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afwjam
03-23-2017, 04:50 PM
Liberal Republicans Paul Ryan and President Trump made a final offer, Rand and the Conservatives rejected it. Should Rand and Conservative company compromise on a full repeal of Obamacare and vote for Ryan/Trumpcare called by many Obamacare lite?

phill4paul
03-23-2017, 04:55 PM
Repeal it. Up/Down. Then correct the market by extracting the government from it.

William Tell
03-23-2017, 04:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUTXb-ga1fo

dannno
03-23-2017, 04:59 PM
Seriously? What the hell are you thinking OP?

The reason the bill isn't passing is because CONSERVATIVES didn't vote for it because it did not include enough free market reforms. What in God's holy name makes you think there should be a compromise with the left?? Obviously that will NEVER work.

The correct course of action is to repeal and replace with free market reforms.

That is what Trump wants to happen, that is what he is helping Rand to do if you are paying attention and watching Rand's interviews on TV.

Swordsmyth
03-23-2017, 05:05 PM
As always with the question of compromise, the devil is in the details.
The exact compromise proposed would determine the answer to your question.
Based on the kind of compromise we usually get with Liberals my instinctive bias would be NO.

helmuth_hubener
03-23-2017, 05:07 PM
This poll is both missing some sort of option about Kludge, and also the obviously correct option which is:

✔ Eliminate the Fillibuster and then Full-Repeal, Full-Free-Market, Full-Speed Ahead!

afwjam
03-23-2017, 05:21 PM
Seriously? What the hell are you thinking OP?

The reason the bill isn't passing is because CONSERVATIVES didn't vote for it because it did not include enough free market reforms. What in God's holy name makes you think there should be a compromise with the left?? Obviously that will NEVER work.

The correct course of action is to repeal and replace with free market reforms.

That is what Trump wants to happen, that is what he is helping Rand to do if you are paying attention and watching Rand's interviews on TV.

844943801848414209

dannno
03-23-2017, 05:24 PM
844943801848414209

Ya, thanks, that's like the tenth time I've seen that tweet.

So for the fifth time, I will explain again.

If Trump was against the bill, then when it didn't pass (which he knew it wouldn't, there is a reason he is on the phone one on one with Rand three times a week), Trump would get blamed for the bill not passing and get all the heat. By supporting the bill, when it didn't pass (which again, he knew it wouldn't) the blame could be squarely placed on Paul Ryan. The failure could possibly lead to the end of his career as Speaker, which is something Trump really wants badly. So Trump had to give his tacit support and send out tweets to support a bill he knew wouldn't pass, so that he could get rid of Paul Ryan.

This is not that complex or far-reaching. This is politics, not checkers.

CaptUSA
03-23-2017, 05:32 PM
This is not that complex or far-reaching. This is politics, not checkers.

No, this is you trying to find a way to reconcile what you want to believe with what is really happening. That's it. That's all.

Face it, Dannno. There is absolutely zero ways that Trump didn't come out of this a "winner" to you. Because no matter what he does or says, you will choose to believe he's really on your side. Molyneaux's got you all kinds of messed up.

timosman
03-23-2017, 05:38 PM
Compromise has taken us places.:rolleyes:

Dr.3D
03-23-2017, 05:39 PM
Yep, Trump's support of the AHCA bill shows him to be liberal leaning. So if he is playing games by acting like he likes it, and is really against it, he will look like an idiot.

Swordsmyth
03-23-2017, 05:41 PM
Compromise has taken us places.:rolleyes:

BAD Places.

afwjam
03-23-2017, 05:43 PM
Ya, thanks, that's like the tenth time I've seen that tweet.

So for the fifth time, I will explain again.

If Trump was against the bill, then when it didn't pass (which he knew it wouldn't, there is a reason he is on the phone one on one with Rand three times a week), Trump would get blamed for the bill not passing and get all the heat. By supporting the bill, when it didn't pass (which again, he knew it wouldn't) the blame could be squarely placed on Paul Ryan. The failure could possibly lead to the end of his career as Speaker, which is something Trump really wants badly. So Trump had to give his tacit support and send out tweets to support a bill he knew wouldn't pass, so that he could get rid of Paul Ryan.

This is not that complex or far-reaching. This is politics, not checkers.

i don't care about trump. Show us where you stand and vote in this poll.

phill4paul
03-23-2017, 05:43 PM
Ya, thanks, that's like the tenth time I've seen that tweet.

So for the fifth time, I will explain again.

If Trump was against the bill, then when it didn't pass (which he knew it wouldn't, there is a reason he is on the phone one on one with Rand three times a week), Trump would get blamed for the bill not passing and get all the heat. By supporting the bill, when it didn't pass (which again, he knew it wouldn't) the blame could be squarely placed on Paul Ryan. The failure could possibly lead to the end of his career as Speaker, which is something Trump really wants badly. So Trump had to give his tacit support and send out tweets to support a bill he knew wouldn't pass, so that he could get rid of Paul Ryan.

This is not that complex or far-reaching. This is politics, not checkers.

In the five times you've managed to tweak it pretty good. Try one more time. I'm just not sold.

dannno
03-23-2017, 05:57 PM
i don't care about trump. Show us where you stand and vote in this poll.

You don't have the correct poll options. I said in my first post - repeal and replace with free market reforms.

You are the one pandering to the left by not implementing what the voters wanted.

afwjam
03-23-2017, 06:01 PM
You don't have the correct poll options. I said in my first post - repeal and replace with free market reforms.

You are the one pandering to the left by not implementing what the voters wanted.

That falls under the full repeal Rand is fighting for.

Gumba of Liberty
03-23-2017, 06:38 PM
Liberal Republicans Paul Ryan and President Trump made a final offer, Rand and the Conservatives rejected it. Should Rand and Conservative company compromise on a full repeal of Obamacare and vote for Ryan/Trumpcare called by many Obamacare lite?

What if conservatives are liberals? #redpill

afwjam
03-23-2017, 06:39 PM
What if conservatives are liberals? #redpill

Classical Liberal?

Gumba of Liberty
03-23-2017, 07:10 PM
Classical Liberal?

I don't like to give them the satisfaction of labeling me a "classical" liberal, allowing them to claim liberal for themselves.

These people are social engineers. They are utopian socialists (including varieties such as National Socialists and Communists) and should never be referred to any other way.

The 19th Century saw the rise of three political ideologies:
1. Monarchists (Noble Rights)
2. Socialists (Civil Rights)
3. Liberals (Natural Rights)

We are the liberals.

Conservatives in Europe = Monarchists
Conservatives in America = Liberals

Conservatives = Liberals

r3volution 3.0
03-23-2017, 07:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUTXb-ga1fo

Seconded


Ya, thanks, that's like the tenth time I've seen that tweet.

So for the fifth time, I will explain again.

If Trump was against the bill, then when it didn't pass (which he knew it wouldn't, there is a reason he is on the phone one on one with Rand three times a week), Trump would get blamed for the bill not passing and get all the heat. By supporting the bill, when it didn't pass (which again, he knew it wouldn't) the blame could be squarely placed on Paul Ryan. The failure could possibly lead to the end of his career as Speaker, which is something Trump really wants badly. So Trump had to give his tacit support and send out tweets to support a bill he knew wouldn't pass, so that he could get rid of Paul Ryan.

This is not that complex or far-reaching. This is politics, not checkers.

LOL

Swordsmyth
03-23-2017, 07:16 PM
I don't like to give them the satisfaction of labeling me a "classical" liberal, allowing them to claim liberal for themselves.

These people are social engineers. They are utopian socialists (including varieties such as National Socialists and Communists) and should never be referred to any other way.

The 19th Century saw the rise of three political ideologies:
1. Monarchists (Noble Rights)
2. Socialists (Civil Rights)
3. Liberals (Natural Rights)

We are the liberals.

Conservatives in Europe = Monarchists
Conservatives in America = Liberals

Conservatives = Liberals

someday that will be fixed
Isaiah 32:5

“The vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful.”

King James Version (KJV)
< Previous Verse (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-32-4/)
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▲ View Chapter (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-Chapter-32/)

Isaiah 32
1 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-32-1/)Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment.
2 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-32-2/)And a man shall be as an hiding place from the wind, and a covert from the tempest; as rivers of water in a dry place, as the shadow of a great rock in a weary land.
3 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-32-3/)And the eyes of them that see shall not be dim, and the ears of them that hear shall hearken.
4 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-32-4/)The heart also of the rash shall understand knowledge, and the tongue of the stammerers shall be ready to speak plainly.
5 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-32-5/)The vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful.
6 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-32-6/)For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the LORD, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail.
7 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-32-7/)The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right.
8 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-32-8/)But the liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand.
9 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-32-9/)Rise up, ye women that are at ease; hear my voice, ye careless daughters; give ear unto my speech.
10 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-32-10/)Many days and years shall ye be troubled, ye careless women: for the vintage shall fail, the gathering shall not come.
11 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-32-11/)Tremble, ye women that are at ease; be troubled, ye careless ones: strip you, and make you bare, and gird sackcloth upon your loins.
12 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-32-12/)They shall lament for the teats, for the pleasant fields, for the fruitful vine.
13 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-32-13/)Upon the land of my people shall come up thorns and briers; yea, upon all the houses of joy in the joyous city:
14 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-32-14/)Because the palaces shall be forsaken; the multitude of the city shall be left; the forts and towers shall be for dens for ever, a joy of wild asses, a pasture of flocks;
15 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-32-15/)Until the spirit be poured upon us from on high, and the wilderness be a fruitful field, and the fruitful field be counted for a forest.
16 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-32-16/)Then judgment shall dwell in the wilderness, and righteousness remain in the fruitful field.
17 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-32-17/)And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
18 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-32-18/)And my people shall dwell in a peaceable habitation, and in sure dwellings, and in quiet resting places;
19 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-32-19/)When it shall hail, coming down on the forest; and the city shall be low in a low place.
20 (https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Isaiah-32-20/)Blessed are ye that sow beside all waters, that send forth thither the feet of the ox and the ass.

dannno
03-23-2017, 07:33 PM
LOL

What part are you laughing at? The part about how Trump would be blamed if he didn't support the bill instead of Paul Ryan? I mean, that seems pretty reasonable to me. If Trump wants Paul Ryan out, wasn't this a good plan? I mean, it looks like it may happen.

Sorry if Trump is always two steps ahead of you.

afwjam
03-23-2017, 07:36 PM
I don't like to give them the satisfaction of labeling me a "classical" liberal, allowing them to claim liberal for themselves.

These people are social engineers. They are utopian socialists (including varieties such as National Socialists and Communists) and should never be referred to any other way.

The 19th Century saw the rise of three political ideologies:
1. Monarchists (Noble Rights)
2. Socialists (Civil Rights)
3. Liberals (Natural Rights)

We are the liberals.

Conservatives in Europe = Monarchists
Conservatives in America = Liberals

Conservatives = Liberals

I agree with you and forgive me for my use of their language in this post.

r3volution 3.0
03-23-2017, 07:37 PM
What part are you laughing at?

The part where you attempt to spin single-payer advocate Donald Trump's full-throated support for Obamacare Lite as opposition thereto.

Gumba of Liberty
03-23-2017, 07:41 PM
I agree with you and forgive me for my use of their language in this post.

No worries. It's good to remember that tyrants and charlatans always try to destroy the plain meaning of words, and that in order to defeat them you must challenge their manipulations head-on. Cheers!

Gumba of Liberty
03-23-2017, 07:49 PM
No, this is you trying to find a way to reconcile what you want to believe with what is really happening. That's it. That's all.

Face it, Dannno. There is absolutely zero ways that Trump didn't come out of this a "winner" to you. Because no matter what he does or says, you will choose to believe he's really on your side. Molyneaux's got you all kinds of messed up.

And no matter what he does or says, you will choose to believe he's never on your side.

You could be right, Danno could be right, you both could be wrong. That's because your dealing in theories. None of you have all the facts. Chill out.

William Tell
03-23-2017, 07:51 PM
Well, Trump says we have a choice between Obamacare and Trumpcare. Maybe TheTexan can tell us how we can compromise between the two.

r3volution 3.0
03-23-2017, 07:51 PM
And no matter what he does or says, you will choose to believe he's never on your side.

You could be right, Danno could be right, you both could be wrong. That's because your dealing in theories. None of you have all the facts. Chill out.

John McCain isn't really a warmongering leftist; he's just been playing a caricature all these years, to make the real ones look bad.

...could be right, could be wrong, just theories either rway, don't have all the facts.

Amiright?

Swordsmyth
03-23-2017, 07:54 PM
And no matter what he does or says, you will choose to believe he's never on your side.

You could be right, Danno could be right, you both could be wrong. That's because your dealing in theories. None of you have all the facts. Chill out.

And Danno is dealing in theories about deception/trickery, that require a mind-meld with the Prez to prove or disprove, only long term hindsight analysis in the future will even help, until then either side can believe what ever they want, without being disproved.

Swordsmyth
03-23-2017, 07:56 PM
John McCain isn't really a warmongering leftist; he's just been playing a caricature all these years, to make the real ones look bad.

...could be right, could be wrong, just theories either rway, don't have all the facts.

Amiright?

McCain has a long record of making things worse, Dump may yet acquire the same, but until then you can't disprove Danno.

Gumba of Liberty
03-23-2017, 07:59 PM
John McCain isn't really a warmongering leftist; he's just been playing a caricature all these years, to make the real ones look bad.

...could be right, could be wrong, just theories either rway, don't have all the facts.

Amiright?

We have a paper trail of McCain's treason.going back 40 years. Trump hasn't been in office long enough for that comparison to make any sense.

phill4paul
03-23-2017, 08:02 PM
We have a paper trail of McCain's treason.going back 40 years. Trump hasn't been in office long enough for that comparison to make any sense.

Would you agree that Trump is an opinionated individual?

r3volution 3.0
03-23-2017, 08:07 PM
We have a paper trail of McCain's treason.going back 40 years. Trump hasn't been in office long enough for that comparison to make any sense.

We have a record of Trump supporting socialized medicine going back decades.

A record he's never repudiated.

A record he actually grew during the campaign, when he openly praised socialized medicine in Canada and Scotland, on national television.

And now we have a sitting President actively stumping and cajoling to pass a socialistic healthcare bill.

It's a duck.

TheTexan
03-23-2017, 08:13 PM
Well, Trump says we have a choice between Obamacare and Trumpcare. Maybe TheTexan can tell us how we can compromise between the two.

I've been saying since forever that if the Republicans can put forward a bill for universal healthcare, that's something everybody can agree on. (Well, everybody except right wing extremists and their so-called "free market solutions")

TheTexan
03-23-2017, 08:15 PM
We have a record of Trump supporting socialized medicine going back decades.

A record he's never repudiated.

A record he actually grew during the campaign, when he openly praised socialized medicine in Canada and Scotland, on national television.

And now we have a sitting President actively stumping and cajoling to pass a socialistic healthcare bill.

It's a duck.

Healthcare is like way super expensive right now.

If he can pass a bill... to make health care, ... FREE....

now, that would be awesome

Swordsmyth
03-23-2017, 08:17 PM
We have a record of Trump supporting socialized medicine going back decades.

A record he's never repudiated.

A record he actually grew during the campaign, when he openly praised socialized medicine in Canada and Scotland, on national television.

And now we have a sitting President actively stumping and cajoling to pass a socialistic healthcare bill.

It's a duck.

That is my judgement as well but Danno believes all of that to be part of a deception plan, like the many reputed "Conservatives" who flip once in office and do/allow "Liberal" abominations.

phill4paul
03-23-2017, 08:19 PM
I've been saying since forever that if the Republicans can put forward a bill for universal healthcare, that's something everybody can agree on. (Well, everybody except right wing extremists and their so-called "free market solutions")

I hope by "universal healthcare" you mean universal. We broke Iraq's window and we should fix it. Also Germany and Japan. We broke their windows too. I'm going to have to google it, but, I think we broke a lot of windows. And we should at least repay them with healthcare. So many people would hopefully bring the rate down if the government, and Trump, ran it.

Gumba of Liberty
03-23-2017, 08:25 PM
We have a record of Trump supporting socialized medicine going back decades.

A record he's never repudiated.

A record he actually grew during the campaign, when he openly praised socialized medicine in Canada and Scotland, on national television.

And now we have a sitting President actively stumping and cajoling to pass a socialistic healthcare bill.

It's a duck.

We won't have to wait long to see which direction this goes and whose theories prevail.

TheTexan
03-23-2017, 08:25 PM
I hope by "universal healthcare" you mean universal. We broke Iraq's window and we should fix it. Also Germany and Japan. We broke their windows too. I'm going to have to google it, but, I think we broke a lot of windows. And we should at least repay them with healthcare. So many people would hopefully bring the rate down if the government, and Trump, ran it.

Insuring Mars may not be very cost effective... but ya, totally good point on global healthcare. It would definitely bring the costs down if we forced literally every country on the planet to pay into this system.

Sadly I think it'll be at least 5-10 years before we have the political climate to make that possible.

TheTexan
03-23-2017, 08:26 PM
Maybe we can start with Mexico. They're gonna pay for the wall, maybe we can get them to pay for the healthcare too

r3volution 3.0
03-23-2017, 08:35 PM
Healthcare is like way super expensive right now.

If he can pass a bill... to make health care, ... FREE....

now, that would be awesome

I don't know, sounds risky..

Will it cut into the roads budget?!

timosman
03-23-2017, 08:36 PM
Seconded



LOL

Welcome back.

r3volution 3.0
03-23-2017, 08:37 PM
We won't have to wait long to see which direction this goes and whose theories prevail.

Actually, if Trump & Co won't make the needed concessions to conservatives, he won't have an opportunity to sign/veto a bill.

...allowing his more devoted cultists supporters to maintain their belief that he wouldn't have signed the shitty bill he's stumping for.

CPUd
03-23-2017, 08:52 PM
401355072808185856
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/401355072808185856

helmuth_hubener
03-24-2017, 08:20 AM
Blah, blah, blah; I'm so bitter about President Trump. Also bitter that I was wrong about everything. That he won and I lost. Waaaaaaaaaah!

So, does this mean that you have gotten back from the Mall? Was it really Good? Did you pick up some cute to-die-for handbags, or just check out hot boys the whole time?

I must admit, I lost all respect for you for your dishonest weaselness. I think everyone else here did, too. And yet, you just couldn't stay away. But you couldn't lower yourself to actually keep your word, either. What's a weasel to do?

Where's your avatar, MallsRGood? Hmm? Where is it?


http://static.deathandtaxesmag.com/uploads/2015/12/trump-top-640x400.jpg

Background:

Let's Gamble: If Trumptard wins (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?498905-Let-s-Gamble-Trumptard-Is-Going-To-Win&p=6278626#post6278626)
3.0 Shows His True Colors (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?504386-r3volution-3-0-Time-to-Pay-Up)


Dishonest pieces of garbage are so revolting. Own up. Or get out. Keep your deal. Keep your word. Or stop pretending to be a libertarian.

Honesty is everything.

helmuth_hubener
03-24-2017, 08:59 AM
...