Is Pence a neoconservative mole?

[Brian4Liberty]

The selection of Pence as VP was a bit controversial, and a concession to the neoconservative lobby. It's worth noting that he was also seen as favorable to the evangelical Christian lobby. A two for one VP pick.

It's interesting to see that the linchpin in the Flynn resignation is Pence. We know that many in the intelligence community were unhappy with Flynn, and we also know that Pence's neoconservative allies like Bill Kristol were also in opposition to Flynn. With the majority of pundits and media telling us that the essential reason for Flynn's downfall was not that he violated any laws, but that he lied to Pence, is it possible that this so-called terrible insult to Pence was strategically exaggerated, or perhaps even premeditated? Was Pence advised to come out strongly in defense of Flynn by someone with knowledge that it could later be used against Flynn?

Of course this is pure speculation, with no anonymous government officials providing any leaked information. Pence seems like a nice, honest, upstanding guy, but is it possible that he could be used by less than transparent forces for palace intrigue and sabotage?

You never know, but here is more speculation to ponder:


Mike Pence is using Donald Trump’s Flynn-Russia flap to try to get Steve Bannon fired (https://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/mike-pence-is-using-donald-trumps-flynn-russia-flap-to-try-to-get-steve-bannon-fired/1558/)
By Bill Palmer | February 15, 2017

It’s never been clear what role, if any, Mike Pence may have played in the Donald Trump campaign’s collusion with Russia to rig the 2016 election. But now that Pence has been publicly dragged into the scandal and found himself placed squarely in the middle of National Security Adviser Michael Flynn’s demise, Pence is now using the calamity to publicly call for the demise of an unnamed Trump advisor who is almost surely Steve Bannon.

[CPUd]

They're definitely trying to keep Pence clean from the Flynn fiasco.

[Brian4Liberty]

Bill Kristol approved:


Bill Kristol, editor of the Weekly Standard, who has been advising Pence on foreign policy, said Pence’s legislative and executive experience gives him “an unusual niche.”

“Voters do want that anti-Washington outsider, but they also want someone who knows what he’s doing there,” Kristol said.
...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mike-pence-lays-out-a-vision-for-presidential-campaign-but-will-he-be-a-candidate/2014/12/11/0988c650-7cbd-11e4-84d4-7c896b90abdc_story.html

Blast from the past (2014):


Pence talks of his 2016 options
By BRIAN A. HOWEY - April 10, 2014

INDIANAPOLIS – The swirl of 2016 national ticket talk surrounding Gov. Mike Pence has intensified over the past few weeks. We know it’s a scenario the first-term Republican hasn’t spent so much as a minute pondering, though he is now acknowleding to Howey Politics Indiana that national figures are “reaching out” to him.

So when Howey Politics Indiana sat down with Gov. Pence on Tuesday morning, just as the Weekly Standard’s Bill Kristol was anointing Pence...as presidential timber on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe,” ...
...
http://howeypolitics.com/Content/Default/Lead-Story/Article/Pence-talks-of-his-2016-options/-3/346/11200

[TheCount]

Seems like some seriously tortured logic to me. Is it possible? Yes. But it seems highly unlikely. Get Flynn to lie to Pence, then get Pence to say something to the people, then hang Flynn with it?

Flynn had so many problems to begin with that I'm sure there would have been far easier ways to get rid of him if that was the original intent.

[Brian4Liberty]

Seems like some seriously tortured logic to me. Is it possible? Yes. But it seems highly unlikely. Get Flynn to lie to Pence, then get Pence to say something to the people, then hang Flynn with it?

Flynn had so many problems to begin with that I'm sure there would have been far easier ways to get rid of him if that was the original intent.

Imaginary conversation:

Bill: "Hi Mike, you should really get to the bottom of these Russia allegations. Why don't you ask Flynn about it, make sure he isn't making any deals with them."
Later...
Mike: "OK, I asked him about it. He said that he never talked to them about sanctions or any deals."
Bill: "That's good to hear. Now Chris will be asking you about this on Sunday, so we need to be firm about the fact that Flynn denied any inappropriate conversations."
Mike: "Sounds good."

[AZJoe]

Is Pence a neoconservative? Yes, definitely on foreign policy. He was a terrible pick for VP.

Is he a mole? No. His neoconservative interventionist positions have been open all along.

[dannno]

Seems like some seriously tortured logic to me.

Tortured logic? Really? Literally the first thing I thought when I saw the headline was "Holy shit, did Trump really approve of this? Doesn't seem like a necessarily fireable offense without all the details... Did Pence just get Flynn fired for the neocons for his pizzagate talk and such, how did Pence talk Trump into this fiasco?"

I mean, these were thoughts that literally fired off as I was reading the headline..




Is it possible? Yes. But it seems highly unlikely. Get Flynn to lie to Pence, then get Pence to say something to the people, then hang Flynn with it?

Flynn had so many problems to begin with that I'm sure there would have been far easier ways to get rid of him if that was the original intent.

This seems like a pretty easy way to me, and it was also done very quickly. Poor argument.

[Valli6]

That's been my gut feeling since he began being considered for VP.
I still can't believe Trump didn't see it coming.

…and speaking of neocon moles, why did Trump have dinner with Marco Rubio and his wife last night? (Trump mentioned this during the press conference he just had.)

[charrob]

Is Pence a neoconservative mole?

Yep. That's been clear for a long time.

[undergroundrr]

Sorry, I haven't seen anybody in this administration who isn't neocon to the core. trump's been bankrolling neocons since he was a wee lad. He mostly picks M-IC bankers. Why would he entertain anything else? His supporters are fine with whatever as long as he keeps sending out 5th-grade tweets.

[robert68]

It’s possible Trump instructed Flynn in person to do what he did and understandably didn’t tell Pence, but once it became public and Pence found out, he made it look like Flynn did it on his own and fired him.

[CaptUSA]

Mole? No. He's been consistent about his neoconnery for a long time.

Pence is a tool. A willing puppet. His entire career is based on this. People tell him what to do and say and he does and says it. He was a terrible pick for VP and that should have been a harbinger of Trump's judgment.

[nikcers]

The selection of Pence as VP was a bit controversial
I have my doubts about Pence but I give him the benefit of the doubt because his state decided the primaries so he had lots to bargain with so they could made some sort of a deal that was mutually beneficial.. Trump clearly has an agenda with Iran, that is aligned with the neoconservatives at the very least. I think Trump is the mole or Trojan, while Pence is their insurance.

[specsaregood]

"neoconservative mole", that's just asking for a meme image of sorts

[juleswin]

Nope, mole implies that his neocon allegiance is a secret. He has been a neocon put in place to make sure Trump in his infinite stupidity stays in line. And to all you people who imagined that he might have picked Rand or someone else, there was no chance of that cos he wasn't the person running the show.

The picture will become a bit clearer in 4-8 yrs.

[shakey1]

Could be that the US establishment had it in for Flynn for his (& Trump's) interest in reversing the decline in Russian-American relations, & so got rid of Flynn to derail that budding relationship.

[brushfire]

http://images.cdn.starpulse.com/news/bloggers/1279398/blog_images/frank-1-1.jpg

[dannno]

It’s possible Trump instructed Flynn in person to do what he did and understandably didn’t tell Pence, but once it became public and Pence found out, he made it look like Flynn did it on his own and fired him.

lol, where is TheCount when you need him.. tortured logic indeed :rolleyes:

[TheCount]

lol, where is TheCount when you need him.. tortured logic indeed :rolleyes:I agree. That would be giving Trump an amazing amount of credit.

[robert68]

lol, where is TheCount when you need him.. tortured logic indeed :rolleyes:

If that's how you see it, it must be plausible.

[Brian4Liberty]

It’s possible Trump instructed Flynn in person to do what he did and understandably didn’t tell Pence, but once it became public and Pence found out, he made it look like Flynn did it on his own and fired him.

Trump has stated that the firing was because Flynn lied to Pence. Haven't heard Trump say that Flynn lied to him (Trump)... hmm.

But once again, this all comes down to the central role of Pence in all of this.

Accusation: "Flynn lied to, mislead or withheld information from Pence".

- Is this a crime?
- Was Flynn under oath while speaking to Pence?
- Was Pence under oath, and standing in for Flynn while talking to Chris Wallace?
- Isn't this fairly standard procedure in politics and business? Only under certain circumstances does it because fraud or crime. Of course the boss can fire anyone at anytime for any reason, or it used to be that way.
- Did Flynn report to VP? The media has elevated VP to some kind of second in command, where everything going up or coming down has to go through him. When did that happen? I may be wrong, but the only official duty of the VP is to be alive and breathing in order to replace the POTUS when POTUS dies, and to cast tie-breaker votes in Senate.

[Brian4Liberty]

Is Pence a neoconservative? Yes, definitely on foreign policy. He was a terrible pick for VP.

Is he a mole? No. His neoconservative interventionist positions have been open all along.

Yeah, mole was not the best word to use. It was known to those who follow politics closely.

On the other hand, the other 99% of the population doesn't know what a neoconservative is, or that Pence is one. To them, it is a secret.

[CPUd]

Probably 75% of the population does not know who Mike Pence is, and that he's VP.

[Brian4Liberty]

"neoconservative mole", that's just asking for a meme image of sorts

Neoconservative moles leave behind molehills. Media makes them into mountains. :toady:

[Brian4Liberty]

- Did Flynn report to VP? The media has elevated VP to some kind of second in command, where everything going up or coming down has to go through him. When did that happen? I may be wrong, but the only official duty of the VP is to be alive and breathing in order to replace the POTUS when POTUS dies, and to cast tie-breaker votes in Senate.

And just tonight, the local CBS news reports that "Pence tours Dachau" and follows up with "Pence meets with Belgium Prime Minister and world leaders".

They are elevating Pence to POTUS. How long does Trump have left?

[oyarde]

Pence is the most openly honest person on all positions he holds in the white house . Was consistent through his career in the house . His large weakness is foreign policy which mattered not when he was Gov .