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View Full Version : Why Paul can't woo Christian right and Huck can




fedup100
12-10-2007, 09:51 AM
http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20071207.html

Dr. Paul must call a spade a spade and have his own cleansing presidential speech just as Romney did. He must explain his religious affiliation and then begin the show with brutal truth to the American Christian Right.

He must point out that they were duped by lying rhetoric from Bush and then point out What he has done to destroy the Country while they turned a blind eye.

He must point out that Huckabee just addressed the CFR and reference the speech he gave. the CFR is calling the shots on who the MSM will put up as front runner and they have found their man in the Lyng traitor and faux Christian Huckabee.

There have been many threads asking why Christians don't endorse Paul, it is simple, HE WON"T LIE TO THEM TO GET THEIR VOTE!

He must be more aggressive on this and tell the Christians the truth of how they are being manipulated.

iella
12-10-2007, 09:56 AM
Ron Paul is entirely opposed to the idea of discussing his faith in a political context. He clearly stated this in his statement of faith, which as far as I know is the only time he has publicly addressed the issue (the whole point being to prevent further discussion). That's the way Dr. Paul operates, and in my opinion that's the best way.

It's up to us as his supporters to enlighten the Christian right to a biblical perspective on government. If you are trying to convince someone in particular, try this (shameless self-plug here):

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=47829

allyinoh
12-10-2007, 09:57 AM
Because the people that are following Huckabee are blinded. I am a Christian and I find Huckabee's use of his faith to garner votes offensive.

yongrel
12-10-2007, 10:03 AM
Were Ron paul to do what the OP proposes, he would be going against his long-held opinion that his faith is a personal matter, not an item to be waved about to garner votes.

Ridiculous
12-10-2007, 10:08 AM
Huck is much better at sound bite speaking than Ron is....

Plus he talks to the audience in the debates as if he were addressing a retarded child.

tfelice
12-10-2007, 10:09 AM
He must be more aggressive on this and tell the Christians the truth of how they are being manipulated.

People do not want to be told they have been manipulated, it is far better to allow them to figure it out for themselves. That said, the Paul campaign has not done nearly enough to reach out to the Evangelical base. This base has been screaming for a candidate to call their own, and Paul's message could have captured their hearts & minds.

Tedhunter
12-10-2007, 10:13 AM
According to that Chuck Baldwin article, all Ron Paul has to do is win the nomination, and then he'll have the blind fervor of the Christian Right on his side. :P

LibertyEagle
12-10-2007, 10:13 AM
People do not want to be told they have been manipulated, it is far better to allow them to figure it out for themselves. That said, the Paul campaign has not done nearly enough to reach out to the Evangelical base. This base has been screaming for a candidate to call their own, and Paul's message could have captured their hearts & minds.

I agree that Paul needs to do much more to reach out to evangelicals. I seriously wish he would meet with Dr. Dobson. While I'm at it, I also wish he'd meet with Phyllis Schlafly too. It would be great to get both of their endorsements.

C'mon campaign.... DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :(

InRonWeTrust
12-10-2007, 10:16 AM
Ron will not sink to Huck's level, pandering to religious people. He has already said so.

fuzzybekool
12-10-2007, 10:19 AM
Ron Paul is Ron Paul. If the suggestion is he gets off his message of Liberty and adherence to the Constitution to pander to right-wing conservatives, I would totally be turned off by that notion and so would thousands of other Ron Paul supporters.

The reason this movement has grown and still growing is because Ron Paul has not pandered, even when booed by the Neo-Cons and the Moral Majority at debates.

He is different. His message is different, But most importantly, his message is TRUTH, and the Truth will set us all FREE.

coffeewithchess
12-10-2007, 10:27 AM
Because the people that are following Huckabee are blinded. I am a Christian and I find Huckabee's use of his faith to garner votes offensive.
I agree. I find it absolutely disgusting that Huckabee is using his faith and using churches to further his campaign. I am a Southern Baptist Evangelical Christian, btw.

tfelice
12-10-2007, 10:28 AM
Ron will not sink to Huck's level, pandering to religious people. He has already said so.


Reaching out and pandering are two different things. So far the campaign has done neither. It is a huge voting block that, from what I can see so far, is going to go for Huckabee. Like it or not, no candidate can win the GOP nomination without a sizable amount of support from the Evangelical base.

Brutus
12-10-2007, 10:28 AM
What has happened to us that we have to have liberty SOLD to us?

JMann
12-10-2007, 11:01 AM
The last thing the most militant members of the Christian right want is liberty and freedom. They want a federal government that is based on Christian law and that anyone that doesn't follow their practice will surely die and parish. Many of this same group gave us racism in the 60's, sexism in the 70's and the sexual orientation discrimination of the 80's.

The Christian right is usually looking for a devil and since Ron Paul wants everyone to be treated equally under the law and that all people enjoy the same right of liberty and freedom he doesn't agree with the most extreme followers of the Bible or more importantly in this case, they don't agree with him.

RonPaulMania
12-10-2007, 11:41 AM
Because the people that are following Huckabee are blinded. I am a Christian and I find Huckabee's use of his faith to garner votes offensive.

You can't find it offensive if you are for free-speech. I find it offensive because he doesn't live like a Christian and yet uses Christ to get votes. He speaks of Christ as a talking point but released murderers, rapists, and abusing gov't by stealing for personal gain. A man like that cannot use Christ without first denouncing his own candidacy.

We are all hypocrites to the lives we profess to some degree, but when you do it publicly and repeatedly you are officially lost all ability to be a public official. Who hasn't fallen short of their own personal ideals? Yet, when it comes to politics or public life in general if you don't live up to those ideals you shouldn't be elected because you influence millions of people so it's not about you anymore. I may not agree with Dr. Paul on some issues, but as a public servant he is the most reputable man in Congress probably ever and that's one of the biggest reasons why I support him.

Dr. Paul is a statesman who works for the good of the people. Huckabee is politician who abuses his social status.

quickmike
12-10-2007, 11:45 AM
Because the people that are following Huckabee are blinded. I am a Christian and I find Huckabee's use of his faith to garner votes offensive.

Why are you in the minority?

I mean, im not labeling all christians in any one group or another, but it seems so many of them are just mind numbed robots that just "follow the leader" without using their own judgement in things like this.

maybe im wrong here, but it sure seems that way.

Any ideas?

allyinoh
12-10-2007, 12:59 PM
Why are you in the minority?

I mean, im not labeling all christians in any one group or another, but it seems so many of them are just mind numbed robots that just "follow the leader" without using their own judgement in things like this.

maybe im wrong here, but it sure seems that way.

Any ideas?

You know, I'm not sure. I could be different than them, I don't support organized religion and I don't go to church. I know of many strict Christians who think it's the governments job to dictate morality, ie. passing amendments to ban gay marriage, abortions, etc.

Huckabee comes along and tells the Christian right what they want to hear and some people just go along with it.

I'm not sure why I'm in a minority. I am going to think about this some more and get back with you.

allyinoh
12-10-2007, 01:02 PM
You can't find it offensive if you are for free-speech. I find it offensive because he doesn't live like a Christian and yet uses Christ to get votes. He speaks of Christ as a talking point but released murderers, rapists, and abusing gov't by stealing for personal gain. A man like that cannot use Christ without first denouncing his own candidacy.


Yes, I can find it offensive and be for free-speech. He's not expressing his views, he's falsely leading people to believe that he's sent here from God to save our country and people believe this BS.

I don't disagree with you and that's why I find it offensive as well. Jesus lead by example, he didn't force people to follow him or try to persuade them.

Huckabee is not leading by example and is trying to persuade Christians to vote for him falsely. THATS what I find offensive that he's USING God to his advantage to garner votes, among other things.

tfelice
12-10-2007, 01:03 PM
Why are you in the minority?

I mean, im not labeling all christians in any one group or another, but it seems so many of them are just mind numbed robots that just "follow the leader" without using their own judgement in things like this.

maybe im wrong here, but it sure seems that way.

Any ideas?

Evangelicals are no different than any other major segment of the population in that they want to be part of the mainstream and not a fringe movement. Paul meets all the traditional litmus tests of Evangelicals (Christians, pro-life, pro-family, etc) and he shares their values. But Paul has been labeled as a fringe candidate with fringe supporters and sadly the campaign has done little to shake off that image (btw running ads in High Times won't help).

So it's crunch time and voters need to start making a decision. They see three candidates in the GOP that meet the basic requirements Tancredo, Huck & Paul. Tancredo is so far off the radar that few will get in his corner, Paul is viewed by many as a fringe candidate that doesn't stand a chance, and then there's Huck who has reached out to Evangelicals and has a good showing in the polls. So when it comes to election day and it's Rudy, Mitt, Thompson or someone else; in large part that someone else will likely be Huckabee - not because they agree with everything he says, but because he is showing himself to be a viable, mainstream candidate that shares their values.

austin356
12-10-2007, 01:07 PM
Were Ron paul to do what the OP proposes, he would be going against his long-held opinion that his faith is a personal matter, not an item to be waved about to garner votes.


Doing what Pastor Baldwin is proposing is not brining personal faith into the political arena. Discussing the already being addressed politics of faith and how many Christians have been duped is very much different from what he opposes.

frasu
12-10-2007, 01:09 PM
Ron Paul is entirely opposed to the idea of discussing his faith in a political context. He clearly stated this in his statement of faith, which as far as I know is the only time he has publicly addressed the issue (the whole point being to prevent further discussion). That's the way Dr. Paul operates, and in my opinion that's the best way.

It's up to us as his supporters to enlighten the Christian right to a biblical perspective on government. If you are trying to convince someone in particular, try this (shameless self-plug here):

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=47829

Damn right! In the context maybe it is a "bad" idea to do what you preach because truth ideas become too subtile, but this is the right way to operate.

Ridiculous
12-10-2007, 01:10 PM
If you really want to see how evangelicals view the world, watch this movie:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/jesus_camp/

austin356
12-10-2007, 01:10 PM
You can't find it offensive if you are for free-speech.

this makes no sense.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I find millions of things offensive but still believe in the freedom to express such things.

freelance
12-10-2007, 01:17 PM
Because the people that are following Huckabee are blinded. I am a Christian and I find Huckabee's use of his faith to garner votes offensive.

How about this headline on today's Drudge Report: Take this Nation Back for Christ

It links to this story:

http://www.ardemgaz.com/prev/jonesboro/afhuckabee08.asp

I couldn't be more appalled if I tried. Do the American people really want a theocracy?

Eric23
12-10-2007, 01:23 PM
Because Ron Paul doesn't pander to certain groups like Huckabee and the other candidates do. And he shouldn't have too.

tfelice
12-10-2007, 01:30 PM
Because Ron Paul doesn't pander to certain groups like Huckabee and the other candidates do. And he shouldn't have too.

Again, Paul does not need to pander, but instead reach out to the Evangelical voting block. And he has done little if anything to do so. Without strong support in the Evangelical community he cannot win the nomination.

allyinoh
12-10-2007, 01:31 PM
How about this headline on today's Drudge Report: Take this Nation Back for Christ

It links to this story:

http://www.ardemgaz.com/prev/jonesboro/afhuckabee08.asp

I couldn't be more appalled if I tried. Do the American people really want a theocracy?

I saw it and about threw up.

Seriously, I find it so appaling that this guy is portraying himself as the new "messiah" almost and he's so far from it and such a shady person.

ValidusCustodiae
12-10-2007, 01:33 PM
Evangelical support for war mongers has everything to do with ISRAEL.

quickmike
12-10-2007, 01:35 PM
I dont understand this crap.

Ok, so Huckster says the US gave up on religion. So what does he think he can do about it? Is he going to put forward legislation to bring religion into government by FORCE? WTF? Make us all join the church of our choice at the point of a gun?

If people agree with him that america has gone away from religion, then why dont those people that agree with him just get off their asses and go sign people up to go to church with them? I guess they want a leader that will attempt to force it.



Scary stuff.

max
12-10-2007, 01:35 PM
http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20071207.html

Dr. Paul must call a spade a spade and have his own cleansing presidential speech just as Romney did. He must explain his religious affiliation and then begin the show with brutal truth to the American Christian Right.

He must point out that they were duped by lying rhetoric from Bush and then point out What he has done to destroy the Country while they turned a blind eye.

He must point out that Huckabee just addressed the CFR and reference the speech he gave. the CFR is calling the shots on who the MSM will put up as front runner and they have found their man in the Lyng traitor and faux Christian Huckabee.

There have been many threads asking why Christians don't endorse Paul, it is simple, HE WON"T LIE TO THEM TO GET THEIR VOTE!

He must be more aggressive on this and tell the Christians the truth of how they are being manipulated.



You are 100% correct. RP has to go on the OFFENSIVE to expose these clowns.

Unfortunately, RP is too nice a guy to do this....which is why he is going to lose.

tfelice
12-10-2007, 01:36 PM
Evangelical support for war mongers has everything to do with ISRAEL.


Wrong. There is a large segment of Evangelicalism that is not Dispensational, so support for Israel is not a major issue at all. The litmus test the majority of Christians use is faith, abortion & family values. Paul passes the test with flying colors, but in general is viewed by Evangelicals as a fringe candidate.

Working in ministry as I do, I am in contact with many Christians and this is what I have seen, heard & read.

Magsec
12-10-2007, 01:37 PM
I prefer the firm, rational Christians to the softer, compassionate ones myself. I just get more content rather than the same feelgood thing over and over and over and over...

rodent
12-10-2007, 01:38 PM
Huck is much better at sound bite speaking than Ron is....

Plus he talks to the audience in the debates as if he were addressing a retarded child.

True. I think most of America operates on the level of a retarded child these days, too. It's questionable whether anyone with a high school diploma actually retained any knowledge beyond the 6th to 8th grade level.

I genuinely feel as if America would be served better by putting more people to work in coal mines -- including children.

Ridiculous
12-10-2007, 01:46 PM
But seriously, if you want to know how Evangelicals operate, watch Jesus Camp.

tfelice
12-10-2007, 01:50 PM
But seriously, if you want to know how Evangelicals operate, watch Jesus Camp.

That film shows a small segment of Evangelicalism, and in fact is such a minority its not even funny. If you really want to know about Evangelicals, find a healthy church in your area (I suggest a PCA church (http://www.pcanet.org/directory.asp)) and experience it first hand.

Chernitsky
12-10-2007, 01:52 PM
because the Evangelicals don't have open-minds - they expect everyone to tell them what they want to hear

disciple
12-10-2007, 01:53 PM
Ron Paul is about peace, turning the other cheek, the golden rule. Most evangelicals, deceived by false teachers, are not.

tfelice
12-10-2007, 01:54 PM
because the Evangelicals don't have open-minds - they expect everyone to tell them what they want to hear

Nice way to generalize. You do realize Paul is an Evangelical Christian don't you?

Hurricane Bruiser
12-10-2007, 01:56 PM
I think Ron Paul should sit down with Dennis Hof and Dr. Dobson to discuss strategy. lol

tfelice
12-10-2007, 02:01 PM
I'm calling it a day, but I will say that I am shaking my head at how many in the grassroots just writes off the Evangelical vote and mocks their principles. Paul cannot win without them, so if we expect to get above 10% in any of the primaries, we need to stop mocking them and start reaching out to them. Otherwise, we will see Huckabee take a sizable percentage of the base, and this could propel him to a win.

Lord Xar
12-10-2007, 02:09 PM
Huck is active, Ron isn't. You need your boots on the ground meeting people who are NOT supporters. When you just meet those who are crazy about you, you get a distorted view of the 'real' need to reach NEW voters.

RonPaulMania
12-10-2007, 02:20 PM
Yes, I can find it offensive and be for free-speech. He's not expressing his views, he's falsely leading people to believe that he's sent here from God to save our country and people believe this BS.

He never said that. You can't find it offensive unless you saying you are for free speech except when you disagree.


Jesus lead by example, he didn't force people to follow him or try to persuade them.

I highly disagree. He said (I'm paraphrasing): "He who does not believe in me shall die in their sins." He did make unequivocal statements about belief. Jesus did lead by example and not Huckabee. Again, my point is not the principle of what Huckabee says, but the messenger who abuses Christ to make a talking point while repeatedly abusing his public office. I would have no problem with Ron Paul making a talking point, like his statement of faith, but when someone like Huckabee does I have issues.


Huckabee is not leading by example and is trying to persuade Christians to vote for him falsely. THATS what I find offensive that he's USING God to his advantage to garner votes, among other things.

In a free society there is nothing wrong with it in principle. When the man who upholds this image abuses it to sway the ignorant with his anti-Christian principles I have big time problems.

I would have no problem with a Republican monarchist who preached Christianity through his teeth as long as this person did not abuse his office previously. The government we have is very pliable and frankly it's a political experiment. Some are learning how to abuse the experiment and are succeeding, some are trying to make the most of it.

jeremycobert
12-10-2007, 02:23 PM
hucklebury peaked too early, the next debate is going to see rudy and romney unload on him. pardons,tax hikes and educating illeagals.. all of this should come out in the next debate.

with any luck RP can finish in the top 4 and avoid the mudslinging.

dircha
12-10-2007, 02:28 PM
He never said that. You can't find it offensive unless you saying you are for free speech except when you disagree.

Quit with the idiotic semantic quibbling already. You're not helping anyone.

Congressman Paul himself says he finds it distasteful when politicians wear their faith on their sleeve in order to garner votes.

Diana
12-10-2007, 02:28 PM
You know, I'm not sure. I could be different than them, I don't support organized religion and I don't go to church. I know of many strict Christians who think it's the governments job to dictate morality, ie. passing amendments to ban gay marriage, abortions, etc.

Huckabee comes along and tells the Christian right what they want to hear and some people just go along with it.

I'm not sure why I'm in a minority. I am going to think about this some more and get back with you.


You just answered the question. "I don't support organized religion and I don't go to church."

I'm the same, a Christian who doesn't go to church or support organized religion. There's a huge difference between indoctrination and faith. Huckabee's style of speaking - complete with the drippy-eyes, and lulling tone also puts it seems a number of people into a kind of half-sleep, comfy-feeling. It's one NLP style used frequently (and quite effectively). Notice the effects his voice has on you or others. I can't stand listening to him - and it's so gross to me to watch people be "hypnotized". Anyway, it's the same kind of feeling many people get in their churches - those with the same style of indoctrination. Someone like Duncan Hunter on the other hand will probably appeal more to attendees of the fire-and-brimstone variety of churches.

Basically it's a play on people's emotions and the scripts they've been programmed with, where the reasoning functions get circumvented.

iella
12-10-2007, 02:30 PM
If you really want to see how evangelicals view the world, watch this movie:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/jesus_camp/

Yes, to understand things from a Christian perspective, watch a movie about a small minority of charismatic evangelical Christians. That's a great way to breed tolerance.

Hurricane Bruiser
12-10-2007, 02:43 PM
The Christian community is not well understood by those that are not part of it. People support many different viewpoints on all sorts of policy issues. Abortion and gay marriage probably unifies them but little else. Stress Ron Paul being friendly to Homeschoolers, his long marriage to one wife and other such things.

There are many in the evangelical movement that want to see the government attempt to legislate virtue in some fashion or another and those people will not be attracted much to Ron Paul IMO. The Huckster appeals to those people because he is a nanny state do gooder. It's a tough fight.