nepotism in the Middle East) were an individual has connections to a politician.(This also applies to the private sector), Sectarian politicians have a monopoly over the private sector too.
When the politicians want to take a decision or implement a policy or pass a law or something it is debated on the basis of how much money they will gain and allocation of sectarian quotas.

Do the Druze still hold the belief that you must be born to Druze parents ?

[helmuth_hubener]

I'll tell you something. I like pretty much everyone here. A few times I've got on the bad side of some people. And sometimes some people get on my bad side. And, of course, a woman scorned, never forgets, no matter what. That's something else, though. End of the day, though, if any of em needed something, I'd be right there offering if they asked.

Now. Heh. That said, you have to be careful when asking 'libertarians' about libertarianism. A lot of people have some libertarian tendencies but not all of them are truly libertarian. Most are libertines. The younger ones anyway. Then you have the monarchists and whatnot. And mercantilists. And about a dozen other isms going on, all with their own tailored perception of libertarian. Right. And yet, there was -- and hopefully still is! -- a thread tying us all together. In our particular case, it was the great project of Murray Rothbard, as implemented by the hard work and tireless integrity of Lew Rockwell and Ron Paul, that binds us. Murray's great integrating vision was able to see the wholesome or worthwhile elements in a panoply of American traditions, movements, and intellectual Giants, and then his genius was able to stitch them into a system that could have great appeal to them all, to all these seemingly unrelated groups. Furthermore -- and this is where his genius goes beyond sheer inventive cleverness and reaches that rare height of the universal -- Murray's final creation in no way feels like a patchwork quilt, but like Michealangelo's Sistene Chapel, a unified and coherent whole, much greater that the sum of its parts.

But without the parts, already existing, already active and alive, it wouldn't have worked. Movements, especially political movements, cannot simply be created whole cloth out of nothing. They grow and morph out of existing movements. So, you need to figure out: what is your John Birch Society? Who was your Lebanese Mencken, your Jefferson, your Spooner? Where is your Young Americans for Freedom to proselyte in, your National Review to write in (and feud with), your Ayn Rand to love (and laugh at)? These are the kinds of questions you must answer if you are to discover whether it is possible to construct a Libertarian Movement in Lebanon.

And again, I wish you the best in doing so.

[osan]

Make youtube videos/make appearance in other people's youtube video, start a blog,

The world has become an "interesting" place. I started a blog some years ago. Possibly I am flattering myself as I am a horrible judge of my own merits (which is why I usually default to "everything I do sucks", so as not to lead myself astray in the direction of auto-stroking), but I think I have done a fair to middling job of it. Ten-thousand views since late 2009 is an abysmal result, telling me that either indeed I suck or the average man has no interest in, or capacity for my efforts. Assuming for conversation's sake that I do not wholly suck, it would then follow that people are not in much of a mood for the rigors of freedom.


You have to put yourself/your ideas out there somehow and if possible,

Done that. Not much response, which leads me back to the notion that "I suck". The other possibility is that I just suck at self-promotion. I've never been one to whip it out and start waving it around like the world's largest flag poll, screaming "hey everybody, look at me!"


pray that a Ron Paul type politician would come around to carry the idea to the masses.

Hell no. The ONE thing I don't like about Ron Paul is the cult that has arisen around him. It is essentially no different than the one that rose at the feet of men like Hitler and Jim Jones. What we need is not a Ron Paul, but fifty million like-minded and driven individuals of equivalent knowledge, capacities, drive, and habit. So long as we of the "liberty movement" retain this fetish for personalities, hoping for a new Moses to appear out of the mists to deliver us from our bondage, we shall remain in fact the Bowel Movement, for we are nothing more than that. The fact is that say that we want freedom, but clearly not enough to seize it. We only want it enough to "pray" someone comes along and gives it to us. Does this not remind us so very powerfully of those whom we claim to despise? Sadder and more ironically still is the fact that those at whom we look down our noses have been out there acting to get their hands on that which they say they want. Yes, they are almost equally guilty of wanting it given them, but that small difference between us - such as demonstrated by the rioters who tried to burn down Portland - is all the difference in the world because even though the goals were rotten and perhaps disingenuous, they DID get off the couch and into the action. Generally speaking, "we" do nothing beyond griping from behind a screen.

I've personally attempted to get some ideas going here on RPF. The result? Nada, every time. I've seen others do the same with identical outcomes. I don't suppose this is a very popular position, but we have only ourselves to blame. Back ca. 2010 there was some push here to do X and at the request of some of the members I recruited the head of the NJ Libertarian party to the cause only to have the ball dropped utterly, the result being me wearing egg from head to toe. While I tend to be rather forbearing, I do not care for being made the fool, which was precisely what happened. Sadly, this is typical of the Bowel Movement, which is why it will likely never become a Liberty Movement. THAT is why the progressives are eating Liberty's lunch and why we are likely to die as effective chattel. This is why I roll my eyes now whenever I hear a call to action. Once bitten, thrice shy.

I don't know even bupkis about the practicalities of politicking, so years ago I asked for help in finding out how I might go about running for office here in WV. Not a single word offered by anyone. I am owed nothing and therefore have no basis to complain, but it is not inappropriate to point out that not a soul here came forward with even a single word of encouragement. It was as if I were shouting down a black-hole. How is such a reality supposed to offer even the least reasonable hope of anything better than the continued mad rush from anything even remotely resembling freedom? Perhaps I am blind, but I just don't see it.

Until the mode is fundamentally altered, and I hold not my breath in wait, the Bowel Movement shall go nowhere. Sorry if my prognosis is a downer, but I see nothing better at this time.

[helmuth_hubener]

What we need is not a Ron Paul, but fifty million like-minded and driven individuals of equivalent knowledge, capacities, drive, and habit. Well, that would be nice. But, I have a little bit different view. Call me romantic, but as I study and look at history, most of the advancements made, most of the steps forward for the European Mind have come from single individual geniuses. The story of history, at least all the edifying parts, is not the story of the masses, it is the story of Geniuses.

You need not despair at the impossible task of energizing 50 million people. That goal is insurmountable, but it's also not required. All it ever takes is one. Just one Voltaire.


I've personally attempted to get some ideas going here on RPF. The result? Nada, every time. I've seen others do the same with identical outcomes.... This is why I roll my eyes now whenever I hear a call to action. Once bitten, thrice shy. The one to call to action is yourself. I, for example, have built a financial institution that will enable us to use gold as money. Michael Maresco rode a bicycle across the country. AF won northern NH for Ron Paul by buying newspaper ad space. Bill Greene went through the lengthy process of becoming a part of the Electoral College and cast his vote for Ron Paul. Lew Rockwell founded the Mises Institute and has been running it for the past 35 years. Curtis Yarvin (Mencius Moldbug) is building us a new, free internet; he's been working on it since 2002. Pericles wrote a book -- that takes a lot of effort.

The point is: these men are working hard, over long periods of time. It takes a sustained focus and effort to accomplish anything. It takes a long time. Libertarianism and Conservatism are K-Selected philosophies. We are K-Selected. So how are we going to win? By being K-Selected! The way to win is to play to your strengths. Push your advantage. Be true to your nature. And that means, in case you're not familiar with r/K theory: thinking long term. Working long term. Not being impatient. Fighting the war, not the battles.

I always try to be helpful, or at least supportive, when anyone has a Project, when anyone's actually trying to do something. So, whatever your ideas are/were, give the thread a bump and if I see it I'll try to help.


I don't know even bupkis about the practicalities of politicking, so years ago I asked for help in finding out how I might go about running for office here in WV. Not a single word offered by anyone. I am owed nothing and therefore have no basis to complain, but it is not inappropriate to point out that not a soul here came forward with even a single word of encouragement. It was as if I were shouting down a black-hole. Aha, you've made it easy, here's one of your ideas right here!

It's easy, osan! I mean, running is really easy. Just go down to the courthouse or county building and apply! You fill out a form. That's it! And it's probably one of the easiest government forms you've ever filled out. OK, set! You're running!

Now winning, that takes other measures. Essentially, it's like anything else in life: just be smart and put in some work. You're intelligent, so you already have that big advantage. So just think about the problem, come up with a plan of attack, and execute. Picking a good office to run for is part of this process of using your intelligence, too.

You might enjoy this book:


https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51l-JnL8hOL._SX322_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg (https://www.amazon.com/Take-Back-Government-Robert-Heinlein/dp/1612420613)

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

No problem!

I also would suggest dumbing down any message you want to present. A lot. Really, really a lot. The average IQ of your country is about 80. Average. None of these people can even understand the pronunciation of the word "libertarian," much less why they may want to pronounce it. I don't even know why they would. They probably wouldn't!

So actually, I would suggest one of two possible paths (not that you can't do both... if you have unlimited time and resources): either radically dumb the message down, or radically intellectually juice the message up. This second option is that you just ignore all the people in your country who are completely incapable of understanding libertarianism (as well as being incapable of pronouncing the word, which is going to be just downright annoying for you) and focus on the upper-class elites, who are capable.

Option One: Make Lebanese libertarianism synonymous with something really popular to the plebes in Lebanon. In your case, possibilities would be: Islam, and.... OK, just Islam. That's pretty much the only horse you've got. So hitch 'er up!

Option Two: Make Lebanese libertarianism extremely exclusive and high-level stuff that the elite and only the elite will be attracted to, or even have the equipment to understand. By refusing to compromise, water down, or even simplify, you will gain a cachet of exclusivity. By utterly refusing to attempt in the slightest to seem attractive to, or even palatable to, or even non-horrifying to, or even comprehensible to the idiotic masses, you will draw at least some curiosity from one group: powerful, intelligent, contrarian/independent young men in wealthy families with high IQs. If your ideas are as sensational as you think, this group will then adopt them. And, turns out.... that's the only group you need! True story.

There's your two game plan options. Choose wisely.

I would go for option two, because I know a party in Lebanon called "Seven", they don't have a certain ideology, their beliefs are working on improving the basic living standards and conditions for the Lebanese, the board of directors are upper middle class, and the secretary general is a founder and CEO of an advertising company, we did discuss a bit on implementing free market capitalism. When I see them next I will debate and discuss free market capitalism.

"Seven" are cultural progressives which means that they support scientific advancements and innovations, the believe in gender equality, LGBT rights, secularism, only one or two support Hezbollah. They are open to new ideas so I will have a full discussion soon enough on Libertarianism.


Do the Druze still hold the belief that you must be born to Druze parents ?

Not exactly, according to the Durzi doctrine, if your father is a Durzi but your mother isn't then you have to follow your mother's religious beliefs, similar to Judaism.


If you're Lebanese and don't like what's going on in Lebanon then you can get the hell out.

Immigration is not easy to afford.


Right, so one could claim to be Muslim and a libertarian, but one cannot follow the tenants of Islam and be a libertarian.

That sounds like a pretty big problem, to me. What on earth can possibly be done to rectify it?

I mean, Christianity certainly isn't perfect and there has been a lot of violence perpetrated in the name of Christianity - but I'm not under the impression that Christianity is fundamentally at odds with having a free society. In fact, some people believe Jesus was an anarchist tax protester and that some of his words and teachings were later altered slightly to make him appear more statist than he actually was in order for the religion to be compatible with the power structures in place at the time, but that hints of his true teachings remain.

Many Muslims believe that Muhammad & Omar were socialists/communists and they were the richest but redistributed their wealth to the poor and underprivileged, and in Islam you have to pay at least 2.5% of your income to charity or as a tax if living in an Islamic country.
During the Islamic golden age, free market capitalism was relied on, and it made them prosper, but the thinkers, scientists, and managers were closet ex-Muslims.
I can argue with Muslims about the economy during the golden age.


I'll tell you something. I like pretty much everyone here. A few times I've got on the bad side of some people. And sometimes some people get on my bad side. And, of course, a woman scorned, never forgets, no matter what. That's something else, though. End of the day, though, if any of em needed something, I'd be right there offering if they asked.

Now. Heh. That said, you have to be careful when asking 'libertarians' about libertarianism. A lot of people have some libertarian tendencies but not all of them are truly libertarian. Most are libertines. The younger ones anyway. Then you have the monarchists and whatnot. And mercantilists. And about a dozen other isms going on, all with their own tailored perception of libertarian.

I am not an anarchist I am a minarchist , but I should also explain to people the different schools of Libertarianism.

[The Gold Standard]

In my opinion, you need to focus on education before you even worry about political success. The basis of libertarianism is private property, and that would solve much of what ails your country right now. Getting people to understand property rights and how private property is what has driven wealth creation through the history of the world will eventually open people to politicians pushing that message.

In this country, a country that was founded on mostly "libertarian" values, there is almost no political stomach for that message, so in your country, people will need to understand what it means before you ask them to vote for it.

[Jamesiv1]

Why would any country want to copy America??

[osan]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by osanhttp://www.ronpaulforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=6458193#post6458193)What we need is not a Ron Paul, but fifty million like-minded and driven individuals of equivalent knowledge, capacities, drive, and habit.



Well, that would be nice. But, I have a little bit different view. Call me romantic, but as I study and look at history, most of the advancements made, most of the steps forward for the European Mind have come from single individual geniuses. The story of history, at least all the edifying parts, is not the story of the masses, it is the story of Geniuses.

You may be ignoring a subtle, yet important point. Firstly, the genius of long past - say from the renaissance time - was HEAVILY managed or "guided" by the tyrant church, as well as the kingly equivalents. Michelangelo is one example of very many. His work on the Sistine Chapel, for one, was heavily interfered with by that douche cardinal whose name escapes me at the moment. Michelangelo was very lucky to have escaped what could easily have been mortal consequences had his depiction of said cardinal descending the steps into eternal damnation been taken in issue.

Another was Gallileo. His astrological models were declared heretical and he damned nearly earned the stake. His genius strayed from the path of ecclesiastic approval and placed a set of crosshairs on his back for the remainder of his life.

Then there was da Vinci who also treaded on thin ice at times. The genius of Mozart damned nearly got him in trouble at the time, not to mention is virtual captive status by the king who decided he owned the composer.

Fast-forward to the age of "enlightenment". THAT is where we see the real advances that came in rapid fire, one upon the other. Why? I will tell you: it was because for the first time in the history of human Empire, genius was respected through the augmented recognition of INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS. No longer were men so blatantly regarded as the property of those in power. Such men as Planck, Rieman, Bohr, Hertz, Poisson, Einstein, Tesla, and so on, were actually FREE to engage in the exercise of their genius and make of it what they might. Never before had that been possible. The wicked and corrupt church had been muzzled, and much of the worst of the kings reined in... at least enough to make possible the Industrial Revolution, which would have been wholly impossible in the fifteenth century even had Watt and Carnot been born then and equally educated. Why? Because the product of their genius would have been seen by the rotten Church of Fear and Evil as a threat to their world view, and thus their power. Such men would have been reeled in, any resistance met with the stake or other equally horrid and criminal instrumentality.

And now that we are on our way into a new political dark age, once again the yoke has been reintroduced upon the individual, every day another few grains of weight added to ensure that whatever greatness might reside within the head in question, it will remain tightly controlled by Themme and their agents so as not to bring forth anything that might attenuate their power in accord with the zero-sum world view they hold in such matters.

Were I to discover a truly endless and practical form of energy, scalable from that by which to power a wristwatch, to an entire city of 20 million souls, you had better bet your ass that I would be taken under strict and stern control in a split moment. Theye would not readily allow such liberating ability to fall into the hands of common folk.

Therefore, while what you say is true insofar as it goes, the more complete context must accompany your facts in order to give a more complete perspective.

Theye are raving, maniacally insane filth that have rendered this world into the condition we now find it. The common man has no direct hand in it, for he was instructed what to think, feel, and do. Shame on him for that, perhaps, but perhaps not. The agents of positive fact are Themme and they bear the vast proportion of the burden of guilt for the despair-inspiring condition in which the world now finds itself.


You need not despair at the impossible task of energizing 50 million people. That goal is insurmountable, but it's also not required. All it ever takes is one. Just one Voltaire.

I don't do despair. I do disgust and near-despair at times, but I have yet to set my feet upon such tainted soil.

All it takes is one is not nearly correct, as I take you meaning. If one manages to light a fire of change under the asses of the 50 millions such that they awaken and come to sense, then yes. But if you mean as I suspect that just one can single-handedly bring such deep and massive change about, you are very much mistaken. It is a virtual impossibility because it is statistically next to zero as a potential.



The one to call to action is yourself.

I've done that which I am willing on my own. If I am among people unwilling to help themselves, then I will lift no finger to come to their aid when the moment comes they burst into a state of open combustion. Were the nation of a mind to take up arms and straighten the land out, I would be on board. I will not, however, so much as break a finger nail for those who will do naught but stand idly by, shivering as I went forth to do battle against evil. Screw that noise. Shitty people deserve the destruction that other shitty people visit upon them. My only concern is for the small handful who deserve the liberty born to them. That they, too, stand to be consumed in the flames of destruction as America descends the staircase into the dustbin of history, is the only aspect of the destruction of humanity I find disagreeable. The rest deserve their cells in living hell, so far as I am concerned.


I, for example, have built a financial institution that will enable us to use gold as money.

I applaud the effort and wish you all success. But that is nowhere nearly sufficient to the broader task in question: that of human liberty. Furthermore, if you have not already done so, you will fall under the thumb of the Man, who will regulate your genius - possibly unto extinction.


Michael Maresco rode a bicycle across the country. AF won northern NH for Ron Paul by buying newspaper ad space. Bill Greene went through the lengthy process of becoming a part of the Electoral College and cast his vote for Ron Paul. Lew Rockwell founded the Mises Institute and has been running it for the past 35 years. Curtis Yarvin (Mencius Moldbug) is building us a new, free internet; he's been working on it since 2002. Pericles wrote a book -- that takes a lot of effort.

Lots of effort, aye. I have written several books worth and have published some of it for all to see - all to little to no effect that I can detect. I have asked for help, just a LITTLE help and got nowhere. Once again, I have no interest in working for the interests of people whose very lives are apparently not worth to themselves the match to light them ablaze. It's a sad statement, but that is how things are. I'd have done most of the heavy lifting, but there are some things I cannot do until I learn how to do them. All I asked was a little guidance and nothing was forthcoming, which gave good indication of the level of interest. I have since decided I have better things to do with my time. In the meanwhile, I still write the occasional essay and post here in the interest of learning, teaching, and improving everyone's understanding of the basics relevant to the ostensive reasons we are all here.


I always try to be helpful, or at least supportive, when anyone has a Project, when anyone's actually trying to do something. So, whatever your ideas are/were, give the thread a bump and if I see it I'll try to help.I am done with that. Now I work on my triggers in the hope of making a buck in exchange for an invention worthy of people's needs and wants.


You might enjoy this book:

I will have to check it out one of these days. Very busy at the moment with prototyping and getting my equipment ready for cutting the hay in June, which is going to be a bear.

Thanks for the words.

[Working Poor]

I wish you luck and liberty!

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

I wish you luck and liberty!
Thx

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

Can you explain to me why Marx's premise is a bad idea " From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"?

[Dillinger]

Starting a blog and a youtube channel would be a great start. You might even want to post those videos in any Lebanese Political forum.

[dannno]

Can you explain to me why Marx's premise is a bad idea " From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"?

What incentive is there to work hard?

[helmuth_hubener]

Can you explain to me why Marx's premise is a bad idea " From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"?

Is it a bad idea, Ibn.AL.Muqafaa? What do you think?

[Lamp]

http://sawte.com/

[Lamp]

Can you explain to me why Marx's premise is a bad idea " From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"?

Because nobody can decide your needs for you especially the government and assuming that leads to breadlines and malnourishment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivization_in_the_Soviet_Union

[PierzStyx]

Make youtube videos/make appearance in other people's youtube video, start a blog, try and write articles for regional papers etc. You have to put yourself/your ideas out there somehow and if possible, pray that a Ron Paul type politician would come around to carry the idea to the masses.

Become the Ron Paul of your country.

[H. E. Panqui]

Why would any country want to copy America??

...i do believe that's the most insightful thing i've seen from you!...good on you...we are all works in the making..

Ibn.AL.Muqafaa, thank-you for your insight...what do you know about the issuance/creation of 'the money' you use in lebanon?...who issues it? ...how is it issued/created? ...why is it issued?...etc..

[H. E. Panqui]

Can you explain to me why Marx's premise is a bad idea " From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"?

...as long as any arrangements are voluntary and not government-coerced this is a beautiful philosophy for individuals to consider...

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

Ibn.AL.Muqafaa, thank-you for your insight...what do you know about the issuance/creation of 'the money' you use in lebanon?...who issues it? ...how is it issued/created? ...why is it issued?...etc..
In Lebanon we can't create money from thin air, we have rely on the gold standard.
Our prices of basic products have increased thanks to the Fed & The Rothschilds for creating money out of air.

[H. E. Panqui]

prof. charles murray huebner opines: 'I also would suggest dumbing down any message you want to present. A lot. Really, really a lot. The average IQ of your country is about 80. Average. None of these people can even understand the pronunciation of the word "libertarian," much less why they may want to pronounce it. I don't even know why they would. They probably wouldn't!'

:o

...ummmm helmuth, you may find that ashkenazi jews in israel, turkey, etc., are purported to have the highest 'iq's ' :rolleyes:...aren't they mostly 'socialists,' fascists, racists, etc..?

...a little constructive observation: ..you'd do well to develop an honest understanding of 'money' before you pop-off too much...you're not fooling anyone knowledgeable with your ludwiggery... ;)

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

prof. charles murray huebner opines: 'I also would suggest dumbing down any message you want to present. A lot. Really, really a lot. The average IQ of your country is about 80. Average. None of these people can even understand the pronunciation of the word "libertarian," much less why they may want to pronounce it. I don't even know why they would. They probably wouldn't!'

:o

...ummmm helmuth, you may find that ashkenazi jews in israel, turkey, etc., are purported to have the highest 'iq's ' :rolleyes:...aren't they mostly 'socialists,' fascists, racists, etc..?

...a little constructive observation: ..you'd do well to develop an honest understanding of 'money' before you pop-off too much...you're not fooling anyone knowledgeable with your ludwiggery... ;)

The problem with Lebanese people they are smart but sheeple.

Most of the time they complain about the standard of living and about the politicians.
And during election time they vote for the same politicians depending on the religious sect the politician is, the politicians exploit the people that "if you vote for me, I will protect your sect".

But when Lebanese people , travel to the US, Canada , Western Europe, Japan , Oceania , and United Arab Emirates they overwhelmingly prosper.
-Like Michel Obeid he discovered a cure for cancer. http://www.care2.com/news/member/930284705/593766

-And the W-motors company founded and run by Lebanese people in Lebanon, they created a super-car known as the Lykan but the Lebanese government does not legally recognize it so they moved their company to the UAE. The politicians do not want us to acheive economic growth, and if W-Motors was recognized by the Lebanese government we would've at least solved our economic crisis. http://www.wmotors.ae/company/history

[timosman]

The problem with Lebanese people they are smart but sheeple.

LOL. What do you think about the rest of the planet?:cool:

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

LOL. What do you think about the rest of the planet?:cool:
I have no opinion

[timosman]

I have no opinion

You sound like Zippy.

[cindy25]

promote popular issues, such as abolishing conscription and lowering taxes.

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

promote popular issues, such as abolishing conscription and lowering taxes.

We don't have conscription it was abolished in 2007

[H. E. Panqui]

In Lebanon we can't create money from thin air, we have rely on the gold standard.
Our prices of basic products have increased thanks to the Fed & The Rothschilds for creating money out of air.

...can you describe the money-creation process more accurately?...precisely who is deciding whether or not to create more money and who tends to get to use the newly-created money in 'the first round of spending?'

...don't feel bad if you don't know this..i've found there are VERY VERY VERY VERY few people around the planet who under$tand the hideous monetary order under which we are truly enslaved...btw, i've found the 'ludwig gold-buggers' to be as misinformed/butt-ignorant as everyone else with respect to even the basic$...and a rotten, stooooooopid, insane monetary order just about guarantees a rotten, stooooooooopid, insane 'society'...

...btw, helmuth...heinlein's 'take back your government' :rolleyes: is absolute horse-sh!t...'we' never NEVER had 'it' to begin with...

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

...can you describe the money-creation process more accurately?...precisely who is deciding whether or not to create more money and who tends to get to use the newly-created money in 'the first round of spending?'

...don't feel bad if you don't know this..i've found there are VERY VERY VERY VERY few people around the planet who under$tand the hideous monetary order under which we are truly enslaved...btw, i've found the 'ludwig gold-buggers' to be as misinformed/butt-ignorant as everyone else with respect to even the basic$...and a rotten, stooooooopid, insane monetary order just about guarantees a rotten, stooooooooopid, insane 'society'...

...btw, helmuth...heinlein's 'take back your government' :rolleyes: is absolute horse-sh!t...'we' never NEVER had 'it' to begin with...
I don't know how the monetary banking system works in Lebanon

[helmuth_hubener]

...btw, helmuth...heinlein's 'take back your government' :rolleyes: is absolute garbage...'we' never NEVER had 'it' to begin with...

Oh, have you read it, Hank?

[helmuth_hubener]

Can you explain to me why Marx's premise is a bad idea " From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"?

Is it a bad idea, Ibn.AL.Muqafaa? What do you think?

[helmuth_hubener]

...a little constructive observation: ..you'd do well to develop an honest understanding of 'money' before you pop-off too much...you're not fooling anyone knowledgeable with your ludwiggery... ;)

Did you know I have created a system that will enable you to use gold as the basis for your financial life?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?509813-The-Return-of-Sound-Money

What do you think of the idea? Would you be interested in helping?

[H. E. Panqui]

Oh, have you read it, Hank?

...no...not a sci-fi fiction reader...there's enough fiction in 'the non-fiction' for me...

...but 'take back your government' = your 'return to sound money' = 'the return of the loch ness monster'...[hint: ...there can be no 'return' of something that's 'never been'...]

...as to your debit card idea...question...i give you 1000 frn's when gold is at exactly [comex] 1000 frn's/oz...6 mos. later (and no account activity) gold is at exactly 1500/oz..how many frn's are available to me?....and how many frn's are available to me if the price drops to exactly 500/oz?...

[helmuth_hubener]

...as to your debit card idea...question...i give you 1000 frn's when gold is at exactly [comex] 1000 frn's/oz...6 mos. later (and no account activity) gold is at exactly 1500/oz..how many frn's are available to me?....and how many frn's are available to me if the price drops to exactly 500/oz?...

Great question, Hank! I'm going to cross-post it to the main thread if that's alright.

When gold is at 1500/oz, $1500 FRNs will be available to you.

When gold is at 500/oz, $500 FRNs will be available to you.

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

Our crises are scars from the 15 year civil war from 1975 to 1990.
The war started Left vs Right wing, and it escalated to sectarian warfare.
Palestinian refugees started being funded, trained , and armed by Yasser Arafat and other leftists they began using violence, and with their influence the extreme christian right was created in response to the far left.
Other leftists allied with the Palestinian militias, and the Christian right allied themselves with Israel.
The Syrian Army then intervened in Lebanon under Henry Kissinger's command, as well as the Israeli Occupational Forces invaded Lebanon which made it escalate to a Sectarian Civil War.
Hezbollah was created by Iran as a response to the Israeli invasion.
During the final phase of the war, the Christians were also divided.
The war ended in 1991, by the Taif agreement, allocating quotas to the war criminals based on religious sect.
And granting a Syrian & Israeli Occupation of Lebanon.
By the year 2000 Israeli troops withdrew from Lebanon, Hezbollah took credit for the exile of Israeli soldiers.
The Syrian army, continued to torture innocent civilians when they questioned or criticized the occupation.
By 2005 former prime minister and successful business man Rafik Al Harriri was assassinated by the Syrian Army, a movement in support of Rafik Al Harriri called 14 March Alliance was formed in response to his assassination calling for the withdrawal of the Syrian occupation.
Meanwhile Hezbollah held a counter-demonstration, in support of the Syrian Army for backing up the resistance against Israel.

[juleswin]

The exile of Israeli soldiers, Syrian intervened in Lebanon under the command of Henry Kissinger, Harriri was assassinated by the Syrian Army. Hmm, is this the case of brainwashing, traitorous monsters inside the gates or just the appearance of a zionist shill pretending to be Lebanese. Only time would tell.

Oh well, time for another anti Zionist propaganda. Enjoy


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FljX4wK0ZU

[helmuth_hubener]

Hmm, is this the case of brainwashing, traitorous monsters inside the gates or just the appearance of a zionist shill pretending to be Lebanese?

I don't know much about Zionist shills, but based on the username, I definitely do not think this cypher is from Lebanon.

That said, he has been a worthwhile muse for some of us, I think.

[helmuth_hubener]

Can you explain to me why Marx's premise is a bad idea " From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"?

Is it a bad idea, Ibn.AL.Muqafaa? What do you think?

Are you not going to answer my question?

[juleswin]

I don't know much about Zionist shills, but based on the username, I definitely do not think this cypher is from Lebanon.

That said, he has been a worthwhile muse for some of us, I think.

Yea, from the sort of things he says, I don't think he is Lebanese. My guess is either a wahhabi brainwashed arab or some sort of troll trying to wind up the forum with silly questions and threads. Where you see a muse, I see a distraction.

[timosman]

Yea, from the sort of things he says, I don't think he is Lebanese. My guess is either a wahhabi brainwashed arab or some sort of troll trying to wind up the forum with silly questions and threads. Where you see a muse, I see a distraction.

His username wasn't clearly a giveaway. :cool:

[Ibn.AL.Muqafaa]

Enough with you troll accusations, and If I were in KSA, I would not say that I am an atheist.
Second, they are not silly questions I am still new to Libertarianism, and recovering from leftism, I want to learn more about libertarianism.

It's okay to defend your country from an occupation, but it is not okay to use violence against on innocent civilians in Lebanon, 9 years ago Hezbollah used violence and terrorized us https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_conflict_in_Lebanon
Their involvement in the Syrian civil war has caused Lebanon to suffer from a security crisis , and more sectarian clashes.

The user name is Arabic, and we Lebanese speak FUCKIN ARABIC, and are fluent in English to, I am using a pseudonym just like many users do here.

[helmuth_hubener]

and are fluent in English to, :)

[helmuth_hubener]

Can you explain to me why Marx's premise is a bad idea " From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"?

Is it a bad idea, Ibn.AL.Muqafaa? What do you think?

So many questions for us, but can't answer honestly one simple question from me? C'est la vie!

[Muwahid]

-The short answer is Yes, you can be a Muslim and a Libertarian, just like you have Christian Libertarians.
-The Long answer is No, the religion of Islam is against secularism and Individualism.
-Individualism & Liberty Violations:
Treatment of ***** and transgendered folks:
Qur'an 4:16

If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for Allah is Oft-returning, Most Merciful. -Supression of Freedom of Expression: Qur'an Sura 33:57-61:
Surely (as for) those who speak evil things of Allah and His Messenger, Allah has cursed them in this world and the here after, and He has prepared for them a chastisement bringing disgrace. And those who speak evil things of the believing men and the believing women without their having earned (it), they are guilty indeed of a false accusation and a manifest sin. O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. If the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease and the agitators in the city do not desist, We shall most certainly set you over them, then they shall not be your neighbors in it but for a little while; Cursed: wherever they are found they shall be seized and murdered, a (horrible) murdering.
Freedom of Expression
Sura 5:33:

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.
-Sex:
Sura 17:32:

Nor come nigh to fornication/adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils). The penalty for premarital sex is 100 lashes, and for extramarital stoning till death. Masturbation is sinful and harmful to a person's sexuality according to Islam. -Discrimination Against Jews & Christians:
Qur'an 9:29: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
-Penalty for the Apostasy & Freedom of Thought:
Qur'an 3:90-91:

Surely, those who disbelieve after their believing, then increase in unbelief, their repentance shall not be accepted, and these are they that go astray. Surely, those who disbelieve and die while they are unbelievers, the earth full of gold shall not be accepted from one of them, though he should offer to ransom himself with it, these it is who shall have a painful chastisement, and they shall have no helpers.

Theocracy & Anti-Secualrism:
The Qur'an is the first and most important source of Islamic law. Believed to be the direct word of God as revealed to Muhammad through angel Gabriel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jibril) in Mecca (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mecca) and Medina (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medina), the scripture specifies the moral, philosophical, social, political and economic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_economics) basis on which a society should be constructed. The verses revealed in Mecca deal with philosophical (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_philosophy) and theological (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_theology) issues, whereas those revealed in Medina are concerned with socio-economic laws. The Qur'an was written and preserved during the life of Muhammad, and compiled soon after his death.[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sources_of_sharia#cite_note-NomaniQ-6)
The verses of the Qur'an are categorized into three fields: "science of speculative theology", "ethical principles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_ethics)" and "rules of human conduct". The third category is directly concerned with Islamic legal matters which contains about five hundred verses or one thirteenth of it. The task of interpreting the Qur'an has led to various opinions and judgments. The interpretations of the verses by Muhammad's companions for Sunnis and Imams (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_Imams) for Shias are considered the most authentic, since they knew why, where and on what occasion each verse was revealed



You don't know much about Islam.

Why don't you also explain how the early caliphates allowed local minority communities to practice their own laws--were Christians mandated to give up swine and alcohol? Were they subjected to Islamic Shar'iah law? The answer (which may surprise you), is no.

Much of the success of Islam was in allowing people to keep their customs, laws, and traditions.

Regardless no state has ever been libertarian, libertarians can only hope to maximize personal freedoms and reduce wasteful spending as much as possible. Islam forbade heavy taxation (including [specifically] heavy tariffs the Meccans used to take advantage of merchants) and even better, there are no taxes on anyone who lives outside of a cities jurisdiction. In other words you are not required to pay a dime unless you use the services provided by a city (water, sanitation, local government, infrastructure).

While the Caliphate was still a theocracy, when it came to the localities of the caliphate it was more or less decentralized. If you were a Christian, and wanted to be married by Christian laws, if you wanted a Christian arbiter to settle disputes, etc. this was all allowed under the caliphate.