We will not pay: the Americans withholding their taxes to fight Trump

[CaseyJones]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/15/tax-refusing-pay-protest-trump


Andrew Newman always pays his taxes, even if he hates what the government is doing with them. But not this year. For him, Donald Trump is the dealbreaker. He’ll pay his city and state taxes but will refuse to pay federal income tax as a cry of civil disobedience against the president and his new administration.

Newman is not alone. A nascent movement has been detected to revive the popularity of tax resistance – last seen en masse in America during the Vietnam war but which has been, sporadically, a tradition in the US and beyond going back many centuries.

“My tax money will be going towards putting up a wall on the Mexican border instead of helping sick people. It will contribute to the destruction of the environment and maybe more nuclear weapons. I think there will be a redistribution of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy elite and Trump’s campaign for the working man and woman was an absolute fraud. If you pay taxes you are implicated in the system,” said Newman, an associate professor of English and history at Stony Brook University on Long Island, part of the State University of New York.

“The government wants our money and if a lot of people were thinking about this kind of peaceful protest, it would get their attention,” he added.

Newman, 48, regrets that his 2016 taxes have already been automatically taken out of his paycheck. He intends to write to the government accusing the Trump administration of a planned misuse of those public funds. Then he will change his 2017 arrangements so that he will get a bill from the Inland Revenue Service, instead, and will refuse to pay it, donating the money to causes he deems more socially responsible.

He will be following the example of one of his heroes, Henry David Thoreau, who refused to pay tax that would fund wars and slavery and was jailed for it in 1846, and whose famous essay, Civil Disobedience, Newman often reads to his students. Martin Luther King Jr was a huge admirer or Thoreau’s argument about civil disobedience, and Mahatma Gandhi led salt tax protests and resistance that helped spur independence for India.

“I’ve been discussing this with friends and colleagues and they are extremely interested,” he said. “People are very responsive but they also say ‘I don’t want to go to jail.’”

He is far more likely simply to be fined and charged interest on the unpaid taxes by the IRS.

“There have been very few people who have spent time in jail for not paying taxes as an explicit act of political resistance,” said Ruth Benn, coordinator of the National War Tax Resistance Coordinating Committee, a campaign group that encourages federal tax boycotts in the name of peace and advises citizens on how to go about it.

The committee was created in 1982, around the time Benn stopped paying her federal income tax, as a protest against the nuclear arms race during the cold war.

“I’ve never been taken to court,” she said. IRS agents have questioned her a couple of times, most recently in 2009, saying she owed $40,000 in back taxes. They once took a small amount of money from her bank account, she said, but the consequences have been few – though IRS letters in her mailbox still “put fear in my heart”, she said.

Even after the cold war, Benn has kept up her action because of what she sees as excess spending on the military – which Trump has pledged to boost – as well as the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the militarization of the police.

Benn said enthusiasm for tax resistance appeared to be growing in the Trump era, though cautiously. Visits to the committee’s rudimentary website have doubled in recent weeks to about 1,500 a day. The committee estimates that about 8,000 people a year refuse to pay US federal income tax as an act of civil disobedience, and that number is expected to rise.

Among famous faces, Mia Farrow has tweeted about tax resistance. Gloria Steinem is also planning to take part in the movement.

In an email to the Guardian, Steinem said: “In 1968, we refused to pay the 10% of our Federal income tax dollars that funded the war in Vietnam, and included a letter to the IRS saying so. In February before tax time on March 15, 500 or so of us listed our names in ads that we published in the New York Times, together with a quote [from] Thoreau on Civil Disobedience, and an invitation to join us.”

She added: “I’m going to do this again by sending what I think should go to Planned Parenthood, deducting it from my Federal IRS return, and including a letter saying so. Though it’s a smaller sum than Vietnam, we won’t just be keeping it or using some to pay for expensive NYT ads, and can add whatever each of us is able to in order to support Planned Parenthood.”

Anti-Trump rallies are being planned nationwide for 15 April, which is normally tax day, even though this year returns are due on 18 April. The theme will be to demand that the president release his federal tax records, something he has resolutely refused to do.

Kirsten Taylor, 50, a contemporary arts fundraiser in Grand Rapids, Michigan, is especially anxious to see Donald Trump’s tax returns.

“I’m not really a political activist but I feel like Trump’s taxes are his kryptonite. I want a campaign of non-payment in the style of ‘I’ll show you mine when you show me yours’. I’m desperate for someone to figure out a way to get him to disclose his returns. I think they would show he should not be president.”

Taylor is passionate about refusing to pay federal income tax until Trump releases his returns – but is currently undecided about whether she can afford it, with two children in college needing her support, she said.

“If a wealthy benefactor could afford to pay people’s fines and legal expenses, that would be amazing,” she said, citing the example of the progressive documentary maker Michael Moore offering to pay any fines for Republican members of the electoral college who would agree to vote against Trump.

Robinson, a New York playwright in her late 20s who preferred not to share her full identity because of fear of repercussions from her current employer, has found a useful loophole.

As an artist, she is able to create her own company into which she is paid as a writer and then pays out her own salary, pension fund contributions, agent’s fees and the like.

Not long after Trump was elected, Robinson sat down with her accountant and discussed legal ways to pay negligible federal income tax, instead making extra payments into her tax-deferred pension plan and still paying her local and state taxes and Medicaid and Medicare contributions.

“This is my way of saying to Trump: you think you’re the only one who knows how to use the tax laws to your advantage?” she said.

The Quakers have yet to throw their weight behind the new wave of interest, despite officially urging the boycotting of federal taxes during the Vietnam war and espousing tax resistance as a pacifist strategy during their 17th-century beginnings, in both Britain and America.

Meanwhile, there is talk in California of the state becoming an “organized non-payer” of its dues to the federal government and urging non-compliance with the federal tax code if Trump cuts off federal funding to its “sanctuary cities” – Los Angeles, San Francisco and Sacramento – if they do not cooperate with demands to hand over undocumented immigrants.

But some people are bound to get the collywobbles when they look at Randy Kehler. He spent 10 weeks in a county jail in Massachusetts in the early 1990s after years of very publicly refusing to pay taxes in protest at war spending (he also spent 22 months in federal prison for refusing to cooperate with the Vietnam war draft).

In 1989, the feds had tried to seize his house. In a long legal battle, he ended up behind bars, only getting out when the authorities finally auctioned off his and his wife’s house.

“But friends built us a better one and we’ve lived in it ever since,” he said.

Kehler said it was not easy to foretell what effect a mass tax resistance would have on the Trump administration.

“If you’re waiting for a guaranteed result, you could be waiting a long time. But it is all part of a mass of acts of conscience by ordinary people that is important. Go do it. You’re highly unlikely to end up in jail like me,” he said.

[Root]

Yes!!! How do we encourage more of this?

[Schifference]

What would the response have been for not paying taxes under the Obama administration?

[angelatc]

But some people are bound to get the collywobbles....

Fuck the liberals and their hypocrisy.

[KrokHead]

Yes!!! How do we encourage more of this?

Hit em where it hurts!

[CaseyJones]

Yes!!! How do we encourage more of this?

calling them unamerican?

[tod evans]

I'm happy to see folks not paying for any reason.

[fedupinmo]

Yes!!! How do we encourage more of this?

Inject this video into the liberal consciousness...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6b70TUbdfs

[jmdrake]

Yes!!! How do we encourage more of this?

LOL. The left has finally done it. They've given me a reason to vote Trump in 2020.

[silverhandorder]

Yup.

[euphemia]

Taxes are not the issue with this article. Trump is.

These people would have been happy to pay taxes to Hillary Clinton for murder of innocent preborn children. Indeed, they happily paid for barbarism for the whole of their working life up until now.

Nonpayment of taxes as a resistance to unconstitutional government is probably not the best thing, either, but it is certainly less repulsive than the snowflake reasons. The Constitution gives us the freedom of peaceful assembly to redress grievances against government. If we arer going to talk about the Constitution, then we have to be as consistent as we expect government to be.

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

. . .

[Origanalist]

. . .

- - -

[phill4paul]

. . .


- - -

. . .

[Jan2017]

The IRS will continue to audit Trump now as President (?) . . . this will be a doozie

[Root]

Inject this video into the liberal consciousness...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6b70TUbdfs
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to fedupinmo again.

[shakey1]

The American people should have control over where our money is being spent... where did it all go wrong?

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0584/3841/products/none-uncle-scam-medium-figure-5.jpg?v=1464133741

[phill4paul]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to fedupinmo again.

Covered.

[Origanalist]

. . .

Message received.

[opal]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to fedupinmo again.


Covered.

twice

[otherone]

Inject this video into the liberal consciousness...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6b70TUbdfs


The problem isn't the dot, or the gang of enforcers. If the majority of the koolaid-drinking throng actually believed taxation is theft, there would be no taxation. As a side note, it's interesting that there are more IRS enforcers than representatives of the people.

[KEEF]

twice
Three times a lady!

[euphemia]

Of course we should have some say. For years we have been sending people to Washington with specific orders to end the scourge of abortion. None of them did anything. Now Trump has taken a baby step in the right direction.

But nonpayment of taxes is not a constitutional way to redress grievances against government.

[phill4paul]

Message received.

The chair is against the wall. The chair is against the wall.

[Origanalist]

Of course we should have some say. For years we have been sending people to Washington with specific orders to end the scourge of abortion. None of them did anything. Now Trump has taken a baby step in the right direction.

But nonpayment of taxes is not a constitutional way to redress grievances against government.

Ha ha ha ha

[bunklocoempire]

How do the kids say?

All taxation is theft.

[Dr.3D]

The chair is against the wall. The chair is against the wall.
John has a long mustache. I repeat, John has a long mustache.

[juleswin]

Inject this video into the liberal consciousness...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6b70TUbdfs

The video is not very convincing. Most liberals know that the tiny dot represents millions of people in the society who voted for them. Also, very few of them are calling for lowered taxes for every body. In fact the majority would the little dot to increase the taxes on the 1% so that they can get more of the programs they like. Programs like police, fire services, road works, justice system, NASA etc etc.

They see the wars as the price they have to pay for getting the goodies they want and they are wiling to pay for it. This video would be dismissed out of hand by many liberals because the premise that the one dot does not represent a huge chunk of the population is wrong. Freedom is not popular while statism is popular.

[Ender]

Of course we should have some say. For years we have been sending people to Washington with specific orders to end the scourge of abortion. None of them did anything. Now Trump has taken a baby step in the right direction.

But nonpayment of taxes is not a constitutional way to redress grievances against government.

Uh....income tax IS unconstitutional.

[Superfluous Man]

Post #11 cracks me up.

I just knew the Trumpsters wouldn't support this.

[CPUd]

Of course we should have some say. For years we have been sending people to Washington with specific orders to end the scourge of abortion. None of them did anything. Now Trump has taken a baby step in the right direction.

But nonpayment of taxes is not a constitutional way to redress grievances against government.

LOL they're not going to pay for your fucken wall

[asurfaholic]

This is pure liberty gold. Eagerly supportive of this form of protest and civil disobedience.

[undergroundrr]

There's a really great documentary about the what Randy Kehler and Betsy Corner went through called An Act of Conscience.

http://www.der.org/films/act-of-conscience.html

[angelatc]

This is pure liberty gold. Eagerly supportive of this form of protest and civil disobedience.

Except when the pendulum swings back to the left they'll be right back to advocating for theft because social contracts, muh roads, and it's the price we pay for living in a civilized society.

Peter Schiff's father died in prison over this crap. Literally millions of people are financially devastated after the IRS gets finished with them. But I am supposed to be happy because the snowflake tantrum du jour happens to coincide with my personal beliefs for a few brief moments in time?

Some of you buy happiness pretty cheaply, but I still cannot afford it.

[euphemia]

Where was this form of civil disobedience eight years ago, or even four years ago? Making Trump the issue will not make the point that government is the issue.

[angelatc]

Where was this form of civil disobedience eight years ago, or even four years ago? Making Trump the issue will not make the point that government is the issue.

He's Superfluous.

[phill4paul]

Except when the pendulum swings back to the left they'll be right back to advocating for theft because social contracts, muh roads, and it's the price we pay for living in a civilized society.

Peter Schiff's father died in prison over this crap. Literally millions of people are financially devastated after the IRS gets finished with them. But I am supposed to be happy because the snowflake tantrum du jour happens to coincide with my personal beliefs for a few brief moments in time?

Some of you buy happiness pretty cheaply, but I still cannot afford it.

True.

Occupy Wall Street: "Right on, down with fascists!"
Occupy a wildlife refuge: "Send in the drones!"

And I'll bet these tax protesters still rant that the top 1% should have to pay a 99% income tax rate.

[CaseyJones]

Where was this form of civil disobedience eight years ago, or even four years ago? Making Trump the issue will not make the point that government is the issue.

many people called for it
many already do it and have for years
Craig T. Nelson the actor called for a tax revolt on the tonight show in 2009 for instance

[juleswin]

This is pure liberty gold. Eagerly supportive of this form of protest and civil disobedience.

Then you wake up and realize that this is just partisans doing what they do best. The democrats care about the govt debt when republicans are in office and vice versa, this happens on issues of war, civil liberties,executive power, etc etc. They don't really care about the issue in front of them, just the opponent. The pendulum swings and whatever gain you thought you made evaporates.

This has been such a vicious cycles that the actions of the two parties are becoming very predictable. I have personally given up hope and just here for the lawls now :)

[otherone]

The Constitution gives us the freedom of peaceful assembly to redress grievances against government. If we arer going to talk about the Constitution, then we have to be as consistent as we expect government to be.

If we are going to talk about the Constitution, then we should begin with the premise that the Constitution doesn't "give" us the freedom of peaceful assembly to redress grievances against government

[Anti Federalist]

John has a long mustache. I repeat, John has a long mustache.

The looters have entered the package store.

[Athan]

This is a good development and should be encouraged. The liberals have been bent out of shape so badly they starting to do somethings right inadvertently.

[Anti Federalist]

Except when the pendulum swings back to the left they'll be right back to advocating for theft because social contracts, muh roads, and it's the price we pay for living in a civilized society.

Peter Schiff's father died in prison over this crap. Literally millions of people are financially devastated after the IRS gets finished with them. But I am supposed to be happy because the snowflake tantrum du jour happens to coincide with my personal beliefs for a few brief moments in time?

Some of you buy happiness pretty cheaply, but I still cannot afford it.

Nicely put and I agree.

This special snowflake, I am quite sure, has no idea who Ed and Elaine Brown are either.

And if he does, more than likely was all for the government destroying them and throwing them in cages to die.

That said, I am all for actions such as this for one reason, it drives home the basic inequity of government in all it's forms, of "democracy" stealing bread from your table, to pay for shit you find morally repulsive.

I have seen leftists carrying signs saying "become ungovernable".

I agree 100%.

By any logical and reasonable assessment, this country already is.

I have thought, over the years, that you took a little too harsh of a stand against "liberals", that your immediate distaste of them and their policies and beliefs was too rigid, too unwelcome to finding common cause, too dismissive of what perhaps were valid concerns and points of view.

Well, mea culpa...I was as wrong about that as I was about political prognostications.

The last few months has shown me one thing, if nothing else: there can be no common cause or common ground with people who are insane.

More than insane, these people are unhinged.

The faster that pendulum swings, the father it swings, the more force it builds up, is the closer we get to the only solution to this problem: break up and dissolution of the nation state called the USA.

The situation is now clearly untenable, unsolvable, ungovernable and no longer has the consent of anybody to govern them.

Not to mention being broke.

Dissolve it, let each state or group of states go its own way.

End it now, before it ends in war and bloodshed.

[Athan]

Nicely put and I agree.

This special snowflake, I am quite sure, has no idea who Ed and Elaine Brown are either.

And if he does, more than likely was all for the government destroying them and throwing them in cages to die.

That said, I am all for actions such as this for one reason, it drives home the basic inequity of government in all it's forms, of "democracy" stealing bread from your table, to pay for $#@! you find morally repulsive.

I have seen leftists carrying signs saying "become ungovernable".

I agree 100%.

By any logical and reasonable assessment, this country already is.

I have thought, over the years, that you took a little too harsh of a stand against "liberals", that your immediate distaste of them and their policies and beliefs was too rigid, too unwelcome to finding common cause, too dismissive of what perhaps were valid concerns and points of view.

Well, mea culpa...I was as wrong about that as I was about political prognostications.

The last few months has shown me one thing, if nothing else: there can be no common cause or common ground with people who are insane.

More than insane, these people are unhinged.

The faster that pendulum swings, the father it swings, the more force it builds up, is the closer we get to the only solution to this problem: break up and dissolution of the nation state called the USA.

The situation is now clearly untenable, unsolvable, ungovernable and no longer has the consent of anybody to govern them.

Not to mention being broke.

Dissolve it, let each state or group of states go its own way.

End it now, before it ends in war and bloodshed.

I agree. We aren't dealing with people like Dave Rubin from the Rubin report or Sam Harris. We are dealing more with the brat children and zombie army of Bill Kristol, Diane Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi, and TYT. Secession of California and tax protesting have been the ONLY sensible and rational actions the left has collectively taken. Basically the accuracy of a broken clock. In general however, they are stark raving mad.

[CPUd]

I agree. We aren't dealing with people like Dave Rubin from the Rubin report or Sam Harris. We are dealing more with the brat children and zombie army of Bill Kristol, Diane Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi, and TYT. Secession of California and tax protesting have been the ONLY sensible and rational actions the left has collectively taken. Basically the accuracy of a broken clock. In general however, they are stark raving mad.

This is a broad collectivist statement. Are you a psychiatrist?

[Athan]

This is a broad collectivist statement. Are you a psychiatrist?

lol angered the shill.

[Sonny Tufts]

Peter Schiff's father died in prison over this crap.

No, Irwin Schiff did not go to jail for protesting taxation as a matter of conscience. He was a three-time loser who sold phony tax advice to suckers who relied on it to their detriment.

[angelatc]

I agree. We aren't dealing with people like Dave Rubin from the Rubin report or Sam Harris. We are dealing more with the brat children and zombie army of Bill Kristol, Diane Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi, and TYT. Secession of California and tax protesting have been the ONLY sensible and rational actions the left has collectively taken. Basically the accuracy of a broken clock. In general however, they are stark raving mad.

Trump isn't radical right enough to suit me. I had hoped that he would reset foreign policy but I don't sense that's going to happen. Which is a shame, because the reason he won the primary was because he refused to treat the liberals as sane.

[CPUd]

lol angered the shill.

What shill?

[Athan]

Trump isn't radical right enough to suit me. I had hoped that he would reset foreign policy but I don't sense that's going to happen. Which is a shame, because the reason he won the primary was because he refused to treat the liberals as sane.

I know, it is difficult to see how the foreign policy is panning out somewhat. I see serious problems growing from China/India/Pakistan region, another in house of Saud stability if King Abdulla dies, and its hard to see how Trump is going to respond. Right now it's just saber rattling.

[phill4paul]

Nicely put and I agree.

This special snowflake, I am quite sure, has no idea who Ed and Elaine Brown are either.

And if he does, more than likely was all for the government destroying them and throwing them in cages to die.

That said, I am all for actions such as this for one reason, it drives home the basic inequity of government in all it's forms, of "democracy" stealing bread from your table, to pay for shit you find morally repulsive.

I have seen leftists carrying signs saying "become ungovernable".

I agree 100%.

By any logical and reasonable assessment, this country already is.

I have thought, over the years, that you took a little too harsh of a stand against "liberals", that your immediate distaste of them and their policies and beliefs was too rigid, too unwelcome to finding common cause, too dismissive of what perhaps were valid concerns and points of view.

Well, mea culpa...I was as wrong about that as I was about political prognostications.

The last few months has shown me one thing, if nothing else: there can be no common cause or common ground with people who are insane.

More than insane, these people are unhinged.

The faster that pendulum swings, the father it swings, the more force it builds up, is the closer we get to the only solution to this problem: break up and dissolution of the nation state called the USA.

The situation is now clearly untenable, unsolvable, ungovernable and no longer has the consent of anybody to govern them.

Not to mention being broke.

Dissolve it, let each state or group of states go its own way.

End it now, before it ends in war and bloodshed.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Anti Federalist again.

[otherone]

This is a broad collectivist statement. Are you a psychiatrist?

https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder458/500x/75654458.jpg

[angelatc]

I know, it is difficult to see how the foreign policy is panning out somewhat. I see serious problems growing from China/India/Pakistan region, another in house of Saud stability if King Abdulla dies, and its hard to see how Trump is going to respond. Right now it's just saber rattling.

I would like to see him drop all the sanctions against Russia, pardon Snowden to take away Putin's bargaining chip, and watch the domestic fallout from a golf course somewhere.

[Athan]

Agreed. Outside of pardoning Snowden, he needs to keep to his promise of investigating Hillary for SAP, emails, blurting out nuke secrets on live TV, and other crimes specifically the Clinton Foundation for pay to play. Until he does that, he maybe more of the same even though it may just be a slight improvement from the typical president.

[CaptUSA]

Um... I hate to throw cold water on this, but let's be honest here.

Most of these people don't pay taxes now anyway. In fact, if they change their withholdings it just means the government will have less to pay them back. If they were to really stop filing, they wouldn't get their "credits" and the government would end up with MORE money.

Ain't gun' happen.

[Anti Federalist]

No, Irwin Schiff did not go to jail for protesting taxation as a matter of conscience. He was a three-time loser who sold phony tax advice to suckers who relied on it to their detriment.

You don't figure numerous prosecutions and a lifetime of harassment by the IRS to be a "matter of conscience"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irwin_Schiff

[Anti Federalist]

Um... I hate to throw cold water on this, but let's be honest here.

Most of these people don't pay taxes now anyway. In fact, if they change their withholdings it just means the government will have less to pay them back. If they were to really stop filing, they wouldn't get their "credits" and the government would end up with MORE money.

Ain't gun' happen.

According to the article, Newman plans on altering his withholding (amazing, maybe people can start getting pissed off about that, how about it leftists: "TRUMP KEEPS YOUR MONEY BEFORE YOU EVEN GET PAID!") so as to owe money, and then plans on not paying.

[Athan]

Um... I hate to throw cold water on this, but let's be honest here.

Most of these people don't pay taxes now anyway. In fact, if they change their withholdings it just means the government will have less to pay them back. If they were to really stop filing, they wouldn't get their "credits" and the government would end up with MORE money.

Ain't gun' happen.
Hey, times are crazy, you never know! :D

[otherone]

According to the article, Newman plans on altering his withholding (amazing, maybe people can start getting pissed off about that, how about it leftists: "TRUMP KEEPS YOUR MONEY BEFORE YOU EVEN GET PAID!") so as to owe money, and then plans on not paying.

except for employment taxes.

[Sonny Tufts]

You don't figure numerous prosecutions and a lifetime of harassment by the IRS to be a "matter of conscience"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irwin_Schiff

Not when he's selling bogus tax avoidance stuff that adversely affects people who rely on it not out of some sort of opposition to taxation but because they really believe the crap he's peddling is a legal way to avoid taxes.

[KrokHead]

The American people should have control over where our money is being spent... where did it all go wrong?

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0584/3841/products/none-uncle-scam-medium-figure-5.jpg?v=1464133741

It's sad. As recently as WW II Americans had to be reminded to pay their taxes. Now people think it was always compulsory.

[Anti Federalist]

Not when he's selling bogus tax avoidance stuff that adversely affects people who rely on it not out of some sort of opposition to taxation but because they really believe the crap he's peddling is a legal way to avoid taxes.

So you're in favor of throwing people in jail for selling books?

[Anti Federalist]

It's sad. As recently as WW II Americans had to be reminded to pay their taxes. Now people think it was always compulsory.

Not much choice about it when 90 odd percent have their taxes extorted from them before they even see the fruits of their labors.

[Sonny Tufts]

So you're in favor of throwing people in jail for selling books?

Schiff wasn't jailed for selling books -- he was convicted of evading his individual taxes and those of his corporation, filing false tax returns, and aiding and abetting the filing of false tax returns by others. He also received jail time for criminal contempt of court due to his misbehavior during one of his trials.

[phill4paul]

Schiff wasn't jailed for selling books -- he was convicted of evading his individual taxes and those of his corporation, filing false tax returns, and aiding and abetting the filing of false tax returns by others. He also received jail time for criminal contempt of court due to his misbehavior during one of his trials.

No, he wasn't. He was jailed because he had the audacity to expose the government for what it is. An extortive mafia.

[oyarde]

This will be my last year for paying since I retired in April . I am excited .

[dude58677]

Taxes are to be resisted given that there is no law requiring anyone to pay them. I don't care who is in office.

[juleswin]

Schiff wasn't jailed for selling books -- he was convicted of evading his individual taxes and those of his corporation, filing false tax returns, and aiding and abetting the filing of false tax returns by others. He also received jail time for criminal contempt of court due to his misbehavior during one of his trials.

Just looked on amazon and you can buy every single one of his books there. Peter Schiff sells the autographed copies. So yes, he definitely wasn't arrested for selling books. He was arrested for tax evasion and convicted of it. He evaded his taxes and came out on TV to talk about it. That takes balls but we all knew that would lead to his arrest.

[oyarde]

Just looked on amazon and you can buy every single one of his books there. Peter Schiff sells the autographed copies. So yes, he definitely wasn't arrested for selling books. He was arrested for tax evasion and convicted of it. He evaded his taxes and came out on TV to talk about it. That takes balls but we all knew that would lead to his arrest.

The way I see it they just killed him for talking about not paying .

[dude58677]

Schiff wasn't jailed for selling books -- he was convicted of evading his individual taxes and those of his corporation, filing false tax returns, and aiding and abetting the filing of false tax returns by others. He also received jail time for criminal contempt of court due to his misbehavior during one of his trials.


Piss off, snowflake. I bet you are a snowflake that whines about Donald Trump not releasing his tax returns, ending Obamacare, and freezing regulations. Haha haha, piss off snowflake!

Pretty soon another non-politician will becone President and pardon all tax evaders and you will finally have enough money to buy bulk from the company Kleenex so you will have a lifetime supply.

[Superfluous Man]

Taxes are to be resisted given that there is no law requiring anyone to pay them. I don't care who is in office.

Have you ever been audited and tried using that line?

[dude58677]

Have you ever been audited and tried using that line?

Get a tissue snowflake! If you don't want to make the economy great again then leave!

[nikcers]

Get a tissue snowflake! If you don't want to make the economy great again then leave! If you owe taxes try leaving the country, I dare you. What do you think Ron Paul means when he says they are building a wall to keep people in?

[Dark_Horse_Rider]

No, he wasn't. He was jailed because he had the audacity to expose the government for what it is. An extortive mafia.

That's also the way I saw it.

[dude58677]

If you owe taxes try leaving the country, I dare you. What do you think Ron Paul means when he says they are building a wall to keep people in?

Donald Trump only likes people who agree with him. I wouldn't get on his dark side by not wanting to make the economy great again.

[Sonny Tufts]

Piss off, snowflake. I bet you are a snowflake that whines about Donald Trump not releasing his tax returns, ending Obamacare, and freezing regulations. Haha haha, piss off snowflake!

And I bet (with 100% certainty) that you're an abysmally ignorant moron who has bought into the myth that there's no law requiring people to pay taxes. I won't say piss off, but I will say to get your head out of your ass, stop drinking the tax protester Kool-Aid, and learn a little law.

[dude58677]

And I bet (with 100% certainty) that you're an abysmally ignorant moron who has bought into the myth that there's no law requiring people to pay taxes. I won't say piss off, but I will say to get your head out of your ass, stop drinking the tax protester Kool-Aid, and learn a little law.

LMAO! Fake rulings and fake "laws"! You call me a moron? LMAO! You don't want to make the economy great again, so piss off snowflake!

[nikcers]

LMAO! Fake rulings and fake "laws"! You call me a moron? LMAO! You don't want to make the economy great again, so piss off snowflake! Someone cover me I can't rep this twice

[Anti Federalist]

Schiff wasn't jailed for selling books -- he was convicted of evading his individual taxes and those of his corporation, filing false tax returns, and aiding and abetting the filing of false tax returns by others. He also received jail time for criminal contempt of court due to his misbehavior during one of his trials.

I am well aware of the charges leveled against him.

Just because government convicts you and sends you to a death cage, does not mean the charges are, in fact, true or an accurate portrayal of your beliefs and actions.

I think I'll take Ron Paul's words over yours in this matter:


“Just recently, when we read about the death of Irwin Schiff, he was actually imprisoned and killed by our government because he spoke out about the unconstitutionality of the way taxes were being collected,” he said Wednesday on the Alex Jones Show. “It wasn’t that he was a violent person, he wasn’t for anarchy or anything else and I don’t think he ever said the statement that there should be no taxes either, but [simply] because he said what the government was doing was unconstitutional and the government told him ‘you’re not allowed to talk about that.'”

“[But] he did and [when] he was 77, they put him in jail for 14 years and literally I think killed him, you know because it was a death sentence, a life sentence and he didn’t [even] get his medical care, so that’s how ruthless the government is.”

http://www.infowars.com/ron-paul-feds-killed-irwin-schiff-for-speaking-out/

[oyarde]

Ron is right , they are ruthless .

[TheTexan]

Schiff wasn't jailed for selling books -- he was convicted of evading his individual taxes and those of his corporation, filing false tax returns, and aiding and abetting the filing of false tax returns by others.

Tax evasion??!!!

What a terrible American !

[oyarde]

Tax evasion??!!!

What a terrible American !

Well , now that I am an old retired guy who has worked hard to ensure I will no longer need to pay ( I should be below the income limit for my age ) , I still get to vote and I will have time to make sure everyone else I know votes too.

[TheTexan]

I still get to vote and I will have time to make sure everyone else I know votes too.

+rep youre a great American

[dude58677]

Fake Sonny spends all his time reading fake rulings based on fake "laws" with intent to rip innocent people off. Sad!

[Weston White]

Not when he's selling bogus tax avoidance stuff that adversely affects people who rely on it not out of some sort of opposition to taxation but because they really believe the crap he's peddling is a legal way to avoid taxes.

Perhaps he did not have all of the answers, but he certainly had some of the answers--concerning a highly complex scheme, the federal income tax code. Also, he ended up giving away many of his works for free in protest of injunctions/prohibitions against him.

In any case he certainly did not deserve to rot away, bedridden in prison for any of this--a system of which you are an apparatchik.

Also, find yourself some damned respect, the man is dead for Christ's sake!

[Rudeman]

I agree. We aren't dealing with people like Dave Rubin from the Rubin report or Sam Harris. We are dealing more with the brat children and zombie army of Bill Kristol, Diane Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi, and TYT. Secession of California and tax protesting have been the ONLY sensible and rational actions the left has collectively taken. Basically the accuracy of a broken clock. In general however, they are stark raving mad.

I look at it differently than you 2. The left is becoming so unhinged that they are turning away normal liberals like Dave Rubin. These nutjob progressives are self cannibalizing and all I can think of is good. Whenever there is a wedge issue use it to your political advantage.

[LibertyEagle]

Post #11 cracks me up.

I just knew the Trumpsters wouldn't support this.

I think it's great that people don't want to pay taxes. However, as you must know, these are the very same people who heralded Obama. So, it's not about principle. But, people pretending to be libertarians don't care about this fact.

[asurfaholic]

Except when the pendulum swings back to the left they'll be right back to advocating for theft because social contracts, muh roads, and it's the price we pay for living in a civilized society.

Peter Schiff's father died in prison over this crap. Literally millions of people are financially devastated after the IRS gets finished with them. But I am supposed to be happy because the snowflake tantrum du jour happens to coincide with my personal beliefs for a few brief moments in time?

Some of you buy happiness pretty cheaply, but I still cannot afford it.

Less concerned with trying to understand the different motives, and more concerned that this is the legitimate way to demonstrate displeasure with government actions.

Not going to lie and say the irony escaped me that this could well be a bunch of snowflake liberals who want every govt program expanded, but really the beauty is that the freedom idea is gaining some ground in people's minds.

Better than a riot in the streets.

[LibertyEagle]

Less concerned with trying to understand the different motives, and more concerned that this is the legitimate way to demonstrate displeasure with government actions.

Not going to lie and say the irony escaped me that this could well be a bunch of snowflake liberals who want every govt program expanded, but really the beauty is that the freedom idea is gaining some ground in people's minds.

Better than a riot in the streets.

Give me a break. It has nothing to do with freedom. These are drones following the playbook handed them. Do you not know all this is being orchestrated?

https://barackobama.com/
Click on Organizing for America at the bottom of the page.

[juleswin]

I am well aware of the charges leveled against him.

If you are aware of the charges leveled against him, then why did you saying he was thrown in jail for selling books? lots of people are free running around today who make speeches, write books about how taxes are unconstitutional and they are not all in jail. Judge Napolitano even says that tax is theft on TV and he is still free. . If the govt sent people in jail for spreading this info, none of these people would be free today.


Just because government convicts you and sends you to a death cage, does not mean the charges are, in fact, true or an accurate portrayal of your beliefs and actions.

But the charges of tax evasion leveled against him are true. He said it himself on the TV program where he appeared in. His problem is that unlike most people who evaded paying taxes, they were not bold, brash and boastful on TV confessing their crime. Your beliefs? why should it matter? If I believe that I did not assault you when I just hit you in the head for doing nothing. I doubt you care what my belief of the matter is.


I think I'll take Ron Paul's words over yours in this matter:


“Just recently, when we read about the death of Irwin Schiff, he was actually imprisoned and killed by our government because he spoke out about the unconstitutionality of the way taxes were being collected,” he said Wednesday on the Alex Jones Show. “It wasn’t that he was a violent person, he wasn’t for anarchy or anything else and I don’t think he ever said the statement that there should be no taxes either, but [simply] because he said what the government was doing was unconstitutional and the government told him ‘you’re not allowed to talk about that.'”

“[But] he did and [when] he was 77, they put him in jail for 14 years and literally I think killed him, you know because it was a death sentence, a life sentence and he didn’t [even] get his medical care, so that’s how ruthless the government is.”

http://www.infowars.com/ron-paul-feds-killed-irwin-schiff-for-speaking-out/

Just because Ron Paul says something doesn't make it true. The man wasn't sent to a "death cage" by the govt because life itself is a death cage. The man was 87 yrs old with lung cancer, he did not have a good prospects of living a long life with that diagnosis. So the govt did not kill him, he died of lung cancer.

[Anti Federalist]

How do the kids say?

All taxation is theft.

Yes, they do say that.

Yes, it is.

[Anti Federalist]

Cuz I felt like it, Ed.


If you are aware of the charges leveled against him, then why did you saying he was thrown in jail for selling books? lots of people are free running around today who make speeches, write books about how taxes are unconstitutional and they are not all in jail. Judge Napolitano even says that tax is theft on TV and he is still free. . If the govt sent people in jail for spreading this info, none of these people would be free today.



But the charges of tax evasion leveled against him are true. He said it himself on the TV program where he appeared in. His problem is that unlike most people who evaded paying taxes, they were not bold, brash and boastful on TV confessing their crime. Your beliefs? why should it matter? If I believe that I did not assault you when I just hit you in the head for doing nothing. I doubt you care what my belief of the matter is.



Just because Ron Paul says something doesn't make it true. The man wasn't sent to a "death cage" by the govt because life itself is a death cage. The man was 87 yrs old with lung cancer, he did not have a good prospects of living a long life with that diagnosis. So the govt did not kill him, he died of lung cancer.

[juleswin]

Cuz I felt like it, Ed.

Gotcha, Ewnc.

[angelatc]

Not going to lie and say the irony escaped me that this could well be a bunch of snowflake liberals who want every govt program expanded, but really the beauty is that the freedom idea is gaining some ground in people's minds.

Better than a riot in the streets.

Well, I hope you're right. But history says you're not.

[angelatc]

Just because Ron Paul says something doesn't make it true. The man wasn't sent to a "death cage" by the govt because life itself is a death cage. The man was 87 yrs old with lung cancer, he did not have a good prospects of living a long life with that diagnosis. So the govt did not kill him, he died of lung cancer.

The simple point that I was making remains. He died in prison because he did not pay income taxes.

[juleswin]

The simple point that I was making remains. He died in prison because he did not pay income taxes.

Very true, but he was also 87 yrs old battling lung cancer. Also, I never argued against that point, he broke the law and was all up in the FEDs face about it. My issue was with the people who say he was imprisoned for writing a book.