ICE pulled me aside for "secondary screening" coming back into the USA!!

[ChristianAnarchist]

I'm coming back into the good 'ole USA (you know - the "land of the free") and the immigration people decide to pull me aside for secondary screening. Even with my extensive study of how to handle such situations I did not handle it as well as I should have. They asked me to go into another room where they had a counter and several goons and some waiting chairs for all the "mother-rapers and father-rapers".

After waiting at least 10 minutes they called me up and the very first thing I said was "why am I being detained". That drew a smirk from the goon and when I saw the look he was giving me I stated "you know where this is going". I informed him that I was not going to answer any of his questions and I wanted to know what reason they "detained" me. They would not give me one (of course) and stated that they were "doing their job" (of course I stated that the Nazis said the same thing). I asked them what authority they have and they stated some law and I asked for a copy of it (which they actually provided). When I looked at it it only said they have authority to "inspect and search". I told them (visibly angry by now and raising my voice in front of all the other rapers) I emptied all my pockets into my bags and told them here I am, inspect me and search me and let me go on my way because they are detaining me for an investigation which is outside their jurisdiction. They asked me a few more questions and I firmly told them I'm not answering their questions and to either charge me or let me go. I even turned my back to the desk and held my hands behind my back for the cuffs.

During the course of 20 minutes or so I asked them several times if I'm free to go and at one time the goon said "you can try" in a threatening manor. They were holding my passport (which I would have let them keep if necessary and apply for another). At one point the goon told the supervisor goon who was watching over his shoulder that "I got nothing" and some reference to the fact that he was not the one who flagged me for secondary screening. At that point they decided to go talk to my wife who was waiting for me outside (in spite of the fact that I had texted her to go out of the screening area) and pulled her in to talk to me (as I was visibly angry and making many references to the police state). I did not appreciate them involving her (of course she answered all their questions in spite of my many instructions to never answer goons questions).

After they had their egos stroked by my wife answering their questions they let me go (which they were going to do anyway because the goon said he got nothing on me).

I've had a long discussion with my wife and from now on she goes through ahead of me and after she's through I will go to the desk with some form of prepared statement on paper saying why I'm exercising my right to remain silent and why their own stupid "law" says their only duty is to "inspect and search" (which I will reluctantly allow to get through their goon point). I'm also planning to record the entire event even though they have signs up saying to can't and I will provide the supreme court ruling that says I can (once I find it).

Anyway, if any of you have references to laws and cites I can use in my prepared (border crossing statement) I'm all ears...

[CPUd]

Welcome back, and glad you weren't tazed. While you were gone, extreme vetting was implemented for our safety:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?508252-TSA-to-get-more-aggresive-and-intimate-in-pat-downs

[ChristianAnarchist]

Welcome back, and glad you weren't tazed. While you were gone, extreme vetting was implemented for our safety:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?508252-TSA-to-get-more-aggresive-and-intimate-in-pat-downs

Oh yeah, got that done too on the way to the connecting flight. The TSA goon basically have me a hand-job...

[presence]

Oh yeah, got that done too on the way to the connecting flight. The TSA goon basically have me a hand-job...

yep

not flying

I'd be too prone to kill

[Suzanimal]

Did they ask for passwords?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?507311-Homeland-Security-Secretary-Says-Passwords-May-Be-Required-to-Enter-U-S

[Iowa]

Really sorry to hear that. Pretty infuriating. Any problems in customs after? Did they flag you there?

[sparebulb]

A real patriot would wear assless chaps to make TSA inspections easier.

I'm sure that Lindsey Graham has a pair.

[PatriotOne]

I was detained for almost 3 hours a few yrs back while driving into Canada while they searched every inch of my "packed for camping" SUV and made calls to check on my identity and what not. I didn't feel the need to scream racism, nationalism, sexism, or any ism at all. I think they were looking for drugs...which was funny cause I hardly look like I would be a drug dealer.

[PatriotOne]

I'm coming back into the good 'ole USA (you know - the "land of the free") and the immigration people decide to pull me aside for secondary screening. Even with my extensive study of how to handle such situations I did not handle it as well as I should have. They asked me to go into another room where they had a counter and several goons and some waiting chairs for all the "mother-rapers and father-rapers".

After waiting at least 10 minutes they called me up and the very first thing I said was "why am I being detained". That drew a smirk from the goon and when I saw the look he was giving me I stated "you know where this is going". I informed him that I was not going to answer any of his questions and I wanted to know what reason they "detained" me. They would not give me one (of course) and stated that they were "doing their job" (of course I stated that the Nazis said the same thing). I asked them what authority they have and they stated some law and I asked for a copy of it (which they actually provided). When I looked at it it only said they have authority to "inspect and search". I told them (visibly angry by now and raising my voice in front of all the other rapers) I emptied all my pockets into my bags and told them here I am, inspect me and search me and let me go on my way because they are detaining me for an investigation which is outside their jurisdiction. They asked me a few more questions and I firmly told them I'm not answering their questions and to either charge me or let me go. I even turned my back to the desk and held my hands behind my back for the cuffs.

During the course of 20 minutes or so I asked them several times if I'm free to go and at one time the goon said "you can try" in a threatening manor. They were holding my passport (which I would have let them keep if necessary and apply for another). At one point the goon told the supervisor goon who was watching over his shoulder that "I got nothing" and some reference to the fact that he was not the one who flagged me for secondary screening. At that point they decided to go talk to my wife who was waiting for me outside (in spite of the fact that I had texted her to go out of the screening area) and pulled her in to talk to me (as I was visibly angry and making many references to the police state). I did not appreciate them involving her (of course she answered all their questions in spite of my many instructions to never answer goons questions).

After they had their egos stroked by my wife answering their questions they let me go (which they were going to do anyway because the goon said he got nothing on me).

I've had a long discussion with my wife and from now on she goes through ahead of me and after she's through I will go to the desk with some form of prepared statement on paper saying why I'm exercising my right to remain silent and why their own stupid "law" says their only duty is to "inspect and search" (which I will reluctantly allow to get through their goon point). I'm also planning to record the entire event even though they have signs up saying to can't and I will provide the supreme court ruling that says I can (once I find it).

Anyway, if any of you have references to laws and cites I can use in my prepared (border crossing statement) I'm all ears...

Are you muslim or something?

[osan]

yep

not flying

I'd be too prone to kill


I spent 2.5 hours in cuffs at EWR in '13 because of my empty holster. I refused to talk. They called in FBI, TSA, PA police... bomb squad onto the plane I was on (a show item just to put it to me), and brought in parameds in hope they could get me into a mental institution for "observtaion". One goon wearing a vest and trying to look all "tactical" told me he would have shot me on the spot and that nobody would have questioned it. The other cops were just a bunch of dopes doing what they are told. The only one decent was the supervisor, a sergeant. He finally got to practically begging me to answer the paramedic's questions so we could all go home.

These people are the enablers of evil.

[pcosmar]

Nope. Have no interest in flying or even airports.

Just walkin' around is getting difficult enough.

[TheTexan]

Everyone has to have hobbies. I'm glad you've found one you enjoy.

Have you tried BDSM? You might like it.

[oyarde]

Glad you made it back OK .

[ChristianAnarchist]

I was detained for almost 3 hours a few yrs back while driving into Canada while they searched every inch of my "packed for camping" SUV and made calls to check on my identity and what not. I didn't feel the need to scream racism, nationalism, sexism, or any ism at all. I think they were looking for drugs...which was funny cause I hardly look like I would be a drug dealer.

That's the most successful kind of drug smuggler...

[ChristianAnarchist]

Are you muslim or something?

Worse... A Christian Anarchist...

[ChristianAnarchist]

Everyone has to have hobbies. I'm glad you've found one you enjoy.

Have you tried BDSM? You might like it.

I'm willing to try almost anything once...

[ChristianAnarchist]

Did they ask for passwords?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?507311-Homeland-Security-Secretary-Says-Passwords-May-Be-Required-to-Enter-U-S

They did not and I would not have provided them. Next time I travel I'm backing up all my photos and videos to Mega before I come back so I have no worries about any "seizure" they care to make. I'm also planning to make some kind of mount for my gopro that straps around my neck and makes it very difficult to remove and blocks the start-stop button on the camera so they can't turn it off. I'm planning an all out assault on promoting liberty to these goons on my next trip. You might not hear from me for a few weeks after that trip...

[ChristianAnarchist]

I've done some searching and I am not able to find that it's ok to video within the building where they "process" you. It seems that the "right to record" only has been validated for public places which I don't think applies to the immigration screening area. If I'm wrong, I'd like some info on recording within their building...

[Ender]

Worse... A Christian Anarchist...

I empathize.

[Working Poor]

A real patriot would wear assless chaps to make TSA inspections easier.

I'm sure that Lindsey Graham has a pair.

LOL

[69360]

Legally they do have the right to detain you and search you and your bags or vehicle upon entry to the country, it's been that way for a long time this wasn't something new post 9/11. However you are not legally required to answer any questions. You are well within your rights to inform them you wish to remain silent. Of course this will cause you major delays and if you have something prohibited hidden they will probably find it anyway. I have no idea about the filming.

In your case if you think you can't control your comments, it's probably best to remain silent and let them do what they want then go on your way.

[Iowa]

For starters.


Q.If I am selected for a longer interview when I am coming into the United States, what can I do?

A.If you are a U.S. citizen and the officers’ questions become intrusive, you have the right to talk to a lawyer before answering any questions. You should be aware that refusing to cooperate with officers may result in delay and/or further inspection. If you are a lawful permanent resident, your right to talk to a lawyer depends on the circumstances. If the officers’ questions become intrusive, you may ask to speak to a lawyer but, in some situations, officers have the authority to refuse to allow you to speak to a lawyer before you answer their questions. If you are a non-citizen visa holder selected for further questioning, you may ask to talk to a lawyer but you generally do not have the right to consult a lawyer before answering the officers’ questions. Importantly, for anyone attempting to enter the United States, if a customs officer or border agent informs you that you are under arrest, or if it becomes clear that he or she suspects you have committed a crime, you have the right to talk to a lawyer before answering any questions.

https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-when-encountering-law-enforcement-airports-and-other-ports-entry-us

[The Rebel Poet]

Mandatory body cavity groping is the price we pay to live in a civilized society.

[Brian4Liberty]

I was detained for almost 3 hours a few yrs back while driving into Canada while they searched every inch of my "packed for camping" SUV and made calls to check on my identity and what not. I didn't feel the need to scream racism, nationalism, sexism, or any ism at all. I think they were looking for drugs...which was funny cause I hardly look like I would be a drug dealer.

They expect Americans to be armed to the teeth. If you did not have a cache of weapons to declare, then they look for the hidden ones.

[brushfire]

I can only imagine how safe you must feel.

[jllundqu]

Jeez... which LPOE did you cross so that I know to avoid it!

Noose is tightening and the water is getting hotter in this frog-pot, friends.

[Ender]

Jeez... which LPOE did you cross so that I know to avoid it!

Noose is tightening and the water is getting hotter in this frog-pot, friends.

Mexican grandma who has been in the US since 1978 and was working on her citizenship was just "captured" by ICE in a Walmart parking lot here, grabbed from her family (all citizens), thrown into jail, and then taken to Mexico, and left with no money, cell phone, anything- and doesn't know a soul in Mexico.

She was never on welfare, worked like a dog all of her life, the gov was well aware of where she was and lived.

I feel so much safer now.

[phill4paul]

I don't fly because I know I would go to jail or die in their trying.

[Carlybee]

My Canadian husband is going to visit his parents next month. I told him he better have his stuff in order or he could get deported to Scandinavia. He's very blonde.

[oyarde]

They expect Americans to be armed to the teeth. If you did not have a cache of weapons to declare, then they look for the hidden ones.

I used to just break down a rifle and shotgun in a case and after they ooh and ahh over that and I tell them I am going hunting they let me through without looking at all the other stuff . Misdirection :)

[devil21]

OP, are you of hispanic or middle eastern appearance?

Unfortunately, since you are a "14th Amendment citizen" (I presume) you are subject to pretty much whatever bullshit they want to put you through at the border. You did agree to it by registering yourself as an asset of the corporate government.

[ChristianAnarchist]

OP, are you of hispanic or middle eastern appearance?

Unfortunately, since you are a "14th Amendment citizen" (I presume) you are subject to pretty much whatever bull$#@! they want to put you through at the border. You did agree to it by registering yourself as an asset of the corporate government.

Please, not the "sovereign citizen" stuff. I can shoot that down in a second simply by pointing out that the "goonerment" has no authority (I could simply put a period there and still be correct) to make a one-sided "contract" that binds a flesh and blood man. You cannot be party to a contract that you have not signed, been fully informed of the contents, and that you are mentally able to comprehend...

[devil21]

Please, not the "sovereign citizen" stuff. I can shoot that down in a second simply by pointing out that the "goonerment" has no authority (I could simply put a period there and still be correct) to make a one-sided "contract" that binds a flesh and blood man. You cannot be party to a contract that you have not signed, been fully informed of the contents, and that you are mentally able to comprehend...

nm....pearls before swine. Be sure to let us know how it goes next time you present the border agents with a government owned passport that you applied for with a government owned birth certificate and a government owned social security number.

[helmuth_hubener]

Anyway, if any of you have references to laws and cites I can use in my prepared (border crossing statement) I'm all ears...

You are not technically in the US and under the protection of US laws until you are on the other side of ICE. If they really wanted to push it and be jerks, I think they could refuse you entry for any reason (or no reason) and even legally detain you indefinitely (again, with no limitation or need for reason).

Now, that will almost surely never happen, because these guys are humans and you clearly are not a Muslim terrorist coming in to blow up the country; you are a relatively harmless codgerly life-long American citizen. So you would have to be a lot more confrontational and also unlucky to get yourself in real trouble. Probably. But in light of your complete lack of rights while in not-yet-in-the-USA limbo-land, I would tread carefully.

[The Rebel Poet]

nm....pearls before swine. Be sure to let us know how it goes next time you present the border agents with a government owned passport that you applied for with a government owned birth certificate and a government owned social security number.

How does one travel in and out of the country without a passport etc?

[devil21]

How does one travel in and out of the country without a passport etc?

That's the wrong question. The question should be how does one obtain a passport, since other countries require one for entry. The difference is that not all other countries use the corporate legal name convention that you see across all government owned documents. Cease being an employee/asset of the federal government by your own consent. Only employees (aka assets) of the federal corporate government are required to present government owned documents to obtain a passport. There are other ways to verify a given name (instead of the legal name) and other information without involving such things. Sworn affidavits is one example. Think outside the box, brother. That's not to say it is an easy process but it is possible. The easiest methods are always the most freedom stealing ;)

Most people are 14th Amendment citizens and therefore implicitly agree to whatever crap agents of the corporate government want to do. This country is still under martial law (has been since Civil War era) so there's essentially no rights to be exercised. Think about this in the context of why Dr. Paul and other libertarians advocate open borders...

[ChristianAnarchist]

nm....pearls before swine. Be sure to let us know how it goes next time you present the border agents with a government owned passport that you applied for with a government owned birth certificate and a government owned social security number.

Well, you can start be educating me on how an entity (any entity doesn't have to be our goonerment) can sign me up for something without my consent.

I'll be waiting for your response...
(oink oink...)

[The Rebel Poet]

Well, you can start be educating me on how an entity (any entity doesn't have to be our goonerment) can sign me up for something without my consent.

I'll be waiting for your response...
(oink oink...)

I'm eagerly awaiting a discussion of the gold fringe on flags and a folk etymology about the Bar.

[devil21]

I'm eagerly awaiting a discussion of the gold fringe on flags and a folk etymology about the Bar.

No reply to my answer to your question?

Haven't you ever wondered why there's gold fringe on the flag when a President holds a press conference alone but there's never gold fringe on the flag when a President holds a press conference with a foreign head of state?


Well, you can start be educating me on how an entity (any entity doesn't have to be our goonerment) can sign me up for something without my consent.

I'll be waiting for your response...
(oink oink...)

Is that not your signature on the SS card and the passport application? Seems you signed yourself up for somethings. Whether you knew what you were signing up for is where the "ignorance of the law is not an excuse" adage comes from.

[ChristianAnarchist]

Is that not your signature on the SS card and the passport application? Seems you signed yourself up for somethings. Whether you knew what you were signing up for is where the "ignorance of the law is not an excuse" adage comes from.

I did sign those things. There was nothing on them about being put in bondage to a legal fiction or giving up my rights that God granted me (can't be done). I would think that part of your belief is how "binding" these invisible contracts are but then how can they be binding if they were not fully disclosed? If they are not disclosed are they not then null and void?? If I was a minor when "signing" is the contract not void since I was not of age yet? Any understanding of contract law proves that such a contract would be null and void...

[devil21]

I did sign those things. There was nothing on them about being put in bondage to a legal fiction or giving up my rights that God granted me (can't be done). I would think that part of your belief is how "binding" these invisible contracts are but then how can they be binding if they were not fully disclosed? If they are not disclosed are they not then null and void?? If I was a minor when "signing" is the contract not void since I was not of age yet? Any understanding of contract law proves that such a contract would be null and void...

Just read this:
http://www.stopthecrime.net/docs/THE-GREAT-AMERICAN-ADVENTURE.pdf

No sense in reinventing the wheel. You can doubt the contents all you like but it has been confirmed to me by cops, attorneys and personal experience in courtrooms. You are approaching it as if we live under common law. We don't. The whole system is commercial law, the UCC.

Btw, the legal fiction was right there in front of you when you signed them. The all caps name. Just because you didn't know what it implied doesn't mean it wasn't disclosed. I'm not trying to be a dick here or talk down to you. We've pretty much all fallen for the trick at some point.

[fr33]

How does one travel in and out of the country without a passport etc?

They don't. It's just internet tough guy talk from a guy who thinks every single thing is an inside job pulled off by crisis actors. Not only is every story fake, but he also has fake theories about how you can totally get away with things.

[devil21]

They don't. It's just internet tough guy talk from a guy who thinks every single thing is an inside job pulled off by crisis actors. Not only is every story fake, but he also has fake theories about how you can totally get away with things.

I guess he^^^ didn't read my reply, just shot immediately into attack the messenger mode. I wonder if he's taken oaths?

Any way, ChristianAnarchist, oaths are contracts...Jesus said to take no oaths, yes? You never answered my original question. Are you of hispanic or middle eastern appearance?

[ChristianAnarchist]

I guess he^^^ didn't read my reply, just shot immediately into attack the messenger mode. I wonder if he's taken oaths?

Any way, @ChristianAnarchist (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=13075), oaths are contracts...Jesus said to take no oaths, yes? You never answered my original question. Are you of hispanic or middle eastern appearance?

Never taken an oath (other than boy scouts) and not hispanic or middle eastern appearance...

Still haven't stated how a contract can be valid without full disclosure or when signed by a minor (not to mention not notarized or witnessed)...

[devil21]

Read the pdf I linked. Covers all that and a lot more.

[Ender]

No reply to my answer to your question?

Haven't you ever wondered why there's gold fringe on the flag when a President holds a press conference alone but there's never gold fringe on the flag when a President holds a press conference with a foreign head of state?



Is that not your signature on the SS card and the passport application? Seems you signed yourself up for somethings. Whether you knew what you were signing up for is where the "ignorance of the law is not an excuse" adage comes from.

You realize that babies are issued SS cards in the hospital? Parents can have their newborn taken away for not cooperating.

[helmuth_hubener]

You realize that babies are issued SS cards in the hospital? Parents can have their newborn taken away for not cooperating. Exaggeration.

[devil21]

You realize that babies are issued SS cards in the hospital?

Sure. Everyone fills out the paperwork because 'that's what you do' but they never ask why. Uninformed hospital drones instructing uninformed new parents...


Parents can have their newborn taken away for not cooperating.

You know this personally or did someone tell you that? I guess fear of the CPS threat works to get people to comply. People need to stop being cowering wimps. That's what they thrive on.

[PierzStyx]

Mexican grandma who has been in the US since 1978 and was working on her citizenship was just "captured" by ICE in a Walmart parking lot here, grabbed from her family (all citizens), thrown into jail, and then taken to Mexico, and left with no money, cell phone, anything- and doesn't know a soul in Mexico.

She was never on welfare, worked like a dog all of her life, the gov was well aware of where she was and lived.

I feel so much safer now.

Construction businesses in Texas are having problems keeping up with business because their workers are being deported. Farm business in Alabama are suffering for the same reason.

Not only are we "safer" now, we are poorer too.

[PierzStyx]

Exaggeration.

Not really. If you refuse to give CPS your Social Security info they can take your kid. I don't think it is a stretch of the imagination to go from that to what Ender is saying.

[Ender]

Sure. Everyone fills out the paperwork because 'that's what you do' but they never ask why. Uninformed hospital drones instructing uninformed new parents...



You know this personally or did someone tell you that? I guess fear of the CPS threat works to get people to comply. People need to stop being cowering wimps. That's what they thrive on.

From the the forum:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?505683-Baby-of-Parents-Who-Declined-Birth-Certificate-Still-Not-Returned-in-Alabama&highlight=infant+hospital

[PierzStyx]

I guess he^^^ didn't read my reply, just shot immediately into attack the messenger mode. I wonder if he's taken oaths?

Any way, ChristianAnarchist, oaths are contracts...Jesus said to take no oaths, yes? You never answered my original question. Are you of hispanic or middle eastern appearance?

You've never read the Bible have you? Because Jesus said nothing about not making oaths or contracts but about not swearing by Heaven or Earth.


Matthew 5:

33 Again, you have heard that it was said to the ancients, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill your vows to the Lord.’

34 But I tell you not to swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne;(35) or by the earth, for it is His footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.

36 Nor should you swear by your head, for you cannot make a single hair white or black.

37 Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ Anything more comes from the evil one.

As for his skin color, should it matter? A white guy with a nice tan looks brown. Does that justify this? If he were Muslim or Hispanic would it justify it? No and no again. Because the system is racist is not a justification for the system to be racist.

[Ender]

Exaggeration.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?505683-Baby-of-Parents-Who-Declined-Birth-Certificate-Still-Not-Returned-in-Alabama&highlight=infant+hospital

[helmuth_hubener]

is where the "ignorance of the law is not an excuse" adage comes from.
Actually, it comes from an ancient Classical natural law idea that boils down to something like the following:

To claim ignorance of the Law, which all men by nature must and do know is law, can never be a valid defense or justification for wrong-doing.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?497631-What-is-the-legal-status-of-quot-Ignorance-of-the-law-is-no-excuse-quot&p=6255994&viewfull=1#post6255994

[devil21]

Not really. If you refuse to give CPS your Social Security info they can take your kid. I don't think it is a stretch of the imagination to go from that to what Ender is saying.

I also ask if you know this personally or is it just something you heard? The problem with that, legally at least, is that CPS authority is derived from the issuance of the birth certificate by the state Secretary of State, which turns the baby into property/slave of the state. Without those documents CPS has no legal authority to seize anything.


Actually, it comes from an ancient Classical natural law idea that boils down to something like the following:

To claim ignorance of the Law, which all men by nature must and do know is law, can never be a valid defense or justification for wrong-doing.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?497631-What-is-the-legal-status-of-quot-Ignorance-of-the-law-is-no-excuse-quot&p=6255994&viewfull=1#post6255994

Thanks. I didn't mean that literally as the origin though, more an example of what it means.

[Ender]

You've never read the Bible have you? Because Jesus said nothing about not making oaths or contracts but about not swearing by Heaven or Earth.



As for his skin color, should it matter? A white guy with a nice tan looks brown. Does that justify this? If he were Muslim or Hispanic would it justify it? No and no again. Because the system is racist is not a justification for the system to be racist.

Agree 1000%

[Ender]

I also ask if you know this personally or is it just something you heard? The problem with that, legally at least, is that CPS authority is derived from the issuance of the birth certificate by the state Secretary of State, which turns the baby into property/slave of the state. Without those documents CPS has no legal authority to seize anything.

And I answered this on a thread above.


From the the forum:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...nfant+hospital

[PierzStyx]

I also ask if you know this personally or is it just something you heard? The problem with that, legally at least, is that CPS authority is derived from the issuance of the birth certificate by the state Secretary of State, which turns the baby into property/slave of the state. Without those documents CPS has no legal authority to seize anything.

I suppose you'll have to take my word about it, but I've talked to lawyers about where they've seen this happen.

As for everything else you said, go ahead and pretend that it matter to those in power. Because I don't think it does.

[PierzStyx]

Actually, it comes from an ancient Classical natural law idea that boils down to something like the following:

To claim ignorance of the Law, which all men by nature must and do know is law, can never be a valid defense or justification for wrong-doing.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?497631-What-is-the-legal-status-of-quot-Ignorance-of-the-law-is-no-excuse-quot&p=6255994&viewfull=1#post6255994

But the Law there is Natural Law, the state of nature as outlined by men like Locke, which is a condition of perfect freedom and equality before men enter into a political body, i.e. anarchy. It is not the laws of the state.

[helmuth_hubener]

Not really. If you refuse to give CPS your Social Security info they can take your kid. I don't think it is a stretch of the imagination to go from that to what Ender is saying.


From the the forum:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?505683-Baby-of-Parents-Who-Declined-Birth-Certificate-Still-Not-Returned-in-Alabama&highlight=infant+hospital

Oh, I'm totally with you. It's terrible! I would not want to underplay the terribleness of these despicable people and their evil deeds. And the despicable citizens who help them, like niKKKers.

At the same time, I would not want parents or expectant parents to have an unrealistic view of the reality and thus go along with things because they believe they have to.

They do not.

You don't have to be afraid of consequences or conflict or hassles. There are none. Just say "no, thank you." There will be no issue.

Infants do not typically receive SS cards before leaving the hospital, I don't think. They are part of the birth certificate package, which one applies for and which will come in the mail, later (sometimes much later).

There are no SS representatives in hospitals.

One can definitely opt out of getting an SS card, and no one will care. You will have a much, much, infinitely much harder time opting out or slightly modifying or having any say whatsoever in any medical procedure going on. Because that's what the doctors and nurses and admin there care about; that's what they do. They really don't care about SS cards. Why should they? So it makes sense.

Pierz mentions the CPS. Yeah, if CPS is there at the hospital with you for some reason, you are already in a bad situation, brother. You could be in a world of hurt in any number of ways. Tread carefully.

But the best option of all is to stay out of the hospital! Pregnancy is not a medical condition! It's a natural state of being. Why would you want to have a baby on enemy territory? Leaving you at a massive disadvantage while in a very vulnerable state? Bad tactics. You don't need these jokers and their twisted, insane system. Opt out.

Opt out of getting an SS card.

Opt out of going to the hospital.

Just opt out.

[helmuth_hubener]

But the Law there is Natural Law, the state of nature as outlined by men like Locke, which is a condition of perfect freedom and equality before men enter into a political body, i.e. anarchy. It is not the laws of the state.

What did you think I was saying, Pierz? :p

[Ender]

Oh, I'm totally with you. It's terrible! I would not want to underplay the terribleness of these despicable people and their evil deeds. And the despicable citizens who help them, like niKKKers.

At the same time, I would not want parents or expectant parents to have an unrealistic view of the reality and thus go along with things because they believe they have to.

They do not.

You don't have to be afraid of consequences or conflict or hassles. There are none. Just say "no, thank you." There will be no issue.

Infants do not typically receive SS cards before leaving the hospital, I don't think. They are part of the birth certificate package, which one applies for and which will come in the mail, later (sometimes much later).

There are no SS representatives in hospitals.

One can definitely opt out of getting an SS card, and no one will care. You will have a much, much, infinitely much harder time opting out or slightly modifying or having any say whatsoever in any medical procedure going on. Because that's what the doctors and nurses and admin there care about; that's what they do. They really don't care about SS cards. Why should they? So it makes sense.

Pierz mentions the CPS. Yeah, if CPS is there at the hospital with you for some reason, you are already in a bad situation, brother. You could be in a world of hurt in any number of ways. Tread carefully.

But the best option of all is to stay out of the hospital! Pregnancy is not a medical condition! It's a natural state of being. Why would you want to have a baby on enemy territory? Leaving you at a massive disadvantage while in a very vulnerable state? Bad tactics. You don't need these jokers and their twisted, insane system. Opt out.

Opt out of getting an SS card.

Opt out of going to the hospital.

Just opt out.

I absolutely agree.

Brigham Young once predicted that the day would come when women could not have a baby w/o a doctor. The pioneers all thought he was crazy.

Whodda Thunk?

[devil21]

You've never read the Bible have you? Because Jesus said nothing about not making oaths or contracts but about not swearing by Heaven or Earth.

Which one? There's a bunch of them. Not sure which version you are quoting.
KJV:
Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

I interpret this as saying to only make oaths to God. In private and only between you and your deity. Never involving other men.



As for his skin color, should it matter? A white guy with a nice tan looks brown. Does that justify this? If he were Muslim or Hispanic would it justify it? No and no again. Because the system is racist is not a justification for the system to be racist.

I asked because I wanted to know if he was being profiled or not. Nothing to do with justifying anything.

----------------
My fault for sending this thread so far off topic OP. I think we can all agree with helmuth's hospital post above. I'm done.

[helmuth_hubener]

It's just too bad there's no way to "opt out" of Customs.

There, as with CPS, you'll just have to tread carefully. At least that's what I'd recommend.

[ChristianAnarchist]

I also ask if you know this personally or is it just something you heard? The problem with that, legally at least, is that CPS authority is derived from the issuance of the birth certificate by the state Secretary of State, which turns the baby into property/slave of the state. Without those documents CPS has no legal authority to seize anything.



This is not even possible. You are claiming that a human being can be made into "property" at the behest of another person. It matters not if that "other person" is the CPS or even it's parents there is no way anyone has "authority" to make another person a slave!!!

[PierzStyx]

What did you think I was saying, Pierz? :p

Not you specifically. Just making the point for those reading. We often hear the reference in movies and TV shows in regard to legislative law. But I wanted to emphasize that it isn't talking about that.

[PierzStyx]

Responses in bold


Which one? There's a bunch of them. Not sure which version you are quoting.
KJV:
Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

I interpret this as saying to only make oaths to God.

How do you get that? Jesus literally talks about not making oaths by divine things. Remember verse 33 is Jesus quoting another source saying, "You've heard such as such before BUT THIS is how it really is....

And he ends saying be honest and keep your word. You make a promise to someone, that is an oath. If anything I would argue Jesus is saying keep all your oaths, not just the "special" ones made by some holy object.

I asked because I wanted to know if he was being profiled or not. Nothing to do with justifying anything.

Ah. I understand and apologize for any overreaction. These days it seems like too many here would be arguing that as a justification.

----------------
My fault for sending this thread so far off topic OP. I think we can all agree with helmuth's hospital post above. I'm done.

[PierzStyx]

I absolutely agree.

Brigham Young once predicted that the day would come when women could not have a baby w/o a doctor. The pioneers all thought he was crazy.

Whodda Thunk?


On the other hand, your chances of losing a child in childbirth or dying yourself were much higher then too.

[Ender]

On the other hand, your chances of losing a child in childbirth or dying yourself were much higher then too.

On the other hand, doctors went on strike a few years ago in L.A. and the death rate went DOWN. ;)

[helmuth_hubener]

On the other hand, your chances of losing a child in childbirth or dying yourself were much higher then too.

That is due to science, and most emphatically not due to doctors nor due to moving the birthing process to hospitals.

The single biggest factor was the discovery of the concept of infection, and how to prevent it.

Today, hospitals are the single best place to become infected.

The second-biggest was technically not science, but technology: the forceps. Great invention. Fascinating story (example of how to protect "intellectual property w/o patents and w/o the state).

Science (and technology, like the forceps) lowered the death rate, not doctors. Doctors are just technicians. Nothing more. You could go back in time and hire a million additional doctors in 1850, and would it change the birthing mortality rate? Not really. Maybe a little. Maybe it would raise it. France or somewhere had their death rates go through the roof when maternity wards caught on and before the discovery of infection. Let's have a crowded factory-farm-style birthing factory with six screaming women in each bed(!!) and one doctor delivers baby after baby all day and never washes his hands! Whee!

Today's hospitals do similarly stupid things. Some of them we'll probably only figure out how stupid they were 20 or 50 years from now (DES, anyone? Want a fetal X-Ray?).

No, modern home birth, far away from the malignant super-bug resistant bacteria that blanket all hospitals and have become irradicable, and with advanced technology just minutes away for backup, should heroic measures be necessary, that is the safest and best way to do it for at least 80% of women (healthy, normal, no C-section, not crazy and wanting an elective C-section...). You take the best elements available, from all sources, from all the knowledge we've acquired throughout history.

If you'd like to read more, you could check out the book Get Me Out!, a history of child birth. It is not advocating for home birth by any means, but the facts just kind of speak for themselves.

[ChristianAnarchist]

I also ask if you know this personally or is it just something you heard? The problem with that, legally at least, is that CPS authority is derived from the issuance of the birth certificate by the state Secretary of State, which turns the baby into property/slave of the state. Without those documents CPS has no legal authority to seize anything.



Hello, Devil21, I'm waiting for you to answer the previous post... HOW does one gain authority to change a baby into property?? Who has such authority?? Not the CPS, not the parents... Only God (the creator of the baby) can possibly claim to have such authority. I don't see where God has determined that any person is property so how can any man or fiction claim that a human is property??

It's really time to put this "sovereign man" stuff to rest. It's nonsense!

[euphemia]

Wow, CA, that stinks. At least they didn't try to pat you down because you were wearing an underwire bra.

Sorry, it's a little tense. You asked for advice, and that's all I can tell you.

[devil21]

Hello, Devil21, I'm waiting for you to answer the previous post... HOW does one gain authority to change a baby into property?? Who has such authority?? Not the CPS, not the parents... Only God (the creator of the baby) can possibly claim to have such authority. I don't see where God has determined that any person is property so how can any man or fiction claim that a human is property??

You're getting into very wonky legal territory with that question. Have you read the pdf I linked to previously yet? If not, READ IT FIRST THEN ASK QUESTIONS. I'll give a short Cliff Notes answer but I doubt much of it will make sense without proper foundation. Study the UCC. The birth certificate creates a TRUST, with the human child being the contents (the property) of the TRUST and the ALL CAPS NAME being the account name of the TRUST. The SS# is a tracking number of the property of the TRUST. The UCC is the law of maritime commerce and is what governs all commercial transactions, which is pretty much what everything is today. It is also essentially "pirate law" and "salvage law". If property is "lost at sea", it can be claimed as salvage and becomes the property of the salvager unless and until the rightful owner reclaims (redeems) it. When the BC trust is not claimed by the parent or the adult child, the property of the TRUST (child) becomes the property of the salvager, the state. The state then uses your status as a slave (your energy and ability to pay taxes) as collateral against debt issued by the bankers. Guess what? Everyone with a BC was claimed as property of the state. All states have UCC statutes and these UCC statutes are being systematically enacted in every country. This is essentially the main goal of the NWO, to turn everyone into legal slaves for the banker's benefit.

In addition to reading that pdf, also watch Jordan Maxwell videos. He lays it all out very well.



It's really time to put this "sovereign man" stuff to rest. It's nonsense!

No man is more enslaved than he who falsely believes he is free.

That you are a slave, Neo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4zICmyuNvs

(eta: why do you think Congress, most Presidents and most of TPTB are/were lawyers? Because they know the truth and they are there to manage the slaves!)

[Ender]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw88MWoqenQ

[ChristianAnarchist]

You're getting into very wonky legal territory with that question. Have you read the pdf I linked to previously yet? If not, READ IT FIRST THEN ASK QUESTIONS. I'll give a short Cliff Notes answer but I doubt much of it will make sense without proper foundation. Study the UCC. The birth certificate creates a TRUST, with the human child being the contents (the property) of the TRUST and the ALL CAPS NAME being the account name of the TRUST. The SS# is a tracking number of the property of the TRUST. The UCC is the law of maritime commerce and is what governs all commercial transactions, which is pretty much what everything is today. It is also essentially "pirate law" and "salvage law". If property is "lost at sea", it can be claimed as salvage and becomes the property of the salvager unless and until the rightful owner reclaims (redeems) it. When the BC trust is not claimed by the parent or the adult child, the property of the TRUST (child) becomes the property of the salvager, the state. The state then uses your status as a slave (your energy and ability to pay taxes) as collateral against debt issued by the bankers. Guess what? Everyone with a BC was claimed as property of the state. All states have UCC statutes and these UCC statutes are being systematically enacted in every country. This is essentially the main goal of the NWO, to turn everyone into legal slaves for the banker's benefit.

In addition to reading that pdf, also watch Jordan Maxwell videos. He lays it all out very well.



No man is more enslaved than he who falsely believes he is free.

That you are a slave, Neo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4zICmyuNvs

(eta: why do you think Congress, most Presidents and most of TPTB are/were lawyers? Because they know the truth and they are there to manage the slaves!)

Yeah, I don't NEED to read it to see the glaring errors... Number one, my birth cert is in proper capitalization, NOT all caps. Number two, NO ONE has proper "authority" to declare a living flesh and blood human "property" unless that "person" is the one who created the human (that's God).

I really don't need to go any further than these two points. If you care to explain to me where the authority comes from to declare one of Gods creation a "property", go ahead...

[devil21]

Yeah, I don't NEED to read it to see the glaring errors... Number one, my birth cert is in proper capitalization, NOT all caps. Number two, NO ONE has proper "authority" to declare a living flesh and blood human "property" unless that "person" is the one who created the human (that's God).

You still haven't read the pdf have you? There are so many fine points to the topic that it's difficult to lay it all out in a few paragraphs, as I warned. Yes, your Certificate of Live Birth may be in correct spelling. The Birth Certificate is derived from the Certificate of Live Birth. They are two separate instruments. The COLB creates the TRUST through the signatures of the mother (deliverer of trust property), the hospital rep (receiver of trust property) and the state registrar (custodian/trustee of trust property). You will likely NEVER see the Birth Certificate, only possess a copy of the Certificate of Live Birth. The COLB may or may not be in all caps. The BC most certainly is in all caps. Regarding your second point, see below.



I really don't need to go any further than these two points. If you care to explain to me where the authority comes from to declare one of Gods creation a "property", go ahead...

It comes from that guy over in the Vatican. You know, the one who essentially claims to be God-on-Earth. One of the Popes many years ago declared, by papal bull, the whole earth and everything on it to be the Vatican's property. Can't remember off hand which one it was. Maybe Pope Nicholas in 1452? You should google Cestui Que 1666 for additional further information. These things persist today!

More info: http://ili.nativeweb.org/sdrm_art.html

[ChristianAnarchist]

You still haven't read the pdf have you? There are so many fine points to the topic that it's difficult to lay it all out in a few paragraphs, as I warned. Yes, your Certificate of Live Birth may be in correct spelling. The Birth Certificate is derived from the Certificate of Live Birth. They are two separate instruments. The COLB creates the TRUST through the signatures of the mother (deliverer of trust property), the hospital rep (receiver of trust property) and the state registrar (custodian/trustee of trust property). You will likely NEVER see the Birth Certificate, only possess a copy of the Certificate of Live Birth. The COLB may or may not be in all caps. The BC most certainly is in all caps. Regarding your second point, see below.



It comes from that guy over in the Vatican. You know, the one who essentially claims to be God-on-Earth. One of the Popes many years ago declared, by papal bull, the whole earth and everything on it to be the Vatican's property. Can't remember off hand which one it was. Maybe Pope Nicholas in 1452? You should google Cestui Que 1666 for additional further information. These things persist today!

More info: http://ili.nativeweb.org/sdrm_art.html

So you believe this pope has the authority to declare people as property??

Sorry, you still haven't convinced me that there's any way for people to be declared to be anyone's property with any more authority than if I declared Trump to be my property...

[Ender]

You're both right.

No one has the authority to claim someone else as property; we are all children of God.

That said, the State claims you as property before you are even born. The marriage license is a contract between 3 entities: you, your SO, and the State. You are legally bound to the State when your parents are married, grandparents, great grandparents etc.

Legally does NOT mean lawfully, but that is an issue not understood by most, in today's world.

We are literally living in The Matrix.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8eKxVCFoUk

[devil21]

So you believe this pope has the authority to declare people as property??

What I believe doesn't matter one bit. Those in control believe it and that's all that matters. They spend much energy, time and resources to ensure it continues and even expands to cover the entirety of the planet and everyone on it. Most of the energy and resources expended come from the slaves, however. Congress will work a grand total of 8 days in April. You will work how many days? Whose energy is being expended??



Sorry, you still haven't convinced me that there's any way for people to be declared to be anyone's property with any more authority than if I declared Trump to be my property...

A lack of being convinced doesn't make it any less true, unfortunately.

[ChristianAnarchist]

What I believe doesn't matter one bit. Those in control believe it and that's all that matters. They spend much energy, time and resources to ensure it continues and even expands to cover the entirety of the planet and everyone on it. Most of the energy and resources expended come from the slaves, however. Congress will work a grand total of 8 days in April. You will work how many days? Whose energy is being expended??

A lack of being convinced doesn't make it any less true, unfortunately.

Well, is it "true" or isn't it (that someone has authority to declare a human to be property)? You state what you believe isn't important but what those in control believe. Why do you think they have "control"?? It's because people BELIEVE!! The true power is still with "we the People"!! If even 20% will STOP believing, those in "control" will LOSE control! They have NO authority to declare someone as property and YOU need to declare it so instead of trying to preach to others that they have something they do not. Indeed YOU are part of the problem. YOU are believing they have "authority" even though God (your Creator) tells you otherwise.

Time to wake up now...

[Ender]

Well, is it "true" or isn't it (that someone has authority to declare a human to be property)? You state what you believe isn't important but what those in control believe. Why do you think they have "control"?? It's because people BELIEVE!! The true power is still with "we the People"!! If even 20% will STOP believing, those in "control" will LOSE control! They have NO authority to declare someone as property and YOU need to declare it so instead of trying to preach to others that they have something they do not. Indeed YOU are part of the problem. YOU are believing they have "authority" even though God (your Creator) tells you otherwise.

Time to wake up now...

Post #78

[ChristianAnarchist]

You're both right.

No one has the authority to claim someone else as property; we are all children of God.

That said, the State claims you as property before you are even born. The marriage license is a contract between 3 entities: you, your SO, and the State. You are legally bound to the State when your parents are married, grandparents, great grandparents etc.

Legally does NOT mean lawfully, but that is an issue not understood by most, in today's world.

We are literally living in The Matrix.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8eKxVCFoUk

I will quote a very wise woman named Somni 451 - "Truth is singular - it's "versions" are mis-truths"...

We are not "both right". Either someone has authority to declare a human to be property or they do not. If they do not then if they claim they do they are involved in fraud.

Which is it? Property owner or fraudster?

[Ender]

I will quote a very wise woman named Somni 451 - "Truth is singular - it's "versions" are mis-truths"...

We are not "both right". Either someone has authority to declare a human to be property or they do not. If they do not then if they claim they do they are involved in fraud.

Which is it? Property owner or fraudster?

It's

THE MATRIX

[Anti Federalist]

Sadly we all, as usual, end up arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

There's a way to shut this down, tomorrow.

If we all, myself included, had the guts.

[devil21]

Well, is it "true" or isn't it (that someone has authority to declare a human to be property)? You state what you believe isn't important but what those in control believe. Why do you think they have "control"?? It's because people BELIEVE!! The true power is still with "we the People"!! If even 20% will STOP believing, those in "control" will LOSE control! They have NO authority to declare someone as property and YOU need to declare it so instead of trying to preach to others that they have something they do not. Indeed YOU are part of the problem. YOU are believing they have "authority" even though God (your Creator) tells you otherwise.

Time to wake up now...

I'm wide awake. Why do you think I'm sharing this information? I've spent a lot of time figuring out how the matrix works. Again, what I believe doesn't matter. Learn the system and share the information, like I have done in this thread for you. You can't expect people to want to free themselves when they don't even realize that they are captured.

[Ender]

I'm wide awake. Why do you think I'm sharing this information? I've spent a lot of time figuring out how the matrix works. Again, what I believe doesn't matter. Learn the system and share the information, like I have done in this thread for you. You can't expect people to want to free themselves when they don't even realize that they are captured.

Exactly my point.

[phill4paul]

Combine TSA with Health and Human Services and just think of the savings!

https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cartoonstock.com/health-beauty-tsa-radiologist-radiology-faxes-x_rays-kkin312_low.jpg

http://www.cartoonistgroup.com/properties/varvel/art_images/cg4cea72c274c36.jpg

http://www.cartoonistgroup.com/properties/varvel/art_images/cg53e2ef822069f.jpg

[ChristianAnarchist]

I'm wide awake. Why do you think I'm sharing this information? I've spent a lot of time figuring out how the matrix works. Again, what I believe doesn't matter. Learn the system and share the information, like I have done in this thread for you. You can't expect people to want to free themselves when they don't even realize that they are captured.

The only problem is you are sharing false information... You cannot just declare someone to be "property"!!! You have not shown authority to do so because there IS no authority...

Are you trying to say that the "authority" is because we live in a matrix?? Even in the movie the premise was that the goons (machine) HAD NO AUTHORITY to enslave everyone... What they were doing was in violation of rights. Not even the Matrix authors had AUTHORITY to declare everyone property. They used force to imprison everyone (that's not the same).

[qh4dotcom]

Here's my suggestion to you:

Next time you come back to the US from a foreign country and need to make a flight connection at the port of entry....try to fly through the Miami airport.

Very often at MIA you can just grab your bags and head out without having to talk with a Customs agent nor give him the required declaration. Very often the only person you need to talk to is the immigration officer.

[devil21]

The only problem is you are sharing false information... You cannot just declare someone to be "property"!!! You have not shown authority to do so because there IS no authority...

Are you trying to say that the "authority" is because we live in a matrix?? Even in the movie the premise was that the goons (machine) HAD NO AUTHORITY to enslave everyone... What they were doing was in violation of rights. Not even the Matrix authors had AUTHORITY to declare everyone property. They used force to imprison everyone (that's not the same).

I'm not sure why you're blaming me for the way the system works. I know this information can be jarring at first but you're getting mad at the wrong person. I'm just telling you how it is. Whether you believe the info to be true is up to you but I can assure you that it is well based in history, facts and research. Best of luck to you, ChristianAnarchist.

[devil21]

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/secretoath.htm

This is a recent Chinese think tank white paper regarding birth registrations. Read it with a discerning eye:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990197/


Birth registration (BR), a permanent and official record of a child’s existence, is the process by which a child’s birth is recorded by a particular government department. According to the 1989 United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC), a child should be registered immediately after its birth.

Among the international community, protection of human rights, especially the rights of vulnerable groups, including children, has attracted increased attention. Children are an especially vulnerable group who lack the awareness and ability to protect themselves, and whose rights are often violated by adults and society as a whole. Protection of children’s rights has become the most serious problem among the world’s vulnerable groups, and assurance of their protection can help in the sustainable development of most of the world’s population (Jiang et al., 2004; Li and Zhu, 2005).

BR [birth registration] is a basic right of each child and a fundamental step towards acquiring citizenship and nationality, as well as realizing other human rights. Registering a child is not only the duty of the child’s guardian, but also the public responsibility of the government (Liu, 2004). A child without BR cannot prove his or her legal existence before the law; consequently, his or her survival, protection, participation, and development in society will be negatively affected

It's for the children?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC3UeluxYgo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3RYTsz0EmU

[ChristianAnarchist]

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/secretoath.htm

This is a recent Chinese think tank white paper regarding birth registrations. Read it with a discerning eye:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990197/



It's for the children?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC3UeluxYgo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3RYTsz0EmU

You can post "sources" saying that people can be declared "property" all you want, it doesn't make it so. God says we are his, and no one has greater rights than another therefore NO ONE can declare someone to be property. Not me, not you, not the Vatican, and not the UCC!!

The whole idea goes against a belief in God as our Creator and rights being granted by Him. If you want to believe these crazy individuals, I can't stop you but it's time you move on from this thread and post your beliefs elsewhere because so far you have NOT posted any true "AUTHORITY" for declaring people to be property and you never will because it does NOT exist...

[PierzStyx]

That is due to science, and most emphatically not due to doctors nor due to moving the birthing process to hospitals.

The single biggest factor was the discovery of the concept of infection, and how to prevent it.

Today, hospitals are the single best place to become infected.

The second-biggest was technically not science, but technology: the forceps. Great invention. Fascinating story (example of how to protect "intellectual property w/o patents and w/o the state).

Science (and technology, like the forceps) lowered the death rate, not doctors. Doctors are just technicians. Nothing more.

Sure, in the same way that nuclear engineers are just mechanical technicians.

Science and machinery are useless without those with the extensive knowledge and skill to use them correctly.

In other words, without doctors none of the rest of it matters. You've read a book about how to keep infections down? Fantastic. Still doesn't mean I'm going to trust you with much more than popping a pimple.

[Ender]

You can post "sources" saying that people can be declared "property" all you want, it doesn't make it so. God says we are his, and no one has greater rights than another therefore NO ONE can declare someone to be property. Not me, not you, not the Vatican, and not the UCC!!

The whole idea goes against a belief in God as our Creator and rights being granted by Him. If you want to believe these crazy individuals, I can't stop you but it's time you move on from this thread and post your beliefs elsewhere because so far you have NOT posted any true "AUTHORITY" for declaring people to be property and you never will because it does NOT exist...

I think you are misunderstanding what devil21 is saying.

My POV is that he is not arguing that with you- what he is saying is that the STATE says it owns you and has legal force to take you down if you disagree. This does NOT overtake God's laws but it DOES make life a bit dangerous if you decide you have full authority over yourself and the State disagrees.

As thus my analogy to The Matrix.

We live in The Matrix right now and if one tries to fight it they become surrounded by agents who will quickly recharge the Matrix battery or do you in. If you decide to "pull the plug" you may find yourself in the Real World but still in turmoil.

[CPUd]

You can post "sources" saying that people can be declared "property" all you want, it doesn't make it so. God says we are his, and no one has greater rights than another therefore NO ONE can declare someone to be property. Not me, not you, not the Vatican, and not the UCC!!

The whole idea goes against a belief in God as our Creator and rights being granted by Him. If you want to believe these crazy individuals, I can't stop you but it's time you move on from this thread and post your beliefs elsewhere because so far you have NOT posted any true "AUTHORITY" for declaring people to be property and you never will because it does NOT exist...

You should probably just watch some of those Jordan Maxwell videos. A lot of his info and research came from the ET he was having a long term sexual relationship with, so you know he's legit.

[Anti Federalist]

You're both right.

No one has the authority to claim someone else as property; we are all children of God.

That said, the State claims you as property before you are even born. The marriage license is a contract between 3 entities: you, your SO, and the State. You are legally bound to the State when your parents are married, grandparents, great grandparents etc.

Legally does NOT mean lawfully, but that is an issue not understood by most, in today's world.

We are literally living in The Matrix.

This, exactly.

You own nothing in this system, not even your own body.

We all can assert ourselves "free men" all day long...and it becomes kind of pointless when the state declares it has the right to grope your genitalia whenever it feels like it.

[devil21]

I think you are misunderstanding what devil21 is saying.

My POV is that he is not arguing that with you- what he is saying is that the STATE says it owns you and has legal force to take you down if you disagree. This does NOT overtake God's laws but it DOES make life a bit dangerous if you decide you have full authority over yourself and the State disagrees.

As thus my analogy to The Matrix.

We live in The Matrix right now and if one tries to fight it they become surrounded by agents who will quickly recharge the Matrix battery or do you in. If you decide to "pull the plug" you may find yourself in the Real World but still in turmoil.

Thank you. I am only sharing information. Do what you will with it.

If you read the Chinese link above, it's clear that this transcends beyond any particular government/state. It's global and is the real aim of globalists.

[helmuth_hubener]

Sure, in the same way that nuclear engineers are just mechanical technicians.

Science and machinery are useless without those with the extensive knowledge and skill to use them correctly. In many (most!) cases their "knowledge" is not that extensive. And certainly not deep. About an inch deep. Believe me. To build a nuclear power plant? Smarts required. To operate a plant? Homer Simpson.


In other words, without doctors none of the rest of it matters. You've read a book about how to keep infections down? Fantastic. Still doesn't mean I'm going to trust you with much more than popping a pimple. About 90% of the time, that's all that's required! Just don't infect the mom, by {fanfare} washing your hands! And don't trust me, trust yourself. That's the whole point! Trust yourself to find the sink and operate the hot water lever and soap dispenser correctly.

[ChristianAnarchist]

I think you are misunderstanding what @devil21 (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=2727) is saying.

My POV is that he is not arguing that with you- what he is saying is that the STATE says it owns you and has legal force to take you down if you disagree. This does NOT overtake God's laws but it DOES make life a bit dangerous if you decide you have full authority over yourself and the State disagrees.

As thus my analogy to The Matrix.

We live in The Matrix right now and if one tries to fight it they become surrounded by agents who will quickly recharge the Matrix battery or do you in. If you decide to "pull the plug" you may find yourself in the Real World but still in turmoil.

I am very aware of what the positions of the "sovereign man" argument is as I was once also fooled by that nonsense which is why I feel very obligated to straighten out people who promote it (especially when they try to derail my thread with it).

We are not simply talking about a criminal organization (the goonerment) declaring that they will hurt you if you don't agree to give them money (it's not in dispute that the goons DO this). What IS in dispute is that somehow there are magic words that you can say using the magic code in the UCC which will somehow convince these same criminal goons that you are somehow "free" from their criminal violence...

You cannot free yourself from goon violence by "understanding" the UCC and saving yourself from goon violence by filing some paperwork. I've seen many good men get put in prison after they said the magic words and filed the magic paperwork (Oh, but of course these promoters will say the said the "wrong" magic words and filed the "wrong" paperwork)...

It's a very dangerous and deceitful fraud to think that UCC binds you and UCC will free you. UCC is BouwlSheit!!! God is your creator and he gave "ownership" to each man to do with as he wants (freewill). Violent men (goons) use their violent association (goonerment) to VIOLATE the rights of men and then LIE about having some fake "authority" to do so. UCC is nothing but fiction written my men to fool other men. If you study it to make you "free" you are studying the WRONG book...

[devil21]

Believe what you will ChristianAnarchist but I assure you that exercising the correct procedure and using the right words does indeed work. I won't bother telling the story of how I know it since you have not even tried to understand the information that I've presented so far. Hopefully the other 1000+ page viewers on this thread since we started conversing has found more open-minded readers.

Btw, the book you are referring to (bible) is the handbook to navigating the system. It is the key to the real freedom that you think you have but actually do not. No one will tell you that, however. The UCC derives from the bible. They are interconnected. Transcend the UCC with the bible as your guide!

I am done for real this time. Best of luck on your next border crossing. Watch out for your cornhole.

[navy-vet]

Mexican grandma who has been in the US since 1978 and was working on her citizenship was just "captured" by ICE in a Walmart parking lot here, grabbed from her family (all citizens), thrown into jail, and then taken to Mexico, and left with no money, cell phone, anything- and doesn't know a soul in Mexico.

She was never on welfare, worked like a dog all of her life, the gov was well aware of where she was and lived.

I feel so much safer now.
She must have been denied amnesty by Reagan?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986

[Ender]

She must have been denied amnesty by Reagan?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986

ICE/Gov knew where she was for years- why a sudden assault in a Walmart parking lot?

[ChristianAnarchist]

Believe what you will ChristianAnarchist but I assure you that exercising the correct procedure and using the right words does indeed work. I won't bother telling the story of how I know it since you have not even tried to understand the information that I've presented so far. Hopefully the other 1000+ page viewers on this thread since we started conversing has found more open-minded readers.

Btw, the book you are referring to is the handbook to navigating the system. It is the key to the real freedom that you think you have but actually do not. No one will tell you that, however.

I am done for real this time. Best of luck on your next border crossing. Watch out for your cornhole.

Thanks for the base comment. It suits you. As to "what I know" I've been down that path already and I know all about it (which is why I know exactly the point to raise that you cannot answer). You think you have the handbook to all the answers but you will find out eventually that you don't because someday you are going to chant your magic phrase and the goons are going to laugh in your face. How can you possibly believe that "UCC" means anything to the goonerment and their goonsquad? Of course it means nothing. It's empty words on paper that the goons choose to observe or not observe, depending on their mood.

Good luck to you. I sincerely hope you don't get hurt using this flawed doctrine.

[CPUd]

Here's a group trying to use the courthouse to convene a "common law grand jury" in 2014. The commissioners tell them they are free to use public meeting rooms as long as they put in a request through the proper channels, and the county commissioners cannot simply order the court to give them a room. Then at 9:00, some dude tries to "educate" them about the fringy flag.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg4KlVQo6tc


This group eventually did find some dumbass on the real grand jury to file "true bills" from the common law grand jury against the prosecutor and some people on the school board. He also believed in magic words and powerful papers:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CodSMMgUMAAmY62.jpg


Interestingly enough, when the prosecutor got him on the stand, he suddenly forgot all that sovereign stuff:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbwFyC9CLrY

[devil21]

Here's what's funny about this thread.

ChristianAnarchist's opening post:


Anyway, if any of you have references to laws and cites I can use in my prepared (border crossing statement) I'm all ears...

ChristianAnarchist's final post:

It's empty words on paper that the goons choose to observe or not observe, depending on their mood.

[helmuth_hubener]

In the end all laws and regulations are at risk of becoming empty words on paper at short or no notice, should moods turn inhospitable.

Caution is warranted.

[navy-vet]

She must have been denied amnesty by Reagan?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986

If I was in their place, I might prefer taking someone down in an area outside of their domain too. I was just wondering why they would renounce her amnesty? Unless she was dealing drugs or something....

[ChristianAnarchist]

Here's what's funny about this thread.

ChristianAnarchist's opening post:


ChristianAnarchist's final post:

Yes indeed. Life is a bit of a contradiction. Words do have meaning but the listener doesn't have to react in any special way because they heard some specific words. I was mainly looking for "laws" (or court decisions) regarding my being able to record in there (it appears their "laws" do not allow that). Since I do not see any easy way to get back into the country that avoids going through "their" confined areas I was looking for "tools" to use against them. So far the best "tool" was the one provided by the goons themselves when they provided me a copy of their "authority" which clearly stated they could "inspect and search" and nothing else was listed. I used those words against them and stated that I was in front of them and they can "inspect and search" me and then they must let me go because they have no other "jurisdiction"...

Of course these goons "believe" in their words written on paper even though I do not. Using their own rules against them is the best way I know to deal with them. I could try "magic sovereign man" words but I've never seen them work in any consistent way. The very few limited times I've seen them produce results it looked to me like the "officers" were simply frustrated trying to deal with what appeared to them to be mentally unstable people and they probably thought it was not worth their trouble to deal with them so they let them go.

Anyway, to anyone reading this - use the sovereign man arguments at your own peril. I wish you the best in any conflict with the goons and if you get lucky with those tools more power to you. Just realize that goons have no limits on what they can do when they feel like no one is looking...

[devil21]

^^^^^^^^
90% of having authority/power is projecting it. It's not enough to recite words and hope for a good outcome. You have to know WHAT you're reciting and WHY you are reciting it. Confidence in your argument is always the key. Most of the instances of failed arguments, like CPUd posted, are because the people reciting the arguments don't truly know WHAT and WHY they are reciting and therefore are easy to manipulate by those that do KNOW what they're reciting. I've watched many videos on "magic words" and there's almost always some point where the reciter screwed up and fell for various word tricks. It was because they didn't truly know what they were reciting and why. My point is that you asked in your OP for cites but that's only a small part of the equation. You have to know WHY you are reciting it. That is your projection of authority/power. I tried to give you the starting point for building the knowledge of WHAT/WHY but you dismissed it. Will that always protect you from overreach? Of course not but the alternative is to remain a captive sheep.

[TheTexan]

I got touched today. It was exhilarating!

Would recommend to a friend. 5 out of 5 stars.

[The Rebel Poet]

Just saw this ad on this thread:
https://secure.img-cdn.mediaplex.com/0/31756/230290/3January_horizontal_static_728x90.gif?mpqs=&mpssl=1&mpvc=

[ChristianAnarchist]

^^^^^^^^
90% of having authority/power is projecting it. It's not enough to recite words and hope for a good outcome. You have to know WHAT you're reciting and WHY you are reciting it. Confidence in your argument is always the key. Most of the instances of failed arguments, like CPUd posted, are because the people reciting the arguments don't truly know WHAT and WHY they are reciting and therefore are easy to manipulate by those that do KNOW what they're reciting. I've watched many videos on "magic words" and there's almost always some point where the reciter screwed up and fell for various word tricks. It was because they didn't truly know what they were reciting and why. My point is that you asked in your OP for cites but that's only a small part of the equation. You have to know WHY you are reciting it. That is your projection of authority/power. I tried to give you the starting point for building the knowledge of WHAT/WHY but you dismissed it. Will that always protect you from overreach? Of course not but the alternative is to remain a captive sheep.

You gave me a bunch of sources to follow that will lead me nowhere. I gave you a simple question that you have yet to answer...

HOW does any so-called "law" (UCC) take a child of God and turn them into "property"?? It's a simple question and instead of posting a bunch of guys giving hours long "research" - how about just answering the question?? I'm still waiting...

(but don't feel too bad because I've NEVER gotten an answer to this question)

[The Rebel Poet]

I got touched today. It was exhilarating!

Would recommend to a friend. 5 out of 5 stars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjCdznA4sgY

[devil21]

You gave me a bunch of sources to follow that will lead me nowhere. I gave you a simple question that you have yet to answer...

HOW does any so-called "law" (UCC) take a child of God and turn them into "property"?? It's a simple question and instead of posting a bunch of guys giving hours long "research" - how about just answering the question?? I'm still waiting...

(but don't feel too bad because I've NEVER gotten an answer to this question)

Perhaps you should ask those that believe it to be true and enforce it as if it is true, that question instead of asking me. I didn't decide it and I don't enforce it. Not sure why you're attacking me over it. I'm just the messenger. Either you think the words matter or you don't. You can't have it both ways. Pretty sure this thread has run it's course though so I'll give you the last word. Choose them wisely.

[fr33]

I guess he^^^ didn't read my reply, just shot immediately into attack the messenger mode. I wonder if he's taken oaths?


According to you 911, Sandy Hook, and the Boston Marathon bombing were all inside jobs (and many many more), but reciting certain words to a judge will totally make them tremble in fear and get you off the hook from a traffic violation. I guarantee you don't practice what you preach outside of the internet. You have NEVER visited foreign country without a passport (military service not included).

[devil21]

According to you 911, Sandy Hook, and the Boston Marathon bombing were all inside jobs (and many many more), but reciting certain words to a judge will totally make them tremble in fear and get you off the hook from a traffic violation. I guarantee you don't practice what you preach outside of the internet. You have NEVER visited foreign country without a passport (military service not included).

You don't actually read the threads you comment on, do you?

eta: fr33 didn't read page 2 where I wrote that asking about traveling without a passport is the wrong question. just obtain a passport using different legal means such as affidavits and leave the govt paperwork at home. later in this thread fr33 continues to strawman attack something I never wrote. disinfo trolls never actually read the threads they attempt to derail. classic example. ive posted info in this thread thats only supposed to be known by the "privileged class", not the rank-and-file.

[ChristianAnarchist]

Perhaps you should ask those that believe it to be true and enforce it as if it is true, that question instead of asking me. I didn't decide it and I don't enforce it. Not sure why you're attacking me over it. I'm just the messenger. Either you think the words matter or you don't. You can't have it both ways. Pretty sure this thread has run it's course though so I'll give you the last word. Choose them wisely.

If I ask a "judge" or other goon about what power in the UCC makes me a slave they would laugh at me. I'm asking you because you are here and you are the one who decided to promote that idea. You still haven't answered, have you...?

[ChristianAnarchist]

If I ask a "judge" or other goon about what power in the UCC makes me a slave they would laugh at me. I'm asking you because you are here and you are the one who decided to promote that idea. You still haven't answered, have you...?

Thanks for the neg rep Devil21. Your reason for the neg rep is flawed however (just like your position). You neg repped me for not looking at your links but I've make it clear to you that I have no need to visit them and indeed I will not waste my time!! You can't add a burden for ME to try to listen to your nonsense. I've put a simple question to you and you continue to refuse to answer it so you are simply acting like a troll now. If you are NOT a troll then answer the question and prove your point to me and everyone else...


(maybe I should give you neg rep for being a troll...)

[PaulConventionWV]

I spent 2.5 hours in cuffs at EWR in '13 because of my empty holster. I refused to talk. They called in FBI, TSA, PA police... bomb squad onto the plane I was on (a show item just to put it to me), and brought in parameds in hope they could get me into a mental institution for "observtaion". One goon wearing a vest and trying to look all "tactical" told me he would have shot me on the spot and that nobody would have questioned it. The other cops were just a bunch of dopes doing what they are told. The only one decent was the supervisor, a sergeant. He finally got to practically begging me to answer the paramedic's questions so we could all go home.

These people are the enablers of evil.

Classic bad cop, good cop routine.

[CPUd]

Hey guys, did you know you don't need a driver's license to operate a car? Just tell them you are traveling instead of driving and if they ask you to get out of the car, just tell them you do not consent!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p7lndGi-sI

[unknown]

I'm coming back into the good 'ole USA (you know - the "land of the free") and the immigration people decide to pull me aside for secondary screening. Even with my extensive study of how to handle such situations I did not handle it as well as I should have. They asked me to go into another room where they had a counter and several goons and some waiting chairs for all the "mother-rapers and father-rapers".

After waiting at least 10 minutes they called me up and the very first thing I said was "why am I being detained". That drew a smirk from the goon and when I saw the look he was giving me I stated "you know where this is going". I informed him that I was not going to answer any of his questions and I wanted to know what reason they "detained" me. They would not give me one (of course) and stated that they were "doing their job" (of course I stated that the Nazis said the same thing). I asked them what authority they have and they stated some law and I asked for a copy of it (which they actually provided). When I looked at it it only said they have authority to "inspect and search". I told them (visibly angry by now and raising my voice in front of all the other rapers) I emptied all my pockets into my bags and told them here I am, inspect me and search me and let me go on my way because they are detaining me for an investigation which is outside their jurisdiction. They asked me a few more questions and I firmly told them I'm not answering their questions and to either charge me or let me go. I even turned my back to the desk and held my hands behind my back for the cuffs.

During the course of 20 minutes or so I asked them several times if I'm free to go and at one time the goon said "you can try" in a threatening manor. They were holding my passport (which I would have let them keep if necessary and apply for another). At one point the goon told the supervisor goon who was watching over his shoulder that "I got nothing" and some reference to the fact that he was not the one who flagged me for secondary screening. At that point they decided to go talk to my wife who was waiting for me outside (in spite of the fact that I had texted her to go out of the screening area) and pulled her in to talk to me (as I was visibly angry and making many references to the police state). I did not appreciate them involving her (of course she answered all their questions in spite of my many instructions to never answer goons questions).

After they had their egos stroked by my wife answering their questions they let me go (which they were going to do anyway because the goon said he got nothing on me).

I've had a long discussion with my wife and from now on she goes through ahead of me and after she's through I will go to the desk with some form of prepared statement on paper saying why I'm exercising my right to remain silent and why their own stupid "law" says their only duty is to "inspect and search" (which I will reluctantly allow to get through their goon point). I'm also planning to record the entire event even though they have signs up saying to can't and I will provide the supreme court ruling that says I can (once I find it).

Anyway, if any of you have references to laws and cites I can use in my prepared (border crossing statement) I'm all ears...

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuckkkkkkkkkk!

You got more balls than me bro.

I would love to conduct myself as you did but when I'm placed in that situation (and I have been once or twice), I start "yes sir-ing no sir-ing" like a little bitch.

I'll be honest, I get scared shitless.

[fr33]

You don't actually read the threads you comment on, do you?

I sure do. You don't actually practice what you preach, do you? You didn't travel to foreign countries without a passport. You didn't do anything you suggested.