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William Tell
03-08-2017, 02:24 PM
Rand tweeted this article. :D



Squishy Legislation Won’t Fool Voters: Ryancare Will Loom Over Trump 2020 Congress is doing the president no favors By Brian Darling (http://observer.com/author/brian-darling/) • 03/08/17 10:00am

Republicans are engaging in a politically dangerous game by partially repealing Obamacare while leaving its core elements intact. President Donald Trump might have a more difficult time winning re-election in 2020 because Republicans are breaking their solemn campaign promise to repeal Obamacare fully.

I am no expert in health care, but I do remember that Republicans promised repeatedly that they were going to fully repeal Obamacare.

In 2015, the budget produced by House Republicans explicitly promised that it “repeals Obamacare in full—including all of its taxes, regulations and mandates.” On May 15, 2015, Senate Republicans on the Budget Committee made the same promise whey they pledged that the Senate budget “provides for repeal of Obamacare to start over with patient-centered reforms.” In 2017, these same “leaders” are running away from those promises.

Americans voted for Republicans enough for them to control both chambers of Congress, yet these same Republicans are advocating for a Trojan Horse piece of legislation that purports to be a “repeal and replace” of Obamacare when it is really a “partial repeal and repair” of Obama’s signature law.

One can call it Ryancare, Obamcare-lite, or Obamacare 2.0, but it isn’t a full repeal of Obamacare, because it repairs more than it repeals. The American people will not be fooled by this squishy legislation that keeps the core elements of the misnamed “Affordable Care Act.”

Somewhere, Obama is on a beach sipping a margarita and saying, “I told you so.”

Ryancare sets up a number of expiring provisions that will remove healthcare benefits from millions of Americans in the months leading up to Trump’s 2020 bid for a second term.

Chris Jacobs of the Texas Public Policy Foundation writes that the plan also falls short of fundamentally removing federal control over supply and demand of healthcare. According to Jacobs:

This plan fails to repeal most of the costly mandates and insurance regulations driving up premiums and deductibles.

This plan replaces Obamacare’s subsidy scheme with a new costly federal entitlement in the form of a refundable tax credit.

This plan leaves significant portions of the flawed and costly Medicaid expansion intact by delaying the freeze on Medicaid enrollment, maintaining the expansion of the program to the able-bodied, and providing a pathway for non-expansion states to accept enhanced federal dollars. http://observer.com/2017/03/ryancare-obamacare-republican-healthcare-proposal/

Zippyjuan
03-08-2017, 02:32 PM
Trump consistently said "repeal and replace"- not "repeal and replace with nothing". He actually promised "insurance for everybody." "Everybody's gotta be covered." Then he realized "how complicated it can be". "They can have their doctors, they can have their plans". "Who is going to pay for that?" "The government is going to pay for it." "We don't have any idea yet what it will cost". "Cutting taxes is tiny little ant compared to what we are talking about with Obamacare" (meaning costs will be yoooge)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jwKPgNJGyk


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_8UFNQqk7k

CPUd
03-08-2017, 02:34 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-VTbt-i_b4

Jamesiv1
03-08-2017, 02:39 PM
Don't worry about it. The Greatness is Just Beginning®

Dr.3D
03-08-2017, 02:42 PM
So when is Trump going to figure out that government should have no place in the insurance business?

TheCount
03-08-2017, 02:43 PM
Is there anything that Trump could do that would cause his base to abandon him? I'm not sure.

TheCount
03-08-2017, 02:43 PM
So when is Trump going to figure out that government should have no place in the insurance business?Never.

specsaregood
03-08-2017, 02:47 PM
So when is Trump going to figure out that government should have no place in the insurance business?

I'm fairly certain that trump's businesses are taking advantage of at least 1 govt insurance program, so probably never, he's a corporatist and loves govt being involved.

Zippyjuan
03-08-2017, 02:55 PM
Clues to what is going on: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/01/18/510431528/6-senators-assessing-trump-s-hhs-nominee-own-health-care-stocks-too


6 Senators Assessing Trump's HHS Nominee Own Health Care Stocks, Too


President-elect Donald Trump's pick to run the Department of Health and Human Services is taking heat for his controversial stock holdings in companies affected by laws he has worked on and voted for. But federal records show several senators who will take part in confirmation hearings for Rep. Tom Price, a Georgia Republican, have substantial health-related holdings as well.

At least six members of the two Senate committees tasked with questioning or confirming Price, who was trained as an orthopedic surgeon, hold shares in health care companies. A Kaiser Health News analysis finds that the investments, which include shares in companies such as Merck, Medtronic and Gilead Sciences, have been held by Sens. Thomas Carper, D-Del., Bill Cassidy, R-La., Susan Collins, R-Maine, Tim Kaine, D-Va., Mark Warner, D-Va., and Sheldon Whitehouse, D-R.I.

"This conflict of interest problem is one that members [of Congress] have danced around over a period of years much too lightly," said former Rep. Lee Hamilton, a Democrat, who founded the Indiana University Center on Representative Government after spending more than 30 years in Congress. "And I think it needs to be corrected in order to have confidence in the institution."

KHN examined the most recent annual financial disclosures for the 40 senators who sit on either the Finance Committee; the Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions; or both. The HELP Committee's courtesy hearing with Price is Wednesday, and the Finance Committee's more pivotal vote has been scheduled for Jan. 24.

About half the senators reported holding stocks in their households, but only six disclosed owning stocks in health and biomedical firms.

Of the six, Whitehouse and his family have the most health stocks, split among various IRAs, education savings accounts and other accounts and belonging to Whitehouse, his wife and his children. In all, they disclosed between $402,000 and $1.3 million in health-related holdings in 2015. The disclosures don't give exact numbers and instead include ranges.

Price has been criticized following a Wall Street Journal investigation that found he traded more than $300,000 in health-related stocks while serving on a health subcommittee of the House Committee on Ways and Means. Democrats have called for investigations into whether Price made trades based on insider knowledge.

Earlier this month, Trump transition spokesman Phillip Blando blasted Democrats' hypocrisy and singled out Carper, Warner and Whitehouse for owning health stocks, calling for similar questions to be asked about their trades and holdings. He declined last week to comment further on the senators' stock holdings. Price has told ethics officials he would divest his stock in dozens of publicly traded companies.

Owning the stocks is legal, but not everyone agrees on whether it's fair, said Tim LaPira, a political science professor at James Madison University, adding that the Senate is on average wealthier than the House. "Of course they can invest their money as they please," he said.

The major concern, political analysts said, is that members of Congress will help pass laws to benefit companies in which they own stock. According to the Senate ethics rules, "A Member, officer, or employee may not use his or her official position for personal gain."

Although insider trading has been illegal for members of Congress since 2012, it's nearly impossible to prove, LaPira said.

Research studies have shown that members of Congress tend to make higher returns on the stock market than the general public. "We found that in general, they earn about 12 percent a year more than the average bear," said Alan Ziobrowski, a retired Georgia State University real estate professor who published a 2004 study of Senate stock performance from 1993 through 1998. He did a similar study of House stock performance in 2011.

He said members of Congress could have access to information that can aid in stock picking, including earlier notice that laws are about to change or additional information gathered from industry lobbyists. Ziobrowski said a follow-up study by another researcher in 2013 found that members of Congress "quit fooling around on the stock market" after his study of the Senate was released, but that no one has repeated his analysis since.

Collins, Kaine and Whitehouse serve on the HELP Committee, whose jurisdiction includes measures pertaining to health, "biomedical research and development." Carper and Warner are on the Finance Committee, which deals generally with money and taxes. But it also handles "health programs under the Social Security Act and health programs financed by a specific tax or trust fund." Cassidy is on both committees.

Since 2015, Whitehouse appears to have been an active trader and filed 10 periodic transaction reports in 2016. Annual reports for 2016 aren't due until mid-May, but periodic reports must be filed within 45 days of a trade, according to the 2012 STOCK Act, which stands for Stop Trading on Congressional Knowledge.

Around the time the House released its near-final version of the 21st Century Cures bill, which was intended to speed the FDA's drug approval process, Whitehouse's family purchased more stock in Gilead Sciences, which makes the pricey hepatitis C drugs Sovaldi and Harvoni.

The Whitehouses' Gilead purchases that month ranged from $4,000 to $60,000. The family also purchased shares of Amgen and Abbott. Whitehouse later voted in favor of the bill. The Gilead stock decreased in value following these purchases but got a slight bump up just before the bill was signed into law on Dec. 13. Some of the Gilead stock was sold about a week later.

Zippyjuan
03-08-2017, 03:09 PM
Is there anything that Trump could do that would cause his base to abandon him? I'm not sure.

Many voted for Trump because he was going to change things- they didn't know how he was going to change them. Some may find they don't like some of his ideas for that change. But his core will still be there- like it was for Obama who also promised "Change". Every new president promises to change things. Then over time they realize they didn't get the change they expected and pick somebody else promising change.

Given Trump's propensity to division and controversy, I doubt he can retain a large enough base to win re-election in four years (didn't think W Bush could get re-elected either then 9/11 happened- whenever he started slipping in the polls during his re-election they released a vague terror attack warning which never happened- after the election they somehow stopped).

specsaregood
03-08-2017, 03:15 PM
Clues to what is going on: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/01/18/510431528/6-senators-assessing-trump-s-hhs-nominee-own-health-care-stocks-too

I seem to recall that congresspeople had passed a law exempting themselves from insider trading laws. I'm not sure they really want to research this all that deeply.

MallsRGood
03-08-2017, 03:27 PM
Is there anything that Trump could do that would cause his base to abandon him? I'm not sure.

The hardcore Trumpkins will stick with him to the bitter end, ala the Obamabots.

But this is a small part of the base. The majority (of those who haven't hated him all along) are starting to wake up.

EBounding
03-08-2017, 03:38 PM
Cucks need to fall in line. Our BIG LEAGUE president knows what he's doing!

CPUd
03-08-2017, 03:52 PM
Cucks need to fall in line. Our BIG LEAGUE president knows what he's doing!

indeed

http://i.imgur.com/nqhjUPI.jpg

MallsRGood
03-08-2017, 04:04 PM
His genus burns with the brilliance of a thousand suns...

nikcers
03-08-2017, 04:09 PM
Anyone have the clip from the debate where Rand said Trumps views on healthcare would be against everything the Republicans have stood for since the tea party movement? Is this a reverse tea party or just a tea party on steroids?

MallsRGood
03-08-2017, 04:27 PM
Anyone have the clip from the debate where Rand said Trumps views on healthcare would be against everything the Republicans have stood for since the tea party movement? Is this a reverse tea party or just a tea party on steroids?

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/250510-paul-cuts-off-over-trump-during-healthcare-answer


As Donald Trump was crescendoing on a clarification of his one-time support of a single-payer healthcare system during the first GOP primary debate Thursday, Sen. Rand Paul cut him off. “News flash,” the Kentucky Republican fired off at his competitor for the Republican presidential nomination. “The Republican Party’s been fighting against a single-payer system for over a decade.” “I don’t think you heard me,” Trump shot back. “You’re having a hard time tonight.” The testy exchange came amid a broader discussion of healthcare during the presidential debate in Cleveland. Trump was pressed on previous positive comments he had made the healthcare systems in countries like Canada, which is based on a single-payer model.

...Paul wasn’t the only one not swayed by Trump’s response. Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), the self-proclaimed socialist seeking the Democratic presidential nomination, incredulously tweeted: “Did @realDonaldTrump just support a national single-payer health system? Well. He was right on something. #DebateWithBernie”

The take away from this exchange by Republican voters?

...was is that Trump's a pro socialized medicine leftist masquerading as a conservative?

Nope, nope, it was that Trump, like, totally zinged Rand, woot, alpha baby!

:rolleyes:

Anyway, here's the video. Rand interjects around 1:30.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zFRjExsfTk

angelatc
03-08-2017, 04:34 PM
But this is a small part of the base. The majority (of those who haven't hated him all along) are starting to wake up.

What good does "waking up" accomplish? The article is right - people voted GOP for 6 straight years to get Obamacare repealed. THe law was passed with no GOP support, but this new bill is going to need Dem votes to carry it?

As with the bailouts and TARP stuff, the voters apparently have no say. The bastards will pass this, then in 2 years we'll lose seats. (Even Reagan lost seats.)

I don't blame Trump for the bill, although there's no good excuse for him to sign it. This is the same old squishy GOP and their passive-aggressive voters.

MallsRGood
03-08-2017, 04:40 PM
What good does "waking up" accomplish?

You're asking me what good it would do to stop supporting the leftist President's leftist agenda?


The article is right - people voted GOP for 6 straight years to get Obamacare repealed. THe law was passed with no GOP support, but this new bill is going to need Dem votes to carry it?

As with the bailouts and TARP stuff, the voters apparently have no say. The bastards will pass this, then in 2 years we'll lose seats. (Even Reagan lost seats.)

No no no, I'm sick of this bullshit narrative that politicians don't listen to the voters.

The vast majority of time, they do.

The problem is that the voters keep voting in obvious, overt leftists, like Trump and most of Congress.


I don't blame Trump for the bill

You should, since he's supporting it, and his position on it is more determinative of the outcome than anyone else's.

Zippyjuan
03-08-2017, 04:42 PM
What good does "waking up" accomplish? The article is right - people voted GOP for 6 straight years to get Obamacare repealed. THe law was passed with no GOP support, but this new bill is going to need Dem votes to carry it?

As with the bailouts and TARP stuff, the voters apparently have no say. The bastards will pass this, then in 2 years we'll lose seats. (Even Reagan lost seats.)

I don't blame Trump for the bill, although there's no good excuse for him to sign it. This is the same old squishy GOP and their passive-aggressive voters.

Actually it does most of what he outlined he wanted in his quasi- "State of the Union" speech he gave recently. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/01/healthcare-obamacare-trump-replace


The most important provision Trump supported was “tax credits”. Eerily similar to the current system of subsidies for individual insurance, Republicans have proposed these credits before. The difference? Republicans want them to be less generous, and to distribute them by age – not income.

This strategy is embraced by Republican leadership, but getting conservatives on board could determine whether the ship floats. Some right-leaning news outlets criticized tax credits because they continue government spending, and key conservatives have already come out against it.

“The bill contains what increasingly appears to be a new health-insurance entitlement with a Republican stamp on it,” Republican congressman Mark Walker said, according to Fox News.

Trump promised to provide “access” to coverage for people who are already sick with “pre-existing conditions”. That probably refers to high-risk pools – government-subsidized coverage plans that 35 states had before the ACA. Most had higher premiums and deductibles, and annual and lifetime limits on care. Republicans have also proposed this solution in past plans.

Trump called for “flexibility” with Medicaid spending, harkening back to work by Trump’s nominee to head the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid, Seema Verma. In the past, she designed state plans with work requirements for the poor, lock-out periods as long as six months, and complex bureaucracy. Nevertheless, her plans were able to expand Medicaid in deeply conservative states. She faces a key committee vote on Wednesday.

Trump’s promise to “implement

This is from a year ago: https://www.hermancain.com/trump-releases-seven-point-hea


1) Completely repeal Obamacare. Our elected representatives must eliminate the individual mandate. No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to.

2) Modify existing law that inhibits the sale of health insurance across state lines. As long as the plan purchased complies with state requirements, any vendor ought to be able to offer insurance in any state. By allowing full competition in this market, insurance costs will go down and consumer satisfaction will go up.

3) Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system. Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions? As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance. We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.

4) Allow individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). Contributions into HSAs should be tax-free and should be allowed to accumulate. These accounts would become part of the estate of the individual and could be passed on to heirs without fear of any death penalty. These plans should be particularly attractive to young people who are healthy and can afford high-deductible insurance plans. These funds can be used by any member of a family without penalty. The flexibility and security provided by HSAs will be of great benefit to all who participate.

5) Require price transparency from all healthcare providers, especially doctors and healthcare organizations like clinics and hospitals. Individuals should be able to shop to find the best prices for procedures, exams or any other medical-related procedure.

6) Block-grant Medicaid to the states. Nearly every state already offers benefits beyond what is required in the current Medicaid structure. The state governments know their people best and can manage the administration of Medicaid far better without federal overhead. States will have the incentives to seek out and eliminate fraud, waste and abuse to preserve our precious resources.

7) Remove barriers to entry into free markets for drug providers that offer safe, reliable and cheaper products. Congress will need the courage to step away from the special interests and do what is right for America. Though the pharmaceutical industry is in the private sector, drug companies provide a public service. Allowing consumers access to imported, safe and dependable drugs from overseas will bring more options to consumers.

CPUd
03-08-2017, 04:48 PM
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/250510-paul-cuts-off-over-trump-during-healthcare-answer



The take away from this exchange by Republican voters?

...was is that Trump's a pro socialized medicine leftist masquerading as a conservative?

Nope, nope, it was that Trump, like, totally zinged Rand, woot, alpha baby!

:rolleyes:

Anyway, here's the video. Rand interjects around 1:30.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zFRjExsfTk

In that exchange, he was actually making fun of Rand for having hearing aids.

H. E. Panqui
03-08-2017, 05:30 PM
Is there anything that Trump could do that would cause his base to abandon him? I'm not sure.

...republicans are remarkably loyal...and stooooooooooopid....it's loooooooooong-standing...ronald reagan had his idiots frothing at mouth about 'jimmy carter's horrible spending and accumulated debt'...then stinking reagan signed virtually every spending bill on the way to a doubling of carter's budget and a tripling of the carter national debt accumulation..but reagan is still a hero [ime, the biggest hero of the loudest republicreeps] to the republican-cheerleading peckerheads...trump reminds me of reagan......

Zippyjuan
03-08-2017, 05:34 PM
...republicans are remarkably loyal...and stooooooooooopid....it's loooooooooong-standing...ronald reagan had his idiots frothing at mouth about jimmy carter's horrible spending and accumulated debt...then stinking reagan signed virtually every spending bill on the way to a doubling of carter's budget and a tripling of the carter national debt accumulation..but reagan is still a hero [ime, the biggest hero of the loudest republicreeps] to the republican-cheerleading peckerheads...trump reminds me a lot reagan for some reason...

Reagan expanded Medicare and signed what at the time was the largest tax increase in US history (he also signed bills to reduce taxes). He argued against nuclear weapons (and even suggested in negotiations with Russia that both sides get rid of all of theirs) while presiding over the largest expansion of our nuclear arsenal (and peacetime increase in defense spending too).

angelatc
03-08-2017, 06:53 PM
You're asking me what good it would do to stop supporting the leftist President's leftist agenda?



.

One thing Ron Paul was good about was keeping personality separate from policy. I was talking about a bad policy, you're talking about Trump.

So my bad. Carry on.

angelatc
03-08-2017, 06:55 PM
Actually it does most of what he outlined he wanted in his quasi- "State of the Union" speech he gave recently. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/01/healthcare-obamacare-trump-replace

See the post above.

I don't give a fuck what Trump said - he doesn't write bills. He signs them.

Zippyjuan
03-08-2017, 07:25 PM
See the post above.

I don't give a $#@! what Trump said - he doesn't write bills. He signs them.

By your definition, that also exempts Obama from any credit or blame for Obamacare and every other piece of legislation he signed. Congress wrote it after all. He only signed it. It should have been called "CongressCare".

nikcers
03-08-2017, 07:31 PM
Wasn't 600 dollar epinephrine shots that cost 30 cents to manufacture the final nail in the coffin? I remember the talking point even some "libertarians" were telling was that Our healthcare system didn't have enough people paying into it so if everyone pays a little into it going to the doctors will become cheaper. This was supposed to put an end to 60 dollar asprin in the ER. I never understood this argument I remember saying are you stupid we have the most expensive healthcare in the world how is giving it more money going to help when the most expensive part of medicine is billing they have to pay people to count our money because we are so ducking stupid

CPUd
03-08-2017, 08:47 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHv8QbTjqvE

MallsRGood
03-08-2017, 08:49 PM
I was talking about a bad policy, you're talking about Trump.

No, I too am talking about bad policy, Trumpcare in this case.

Jamesiv1
03-08-2017, 09:02 PM
Trump is executing a double-reverse psyop chess move, and you guys don't even see it.

This board is lame.

angelatc
03-08-2017, 09:03 PM
By your definition, that also exempts Obama from any credit or blame for Obamacare and every other piece of legislation he signed. Congress wrote it after all. He only signed it. It should have been called "CongressCare".

The big difference being that Trump hasn't actually signed it yet, pinhead. Once he signs it, then the blame indeed lies on him.

nikcers
03-08-2017, 09:10 PM
The big difference being that Trump hasn't actually signed it yet, pinhead. Once he signs it, then the blame indeed lies on him.
No he is the piece of shit advocating for it. You can't tell people to eat pieces of shit for dinner because you do it and it makes you younger, and the call people stupid for eating pieces of shit. Stop eating pieces of shit, it is bad for you. I can't even people think that this is even a non issue, almost everyone I know in real life who voted for Trump did so for foreign policy and Obamacare. You guys need to stop eating this shit.

William Tell
03-08-2017, 09:27 PM
The big difference being that Trump hasn't actually signed it yet, pinhead. Once he signs it, then the blame indeed lies on him.

Well, he's trying to pressure Rand and the House to send it to him to sign.

MallsRGood
03-08-2017, 09:29 PM
The big difference being that Trump hasn't actually signed it yet, pinhead. Once he signs it, then the blame indeed lies on him.

So, we can't criticize a politician for publicly endorsing a horrible policy?

We have to wait till it actually becomes law to criticize them?

...surely you jest.

CPUd
03-08-2017, 10:24 PM
839635682763161600
https://twitter.com/pdmcleod/status/839635682763161600

UWDude
03-08-2017, 10:27 PM
Given Trump's propensity to division and controversy, I doubt he can retain a large enough base to win re-election in four years

Remind us of your last presidential outcome predictions, please.


Is there anything that Trump could do that would cause his base to abandon him? I'm not sure.

I don't care. I am just fine with the tax credits plan.
I am also pleased with the transparency of the process. There is still lots of negotiating and compromise to happen.

The big difference being that Trump hasn't actually signed it yet, pinhead. Once he signs it, then the blame indeed lies on him.

"it" doesn't even exist yet. It still has to go to committee. There are three phases, and it is in the preliminary stage of phase 1.

CPUd
03-08-2017, 10:30 PM
839655631707639810
https://twitter.com/AndreyOstrovsky/status/839655631707639810

UWDude
03-08-2017, 10:31 PM
I sure am glad Andrey Ostrovsky has spoken on this. Now I will have to reconsider my position.

CPUd
03-08-2017, 10:33 PM
839665918754099200
https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/839665918754099200

UWDude
03-08-2017, 10:36 PM
839665918754099200
https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/839665918754099200

Well hell, if Jim Acosta says he is told something....

CPUd
03-08-2017, 10:44 PM
839668162949951488
https://twitter.com/Acosta/status/839668162949951488

oyarde
03-08-2017, 11:22 PM
By your definition, that also exempts Obama from any credit or blame for Obamacare and every other piece of legislation he signed. Congress wrote it after all. He only signed it. It should have been called "CongressCare".

Well , I see your point , Reid & Pelosi did not get enough credit for fining the poor .

CPUd
03-09-2017, 07:53 PM
839881150806044672
https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/839881150806044672

839865300799610880
https://twitter.com/PoliticoKevin/status/839865300799610880

CPUd
03-13-2017, 01:23 PM
841365298527764482
https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/841365298527764482



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6vhKdLU8AAkNiW.jpg

CPUd
03-13-2017, 02:11 PM
-14M
-24M in 10 years

841380659671232513
https://twitter.com/jimtankersley/status/841380659671232513



a clean repeal would be -32M

CPUd
03-13-2017, 02:18 PM
Clean repeal CBO doc from January (HR 3762): https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52371
CBO doc for AHCA from today: https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/115th-congress-2017-2018/costestimate/americanhealthcareact.pdf

CPUd
03-13-2017, 02:20 PM
SO MUCH WINNING

841381825444511744
https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/841381825444511744

CPUd
03-13-2017, 03:06 PM
Washington, D.C. – House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (CA-23) released the following statement on the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report for the American Health Care Act (AHCA):


“Obamacare continues to collapse under its own weight. Premiums are skyrocketing. Insurers are pulling out of the marketplace, leaving some counties with no providers at all and others with only one choice. This report by the CBO confirms that this first phase of health care reform, the American Health Care Act, uses conservative and free-market principles that will empower Americans with access, choice, and affordability. After ten years, premiums will be 10% lower than under Obamacare even while we reduce the deficit by $337 billion and make Medicaid solvent with an $880 billion reduction in spending. The next phases of our plan—from administrative actions taken by Health and Human Services Secretary Tom Price to scheduling votes on additional legislation outside of the reconciliation process—will only further reduce costs and increase access to health care.

“Unlike Obamacare, our plan does not force people to buy insurance plans they may not want or even need. The fundamental premise of the American Health Care Act is that people should be free and able to buy quality health care that suits their needs.”
https://www.majorityleader.gov/2017/03/13/leader-mccarthy-ahca-cbo-report/

juleswin
03-13-2017, 03:14 PM
SO MUCH WINNING

841381825444511744
https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/841381825444511744

This is why this healthcare will never be fixed. Old people who consume the vast majority of the healthcare services will never vote to hurt themselves. How dare Paul Ryan make old people pay more for a product they consume the most.

fcreature
03-13-2017, 03:59 PM
So, we can't criticize a politician for publicly endorsing a horrible policy?

We have to wait till it actually becomes law to criticize them?

...surely you jest.

Pleasantly surprised by the amount of people at /r/T_D who are seeing through this con job.

Not surprised by those Trump people here who are being fooled.

Hopefully Rand's efforts will torpedo this thing. When they do, you'll see these same people claiming this to be some over 9,000-D chess move that Trump planned all along.

But god forbid someone calls out Trump's endorsement of, and relentless support of this trash bill. Don't worry though! Phase 2 and 3 will fix everything. We just have to pass it so that we can see what is in it...

CPUd
03-13-2017, 04:17 PM
Pleasantly surprised by the amount of people at /r/T_D who are seeing through this con job.

Not surprised by those Trump people here who are being fooled.

Hopefully Rand's efforts will torpedo this thing. When they do, you'll see these same people claiming this to be some over 9,000-D chess move that Trump planned all along.

But god forbid someone calls out Trump's endorsement of, and relentless support of this trash bill. Don't worry though! Phase 2 and 3 will fix everything. We just have to pass it so that we can see what is in it...

It's even worse this time around, the bill is online and it's clearly a mess. We have to pass it before we can fix it.

Zippyjuan
03-13-2017, 04:48 PM
By 2020, premiums expected to rise by 15- 20% more than under the current plan as fewer healthy people sign up. Rates would be even higher for older people (current law allows insurance companies to charge older clients three times younger ones, new bill would allow five times as high of a rate). If you were uninsured for 63 days in the last year, they can charge you an additional thirty percent more.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/13/us/politics/document-CBO-Health-Care-Cost-Estimates.html?_r=0

Zippyjuan
03-13-2017, 05:00 PM
-14M
-24M in 10 years

841380659671232513
https://twitter.com/jimtankersley/status/841380659671232513



a clean repeal would be -32M

24 million fewer to be insured by 2026 (relative to projected insured people numbers under current law). Didn't Trump promise something different?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-vows-insurance-for-everybody-in-obamacare-replacement-plan/2017/01/15/5f2b1e18-db5d-11e6-ad42-f3375f271c9c_story.html?utm_term=.059edbfc9d58


Trump vows ‘insurance for everybody’ in Obamacare replacement plan

President-elect Donald Trump said in a weekend interview that he is nearing completion of a plan to replace President Obama’s signature health-care law with the goal of “insurance for everybody,” while also vowing to force drug companies to negotiate directly with the government on prices in Medicare and Medicaid.

Trump declined to reveal specifics in the telephone interview late Saturday with The Washington Post, but any proposals from the incoming president would almost certainly dominate the Republican effort to overhaul federal health policy as he prepares to work with his party’s congressional majorities.

Trump’s plan is likely to face questions from the right, after years of GOP opposition to further expansion of government involvement in the health-care system, and from those on the left, who see his ideas as disruptive to changes brought by the Affordable Care Act that have extended coverage to tens of millions of Americans.

dannno
03-13-2017, 05:03 PM
He actually promised "insurance for everybody."

I believe everybody will in fact have the ability to purchase insurance.

Zippyjuan
03-13-2017, 05:06 PM
I believe everybody will in fact have the ability to purchase insurance.

Technically, everybody has the ability to purchase it now. The question is the money. The proposal doesn't do anything about that. It also reduces subsidies for those with lower incomes (and less able to buy insurance) while raising subsidies for those at higher incomes (who can easily afford their own).

specsaregood
03-13-2017, 05:06 PM
Clean repeal CBO doc from January (HR 3762): https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52371
CBO doc for AHCA from today: https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/115th-congress-2017-2018/costestimate/americanhealthcareact.pdf

It's too bad we can't get a cbo review of randals bill.

dannno
03-13-2017, 05:09 PM
Technically, everybody has the ability to purchase it now.

I think the statement may have been referring to pre-existing conditions, the formerly 'un-insurable' pre-Obamacare. Even Rand's free market plan has an answer for that.

UWDude
03-13-2017, 08:31 PM
Hopefully Rand's efforts will torpedo this thing. When they do, you'll see these same people claiming this to be some over 9,000-D chess move that Trump planned all along.

But god forbid someone calls out Trump's endorsement of, and relentless support of this trash bill. Don't worry though! Phase 2 and 3 will fix everything. We just have to pass it so that we can see what is in it...

Wrong. Trump is going to negotiate. that is what he does. And Rand may not get everything, but I'd be willing to bet he gets a couple of things.
IF you watched the press conferences, you would understand better. Spicer said trump wants interstate trading, as well as a couple of other things.


We have to pass it before we can fix it.

Nobody has said this.

TheCount
03-13-2017, 08:55 PM
Spicer said trump wants interstate trading, as well as a couple of other things.

He can't put those things in this bill because they're using legislative tricks to prevent a Senate filibuster, and as a result everything in the bill must be "budget related." If they were to change the bill, it would be filibustered forever.

All of the things Trump said that should be in there will have to be in the 'you have to pass it before you can fix it' follow up bills.


Nobody has said this.

839108868584124417

UWDude
03-13-2017, 09:51 PM
He can't put those things in this bill because they're using legislative tricks to prevent a Senate filibuster, and as a result everything in the bill must be "budget related." If they were to change the bill, it would be filibustered forever.

All of the things Trump said that should be in there will have to be in the 'you have to pass it before you can fix it' follow up bills.



839108868584124417

He is saying exactly what I just said. Ryancare does not allow interstate buying of healthplans, ("State Lines"), one of the biggest sticking points.
I suspect the tax credits are staying. You call it a subsidy, I call it tax relief, which is amazing, since the mandate was ruled a tax by the supreme court.
The insurance penalties will probably stay. That is fairly standard practice amongst insurance companies anyway. There is usually a penalty for not having been insured before previously purchasing insurance.

This is Dr Rand Paul's big chance to shine. I hope he does well, he may even wrestle power from Ryan with this.

UWDude
03-13-2017, 10:50 PM
Oh, and I really hope tort reform is enacted as well.

CPUd
03-13-2017, 11:04 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C60-n_kXAAQYXuu.jpg:large

TheCount
03-13-2017, 11:55 PM
Ryancare does not allow interstate buying of healthplans, ("State Lines"), one of the biggest sticking points.It can't include it, just as I said.

Phase 2 and 3 implies that phase 1 is passed first. Again, 'you have to pass it before you can fix it.'


I suspect the tax credits are staying. You call it a subsidy, I call it tax relief, which is amazing, since the mandate was ruled a tax by the supreme court.They cannot be tax relief to people who pay no taxes. It is a new form of welfare.

PatriotOne
03-14-2017, 12:07 AM
Personally I like seeing how Trump is letting Paul Ryan (NEVERTRUMP) take a public beating over this to show what a failure he is. You watch...Ryan plan is not THE plan.

TheCount
03-14-2017, 12:20 AM
Step 3: Fix the bill you just passed.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/policymic-images/15qtt1wocaiz75vouesrl8tcssb4jzmdxb0tqgwy4bd68fvtpy lqizuqqpt8u5a3.jpg

Zippyjuan
03-14-2017, 10:33 AM
Personally I like seeing how Trump is letting Paul Ryan (NEVERTRUMP) take a public beating over this to show what a failure he is. You watch...Ryan plan is not THE plan.

Trump can't write "the plan"- that is Congress's role. He can only suggest what he would like to see in the bill. They have to write and pass the legislation. (and the bill is pretty much what he said recently what he would like to see in the bill).

Fewer people insured will mean more people who have to rely on going to the emergency room for medical care (since they cannot be refused there)- clogging up emergency rooms for basic services and making healthcare cost more for everybody.

nikcers
03-14-2017, 10:58 AM
Fewer people insured will mean more people who have to rely on going to the emergency room for medical care (since they cannot be refused there)- clogging up emergency rooms for basic services and making healthcare cost more for everybody. That's just not completely true and you know it. Fewer people insured will mean more demand for access to healthcare that doesn't require insurance.

My mom never had insurance and finally had to get insurance after the mandate and is on high blood pressure medicine for the first time in my life since the affordable care act. Do you know how much the actual cost is of those blood pressure pills versus the subsidies she receives? its about 150,000:1 cost to benefit ratio. The blood pressure pills she has to take probably only cost a few pennies.

I get the point of buying healthcare in bulk, but not if most of it goes to waste. It's like if I bought milk at 10 gallons at a time but only needed one gallon. The other 9 gallons aren't going to people who need it, its getting poured out or getting sucked by the student loan bank or the American medical monopoly or our college monopoly.

Zippyjuan
03-14-2017, 11:06 AM
http://www.physicianspractice.com/blog/emergency-rooms-continue-serve-patients-primary-care-provider


Emergency Rooms Continue to Serve as Patients' Primary-care Provider

Some people blame the U.S. economy’s sluggish recovery; others blame the influx of immigrants of all statuses; and still others blame the increasing number of people who live below the poverty line, including those who are unemployed or underemployed. Whatever the cause, the effect is the same: People who have little or no insurance are using hospital emergency departments (EDs) as medical homes for nonemergency healthcare. And this change affects the way hospitals in the United States do business.

For years, uninsured patients have flooded hospital emergency departments seeking relief for common earaches, chronic disease management, and other nonurgent health issues. Many of these patients feel they have no other place to go, and some have never gone anywhere else to receive healthcare. In a May 2012 report, The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention cited a National Health Interview Survey that found that almost 80 percent of adults who visited EDs over a 12-month period said they did so because of a lack of access to other healthcare providers. One possible reason for the insufficient availability of timely care could be shortages of primary-care physicians (PCPs) in some areas of the country, according to the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO). However, as these patients become serial ED visitors, the sheer number of them could overwhelm some hospitals. And that possibility raises some legitimate concerns that patients with true emergencies may be left languishing in the waiting room of the ED behind someone with a sore throat and cough.

Another issue is cost. Some people balk at having to pay emergency department prices after receiving nonemergency care. Obviously, if people are poor and have either no job or a low-paying job, then they may have trouble paying their ED bills. Plus, Medicaid and other forms of public coverage pay only portions of these bills. That reality coupled with the increasing volume of patients involved has caused some facilities to devise strategies for managing serial ED visitors.

nikcers
03-14-2017, 11:08 AM
http://www.physicianspractice.com/blog/emergency-rooms-continue-serve-patients-primary-care-provider
Don't give me that line of shit I know emergency rooms are a financial black hole. I racked up over 1 million in medical debt before I was a year old from emergency rooms. If there was a free market healthcare would get cheaper like everything else. More government intervention is just going to, and has made it more expensive. We need access to healthcare that doesn't require insurance Zippy, what part of that do you not understand? More insurance is not going to fix this problem.

Zippyjuan
03-14-2017, 11:15 AM
TrumpCare/ RyanCare doesn't make it any cheaper or make it any easier for people to access healthcare either.

nikcers
03-14-2017, 11:24 AM
TrumpCare/ RyanCare doesn't make it any cheaper or make it any easier for people to access healthcare either. It's not about whether apples are better then oranges. It's about the fact that we are forced to pay for healthcare at prices higher then market rates would allow because we are ignorant and arguing about apples and oranges.

nikcers
03-14-2017, 11:29 AM
In what other industry do you not get a discount for buying a lot of it? I understand minimum billable hours, I do that with my job. It costs me this much billable time to do this job even if this job doesn't take this amount of time. I feel like they take this extra billable time to do billing and bill us for the billing time. I feel like this is an extra step in the process that just wouldn't happen if a company had to cut waste in order to stay competitive and keep their lights on.

UWDude
03-14-2017, 11:29 AM
It can't include it, just as I said.

Phase 2 and 3 implies that phase 1 is passed first. Again, 'you have to pass it before you can fix it.'


"phase 1 is passed"

Uh, you sure you have any idea what you are talking about here? There is no bill to be passed until phase 3 is completed.

Zippyjuan
03-14-2017, 11:42 AM
"Phase One in which Doris Gets Her Oats". - I Dig a Pony (Beatles).

Nothing is passed yet. TrumpCare seems likely not to pass.

nikcers
03-14-2017, 11:54 AM
"Phase One in which Doris Gets Her Oats". - I Dig a Pony (Beatles).

Nothing is passed yet. TrumpCare seems likely not to pass.
dead on arrival

http://i.imgur.com/qJsL0rK.jpg

Zippyjuan
03-14-2017, 12:00 PM
dead on arrival

http://i.imgur.com/qJsL0rK.jpg

If it gets through the House and Democrats don't support it (likely), they only need two Republicans in the Senate to oppose it to stop it. Rand is one of those.

CPUd
03-14-2017, 12:20 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C65Ij7GWwAAiGp8.jpg:large

CPUd
03-14-2017, 12:43 PM
841720857915453440
https://twitter.com/sangerkatz/status/841720857915453440

CPUd
03-14-2017, 04:29 PM
841774995542024192

841776377481314304

841777573453545472
https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/841777573453545472

CPUd
03-14-2017, 08:39 PM
841835988586487808
https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/841835988586487808

CPUd
03-15-2017, 01:43 PM
842096258856685572
https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/842096258856685572


Meadows is also on the committee, so they just need 2 more GOP to keep it off the floor:

842097149412311050
https://twitter.com/ddiamond/status/842097149412311050

Superfluous Man
03-15-2017, 01:58 PM
He is saying exactly what I just said. Ryancare does not allow interstate buying of healthplans, ("State Lines"), one of the biggest sticking points.
I suspect the tax credits are staying. You call it a subsidy, I call it tax relief, which is amazing, since the mandate was ruled a tax by the supreme court.
The insurance penalties will probably stay. That is fairly standard practice amongst insurance companies anyway. There is usually a penalty for not having been insured before previously purchasing insurance.

This is Dr Rand Paul's big chance to shine. I hope he does well, he may even wrestle power from Ryan with this.

Tax credits are not tax relief. They are subsidies.

Maybe you're thinking of tax deductions, which is not the same thing.

Superfluous Man
03-15-2017, 02:00 PM
Why do people keep referring to Trumpcare as Ryancare?

CPUd
03-15-2017, 02:02 PM
Why do people keep referring to Trumpcare as Ryancare?

Trumpcare would be single-payer


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPJfKdp3bDs

William Tell
03-15-2017, 04:00 PM
If it gets through the House and Democrats don't support it (likely), they only need two Republicans in the Senate to oppose it to stop it. Rand is one of those.

I thought they needed 3 because Pence.

CPUd
03-16-2017, 08:43 AM
842385194690723841
https://twitter.com/jenhab/status/842385194690723841

AuH20
03-16-2017, 09:50 AM
It's starting. The wonderboy could be on thin ice.

842147154944774144

Zippyjuan
03-16-2017, 10:46 AM
It's starting. The wonderboy could be on thin ice.



Trump Rule #1. Always blame somebody else for failures. Never admit you were wrong.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
03-16-2017, 11:50 AM
Trump Rule #1. Always blame somebody else for failures. Never admit you were wrong.



Where is this "Rule #1" recorded or documented?

CPUd
03-16-2017, 07:49 PM
Trump Rule #1. Always blame somebody else for failures. Never admit you were wrong.

Obama is Trump’s go-to scapegoat for White House woes (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?508687-Obama-is-Trump%92s-go-to-scapegoat-for-White-House-woes&p=6434876#post6434876)

nikcers
03-17-2017, 12:46 PM
If it gets through the House and Democrats don't support it (likely), they only need two Republicans in the Senate to oppose it to stop it. Rand is one of those.
BOOM

Republican Sen. Dean Heller won't vote for health plan (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/republican-sen.-dean-heller-wont-vote-for-health-plan/article/2617725)



Republican Sen. Dean Heller said he won't vote for a House GOP bill that would repeal Obamacare, the second moderate senator and third Republican to pull ...

CPUd
03-17-2017, 12:53 PM
hold

842753728285499396
https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/842753728285499396

William Tell
03-17-2017, 12:54 PM
BOOM



Republican Sen. Dean Heller said he won't vote for a House GOP bill that would repeal Obamacare, the second moderate senator and third Republican to pull ...

Excellent, if he stays that way we just need Rand and Lee, they shouldn't be too hard to convince;)

CPUd
03-17-2017, 12:57 PM
842045483459706880
https://twitter.com/PhilipRucker/status/842045483459706880

TheCount
03-17-2017, 01:12 PM
Excellent, if he stays that way we just need Rand and Lee, they shouldn't be too hard to convince;)

I would expect the "if you don't support this bill then you love Obamacare" to start in soon.

nikcers
03-17-2017, 01:20 PM
I would expect the "if you don't support this bill then you love Obamacare" to start in soon.

Rand's been saying this for a while now- the negotiations start when it becomes public knowledge that they don't have enough support. So Trump has already started telling everyone that there is support for this bill because of negotiations prior to even negotiation. It's like saying you won a battle before the battle is even fought. I hope that his narrative doesn't win out, otherwise we will have insurance bailouts and huge increases in prices for insurance.

CPUd
03-17-2017, 01:25 PM
842813172046282752
https://twitter.com/SteveKopack/status/842813172046282752

CPUd
03-17-2017, 08:23 PM
LOL 1000%

842863541938016256
https://twitter.com/derekwillis/status/842863541938016256

CPUd
03-18-2017, 01:23 PM
Floor vote scheduled for Thursday. There is talk about getting more support if they increase the "tax credit" and deal with the high premiums for 64+. Justin says the Freedom Caucus will not go for anything that doesn't include a clean repeal.

842891358843158528
https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/842891358843158528

MallsRGood
03-18-2017, 02:32 PM
Floor vote scheduled for Thursday. There is talk about getting more support if they increase the "tax credit" and deal with the high premiums for 64+. Justin says the Freedom Caucus will not go for anything that doesn't include a clean repeal.

Yup, they're moving leftward to bring in enough moderates (and, if need be, Dems) to neutralize conservative opposition.

CPUd
03-20-2017, 07:12 PM
843989317575958528
https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/843989317575958528


843954800614084608
https://twitter.com/mj_lee/status/843954800614084608

843986433039908865
https://twitter.com/ddiamond/status/843986433039908865

The Proservative
03-20-2017, 07:31 PM
Agree with you totally man. Right now, we need to be holding Paul Ryan and his phony conservatives' feet to the fire for even considering passing "ObamaCare Lite", as Rand Paul so accurately described this bill.

CPUd
03-20-2017, 08:16 PM
844007213366726656
https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/844007213366726656

CPUd
03-20-2017, 08:53 PM
844013467371782144
https://twitter.com/SpeakerRyan/status/844013467371782144


844019298918154240
https://twitter.com/dougstafford/status/844019298918154240