U.S. Drone Strikes Have Gone Up 432% Since Trump Took Office

[Origanalist]

http://www.ronpaullibertyreport.com/uploads/2/7/6/1/27619303/trump-copy_6_orig.png

When he was in office, former President Barack Obama earned the ire of anti-war activists for his expansion of Bush’s drone wars. The Nobel Peace Prize-winning head of state ordered ten times more drone strikes than the previous president, and estimates late in Obama’s presidency showed 49 out of 50 victims were civilians. In 2015, it was reported that up to 90% of drone casualties were not the intended targets.

Current President Donald Trump campaigned on a less interventionist foreign policy, claiming to be opposed to nation-building and misguided invasions. But less than two months into his presidency, Trump has expanded the drone strikes that plagued Obama’s “peaceful” presidency.​

According to an analysis from Micah Zenko, an analyst with the Council on Foreign Relations, Trump has markedly increased U.S. drone strikes since taking office. Zenko, who reported earlier this year on the over 26,000 bombs Obama dropped in 2016, summarized the increase:

“During President Obama’s two terms in office, he approved 542 such targeted strikes in 2,920 days—one every 5.4 days. From his inauguration through today, President Trump had approved at least 36 drone strikes or raids in 45 days—one every 1.25 days.”

That’s an increase of 432 percent.

He highlights some of the attacks:

“These include three drone strikes in Yemen on January 20, 21, and 22; the January 28 Navy SEAL raid in Yemen; one reported strike in Pakistan on March 1; more than thirty strikes in Yemen on March 2 and 3; and at least one more on March 6.”

The Trump administration has provided little acknowledgment of the human toll these strikes are taking. As journalist Glenn Greenwald noted in the Intercept, the Trump administration hastily brushed off recent civilian casualties in favor of honoring the life of a single U.S. soldier who died during one of the Yemen raids just days after Trump took office:

“The raid in Yemen that cost Owens his life also killed 30 other people, including ‘many civilians,’ at least nine of whom were children. None of them were mentioned by Trump in last night’s speech, let alone honored with applause and the presence of grieving relatives. That’s because they were Yemenis, not Americans; therefore, their deaths, and lives, must be ignored (the only exception was some fleeting media mention of the 8-year-old daughter of Anwar al-Awlaki, but only because she was a U.S. citizen and because of the irony that Obama killed her 16-year-old American brother with a drone strike).”

Greenwald notes this is typical of not just Trump, but the American war machine in general:

“We fixate on the Americans killed, learning their names and life stories and the plight of their spouses and parents, but steadfastly ignore the innocent people the U.S. government kills, whose numbers are always far greater.”

Though some Trump supporters sang his praises as a peace candidate before he took office, the president’s militarism was apparent on many occasions. He openly advocated increasing the size and scope of the military, a promise he is now moving to keep. And as Zenko highlights, Trump was disingenuous with his rhetoric against interventionism:

“He claimed to have opposed the 2003 Iraq War when he actually backed it, and to have opposed the 2011 Libya intervention when he actually strongly endorsed it, including with U.S. ground troops. Yet, Trump and his loyalists consistently implied that he would be less supportive of costly and bloody foreign wars, especially when compared to President Obama, and by extension, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.”

As Trump continues to dig his heels into decades-old policies he has criticized himself — reportedly mulling over sending ground troops into Syria [Editors note: he already done it] — he is increasingly proving to be yet another establishment warmonger implementing policies that spawn the creation of more terrorists. As Zenko concludes:

“We are now on our third post-9/11 administration pursuing many of the same policies that have failed to meaningfully reduce the number of jihadist extremist fighters, or their attractiveness among potential recruits or self-directed terrorists. The Global War on Terrorism remains broadly unquestioned within Washington, no matter who is in the White House.”
This article was originally published at The AntiMedia.

http://www.ronpaullibertyreport.com/archives/us-drone-strikes-have-gone-up-432-since-trump-took-office

[asurfaholic]

Anyone who thinks trump is antiestablishment is looney and has no grip on reality.

[CaptUSA]

Anyone who thinks trump is antiestablishment is looney and has no grip on reality.

Don't worry...


Don't worry, surely the trumpettes will be along soon enough, to do one or more of the following:
A) Argue about the meaning of words like "cut", "spending", "military", "entitlement", "increase", and "budget"
B) Tell us that their authoritarian idol really didn't mean what he said
C) Tell us that this is a brilliant move in a game of 3-D chess that only trumpettes are capable of understanding
D) Tell us that it's ok because obomba did it first
E) Tell us that it's ok because it would have been horrible if clinton had done the very same thing
F) Tell us that this is what Liberty and Freedom really mean
G) Call CPUd names

[TheCount]

Well it's not like he's the commander in chief or something.

[TheTexan]

I bet the terrorists are 432% more scared also.




I bet they're terrified.

[Origanalist]

Don't worry...


https://www.vevo.com/watch/bobby-mcferrin/dont-worry-be-happy/USBN28800754

[Root]

MAGA

[dannno]

Ron Paul is right, the best solution is to just leave and come home.

That said, taking an average of Obama's 8 years and comparing it to the first few months of Trump's Presidency isn't entirely fair, either. Also, Obama was targeting foreign nations with his military interventions. Hopefully we won't see that happen with Trump.

http://dronecenter.bard.edu/files/2015/04/drone-strikes-in-pakistan-pitch-interactive.png

[undergroundrr]

We should wait until trump actually does something before we pass judgement. So far it's just been innocent children he's killed, he hasn't even bombed a foreign government yet. It's really unfair to judge. See dannno's reasoned post above. So far so good for MAGA.

[phill4paul]

Ron Paul is right, the best solution is to just leave and come home.

That said,


Don't worry, surely the trumpettes will be along soon enough, to do one or more of the following:
A) Argue about the meaning of words like "cut", "spending", "military", "entitlement", "increase", and "budget"
B) Tell us that their authoritarian idol really didn't mean what he said
C) Tell us that this is a brilliant move in a game of 3-D chess that only trumpettes are capable of understanding
D) Tell us that it's ok because obomba did it first
E) Tell us that it's ok because it would have been horrible if clinton had done the very same thing
F) Tell us that this is what Liberty and Freedom really mean
G) Call CPUd names

blargh,blargh,blargh.

[CaptUSA]

Hopefully we won't see that happen with Trump.

You certainly are hanging on to an awful lot of "hope". Pretty much every realm of his Presidency... I wonder how long you'll continue to do that? How long til that spell is broken?

[dannno]

We should wait until trump actually does something before we pass judgement. So far it's just been innocent children he's killed, he hasn't even bombed a foreign government yet. It's really unfair to judge. See dannno's reasoned post above. So far so good for MAGA.

The only innocent casualties I've heard so far was from the attack planned by the Obama admin.

My hope is that the innocent casualties will be much lower with Trump - but I am pretty confident that we will see a strong front against ISIS like he campaigned on for the first part of the Presidency, and then I would think they would taper off after that.

The other option was to keep funding and growing ISIS while attacking sovereign nations, while pretending we are fighting Islamic Extremists. That is a much worse option.

[dannno]

You certainly are hanging on to an awful lot of "hope". Pretty much every realm of his Presidency... I wonder how long you'll continue to do that? How long til that spell is broken?

I'm not sure what you're talking about. This was something he campaigned on. Are you surprised? I totally expected to see something like this happen early on in the Presidency, but again, it is a far better option than kicking the can down the line by funding more extremism and making things worse by attacking sovereign nations.

[asurfaholic]

The only innocent casualties I've heard so far was from the attack planned by the Obama admin.

My hope is that the innocent casualties will be much lower with Trump - but I am pretty confident that we will see a strong front against ISIS like he campaigned on for the first part of the Presidency, and then I would think they would taper off after that.

The other option was to keep funding and growing ISIS while attacking sovereign nations, while pretending we are fighting Islamic Extremists. That is a much worse option.

So this massive buildup of military that he also campaigned on and even since has spoke of.....

Is not for bombing this shit out of countries we are not at war with?

Why is it so unreasonable to say to your great leader " No bombing foreign countries without a congressional declaration of war!"

[enhanced_deficit]

Early signs are mixed so far about Trump's foreign policy, giving ok to Obama planned raid in Yemen was a big blunder. If Trump becomes another DGP , he will deserve to be criticized.

That said, RP Liberty report perhaps should be bit more judicious in reproducing headlines from another site that relies on CFR analysts and their data. This CFR analyst who wanted Obama to carry on military intervention in Syria is using bogus data when he claims that only 300 or 4-5% or so civilians were killed by DGP's drone attacks. Various independent reports had found upto 90% killed were unintended victims/civilians.

In the bigger scheme, we'll have to wait and see track record. This headline is misleading.



Related

http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/images/2015/11/blogs/graphic-detail/20151121_woc539.png


http://radio.foxnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/obama-predator-drone.jpg


The 12-Year War: 73% of U.S. Casualties in Afghanistan Occured on Obama's Watch (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?427493-The-12-Year-War-73-of-U-S-Casualties-in-Afghanistan-on-Obama-s-Watch&p=5221296#post5221296)

Iraq/Afghanistan wars disabled 624,000 US troops , Divorces up 42%, Foreclosures up 217% (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?424803-Iraq-Afghanistan-wars-disabled-624-000-US-troops-Divorces-up-42-Foreclosures-up-217&)

VA Stops Releasing Data On Injured Vets As Total Reaches Grim Milestone (http://www.ibtimes.com/va-stops-rele...lusive-1449584)
November 01 2013
The United States has likely reached a grim but historic milestone in the war on terror: 1 million veterans injured from the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. But you haven't heard this reported anywhere else. Why? Because the government is no longer sharing this information with the public.

While You Were Debating Obama’s ‘Selfie,’ U.S. Drones Killed 13+ Yemen Wedding Guests (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?436307-While-You-Were-Debating-Obama%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98Selfie-%E2%80%99-U-S-Drones-Killed-13-Yemen-Wedding-Guests&)
http://media2.wptv.com//photo/2013/12/10/WPTV_Obama_Selfie_20131210122944_320_240.JPG

[CaptUSA]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. This was something he campaigned on. Are you surprised? I totally expected to see something like this happen early on in the Presidency, but again, it is a far better option than kicking the can down the line by funding more extremism and making things worse by attacking sovereign nations.

Wait a minute... what is Yemen again? :confused:

[undergroundrr]

we'll have to wait and see track record.

http://www.burntorangereport.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/clayton-williams.jpg

[robert68]

US military attacks on other countries, often dozens, everyday:

http://www.centcom.mil/MEDIA/PRESS-RELEASES/

[chudrockz]

Well it's not like he's the commander in chief or something.

We are NOT at war, so that is correct. He is NOT the commander in chief.

You've been here for THREE YEARS? :rolleyes:

[undergroundrr]

We are NOT at war, so that is correct. He is NOT the commander in chief.

You've been here for THREE YEARS? :rolleyes:

Your sarcasm meter is on the fritz.

[chudrockz]

Your sarcasm meter is on the fritz.

Is it? Sorry about that. I just woke up and was distracted by honey comb. :)

[TheCount]

We are NOT at war, so that is correct. He is NOT the commander in chief.

You've been here for THREE YEARS? :rolleyes:The constitution doesn't say that.

[dannno]

Wait a minute... what is Yemen again? :confused:

A country that is being over run by Islamic Extremists who we radicalized, armed and funded? Although I would still choose Ron Paul's path of ditching out, sometimes I also think it might be the least we could do.

[dannno]

So this massive buildup of military that he also campaigned on and even since has spoke of.....

Is not for bombing this shit out of countries we are not at war with?

Why is it so unreasonable to say to your great leader " No bombing foreign countries without a congressional declaration of war!"

Hopefully the military build up is for defense and will never be utilized, and we will just be using a limited arsenal to attack ISIS and our military interventions will taper off over time.

Like I said, we radicalized, armed and funded ISIS, and they are a danger to peaceful people in the Middle East. One perspective is that it is the least we could do for them since we created the monster... Now, Obama talked a great game about defeating ISIS but the policies implemented just helped them to grow. But I knew that was going to happen, I knew that Obama was a puppet of the establishment and what their game is.

We don't know what Trump's game is yet, but if he truly does want what is best for the US, then after he helps clean up the mess we made over there we will have very limited military interventions.

Of course I would like us to go back to a time where congress declared war, but this could be a good transition phase into that.

[Jamesiv1]

http://www.burntorangereport.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/clayton-williams.jpg
LOL

I remember this. He's a West Texas boy, and this was his reply to a question about rape.

His campaign for governor of Texas ended at that precise moment lol

[Origanalist]

Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully, hopefully, life is but a dream.

[The Northbreather]

According to an analysis from Micah Zenko, an analyst with the Council on Foreign Relations

aka the mouthpiece of the people who actually run the world..

[undergroundrr]

https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2017/03/10/bomb-the-sht-out-of-them-trump-drones-yemen-more-in-one-week-than-obama-in-a-year/



‘Bomb the Sh*t Out of Them!’ – Trump Drones Yemen More in One Week Than Obama in a Year
Daniel McAdams Posted on March 10, 2017

Undeterred by the disastrous commando raid on Yemen in the first days of his Administration, where plenty of civilians were killed but the target got away, President Donald Trump has escalated US military involvement in the tragic Yemen conflict to an unprecedented level. In fact as Foreign Policy reports, the US President has bombed Yemen more in the past week than President Obama (no peacenik) has bombed in a year.

But although the US escalation in Yemen is sold back home as another aggressive front in the war against al-Qaeda, in fact US operations in Yemen are actually helping al-Qaeda as well as its chief sponsor, Saudi Arabia.

The problem is that because his advisors are increasingly drawn from the neocon camp, the advice he is given is filtered through the “noble lie” that the neocons view as the central tenet of their faith. Thus even though the main enemies of al-Qaeda in Yemen are the Houthis, because Trump has been sold the neocon lie that the Houthis are Iranian proxies Trump is droning Yemen back to the stone age to the advantage of al-Qaeda and Saudi Arabia, who are on the same side.

While it is arguable that the President has authority under the authorization for the use of military force against those attacked us on 9/11 to attack al-Qaeda in Yemen, very few would argue that such authorization extends to actually helping al-Qaeda in Yemen.

Meanwhile, US drone attacks are killing civilians in Yemen and contributing to the genocide of the Yemeni people whose only crime is to have rejected a president who ran unopposed – a US-backed “Arab Spring” candidate – and who immediately approved US drone strikes on his own country.

The Trump State Department is going all in. A sale of anti-Houthi weapons to Saudi Arabia that even the Obama administration rejected was hastily approved by the new Administration and soon will be deployed in Saudi Arabia’s war of aggression against its neighbor.

The Trump Administration is doubling down on all of President Obama’s mistakes. Siding with al-Qaeda in Yemen on the false notion that it is fighting a proxy war against Iran.

The neocons are running circles around the new US President. Deal-maker? On foreign affairs, he’s more like a vulnerable rube walking into a used car lot populated by shark car salesmen.

By the way, the Pentagon just finished investigating the Pentagon over the disastrous Yemen raid – where scores of civilians were gunned down by the US military in cold blood but they missed the claimed target. It may shock you, but the Pentagon found that the Pentagon had done nothing wrong. Investigation complete!

[Brian4Liberty]

A country that is being over run by Islamic Extremists who we radicalized, armed and funded? Although I would still choose Ron Paul's path of ditching out, sometimes I also think it might be the least we could do.

Where's the declaration of war?

[phill4paul]

https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2017/03/10/bomb-the-sht-out-of-them-trump-drones-yemen-more-in-one-week-than-obama-in-a-year/

Hopefully Trump will read this article.

[phill4paul]

Where's the declaration of war?

Hopefully we can go back to declared wars after Trump wins the battle with ISIS.

[Ender]

A country that is being over run by Islamic Extremists who we radicalized, armed and funded? Although I would still choose Ron Paul's path of ditching out, sometimes I also think it might be the least we could do.

So, how about the latest strikes in Syria and the trail of tears for oil? Several innocents have been reported killed.

[Ender]

Where's the declaration of war?

Declaration of war? We don' need no stinkin' declaration of war. :rolleyes:

[phill4paul]

A country that is being over run by Islamic Extremists who we radicalized, armed and funded? Although I would still choose Ron Paul's path of ditching out, sometimes I also think it might be the least we could do.

We broke it now we gotta fix it? :rolleyes:

[dannno]

We broke it now we gotta fix it? :rolleyes:

Yes, exactly. You break it, you buy it, you got the concept.

I don't know if it is the moral thing to do, but it could be, possibly, if executed properly and doesn't turn into an endless boondoggle. That's why Ron Paul's option is better.

But the Trump option is literally a billion times better than the Hillary option, and since there is no strong liberty movement or liberty candidates right now let's not fuck that up by getting Pence or some socialist or establishment stooge back in the helms.

Don't join the progressives, the enemy of your enemy is not your friend.

[Ender]

Yes, exactly. You break it, you buy it, you got the concept.

I don't know if it is the moral thing to do, but it could be, possibly, if executed properly and doesn't turn into an endless boondoggle. That's why Ron Paul's option is better.

But the Trump option is literally a billion times better than the Hillary option, and since there is no strong liberty movement or liberty candidates right now let's not $#@! that up by getting Pence or some socialist or establishment stooge back in the helms.

Don't join the progressives, the enemy of your enemy is not your friend.

Please name the differences.

[William Tell]

Yes, exactly. You break it, you buy it, you got the concept. So break the entire world and get world domination, how is that not globalism?



But the Trump option is literally a billion times better than the Hillary option, and since there is no strong liberty movement or liberty candidates right now let's not $#@! that up by getting Pence or some socialist or establishment stooge back in the helms.

Don't join the progressives, the enemy of your enemy is not your friend. So with Trump they are up 432%, you are saying they would be up a billion times that under Hillary?

[nikcers]

I don't know if there is anything worth adding to this thread that hasn't already been said, so I'll let Ron Paul in my signature do the talking.

[William Tell]

https://68.media.tumblr.com/90350793754c97ec4cb0cdb454666165/tumblr_o46zf06frZ1qd3lbbo1_500.jpg

[Brian4Liberty]

Hopefully we can go back to declared wars after Trump wins the battle with ISIS.

Ah yes. You are correct sir. Trump did declare war on ISIS already during the election.


Declaration of war? We don' need no stinkin' declaration of war. :rolleyes:

Congress? We don' need no stinkin' Congress. ;)

[dannno]

Please name the differences.

The establishment (Obama/Hillary/MIC) radicalized, funded and armed ISIS. They told the American people they were over there fighting ISIS. Even one of my progressive friends who was anti-war during Bush was rooting for us to go over and destroy ISIS. For years, I tried to explain to my friend that they weren't going to fight ISIS, they were just saying that.. I knew that because they were too busy radicalizing, arming and funding ISIS and using them to topple leadership of sovereign nations. Every time I would explain that, he would go off about how horrible ISIS is... we must destroy them.. But why would you trust the people who created and armed ISIS to destroy them? I certainly didn't.

Trump wants to REVERSE all of that. So he is literally going to do the exact opposite. The evil force WE created over there (ISIS) will no longer be funded or armed, and we will send a military force to go over there and clear them out. We funded them, we gave them weapons, in a sense it could be argued that it is OUR military force, that we created, that we can't control, and so it is our moral responsibility to destroy it.

Trump does not plan to attack sovereign nations, just the patches of ISIS that we created and funded.

What part of this is so difficult to understand? This is like the fifth time in this thread I've tried to explain it, I have been talking about how superior Trump's foreign policy is to Hillary's for months. I mean, ya, it might only be like a 6 or 7 out of 10, where Rand is a 9 out of 10 and Ron is a 10 out of 10 - but Hillary is a 1 out of 10. I'll take the 6 or 7 over the 1, thanks.

[dannno]

So break the entire world and get world domination, how is that not globalism?

What? I just said we created ISIS, what does getting rid of ISIS have to do with world domination?



So with Trump they are up 432%, you are saying they would be up a billion times that under Hillary?

Now you are quoting CFR propaganda?

[phill4paul]

Yes, exactly. You break it, you buy it, you got the concept.

I don't know if it is the moral thing to do, but it could be, possibly, if executed properly and doesn't turn into an endless boondoggle. That's why Ron Paul's option is better.

But the Trump option is literally a billion times better than the Hillary option, and since there is no strong liberty movement or liberty candidates right now let's not fuck that up by getting Pence or some socialist or establishment stooge back in the helms.

Don't join the progressives, the enemy of your enemy is not your friend.

Broken windows and bombed hospitals. Fallacy. You've been here long enough to know that.

Fuck Hillary. Fuck Trump. Neither option shares a shred of difference overall. Trump nominated Pence. Trump voters voted for the ticket. That's not on me. That is on them.

I'm not a progressive. My enemies are my enemies. Period.

[phill4paul]

The establishment (Obama/Hillary/MIC) radicalized, funded and armed ISIS. They told the American people they were over there fighting ISIS. Even one of my progressive friends who was anti-war during Bush was rooting for us to go over and destroy ISIS. For years, I tried to explain to my friend that they weren't going to fight ISIS, they were just saying that.. I knew that because they were too busy radicalizing, arming and funding ISIS and using them to topple leadership of sovereign nations. Every time I would explain that, he would go off about how horrible ISIS is... we must destroy them.. But why would you trust the people who created and armed ISIS to destroy them? I certainly didn't.

Trump wants to REVERSE all of that. So he is literally going to do the exact opposite. The evil force WE created over there (ISIS) will no longer be funded or armed, and we will send a military force to go over there and clear them out. We funded them, we gave them weapons, in a sense it could be argued that it is OUR military force, that we created, that we can't control, and so it is our moral responsibility to destroy it.

Trump does not plan to attack sovereign nations, just the patches of ISIS that we created and funded.

What part of this is so difficult to understand? This is like the fifth time in this thread I've tried to explain it, I have been talking about how superior Trump's foreign policy is to Hillary's for months. I mean, ya, it might only be like a 6 or 7 out of 10, where Rand is a 9 out of 10 and Ron is a 10 out of 10 - but Hillary is a 1 out of 10. I'll take the 6 or 7 over the 1, thanks.

Just stop funding. Just stop arming. Let the people of the nations they traffic in handle the situation. Bring the troops home.

What part of that is so difficult to understand?

Again with the Hillary comparisons. Hillary is not POTUS. By now I would think you would realize that.

[William Tell]

What? I just said we created ISIS, what does getting rid of ISIS have to do with world domination? You said if you break it you buy it, so naturally just keep screwing up with terrible foreign policy and buy the world the same as previous administrations. Meet the new boss same as the old boss.



Now you are quoting CFR propaganda? If 432% is CFR propaganda then tell me what the real percentage is.

[CPUd]

Hopefully Trump will read this article.

Maybe if it can be condensed down to a couple tweets, or if Joe can read it to him on the air.

[CPUd]

guyz just be glad we didn't fuck up the chances for a liberty candidate by electing an establishment stooge

http://i.imgur.com/JycixZr.jpg

[Ender]

The establishment (Obama/Hillary/MIC) radicalized, funded and armed ISIS. They told the American people they were over there fighting ISIS. Even one of my progressive friends who was anti-war during Bush was rooting for us to go over and destroy ISIS. For years, I tried to explain to my friend that they weren't going to fight ISIS, they were just saying that.. I knew that because they were too busy radicalizing, arming and funding ISIS and using them to topple leadership of sovereign nations. Every time I would explain that, he would go off about how horrible ISIS is... we must destroy them.. But why would you trust the people who created and armed ISIS to destroy them? I certainly didn't.

Trump wants to REVERSE all of that. So he is literally going to do the exact opposite. The evil force WE created over there (ISIS) will no longer be funded or armed, and we will send a military force to go over there and clear them out. We funded them, we gave them weapons, in a sense it could be argued that it is OUR military force, that we created, that we can't control, and so it is our moral responsibility to destroy it.

Trump does not plan to attack sovereign nations, just the patches of ISIS that we created and funded.

What part of this is so difficult to understand? This is like the fifth time in this thread I've tried to explain it, I have been talking about how superior Trump's foreign policy is to Hillary's for months. I mean, ya, it might only be like a 6 or 7 out of 10, where Rand is a 9 out of 10 and Ron is a 10 out of 10 - but Hillary is a 1 out of 10. I'll take the 6 or 7 over the 1, thanks.

The ISIS is an off-shoot of Al Qaeda, which the US created to fight the Russians. Obama didn't create it; it's been around since before I was born.

We are currently backing 2 different rebel forces fighting each other in Syria, PLUS ISIS.

Trump is there for the MIC and the oil- he is NOT going to de-escalate.

[Ender]

You said if you break it you buy it, so naturally just keep screwing up with terrible foreign policy and buy the world the same as previous administrations. Meet the new boss same as the old boss.


If 432% is CFR propaganda then tell me what the real percentage is.

I'd +rep ya if I could.

[H. E. Panqui]

:rolleyes:

...yeah, we really should let the republicrats 'fix what they've broken'...they have such a sterling record of fixing things only a fool wouldn't want them to continue to fix things...

...ugh...republicrats...

[phill4paul]

I'd +rep ya if I could.

Got it covered. My guess is that dannno will not be able to wrap his head around that concept.

[Ender]

Got it covered. My guess is that dannno will not be able to wrap his head around that concept.

Thanks- I was also gonna rep you, but am currently out of reps for you, as well. ;)

[dannno]

The ISIS is an off-shoot of Al Qaeda, which the US created to fight the Russians. Obama didn't create it; it's been around since before I was born.

We are currently backing 2 different rebel forces fighting each other in Syria, PLUS ISIS.

Trump is there for the MIC and the oil- he is NOT going to de-escalate.

Your first statement simply bolsters my argument.

I have seen no evidence backing your second statement, but you are trying to claim that Trump is still funding ISIS and fighting the Assad regime?? Even if true, I'm pretty sure any remnants of that operation will be gone very soon.

Your third statement is an opinion that has no basis in fact.

[dannno]

Just stop funding. Just stop arming. Let the people of the nations they traffic in handle the situation. Bring the troops home.

What part of that is so difficult to understand?

It's not difficult to understand, for the 8th time in this thread THAT IS PRECISELY THE POLICY I WOULD SUPPORT first and foremost.

If ISIS was some homegrown creation, I would say ya let's totally get out of there, we have no moral reason to stay. But since we funded and created them, there is a moral reason for us to help them out. Not sure if it will help, but it could.



Again with the Hillary comparisons. Hillary is not POTUS. By now I would think you would realize that.

Pence = Hillary

As Rand and even Ron Paul have said on occasion, Trump has quite a few issues where he is vastly superior to Hillary.

You join up with the progressives and start getting all alarmist about Trump, we get Pence.

[William Tell]

Pence = Hillary

As Rand and even Ron Paul have said on occasion, Trump has quite a few issues where he is vastly superior to Hillary.

You join up with the progressives and start getting all alarmist about Trump, we get Pence.

Ron Paul etc must have missed the memo when they were criticizing George W Bush, who knew they were supporting Cheney?

[dannno]

Ron Paul etc must have missed the memo when they were criticizing George W Bush, who knew they were supporting Cheney?

Bush was Cheney's/CFR's puppet.

Pence is Trump's biatch, for now.

Totally different dynamic.

[dannno]

If 432% is CFR propaganda then tell me what the real percentage is.

The point is that the CFR is actively putting this information out to try and destroy Trump, and you are listening to them and eating it up. Stahp it.

And yes, some of the information from that article turned out to be inaccurate. And yes it is unfair to compare 2 months of Trump to an average of 8 years of Obama... especially the first two months when we knew Trump was going to go after ISIS.

If we are still attacking ISIS in a year from now in any sort of regular capacity, I will likely be pretty disappointed.

[phill4paul]

It's not difficult to understand, for the 8th time in this thread THAT IS PRECISELY THE POLICY I WOULD SUPPORT first and foremost.

If ISIS was some homegrown creation, I would say ya let's totally get out of there, we have no moral reason to stay. But since we funded and created them, there is a moral reason for us to help them out. Not sure if it will help, but it could.

Your cognitive dissonance is causing you to twist every direction all at once.

Whereas, that is the only policy I would support.

For you, Trumps policy is "better than Hillary." So, you support Trump. I do not. So, knowing full well the broken window fallacy you are forced to rationalize a reason to support Trump. I do not.

Such a sad little liberty supporter you have become since the days of the Ron Paul Revolution.

[phill4paul]

The point is that the CFR is actively putting this information out to try and destroy Trump, and you are listening to them and eating it up. Stahp it.

And yes, some of the information from that article turned out to be inaccurate. And yes it is unfair to compare 2 months of Trump to an average of 8 years of Obama... especially the first two months when we knew Trump was going to go after ISIS.

If we are still attacking ISIS in a year from now, I will likely be pretty disappointed.

Ahh, that would be heartbreaking for you to feel disappointment. I'm sure many families of the innocent people continuing to be killed would feel just as badly as you. Fucking war pigs gonna war.

[H. E. Panqui]

If we are still attacking ISIS in a year from now, I will likely be pretty disappointed.

:cool:

...i have a strong hunch 'we' will still be attacking...and you will still be apologizing... ;)

[dannno]

Your cognitive dissonance is causing you to twist every direction all at once.

Whereas, that is the only policy I would support.

For you, Trumps policy is "better than Hillary." So, you support Trump. I do not. So, knowing full well the broken window fallacy you are forced to rationalize a reason to support Trump. I do not.

Such a sad little liberty supporter you have become since the days of the Ron Paul Revolution.

I said I preferred Trump, I didn't vote for him or donate to his campaign.

Trump is a preferable choice to the establishment, I don't see why that is such a bad position to take.

Some people here are minarchists. Wouldn't they prefer a smaller government to a much larger totalitarian government?

We have to be realistic here. And we should be happy when we are going in the right direction.

[dannno]

Ahh, that would be heartbreaking for you to feel disappointment. I'm sure many families of the innocent people continuing to be killed would feel just as badly as you. Fucking war pigs gonna war.

Ya I'm glad we don't have a war pig for President, for once. He's more like a war goat.

[JK/SEA]

Anyone who thinks trump is antiestablishment is looney and has no grip on reality.

this seems to be an important issue to you.


also, the 'anti-establishment ' mantra is subjective.


i get the gut feeling this article is 'fake news' anyway, so, arguing is pointless. Where was CodePink' during obamas reign?

''When he was in office, former President Barack Obama earned the ire of anti-war activists for his expansion of Bush’s drone wars. ''

[Feeding the Abscess]

Ron Paul is right, the best solution is to just leave and come home.

That said, taking an average of Obama's 8 years and comparing it to the first few months of Trump's Presidency isn't entirely fair, either.

Fine, I can roll with that.


Also, Obama was targeting foreign nations with his military interventions. Hopefully we won't see that happen with Trump.

http://dronecenter.bard.edu/files/2015/04/drone-strikes-in-pakistan-pitch-interactive.png

Apparently, you don't agree with your own proposal. From the previous sentence.

[dannno]

Fine, I can roll with that.



Apparently, you don't agree with your own proposal. From the previous sentence.

If there are three proposals, one of them is GREAT, the other is kinda ok an the last one is completely horrible, obviously my preference would be for the proposal that is great. But if that is not an option, I much prefer the proposal that is kinda ok over the one that is completely horrible.

[dannno]

If we are still attacking ISIS in a year from now, I will likely be pretty disappointed.

:cool:

...i have a strong hunch 'we' will still be attacking...and you will still be apologizing... ;)

My guess is Trump's ego is too big to be fighting them for that long. It's fucking ISIS. That's like a kid in 8th grade taking 3 hours to beat up a kid in 3rd grade.

Trump will probably fight them for a while, severely weaken them, declare victory and bring the troops home within 6-12 months.

[Feeding the Abscess]

If there are three proposals, one of them is GREAT, the other is kinda ok an the last one is completely horrible, obviously my preference would be for the proposal that is great. But if that is not an option, I much prefer the proposal that is kinda ok over the one that is completely horrible.

This is for the onlookers:

In your first statement that I quoted, you rebuffed the notion that Trump's first month(s) should be compared to the entirety of Obama's presidency.

In the next statement that I quoted, which was also the very next sentence in your original post, you compared the entirety of Obama's presidency to Trump's first month(s).

[dannno]

This is for the onlookers:

In your first statement that I quoted, you rebuffed the notion that Trump's first month(s) should be compared to the entirety of Obama's presidency.

In the next statement that I quoted, which was also the very next sentence in your original post, you compared the entirety of Obama's presidency to Trump's first month(s).

Ya but I could have compared it to the first few months of Obama's Presidency and come up with the same results. Obama ended up escalating our foreign interventions, he had no qualms going into Libya, Afghanistan and Syria in order to attempt regime installation, nation building and such. He kept us in Iraq even though he promised not to.

Trump campaigned against all of that. Will he follow through? I dunno, but you are the one making assumptions that he isn't going to follow through. Obama was a puppet, of course he wasn't going to follow through. If Trump was a puppet, then I doubt the establishment would be constantly trying to attack him like they have been. So far he has followed through on a lot of good things, he is trying to help get Rand's healthcare bill through, it's pretty much going swimmingly.

[Ender]

Your first statement simply bolsters my argument.

I have seen no evidence backing your second statement, but you are trying to claim that Trump is still funding ISIS and fighting the Assad regime?? Even if true, I'm pretty sure any remnants of that operation will be gone very soon.

Your third statement is an opinion that has no basis in fact.

DUDE.

I have posted this link at least 5 times in the past 2 days.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?508448-Race-For-Raqqa-Major-US-Escalation-In-Syria

Go and listen to what Ron Paul says which absolutely validates what I have said.

[William Tell]

The point is that the CFR is actively putting this information out to try and destroy Trump, and you are listening to them and eating it up. Stahp it. Dude, I'm not going to call Trump a peace loving hippie just because of what the CFR says, a spade's a spade.


And yes, some of the information from that article turned out to be inaccurate. And yes it is unfair to compare 2 months of Trump to an average of 8 years of Obama... especially the first two months when we knew Trump was going to go after ISIS. So its unfair to compare Trump's wars to Obama because we knew Trump would be more hawkish than Obama?:confused:


If we are still attacking ISIS in a year from now in any sort of regular capacity, I will likely be pretty disappointed.
I'm pretty disappointed that we are still losing troops and little American girls are losing their lives, I hope such disappointing things stop happening, I really do.

[William Tell]

We have to be realistic here. And we should be happy when we are going in the right direction.

You say we are going in the right direction in a thread about how we are going in the wrong direction with statistics to back it up. Rather than showing us how those exact statistics are CFR created BS as you claim and showing us real statistics, you say we should shut up if we don't want Pence to be president.

[nikcers]

You say we are going in the right direction in a thread about how we are going in the wrong direction with statistics to back it up. Rather than showing us how those exact statistics are CFR created BS as you claim and showing us real statistics, you say we should shut up if we don't want Pence to be president. :confused: Sometimes I think some of these people want more Drone strikes, more blowback, more intervention. It's not like this is a question of certainty at this point, we aren't arguing hypotheticals here, Trump has officially stolen the name Drone Gangster Puppet.