If RyanCare fails the vote, it may cost him his job

[Matt Collins]

Speculation is that if RyanCare fails the vote, there will be a motion made to vacate the speaker :D

[CPUd]

Apparently the Freedom Caucus are on hot seats as well:


Trump to Republicans: Vote for Obamacare repeal or lose your seat

'I'm asking for your vote on Thursday,' the president said.

By KYLE CHENEY, RACHAEL BADE and JOHN BRESNAHAN 03/21/17 05:23 AM EDT Updated 03/21/17 01:11 PM EDT


During a closed-door meeting with the House GOP conference, the president gave a full-throated endorsement to the House repeal bill that will come to the floor for a vote on Thursday. He warned that if Republicans don't pass the bill, "I honestly think many of you will lose your seats in 2018."

Trump even called out the bill's most vocal critic in the House, Freedom Caucus Chairman Mark Meadows (R-N.C.), who's led the conservative opposition to the Republican health care plan. "Mark, I'm gonna come after you" if he keeps it up, Trump said, according to multiple sources.

The sources cautioned that Trump may have been "half joking," as one put it. He winked and he smiled at Meadows, and acknowledged the congressman was a strong supporter of his campaign.

But singling out Meadows in front of his colleagues sent a clear message: Trump wants him to get in line. And fast.

"This Thursday we have a chance to repeal and replace Obamacare, and this time you've actually got someone who will sign the bill," Trump told them. "I'm asking for your vote."

Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) and the House GOP leadership welcomed the presidential admonition to the GOP ranks ahead of Thursday's vote, which looks by all accounts to be a cliffhanger.

GOP leaders have projected confidence in passage, and they're optimistic that Trump's personal appeal to the conference will put the bill over the top. But House Freedom Caucus members emerged from a meeting Monday night claiming they have enough votes to block the legislation.

In that regard, the meeting might have been exactly what leadership needed. Trump made abundantly clear that he's all-in on the Republican health care plan, which could determine the course of his entire first-term legislative agenda.

The president was accompanied by Health and Human Services Secretary Tom Price and White House Budget Director Mick Mulvaney, both of whom served in the House until recently. At one point, Trump joked that perhaps he shouldn't have plucked Mulvaney from the House because the vote is so close and he could use the vote.

Trump entered the meeting to loud cheers.

"We have a chance to do something fantastic, to do something amazing," Trump told the lawmakers, according to sources in the room.

He later added: "Many of you came in on the pledge to repeal and replace Obamacare. I honestly think many of you will lose your seats in 2018 if you don't get this done."
...
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/trump-health-care-obamacare-repeal-236281

[euphemia]

Good. He should have listened to the constituents.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

I'm sure Bathhouse Barry can hook him up with a night job.

[timosman]

Great. People will stop confusing Paul with Rand or Ryan with Paul.

[AngryCanadian]

I would love for McCain to lose his seat its long over due.

[MallsRGood]

Speculation is that if RyanCare fails the vote, there will be a motion made to vacate the speaker :D

https://benwilder.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/flush-the-toilet.jpg

Alas, we have to wait ~4 years to flush the other Obamacare-Lite pusher.

[Jan2017]

Apparently the Freedom Caucus are on hot seats as well:
Exactly the opposite.
Their constituents voted them in - like they also voted for Trump in part - to repeal Obamacare.

Ryancare/ObamacareLite doesn't do that -
Ryan already lost on this old folks voucher plan in 2012 as the GOP nominee for VP/President of Senate
- and his insurance cartel mandates won't be found even constitutional.

Only half the Freedom Caucus needs to vote no to defeat Ryancare, and when other GOP Congressman realize it's going down,
they are gonna start piling on with no votes to save their re-elections/primaries against new healthcare freedom candidates in 2018.
-

[RonPaulMall]

Speculation is that if RyanCare fails the vote, there will be a motion made to vacate the speaker :D

Could this have been Trump's plan all along? Go through the motions supporting Ryan's plan and then when it fails use that as the pretext of getting rid of his most powerful enemy in Congress? I noticed on CNN this morning that despite the anchor doing everything she could to paint Rand's opposition to the bill as opposition to Trump, Rand refused to take the bait and instead laid blame for the bill squarely on Ryan while insisting that he and Trump were on the same side. Could Rand and Trump have masterminded this whole thing?

[William Tell]

When Ryan was considering becoming speaker he had some demands about changing the rules to make it harder to overthrow a speaker, did those changes actually occur?

[ghengis86]

Could this have been Trump's plan all along? Go through the motions supporting Ryan's plan and then when it fails use that as the pretext of getting rid of his most powerful enemy in Congress? I noticed on CNN this morning that despite the anchor doing everything she could to paint Rand's opposition to the bill as opposition to Trump, Rand refused to take the bait and instead laid blame for the bill squarely on Ryan while insisting that he and Trump were on the same side. Could Rand and Trump have masterminded this whole thing?

I certainly hope so. But I doubt there as a mastermind plan. More so than anything, an alignment of interests for a mutually beneficial outcome. Trump pushing this Obamacare-lite is disheartening. What the hell happened to just repealing?! The votes are there. The political capital is there. The will? Not so much.

[Mordan]

Rand is upping his game. He is learning from the Master. Rand read Trump's book :) :) :)

[Jan2017]

So, is Ryan looking in the mirror when he calls the looming vote
“a rendezvous with destiny”
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/mar/21/paul-ryan-obamacare-vote-rendezvous-destiny/

[EBounding]

https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/17426023_10158838848245725_1354592600574453955_n.p ng?oh=545f36153ccb84677887171288753d4c&oe=597028E5

[Superfluous Man]

That's a good reason to vote against it all by itself.

[TruthBTold]

Speculation is that if RyanCare fails the vote, there will be a motion made to vacate the speaker :D

That would be perfect, I can't wait to see the rino go.

[Superfluous Man]

Could Rand and Trump have masterminded this whole thing?

No. They're not on the same side.

[RonPaulMall]

No. They're not on the same side.

Rand says they are on the same side.

[timosman]

Rand says they are on the same side.

Keep in mind you have to appease TPTB. It is not a time for an open revolt yet. 4D chess. :cool:

[PatriotOne]

Could this have been Trump's plan all along? Go through the motions supporting Ryan's plan and then when it fails use that as the pretext of getting rid of his most powerful enemy in Congress?


That's been my speculation for a long time...except not sure Rand has knowingly been in on "the plan". I like to call it being "Bannoned". :-). Fingers crossed my spidey senses are calibrated correctly.

[Jan2017]

When Ryan was considering becoming speaker he had some demands about changing the rules to make it harder to overthrow a speaker, did those changes actually occur?

It seems like Meadows or another Congressman could introduce a vote to vacate Ryan's position as speaker pretty quickly.
If Ryan is running ads against fellow GOP in their home districts to get them out of Congress in 2018, I'd say "fair ball".


"Rep. Paul Ryan, Boehner's eventual successor, initially stated that he would seek the Speakership only if changes were made to the rule.
A spokesperson for Ryan stated in October, "No matter who is speaker, they cannot be successful with this weapon pointed at them all the time."

The House Freedom Caucus, however, objected and reportedly called the condition a "non-starter."

Shortly thereafter, Ryan—who was elected speaker on October 29 (2015)—dropped the condition and agreed with the Freedom Caucus to
leave discussions about making changes to the rule for another time."
https://ballotpedia.org/Verbatim_fact_check:_When_was_the_%22motion_to_vac ate_the_chair%22_rule_last_used_in_Congress%3F

[shakey1]

Could this have been Trump's plan all along? Go through the motions supporting Ryan's plan and then when it fails use that as the pretext of getting rid of his most powerful enemy in Congress? I noticed on CNN this morning that despite the anchor doing everything she could to paint Rand's opposition to the bill as opposition to Trump, Rand refused to take the bait and instead laid blame for the bill squarely on Ryan while insisting that he and Trump were on the same side. Could Rand and Trump have masterminded this whole thing?

We do live in inarresting times.

http://www.kaufmancountytparty.org/http://bit.ly/SHLGYi/PaulRyan4.jpg

[ronpaulhawaii]

That's a good reason to vote against it all by itself.

+1

[CaptUSA]

Could this have been Trump's plan all along? Go through the motions supporting Ryan's plan and then when it fails use that as the pretext of getting rid of his most powerful enemy in Congress? I noticed on CNN this morning that despite the anchor doing everything she could to paint Rand's opposition to the bill as opposition to Trump, Rand refused to take the bait and instead laid blame for the bill squarely on Ryan while insisting that he and Trump were on the same side. Could Rand and Trump have masterminded this whole thing?

Here's my prediction: No matter which way this goes down, people will use it as confirmation of their pre-formed beliefs of "what is really happening".

[jllundqu]

I called my Rep and they stated he is a solid NO vote on this bill. Rand said that Ryan would pull the bill if it didn't have the votes rather than suffer a massive public defeat.

[William Tell]

I called my Rep and they stated he is a solid NO vote on this bill. Rand said that Ryan would pull the bill if it didn't have the votes rather than suffer a massive public defeat.

Yeah but when he pulls the bill he's suffered almost as big a defeat. Not over till the fat lady sings. + Rep for calling your Critter!

[CPUd]

If there's any next level gamesmanship going on here (which I doubt), we should know it when the CBO score comes out tonight. It would show that the revised AHCA would insure less people than a clean repeal of ACA. So they scrap the bill and fully repeal ACA, which is what they wanted all along.

[Origanalist]

Here's my prediction: No matter which way this goes down, people will use it as confirmation of their pre-formed beliefs of "what is really happening".

You are really going out on a limb there.

[William Tell]

Could this have been Trump's plan all along? Go through the motions supporting Ryan's plan and then when it fails use that as the pretext of getting rid of his most powerful enemy in Congress? I noticed on CNN this morning that despite the anchor doing everything she could to paint Rand's opposition to the bill as opposition to Trump, Rand refused to take the bait and instead laid blame for the bill squarely on Ryan while insisting that he and Trump were on the same side. Could Rand and Trump have masterminded this whole thing? Absolutely! Just like Obama's plan with Obamacare was to get rid of Nancy Pelosi as speaker!

She's not speaker anymore!

This explains why Trump threatened Mark Meadows to vote for the plan Trump is secretly against!

https://s14-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimage s%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcScNAXF8ZMMPDUxpY9tRKwzIrSRLjuG mAnwO-qN5pYU0ABEmp77zA&sp=3402d2faa8f20b69614343029f7e4a39&anticache=76022

[dannno]

Could this have been Trump's plan all along? Go through the motions supporting Ryan's plan and then when it fails use that as the pretext of getting rid of his most powerful enemy in Congress? I noticed on CNN this morning that despite the anchor doing everything she could to paint Rand's opposition to the bill as opposition to Trump, Rand refused to take the bait and instead laid blame for the bill squarely on Ryan while insisting that he and Trump were on the same side. Could Rand and Trump have masterminded this whole thing?

Absofuckinglutely.

You don't think they were talking about their golf game back when Trump was calling Rand a couple times a week back when all this started do you?

[dannno]

This explains why Trump threatened Mark Meadows to vote for the plan Trump is secretly against!

https://s14-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2Ft0.gstatic.com%2Fimage s%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcScNAXF8ZMMPDUxpY9tRKwzIrSRLjuG mAnwO-qN5pYU0ABEmp77zA&sp=3402d2faa8f20b69614343029f7e4a39&anticache=76022


You think that is completely out of the realm of being possible? Why?

[seapilot]

I would love for McCain to lose his seat its long over due.

Yeah he has already lost his mind.

[CPUd]

Rand has enough sense to know if he calls it Trumpcare, they won't let him post articles on Breitbart.

[seapilot]

Could this have been Trump's plan all along? Go through the motions supporting Ryan's plan and then when it fails use that as the pretext of getting rid of his most powerful enemy in Congress? I noticed on CNN this morning that despite the anchor doing everything she could to paint Rand's opposition to the bill as opposition to Trump, Rand refused to take the bait and instead laid blame for the bill squarely on Ryan while insisting that he and Trump were on the same side. Could Rand and Trump have masterminded this whole thing?

I noticed a few big supporters of Ryan calling it TrumpCare after its already been called RyanCare by Rand and many others. Trying to downplay Ryans hand at writing and bringing it to life. Trump will own it when he actually signs whatever comes out and that will be called Trumpcare. Until then its Ryan's.

[CPUd]

844602222587658246
https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/844602222587658246

[TheCount]

This explains why Trump threatened Mark Meadows to vote for the plan Trump is secretly against!


You think that is completely out of the realm of being possible? Why?
http://i.imgur.com/DIAxWH0.jpg

[dannno]

http://i.imgur.com/DIAxWH0.jpg

Ya, politicians NEVER say one thing and mean another, amirite??

[William Tell]

You think that is completely out of the realm of being possible? Why?

Because I'm not retarded.

[William Tell]

The longer answer is because Trump did everything he could to get RyanCare to pass. It still might, what then, he says oops? Seriously, the guy could get Paul Ryan fired easily if he wanted without playing secret games.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfdpcrOgUp4

[dannno]

Because I'm not retarded.

lol... ya, politicians always tell the truth :rolleyes:

[dannno]

The longer answer is because Trump did everything he could to get RyanCare to pass. It still might, what then, he says oops? Seriously, the guy could get Paul Ryan fired easily if he wanted without playing secret games.


How would he get Paul Ryan fired easily?

Rand Paul disagrees, he says Trump is on his side and wants a better bill passed.

But hey, it's become very fashionable lately to throw liberty folks under the bus. We already have people on here throwing Judge Napolitano under the bus, why not throw Rand Paul under the bus, too?

I mean, we need to defeat Trump, so if it means throwing the entire liberty movement under the bus, is that what you want?

Of course not. That's what the deep state wants. Stop doing what the deep state wants you to do.

[phill4paul]

How would he get Paul Ryan fired easily?

Rand Paul disagrees, he says Trump is on his side and wants a better bill passed.

But hey, it's become very fashionable lately to throw liberty folks under the bus. We already have people on here throwing Judge Napolitano under the bus, why not throw Rand Paul under the bus, too?

I mean, we need to defeat Trump, so if it means throwing the entire liberty movement under the bus, is that what you want?

Of course not. That's what the deep state wants. Stop doing what the deep state wants you to do.

Who, exactly, is throwing Rand Paul under the bus on this issue?

[CPUd]

Rand is not telling House members to vote for Obamacare Lite, in fact, he is telling them the opposite.

[silverhandorder]

Rand has enough sense to know if he calls it Trumpcare, they won't let him post articles on Breitbart.

Rand is not with you little CPUd

[CPUd]

Rand is not with you little CPUd

you are a false flag.

also you are fake news

[dannno]

Who, exactly, is throwing Rand Paul under the bus on this issue?

I didn't say anybody was throwing Rand Paul under the bus, I was just giving you guys the opportunity to do so since it has become so fashionable to throw liberty people under the bus for the deep state so you can fight Donald Trump... cuz you know, one random dude is so much more dangerous than the establishment :rolleyes:

[silverhandorder]

you are a false flag.

also you are fake news

Reported.

Fake American.

[dannno]

Rand is not telling House members to vote for Obamacare Lite, in fact, he is telling them the opposite.

Rand is the good cop. Donald Trump is the seemingly corrupt cop who is working with the good cop and actually trying to help everybody. Tune in next season.

[CPUd]

low energy

[Superfluous Man]

If Trump doesn't like Ryancare, it's because he wants something more socialist.

[phill4paul]

I didn't say anybody was throwing Rand Paul under the bus, I was just giving you guys the opportunity to do so since it has become so fashionable to throw liberty people under the bus for the deep state so you can fight Donald Trump... cuz you know, one random dude is so much more dangerous than the establishment :rolleyes:

Oh, so you were just shit slinging. Carry on then.

[phill4paul]

Rand is the good cop. Donald Trump is the seemingly corrupt cop who is working with the good cop and actually trying to help everybody. Tune in next season.

You'd make a pretty good writer of fan fiction.

[dannno]

You'd make a pretty good writer of fan fiction.

Sometimes, reality is stranger than fiction.

[William Tell]

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/22/white-house-trump-admin-strongly-supports-paul-ryans-american-health-care-act/

[TheTexan]

Great. People will stop confusing Paul with Rand or Ryan with Paul.

Yup. One is a rising conservative star of the Tea Party and the other is Rand Paul

[RonPaulMall]

Seriously, the guy could get Paul Ryan fired easily if he wanted without playing secret games.


How exactly would he do that? Trump has been dealing with Deep State Sabotage on a near daily basis for the past 50 days. If Trump were strong enough to depose Ryan he never would have allowed him to get elected Speaker again in the first place. Trump can't depose Ryan on purely ideological grounds because the Establishment is still too powerful. Pointing out that Ryan is an establishment shill and cuck of the highest order won't do the trick. He needs something else. He needs Ryan to fail. If Ryan can't even deliver on a bill to repeal and replace Obamacare (something backed by 100% of Republicans) then what can he deliver on? What good is he?

[Swordsmyth]

Can't wait to say "Hasta Lasagna, Via con Carne" to that loser.

[TheCount]

Because I'm not retarded.

But maybe you're just saying you're not retarded but you are retarded, and hiding your retardedness is part of your 11D plan to defeat Trump's 10D plan.

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/74103097/dune-navigator-i-see-plans-within-plans.jpg

[dannno]

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/22/white-house-trump-admin-strongly-supports-paul-ryans-american-health-care-act/

What does that prove? That the President can make statements?

[CaptUSA]

What does that prove? That the President can make statements?

Lol - must be nice. I mean, the guy can say or do anything he wants and you'll still polish him. If he does something you like, great. If he says something you don't like, you can completely dismiss it... because you know what he's really doing. lol.

Cult of personality. Play to your fantasies and you'll believe he is the answer to what you want to believe. Art of the Deal 101. Obamabots thought the same thing about their hero. lol.

[dannno]

Lol - must be nice. I mean, the guy can say or do anything he wants and you'll still polish him. If he does something you like, great. If he says something you don't like, you can completely dismiss it... because you know what he's really doing. lol.

Cult of personality. Play to your fantasies and you'll believe he is the answer to what you want to believe. Art of the Deal 101. Obamabots thought the same thing about their hero. lol.

The deep state loved Obama.. they worshipped him at his feet. The media treated him like Jesus Christ.

The deep state treats Trump like a piece of dog poop stuck on their shoe.

Pay some fucking attention..

[CPUd]

Lol - must be nice. I mean, the guy can say or do anything he wants and you'll still polish him. If he does something you like, great. If he says something you don't like, you can completely dismiss it... because you know what he's really doing. lol.

Cult of personality. Play to your fantasies and you'll believe he is the answer to what you want to believe. Art of the Deal 101. Obamabots thought the same thing about their hero. lol.

http://i.imgur.com/1KUNmV1.jpg

[dannno]

http://i.imgur.com/1KUNmV1.jpg

Thanks for the propaganda injection.

[Matt Collins]

If they pull or delay the vote, then we know that Ryan has already lost. At this point it seems likely

[CaptUSA]

The deep state loved Obama.. they worshipped him at his feet. The media treated him like Jesus Christ.

The deep state treats Trump like a piece of dog poop stuck on their shoe.

Pay some fucking attention..

Lol - "deep state"... I thought it was "the establishment". http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?508844-Gingrich-The-deep-state-will-do-almost-anything-to-undermine-Trump&p=6437614#post6437614

Seriously, Dannno. This becoming pathetic that you can't see how you're being played.

[William Tell]

If they pull or delay the vote, then we know that Ryan has already lost. At this point it seems likely
Hope it goes to the floor just to see them officially lose for once.:D

[Ender]

The deep state loved Obama.. they worshipped him at his feet. The media treated him like Jesus Christ.

The deep state treats Trump like a piece of dog poop stuck on their shoe.

Pay some $#@!ing attention..



YOU pay some $#@!ing attention.

Trump is getting all the attention his heart desires and the deep state/media/PTB focuses everyone's attention on shit that doesn't matter. In the meantime what attention is the increase of boots on the ground in Syria getting? All the buckos going to the MIC w/o a peep from Trumpeteers because, the media keeps their noses glued to the stuff that does not matter.

[William Tell]

What does that prove? That the President can make statements?

Well, if it was from Obama or Hillary it would prove they are statists. Since its from Trump it clearly proves he's a closet AnCap with a masterful chess game.

[dannno]

Well, if it was from Obama or Hillary it would prove they are statists. Since its from Trump it clearly proves he's a closet AnCap with a masterful chess game.

Why in the world do you think anybody thinks Trump is ancap?

[William Tell]

Why in the world do you think anybody thinks Trump is ancap?

Well, if he's against his own healthcare plan he's probably an AnCap too, and a Jedi Knight.

[dannno]

YOU pay some $#@!ing attention.

Trump is getting all the attention his heart desires and the deep state/media/PTB focuses everyone's attention on shit that doesn't matter. In the meantime what attention is the increase of boots on the ground in Syria getting? All the buckos going to the MIC w/o a peep from Trumpeteers because, the media keeps their noses glued to the stuff that does not matter.

That I don't entirely disagree with, the problem is it is your compadres who are helping ensure this is how it goes down.

Count how many threads CPUd and zippy make that have anything to do with countering the MIC, then count how many bullshit threads they make and get back to me.

And I don't mean countering the MIC with a bunch of anti-Russia propaganda BS, I'm talking about droning people and stuff. They probably exist, but why don't we do an experiment and see what the count is?

[CPUd]

That I don't entirely disagree with, the problem is it is your compadres who are helping ensure this is how it goes down.

Count how many threads CPUd and zippy make that have anything to do with countering the MIC, then count how many bullshit threads they make and get back to me.

And I don't mean countering the MIC with a bunch of anti-Russia propaganda BS, I'm talking about droning people and stuff. They probably exist, but why don't we do an experiment and see what the count is?

your premise is flawed, sir

[dannno]

Well, if he's against his own healthcare plan he's probably an AnCap too, and a Jedi Knight.

It's Paul Ryan's healthcare plan. Trump is just supporting it because he knows it will fail and lead to the end of Paul Ryan's reign... if Trump doesn't support it, then he will get blamed for Paul Ryan getting hosed. So he has to support it to keep in good favor so he doesn't get blamed for destroying the Republican Party. This way he can keep it together, because there is more of a semblance of unity, and the failure can be blamed squarely on Paul Ryan rather than being blamed on dis-unity in the party. In fact, a good argument could be made that if Trump didn't support it, Paul Ryan would still keep his job.

It may even be much more complex than that, but it could be as simple as that. The point is Trump doesn't make one dimensional moves. You guys can talk shit on the chess analogy all day long, but Trump won the Presidency with it and that ain't bad.

[Champ]

Not seeing a single shred of useful information in this thread. Lotta hooting and hollering.

Any actual updates on the status of said bill?

[dannno]

Lol - "deep state"... I thought it was "the establishment". http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?508844-Gingrich-The-deep-state-will-do-almost-anything-to-undermine-Trump&p=6437614#post6437614

Seriously, Dannno. This becoming pathetic that you can't see how you're being played.

The deep state is the establishment :confused:

Did you ever think it was you who is getting played?

[dannno]

Not seeing a single shred of useful information in this thread. Lotta hooting and hollering.

Any actual updates on the status of said bill?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?508902-Sen-Rand-Paul-Meets-with-House-Freedom-Caucus-25-Solid-%91No%92-Votes-Against-RyanCare

[Champ]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?508902-Sen-Rand-Paul-Meets-with-House-Freedom-Caucus-25-Solid-%91No%92-Votes-Against-RyanCare

Thank you sir.

[francisco]

It's Paul Ryan's healthcare plan. Trump is just supporting it because he knows it will fail and lead to the end of Paul Ryan's reign... It may even be much more complex than that, but it could be as simple as that. The point is Trump doesn't make one dimensional moves. You guys can talk shit on the chess analogy all day long, but Trump won the Presidency with it and that ain't bad.

Ah yes. The only real question is whether Trump is playing 4D chess or 11D Go...:rolleyes:

[CPUd]

844726595726327808
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/844726595726327808

[AuH20]

844222599085342723

[seapilot]

Great. People will stop confusing Paul with Rand or Ryan with Paul.

https://pics.onsizzle.com/paul-ryan-rand-paul-wants-to-amend-wants-to-repeal-16055307.png

[CaptUSA]

The deep state is the establishment :confused:


Lol - you're getting closer, Dannno. Have you considered why it is you stopped using one term and began using the other? Is it simply because Stefan told you to? You should really read the post I linked. You're watching their internal struggles and picking a side. The truth is that they're all neck deep in that "deep state, establishment, Bilderberg, PTB, shadow government..." Trump, himself, has lived this his entire adult life. He even wrote a book about how to manipulate people who are "not in the club".

[William Tell]

Supposedly Meadows and Trump are working on a "deal". Don't like the sound of that. :( I guess we'll see how it goes today.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/22/house-freedom-caucus-chair-strikes-agreement-with-trump-to-save-ryancare-bill/

[Jan2017]

Supposedly Meadows and Trump are working on a "deal". Don't like the sound of that. :( I guess we'll see how it goes today.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/22/house-freedom-caucus-chair-strikes-agreement-with-trump-to-save-ryancare-bill/

Part of the deal should be to introduce the motion to vacate the Speaker . . . i.e. "You're Fired!"

Capitol Hill conservatives were angry when Ryan put forward his bill
as the only Republican legislation reforming national health care policy.

In 2015, every Republican in the House and Senate voted to pass a repeal of
the 2010 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, which created Obamacare.

Instead of bringing back the 2015 full repeal bill, Ryan developed
the American Health Care Act—RyanCare—in private working groups with insurance industry representatives, etc.

[EBounding]

10D CHESS

http://i.imgur.com/oSbVuQs.png

https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/posts/10158843506715725

[Jan2017]

10D CHESS

http://i.imgur.com/htIwMTR.png

https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/posts/10158843506715725

Trump is right that Obamacare is disastrous - call your Congressman and tell them to vote "present" if Ryan decides to actually vote.

[Brian4Liberty]

Rep. Kevin Brady (R-TX), the poster child for corrupt crony establishment shills, is on Fox News pushing the bill, and saying that Rand Paul's plan is not conservative, adds 3 new entitlements and depends on Democrats to support it.

Looks like their effort now is on smearing Rand.

[William Tell]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R0yx1odP4Q

[Brian4Liberty]

The lies and propaganda that have been on Fox News and Fox Business has been astounding. Shills for the establishment are coming out of the woodwork, telling lies with no questions asked. For instance, one person basically said "the freedom caucus side just complains, and never offers any bills or proposals". No one questioned or corrected it, when they all know damn well that Rand and the Freedom Caucus have put forward multiple bills.

[CPUd]

They will be calling Rand and Justin Amash Democrat shills by tonight

[specsaregood]

Listening to this on c-span, I'm reminded how much I hate these criminal, lying, greasy cocksuckers on both the left and right.

[milgram]

844764546698924032
844908300810534912
844906872641671168

Meeting canceled = done deal?

844913065707614208

Or is the victory lap postponed?

[TheCount]

10D CHESS

http://i.imgur.com/htIwMTR.png

Someone will come along shortly to tell us what "our plan" actually means.

[specsaregood]

Someone will come along shortly to tell us what "our plan" actually means.

We have to pass it first, then you can read what is in it.

[AuH20]

If they can get rid of the 10 stipulations that the ACA mandates, I will be pleasantly surprised.

[Jan2017]

And there are other GOP Congressman not a part of House Freedom Caucus - well at least two - that seem "no" votes . . .


Today, Jaime Herrera Beutler released the following statement regarding The American Health Care Act:
Washington, DC, March 23, 2017“I remain steadfast in my commitment to repeal and replace Obamacare with health care solutions that better serve all residents of Southwest Washington. But we can do better than the current House replacement plan, and I cannot support it in its current form.

And late Wednesday night, Representative Charlie Dent, Republican of Pennsylvania and a leader of a moderate bloc
of lawmakers known as the Tuesday Group, said that he would oppose the bill.

“I believe this bill, in its current form, will lead to the loss of coverage and make insurance unaffordable for too many Americans,
particularly for low- to moderate-income and older individuals,” Mr. Dent said.
He added that he hoped that the House could “step back from this vote and arbitrary deadline to focus on getting health care reform done right.”

[Matt Collins]

They will be calling Rand and Justin Amash Democrat shills by tonightI'm surprised they haven't already. I'm guessing that Rand being in communication with Trump has helped to prevent some of it. But the rubber meets the road today.

[milgram]

844932771235729412

[William Tell]

I mean, we need to defeat Trump, so if it means throwing the entire liberty movement under the bus, is that what you want?

Of course not. That's what the deep state wants. Stop doing what the deep state wants you to do.



Hey Dannno, turns out RyanCare is a great plan. Oppose the Deep State and call your congressman asking him to support this GREAT plan today and MAGA! :rolleyes:

844873366104244225

Or you could do what Massie, Rand, and the Deep State want by opposing this GREAT plan.

[phill4paul]

Hey Dannno, turns out RyanCare is a great plan. Oppose the Deep State and call your congressman asking him to support this GREAT plan today and MAGA! :rolleyes:

844873366104244225

Or you could do what Massie, Rand, and the Deep State want by opposing this GREAT plan.

LMAO.

[dannno]

Hey Dannno, turns out RyanCare is a great plan. Oppose the Deep State and call your congressman asking him to support this GREAT plan today and MAGA! :rolleyes:

844873366104244225

Or you could do what Massie, Rand, and the Deep State want by opposing this GREAT plan.

Why does it matter what Trump says if it is going to fail anyway?

I already explained why he is giving his tacit support, it's to get Paul Ryan out.

[William Tell]

Why does it matter what Trump says if it is going to fail anyway? Because he's POTUS and it might not fail due to him throwing his full weight behind it.


I already explained why he is giving his tacit support, it's to get Paul Ryan out.

And if it passes today what will be your next fairy tale?

[CaseyJones]

how to contact your Congressperson

http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/

[dannno]

Because he's POTUS and it might not fail due to him throwing his full weight behind it.

Read. My. Lips.

The bill is going to fail.

Just as sure as Trump won the Presidency.



And if it passes today what will be your next fairy tale?

I am predicting this bill will either fail today, or some how not be signed into law.

[angelatc]

I think it will pass. I think that Ryan will cross party lines and get Pelosi's blessing to allow some moderate Democrats to vote yes.

If it fails and it's viewed as a loss significant enough to eject Ryan from the chair, I will give Trump mad props on his 4D chess skills. (That's me, desperate to believe this will fail.)

[phill4paul]

I think it will pass. I think that Ryan will cross party lines and get Pelosi's blessing to allow some moderate Democrats to vote yes.

If it fails and it's viewed as a loss significant enough to eject Ryan from the chair, I will give Trump mad props on his 4D chess skills. (That's me, desperate to believe this will fail.)

Yeah, if it fails and Ryan is ejected all credit towards defeating it should definitely go to Trump. /s

[dannno]

Yeah, if it fails and Ryan is ejected all credit towards defeating it should definitely go to Trump. /s

No, no, you still don't understand the premise here. Let me explain again so we can have a better understanding of Trump's roll in this.

If Trump didn't support the bill, then the failure would be blamed on Trump and Ryan would not be ejected. Trump would take all the heat. So Trump has to support the bill in order for the failure to fall on Ryan's hands, so that he can be ejected.

Does that make sense?

[CPUd]

No, no, you still don't understand the premise here. Let me explain again so we can have a better understanding of Trump's roll in this.

If Trump didn't support the bill, then the failure would be blamed on Trump and Ryan would not be ejected. Trump would take all the heat. So Trump has to support the bill in order for the failure to fall on Ryan's hands, so that he can be ejected.

Does that make sense?

Wouldn't it have just been easier for him to endorse someone else for speaker?

[timosman]

Wouldn't it have just been easier for him to endorse someone else for speaker?

Ryan was a perfect candidate for the job of being taken down.

[dannno]

Wouldn't it have just been easier for him to endorse someone else for speaker?

Do you even chess?

[CPUd]

Do you even chess?

Only 2D version

[CPUd]

844939957416407041
https://twitter.com/CSims45/status/844939957416407041

[William Tell]

+ rep to absolutely anyone who has called Congress opposing RyanCare :)

[jllundqu]

+ REP to anyone who can find and post a livestream to the house of Reps so I can watch this go down!

[angelatc]

No, no, you still don't understand the premise here. Let me explain again so we can have a better understanding of Trump's roll in this.

If Trump didn't support the bill, then the failure would be blamed on Trump and Ryan would not be ejected. Trump would take all the heat. So Trump has to support the bill in order for the failure to fall on Ryan's hands, so that he can be ejected.

Does that make sense?

That's exactly what I was thinking. Trump did a yeoman's job of supporting this bill. Both Trump and Pence even went on the road to promote it. If he did all that knowing it would fail and take Ryan down when it did....that's some devious stuff.

Because health care bill aside, I do not think Ryan likes Trump and vice versa.

[CaptUSA]

That's exactly what I was thinking. Trump did a yeoman's job of supporting this bill. Both Trump and Pence even went on the road to promote it. If he did all that knowing it would fail and take Ryan down when it did....that's some devious stuff.

Because health care bill aside, I do not think Ryan likes Trump and vice versa.

Just Dannno's crazy wishful thinking at play here to reconcile it in his head. It's a typical response to cognitive dissonance.

No, they went to Kentucky to try to apply pressure to Rand through his constituents. It was a play to demonstrate to those reps in vulnerable districts what they could expect.

But don't worry... However this ends up going down, these Trump supporters will find a way to say it is what Trump wanted all along and what a genius he must be.

(I'm still not sure how it'll turn out - I suppose we'll see soon - but I DO know that Trump must be a genius either way!!!)

[angelatc]

Just Dannno's crazy wishful thinking at play here to reconcile it in his head.



I try to avoid the Trump threads because there's just no point. But this particular scenario occurred in my head, not Dannno's.


(I'm still not sure how it'll turn out - I suppose we'll see soon - but I DO know that Trump must be a genius either way!!!)

The thing about cognitive dissonance is that anyone can experience it. Trump has succeeded in just about every field he's entered. He mastered business, entertainment, and now politics. But some people insist he's a buffoon?

[AuH20]

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/23/white-house-presented-freedom-caucus-with-final-offer-which-can-be-accepted-or-rejected.html

[CPUd]

844960597057966081
https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/844960597057966081

[EBounding]

So are there people on here who actually think Trump will veto this bill if it passes the House and the Senate?

[Zippyjuan]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/23/politics/house-health-care-vote/


GOP health care bill in limbo after White House meeting

Washington (CNN)The Republican health care legislation is in limbo Thursday afternoon after multiple meetings at the White House and Capitol have failed to produce a deal.

And it's unclear if a vote will even happen Thursday, as leaders hoped.

The conservative House Freedom Caucus, whose members appear to hold the key to any agreement on a final bill, met with President Donald Trump, but lawmakers aren't yet on the same page. The meeting started with a standing ovation for Trump, but there is little obvious progress they can point to, a GOP source said.

The moderate Tuesday Group had seven boxes of pizza, as well as Doritos and Baked Lays, delivered to a room in the Capitol. And dozens of Republicans are otherwise circulating from meeting to meeting, including one-on-one sessions with House Speaker Paul Ryan.

[CPUd]

844965117523570691
https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/844965117523570691

844972553487749122
https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/844972553487749122

[dannno]

Prospects dim for vote on GOP health bill in HouseProspects for the Republicans' showcase health care bill looked grimmer by the minute Thursday as President Donald Trump failed to get a deal with a bloc of balky conservatives, leaving the legislation short of votes in the House.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/gop-health-bill-brink-hours-house-showdown-vote-46319909

[jllundqu]

THey will pull the bill. THey won't let it come to a vote and suffer the public defeat. Ryan loses this round..... and so does Trump. I don't buy the whole "234D Chess scheme to oust Ryan" schtick.

[timosman]

THey will pull the bill. THey won't let it come to a vote and suffer the public defeat. Ryan loses this round..... and so does Trump. I don't buy the whole "234D Chess scheme to oust Ryan" schtick.

That's why you are where you are.:cool:

[dannno]

THey will pull the bill. THey won't let it come to a vote and suffer the public defeat. Ryan loses this round..... and so does Trump. I don't buy the whole "234D Chess scheme to oust Ryan" schtick.

That's because you don't understand how to play chess, even 2D chess it seems.

Trump lost this round alright - he lost a pawn. But on the next move he will take the deep state's rook with a knight. He wouldn't have been able to do that without losing a pawn.

[jllundqu]

That's why you are where you are.:cool:

Not sure I catch your meaning. Where am I now? lol

[jllundqu]

That's because you don't understand how to play chess, even 2D chess it seems.

Trump lost this round alright - he lost a pawn. But on the next move he will take the deep state's rook with a knight. He wouldn't have been able to do that without losing a pawn.

Again with the passive aggressive insulting bullshit with you....

[dannno]

Not sure I catch your meaning. Where am I now? lol

I'm guessing, not in the White House battling the deep state.

[dannno]

Again with the passive aggressive insulting bullshit with you....

Well then don't make statements like "Trump lost this one, I don't believe the whole 32D chess things" because that is a contradictory statement.

If you understand how chess is played, you make your opponent think you are doing one thing so they make a move to counter that plan and then you set a trap by taking a different approach with a whole 'nother plan. You take losses. It's part of playing chess, it's how you come out ahead.

If you could win chess by being honest and straightforward, then life would be much better, Ron Paul would be President, etc.. But that's not the reality of the situation.

[William Tell]

Spicer briefing live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAmUR4aiFNc



(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAmUR4aiFNc)

[nikcers]

Again with the passive aggressive insulting bull$#@! with you....

Didn't you get the memo, Trump has to hire the establishment, and let them try their policies first, and when they fail, which they always do, he is going to fire them. He can't ruin their career without giving them a career first. This is the only way to prevent them from becoming political players in the future. You see this is why they call it 4d chess, he is checkmating them 20 years from now and they don't even know it. Time is the fourth dimension, I am sure you didn't even know that.

[jllundqu]

Well then don't make statements like "Trump lost this one, I don't believe the whole 32D chess things" because that is a contradictory statement.

If you understand how chess is played, you make your opponent think you are doing one thing so they make a move to counter that plan and then you set a trap by taking a different approach with a whole 'nother plan. You take losses. It's part of playing chess, it's how you come out ahead.

If you could win chess by being honest and straightforward, then life would be much better, Ron Paul would be President, etc.. But that's not the reality of the situation.

I play chess religiously. Played with my father since I was 4, and I play with my son now who is 7. Don't presume to lecture me about strategy. I simply think Trump is a big government hack who actually LIKES the Ryan plan. I appreciate his battle with the spooks and see positive changes in that arena, but lest we forget that Trump supported single-payer-government-insurance-for-all about 14 seconds ago. You give the god emperor cheeto jesus far too much credit, imo.

[dannno]

Didn't you get the memo, Trump has to hire the establishment, and let them try their policies first, and when they fail, which they always do, he is going to fire them. He can't ruin their career without giving them a career first. This is the only way to prevent them from becoming political players in the future. You see this is why they call it 4d chess, he is checkmating them 20 years from now and they don't even know it. Time is the fourth dimension, I am sure you didn't even know that.

Why does it have to be 20 years from now? Why can't some of the dominoes start falling in a couple weeks or so?

Wouldn't you be pretty happy if he had most of the establishment cleared out within 6 months to a year?

[nikcers]

Why does it have to be 20 years from now? Why can't some of the dominoes start falling in a couple weeks or so?

Wouldn't you be pretty happy if he had most of the establishment cleared out within 6 months to a year?

I am just trying to explain it in a way dumb people can understand. Not everyone can see the forest in between the trees.

[CPUd]

Massie dropping truth bombs:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCj7agMAJ68

[dannno]

I play chess religiously. Played with my father since I was 4, and I play with my son now who is 7. Don't presume to lecture me about strategy. I simply think Trump is a big government hack who actually LIKES the Ryan plan. I appreciate his battle with the spooks and see positive changes in that arena, but lest we forget that Trump supported single-payer-government-insurance-for-all about 14 seconds ago. You give the god emperor cheeto jesus far too much credit, imo.

I trust Rand and Massie and The Judge. Rand has been on the phone with Trump several times a week for a few weeks now. Rand says Trump is on our side. Sorry, but I'm going to continue entrusting people with a history of saying and doing the right things rather than some random people on the internet who sound like they are making posts to support the deep state.

[dannno]

I am just trying to explain it in a way dumb people can understand. Not everyone can see the forest in between the trees.

It sounds more like you are trying to manipulate other people's ideas in an unrealistic way to make them sound unworkable.

[dannno]

Massie dropping truth bombs:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCj7agMAJ68

Yesterday Massie said he wants to help Trump get a second term as President.

[angelatc]

I trust Rand and Massie and The Judge. Rand has been on the phone with Trump several times a week for a few weeks now. Rand says Trump is on our side.

When did Rand say that?

[CaptUSA]

If you understand how chess is played, you make your opponent think you are doing one thing so they make a move to counter that plan and then you set a trap by taking a different approach with a whole 'nother plan.

Interesting. That's also how you set a con. I think we disagree on who is being conned here. For some reason, you seem to want to believe that this establishment billionaire who has a lifetime of using government to get what he wants, is now looking out for your interests. Any evidence to the contrary is dismissed or part of some elaborate plan that will ultimately work out for you. Good luck with that.

[CPUd]

Yesterday Massie said he wants to help Trump get a second term as President.

He is playing 4D chess, vote him in for 2 terms and then he gets term-limited and can't run anymore- checkmate.

[CaptUSA]

I play chess religiously. Played with my father since I was 4, and I play with my son now who is 7. Don't presume to lecture me about strategy. I simply think Trump is a big government hack who actually LIKES the Ryan plan.

I don't think he gives two shits about the Ryan's plan. He just wants to be able to say he got rid of Obamacare. It'll make him a legend with his supporters. Really, if he had his druthers, I think he'd just want a single-payer system like the rest of the big-government establishment hacks.

[CPUd]

I don't think he gives two shits about the Ryan's plan. He just wants to be able to say he got rid of Obamacare. It'll make him a legend with his supporters. Really, if he had his druthers, I think he'd just want a single-payer system like the rest of the big-government establishment hacks.

That's the Occam's Razor explanation. It's pretty obvious he doesn't know what is in the bill, just that it is supposed to repeal Obamacare and has lots of other terrific things like lines around the states.

[fedupinmo]

+ rep to absolutely anyone who has called Congress opposing RyanCare :)
In! I called our dear Vicky this morning...

[dannno]

When did Rand say that?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?508879-Rand-Paul-on-Erin-Burnett-OutFront-3-21-2017

[CPUd]

844982156128604161
https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/844982156128604161

[Jan2017]

Speaker Ryan press conference, originally scheduled for 11:30 and postponed to 3:30,
has just now been "postponed until further notice"

https://twitter.com/jonward11/status/844990272853422082?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp %5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[TheCount]

Hey Dannno, turns out RyanCare is a great plan. Oppose the Deep State and call your congressman asking him to support this GREAT plan today and MAGA! :rolleyes:

844873366104244225

Or you could do what Massie, Rand, and the Deep State want by opposing this GREAT plan.If you were a True Believer in His Holiness The God Emperor you would have already received your secret decoder ring which would reinterpret this message to not call your congressmen and also to drink more Ovaltine.

[CPUd]

reports are coming now that the vote will be postponed.

[Jan2017]

Saying only some procedural vote at 8pm . . . Ryan's "Thursday is the big day"

So, Rand was right.


Ryan has indefinitely postponed his 3:30 presser and now Whip Steve Scalise says only a procedural vote at 8 pm.
They don't have the votes.

GOP leaders postpone vote on healthcare overhaul

House GOP leaders postponed a vote Thursday on legislation to overhaul the Affordable Care Act
amid a Republican revolt that raised doubts about the fate of the measure.

Leaders hope to reschedule a vote Friday.
http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-essential-washington-updates-1490289183-htmlstory.html

The last-minute renegotiation of the bill spooked moderates, whose trickle of opposition to the bill became a steady stream throughout Thursday. Rep. Charlie Dent (R-Pa.), the head of the Tuesday Group, made up of roughly 50 moderate Republicans who remain in the House, announced his own opposition.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/paul-ryan-donald-trump-lose-the-battle-postpone-vote-on-aca-repeal_us_58d42251e4b02d33b749d494 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/paul-ryan-donald-trump-lose-the-battle-postpone-vote-on-aca-repeal_us_58d42251e4b02d33b749d494)

[CaptUSA]

GOP leaders postpone vote on healthcare overhaul

I must admit I'm a little sad. I was hoping for a vote and a defeat. This is good, but could have been much, much better!

[nikcers]

I must admit I'm a little sad. I was hoping for a vote and a defeat. This is good, but could have been much, much better! Try not to get too tired of winning.

[CPUd]

844995330546511872
https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/844995330546511872

[William Tell]

I must admit I'm a little sad. I was hoping for a vote and a defeat. This is good, but could have been much, much better!

Man, I'm pissed. I so wanted to see Ryan's little ass handed to him on a platter by Thomas Massie and Dave Brat today. :(


At least Rand was right I guess.

[CPUd]

845000959856119808
https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie/status/845000959856119808

[Jan2017]

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo161/sunblush/104a5e4c086c34ca7898c3207106fc_zpszfml8yae.gif (http://s372.photobucket.com/user/sunblush/media/104a5e4c086c34ca7898c3207106fc_zpszfml8yae.gif.htm l)

[AuH20]

I don't see this ever being resolved. You can count on the Scumbag Senate to strip away any revisions that the Freedom Caucus negotiated. Unless I got something in plain, unfettered writing, I wouldn't vote for it.

[nikcers]

That's the cornerstone to every Trump fantasy right, he is going to fire people for not doing their job, no one in government ever gets fired.

[dannno]

That's the cornerstone to every Trump fantasy right, he is going to fire people for not doing their job, no one in government ever gets fired.

That's precisely why he was elected. Did you ever watch his reality TV show? Why don't you think he will fire anybody? It's like his favorite thing.

[Dr.3D]

Maybe they should just vote to get rid of Obama care and replace it with nothing. I'll bet they would have the votes for that.

[silverhandorder]

I can't wait to see what happens. I don't even care to theorise. I am sure Trump will come out on too tho.

[nikcers]

That's precisely why he was elected. Did you ever watch his reality TV show? Why don't you think he will fire anybody? It's like his favorite thing.

I guess I just assumed he was an actor playing a role for a fantasy? Who did they replace him with after he was gone?

[TheTexan]

Sounds like, whatever happens, we lose a bunch of Republican seats.

I think the only winning move here, is to accept whatever bill is on the table, and spend the next 4 years talking about how great it is.

[dannno]

I guess I just assumed he was an actor playing a role for a fantasy? Who did they replace him with after he was gone?

Do you even know what the show was about?

[nikcers]

Do you even know what the show was about?
Do you even lift bro?

[Swordsmyth]

Sounds like, whatever happens, we lose a bunch of Republican seats.

I think the only winning move here, is to accept whatever bill is on the table, and spend the next 4 years talking about how great it is.

I hope you are joking.

[TheTexan]

Man, I'm pissed. I so wanted to see Ryan's little ass handed to him on a platter by Thomas Massie and Dave Brat today. :(


At least Rand was right I guess.

Making Republicans look bad isnt how you win elections.



I'm sure Collins would agree.

[dannno]

Do you even lift bro?

Yes?

[TheTexan]

I hope you are joking.

Its a plausible plan that might work. Not saying it's the best plan.

Though it is a pretty Great plan.

[nikcers]

I hope you are joking.
You are living in a tribe that is being raided by another warring tribe. You hide in the trees with your family and the rest of your tribe and you are holding your baby and it starts to cry. You can suffocate the baby and your town survives, or let your baby cry and the whole population of your tribe gets murdered.

[Swordsmyth]

You are living in a tribe that is being raided by another warring tribe. You hide in the trees with your family and the rest of your tribe and you are holding your baby and it starts to cry. You can suffocate the baby and your town survives, or let your baby cry and the whole population of your tribe gets murdered.


Its a plausible plan that might work. Not saying it's the best plan.

Though it is a pretty Great plan.


To save Republicrat seats that may not be lost anyway?

[Zippyjuan]

Delaying the vote isn't going to help get it passed. Trump learning he can't get everything he wants even if he is the president. Even if it were to squeak through the House, it isn't going to make it through the Senate. I think TrumpCare is dead. If they try it again, it will be a while.

http://www.pmslweb.com/the-blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/15-Trump-didn-t-know-health-care-could-be-so-complicated-meme.jpg

[William Tell]

Awww, Ryan is throwing a tantrum since things are not going his way.

845012027127074817

[phill4paul]

And BOOM, Ryan is out. I might have to change my thoughts on Trump since he engineered this. Wow. Did. Not. See this coming.

[CaptUSA]

Do you even know what the show was about?

Um yeah. It was about selling the attention of idiots to the advertisers. Why? What did you think it was about?

[dannno]

Delaying the vote isn't going to help get it passed. Trump learning he can't get everything he wants even if he is the president. Even if it were to squeak through the House, it isn't going to make it through the Senate. I think TrumpCare is dead. If they try it again, it will be a while.

http://www.pmslweb.com/the-blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/15-Trump-didn-t-know-health-care-could-be-so-complicated-meme.jpg

SHH!!! This is a grownup conversation, zippy.

Why don't you go start a thread about Trump being afraid of stairs or something.

[phill4paul]

Awww, Ryan is throwing a tantrum since things are not going his way.

845012027127074817

Wow. Everyone is going to have to start putting some money back to counter what I see coming in 2018. The status-quo Republicans are gonna muddy the waters and split the vote for Republicans. The status-quo Democrats are gonna insert a contender, even in heavily Rep. Districts, to further break up the vote.
2018 is gonna be naaaasty.

[sumitz1207]

If you seriously think Trump is on complete, unilateral repeal effort with Paul/Amash you are so incredibly deluded. You have to know that any repeal effort in Congress is going to be Obamacare-lite in the end. You have to know, after 100 years of a steadily expanding welfare state, that saw Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIP enshrined into the federal budget ... Come the f. on.

[dannno]

If you seriously think Trump is on the anti-AHCA but pro-Paul/Amash you are so incredibly deluded. You have to know that any repeal effort in Congress is going to be Obamacare-lite in the end. You have to know, after 100 years of a steadily expanding welfare state, that saw Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and SCHIP enshrined into the federal budget ... Come the f. on.

Do you think Rand is deluded?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?508879-Rand-Paul-on-Erin-Burnett-OutFront-3-21-2017

[sumitz1207]

I am saying that no President is going to curtail the welfare state, not Reagan, not Bush, not Trump. Especially a candidate that campaigned on no welfare austerity whatsoever. A candidate that said "Everyone is going to get covered." That is the delusion part. Sen. Paul is completely irrelevant here.

[Jan2017]

If you lapse for 63 days of insurance coverage, Ryan's plan is more like "SuperObamacare" or "ObamacarePlus" -
the mandate (penalty) is bigger, but not paid to the US but rather to an insurance monopoly.

Any vote tomorrow Friday should be for removal of the Speaker of the House.

Paul Ryan Replaces Obamacare’s Insurance Penalties with Even Larger Penalties

Avalere Health reports that the Ryan plan’s insurance penalty eclipses Obamacare’s penalty.

Paul Ryan’s Obamacare-lite plan will replace the individual mandate penalty with a premium surcharge for failing to maintain health insurance coverage over 63 days. Individuals without insurance face a 30 percent surcharge of their monthly premium. The penalty will fill the coffers of the insurance companies instead of the government.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/09/paul-ryan-replaces-obamacares-insurance-penalties-with-even-larger-penalties/

[sumitz1207]

The biggest limiting factor is Senate "moderates" (Collins, Heller, Murkowksi, Capito, Portman, Flake, Cotton). Their biggest hang up is a Medicaid expansion that hits a time limit in 2020 (and Medicaid funding becomes a block grant system), like with the current time limit in AHCA. The House bill is becoming increasing "right-wing" to appeal to the Freedom Caucus, but those moderates are offended more and more in the process.

[dannno]

I am saying that no President is going to curtail the welfare state, not Reagan, not Bush, not Trump. Especially a candidate that campaigned on no welfare austerity whatsoever. A candidate that said "Everyone is going to get covered." That is the delusion part. Sen. Paul is completely irrelevant here.

Sen. Paul is not irrelevant, you obviously haven't been following along and you clearly didn't watch the interview I posted.

Under Rand Paul's plan, everybody is going to be able to get covered too. Anybody can join an association or group that offers insurance, and they won't be turned down for pre-existing conditions.

But the main point is, in the interview I posted the interviewer kept telling Rand that he was against Trump - and Rand kept re-iterating that they were both on the same side. Rand talks to Trump three times a week, one on one. Who do you believe, the media or Rand Paul? That's really what it comes down to. If you believe Rand, and you don't believe the media, then Trump is on our side. That's where I currently stand. If you believe the media, then, well, I feel really sorry for you. Maybe you can have a sleepover with CPUd and zippy. TheCount may spring by for a surprise visit as well.

[Valli6]

danno, you perfectly described what I was already going to post about.


If you understand how chess is played, you make your opponent think you are doing one thing so they make a move to counter that plan and then you set a trap by taking a different approach with a whole 'nother plan.

I don’t see why anyone thinks it’s outlandish to say that Trump may be playing some kind of weird chess game here. This is the same guy who - right after the “grab ‘em by the pussy” video - baited reporters with a press conference, then had a couple of Clinton-rape victims show up to answer questions. :eek: Seriously, WHO - anywhere on this planet or any other - was anticipating anything even remotely like that move?! Remember the look on Bill Clinton’s face that night at the debate? :D

If Ryan doesn’t get his way, it’ll be pretty difficult to think of him as the Republican “leader”.
Gee, what a shame. :p

[sumitz1207]

Sen. Paul is not irrelevant, you obviously haven't been following along and you clearly didn't watch the interview I posted.

Under Rand Paul's plan, everybody is going to be able to get covered too. Anybody can join an association or group that offers insurance, and they won't be turned down for pre-existing conditions.

But the main point is, in the interview I posted the interviewer kept telling Rand that he was against Trump - and Rand kept re-iterating that they were both on the same side. Rand talks to Trump three times a week, one on one. Who do you believe, the media or Rand Paul? That's really what it comes down to. If you believe Rand, and you don't believe the media, then Trump is on our side. That's where I currently stand.

I still believe that Paul is isolated from moderates/centrists like Collins, Hellers, and Capito in the Senate (the true Obamacare swing votes are in the middle, not on the extreme).These people prioritize Medicaid funding first and foremost whereas Paul couldn't care less.

[afwjam]

Do you think Rand is deluded?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?508879-Rand-Paul-on-Erin-Burnett-OutFront-3-21-2017

rand is playing politics.. you on the other hand my friend have been cucked by the liberals.

[Jan2017]

fwiw, CSPAN link is now showing this "GOP stakeout" and maybe the upcoming 8pm procedural vote etc.
so far with NO need for registering/service provider.

Nothing is happening right now though.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?425914-1/steve-bannon-reince-priebus-leave-capitol-hill-health-care-talks

[phill4paul]

Any vote tomorrow Friday should be for removal of the Speaker of the House.

Now we are talking!

[Matt Collins]

Sounds like, whatever happens, we lose a bunch of Republican seats.

I think the only winning move here, is to accept whatever bill is on the table, and spend the next 4 years talking about how great it is.
Obviously this is satire

[Jamesiv1]

I wonder why they think they have to replace it with ANYTHING??!!!

Why aren't they talking about repealing Obamacare, and let the market take care of it?

[Ender]

I wonder why they think they have to replace it with ANYTHING??!!!

Why aren't they talking about repealing Obamacare, and let the market take care of it?

Wha...?

You want FREEDOM?

Don't be silly.

[Jan2017]

After an "intense" meeting, up or down vote tomorrow it looks like . . . Ryan about to come to podium

Live CSPAN
https://www.c-span.org/video/?425914-1/steve-bannon-reince-priebus-leave-capitol-hill-health-care-talks

Ryan : "Tomorrow we are proceeding"

Live US House on CSPAN
https://www.c-span.org/video/?425605-101/us-house-takes-procedural-vote-gop-health-care-bill&live=

[Superfluous Man]

I wonder why they think they have to replace it with ANYTHING??!!!

Why aren't they talking about repealing Obamacare, and let the market take care of it?

Because the rest of federal law as it would exist after Obamacare gets repealed would not allow the market to take care of it.

But the right path isn't repeal and replace, but rather, repeal and then repeal some more.

[rpfocus]

Rand has enough sense to know if he calls it Trumpcare, they won't let him post articles on Breitbart.

Indeed, it's Trumpcare. It's his plan, funny how Trumpsters want to put it on Ryan now. Here's your "repeal and replace" courtesy of The Orange One. Enjoy Obamacare light! 4D chess indeed.

http://neoavatara.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/quote-i-want-we-re-going-to-repeal-and-replace-obamacare-obamacare-is-a-total-and-complete-donald-trump-148-48-36.jpg

http://gnosticwarrior.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/April-fools-day-1080x675.jpg

[eleganz]

When did Rand say that?

Rand's been repeating his conversations with Trump for the better part of about a month now. He's constantly being asked this in interviews. At first Trump called Rand about twice in the span of about 1-2 weeks and then according to Rand, it turned into 2-3 times a week.

[undergroundrr]

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/325568-trump-tells-gop-to-take-it-or-leave-it-on-obamacare-repeal


President Trump warned House Republicans on Thursday that he will leave ObamaCare in place unless they approve legislation to repeal and replace it.

Trump officials meeting with the House GOP conference said Trump is done negotiating over the legislation, which was set to come up for a vote Thursday but was delayed.

Budget Director Mick Mulvaney, a former member of the House Freedom Caucus that has been negotiating with Trump, told the GOP conference that Trump wants a vote on Friday during a dramatic closed-door meeting, according to a GOP source in the room.

If the vote fails, Trump will move on to other priorities and ObamaCare will stay as the law of the land, Mulvaney said.

So it's trumpCare or nothing. Never was RyanCare. This is the one trump wants. Mulvaney has to be asking himself why he was stupid enough to take this job.

[eleganz]

And BOOM, Ryan is out. I might have to change my thoughts on Trump since he engineered this. Wow. Did. Not. See this coming.

Would be even more interesting (but not likely) if Rand and Trump tag teamed on this one. Good cop bad cop....

[phill4paul]

Because the rest of federal law as it would exist after Obamacare gets repealed would not allow the market to take care of it.

But the right path isn't repeal and replace, but rather, repeal and then repeal some more.

I agree. I'd be real happy with just a repeal. Then all the Republicans can talk and form a plan like the one they should have had ready after the ACA was passed.

[eleganz]

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/325568-trump-tells-gop-to-take-it-or-leave-it-on-obamacare-repeal



So it's trumpCare or nothing. Never was RyanCare. This is the one trump wants. Mulvaney has to be asking himself why he was stupid enough to take this job.

I believe it would be an underestimation of Trump/Bannon to assume they didn't know Ryan's plan will ultimately be another failure.

[Swordsmyth]

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/325568-trump-tells-gop-to-take-it-or-leave-it-on-obamacare-repeal


(http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/325568-trump-tells-gop-to-take-it-or-leave-it-on-obamacare-repeal)President Trump warned House Republicans on Thursday that he will leave ObamaCare in place unless they approve legislation to repeal and replace it.

Trump officials meeting with the House GOP conference said Trump is done negotiating over the legislation, which was set to come up for a vote Thursday but was delayed.

Budget Director Mick Mulvaney, a former member of the House Freedom Caucus that has been negotiating with Trump, told the GOP conference that Trump wants a vote on Friday during a dramatic closed-door meeting, according to a GOP source in the room.

If the vote fails, Trump will move on to other priorities and ObamaCare will stay as the law of the land, Mulvaney said.



So it's trumpCare or nothing. Never was RyanCare. This is the one trump wants. Mulvaney has to be asking himself why he was stupid enough to take this job.

This is just plain stupid. Congress can send any bill they want to Dump and then he will have to sign or veto it.

[phill4paul]

Would be even more interesting (but not likely) if Rand and Trump tag teamed on this one. Good cop bad cop....

My post was sarcasm. Mea Culpa for not /s'ing

[undergroundrr]

This is just plain stupid. Congress can send any bill they want to Dump and then he will have to sign or veto it.

Absolutely. Mulvaney knows that too. I have to assume it's what trump told him to say, but we may never know. Mulvaney was once a serious fiscal conservative. This is sad to see.

[Jan2017]

So it's trumpCare or nothing. Never was RyanCare. This is the one trump wants. Mulvaney has to be asking himself why he was stupid enough to take this job.

Not how I read/watched it . . . Trump wants the vote now for Ryan's plan - he is done negotiating for Ryan.
It seems they know it's going down, and Ryan is reluctant to have the vote at all.
Within the first 100 days Trump/Rand will have Ryan gone as Speaker.

[Swordsmyth]

Not how I read/watched it . . . Trump wants the vote now for Ryan's plan - he is done negotiating for Ryan.
It seems they know it's going down, and Ryan is reluctant to have the vote at all.
Within the first 100 days Trump/Rand will have Ryan gone as Speaker.
From your mouth to GOD's ear.

[phill4paul]

Within the first 100 days Trump/Rand will have Ryan gone as Speaker.

Sig worthy.

[undergroundrr]

Within the first 100 days Trump/Rand will have Ryan gone as Speaker.
TheCount, you may want to add this to the list.

[georgiaboy]

Rand is Art of the Dealing the conservatives into having the strongest leverage they've had in my life. Stick together, freedom caucus!

[William Tell]

SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT NO!!!!


845083770495680512

[WTLaw]

$#@! $#@! $#@! $#@! NO!!!!


845083770495680512

I bet you the unnamed representative is a yes vote, and is trying to bluff out a stampede of last second yes votes. People want cover, either for or against.

[William Tell]

I bet you the unnamed representative is a yes vote, and is trying to bluff out a stampede of last second yes votes. People want cover, either for or against.

Hope so. Either way we need more calls against it tomorrow than we even had today. Too many cowards in the Freedom Caucus as we have seen in the past.

[AuH20]

845090579214159874

[eleganz]

845090579214159874

That would mean that Trump has been really hands off and not paying attention to what has been going on...?

[eleganz]

I bet you the unnamed representative is a yes vote, and is trying to bluff out a stampede of last second yes votes. People want cover, either for or against.

Yup, they're trying to create an atmosphere of victory and getting any HFC members who might feel a little weak kneed at the last hour.

If they stick together, I have a whole new respect for them, a lot is riding on their courage right now.

[CPUd]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7pnG_2XQAAUn-r.jpg

[TheCount]

@TheCount (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=58229), you may want to add this to the list.Nice.

Though... if I add enough, eventually one will be right.

[William Tell]

+ REP to anyone who can find and post a livestream to the house of Reps so I can watch this go down!


should be here. They guesstimate the 4-5 PM ET vote.




UPDATE: VOTE TODAY! 3/24/17


House Session The House convened to debate and vote on the American Health Care Act, a Republican bill to replace the Affordable Care Act.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?425937-1/house-begins-debate-health-care-bill-vote-expected-afternoon&live

[Jan2017]

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/325568-trump-tells-gop-to-take-it-or-leave-it-on-obamacare-repeal


President Trump warned House Republicans on Thursday that he will leave ObamaCare in place unless they approve legislation to repeal and replace it.

Trump officials meeting with the House GOP conference said Trump is done negotiating over the legislation, which was set to come up for a vote Thursday but was delayed.

Budget Director Mick Mulvaney, a former member of the House Freedom Caucus that has been negotiating with Trump, told the GOP conference that Trump wants a vote on Friday during a dramatic closed-door meeting, according to a GOP source in the room.

If the vote fails, Trump will move on to other priorities and ObamaCare will stay as the law of the land, Mulvaney said.

So it's trumpCare or nothing. Never was RyanCare. This is the one trump wants. Mulvaney has to be asking himself why he was stupid enough to take this job.

That is a spin that I don't see it that way at all


Not how I read/watched it . . . Trump wants the vote now for Ryan's plan - he is done negotiating for Ryan.
It seems they know it's going down, and Ryan is reluctant to have the vote at all.
Within the first 100 days Trump/Rand will have Ryan gone as Speaker.

This is video of just the last 35 secs. of House GOP stakeout last night . . .
https://www.c-span.org/video/?425914-1/speaker-ryan-says-house-will-vote-health-care-bill

Priebus and Bannon left about halfway through the GOP House Member meeting. That is when CSPAN first reported
that WH wants a Friday vote.

One of the two congressman that comes out (before Ryan excerpt above) described it as "intense" . . .
he implied like Rand has said that Freedom Caucus seemed to be a bloc of some degree. He did as he always has and "waited till the end of legislation to decide, he seemed probable yes depending what the new House revision is this morning.
WH is gone from this now.

In the end it was the GOP members agreed they would vote with 4 GOP voted with all Democrats to not even vote yet.

(It was funny after that when the Congressman Andrea Mitchell was interviewing left, they all asked who was that ? LOL She didn't know.

Whatever Mike Lee / Rand Paul legislation that comes out of both houses of Congress (as Ryancare up/down is DOA in Senate),
or other GOP repeal of Obamacare - any is NOT gonna be vetoed but signed in to law. Besides, Trump has a wall to build.

[Jan2017]

should be here. They guesstimate the 4-5 PM ET vote.

Thanks, and thanks CSPAN. https://www.c-span.org/video/?425937-1/house-debates-gop-health-care-bill-vote-expected-afternoon&live=

Sounds like Californian is arguing about what the "Congressman from Kentucky" (John Yarmuth- D) said

[rpfocus]

https://freedomshammer.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/trumpcare-logo.jpg?w=1000

[Jan2017]

https://www.c-span.org/video/?425937-1/house-debates-gop-health-care-bill-vote-expected-afternoon&live=

Recent debate seems like sob stories from both sides of the aisle
If GOP bill doesn't pass . . . death, abortions
If GOP bill passes . . . "44,000 more deaths in your own district"

I am convinced already - they're right.

This Dem guy must have statistics for every district. Next . . .


If GOP bill doesn't pass . . . death, abortions
If GOP bill passes . . . "50,000 more deaths in your own district"

[Zippyjuan]

SHH!!! This is a grownup conversation, zippy.

Why don't you go start a thread about Trump being afraid of stairs or something.

That is UWDude's job.

[dannno]

That is UWDude's job.

I'm ok with him posting that thread because he was mocking the media, and I recalled that he was the one who posted it. Your intention of posting a thread like that would be to mock Trump...

Do you see the difference?

[Superfluous Man]

Your intention of posting a thread like that would be to mock Trump...


Which is a much more noble goal than defending Trump.

[dannno]

Which is a much more noble goal than defending Trump.

That would depend on the issue.

[William Tell]

House Appropriations Chair Rodney Frelinghuysen Rebukes Speaker Paul Ryan: Obamacare 2.0 Is ‘Currently Unacceptable’
“Seven years after enactment of Obamacare, I wanted to support legislation that made positive changes to rescue healthcare in America,” Frelinhguysen, who has been lauded as the Garden State’s most powerful congressman, wrote in a Facebook post.

Unfortunately, the legislation before the House today is currently unacceptable as it would place significant new costs and barriers to care on my constituents in New Jersey. In addition to the loss of Medicaid coverage for so many people in my Medicaid-dependent state, the denial of essential health benefits in the individual market raise serious coverage and cost issues. I remain hopeful that the American Health Care Act will be further modified. We need to get this right for all Americans.

The House Speaker almost never loses the Appropriations Chairman on major pieces of legislation. The fact Frelinghuysen is against the bill calls into question Ryan’s ability to lead the conference–including his own committee chairs–in the future on other pieces of legislation. It shows just how unpopular this legislation really is GOP-wide, and further demonstrates Ryan’s inability to bring together the different factions of the House Republican conference.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/24/house-appropriations-chair-rodney-frelinghuysen-rebukes-speaker-paul-ryan-obamacare-2-0-is-currently-unacceptable/

[undergroundrr]

Which is a much more noble goal than defending Trump.

Out of rep

[William Tell]

Paul Ryan Rushes to White House to Tell Trump Votes Are Lacking to Repeal Obamacare
WASHINGTON — House Speaker Paul D. Ryan, facing a revolt among conservative and moderate Republicans, rushed to the White House Friday afternoon to inform President Trump he did not have the votes to pass legislation to repeal the Affordable Care Act and to decide whether to pull the bill from consideration.


The president and the speaker faced the humiliating prospect of a major defeat on legislation promised for seven years, since the landmark health legislation was signed into law. President Trump had demanded a vote regardless, which has been scheduled for Friday afternoon. But House leaders were leaning against such a public loss.


The House opened debate Friday on what would have been one of the most consequential pieces of legislation in years, a bill that would have rolled back a major, established social welfare program, a feat that is almost unheard of.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/24/us/politics/health-care-affordable-care-act.html?_r=0

[William Tell]

Exclusive–Rep. Kevin Brady: ‘It Is Clear We Don’t Have the Votes’ to Pass Ryancare
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/23/exclusive-rep-kevin-brady-it-is-clear-we-dont-have-the-votes-to-pass-ryancare/

[Jamesiv1]

This just in from CNN discussion panel:

Wolf: "Look, the Ryan plan is a shoe-in. Polls show 98% approval in the House and Senate."
Anderson: "You got that right, Wolf. Look, the only question now is how big a landslide is it going to be."
Chris: "Look, the Trump administration has been holed up in the White House all day today. Planning how to explain this humiliation, no doubt."
Erin: "Look, this embarrassment for Trump is already invoking talk about impeachment."
Brett: "From anonymous sources, of course."
Erin: "Look, of course they are."
Wolf: "Quit telling me to look, Erin."
Erin: "You quit telling ME to look, asswipe."
[mics out. technical difficulties]

[William Tell]

Outlook looking bleak for GOP on 'Obamacare' repeal bill

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Republicans' capstone health care overhaul seemed in dire trouble Friday as Speaker Paul Ryan weighed strategy at the White House with President Donald Trump. GOP lawmakers and aides said they lacked the votes to succeed in the House, just hours before a do-or-die showdown demanded by Trump.

GOP leaders pushed toward a climactic House roll call, but their promise to stage the vote increasingly looked like a losing gamble for the new president and his GOP allies in Congress.

Vice President Mike Pence was meeting near the Capitol with the House Freedom Caucus. That group's hard-right members, along with a growing band of party moderates, have been driving GOP opposition and threatening to crash one of Trump's and Ryan's top priorities.

"I think the president has given it his all," White House spokesman Sean Spicer told reporters in what sounded like a concession that the measure's fate was bleak. He added, "The speaker has done everything he can. You can't force people to vote." http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CONGRESS_HEALTH_OVERHAUL?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-03-24-05-52-03

[CPUd]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CONGRESS_HEALTH_OVERHAUL?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-03-24-05-52-03

Not sure Pence is the same type of "hard-right" as a lot of the HFC members.