Steve Bannon: American Patriot

[Gumba of Liberty]

Sounds to me like Bannon is on our side. If you disagree with me please quote the part of his speech that offends you and post it below. In my eyes, thr man is certified (4th turning) Liberty Movement Patriot. For those about to respond in outrage, please remember that the Jeffersonians and Hamiltonians (Bannon) won the Revolutionary War together. We can fight the nationalism/individualism debate after we defeat the globalists. Enjoy.


https://youtu.be/7nTd2ZAX_tc

[Gumba of Liberty]

So I make a rational point and in return the thread receives one (anonymous) star without anyone man enough to refute my arguments with facts. This place is run by children.

[P3ter_Griffin]

I can't find a way to zero star it? Can anyone help me out?

[undergroundrr]

-1 star? Is there some special cheat code for that?

Well, Not anxious to see Bannon talk for >23 min. I've tried that before.

But to underline the OP's point, we certainly know he's not an Iran patriot. On the other hand, he does seem to be an Israel patriot.

[TheCount]

We can fight the nationalism/individualism debate after we defeat the globalists.Bullshit. Half of the ways that the nationalists wish to 'defeat' globalism involve the loss of liberty.

[Gumba of Liberty]

-1 star? Is there some special cheat code for that?

Well, Not anxious to see Bannon talk for >23 min. I've tried that before.

But to underline the OP's point, we certainly know he's not an Iran patriot. On the other hand, he does seem to be an Israel patriot.

Critical thinking is hard. I'm sorry for pushing you to support your arguments, my apology.

[Gumba of Liberty]

Bull$#@!. Half of the ways that the nationalists wish to 'defeat' globalism involve the loss of liberty.

Name them (the liberties lost) to the nationalists. A new one; not one the globalist had already taken.

[P3ter_Griffin]

I really think that the number of individualist/property right advocates are so small that it makes more sense for the nationalist to go after the union leftist-- and on the grander scale for whichever party the nationalist are running as to go after the unions themselves. And by 'go after' I mean attempt to court into a winning coalition. There is a lot of overlap of governmental desires between the parties. If the objective is winning I don't see the purpose in nationalist engaging/giving a shit about the individualist.? my $.02.

[TheCount]

Name them (the liberties lost) to the nationalists.Privacy.


A new one; not one the globalist had already taken.

Pointing out the absolutely true fact that nationalists and globalists both want to take away the same rights makes your case worse, not better.

[phill4paul]

Name them (the liberties lost) to the nationalists. A new one; not one the globalist had already taken.

Income?

[Gumba of Liberty]

I really think that the number of individualist/property right advocates are so small that it makes more sense for the nationalist to go after the union leftist-- and on the grander scale for whichever party the nationalist are running as to go after the unions themselves. And by 'go after' I mean attempt to court into a winning coalition. There is a lot of overlap of governmental desires between the parties. If the objective is winning I don't see the purpose in nationalist engaging/giving a $#@! about the individualist.? my $.02.

I agree with you, generally, that nationalist and trade-unionists are natural allies in most European nations, but in US most nationalist have a truly Constitutional character and if it were not for brainwashing would be great allies in restoring the Constitution (even if we really want to devolve power further). It's helpful to remember that not all nationalists are created equal. Most nationalist are National Socialists (Nazis committed to the greater good, these are really bad guys) but in the U.S. there are many more Constitutional (Jacksonian) Nationalists who want a unified America under the Constituion. Bannon is one of these men and we could use his help.

[Gumba of Liberty]

Income?

Is Bannon the guy who set the taxes rates or the one who is trying to lower them?

[phill4paul]

Most nationalist are National Socialists (Nazis committed to the greater good, these are really bad guys) but in the U.S. there are many more Constitutional (Jacksonian) Nationalists who want a unified America under the Constituion.

How much more "unified" do you think we need to be? Considering where we are now, as opposed to 1789?

[phill4paul]

Is Bannon the guy who set the taxes rates or the one who is trying to lower them?

I've never heard him say he wants to end the Federal income tax. Please note the time of his pronouncement in this video.

[TheCount]

Is Bannon the guy who set the taxes rates or the one who is trying to lower them?
Steve Bannon wants to greatly expand government spending. Whatever he says about income taxes, the American people are going to pay for that spending in one way or another.

[Gumba of Liberty]

Privacy.



Pointing out the absolutely true fact that nationalists and globalists both want to take away the same rights makes your case worse, not better.

No, the globalist want more Rights than the natioonalists do. They want to run my life from Geneva, Brussels, London and NY. I'm sorry, I have the Right to not live under globalist cartel hell bent on world domination. I know my enemy and Steve Bannon is not one of them. If you listen to him speak (your conditioning might be challenged and) you might agree.

[Gumba of Liberty]

How much more "unified" do you think we need to be? Considering where we are now, as opposed to 1789?

If you think American is a unified nation, today, we live in different countries.

[Gumba of Liberty]

I've never heard him say he wants to end the Federal income tax. Please note the time of his pronouncement in this video.

I didn't say he did. Rand didn't either. Btw, you think Dr. Paul would have been able to end the income tax in a month? What kind of crazy argument is it that Bannon has some how violated your Rights by trying in vain to restore them? The guy wants to lower your taxes and people use that as a way to say that Bannon is out to get you. Same should go for the medical marijuana programs that violate your Rights to smoke whatever you want. Give me a break and watch the video.

[Gumba of Liberty]

Steve Bannon wants to greatly expand government spending. Whatever he says about income taxes, the American people are going to pay for that spending in one way or another.

He also believe the economy from 1987-2008 was a Wall Street (privatizing profits/socializing losses) pyramid scheme. Maybe he confiscates the money from Wallstreet? Maybe they run up the debt and default? Either way, it could be done without raising taxes even though I wouldn't do it.

[phill4paul]

If you think American is a unified nation, today, we live in different countries.

Much more "unified" under Federal control i.e. Nationalist. Much more. If you have been here for 6 years and still don't get that then I can't help you.

[Gumba of Liberty]

Much more "unified" under Federal control i.e. Nationalist. Much more. If you have been here for 6 years and still don't get that then I can't help you.

America is a shell of her former self. Mortally wounded in 1865. Captured by the British/European Bankers 1913. We have been a globalist controlled entity ever since.

[Gumba of Liberty]

Also a Nation is different from a State. America was a unitary district controlled and manipulated by globalists. When The Trump nationalists took power the globalists declare war. We will see who wins. But as a nation, a group of people with a common identity, we may no longer exist.

[Gumba of Liberty]

Btw, it's been almost two hours and no quotes. I expected more gentlemen.

[presence]

1) Bannon wants US Navy to kick China off the Spratly's
2) Bannon wants to continue to middle east War theatre with boots
3) Bannon flatly believes muslims shouldn't live in the US and none of them are peaceful
4) Bannon supports "economic nationalism" as opposed to free markets
5) "I'm the guy pushing a trillion-dollar infrastructure plan."
6) 10k new immigraiton officers and 5k new border patrol at $200k/year each... Bannon's ideas

none of which are liberty leaning positions

Bannon is a multi theatre war, anti free market immigration, and government job monger.

[Gumba of Liberty]

1) Bannon wants US Navy to kick China off the Spratly's
2) Bannon wants to continue to middle east War theatre with boots
3) Bannon flatly believes muslims shouldn't live in the US and none of them are peaceful
4) Bannon supports "economic nationalism" as opposed to free markets
5) "I'm the guy pushing a trillion-dollar infrastructure plan."
6) 10k new immigraiton officers and 5k new border patrol at $200k/year each... Bannon's ideas

none of which are liberty leaning positions

It you could answer the following I would really appreciate it.

1) Do you have proof that Bannon is behind this and not Flynn? If you have proof send it my way. I am interested.
2) Again, besides targeting ISIS (CIA), do you have proof Bannon wants to expand the wars (against Iran or whoever) in the Middle East?
3) Proof?
4) Bannon definitely supports the American System, for sure. High Tariffs, National Bank (Not Globalist Controlled) & Internal Improvements. (Hamilton, Clay, Lincoln, etc.) These are all terrible ideas but atleast they semi-passed for Constitutional (the National Bank is definitly not) at the founding of our Confederated-Republic and I would rather debate their merits than debate a globalist who wants to destroy the Constitution and create a global government.
5) True.
6) Personally, the only place I believe Federal Troops (and government) should be is on the borders of the Union. I would much rather him put the Army on the borders and skip the application process but, if he does support this, I believe this is only a major issue if you can prove #2.

Hey I appreciate the debate. Finally someone with balls.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Steve Bannon wants to greatly expand government spending.


So do you. You voted Obama twice and for Thomas Dixon, right? Here's are quotes from Thomas Dixon when he ran for the Democratic senate seat:


"The Federal Minimum Wage must be raised to $15 an hour to provide a living wage for all workers."

"Brady Background Checks need to be expanded to cover all gun sales regardless of where they occur and whom they are between."

"Obamacare needs to be protected and expanded to cover all Americans that still do not have health coverage."





Sources below.







http://www.ontheissues.org/Archive/2016_Senate_Web_Jobs.htm

https://votesmart.org/public-statement/1111352/issue-position-gun-violence-prevention#.WKEMF39cIkg

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Bullshit. Half of the ways that the nationalists wish to 'defeat' globalism involve the loss of liberty.


How does you voting Obama and Thomas Dixon advance liberty? You care about liberty? :confused:

[robert68]

..

[spudea]

Btw, it's been almost two hours and no quotes. I expected more gentlemen.

He stated he respects Bill Krystal. PUKE!! Otherwise it was an interesting speech. Thanks for sharing.

[Gumba of Liberty]

He stated he respects Bill Krystal. PUKE!! Otherwise it was an interesting speech. Thanks for sharing.

You are dead on about that, Billy K is Satan. You're very welcome.

[nikcers]

We wouldn't even know who Steve Bannon is if Mitt Romney would of Won. He was planning on building a bunch of tanks and taking them into east Germany to protect them from Russia. It looks like Reince Priebus got the last laugh. MAGA

[presence]

It you could answer the following I would really appreciate it.


1) Do you have proof that Bannon is behind this and not Flynn? If you have proof send it my way. I am interested.

“We're going to war in the South China Sea in five to 10 years, aren't we?


The Trump administration’s chief strategist has already taken control of both policy and process on national security.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/01/30/steve-bannon-is-making-sure-theres-no-white-house-paper-trail-trump-president/


Bannon — who famously compared himself (http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/darkness-is-good-trump-chief-strategist-steve-bannon-compares-himself-to-dick-cheney-and-satan/) to Star Wars villain Darth Vader, former Republican Vice President Dick Cheney and Satan — has already exerted a heavy hand over the formulation Trump’s foreign policy agenda, aides say, and is extending his influence ever deeper into the administration’s workings.
http://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/trump-boots-top-officials-but-includes-steve-bannon-in-reshuffled-national-security-council/


President Donald Trump granted controversial adviser Steve Bannon (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/stephen-bannon) a regular seat at meetings of the National Security Council on Saturday, in a presidential memorandum that brought the former Breitbart publisher into some of the most sensitive meetings at the highest levels of government.https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/28/lobbying-ban-trump-executive-order-isis-strategy



2) Again, besides targeting ISIS (CIA), do you have proof Bannon wants to expand the wars (against Iran or whoever) in the Middle East?





3) Proof?


As Tensions Rise, Steve Bannon and ISIS Get Closer to Their Common Goal: Civilizational War (https://theintercept.com/2017/02/11/as-tensions-rise-steve-bannon-and-isis-get-closer-to-their-common-goal-civilizational-war/)https://prod01-cdn07.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/2014/02/Murtaza-Hussain-Hi-Res-Original_350.jpg (https://theintercept.com/staff/murtaza-hussain/)
Murtaza Hussain (https://theintercept.com/staff/murtaza-hussain/)

February 11 2017, 9:05 a.m.

The Trump administration has taken sweeping, drastic measures that it says are necessary to protect Americans from the threat of terrorism, including its executive order halting immigration from seven Muslim-majority countries. But the radical policies and beliefs of this administration could just as easily end up fueling the narratives of extremist groups fighting the United States. When Trump ran a campaign built on promises to destroy ISIS, how can one explain the fact that supporters of the group in Mosul were reportedly (https://www.yahoo.com/news/isis-reportedly-calling-trumps-travel-192704284.html) celebrating his Muslim ban?

https://theintercept.com/2017/02/11/as-tensions-rise-steve-bannon-and-isis-get-closer-to-their-common-goal-civilizational-war/


Stephen Bannon has warned that Islam is “the most radical” religion in the world and that the United States is engaged in a struggle for civilization against Islamists.

Recordings show many of the newly-installed Trump figures who made regular appearances on Bannon’s show share the host’s ominous views on Islam and a hard-line stance on legal and illegal immigration that is at odds with decades of U.S. domestic and foreign policy.
USA TODAY


Steve Bannon, the Trump adviser who helped craft the "Muslim ban,"
[]
Bannon personally spearheaded the order — and then overrode objections from the Department of Homeland Security that would have softened it somewhat:

http://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/29/14431332/steve-bannon-muslim-refugee-ban-explained



4) Bannon definitely supports the American System, for sure. High Tariffs, National Bank (Not Globalist Controlled) & Internal Improvements. (Hamilton, Clay, Lincoln, etc.) These are all terrible ideas but atleast they semi-passed for Constitutional (the National Bank is definitly not) at the founding of our Confederated-Republic and I would rather debate their merits than debate a globalist who wants to destroy the Constitution and create a global government.




5) True.
ok then


6) Personally, the only place I believe Federal Troops (and government) should be is on the borders of the Union. I would much rather him put the Army on the borders and skip the application process but, if he does support this, I believe this is only a major issue if you can prove #2.

personally choosing between a junta of nationalists vs a junta of globalists



Hey I appreciate the debate. Finally someone with balls.

wait till you've traded crypto for a few few years before making statements about balls

:D




Is Trump's Deliberate Constitutional Crisis the First Stages of Coup? It's hard to see last week as anything other than the prep work for a massive power grab by people who despise the rule of law.

Justin Rosario (http://thedailybanter.com/author/justin-rosario/) Jan 30, 2017


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https://thedailybanter.com/.image/c_fill,cs_srgb,dpr_1.0,g_face,h_150,q_80,w_200/MTQ0OTk5ODg5MzMwMjUxNDkz/police-ice-immigration-and-customs-enforcement.jpg (http://thedailybanter.com/2017/02/ice-lying/)

Politics (http://thedailybanter.com/politics/)
ICE Spent A Week Lying To The Public With Trumplike Disregard For Transparency (http://thedailybanter.com/2017/02/ice-lying/)



Culture (http://thedailybanter.com/culture/)
Islamic Studies Professor On Whether Rape and Slavery Are Wrong: It Depends (http://thedailybanter.com/2017/02/islamic-studies-professor-on-whether-rape-and-slavery-are-wrong-it-depends/)



Politics (http://thedailybanter.com/politics/)
Republicans Are On The Run From Liberal Protesters (Sometimes Literally) (http://thedailybanter.com/2017/02/republicans-hiding-from-protesters/)





https://thedailybanter.com/.image/c_fit,cs_srgb,dpr_1.0,q_80,w_620/MTQ0NzE2Nzc3NzAyNTY0OTk2/1102774-11-20170127190853.jpg
It might be comforting to believe that Trump accidentally stumbled into a constitutional crisis his first week in office, but it's far more likely that this is a test. And if we as a country fail it, our system of checks and balances takes one enormous step closer to collapsing.
Trump is a buffoon. We know this (http://leftwingnation.org/white-house-staff-forced-to-babysit-trump-he-gets-bored-and-likes-to-watch-tv/). He's incapable of leading the country in any capacity whatsoever. But he's not in charge. White nationalist Steve Bannon is (http://thedailybanter.com/2017/01/donald-trump-is-a-puppet/) and like most white nationalists, Bannon has no use for the Constitution or the rule of law. To this end, Bannon almost certainly engineered the Muslim ban knowing the courts would immediately move to strike it down. CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/donald-trump-travel-ban/)'s interpretation is that Trump's administration is comprised of political amateurs who didn't necessarily understand the confusion the illegal executive order would generate but that it a very generous take on what happened last week. A piece by Yonatan Zunger (https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.u3q5tyoan) has a much dimmer view of this potential coup but it lists a cabal of bad actors that include Trump and Reince Preibus being active players, which seems unlikely. As I wrote about last week, Donald Trump is Steve Bannon's puppet (http://thedailybanter.com/2017/01/donald-trump-is-a-puppet/) so that's who we have to look to for answers.
The fact that so many Homeland Security and border patrol officials are ignoring the various court orders (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/29/customs-border-protection-agents-trump-muslim-country-travel-ban) blocking the ban is troubling. But the fact that Trump's (Bannon's) administration is not telling them to stand down is dangerous and incredibly telling. This means that Trump (Bannon) is deliberately testing the waters to see how much of the law enforcement apparatus under his control will obey illegal executive decrees. By muddying the waters and sowing the maximum amount of confusion by not making the parameters of the executive order clear, Trump (Bannon) will find out how law enforcement will act under duress. If they're willing to "just follow orders," then we enter the death spiral of our constitutional republic with the end result being the very dictatorship the Constitution explicitly exists to prevent.
Another fact that points to Trump (Bannon) looking to do away with the power of the judiciary is this (Since this writing, the link (https://www.whitehouse.gov/1600/judicial-branch) has been restored but it's still unclear why it was missing in the first place):

It might seem like a minor detail but it speaks volumes about Trump's (Bannon's) contempt for the checks and balances that are supposed to keep him from being a king. By design, judges are not subject to the whims of the Executive Branch and cannot be removed from the bench easily. That leaves Trump (Bannon) no choice but to ignore them. If law enforcement follows his lead, the courts will be rendered powerless.
The Republicans controlling Congress can put a stop to this power grab but aside from Lindsay Graham, John McCain (http://leftwingnation.org/republicans-dont-have-the-balls-to-oppose-trumps-unconstitutional-muslim-ban/) and a scant few others, congressional Republicans are either supporting Trump or oddly indifferent. The basic calculus seems to be that it's better to see if Trump wins so they can curry favor from their new overlord. A lot of people have been comparing the GOP's cowardice to the failure of Germany's Parliament (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/07/donald-trump-and-hitlers-rise-to-power.html) to rein in Hitler because they're following the same pattern for the same reason: They think they can either control or get rid of Trump (Bannon) any time they want.
But if Trump (Bannon) is able to command blind obedience from law enforcement, who will stop him when he disregards the court's orders? Who will stop him when he ignores Congress? Who will stop him at all?
It's been just ten days since Trump (Bannon) took power and we're already on the brink of disaster. Even if this ploy doesn't work out, Trump (Bannon) will continue to set up confrontations with the judiciary, making it easier each time for law enforcement to ignore court orders and normalizing the power grab in the public's mind.
The question now become: How much erosion of our democracy and civil rights (http://thedailybanter.com/2017/01/trumps-immigrants-list-fascism/) will the so-called "patriots" of the right accept in the name of "safety" and white supremacy? Unfortunately, history's already given us that answer. (http://thedailybanter.com/2016/11/donald-trump-terror-attack/)
- This article kills fascists
Please consider becoming a paid member (http://www.banterm.com/become-a-member/) of The Daily Banter and supporting us in holding the Trump administration to account. Your help is needed more than ever, and is greatly appreciated.

TagsDonald Trump (http://thedailybanter.com/tag/donald-trump/)Executive Orders (http://thedailybanter.com/tag/executive-orders/)Reince Priebus (http://thedailybanter.com/tag/reince-priebus/)Steve Bannon (http://thedailybanter.com/tag/steve-bannon/)White Nationalism (http://thedailybanter.com/tag/white-nationalism/)Muslim Ban (http://thedailybanter.com/tag/muslim-ban/)





[editing]

[TheCount]

Maybe he confiscates the money from Wallstreet?

Wall Street's money isn't theirs. The people will still pay for it.

Also, ooo, nationalizing the financial sector? How delightfully South American. Another example of how the far right is also the far left.


Maybe they run up the debt and default?
Government's money isn't theirs. People still pay for it.


Either way, it could be done without raising taxes even though I wouldn't do it.You obviously didn't understand my post. There are ways that the American people pay for government spending which do not involve taxes. Inflation, for one.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Either way, it could be done without raising taxes even though I wouldn't do it.






You obviously didn't understand my post. .







Communication is a two way street. Maybe you need to improve your articulation.

Or, maybe people misunderstand you because you voted for Obama and Thomas Dixon and put "supporting member" in your avatar. :rolleyes:

[dannno]

3) Bannon flatly believes muslims shouldn't live in the US and none of them are peaceful


I did not see any evidence for this other than some very broad hear-say.

[undergroundrr]

Critical thinking is hard. I'm sorry for pushing you to support your arguments, my apology.

No, critical thinking is required for the OP to distill and type the main points of the video that were so uber-inspiring to him and subject them to subsequent discussion. Asking us to spend 23 minutes with his honeyed voice and Cicero-like oratory while saying "Ain't that great" is the exact opposite.



Captured by the British/European Bankers 1913. We have been a globalist controlled entity ever since.

And you believe a guy who made his wealth at Goldman Sachs is going to fix that?

Does anybody question this guy's assisted rise to power?

Undistinguished navy career -> Goldman Sachs employee -> Hollywood executive -> Installed to replace mysteriously eliminated Andrew Breitbart -> National Security Council.

[Gumba of Liberty]

“We're going to war in the South China Sea in five to 10 years, aren't we?


http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/01/30/steve-bannon-is-making-sure-theres-no-white-house-paper-trail-trump-president/


http://www.rawstory.com/2017/01/trump-boots-top-officials-but-includes-steve-bannon-in-reshuffled-national-security-council/

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/28/lobbying-ban-trump-executive-order-isis-strategy








https://theintercept.com/2017/02/11/as-tensions-rise-steve-bannon-and-isis-get-closer-to-their-common-goal-civilizational-war/




http://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/29/14431332/steve-bannon-muslim-refugee-ban-explained







ok then


6) Personally, the only place I believe Federal Troops (and government) should be is on the borders of the Union. I would much rather him put the Army on the borders and skip the application process but, if he does support this, I believe this is only a major issue if you can prove #2.

personally choosing between a junta of nationalists vs a junta of globalists


wait till you've traded crypto for a few few years before making statements about balls

:D








[editing]

1. I need more context for the quote you provided. Where, when and in what context was Bannon speaking of going to war with China?
2. While you have provided a few links, I did not find one quote of Bannon explaining why we should expand the wars in the Middle East (excluding ISIS). If you have such a quote please provide it.
3. You did not prove that Bannon hates all Muslims. Provide a quote from Bannon himself. I'm not looking for secondary hear-say from a newspaper or website.

[Gumba of Liberty]

Wall Street's money isn't theirs. The people will still pay for it.

Also, ooo, nationalizing the financial sector? How delightfully South American. Another example of how the far right is also the far left.


Government's money isn't theirs. People still pay for it.

You obviously didn't understand my post. There are ways that the American people pay for government spending which do not involve taxes. Inflation, for one.

Wall Street extracts wealth from the American People, I'm not making this up. Audit the Fed (Wall Street) and confiscate fraudulently stolen assets. While I wouldn't use the trillions stolen from the Fed to rebuild infrastruture, I would rather fight a nationalist who wants to rebuild the country rather than a globalist who would want us like Venezula.

[Gumba of Liberty]

No, critical thinking is required for the OP to distill and type the main points of the video that were so uber-inspiring to him and subject them to subsequent discussion. Asking us to spend 23 minutes with his honeyed voice and Cicero-like oratory while saying "Ain't that great" is the exact opposite.




And you believe a guy who made his wealth at Goldman Sachs is going to fix that?

Does anybody question this guy's assisted rise to power?

Undistinguished navy career -> Goldman Sachs employee -> Hollywood executive -> Installed to replace mysteriously eliminated Andrew Breitbart -> National Security Council.

I'm sorry I didn't break it down for you (poor baby). I thought grow men with such strong opinions had the capability to listen to the actual words and thoughts of people they disagree with. I didn't realize that everyone on this forum bought the media line on Bannon and, like the democrats, would refuse to even hear the man out. But no, my mistake for not providing you notes :rolleyes:

[presence]

3. You did not prove that Bannon hates all Muslims. Provide a quote from Bannon himself. I'm not looking for secondary hear-say from a newspaper or website.


“These are not Jeffersonian democrats,” he said of immigrants to Europe from Muslim majority countries in April of last year (https://soundcloud.com/breitbart/breitbart-news-daily-dr-thomas-d-williams-april-7-2016#t=2:14). “These are not people with thousands of years of democracy in their DNA coming up here.”[]“I think that most people in the Middle East, at least 50%, believe in being sharia-compliant,” Bannon said in December 2015 (https://soundcloud.com/breitbart/breitbart-news-daily-rosemary-jenks-december-8-2015#t=5:35). “If you're sharia-compliant or want to impose sharia law, the United States is the wrong place for you."


Susan Hennessey, a former lawyer for the National Security Agency, said Bannon appears to misunderstand the basic features of sharia and seems to use the term “sharia-compliant” as shorthand for observant Muslim. “Listening to his words carefully, he is saying observant Muslims don’t belong in the U.S. and isn’t modifying that statement to be about immigrants,” she said. “Plenty of natural-born American citizens are observant Muslims. Those people are every bit as American as Steve Bannon is, and they have real reason to fear his role in the White House.”





“If we didn’t hit the pause button today, is it already locked up that we’re going to be importing at least a couple of million Muslims whatever happens?”


“To be brutally frank, I mean Christianity is dying in Europe, and Islam is on the rise,” he said in an interview in January 2016 with a Breitbart reporter (https://soundcloud.com/breitbart/breitbart-news-daily-dr-thomas-d-williams-january-19-2016?in=breitbart/sets/breitbart-news-daily-43#t=0:11).
In November 2015, Bannon told his listeners it was time to have an “adult conversation” about national security.
“Some of these situations may get a little unpleasant,” Bannon said. “But you know what, we’re in a war. We’re clearly going into, I think, a major shooting war in the Middle East again (https://soundcloud.com/breitbart/breitbart-news-daily-brandon-darby-bob-price-november-27-2015#t=5:12).”


“Our big belief, one of our central organizing principles at the site, is that we’re at war (https://soundcloud.com/breitbart/breitbart-news-daily-aaron-klein-november-17-2015#t=5:44),” he said.

"It's war. It's war (https://soundcloud.com/breitbart/breitbart-breitbart-news-daily-katie-gorka-december-4-2015#t=3:47). Every day, we put up: America's at war, America's at war. We're at war,”


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/01/31/bannon-odds-islam-china-decades-us-foreign-policy-doctrine/97292068/



"Islam is not a religion of peace. Islam is a religion of submission. Islam means submission,"
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/31/politics/kfile-bannon-on-islam/index.html


Bannon's comments largely mirror the worldview expressed by Trump's National Security Adviser Mike Flynn, who has said he considered himself "at war with Islam or a component of Islam" after years of military service. He also referred to the religion as "a cancer."

[]

"The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam," Bush said. "That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war."
Bannon called Bush "one of the dumbest presidents in the history of these United States."
"He made the dumbest [comment] being that Islam is a religion of peace," Bannon said.

[]


The road to the establishment of an Islamic Republic in the United States starts slowly and subtly with the loss of the will to win. The road to this unique hell on earth is paved with the best intentions from our major institutions. This political/accommodation/appeasement approach is not simply a function of any one individual’s actions but lies at the heart of our most important cultural and political institutions.

[]

We’re at the very beginning stages of a very brutal and bloody conflict, of which if the people in this room, and people in the church, do not bind together and really form what I feel is an aspect of the church militant, to really be able to not just stand with our beliefs against but to fight for our beliefs this this new barbarity that’s starting, uh that we will literally eradicate everything we’ve been bequeathed over the last 2,000 and 2,500 years.


there’s clearly a fifth column here in the United States – that needs to be dealt with immediately


http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/steve-bannon-fire-past-comments-islam/story?id=45193278

[Gumba of Liberty]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/01/31/bannon-odds-islam-china-decades-us-foreign-policy-doctrine/97292068/



http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/31/politics/kfile-bannon-on-islam/index.html


http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/steve-bannon-fire-past-comments-islam/story?id=45193278

I still don't see anything controversial that Bannon has said. He isn't wrong when he says Islam is a religion of submission. Islam means submission (to God, to the Koran, etc). He isn't wrong when he says that half of the Islamic community in the ME wants to live and observe Shira Law (opposed to Constituional Law or Natural Law - these are not libertarians) and their beliefs may be in conflict with American law and principles. He's also not wrong that war in the Middle East could expand. I don't see any quotes where he is advocated for it. You can't blame the guy for believing it could happen anyway. If you have a direct quote of Bannon supporting military intervention, sans ISIS (CIA), I would love to see it. Thanks.

[TheCount]

Wall Street extracts wealth from the American People, I'm not making this up.

That's what I just said.


Audit the Fed (Wall Street) and confiscate fraudulently stolen assets.

The Fed is not Wall Street.

If the Fed is propping up Wall Street, it is doing it by purchasing assets, not giving cash donations.

If you were to audit the Fed, discover improper support, and then remove that support, who precisely do you think is going to most feel the results of that? Wall Street? Are you out of your goddamn mind? No, just like during the financial crisis, it will be the American people who will suffer most.

Back to your so-called plan, let's think about this for a minute: you're going to "steal back" Fed money that has been spent on assets that should be (and would be, the second the news broke) worthless. How much do you think you're going to get by selling those?

Oh, and also... That's still government money and government spending. Spending trillions of Fed money on a wall for retards is not functionally different from spending the same amount propping up Wall Street. Who pays for this magical free money? The American people.

Your concept of a free lunch at the expense of the government is a pipe dream.

[nikcers]

That's what I just said.



Your concept of a free lunch at the expense of the government is a pipe dream.
I'm sorry I didn't break it down for you (poor baby). I thought grow men with such strong opinions had the capability to listen to the actual words and thoughts of people they disagree with. I didn't realize that everyone on this forum bought the media line on a free lunch, like the democrats, would refuse to even hear the man out. But no, my mistake for not providing you notes :toady:

[presence]

Cromwell had been responsible for translating

royal supremacy into parliamentary terms
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cromwell


I am Thomas Cromwell in the court of the Tudors

- Bannon
[]agent of the despotic King Henry VIII

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bannon-explained-his-worldview-well-before-it-became-official-us-policy/2017/01/31/2f4102ac-e7ca-11e6-80c2-30e57e57e05d_story.html


Henry is known for his radical changes to the English Constitution (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Constitution_of_the_United_Kingdom) , ushering in the theory of the divine right of kings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_right_of_kings) to England. Besides asserting the sovereign's supremacy over the Church of England, he greatly expanded royal power during his reign. Charges of treason and heresy were commonly used to quash dissent, and those accused were often executed without a formal trial,

by means of bills of attainder (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_attainder).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_VIII_of_England


No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.
Article I, Section 9, paragraph 3


A difference emerged between the financial health of the king, and that of the country,

[Gumba of Liberty]

That's what I just said.



The Fed is not Wall Street.

If the Fed is propping up Wall Street, it is doing it by purchasing assets, not giving cash donations.

If you were to audit the Fed, discover improper support, and then remove that support, who precisely do you think is going to most feel the results of that? Wall Street? Are you out of your goddamn mind? No, just like during the financial crisis, it will be the American people who will suffer most.

Back to your so-called plan, let's think about this for a minute: you're going to "steal back" Fed money that has been spent on assets that should be (and would be, the second the news broke) worthless. How much do you think you're going to get by selling those?

Oh, and also... That's still government money and government spending. Spending trillions of Fed money on a wall for retards is not functionally different from spending the same amount propping up Wall Street. Who pays for this magical free money? The American people.

Your concept of a free lunch at the expense of the government is a pipe dream.

Your view of Wall Street is blind to the real power players. The Fed is owned by shareholders. These shareholders are Wall Street Banking Families. Audit the Fed. Find out how many trillions of dollars in gold, silver, land, infrstructure and businessess these Banking Families have stolen. Confiscate these funds. Pay off the National Debt. If Bannon wants to use one trillion (of many) repatriated from the Fed to rebuild US Infrastructure i will disagree with him but I will support his efforts to destory the globalist grip on power. With your logic, you would have supported the British overthrow of Mossadeq in 1953 because he was trying to nationalize Iranian Oil Fields and prevent the British from stealing Iranian Oil. Nationalists are ALWAYS > Globalists. Sorry.

[jllundqu]

My comments are based on the video and the video alone. I thought the video was great. Nothing he said was out of step from what Ron Paul or other liberty advocates have been speaking and warning about for years.

I didn't vote for Trump, but jeez at least be able to listen to a speech without hysterics.

Furthermore, I still have not seen/read any material about Bannon that would show him to be the boogeyman every news outlet is claiming he is. If someone would kindly send me some links or info on Bannon (preferably not from Huffpo), I would appreciate it. I genuinely want to know this man's mind. If he's a racist white nationalist, I'd like to know it, but I have not seen anything that would lead me to that conclusion.

[Gumba of Liberty]

I'm sorry I didn't break it down for you (poor baby). I thought grow men with such strong opinions had the capability to listen to the actual words and thoughts of people they disagree with. I didn't realize that everyone on this forum bought the media line on a free lunch, like the democrats, would refuse to even hear the man out. But no, my mistake for not providing you notes :toady:

Free lunch? So, if Bannon convinced Trump to 1. Sign Audit the Fed (Great) 2. Order the Justice Department to arrest and hang the bankers (Great) 3. confiscate their assets (Fantastic!) and 4. Return them to the taxpayers (The dream). You're mad that Bannon might use (a percentage of) the money for infrastructure projects? Picky much? The Fed has been stealing from Americans for over 100 years, these banking families have more wealth than the rest of the world. The US is either going to declare war on the bankers and reclaim the republic (American Revolution/Andrew Jackson style) or it will default on the debt, eventually. Either way, bankers or bond-holders will pay for the infrastructure. As a former banker, Bannon gets this (See Generation Zero for more).

[Brian4Liberty]

Like him or not, Bannon is in the crosshairs of the left and the neoconservatives. Smear campaign in full effect.

[presence]

Nationalists are ALWAYS > Globalists. Sorry.

Why when anti immigrant alt-right national socialists come to ronpaulforums they always co-opt Something-Liberty for their screen name?

why not Gumba of Nationalism, Restoration of Nationalism, etc.?

[Gumba of Liberty]

Why when anti immigrant alt-right national socialists come to ronpaulforums they always co-opt Something-Liberty for their screen name?

why not Gumba of Nationalism, Restoration of Nationalism, etc.?



Individualism > Localism > Nationalism > Globalism.

Classic Jeffersonian thinking if you understand it. I will align with nationalists to fight globalists. When the globalist are defeated, I will align with localists to fight nationalists. When the localists are defeated (or, at that point, I could probably just move to a freedom-loving locality), I will fight for complete and absolute individual sovreignty. Remember to play the long game. Your opponents are.

[Superfluous Man]

We can fight the nationalism/individualism debate after we defeat the globalists.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dH3_Lcfeac

[Superfluous Man]

Also, what does 4th turning mean?

Is that a Mormon idea?

[Gumba of Liberty]

Also, what does 4th turning mean?

Is that a Mormon idea?

https://www.amazon.com/Fourth-Turning-American-Prophecy-Rendezvous/dp/0767900464/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487004140&sr=8-1&keywords=the+fourth+turning

[Gumba of Liberty]

My comments are based on the video and the video alone. I thought the video was great. Nothing he said was out of step from what Ron Paul or other liberty advocates have been speaking and warning about for years.

I didn't vote for Trump, but jeez at least be able to listen to a speech without hysterics.

Furthermore, I still have not seen/read any material about Bannon that would show him to be the boogeyman every news outlet is claiming he is. If someone would kindly send me some links or info on Bannon (preferably not from Huffpo), I would appreciate it. I genuinely want to know this man's mind. If he's a racist white nationalist, I'd like to know it, but I have not seen anything that would lead me to that conclusion.

+1

[undergroundrr]

Also, what does 4th turning mean?

Is that a Mormon idea?

Howe and Strauss. Another standard text for the alt-right.

I'll stick with Bastiat and Mises, thanks.

[Gumba of Liberty]

Howe and Strauss. Another standard text for the alt-right.

I'll stick with Bastiat and Mises, thanks.

I'll read both and be better for it.

[Gumba of Liberty]

Howe and Strauss. Another standard text for the alt-right.

I'll stick with Bastiat and Mises, thanks.

Also, I would love it if you could define this "alt-right" for me. Sound like some buzz word thrown out by the MSM to confuse and divide the simpletons. Don't get me wrong, I do believe "right" and "left" are important... when using GPS :rolleyes:

[undergroundrr]

I'm sorry I didn't break it down for you (poor baby). I thought grow men with such strong opinions had the capability to listen to the actual words and thoughts of people they disagree with. I didn't realize that everyone on this forum bought the media line on Bannon and, like the democrats, would refuse to even hear the man out. But no, my mistake for not providing you notes :rolleyes:

Sorry, drive-by Youtube bombing is one of my pet peeves. People who can't think for themselves throw lengthy diatribes by Molyneux, Bannon, whoever in your face and challenge you to watch it, never willing to state for themselves the ideas contained therein.

So I'll give you a Bannon video I brought up in another thread. It's 6 minutes shorter than yours -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6H1adN4V_Y

And I'm glad to break it down for you if you don't have time to watch.


The new guy on the Principals Committee of the National Security Council HATES Iran.

Check out the blood-thirsty, slavering Islamo-hatred of Stephen Bannon and his Jihad Watch idol Robert Spencer in July 2016: "[Iran] is by far a greater enemy than the caliphate of ISIS, which is a mad, butchering murderous cult... [Iran a]re so out front by saying they're our mortal enemy, they're going to destroy us. It's in everything they talk about. They don't try to hide it. Why do we seem as a country and a nation incapable of accepting that and addressing it?... There are no [Iranian] moderates. The moderate guys are kinda crazy. The hardcore are really crazy."

Listen on as his guest goes on to say that Iran would be a total pushover in a military confrontation. Listen on as trump's right-hand man Bannon expresses his concern that US Military and Intelligence are systemically enabling Iran by not taking them seriously. Listen on as they scoff at US businesses who want to trade with Iran - "Are people looking the other way because of economic interests that they have in these sorts of relationships with people who are the sworn enemy of the United States of America?"

The guy's not even a free marketer.

Bannon is fundamentally against privacy and property rights.

Let's start with privacy. The man's main business interest since leaving Sachs has been Cambridge Analytica, a subsidiary of uber-DoD contractor and M-I Complex propagandist SCL Group. Cambridge Analytica, according to their CEO, has "somewhere close to four to five thousand data points on every individual... So we model the personality of every adult across the United States, some 230 million people. (http://news.sky.com/story/behind-the-scenes-at-donald-trumps-uk-digital-war-room-10626155/)". Have you ever heard Bannon say anything bad about the NSA? If so, please find me a link, because I've been desperately trying to prove myself wrong about this.

Anti-globalists' first crusade is always immigration. Bannon is their hero on this issue. Anti-immigration policies are fundamentally Marxist. Yes, I can throw out the old "USSR had closed borders" chestnut, but why not just go back to Marx himself?


...with classical liberal, neo-classical, Chicago school, Austrian, and even some Keynesian economists agreeing that relatively unfettered labor mobility maximizes economic growth. John Stuart Mill even went so far as to say that migration was “one of the primary sources of progress.” Adam Smith opposed mercantilist restrictions not just on capital, but on labor as well. Ludwig von Mises, the guru of the Austrian school, advocated a system of free trade where capital and labor would be employed wherever conditions are most favorable for production.

The one prominent exception was Karl Marx. Although he doesn’t seem to have treated this subject in a systematic way, his comments here and there suggest that he was no fan of immigration. For example, he regarded England’s decision to absorb the “surplus” Irishmen being driven out of their country during the Great Famine not as a benefit but a ploy by the English bourgeoisie to “force down wages and lower the material and moral position of the English working class.” The popular, modern-day restrictionist canard that immigration from the Third World to rich countries is tantamount to “importing poverty” has its genesis in Marxist thought. Indeed, far from being embarrassed by this lineage, restrictionists tout it. Consider this quote by Mark Krikorian of the Center for Immigration Studies, the premier restrictionist outfit in the country: “Employer organizations spend enormous resources lobbying the government to import a ‘reserve army of labor,’ to use Marx’s phrase, so that they can hold down their labor costs and avoid unionization.”

It is ironic that half of the public in the free world, including America, the land of immigrants, sides not with free-market economists like Adam Smith and Ludwig von Mises—but with Marx, the father of socialism.

http://reason.org/news/show/immigration-policy-open-borders

Anti-immigration policies are a direct violation of your property rights. If I TRULY own my property, I should be able to invite my Iranian citizen friend to fly from Tehran and hang out at my house any time I want. If his country prohibits that, then they suck and are anti-liberty. If MY country prohibits that, then it's the American government that controls and owns my property, not me. Similarly, if I own a business, I should be able to hire ANYBODY I WANT WHENEVER I WANT FOR ANY POSITION I WANT AND ANY PAY I WANT, INCLUDING AN UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT. I think this is worth shouting.

Never try to imply anti-immigration rhetoric is pro-liberty. Fess up to what you really are.

I don't need to watch some political speech by Bannon. There are hours upon hours of his radio shows out there. He's stated his views clearly. And certain issues he hasn't commented on are conspicuous in their absence.

[undergroundrr]

Also, I would love it if you could define this "alt-right" for me. Sound like some buzz word thrown out by the MSM to confuse and divide the simpletons. Don't get me wrong, I do believe "right" and "left" are important... when using GPS :rolleyes:

Good to hear you reject the left-right paradigm. It's a start.

[Gumba of Liberty]

Sorry, drive-by Youtube bombing is one of my pet peeves. People who can't think for themselves throw lengthy diatribes by Molyneux, Bannon, whoever in your face and challenge you to watch it, never willing to state for themselves the ideas contained therein.

So I'll give you a Bannon video I brought up in another thread. It's 6 minutes shorter than yours -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6H1adN4V_Y

And I'm glad to break it down for you if you don't have time to watch.



The guy's not even a free marketer.

Bannon is fundamentally against privacy and property rights.

Let's start with privacy. The man's main business interest since leaving Sachs has been Cambridge Analytica, a subsidiary of uber-DoD contractor and M-I Complex propagandist SCL Group. Cambridge Analytica, according to their CEO, has "somewhere close to four to five thousand data points on every individual... So we model the personality of every adult across the United States, some 230 million people. (http://news.sky.com/story/behind-the-scenes-at-donald-trumps-uk-digital-war-room-10626155/)". Have you ever heard Bannon say anything bad about the NSA? If so, please find me a link, because I've been desperately trying to prove myself wrong about this.

Anti-globalists' first crusade is always immigration. Bannon is their hero on this issue. Anti-immigration policies are fundamentally Marxist. Yes, I can throw out the old "USSR had closed borders" chestnut, but why not just go back to Marx himself.



Anti-immigration policies are a direct violation of the property rights. If I TRULY own my property, I should be able to invite my Iranian citizen friend to fly from Tehran and hang out at my house any time I want. If his country prohibits that, then they suck and are anti-liberty. If MY country prohibits that, then it's the American government that controls and owns my property, not me. Similarly, if I own a business, I should be able to hire ANYBODY I WANT WHENEVER I WANT FOR ANY POSITION I WANT AND ANY PAY I WANT, INCLUDING AN UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT. I think this is worth shouting.

Never try to imply anti-immigration rhetoric is pro-liberty. Fess up to what you really are.

I don't need to watch some political speech by Bannon. There are hours upon hours of his radio shows out there. He's stated his views clearly. And certain issues he hasn't commented on are conspicuous in their absence.

Of course you don't. I'll respond to the rest later.

[TheCount]

Your view of Wall Street is blind to the real power players. The Fed is owned by shareholders. These shareholders are Wall Street Banking Families.

No, the shareholders are the member banks. It's in the charter. Try reading it.



Audit the Fed. Find out how many trillions of dollars in gold, silver, land, infrstructure and businessess these Banking Families have stolen. Confiscate these funds.

Yes, the Fed has detailed records on every penny the "Banking Families" have and exactly what has been purchased with it. :rolleyes:

Please PM me your dealer's contact info.



Pay off the National Debt.

Aaaahahahaha. Donald "Debt is Great, the US Should Borrow More While Rates Are Low" Trump is going to pay off the National Debt?

Steve "Throw a Trillion Against the Wall and See What Sticks" Bannon is going to pay off the National Debt?

This is a delusion, pure and simple.



Nationalists are ALWAYS > Globalists. Sorry.

No. Sorry.

[Madison320]

Bull$#@!. Half of the ways that the nationalists wish to 'defeat' globalism involve the loss of liberty.

You care about liberty? Let me ask you this. Do you think people who don't pay their taxes should be imprisoned? When it comes to loss of liberty nothing else comes close in my opinion, at least in the US.

[Gumba of Liberty]

Sorry, drive-by Youtube bombing is one of my pet peeves. People who can't think for themselves throw lengthy diatribes by Molyneux, Bannon, whoever in your face and challenge you to watch it, never willing to state for themselves the ideas contained therein.

So I'll give you a Bannon video I brought up in another thread. It's 6 minutes shorter than yours -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6H1adN4V_Y

And I'm glad to break it down for you if you don't have time to watch.



The guy's not even a free marketer.

Bannon is fundamentally against privacy and property rights.

Let's start with privacy. The man's main business interest since leaving Sachs has been Cambridge Analytica, a subsidiary of uber-DoD contractor and M-I Complex propagandist SCL Group. Cambridge Analytica, according to their CEO, has "somewhere close to four to five thousand data points on every individual... So we model the personality of every adult across the United States, some 230 million people. (http://news.sky.com/story/behind-the-scenes-at-donald-trumps-uk-digital-war-room-10626155/)". Have you ever heard Bannon say anything bad about the NSA? If so, please find me a link, because I've been desperately trying to prove myself wrong about this.

Anti-globalists' first crusade is always immigration. Bannon is their hero on this issue. Anti-immigration policies are fundamentally Marxist. Yes, I can throw out the old "USSR had closed borders" chestnut, but why not just go back to Marx himself?



http://reason.org/news/show/immigration-policy-open-borders

Anti-immigration policies are a direct violation of your property rights. If I TRULY own my property, I should be able to invite my Iranian citizen friend to fly from Tehran and hang out at my house any time I want. If his country prohibits that, then they suck and are anti-liberty. If MY country prohibits that, then it's the American government that controls and owns my property, not me. Similarly, if I own a business, I should be able to hire ANYBODY I WANT WHENEVER I WANT FOR ANY POSITION I WANT AND ANY PAY I WANT, INCLUDING AN UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT. I think this is worth shouting.

Never try to imply anti-immigration rhetoric is pro-liberty. Fess up to what you really are.

I don't need to watch some political speech by Bannon. There are hours upon hours of his radio shows out there. He's stated his views clearly. And certain issues he hasn't commented on are conspicuous in their absence.

I'll watch your video and get back to you. If Bannon wants war with Iran my position will change.

[Gumba of Liberty]

Sorry, drive-by Youtube bombing is one of my pet peeves. People who can't think for themselves throw lengthy diatribes by Molyneux, Bannon, whoever in your face and challenge you to watch it, never willing to state for themselves the ideas contained therein.

So I'll give you a Bannon video I brought up in another thread. It's 6 minutes shorter than yours -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6H1adN4V_Y

And I'm glad to break it down for you if you don't have time to watch.



The guy's not even a free marketer.

Bannon is fundamentally against privacy and property rights.

Let's start with privacy. The man's main business interest since leaving Sachs has been Cambridge Analytica, a subsidiary of uber-DoD contractor and M-I Complex propagandist SCL Group. Cambridge Analytica, according to their CEO, has "somewhere close to four to five thousand data points on every individual... So we model the personality of every adult across the United States, some 230 million people. (http://news.sky.com/story/behind-the-scenes-at-donald-trumps-uk-digital-war-room-10626155/)". Have you ever heard Bannon say anything bad about the NSA? If so, please find me a link, because I've been desperately trying to prove myself wrong about this.

Anti-globalists' first crusade is always immigration. Bannon is their hero on this issue. Anti-immigration policies are fundamentally Marxist. Yes, I can throw out the old "USSR had closed borders" chestnut, but why not just go back to Marx himself?



http://reason.org/news/show/immigration-policy-open-borders

Anti-immigration policies are a direct violation of your property rights. If I TRULY own my property, I should be able to invite my Iranian citizen friend to fly from Tehran and hang out at my house any time I want. If his country prohibits that, then they suck and are anti-liberty. If MY country prohibits that, then it's the American government that controls and owns my property, not me. Similarly, if I own a business, I should be able to hire ANYBODY I WANT WHENEVER I WANT FOR ANY POSITION I WANT AND ANY PAY I WANT, INCLUDING AN UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT. I think this is worth shouting.

Never try to imply anti-immigration rhetoric is pro-liberty. Fess up to what you really are.

I don't need to watch some political speech by Bannon. There are hours upon hours of his radio shows out there. He's stated his views clearly. And certain issues he hasn't commented on are conspicuous in their absence.

I agree with you. But only after we dismantle the welfare/warfare state and defeat the globalists. Right now the globalists are trying to import (America hating) immigrants for two purposes:

1. Create a climate of fear so that Americans give up their natural rights and liberties. This will force Americans to become PC (death to 1st Amendment), accept the survallience state and undeclared war of aggression.
2. Dilute the voting power of Americans to impose European-style big government and elitism. Bascially using democracy as a weapon.

Once we defeat the globalists, I will agree with the first half of your statement.

[PierzStyx]

"I am a Leninist" -Steve Bannon.

All I need to know. Every national socialist loves to use buzzwords to play the minds of the ignorant and naive.

[undergroundrr]

I agree with you. But only after we dismantle the welfare/warfare state and defeat the globalists. Right now the globalists are trying to import (America hating) immigrants for two purposes:

1. Create a climate of fear so that Americans give up their natural rights and liberties. This will force Americans to become PC (death to 1st Amendment), accept the survallience state and undeclared war of aggression.
2. Dilute the voting power of Americans to impose European-style big government and elitism. Bascially using democracy as a weapon.

Once we defeat the globalists, I will agree with the first half of your statement.

Thanks for these thoughtful observations.

I don't buy the "they're importing more Democrat voters" argument. The fact is, there's virtually no difference in the liberty result of a Democrat or Republican administration. Sorry, but I'm not of the "conservatives > progressives" argument because in the end it's always some variant of Bush vs. Obama. Especially this election cycle when we got male warmonger big-gov authoritarian vs. female warmonger big-gov authoritarian.

There will be no progress on welfare until it becomes acceptable in the Overton Window. It's been unaddressed by this administration. An argument against immigration in the meantime equates to "More Welfare For Whites Please." Can you consider that More Welfare for Whites would actually be a worse result than if short, brown people came and stole "our" welfare?

[Gumba of Liberty]

No, the shareholders are the member banks. It's in the charter. Try reading it.

In 1913, Wall Street Banks were partnerships with full liability. You can easily find out which banking families were partners at each Wall Street firm even without a full audit of the Fed. Once you complete the audit, arrest all the bankers involved.


Yes, the Fed has detailed records on every penny the "Banking Families" have and exactly what has been purchased with it. :rolleyes:

Please PM me your dealer's contact info.

Once you have a list of banking partners (from the Fed Audit 1913-Present), take all bankers to trial and hold them fully liable for fraud and treason. Confiscate all assets and legalize competing curriences. If you don't think it's possible for the Feds to investigate and confiscate the wealth of the (ruling) banking families then the only option left is Revolution.



Aaaahahahaha. Donald "Debt is Great, the US Should Borrow More While Rates Are Low" Trump is going to pay off the National Debt?

Steve "Throw a Trillion Against the Wall and See What Sticks" Bannon is going to pay off the National Debt?

This is a delusion, pure and simple.

You asked me how you could pay for infrastructure without the taxpayers paying for it. My answer was to confiscate the money from Wall Street and pay down the debt. I never said Trump would do that. It's much more likely he defaults after the infrastructure projects. Then the bond-holders are stuck holding the bag. Either way the (full) debt will never be paid.



No. Sorry.

That's not an argument.

[Gumba of Liberty]

"I am a Leninist" -Steve Bannon.

All I need to know. Every national socialist loves to use buzzwords to play the minds of the ignorant and naive.

If you opened your mind and watched the video you might surprise yourself.

Now, not to defend this statement without it's context but just a few questions:
1. Does this mean, for sure, that Bannon is a communist?
2. Could Bannon be inferring that like Lenin, he wants to destroy an old and corrupt imperial system?
3. Could Bannon be inferring that like Lenin, he is a man living in uncertain times ready to shape a new world moving forward?
4. Could Bannon be inferring that he is a revolutionary?

Lenin was a butcher, not doubt. He is about the last man I would admire ideologically, but I can separate the accomplishes of a man (beating the odds) from his ideology. With that said, I get this was a deal breaker for you.

[TheCount]

In 1913, Wall Street Banks were partnerships with full liability. You can easily find out which banking families were partners at each Wall Street firm even without a full audit of the Fed. Once you complete the audit, arrest all the bankers involved.

The shares are non-voting and cannot be sold. They are held by the member banks.

All of the bankers who were partners in 1913 are dead. Are you planning to arrest them? Will you put their corpses on trial?

This is pure, 3-hour-Youtube-video levels of fantasy. If this actually happened as you envision it, and it certainly never will, all of the bankers would walk away from the ruins of the banks flush with wealth while the American people directly suffered the consequences in more ways than one.



Confiscate all assets

What assets? You would have just rendered literally every single one of them worthless. I suppose you could make a few dollars selling the paper and fabric to a recycler, and then you'd have what... buildings and office equipment?


If you don't think it's possible for the Feds to investigate and confiscate the wealth of the (ruling) banking families then the only option left is Revolution.Oh, it's certainly possible for the Government to decide that they will strip the wealth of a entire family for the alleged crimes of an ancestor. If the alt-right is planning on returning the country to the middle ages, that particular 'judicial' tactic could certainly be one of the first relics they could dredge up from that era. Of course, there's the minor issue of it being illegal and unconstitutional, but clearly those are only minor speedbumps in the way of progress.



You asked me how you could pay for infrastructure without the taxpayers paying for it. My answer was to confiscate the money from Wall Street and pay down the debt.

You straight up are just not getting it. Let me explain it again in a slightly different way:

If you go to Chase Bank and take all of the money in their vaults, whose money have you taken?



Then the bond-holders are stuck holding the bag. Either way the (full) debt will never be paid.

And who are the bond-holders?

What group of people is the absolute most likely type to invest in American bonds and also to hold the vast majority of their investments in them?

Protip: It's not "banking families"

[CPUd]

And who are the bond-holders?

What group of people is the absolute most likely type to invest in American bonds and also to hold the vast majority of their investments in them?

Protip: It's not "banking families"

Use to be foreign countries like China, but they have been dumping them since last year.

[PierzStyx]

If you opened your mind and watched the video you might surprise yourself.

Now, not to defend this statement without it's context but just a few questions:
1. Does this mean, for sure, that Bannon is a communist?
2. Could Bannon be inferring that like Lenin, he wants to destroy an old and corrupt imperial system?
3. Could Bannon be inferring that like Lenin, he is a man living in uncertain times ready to shape a new world moving forward?
4. Could Bannon be inferring that he is a revolutionary?

Lenin was a butcher, not doubt. He is about the last man I would admire ideologically, but I can separate the accomplishes of a man (beating the odds) from his ideology. With that said, I get this was a deal breaker for you.

If Bannon was calling himself a revolutionary for liberty why would he not compare himself to Thomas Paine, Samuel Adams, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, or any other of the American Revolutionaries?

The question is, why Lenin?

The answer? because Bannon isn't interested in liberty. He is interested in violently replacing what exists now with what he thinks it should be and purging anyone who disagrees.. There is nothing good in this. It should terrify anyone paying attention to the man. Nationalism is in every sense as bad as globalism, worse if you consider it is easier to control smaller populations.

[Gumba of Liberty]

Thanks for these thoughtful observations.

I don't buy the "they're importing more Democrat voters" argument. The fact is, there's virtually no difference in the liberty result of a Democrat or Republican administration. Sorry, but I'm not of the "conservatives > progressives" argument because in the end it's always some variant of Bush vs. Obama. Especially this election cycle when we got male warmonger big-gov authoritarian vs. female warmonger big-gov authoritarian.

I didn't say Democrats. They are importing people who do not understand the principles of freedom & liberty. If immigrants were educated in natural rights (and we actually enforced them in this country) I would have no problem.


There will be no progress on welfare until it becomes acceptable in the Overton Window. It's been unaddressed by this administration. An argument against immigration in the meantime equates to "More Welfare For Whites Please." Can you consider that More Welfare for Whites would actually be a worse result than if short, brown people came and stole "our" welfare?

If considered it and I completely disagree.

[undergroundrr]

If considered it and I completely disagree.

It's official. I've still never encountered an anti-immigrationist who would conclusively refute the following: More Welfare For Whites is the end goal of reducing immigration.

This puts us back to square one, with the warfare state and the welfare state hand in hand impoverishing the masses and Making America Mediocre Again. Everything Ron Paul fought against.

[Gumba of Liberty]

For the record, this has nothing to do with Bannon. But, I'll bite. Game on.


The shares are non-voting and cannot be sold. They are held by the member banks.

All of the bankers who were partners in 1913 are dead. Are you planning to arrest them? Will you put their corpses on trial?

This is pure, 3-hour-Youtube-video levels of fantasy. If this actually happened as you envision it, and it certainly never will, all of the bankers would walk away from the ruins of the banks flush with wealth while the American people directly suffered the consequences in more ways than one.

The Wall Street Bankers, who wrote the (unconstitutional) Federal Reserve Act, put into motion a criminal conspriacy that still exists today. If prosecuted properly, bankers going back to 1910 (Jekyll Island) could be charged with fraud, criminal conspiracy, and treason. All of them. Lucky for us, the bankers knew that they were perpetuating a criminal conspiracy and, to capitalize, they placed their heirs in positions of power througout Wall Street and the MSM (propaganda wing of WS). Since the bankers who started this conspiracy are dead (thanks for the heads up:rolleyes:), all heirs would be investigated and any heirs currently participating in this fraud would face jury trials. The living bankers would be sued for damages to life, liberty, and property, plus interest. The suites, if argued correctly, would individually bankrupt the bankers (not the banks).

Note: This would only ever be possible if Congress and the President were able to end Judicial Supremacy by declaring Judicial Review dead and returning the court to it's minor role of settling disputes. Juries would have to be elevated to their historical role and the judges on this case would have to be Patriots. This most likely will never happen but it is possible and it would be the best case senario. If we ever defeat the globalist without confiscating their (trillions in) wealth. They will consume other nations and do to us what they did to the Germans.


What assets? You would have just rendered literally every single one of them worthless. I suppose you could make a few dollars selling the paper and fabric to a recycler, and then you'd have what... buildings and office equipment?

Not the banks assets. The bankers assets.


Oh, it's certainly possible for the Government to decide that they will strip the wealth of a entire family for the alleged crimes of an ancestor. If the alt-right is planning on returning the country to the middle ages, that particular 'judicial' tactic could certainly be one of the first relics they could dredge up from that era. Of course, there's the minor issue of it being illegal and unconstitutional, but clearly those are only minor speedbumps in the way of progress.

It's illegal to create a racket that siphons the wealth from American citizens and places it in the hands of criminals. If we had an honest justice system (where you could argue to 12 free men that these bankers have violate the Constitution and done so in concert), these men would already be behind bars.

P.S. What an Alt-Right? All of mine are Natural.



You straight up are just not getting it. Let me explain it again in a slightly different way:

If you go to Chase Bank and take all of the money in their vaults, whose money have you taken?

Technically, when you deposit money in a checking account it belongs to the bank. The depositor is an insecure lender. Regardless, I'm not trying to confiscate deposits.


And who are the bond-holders?

What group of people is the absolute most likely type to invest in American bonds and also to hold the vast majority of their investments in them?

Protip: It's not "banking families"

Stupid ones?

[Gumba of Liberty]

If Bannon was calling himself a revolutionary for liberty why would he not compare himself to Thomas Paine, Samuel Adams, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, or any other of the American Revolutionaries?

The question is, why Lenin?

The answer? because Bannon isn't interested in liberty. He is interested in violently replacing what exists now with what he thinks it should be and purging anyone who disagrees.. There is nothing good in this. It should terrify anyone paying attention to the man. Nationalism is in every sense as bad as globalism, worse if you consider it is easier to control smaller populations.

It strikes me as odd as well. Do you have the quote in context? I would love to read the interview or speech where this came from.

[Gumba of Liberty]

It's official. I've still never encountered an anti-immigrationist who would conclusively refute the following: More Welfare For Whites is the end goal of reducing immigration.

This puts us back to square one, with the warfare state and the welfare state hand in hand impoverishing the masses and Making America Mediocre Again. Everything Ron Paul fought against.

Why would I want to put more "whites" (I'm a proud Italian who doesn't mix race with color) on welfare? Why would anyone? If we could get two bills passed Congress I would say open the flood gates.

1. No welfare for any immgrants ever. If you come to this country and you can't make it, go home. No exceptions.
2. Ellis Island (Style) Immigration Act: Build processing centers on the borders of the Union and allow immgrants to get checked for disease and violent criminal history. In addition, have them pass a test on the Constitution & Natural Rights before they can gain entry.

Please explain where you disagree.

[Son_of_Liberty90]

How much more "unified" do you think we need to be? Considering where we are now, as opposed to 1789?

I would argue we are on the brink of a new civil war. As you can see with leftists/SJWS/marxists rallying to the call of violence to shut down speech they don't agree with. They refuse to welcome argument or debate, it's PUNCH if they disagree with you. In the near future they would probably shoot you if they disagree with your politics.

[Zippyjuan]

It strikes me as odd as well. Do you have the quote in context? I would love to read the interview or speech where this came from.

You might find this article interesting. http://www.businessinsider.com/book-steve-bannon-is-obsessed-with-the-fourth-turning-2017-2

A little long to post it all but I will start it out for you:


President Trump's adviser, Steve Bannon, is on the cover of this week's Time magazine, and in the piece it is revealed that Bannon deeply believes in a theory about America's future laid out in a book called "The Fourth Turning: What Cycles of History Tell Us About America's Next Rendezvous with Destiny."

This fact should concern every American.

In the book, authors William Strauss and Neil Howe theorize that the history of a people moves in 80-to-100 year cycles called "saecula." The idea goes back to the ancient Greeks, who believed that at a given saeculum's end, there would come "ekpyrosis," a cataclysmic event that destroys the old order and brings in a new one in a trial of fire.

This era of change is known as the Fourth Turning, and Bannon, like Strauss and Howe, believes we are in the midst of one right now.

According to the book, the last two Fourth Turnings that America experienced were the Civil War and the Reconstruction, and then the Great Depression and World War II. Before that, it was the Revolutionary War.

All these were marked by periods of dread and decay in which the American people were forced to unite to rebuild a new future, but only after a massive conflict in which many lives were lost. It all starts with a catalyst event, then there's a period of regeneracy, after that there is a defining climax in which a war for the old order is fought, and then finally there is a resolution in which a new world order is stabilized.

This is where Bannon's obsession with this book should cause concern. He believes that, for the new world order to rise, there must be a massive reckoning. That we will soon reach our climax conflict. In the White House, he has shown that he is willing to advise Trump to enact policies that will disrupt our current order to bring about what he perceives as a necessary new one. He encourages breaking down political and economic alliances and turning away from traditional American principles to cause chaos.

In that way, Bannon seems to be trying to bring about the Fourth Turning.

The book in Bannon
Bannon has never been secretive about his desire to use Trump to bring about his vision of America. He told Vanity Fair last summer that Trump was a "blunt instrument for us ... I don’t know whether he really gets it or not."

Perhaps not, but putting a Fourth Turning lens on Trump's policies certainly give them a great deal of context. Bannon believes that the catalyst for the Fourth Turning has already happened: the financial crisis.

So now we are in the regeneracy. Howe and Strauss describe this period as one of isolationism, one of infrastructure building and of strong, centralized government power, and a reimagination of the economy.

Of course it's important not to lose sight of the end here. Bannon believes in authoritarian politics as preparation for a massive conflict between East and West, whether East means the Middle East or China.

[Gumba of Liberty]

You might find this article interesting. http://www.businessinsider.com/book-steve-bannon-is-obsessed-with-the-fourth-turning-2017-2

A little long to post it all but I will start it out for you:

I'll read it and get back to you but the highlights don't surprise me. Bannon speaks at length about the 4th Turning in the OP video and it comes across as much less sinister and conspiratorial than Business Insider makes it sound.

[undergroundrr]

Sounds like somebody got him on the phone drunk:


Then we had a long talk about his approach to politics. He never called himself a “populist” or an “American nationalist,” as so many think of him today. “I’m a Leninist,” Bannon proudly proclaimed.

Shocked, I asked him what he meant.
“Lenin,” he answered, “wanted to destroy the state, and that’s my goal too. I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s establishment.” Bannon was employing Lenin’s strategy for Tea Party populist goals. He included in that group the Republican and Democratic Parties, as well as the traditional conservative press.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/22/steve-bannon-trump-s-top-guy-told-me-he-was-a-leninist.html

[phill4paul]

I would argue we are on the brink of a new civil war. As you can see with leftists/SJWS/marxists rallying to the call of violence to shut down speech they don't agree with. They refuse to welcome argument or debate, it's PUNCH if they disagree with you. In the near future they would probably shoot you if they disagree with your politics.

Dunno. I do know that anyone would do best to not adapt the tactics you cite with me personally.

[Gumba of Liberty]

[Lenin] wanted to destroy the state, and that’s my goal too. I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s establishment.

Bhahaha he sounds like Rockwell.

Idk, how does everyone else feel about this? I'm not trying to give him a pass but I understand the feeling.

P.S. The fact that we have someone so radical in the White House wispering sweet songs of destroying the establishment into Trump's ear makes me grin from ear to ear. :D

[undergroundrr]

Why would I want to put more "whites" (I'm a proud Italian who doesn't mix race with color) on welfare? Why would anyone? If we could get two bills passed Congress I would say open the flood gates.

1. No welfare for any immgrants ever. If you come to this country and you can't make it, go home. No exceptions.
2. Ellis Island (Style) Immigration Act: Build processing centers on the borders of the Union and allow immgrants to get checked for disease and violent criminal history. In addition, have them pass a test on the Constitution & Natural Rights before they can gain entry.

Please explain where you disagree.

1. No welfare for anybody ever. If you can't make it in this country, rely on your family, church or other charity.
2. Your idea of America agreeing on the contents of an ideological litmus test for entry (and that it would resemble libertarianism) is absurd. Besides, I don't recognize your right to leverage government force keep me from accommodating my Iranian Communist Muslim friend on my property.

Melting pot-ism is the true ideology of the USA. The rule of white Europeans through the 18th & 19th centuries are what got us the Fed, the IRS and eventually the New Deal. Nothing immigrants have done has endangered our way of life in any way that resembles those.

Even the idea that Whites self-identify as libertarian more than hispanics is being seriously called into question -
http://thoughtsonliberty.com/the-surprising-rise-of-the-hispanic-millennial-libertarian
https://www.cato.org/blog/latinos-are-twice-likely-support-libertarian-candidate-0
http://www.newsweek.com/libertarians-are-more-diverse-we-think-470198

You believe America is being destroyed by immigrants. I believe it's being destroyed by policies of wealth redistribution. To say "some of both" is simply to prolong the pain and deprive America of its most energizing and prosperity-enhancing feature - immigrants.

Anyhow, the trump/Bannon immigration message isn't about keeping Mexicans away from American jobs, even if that was a good thing. It's the same neocon Islamofascism fear Kristol, Wolfowitz, Bolton, Cheney et al have been manipulating the sheeple with for decades.

I'd love to hear ANYBODY from the alt-right (even if you don't self-identify as such you're regurgitating their talking points) really get passionate about welfare reform. Ain't happenin. They want more welfare for whites.

[CPUd]

I would argue we are on the brink of a new civil war. As you can see with leftists/SJWS/marxists rallying to the call of violence to shut down speech they don't agree with. They refuse to welcome argument or debate, it's PUNCH if they disagree with you. In the near future they would probably shoot you if they disagree with your politics.

Those are fringe groups and maybe FBI mixing in with the crowds. The rest of them for the most part are into passive resistance and raising money. It is a mistake to lump them all together, once they figure out how to disassociate with the violent ones they'll be worth working with on certain issues.

[Gumba of Liberty]

1. No welfare for anybody ever. If you can't make it in this country, rely on your family, church or other charity.
2. Your idea of America agreeing on the contents of an ideological litmus test for entry (and that it would resemble libertarianism) is absurd. Besides, I don't recognize your right to leverage government force keep me from accommodating my Iranian Communist Muslim friend on my property.

Melting pot-ism is the true ideology of the USA. The rule of white Europeans through the 18th & 19th centuries are what got us the Fed, the IRS and eventually the New Deal. Nothing immigrants have done has endangered our way of life in any way that resembles those.

Even the idea that Whites self-identify as libertarian more than hispanics is being seriously called into question -
http://thoughtsonliberty.com/the-surprising-rise-of-the-hispanic-millennial-libertarian
https://www.cato.org/blog/latinos-are-twice-likely-support-libertarian-candidate-0
http://www.newsweek.com/libertarians-are-more-diverse-we-think-470198

You believe America is being destroyed by immigrants. I believe it's being destroyed by policies of wealth redistribution. To say "some of both" is simply to prolong the pain and deprive America of its most energizing and prosperity-enhancing feature - immigrants.

Anyhow, the trump/Bannon immigration message isn't about keeping Mexicans away from American jobs, even if that was a good thing. It's the same neocon Islamofascism fear Kristol, Wolfowitz, Bolton, Cheney et al have been manipulating the sheeple with for decades.

I'd love to hear ANYBODY from the alt-right (even if you don't self-identify as such you're regurgitating their talking points) really get passionate about welfare reform. Ain't happenin. They want more welfare for whites.

1. I would love it if we could jump straight to no welfare, for anyone. But if ANYTHING were to never happen, THAT will never happen. One step at a time. First cut off welfare for immigrants then the general population. In addition, it's always good to remember what Dr. Paul says, it's better to pull welfare from the rich (The Fed, Corporate Subsidies, Corporate Limited-Liability, etc.) before you pull welfare from poor Americans.
2. I'm not advocating a litmus test other than making sure foreigners understand the basis of our laws and traditions. This is not pie-in-the-sky, this is doable, legal, and would probably (if we had an honest press) be accepted by the majority of Americans, today.

In response to the rest of your post:

I firmly believe you are trying to take a complex situation and oversimplify it, big league (See what I did there?;)). In addition to diluting American votes, normalizing terror attacks and/or threats, and turning Americans to support the police state (blue line crap), corporations (who receive billions in government subsidies, 0% interest rates at the Fed, a custom built tax code designed to shield wealth, etc.) want to bring in immigrants into this country for three reasons:

1. They suppress wages.
2. Illegal immgrants are too afraid to stand up for their Rights.
3. If the immgrants that are brought in are of a different culture, language, religion, and race than the dominate population, mass immigration will create an "us" vs. "them" paradigm. The elites will keep us fighting with each other and they will continue to rob us blind. When the next economic crisis hits, watch how quickly CNN will turn on these immigrants to fuel Civil War.

Please tell me I'm wrong. I don't want to be right.

[Madison320]

You believe America is being destroyed by immigrants. I believe it's being destroyed by policies of wealth redistribution. To say "some of both" is simply to prolong the pain and deprive America of its most energizing and prosperity-enhancing feature - immigrants.



100% agree.

[Madison320]

1. I would love it if we could jump straight to no welfare, for anyone. But if ANYTHING were to never happen, THAT will never happen. One step at a time. First cut off welfare for immigrants then the general population.


I agree. I'd like to see any immigrant who signs a waiver that they will never take welfare be immediately granted citizenship.



I firmly believe you are trying to take a complex situation and oversimplify it, big league (See what I did there?). In addition to diluting American votes, normalizing terror attacks and/or threats, and turning Americans to support the police state (blue line crap), corporations (who receive billions in government subsidies, 0% interest rates at the Fed, a custom built tax code designed to shield wealth, etc.) want to bring in immigrants into this country for three reasons:

1. They suppress wages.
2. Illegal immgrants are too afraid to stand up for their Rights.
3. If the immgrants that are brought in are of a different culture, language, religion, and race than the dominate population, mass immigration will create an "us" vs. "them" paradigm. The elites will keep us fighting with each other and they will continue to rob us blind. When the next economic crisis hits, watch how quickly CNN will turn on these immigrants to fuel Civil War.

Please tell me I'm wrong. I don't want to be right

What's wrong with people willing to work for lower wages? Do you think business owners have unlimited amounts of cash?

[H. E. Panqui]

So I make a rational point and in return the thread receives one (anonymous) star without anyone man enough to refute my arguments with facts. This place is run by children.

:rolleyes:

...nothing but stinking tea-bagger rhetoric...lol!!..sarah stinking palin and michelle stinking bachmann are going to save us?!...:rolleyes:

...dumbo of liberty, it's not so much what your stinking tea-bag republicans say...it's what they don't EVER say...and your blowhard bannon offers not a peep about the fraudulent nature of our HIDEOUS system of monetary issuance, etc...only monetary ignoramuses--and there are LOTS of them!!!--could hold this republicrat a-hole in high regard...word...

[Gumba of Liberty]

You believe America is being destroyed by immigrants. I believe it's being destroyed by policies of wealth redistribution. To say "some of both" is simply to prolong the pain and deprive America of its most energizing and prosperity-enhancing feature - immigrants.

I don't believe America is being destroyed by immigrants; I never said that. America is, indeed, being destroyed by policies of wealth redistribution (from Main Street to Wall Street). What you don't understand is that socially-engineered, mass immigration is one weapon used by the globalists to accelerate redistribution of wealth. Once the Elite has completely robbed the American People, the only people on Earth who have the resources to fight back, they can usher in their world government. If you think I'm making this up, look whats going on in Germany. That is the future and it's not pretty.

On another note, earlier in the thread the point was made that Karl Marx wanted to restrict immigration. My only question is, what about Switzerland? Are the Swiss out and out Marxists for enacting high-barriers to entry? In the real world, the Swiss are doing something right and, per usual, the rest of Europe is blowing it big time.

I would love it if the CIA hadn't overthrown over 50 States since 1945. I would love it if the Bush & Obama Administration's hadn't plunged us into Near East Wars that have caused so much American animosity and hatred (blowback). The problem is that both of those are realities and the globalists will not quit. I'll defer to Dr. Paul on this:


Question: When you ran for president in 1988, you said, “As in our country’s first 150 years, there shouldn’t be any immigration policy at all. We should welcome everyone who wants to come here and work.” You’ve changed your view.
(Dr. Paul) Answer: And during that campaign I got into trouble with Libertarians because I said there may well be a time when immigration is like an invasion and we have to treat it differently. My approach to immigration is somewhat different than the others. Mine is you deal with it economically We’re in worse shape now because we subsidize immigration. We give food stamps, Social Security, free medical care, free education and amnesty. So you subsidize it, and you have a mess. Conditions have changed. And I think this means that we should look at immigration differently. It’s an economic issue more than anything. If our economy was in good health, I don’t think there’d be an immigration problem. We’d be looking for workers and we would be very generous.

I believe that time is now.

[Gumba of Liberty]

I agree. I'd like to see any immigrant who signs a waiver that they will never take welfare be immediately granted citizenship.




What's wrong with people willing to work for lower wages? Do you think business owners have unlimited amounts of cash?

Only the ones with access to the Fed Piggy Bank. Multi-National Corporations receive subsidies, 0% interest rates from the Fed, limited-liability, etc. In addition, they have their own lawyers write the tax and regulatory codes. This means that corporations have a much easier time staying in business than the average small business. In the process small business are artificially bankrupted and individuals, who in a free-market would have their own business and hire their own workers, now must become employees subject to the whims of a dwindling group of Corporate CEOs (this causes the myth that free-markets naturally create monopolies). These CEOs then replace workers, many of whom would have their own businesses in a free-market, with foreign labor that will not stand up for their Rights nor request increases in pay. In the process, America is hollowed out as the privileged Elite grow richer and the majority of Americans become poorer and poorer each generation.

If you can't see this, you are blind.

[Gumba of Liberty]

By the way if anyone wants a window in Bannon's mind, watch Generation Zero. Bannon wrote and directed the documentary back in 2010. As much as you hate the man, if you go into it with an open mind, you (a true Liberty Movement Patriot) will probably agree with most of what he has to say. Check it out here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3SLtP10NQ8

P.S. It's been 42 hours and we've only had one (positive) quote from the OP.
https://media.makeameme.org/created/AM-I-WRONG.jpg

[undergroundrr]

On another note, earlier in the thread the point was made that Karl Marx wanted to restrict immigration. My only question is, what about Switzerland? Are the Swiss out and out Marxists for enacting high-barriers to entry? In the real world, the Swiss are doing something right and, per usual, the rest of Europe is blowing it big time.

The Swiss have maintained economic prosperity by wisely staying independent from the EU and keeping free trade as open as possible (not the trump/Bannon plan) with every other country on Earth that would allow it. Yes, in 2014, they barely (50.3%) put some rule-of-thumb immigration guidelines in place. But freedom of movement has always been an abiding principle there. Like the US, they are an immigrant nation and have recognized the benefits of influx. They've had sustained periods of free immigration (late 40s to early 60s) but for the most part have been like the US, semi-restrictive with a divide in the populace between "liberals" and "conservatives" on the issue. The recent "crackdown" on immigration (such that it is) there is politically driven by escalating unemployment, it's fairly tepid, and nobody knows what what effect it will have in the long term if any.

But as for Marxism, Switzerland isn't exactly Rothbard's dream.


For example, an Italian who arrives in Switzerland with an open-ended employment contract has the right to a five-year, renewable residence permit. If he loses his job, he can get unemployment insurance – as long as he can show he has worked at least 12 months in the past two years – and in case of need he can get social welfare.
For Parmelin, those who are no longer contributing should have to go back to their own countries soon instead of “burdening the social welfare system”.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/free-movement-of-workers_eu-migrants-seen-as-social-system-freeloaders/37835956

There's also a tangled mess between state-level and federal-level welfare. Same as here.

In the anti-Marxist column, they're famous for staying out of the kind of trade wars trump/Bannon advocates. Most agricultural is subsidized and protected by tariffs (and subject to stringent environmentalist regulations), but other than that as far as I can tell barriers to international trade are minimal.


I would love it if the CIA hadn't overthrown over 50 States since 1945. I would love it if the Bush & Obama Administration's hadn't plunged us into Near East Wars that have caused so much American animosity and hatred (blowback). The problem is that both of those are realities and the globalists will not quit. I'll defer to Dr. Paul on this:

I believe that time is now.

Dr. Paul absolutely addressed immigration both of his presidential campaigns and before. How he expressed it is very different from the "they're stealing our welfare" tack that the alt-right robotically spews. He spoke of bringing our troops home so there could be more trained security to patrol the borders. He also reiterated countless times that any wall or fence would be used to keep us in as much as to keep the infidels out. In your excerpt, he follows the highlighted "treat it differently" with the un-highlighted "Mine is you deal with it economically."

In 2A rights we say that the criminals will still find a way to get guns if law-abiding Americans are restricted from owning them. By the same token with immigration, the bad guys will find a way to get in, but Americans' freedom of movement will be compromised by the kind of border wall trump/Bannon is discussing. Advocating biometric monitoring of Americans and restricting their freedom of ingress and egress does not deserve to be called American Patriotism. Neither does taking a lot of your money to build an ineffectual and expensive wall.

[undergroundrr]

I firmly believe you are trying to take a complex situation and oversimplify it, big league (See what I did there?;)). In addition to diluting American votes, normalizing terror attacks and/or threats, and turning Americans to support the police state (blue line crap), corporations (who receive billions in government subsidies, 0% interest rates at the Fed, a custom built tax code designed to shield wealth, etc.) want to bring in immigrants into this country for three reasons:

1. They suppress wages.
2. Illegal immgrants are too afraid to stand up for their Rights.
3. If the immgrants that are brought in are of a different culture, language, religion, and race than the dominate population, mass immigration will create an "us" vs. "them" paradigm. The elites will keep us fighting with each other and they will continue to rob us blind. When the next economic crisis hits, watch how quickly CNN will turn on these immigrants to fuel Civil War.

Please tell me I'm wrong. I don't want to be right.

I'm not convinced it's as simple as "the elites are using them to destroy us."

Your point 1 is indistinguishable from lobbying for a higher minimum wage. It's just eliminating price competition in the labor market while stomping on people's property rights. Restricting access to foreign workers is a business regulation (aka property rights infringement), just like Dodd-Frank, Windfall Profits Tax, EEOC, etc.

Now, all this is complicated by the fact that corporations as we know them are an evil spawn of the government and are alien to a free economy. But that's for another thread. Pragmatically, corporations produce prosperity and governments destroy it, so we warily fight on the side of the corporations.

I don't really see how your point 2 is a concern. Navigating US civic structure will take years and maybe a generation or two. I'm still bad at it and I'm as multi-generational WASP American as they come.

Point 3 is certainly significant. My knee-jerk is to tell people to grow up. Or better yet to take on the openness of a child. I just can't relate to the xenophobia thing. Somehow I escaped having that gene. I use my discussions here to try to understand this dynamic better.

[Madison320]

Only the ones with access to the Fed Piggy Bank. Multi-National Corporations receive subsidies, 0% interest rates from the Fed, limited-liability, etc. In addition, they have their own lawyers write the tax and regulatory codes. This means that corporations have a much easier time staying in business than the average small business. In the process small business are artificially bankrupted and individuals, who in a free-market would have their own business and hire their own workers, now must become employees subject to the whims of a dwindling group of Corporate CEOs (this causes the myth that free-markets naturally create monopolies). These CEOs then replace workers, many of whom would have their own businesses in a free-market, with foreign labor that will not stand up for their Rights nor request increases in pay. In the process, America is hollowed out as the privileged Elite grow richer and the majority of Americans become poorer and poorer each generation.

If you can't see this, you are blind.

I agree that some corporations are getting artificially cheap loans due to the Fed. So instead of fixing the root cause (the free money) you want to make labor more expensive for corporations? I don't get it. The problem is with government not corporations. Corporations are only responding to their conditions. If your competitor is getting free money, then you need to take advantage of the free money or go out of business. It's 100% fault of the govt.

[Gumba of Liberty]

The Swiss have maintained economic prosperity by wisely staying independent from the EU and keeping free trade as open as possible (not the trump/Bannon plan) with every other country on Earth that would allow it. Yes, in 2014, they barely (50.3%) put some rule-of-thumb immigration guidelines in place. But freedom of movement has always been an abiding principle there. Like the US, they are an immigrant nation and have recognized the benefits of influx. They've had sustained periods of free immigration (late 40s to early 60s) but for the most part have been like the US, semi-restrictive with a divide in the populace between "liberals" and "conservatives" on the issue. The recent "crackdown" on immigration (such that it is) there is politically driven by escalating unemployment, it's fairly tepid, and nobody knows what what effect it will have in the long term if any.

But as for Marxism, Switzerland isn't exactly Rothbard's dream.



http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/free-movement-of-workers_eu-migrants-seen-as-social-system-freeloaders/37835956

There's also a tangled mess between state-level and federal-level welfare. Same as here.

In the anti-Marxist column, they're famous for staying out of the kind of trade wars trump/Bannon advocates. Most agricultural is subsidized and protected by tariffs (and subject to stringent environmentalist regulations), but other than that as far as I can tell barriers to international trade are minimal.



Dr. Paul absolutely addressed immigration both of his presidential campaigns and before. How he expressed it is very different from the "they're stealing our welfare" tack that the alt-right robotically spews. He spoke of bringing our troops home so there could be more trained security to patrol the borders. He also reiterated countless times that any wall or fence would be used to keep us in as much as to keep the infidels out. In your excerpt, he follows the highlighted "treat it differently" with the un-highlighted "Mine is you deal with it economically."

In 2A rights we say that the criminals will still find a way to get guns if law-abiding Americans are restricted from owning them. By the same token with immigration, the bad guys will find a way to get in, but Americans' freedom of movement will be compromised by the kind of border wall trump/Bannon is discussing. Advocating biometric monitoring of Americans and restricting their freedom of ingress and egress does not deserve to be called American Patriotism. Neither does taking a lot of your money to build an ineffectual and expensive wall.

+1 I completely agree with the bolded section

[Gumba of Liberty]

I'm not convinced it's as simple as "the elites are using them to destroy us."

Your point 1 is indistinguishable from lobbying for a higher minimum wage. It's just eliminating price competition in the labor market while stomping on people's property rights. Restricting access to foreign workers is a business regulation (aka property rights infringement), just like Dodd-Frank, Windfall Profits Tax, EEOC, etc.

Now, all this is complicated by the fact that corporations as we know them are an evil spawn of the government and are alien to a free economy. But that's for another thread. Pragmatically, corporations produce prosperity and governments destroy it, so we warily fight on the side of the corporations.

Restricting immigration is a regulation, I completely agree. I just disagree with in which order we should remove the regulations. I would rather remove all corporate privilege and welfare first rather than watch the crumbling of "Main Street USA" accelerate. In the same way Dr. Paul advocates removing corporate welfare before actual welfare.


I don't really see how your point 2 is a concern. Navigating US civic structure will take years and maybe a generation or two. I'm still bad at it and I'm as multi-generational WASP American as they come.

In our current system, if you come to the US without permission you are here illegally. This enables businesses to threaten their employees with deportation if they do not submit to Rights violations. Employers use this as leverage. It happens.


Point 3 is certainly significant. My knee-jerk is to tell people to grow up. Or better yet to take on the openness of a child. I just can't relate to the xenophobia thing. Somehow I escaped having that gene. I use my discussions here to try to understand this dynamic better.

I'm not saying that I will blame the immigrants but many will. It's unfortunate.

[Gumba of Liberty]

I agree that some corporations are getting artificially cheap loans due to the Fed. So instead of fixing the root cause (the free money) you want to make labor more expensive for corporations? I don't get it. The problem is with government not corporations. Corporations are only responding to their conditions. If your competitor is getting free money, then you need to take advantage of the free money or go out of business. It's 100% fault of the govt.

I'd rather remove corporate welfare before I remove regulations (and welfare) that benefit the common man. Once you remove the corporate privileges then you remove privileges for the poor. This is the strategy Dr. Paul supports as well.

[presence]

In our current system, if you come to the US without permission you are here illegally. This enables businesses to threaten their employees with deportation if they do not submit to Rights violations. Employers use this as leverage. It happens.


It would seem then that the "current system" of illegalizing and dehumanizing people, through various caste system vetting processes of state, is the problem and we should seek to alleviate the problem by rescinding the very notion of "illegal people"; "unpermitted people"; "unlicensed people" etc. rather than entrench it with new state powers to enforce these illegalism, by simply allowing private actors with local knowledge to determine if non citizen individuals, or unlicensed/unpermitted people have value to society, through free market economic activity.

[undergroundrr]

It would seem then that the "current system" of illegalizing and dehumanizing people, through various caste system vetting processes of state, is the problem and we should seek to alleviate the problem by rescinding the very notion of "illegal people"; "unpermitted people"; "unlicensed people" etc. rather than entrench it with new state powers to enforce these illegalism, by simply allowing private actors with local knowledge to determine if non citizen individuals, or unlicensed/unpermitted people have value to society, through free market economic activity.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to presence again.

[Gumba of Liberty]

It would seem then that the "current system" of illegalizing and dehumanizing people, through various caste system vetting processes of state, is the problem and we should seek to alleviate the problem by rescinding the very notion of "illegal people"; "unpermitted people"; "unlicensed people" etc. rather than entrench it with new state powers to enforce these illegalism, by simply allowing private actors with local knowledge to determine if non citizen individuals, or unlicensed/unpermitted people have value to society, through free market economic activity.

I agree with this statement. The question is how do you get from Point A to Point B with the least negative side effects possible. Illegal immigrants are not the only members of society denied their Natural Rights and granted government privileges (welfare). I look at society like this:

The Elite (Upper Caste): Receive a myriad of government privileges including limited-liability, subsidies, artificial interest rates, fractional banking, etc. 90% of all welfare goes to this class. This class uses it's (artificial) power to violate the Rights of other castes with government support.

The American People (Lower Caste): Receive government privileges (welfare, unemployment, workers "rights", entitlements, etc.) in exchange for gross violations of basic Natural Rights (Rights to self-defense, Right to a jury trial, Right to contract, Right to homestead, etc.)


Illegal Immigrants (Lowest Caste): Receive government privileges (welfare, low-income housing, k12 education, etc.) in exchange for poverty-level wages.

If I had a magic wand, I would remove all artificial privileges (from all castes) and restore Natural Rights to all groups. Problem is I don't have a magic wand. I'm not going to remove the privileges of the American People (99%) when the privileges of the Elite will stay intact. Considering the Elite will not give up their privileges without a revolution, we can either restrict immigration (to protect the American People) or we open the flood gates allowing millions more unskilled foreigners and citizens alike to join the welfare rolls. This will put more strain on the backs of the taxpayers and speed up the inevitable bankruptcy of the United States Government while the "Elite" send their corporate profits to offshore accounts outside the control of the US Government. My priority, right now, is reforming or overthrowing the Upper Caste who want to destroy our country. Agree to disagree.

[H. E. Panqui]

It would seem then that the "current system" of illegalizing and dehumanizing people, through various caste system vetting processes of state, is the problem and we should seek to alleviate the problem by rescinding the very notion of "illegal people"; "unpermitted people"; "unlicensed people" etc. rather than entrench it with new state powers to enforce these illegalism, by simply allowing private actors with local knowledge to determine if non citizen individuals, or unlicensed/unpermitted people have value to society, through free market economic activity.

...how about we start with the fraudulent monetary order?...for once in our lives...(start with money issuance/deposit creation...never in my life have i heard anyone with a big 'microphone' honestly '$pill the bean$'...

...if we are going to yap about 'corporations' ('artificial' persons....they are phonies...'with neither souls to be damned or bodies to be kicked') LET'S NOT FORGET THAT OWNER$ OF BANK CORPORATION$ ARE AT THE APEX OF 'THE PYRAMID'....and the owner$ will take a steve bannon republicreepy poodle as quick as they'll take a hillary/obomba democreepy poodle....none of the republicrat creeps 'they' feed us are any threat to this mi$erable order....

..furthermore, many politicians, high official$, etc., appear as poisonous goddamned fools who drive decent people away from 'public :rolleyes: office'!!...ugh!...what a cesspool..:mad:

...also, elementally, there is no important difference between 'corporation' and 'government'....they both consist of real living people who are 'more privileged' by law than others...(decent people seek an 'egalitarian' society where no one is privileged or disadvantaged by law..hint for republicrats: thanks to you dummies we have a loooooooong way to go to get to 'the egalitarian society'..)

...as one wag put it, "Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the Earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of a pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the fortunes like mine will disappear, and they ought to disappear, for this world would be a happier and better world to live in. But if you wish to remain slaves of the Bankers and pay for the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits."

[unknown]

Did he recommend that people check their closets nightly for Moslem boogeymen?

[nikcers]

Free lunch? So, if Bannon convinced Trump to 1. Sign Audit the Fed (Great) 2. Order the Justice Department to arrest and hang the bankers (Great) 3. confiscate their assets (Fantastic!) and 4. Return them to the taxpayers (The dream). You're mad that Bannon might use (a percentage of) the money for infrastructure projects? Picky much? The Fed has been stealing from Americans for over 100 years, these banking families have more wealth than the rest of the world. The US is either going to declare war on the bankers and reclaim the republic (American Revolution/Andrew Jackson style) or it will default on the debt, eventually. Either way, bankers or bond-holders will pay for the infrastructure. As a former banker, Bannon gets this (See Generation Zero for more).

As Ron Paul would say monetary policy is directly relative to foreign policy. I don't care how good you think Bannon is on the fed, he can't finance his wars without it.

[Gumba of Liberty]

As Ron Paul would say monetary policy is directly relative to foreign policy. I don't care how good you think Bannon is on the fed, he can't finance his wars without it.

Which wars? Do you have evidence Bannon supports aggressive war and nation-building sans ISIS (CIA)? I would love to see a quote.

[nikcers]

Which wars? Do you have evidence Bannon supports aggressive war and nation-building sans ISIS (CIA)? I would love to see a quote. I don't have evidence that he is breathing oxygen that doesn't mean he is a lizard person. Bannon literally is an Israel firster, who supports all of our middle east intervention. He is not Ron Paul, he is Ron Paul on steroids.

[Gumba of Liberty]

I don't have evidence that he is breathing oxygen that doesn't mean he is a lizard person. Bannon literally is an Israel firster, who supports all of our middle east intervention. He is not Ron Paul, he is Ron Paul on steroids.

Bannon could totally be a covert reptilian. Until we have evidence to prove he's not, I'll reserve my judgement. If you could provided (any) evidence one way or another I'll be happy to look into it (scientific method in the house).

Btw Reptilian=Warmonger

[H. E. Panqui]

Bannon could totally be a covert reptilian. Until we have evidence to prove he's not, I'll reserve my judgement. If you could provided (any) evidence one way or another I'll be happy to look into it (scientific method in the house).

Btw Reptilian=Warmonger

...ummm..bannon is a stinking republican not named 'ron paul'...pretty sure bet he's a goddamned reptilian warmonger...

...hint for gumby of 'liberty': your stinking republicans suck as bad or worse than the stinking democrats at whom you channel your republican-radio hate... ;)

[Gumba of Liberty]

...ummm..bannon is a stinking republican not named 'ron paul'...pretty sure bet he's a goddamned reptilian warmonger...

...hint for gumby of 'liberty': your stinking republicans suck as bad or worse than the stinking democrats at whom you channel your republican-radio hate... ;)

Nice try, I'm neither a Republican nor Democrat (sorry to destroy your right-left worldview). In every election I vote for the candidate that will move us closest to a libertarian world. Your problem is you don't understand the concept of decentralization. Before a libertarian world is possible we must take back our country from globalist parasites. Steve Bannon is an asset to that cause. Instead of name calling how about you tell me where I'm wrong. Tick, tick, tick...

[H. E. Panqui]

Nice try, I'm neither a Republican nor Democrat (sorry to destroy your right-left worldview). In every election I vote for the candidate that will move us closest to a libertarian world. Your problem is you don't understand the concept of decentralization. Before a libertarian world is possible we must take back our country from globalist parasites. Steve Bannon is an asset to that cause. Instead of name calling how about you tell me where I'm wrong. Tick, tick, tick...

:rolleyes:

...lol!...'MY' left-right worldview' :rolleyes:...and here you are shilling for an obvious republican peckerhead (bannon) with a pathetic, brainwashed 'left-right worldview'!....and 'libertarian,' :rolleyes: my arse!...?your stinking teabag republicans are no closer to honest liberty than nancy pelosi...get a grip...you are shilling for yet another deluded, groomed-poodle, republican monetary ignoramus, warmonger, zionist apologist, federal culture warrior, etc. ad nauseam...get real..

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/15/us/politics/stephen-bannon-breitbart-words.html?_r=0

• Referring to Ann Coulter, Michele Bachmann and Sarah Palin in a 2011 radio interview (https://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/trump-campaign-ceo-once-blasted-bunch-of-dykes-from-the-seve?utm_term=.amx9ZApAXp#.syaYKzNzZN) on Political Vindication Radio, he said: “These women cut to the heart of the progressive narrative. That’s why there are some unintended consequences of the women’s liberation movement. That, in fact, the women that would lead this country would be pro-family, they would have husbands, they would love their children. They wouldn’t be a bunch of dykes that came from the Seven Sisters schools up in New England. That drives the left insane, and that’s why they hate these women.”

[TheCount]

Before a libertarian world is possible we must take back our country from globalist parasites.Becoming less free is not a pathway to becoming more free. If some 'temporary' restrictions on liberty was all that was standing between us and a 'libertarian world,' we would have been free a century ago.

[Gumba of Liberty]

:rolleyes:

...lol!...'MY' left-right worldview' :rolleyes:...and here you are shilling for an obvious republican peckerhead (bannon) with a pathetic, brainwashed 'left-right worldview'!....and 'libertarian,' :rolleyes: my arse!...?your stinking teabag republicans are no closer to honest liberty than nancy pelosi...get a grip...you are shilling for yet another deluded, groomed-poodle, republican monetary ignoramus, warmonger, zionist apologist, federal culture warrior, etc. ad nauseam...get real..

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/15/us/politics/stephen-bannon-breitbart-words.html?_r=0

• Referring to Ann Coulter, Michele Bachmann and Sarah Palin in a 2011 radio interview (https://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/trump-campaign-ceo-once-blasted-bunch-of-dykes-from-the-seve?utm_term=.amx9ZApAXp#.syaYKzNzZN) on Political Vindication Radio, he said: “These women cut to the heart of the progressive narrative. That’s why there are some unintended consequences of the women’s liberation movement. That, in fact, the women that would lead this country would be pro-family, they would have husbands, they would love their children. They wouldn’t be a bunch of dykes that came from the Seven Sisters schools up in New England. That drives the left insane, and that’s why they hate these women.”


1. The fact that you linked to the (Socialist) Toilet Paper of Record is rich. You truly believe the New York Times would feature an unbiased critique of Steve Bannon? Give me a break, this is actually a badge of honor.
2. I don't even think you read the article because nothing within it proves your point. Actually, it looks like it proves mine. Here is one example:

“What we need to do is bitch-slap the Republican Party.” - Steve Bannon
3. The (Original, Real) Tea Party Started with Ron Paul on Dec. 16th, 2007 with the 234th Anniversary of the BTP (I get that your late to the party).
4. You my friend, are a partisan hack who can't understand that you must make allies with people who do not always agree with you 100% (I learned this from Dr. Paul). It's not shilling if I'm asking you to look at the hard, cold facts and hear someone out in their own words. What you are doing is a political hit job. You have no facts to back up your claims so you revert to name calling (groomed-poodle, republican monetary ignoramus, warmonger, etc.). This is child's play and you should be ashamed of yourself. Come back with some actual facts if you want to have an adult conversation.

[Gumba of Liberty]

Becoming less free is not a pathway to becoming more free. If some 'temporary' restrictions on liberty was all that was standing between us and a 'libertarian world,' we would have been free a century ago.

We (some of us - mostly white dudes) were freer a century ago. Smaller units of governments are always preferable to larger ones. If you abolished the Federal Government, some state governments would want to have a larger government (state healthcare, abolish guns, etc.) than they currently do. I would align myself with them to take down the Feds. In the same way, I will align with nationalist to take down global government. Let me ask you a few opposing questions to crystalize my position: Would you support a world dictator if he promised to respect natural rights and create a libertarian paradise? Do you believe that would be a free world? Would you force people to be free? I think you know my answer.

[undergroundrr]

Would you force people to be free?

But that's what closed borders would do. The end goal is to allow into a territory only those of a designated and defined liberty persuasion (and would apparently take shortcuts by trying to identify heritages, cultures, races, religions supposedly anathema to liberty), expelling infidels or keeping them out of that government's jurisdiction by force.

And any inside the borders who have a change of heart and express dissent would lose their right to their property therein, requiring thought police.

Closed borders are the signature of a Soviet-style police state. Liberty there would be illusory.

[Gumba of Liberty]

But that's what closed borders would do. The end goal is to allow into a territory only those of a designated and defined liberty persuasion (and would apparently take shortcuts by trying to identify heritages, cultures, races, religions supposedly anathema to liberty), expelling infidels or keeping them out of that government's jurisdiction by force.

And any inside the borders who have a change of heart and express dissent would lose their right to their property therein, requiring thought police.

Closed borders are the signature of a Soviet-style police state. Liberty there would be illusory.

Where did I say I'm against immigration? I'm against unfettered immigration when you have magnets (welfare, free school, etc) and a government dead set on undermining the property rights of American citizens. Globalist are using immigrants to turn democracy into a weapon to transform America. The goal is to dilute the belief in private property and individual rights (including guns) amongst the population. This has nothing to do with race or religion (they will call you racist if you oppose them but they don't really care about immigrants). These people are being imported because they are socialists and will help the elite erode your individual (property) rights.

And you think I'm an enemy of freedom. Boy, do they have you guys fooled.

[undergroundrr]

And you think I'm an enemy of freedom.

I called you no such thing. The "importing socialists" thing is a ruse. Promote economic liberty through education and gradual repeal of benefits programs. That will take a very, very long time, but no longer than the kind of attritional ideoleogical eugenics attempted by restricting freedom of movement and property rights through immigration policy.

Anyhow, it's all academic right now. We have a pro-benefits (for whites), big-spending president and his right-hand man Bannon who doesn't seem to differ from that agenda. There you have it until at least 2016. The best you can hope for is more welfare for whites. Sadly, Mike Pence seems to have been a stalwart for uncompromising support of senior benefits as well.

[MallsRGood]

Also, I would love it if you could define this "alt-right" for me. Sound like some buzz word thrown out by the MSM to confuse and divide the simpletons. Don't get me wrong, I do believe "right" and "left" are important... when using GPS :rolleyes:

The term "alt-right" was coined by Richard Spencer, founder of a white nationalist magazine by the same name.

The alt-right is white nationalism, softened and repackaged for public consumption.

It is, of course, of the left.

It's anti-capitalist, nationalist rantings would be right at home on any progressive blog, just replace "globalism" with "neoliberalism."

In Europe, the nationalists are more overtly leftist. In the US, they sometimes make small-government-ish noises to attract people in the GOP who are accustomed to that kind of rhetoric (though don't actually believe in it any more than the Democrats, as evidenced by the kind of politicians they've been supporting for their entire lives).

[Gumba of Liberty]

I called you no such thing. The "importing socialists" thing is a ruse. Promote economic liberty through education and gradual repeal of benefits programs. That will take a very, very long time, but no longer than the kind of attritional ideoleogical eugenics attempted by restricting freedom of movement and property rights through immigration policy.

Anyhow, it's all academic right now. We have a pro-benefits (for whites), big-spending president and his right-hand man Bannon who doesn't seem to differ from that agenda. There you have it until at least 2016. The best you can hope for is more welfare for whites. Sadly, Mike Pence seems to have been a stalwart for uncompromising support of senior benefits as well.

Thank you and I hope you're right. I see this unfolding differently. I see the globalists using the U.S. Military to destroy nations (War on Terror/Drugs) and import people who have no education and/or understanding of individual rights to democratic western nations for the purpose of keeping (pretend socialist) globalist politicians in power (and in the process stirring local populations into irrational fear) while the Elite position us for Civil War right before they raise interest rates and destroy (what's left) of the U.S. Economy. I don't think the rigged markets will be able to hold forever so I don't believe we will be able to educate all of these new immigrants (many of which do not speak English) before the economy goes to hell in a hand basket. I would rather control the border and call off the wars (on terror and drugs) right now than allow confused and (justifiably) angry, socialists and theocrats to waltz into this country before the powder keg blows.

[Gumba of Liberty]

The term "alt-right" was coined by Richard Spencer, founder of a white nationalist magazine by the same name.

The alt-right is white nationalism, softened and repackaged for public consumption.

It is, of course, of the left.

It's anti-capitalist, nationalist rantings would be right at home on any progressive blog, just replace "globalism" with "neoliberalism."

In Europe, the nationalists are more overtly leftist. In the US, they sometimes make small-government-ish noises to attract people in the GOP who are accustomed to that kind of rhetoric (though don't actually believe in it any more than the Democrats, as evidenced by the kind of politicians they've been supporting for their entire lives).

Thank you for providing the definition. Sounds like National Socialism to me. My issue is that if you watch the OP Video I doubt you will find any of what you described. Bannon does not fit that definition (of Alt-Right) from my research.

[undergroundrr]

I see the globalists using the U.S. Military to destroy nations (War on Terror/Drugs)

See http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?507663-Trump-s-World-War-III-Plans

[Gumba of Liberty]

See http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?507663-Trump-s-World-War-III-Plans

If this comes to fruition I will, obviously, change my position. At that point, Bannon's actions will speak louder than his words. Until then I will remain skeptical of blind Bannon support and blind Bannon bashing. I will ride the facts to the end. Let's see where they take us.

[TheCount]

We (some of us - mostly white dudes) were freer a century ago.Yes, and then some people like you came along and insisted that we would all be safer and 'freer' if only we just enacted a few simple policies first.


I presume that you're aware of the racial basis behind both modern gun control and the war on drugs, yes?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Yes, and then some people like you came along and insisted that we would all be safer and 'freer' if only we just enacted a few simple policies first.





You voted Obama twice and Thomas Dixon and you have the nerve to talk about freedom?!

[TheCount]

You voted Obama twice and Thomas Dixon and you have the nerve to talk about freedom?!Do you intend to copy/paste your false accusations beneath all of my posts in order to derail threads again?

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Do you intend to copy/paste your false accusations beneath all of my posts...


Discussing voting choices on a politics forum is "false accusations?"




...in order to derail threads again?

You derail practically ever thread you enter, so why are you saying this? :confused:

[H. E. Panqui]

gumba of 'liberty' :rolleyes: teabags: 'I don't even think you read the article because nothing within it proves your point...'

:rolleyes:

...my 'point' was simply to show you that your stinking republican teabagger, bannon, uses the false 'left/right' paradigm/'worldview' that you FALSELY accused me of using!...and i clearly exposed you...

...you and your stinking republican bannon have NOTHING except pathetic rhetoric....remember, it's YOU who shills/apologizes for a stinking teabag republican (bannon) who promotes gd fool republican warmongers, monetary ignoramuses, etc., like sarah palin, michelle bachmann, ann coulter, etc. ad nauseam...

...why don't you be honest for once and NAME THE NAMES OF THOSE CURRENT FEDERAL OFFICEHOLDERS YOU CONSIDER TO BE PART OF 'THE LIBERTY :rolleyes: MOVEMENT' about which you yap...i strongly suspect your stinking 'liberty :rolleyes: movement' are people lionized frequently by republican-radio fools, etc. republican media apparatchiks...AGAIN, your stinking republicans are no closer to honest 'liberty' than the stinking democrats...get real...

[Jamesiv1]

is anybody still talking about steve bannon? I think he's pretty good. there's a tube floating out there of bannon giving about a 45-minute talk to a bunch of business guys. I watched it and became a fan.

[H. E. Panqui]

...instead of all the mindless cheerleading for this OBVIOUS gd fool teabag republican, bannon, could one you bannon/trump cheerleaders PLEASE MERELY COPY AND PASTE HIS ACTUAL (pathetic rhetoric) WORDS?!...bannon cheerleaders, how about his best consecutive 100+ words...is that too much to ask?...

[teabag republicans deluded that they are 'libertarians' :rolleyes: ...too much republican radio for some i guess...]

[Jamesiv1]

...instead of all the mindless cheerleading for this OBVIOUS gd fool teabag republican, bannon, could one you bannon/trump cheerleaders PLEASE MERELY COPY AND PASTE HIS ACTUAL (pathetic rhetoric) WORDS?!...bannon cheerleaders, how about his best consecutive 100+ words...is that too much to ask?...

[teabag republicans deluded that they are 'libertarians' :rolleyes: ...too much republican radio for some i guess...]
Here is the speech I was referring to:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nTd2ZAX_tc

[H. E. Panqui]

:rolleyes:

...again, i listened to your gd fool teabag republican and heard NOTHING but pathetic rhetoric...like many of ?your gd fool republicans/crats bannon points out some problems...big deal...with the apparent 'solution' :rolleyes: being to let him and your stinking conservative republicans run thing$...

...remember YOU are the one making the positive claims favoring yet another republican/crat apparatchik...it's up to YOU to defend his stinking teabag republican rhetoric....you know, the actual words [transcript please] that he utters...as for me, i know he's full of $hit..and i'm not going to guess which of his stinking teabag republican sentences, paragraphs, etc., you find so compelling...PASTE YOUR FAVORITE WORDS OF HIS AND I WILL EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY I KNOW HE'S FULL OF CRAP!...

...get to it, republican cheerleaders!!!...quit stalling!!..;)

[Jamesiv1]

:rolleyes:

...again, i listened to your gd fool teabag republican and heard NOTHING but pathetic rhetoric...like many of ?your gd fool republicans/crats bannon points out some problems...big deal...with the apparent 'solution' :rolleyes: being to let him and your stinking conservative republicans run thing$...

...remember YOU are they one making the positive claims favoring yet another republican/crat apparatchik...it's up to YOU to defend his stinking teabag republican rhetoric....you know, the actual words [transcript please] that he utters...as for me, i know he's full of $hit..and i'm not going to guess which of his stinking teabag republican sentences, paragraphs, etc., you find so compelling...PASTE YOUR FAVORITE WORDS OF HIS AND I WILL EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY I KNOW HE'S FULL OF CRAP!...

...get to it, republican cheerleaders!!!...quit stalling!!..;)
You sir, are no lover of liberty.

You might want to do some research before you embarrass yourself again.

[H. E. Panqui]

jamesiv 1 stalls: You sir, are no lover of liberty.

:rolleyes:

...you STILL can't even merely copy and paste any of bannon's 'great words' :rolleyes: you want to submit as a shining example?!...what kind of a republican cheerleader are you?!..;) [good god, this place is getting as bad as 'free republic'[an]

...your stinking teabag republicans wouldn't know 'liberty' if it were on the end of their @!%$....

[i can't wait to see some $pecific$ from these teabag republican trumpsters] ;)

[undergroundrr]

i'm not going to guess which of his stinking teabag republican sentences, paragraphs, etc., you find so compelling...PASTE YOUR FAVORITE WORDS OF HIS

Never happen. I've asked for this 100 times on different threads. When drive-by Youtube bombing passes for discourse, you can rest assured there isn't anything there but somebody's man-crush.

[Jamesiv1]

why don't you guys just watch the video? it's only 24 minutes.

[Gumba of Liberty]

Never happen. I've asked for this 100 times on different threads. When drive-by Youtube bombing passes for discourse, you can rest assured there isn't anything there but somebody's man-crush.

You guys are unreal. Refusing to watch the video and demanding I provide you with notes. Classic non-argument. But, just to end this once and for all, I'll rewatch it and post a few quotes that I like. Don't have time to watch it right now but I'll post it later today. You're welcome.

[H. E. Panqui]

gumba of 'liberty' :rolleyes: teabags: Refusing to watch the video and demanding I provide you with notes.

:rolleyes:

...ashamedly, i did watch your stinking teabag republican video...pathetic rhetoric....

...[i can't wait to see the trump/bannon 4 trillion dollar 'liberty' budget!] :rolleyes:

[H. E. Panqui]

...i was trying to uncover some republicrat dirt on 'gumba of liberty' and i was pleasantly surprised :eek: to find that gumba is possibly somewhat of an honest [and very rare] 'monetary realist'...good for you, gumba!..'scream it from the mountain-tops' as you wrote later in this thread:...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?494084-Bernie-Sanders-the-FRAUD-Hypocrite&p=6199297#post6199297

"Fractional-Reserve banking is fraud, plain and simple. Banks have two distinct functions: Warehousing or protecting commodity-backed savings accounts (depositors pay for this) & Lending or investing in profitable businesses (borrowers pay for this). Fractional-Reserve Banks merge these two responsibilities into one without the consent of the depositor.

In a free-market economy, depositors, especially those with large savings accounts, would be asked by their banker if they would be willing to lend (invest) their money to produce a return (profit). The banker would have to convince the depositor that lending their money to a business was going to produce an actual profit...."
[your priorities seem great to me, gumba!!...what confuses me is why you would apologize for these stinking teabag, 'liberty :rolleyes: movement', republicans..NONE OF WHOM--please correct me if i'm wrong-HAVE EVER PUBLICLY ARTICULATED THE POWERFUL, SIMPLE TRUTH$ I BELIEVE THAT YOU WANT PROMULGATED...it seems really really strange to me that you would urge 'regular folks' [btw, 'ender' is no 'regular folk'...ender appears to be a rare, knowledgeable monetary realist] to 'scream it from the mountain-tops' as you shill/apologize for OBVIOUS republicrat poodle$ in po$ition$ of power who NEVER EVER publicly utter an hone$t peep about this HIDEOUS monetary order under which we are en$laved, abu$ed, etc.!!] :confused:

...also how about some names as to this 'liberty movement' which you promote...teach me something, ?teacher..;)

[nikcers]

some republicrat
“As I look at what we might have expected from a President Mitt Romney or a President Marco Rubio, or a President Jeb Bush at the beginning of their tenures in office, I can’t see much difference between what President Trump is doing and what they would have done,” McConnell, R-Ky

[Gumba of Liberty]

Never happen. I've asked for this 100 times on different threads. When drive-by Youtube bombing passes for discourse, you can rest assured there isn't anything there but somebody's man-crush.


Speaking at the Liberty Foundation, Steve Bannon stated the following:

“These guys (Hitler, Mao, Stalin etc.) couldn’t even envision what we have done to ourselves.”

“We are upside down, the industrial democracies have a massive problem, we are highly overleverage and we have built in a welfare state that is completely and totally unsupportable.”

“Barack Obama is not the problem. Barack Obama is a symptom of a problem.”

“(Women) know that buddy and sis are going to a state university coming back $50,000 in debt and living back in their room with soccer trophies with no job prospects.”

“The generation in their 20s and 30s, we’ve wiped them out.”

“The sad thing about the occupy Wall Street, when you look at those kids, is how ill informed they are. That's the product of American education system. They have no more earthly idea of the fundamentals of our liberty, of free-market capitalism and they know nothing of our history. That’s why I call them Generation Zero. We’ve past on zero net worth.”

“Since the tea party revolt, which the republican establishment did not support… the conservative intelligentsia (Billy Kristol) was mocking the Tea Party.”

“This is the 4th great crisis in American history. We had the Revolution, the Civil War, the Great Depression & WWII, this is the great 4th turning in American History.”

“All the easy decisions were years ago, everything from here on in is going to be hard, and nasty, and ugly and your going to be called every name in the book. You’re going to be vilified.”

“Why is the budget not cut? The budgets not cut because the budgets not easy to cut. Everybody’s going to have to take a hit here. And if we draw a line, and it has to be a tough line, no more taxes. No more tax increases. You’re just exacerbating a problem. “

“(The American People) are those who carry not those who drink water… and their enraged. Here’s why their enraged: they understand we have a system now that has socialism for the very poor. A system that's (a) trillion dollars a year in welfare state benefits with no taxes and 60% of the country getting that. And we have socialism for the very wealthy. The anger of the Tea Party is not racism, there not homophobes, they’re not nativists. What they are, are middle-class, common sense people that understand they are paying for their own and their children’s destruction. And that’s the rage.”

“There is no recession in the Hampton’s, there is not recession in Georgetown. The other day the Washington Post reports 5 of the 7 wealthiest counties are the suburbs of Washington DC… that is not a random event.”

“We have a compromised political class… it’s quiet simple, how does a guy go to Washington, basically making a $100,000 dollars a year as a lawyer in some locality, and at the end of 10 years, on a $165,000 and another $15,000 by Federal money he can make… how’s his net worth $5 million dollars?

“There’s only a small core that prepared to take their Tuesday night and not just write a check, but actually throw your being in trying to change this… In a hundred years from now, when they look back, if we come out of this crisis and we are still the country… of American Exceptionalism based upon Judeo-Christian values, believing in freedom, and being the greatest country in the world and the torch of freedom. "


He's not Ron Paul but exactly where is Bannon wrong?

[nikcers]

where is Bannon
Bannon is Dog
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/im-telling-you-the-man-and-the-dog-are-working-together.jpg

[Gumba of Liberty]

...i was trying to uncover some republicrat dirt on 'gumba of liberty' and i was pleasantly surprised :eek: to find that gumba is possibly somewhat of an honest [and very rare] 'monetary realist'...good for you, gumba!..'scream it from the mountain-tops' as you wrote later in this thread:...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?494084-Bernie-Sanders-the-FRAUD-Hypocrite&p=6199297#post6199297

"Fractional-Reserve banking is fraud, plain and simple. Banks have two distinct functions: Warehousing or protecting commodity-backed savings accounts (depositors pay for this) & Lending or investing in profitable businesses (borrowers pay for this). Fractional-Reserve Banks merge these two responsibilities into one without the consent of the depositor.

In a free-market economy, depositors, especially those with large savings accounts, would be asked by their banker if they would be willing to lend (invest) their money to produce a return (profit). The banker would have to convince the depositor that lending their money to a business was going to produce an actual profit...."
[your priorities seem great to me, gumba!!...what confuses me is why you would apologize for these stinking teabag, 'liberty :rolleyes: movement', republicans..NONE OF WHOM--please correct me if i'm wrong-HAVE EVER PUBLICLY ARTICULATED THE POWERFUL, SIMPLE TRUTH$ I BELIEVE THAT YOU WANT PROMULGATED...it seems really really strange to me that you would urge 'regular folks' [btw, 'ender' is no 'regular folk'...ender appears to be a rare, knowledgeable monetary realist] to 'scream it from the mountain-tops' as you shill/apologize for OBVIOUS republicrat poodle$ in po$ition$ of power who NEVER EVER publicly utter an hone$t peep about this HIDEOUS monetary order under which we are en$laved, abu$ed, etc.!!] :confused:

...also how about some names as to this 'liberty movement' which you promote...teach me something, ?teacher..;)

I apologize for no mans sins but my own. Is Steve Bannon perfect? No. Do I believe that he cares about the American People? Yes. Do I see him as an ally in our fight for Liberty? Yes.

If you want to purify the Liberty Movement and exclude anyone who might not agree 100% with Locke, Cato, Bastiat, Ricardo, Mises, Hayek or Rothbard take a look at the success of the Libertarian Party. An irrelevant group of nobodies (much preferable to the relevant lunatics in the D/R uniparty) who fundamentally misunderstand the psychology of the people.

The way I will fight for liberty is simple. I will support anyone if they have a position that increases my (and your) freedom. Even if I disagree with you on 90% of the issues, if we can find common ground we can work together. I don't care if you're a hardcore California Democrat; I will support you if you promote the end to the Wars (Terror & Drugs), vaccine choice, raw milk, legal prostitution, community policing, "small is beautiful", "question authority" etc. I also don't care if you are a hardcore Bible-Belt Republican; I will support you if you promote guns rights, private property rights, the devolution of power (states rights), homesteading, competing currencies, "live free or die", etc.

I am playing the long game. You would be surprised how many people would support us if they weren't brainwash by public schools (and yes I am a public school teacher) and the media. The Nationalist "Hamiltonian" Movement that we are currently witnessing, with Trump and Bannon at the helm, is not fundamentally opposed to our libertarian ideals codified in the Declaration of Independence like the globalists are. They want to "Make America Great Again" (and greater than ever before). We want to "Make America Free Again" (and freer than ever before). We have a lot of common ground and a lot to work with here. Think of all the positives:

1. The Media is exposed.
2. The Uniparty is exposed.
3. The Intelligence Agencies are exposed.
4. The Neocons are exposed.
5. The EU is exposed.
6. WWIII has (for now) been averted.
7. California wants to secede. The fact that this statement isn't a joke is incredible.

We have a lot of work to do but I see rays of light shining through. The Liberty Movement is growing. And not just in America but worldwide. I would include Nigel Farage, Le Pen, Duarte (I know he's a murderer) and many others leaders coming to power to take back their countries from the globalists as allies. We need to have real countries (nation-states) again before we can return the power to the local level and the individual. Defeat the Globalist! Down with the Wilsonian Technocratic Warmongers! Unite on our common issues and we win easily. If we stay divided we will lose. Once the globalist are put down we will (easily) defeat the Hamilton's with our ideas. With our 1st Amendment and 2nd Amendments protected (The American Nationalists are fiercely pro-1st & 2nd Amendment) we will have the advantage when we have them one-on-one. The ideas of liberty and natural rights are as real as mathematics and physics. They are laws of nature. We have the truth on our side. I am not a worried man.

Just my take.

[nikcers]

WWIII has (for now) been averted.


Whatawonderfulworld.jpg

[Gumba of Liberty]

Two current articles to help make my point:


Break Up the USA - Lew Rockwell
"Of course we would like to see liberty flourish everywhere. But it’s foolish not to accept more limited victories and finite goals when these are the only realistic options.

The great libertarians – from Felix Morley and Frank Chodorov to Murray Rothbard and Hans Hoppe — have always favored political decentralization; F.A. Hayek once said that in the future liberty was more likely to flourish in small states. This is surely the way forward for us today, if we want to see tangible changes in our lifetimes."
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2017/02/lew-rockwell/break-usa/


Retired Green Beret Warns: Deep State's Utopia Of Oligarchs Is "Enslavement And Complete Control Of All Of Mankind" - Zerohedge
"...one can easily see that only those hell-bent on weakening the U.S. and fostering infiltration would be against the order: those Marxists of the Left labeled as “Democrats” and calling themselves “Progressives.”

They are not alone: they are aided by the Left-Right, which is even worse. The Left-Right are those masquerading as Republican Conservatives, when they are Marxist-Leftists and proponents of Global Governance and the New World Order. They are the Paul Ryans, the Mitch McConnells, and the Newt Gingriches. They are the pseudo-Republican politico’s in office presently and in the past who have those CFR slots and are working toward their fantasy: The Utopia of Oligarchs.

Even if they do not overtly act on behalf of the Marxists, they have been guilty…numerous times…of enabling the Marxists through the complacency of inactivity.

They do not simply wish to derail the actions of President Trump: it is a much larger concept than that. They see themselves as “partners” with the Left in the same game: to establish an elitist politico-oligarchic ruling class, broken down into divisions throughout the globe for ethno-cultural manipulation, yet with the same end-state. That goal is the enslavement and complete control of all of mankind with the elitists ensconced as the ruling moneyed class. They see themselves as the educated, sensible minority with tender sensibilities and true humanistic views…who must…must…take a stand in the globalist crusade against the barbaric Neanderthals of the proletariat and populist serfs."
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-18/retired-green-beret-warns-deep-states-utopia-oligarchs-enslavement-and-complete-cont

[undergroundrr]

He's not Ron Paul but exactly where is Bannon wrong?

Okay, great. So let's boil it down.

Welfare state bad.
Job market sux.
Fourth Turning is at hand (does he want it or is he trying to protect us from it?)
DC is corrupt.
American Exceptionalism (we're under attack!!!).

Other than the American Exceptionalism part, I don't see any way that any of his apparent influence on policy so far has addressed any of that. The swamp have cabinet positions, there's no discussion of entitlements other than miniscule department cutting (NEA etc.).

What's conspicuous in its absence?
The Military-Industrial Complex and its complicity in impoverishing Americans and egging on the welfare state.
Any plan to reduce Americans' dependence on entitlements. His spending plans will only increase it.

This doesn't change my picture of Bannon as a Keynesian stimulus spender (military and infrastructure) with no courage or even impulse for reciprocal cutting (the better to bring on the Fourth Turning?). It's the very thing that has gotten us where we are economically and socially.

[Gumba of Liberty]

Okay, great. So let's boil it down.

Welfare state bad.
Job market sux.
Fourth Turning is at hand (does he want it or is he trying to protect us from it?)
DC is corrupt.
American Exceptionalism (we're under attack!!!).

Other than the American Exceptionalism part, I don't see any way that any of his apparent influence on policy so far has addressed any of that. The swamp have cabinet positions, there's no discussion of entitlements other than miniscule department cutting (NEA etc.).

What's conspicuous in its absence?
The Military-Industrial Complex and its complicity in impoverishing Americans and egging on the welfare state.
Any plan to reduce Americans' dependence on entitlements. His spending plans will only increase it.

This doesn't change my picture of Bannon as a Keynesian stimulus spender (military and infrastructure) with no courage or even impulse for reciprocal cutting (the better to bring on the Fourth Turning?). It's the very thing that has gotten us where we are economically and socially.

We will see shortly. I think you can concede that much of the Bannon bashing is done fast and loose with the facts. I definitely see a problem with the "rebuild the military" talk. But, and this is a big but, this could easily be a well crafted insurance policy designed to rob the globalist of a major key to power. Assassination become much harder when the police and military are on Trump's side. This is the main reason Trump is driving the civilian intelligence agencies (CIA/CNN) crazy. Back to the military budget, do you really think Trump and Bannon are really going to put up with $60 hammers and toilet seats when they take control of the Pentagon budget? The military could be fully armed with the latest technology for $100 billion if the budget was done right. If Trump (and Bannon) raises the military budget I'll denounce him for it. Until then, I'll reserve judgement.

More on "Keys to Power" from Rules for Rulers:
https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs

[H. E. Panqui]

gumba applauds bannon's: “We are upside down, the industrial democracies have a massive problem, we are highly overleveraged and we have built in a welfare state that is completely and totally unsupportable.”

:cool:

...ummm...ok...your stinking republicrats have made utterances about 'out of control spending' since i can remember..big deal...what your obvious $heepdog/poodle cro$$, bannon, won't ever 'scream from the mountain-tops' is 'THE BIGGE$T BENEFICIARIE$ OF 'WELFARE,' $PECIAL ACT$ OF LEGI$LATION IN THEIR FAVOR, ETC., ARE OWNER$ OF BANK CORPORATION$!!..like the one he was/is a$$ociated with...

...btw, i noticed you can't come up with a full 100 consecutive word quote from bannon...let's face it, you may enjoy his stinking teabag political rhetoric, but please understand it's all just more stinking rhetoric...WHERE ARE THE SPECIFIC PROPOSALS FOR IMPROVEMENT?!..

...your 'fractional reserve banking is a fraud plain and simple' paragraph is waaaaaay more insightful and to the root$ of 'the problem' than anything i can find that race bannon has ever written or said...AGAIN, you seem to under$tand 'the problem'...how can you cheerlead for another stinking republican/crat pol. IN A PO$ITION OF POWER who won't $peak above his breath about $omething you understand needs to be 'screamed from the mountain-top'??!!..i don't get it!?...how can an honest monetary realist have any respect for any of these gd fool republicrats!?...:confused:

...sorry about the bolding...computer gremlins at rpf?

[CPUd]

https://i.imgur.com/f0TPPn4.png

[Gumba of Liberty]

...ummm...ok...your stinking republicrats have made utterances about 'out of control spending' since i can remember..big deal...what your obvious $heepdog/poodle cro$$, bannon, won't ever 'scream from the mountain-tops' is 'THE BIGGE$T BENEFICIARIE$ OF 'WELFARE,' $PECIAL ACT$ OF LEGI$LATION IN THEIR FAVOR, ETC., ARE OWNER$ OF BANK CORPORATION$!!..like the one he was/is a$$ociated with...

True. Over 90% of welfare goes to the Bankers. It's also true that Bannon worked for Goldman (The Devil) Sachs from 1985 to 1990. Before working at Goldman he was a US Naval Officer and after he made a small fortune by investing in part-ownership of Seinfeld re-runs and became a Hollywood filmmaker. We will see if Bannon is spewing BS to "Make the World Safe for Goldman Sachs" shortly. I think Bannon has had a unique career and has done a lot since he left Goldman. Back in the 80's who wouldn't have wanted to work for Goldman Sachs (pre-Red Pill)? I probably would have. Is he a Rothbardian Anarco-Capitalist? No. Does he talk about the fraud that is Fractional Reserve Banking? No, but neither does anyone else including Dr. Paul & Rand (God, Rand if only your balls weren't locked in McConnell's purse).


...btw, i noticed you can't come up with a full 100 consecutive word quote from bannon...let's face it, you may enjoy his stinking teabag political rhetoric, but please understand it's all just more stinking rhetoric...WHERE ARE THE SPECIFIC PROPOSALS FOR IMPROVEMENT?!..

Dude, I re-watched the video and typed it out myself. I'm not a wizard.


...your 'fractional reserve banking is a fraud plain and simple' paragraph is waaaaaay more insightful and to the root$ of 'the problem' than anything i can find that race bannon has ever written or said...AGAIN, you seem to under$tand 'the problem'...how can you cheerlead for another stinking republican/crat pol. IN A PO$ITION OF POWER who won't $peak above his breath about $omething you understand needs to be 'screamed from the mountain-top'??!!..i don't get it!?...how can an honest monetary realist have any respect for any of these gd fool republicrats!?...:confused:

Thank you for your kind words but I don't have respect for any people in power. I do realize, however, when an individual, or group, can be beneficial to my cause (liberty). If the establishment splinters and goes to war with itself I will cheer the rebel faction on if they intend on smashing the deep state. When the deep state is weakened we will have one hell of an opportunity to provide the people with an alternative.

If the Liberty Movement were smart, brave liberty-loving men and women in deep-blue states would run for local, state and federal office as Democrats. If the Republicans are to lean nationalists (like their hero Lincoln) then hijack the (currently globalist) Democratic Party and return it to the localists (Just don't call it that, rather call it something to the effect of: Human Scale, Community First, Small is Beautiful, etc). Stand on the issues of ending the wars (terror & drugs), legalizing drugs, taking an axe to the Imperial Presidency, abolishing the CIA, ending Corporate Personhood, ending limited-liability, restoring (property rights based) pollution law, supporting (unfettering) small business, arresting the Wall Street Bankers, ending the Fed, abolishing fractional-reserve banking, and protecting the Bill of Rights.

Most of you will probably think I'm insane for advocating a libertarian to run for political office within the two-party structure. The problem with that logic is that the only man to truly ever make it to Congress as a (true) libertarian changed the world. He was old, he had poor debating skills, and he still changed the world. The Democratic Party is in shambles. The media hates Trump and would cover, with rose colored glasses, anyone who opposes him. Just something to think about.

[CPUd]

833110685299200000
https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/833110685299200000

[Gumba of Liberty]

833110685299200000
https://twitter.com/justinamash/status/833110685299200000

+1. The wind is at our back.

[H. E. Panqui]

gumba falters: '1. The Media is exposed.
2. The Uniparty is exposed.
3. The Intelligence Agencies are exposed.
4. The Neocons are exposed.
5. The EU is exposed.
6. WWIII has (for now) been averted.
7. California wants to secede. The fact that this statement isn't a joke is incredible.'

:cool:

...1.) 'the media' are, e$$entially, 'the bank$ter$'..yes, your republican fools have expressed deserved disgust at the stinking 'liberal' (democrat) media...but they also express undeserved respect/praise towards the/?your stinking 'conservative' (republican) media...SAME OLD SAME OLD..get real...turn off the stinking alex jones...
..2.) 'the uniparty' are, again, 'the bank$ters'...and no, your republican fools haven't come anywhere near expo$ing 'them'...[you as much as admit/acknowledge this yourself in previous $tatements..]
...3.) see no.1 and 2...
...4.) see no. 1, 2, and 3....
[hopefully you catch my drift..] ...

...same old same old...GET REAL!!...we'd be better off were we to 'choose names from a hat'/randomly select people to assume 'public office' rather than allowing the goddamned democrat party inc. or your goddamned republican party inc. to DOMINATE 'public' :rolleyes: office....it's OBVIOUS to anyone not a goddamned republicrat fool that your stinking republicans are at least half of 'the problem'...

[H. E. Panqui]

gumba of 'the liberty movement' writes: 'If you want to purify the Liberty Movement and exclude anyone who might not agree 100% with Locke, Cato, Bastiat, Ricardo, Mises, Hayek or Rothbard take a look at the success of the Libertarian Party. An irrelevant group of nobodies (much preferable to the relevant lunatics in the D/R uniparty) who fundamentally misunderstand the psychology of the people.'

:rolleyes:

...ugh...way too much radio, brother...turn it off...the succe$$ of any politcal party approaches a direct correlation with the 'dollar$' they have available to them...so yes, your stinking republican party inc. enjoys lot$ more succe$$ than the poor little libertarian party inc...big deal...your republican party 'success' has little to do with the quality of ?your [monstrously twisted] republican 'ideas'....

...btw, it's YOU who fundamentally misunderstands the psychology of this ;) person if you think i'm going swallow your notion of 'liberty'...you haven't been honest about this 'liberty :rolleyes: movement' about which you apparently hallucinate, but i strongly suspect your stinking 'liberty movement' derives from the same republican party inc. fools/poodle$ who disgrace humanity for a living...NAME SOME NAMES OF THE LEGISLATIVE LEADERS OF THIS 'LIBERTY :rolleyes: MOVEMENT'!!...FOR ONCE!..

..[sadly, i strongly sense another stinking, phony 'reagan era' coming...many republican party cheerleaders with their fingers stuck in their ears to anything not favorable to the disgusting republican party inc....UGH!....republicrats from sea to shining sea..] :mad:

[H. E. Panqui]

gumba quotes bannon's powerful :rolleyes: ideas: “There’s only a small core that prepared to take their Tuesday night and not just write a check, but actually throw your being in trying to change this… In a hundred years from now, when they look back, if we come out of this crisis and we are still the country… of American Exceptionalism based upon Judeo-Christian values, believing in freedom, and being the greatest country in the world and the torch of freedom. "

:rolleyes:

...if your republicrat fools/puppet$ are still in control 100 years from now, i have little doubt that the stinking 'history' will read exactly like 'they' want...

...hint for republicrats:...as one wag put it, “While boasting of our noble deeds we're careful to conceal the ugly fact that by an iniquitous money system we have nationalized a system of oppression which, though more refined, is not less cruel than the old system of chattel slavery."

..[yeah, your stinking 'judeo christian' republicrats are 'exceptional' :rolleyes: ]...ugh...

...teach the children well, gumba...tell the truth...tell them how your stinking republicrats treat corporations like people and people like corporations...$cream it from the blackboard... ;)

[Ender]

gumba quotes bannon's powerful :rolleyes: ideas: “There’s only a small core that prepared to take their Tuesday night and not just write a check, but actually throw your being in trying to change this… In a hundred years from now, when they look back, if we come out of this crisis and we are still the country… of American Exceptionalism based upon Judeo-Christian values, believing in freedom, and being the greatest country in the world and the torch of freedom. "

:rolleyes:

...if your republicrat fools/puppet$ are still in control 100 years from now, i have little doubt that the stinking 'history' will read exactly like 'they' want...

...hint for republicrats:...as one wag put it, “While boasting of our noble deeds we're careful to conceal the ugly fact that by an iniquitous money system we have nationalized a system of oppression which, though more refined, is not less cruel than the old system of chattel slavery."

..[yeah, your stinking 'judeo christian' republicrats are 'exceptional' :rolleyes: ]...ugh...

...teach the children well, gumba...tell the truth...tell them how your stinking republicrats treat corporations like people and people like corporations...$cream it from the blackboard... ;)

BTW- Judeo-Christian values was NEVER part of the founding of America.

Overall, Americans hated Jews until waaay after WWII when it became "in" to accept them- then all of a sudden this "Judeo-Christian values" phrase popped into the spotlight.

[Brian4Liberty]

BTW- Judeo-Christian values was NEVER part of the founding of America.

Overall, Americans hated Jews until waaay after WWII when it became "in" to accept them- then all of a sudden this "Judeo-Christian values" phrase popped into the spotlight.

More specifically, it was a Protestant nation. JFK being a Catholic was a huge controversy.

[nikcers]

More specifically, it was a Protestant nation. JFK being a Catholic was a huge controversy.

On the liberty report yesterday Ron Paul said the CIA killed JFK.

[Ender]

More specifically, it was a Protestant nation. JFK being a Catholic was a huge controversy.

Truth.

[Ender]

On the liberty report yesterday Ron Paul said the CIA killed JFK.

And Truth again.

[H. E. Panqui]

hanky panky wrote:...if your republicrat fools/puppet$ are still in control 100 years from now, i have little doubt that the stinking 'history' will read exactly like 'they' want...

:o

...someone tell that ^^ dumbass panky that it's the banksters who are 'in control'...the republicrat politicians are merely puppet$, fools, hired cretins, etc..

...btw, i must thank gumba for starting this thread and transcribing some of the 'great' :rolleyes: words/ideas emanating from trumptard bannon...the spoken word is subject to emotional influence...but the written word is frozen...unyielding...when bannon's WORDS ONLY are scrutinized he is CLEARLY exposed as another republican bs artist/$hill...

...it's good for cheerleaders for these stinking republicrats to confront the actual crap words/ideas of their stinking politicians, apparatchiks, etc..the spoken word allows for crap ideas/thoughts to be slickly and confidently delivered such that it confuses/fools many people into believing the speaker is truly intelligent, worthy, etc..

[Gumba of Liberty]

hanky panky wrote:...if your republicrat fools/puppet$ are still in control 100 years from now, i have little doubt that the stinking 'history' will read exactly like 'they' want...

:o

...someone tell that ^^ dumbass panky that it's the banksters who are 'in control'...the republicrat politicians are merely puppet$, fools, hired cretins, etc..

...btw, i must thank gumba for starting this thread and transcribing some of the 'great' :rolleyes: words/ideas emanating from trumptard bannon... the spoken word is subject to emotional influence...but the written word is frozen...unyielding...when bannon's WORDS ONLY are scrutinized he is CLEARLY exposed as another republican bs artist/$hill...

...it's good for cheerleaders for these stinking republicrats to confront the actual crap words/ideas of their stinking politicians, apparatchiks, etc..the spoken word allows for crap ideas/thoughts to be slickly and confidently delivered such that it confuses/fools many people into believing the speaker is truly intelligent, worthy, etc..

Your closed, isolationist mind will be your downfall.

All able-bodied American Patriots are necessary in our fight with the International Bankers, including those we may disagree with.

Whether nationalist or individualist, we have a common enemy with massive resources and a lust to dominate all nations, all peoples, and all individuals. If you refuse to work with others to forward a common goal (political independence & sovereignty) then you are your own worst enemy.

P.S. Even Dr. Paul worked with Barney Frank on civil liberties. It's call coalition building and it's effective in changing heart and minds. Your grandstanding helps no one.

[Gumba of Liberty]

BTW here is Bannon (and Priebus) at CPAC for those who care:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkUPWb_TKS0

[H. E. Panqui]

gumba limbaughs: 'If you refuse to work with others to forward a common goal (political independence & sovereignty) then you are your own worst enemy'.

:rolleyes:

...get real!...the stinking, warmongering, monetary ignoramuses within your gd fool beavis republican party inc. are as much 'the enemy' as the butthead democrats your radio heroes whine about all gd day long!!...your miserable republican fools need to be exposed, ridiculed, spat-upon, etc...sorry, but only an ignorant masochistic dummy or a monster would/could 'work with' your stinking republicans...

[undergroundrr]

BTW here is Bannon (and Priebus) at CPAC for those who care:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkUPWb_TKS0

Concerning Bannon's evocation of "economic nationalism" in that interview:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Libertarian/comments/5vw6of/psa_economic_nationalism_is_not_compatible_with/


When Steve Bannon says that Trump's agenda is 'economic nationalism', he is putting Trump directly in opposition to libertarian values. Economic Nationalism means creating a larger, more powerful and interventionist state to direct economic activity to pursue the goals of the state.

In practice, this means having tight controls on the free movement of goods and people that is so vital to having free and open markets. It means clamping down on the foreign imports that prevent domestic monopolies. It means strategically using large subsidies to undercut rival nations so that the state can project power at the expense of taxpayers. It means concentrating economic power with elites who retain that power only as long as they loyal to the government and are useful politically. 'Economic Nationalism' means that a nation's economic structure becomes an extension of it's political structure. It means that the disruptive innovators that move capitalism forward are squashed by the state to protect politically useful incumbent monopolies. It means dealmaking that favors the interests of political insiders.

Trump's 'economic nationalism' is much worse than the incompetence of Sander's socialism-lite, because while Sander's platform might have costed taxpayers a fortune and created a raft of costly regulations, Trump's platform of economic nationalism will erode the institutions that allow free markets and free enterprise to exist in the first place: the rule of law, the separation of powers, political transparency, safeguards on economic freedom.

We can already see this in Trump's dealmaking with Carrier and Boeing. If these companies aren't loyal: they';re punished; but if they work towards Trump's political goals then in return Trump will shower them with benefits that give them a leg up on the competition. Over time this will tilt the incentives of companies way from innovation and competition and towards loyalty and political influence; if you want to see the endgame of this then just look at Putin's economically nationalist kleptocratic regime. Political dealmaking creates an economic order that is subservient to political interests of the state.

[Gumba of Liberty]

gumba limbaughs: 'If you refuse to work with others to forward a common goal (political independence & sovereignty) then you are your own worst enemy'.

:rolleyes:

...get real!...the stinking, warmongering, monetary ignoramuses within your gd fool beavis republican party inc. are as much 'the enemy' as the butthead democrats your radio heroes whine about all gd day long!!...your miserable republican fools need to be exposed, ridiculed, spat-upon, etc...sorry, but only an ignorant masochistic dummy or a monster would/could 'work with' your stinking republicans...

(Establishment) Republicans hate Bannon. Where did you get the idea I'm a Republican?

Bannon's an American Patriot. Until I see him sell out (with real proof) I will support him. I will support any Patriot trying to break the Globalist system. Patriots aren't all Rothbardian Indivdualists, but that is okay when you have a common enemy.

You disagree with me because you see Bannon as a Goldman Stoogie who is co-opting the Liberty Movement.

I disagree with you because I see Bannon as a Patriotic (Hamiltonian) Nationalist who is in a unique situation to cut the knees off the Deep State and restore American Sovereignty. Putting the Liberty Movement in a position to capitalize on the paradigm shift and promote decentralization.

One of us is right but none of this has to do with Republicans.

[undergroundrr]

Patriotic (Hamiltonian) Nationalist

I try and fail to make the mental leap every time you use this formulation. Hamiltonianism is the foundation of the deep state. Patriotism is subjective and you can apply it to whatever you want. But if you find the deep state unpatriotic, you probably want to reassess what Alexander Hamilton represents in American (and world) history.

But yes, Steve Bannon is indubitably Hamiltonian and, compatibly, Keynesian.

[EBounding]

834878137112662016

[H. E. Panqui]

gumba waves pom-poms and cheers: "(Establishment) Republicans hate Bannon. Where did you get the idea I'm a Republican?"

:rolleyes:

...oh yeah, i forgot...ALL OF THE DEMOCRATS SUCK, BUT ONLY 'THE ESTABLISHMENT' REPUBLICANS SUCK :rolleyes:...MANY OF THE REST OF THE REPUBLICANS ARE ON 'OUR' :rolleyes: SIDE RIGHT?!...which reminds me, you haven't named your stinking 'liberty movement' yet...pray tell, from which party do these 'liberty :rolleyes: movement' politicians hail?...your silence is deafening...

'You disagree with me because you see Bannon as a Goldman Stoogie who is co-opting the Liberty Movement.' (gumba)

:rolleyes:

...AGAIN, THERE IS NO HONEST 'LIBERTY MOVEMENT'...YOUR STINKING 'LIBERTY MOVEMENT' REPUBLICANS [admit it] WON'T EVEN HONESTLY BRING UP THE ROOT$ OF THE ROT...private bankster control/privilege, warmongerism, secrecy, etc..obviously bannon's/trump's puny stinking 'liberty movement' rhetoric satisfies you, but i've heard it all before and it sucks bigly...ugh!...

[Ender]

I try and fail to make the mental leap every time you use this formulation. Hamiltonianism is the foundation of the deep state. Patriotism is subjective and you can apply it to whatever you want. But if you find the deep state unpatriotic, you probably want to reassess what Alexander Hamilton represents in American (and world) history.

But yes, Steve Bannon is indubitably Hamiltonian and, compatibly, Keynesian.

^^THIS^^

Beat me to it. ;)

[Gumba of Liberty]

I try and fail to make the mental leap every time you use this formulation. Hamiltonianism is the foundation of the deep state. Patriotism is subjective and you can apply it to whatever you want. But if you find the deep state unpatriotic, you probably want to reassess what Alexander Hamilton represents in American (and world) history.

But yes, Steve Bannon is indubitably Hamiltonian and, compatibly, Keynesian.

A Hamiltonian, like a Jeffersonian, is an individual influenced by the writings and words of these men. Hamilton, the man, was a closet globalist BUT his writings were textbook Nationalist. (Jefferson had slaves but that had nothing to do with Jeffersonianism) Look at the Federalist Papers and his "American System". The American System consisted of three parts:

1. National Bank (Not controlled by globalists)
2. Protective Tariffs
3. Internal Improvements (Infrastructure Projects)

This is textbook Bannon. Just because Hamilton was a Globalist British agent does not mean that all those influenced by Hamilton are in the same camp. I believe that Bannon is an honest Hamiltonian mixed with some Jacksonian strongman tactics for the purpose of smashing the Deep State. Turns out Trump is a fan of Jackson as well. He put a Portrait of him in the Oval Office.

As I have said many times. I would rather fight Hamiltonians one-on-one after we work together to defeat the Wilsonian Globalists. The Wilsonian's who gave us:

The FBI
The BLM and Conservation EO's
Income Tax
The Fed
Technocratic Elitism
The Espionage and Sedition Acts
Prohibition
"Make the World Safe for Standard Oil"
Etc.

One enemy at a time. The Globalist are far more of a threat to us (and the world) than a nationalist. Devolve power to the national level and the localists and Indivdualists will take care of the rest.

At least the ones brave enough to leave their computers and speak (with respect) to patriotic Americans who disagree.

[TheCount]

But yes, Steve Bannon is indubitably Hamiltonian and, compatibly, Keynesian.Worse than that, actually. A Keynesian in the traditional sense should identify the current period as a time of growth and excess during which the government should reduce spending, pay down debts, and stockpile reserves. I'm not sure, frankly, what the term would be for a person who advocates endless, expansive government spending.

They seem to agree that the first word of their ideology should be National... there may be some argument about the second word of the term.

[H. E. Panqui]

....ugh...'the globalists' :rolleyes:....ugh...'the deep state'....ugh....sounds like you've picked up a lot of stinking republican-radio rhetoric...ugh...

...'let's all join gumba's stinking 'liberty' :rolleyes: republicans to defeat the [liberal democrat] 'globalists' :rolleyes:...ugh...

...[man i can't wait to see/hear gumba's apologies when trump deliver$ his reagani$h illion-'dollar' 'liberty' :rolleyes: budget]....

[undergroundrr]

One enemy at a time. The Globalist are far more of a threat to us (and the world) than a nationalist. Devolve power to the national level and the localists and Indivdualists will take care of the rest.

A Wilsonian and Hamiltonian are not at odds.

Even if your centralized national government on steroids should by some lucky stroke turn out to be somewhat better in some respects than your imagined global government, it doesn't matter. Any centralized national power is ripe for the taking by globalists when the next globalism-friendly president takes office. But you go ahead and pretend that trump and Bannon will reside over a 1000-year reich.

There is no liberty upside to Hamiltonian centralization of power. You assume that solely because of difference of scale, nationalism is better than globalism. Nationalism feeds globalism. It just wraps a county into a nice tidy package to be subsumed. And the stronger the military that trump builds, the more invincible this global government will be once it takes it over. International bankers have a stronger foothold in this administration than they've ever had before. Your idea of giving them more power is insane on the face of it.

[Gumba of Liberty]

gumba waves pom-poms and cheers: "(Establishment) Republicans hate Bannon. Where did you get the idea I'm a Republican?"

:rolleyes:

...oh yeah, i forgot...ALL OF THE DEMOCRATS SUCK, BUT ONLY 'THE ESTABLISHMENT' REPUBLICANS SUCK :rolleyes:...MANY OF THE REST OF THE REPUBLICANS ARE ON 'OUR' :rolleyes: SIDE RIGHT?!...which reminds me, you haven't named your stinking 'liberty movement' yet...pray tell, from which party do these 'liberty :rolleyes: movement' politicians hail?...your silence is deafening...

'You disagree with me because you see Bannon as a Goldman Stoogie who is co-opting the Liberty Movement.' (gumba)

:rolleyes:

...AGAIN, THERE IS NO HONEST 'LIBERTY MOVEMENT'...YOUR STINKING 'LIBERTY MOVEMENT' REPUBLICANS [admit it] WON'T EVEN HONESTLY BRING UP THE ROOT$ OF THE ROT...private bankster control/privilege, warmongerism, secrecy, etc..obviously bannon's/trump's puny stinking 'liberty movement' rhetoric satisfies you, but i've heard it all before and it sucks bigly...ugh!...

Justin Amash, Thomas Massie, Brat and Rand come to mind but, to me, the Liberty Movement is about the people. If you want freedom at the State or local level, it's time to elect state or local Nationalists (Go California!!!!). You want people who take sovereignty seriously and refuse to capitulate to the globalists. I know many liberty activists at the local level who are working their butts off in the pursuit of liberty. They are the Liberty Movement.

Keyword being Movement. Typing will not suffice.

[CPUd]

Justin Amash, Thomas Massie, Brat and Rand come to mind but, to me, the Liberty Movement is about the people. If you want freedom at the State or local level, it's time to elect state or local Nationalists (Go California!!!!). You want people who take sovereignty seriously and refuse to capitulate to the globalists. I know many liberty activists at the local level who are working their butts off in the pursuit of liberty. They are the Liberty Movement.

Keyword being Movement. Typing will not suffice.

The mistake here is casting everything as 'nationalist' versus 'globalist'. It's not always that simple, and as you see here, you are going to get some resistance from people you need in this coalition.

[undergroundrr]

They seem to agree that the first word of their ideology should be National...

This is just psychological. The word "nationalism" is a very un-PC word, so it's very attractive to a certain brand of contrarian to take it on and attempt to nurse it back into the Overton Window.

In practice, national is equivalent to federal. I don't like a national government any more than I like a federal government. Also, witness the attempt to differentiate between a Hamiltonian national bank and the Fed.

It's a lot of distinctions being made where there are none, trying to put lipstick on a pig.

[H. E. Panqui]

gumba shills for republicans bigly: 'Keyword being Movement.'

:rolleyes:

...good god, your republican-cheerleading rhetoric is pathetoric...AGAIN, your stinking republicans are 'moving' in the wrong direction!!...the more your goddamned republican fools 'move' the deeper into the wood$ we are lo$t!!..

...ugh...your poor students...

...hint: ...'yes we can' = 'make america great again' ...but the gd fool republicans believe 'make america great again' > 'yes we can'..[apparently the gd fool republicans are math-challenged] ;)

[Gumba of Liberty]

A Wilsonian and Hamiltonian are not at odds.

Hamiltonianism is a stepping stone to Wilsonianism if you start from a Hamiltonian Country. If you live in a Wilsonian country, Hamiltonism is totally a step in the right direction (back to Jeffersonianism). The Globalists hate Steve Bannon and you guys want to portray him as someone carrying water for the globalist. I'm not buying it without the facts to back it up.


Even if your centralized national government on steroids should by some lucky stroke turn out to be somewhat better in some respects than your imagined global government, it doesn't matter. Any centralized national power is ripe for the taking by globalists when the next globalism-friendly president takes office. But you go ahead and pretend that trump and Bannon will reside over a 1000-year reich.

Because all Nationalists are Hitler.... :rolleyes: give me a break. And please, if you could, articulate for me where I have advocated for an increase in "centralized national power". I would love to hear it. (Hint: All of the power is already there! Brought to you by the Globalists. We need to return this power to the States and the People. Can't do that if your country is controlled by foreigners.)


There is no liberty upside to Hamiltonian centralization of power. You assume that solely because of difference of scale, nationalism is better than globalism. Nationalism feeds globalism. It just wraps a county into a nice tidy package to be subsumed. And the stronger the military that trump builds, the more invincible this global government will be once it takes it over. International bankers have a stronger foothold in this administration than they've ever had before. Your idea of giving them more power is insane on the face of it.

I would love for you to prove that Bankers have more control over Trump than Obama or Bush. This is utter and complete nonsense with zero facts to back it up. Provide some facts if your going to make claims like this.

And again, as I have said many times in this thread, if Trump and Bannon increase military spending (without slashing the general budget and excessive waste at the Pentagon and CIA) I will change my position. I want to see his budget before I pass judgement. Regardless, it will be hard for any nationalist to do as much damage to our foreign policy as the globalist have done over the past 100 years. Trump has said we wants to end the wars. We will see.

[Gumba of Liberty]

The mistake here is casting everything as 'nationalist' versus 'globalist'. It's not always that simple, and as you see here, you are going to get some resistance from people you need in this coalition.

+1

I agree it's not completely black and white but, with that said, I think Bannon (as the nationalist figure in play) is an asset and not a liability. I would be much more afraid of the Trump Adminstration if Bannon was not in his ear. We will see how it plays out.

Overall, the reason I am fiercely defending Bannon is that I'm sick and tired of everyone, including members of RPF, having these incredibly strong options without any evidence or facts to back them up. If we are going to debate, bring your facts and I'll bring mine. Keep your focus but have an open mind. If you provide real tangible evidence that Bannon is a globalist hack, I will be the first to give credit.

The video in the OP is the first time I ever heard Bannon speak. His speech was and is much different than the man portrayed on this site and many others (The Crypt Keeper). Bannon deserves a fair shake like everyone does and like Dr. Paul never got. Don't be the same kind of people that would never listen to Dr. Paul.

[undergroundrr]

Bannon deserves a fair shake like everyone does

Sure. But your subject line was an assertion, not a question. Three of its four words were accurate in my view. You invited pushback, not assessment.

I'm not of the "let's wait until we're in 3 wars and have skyrocketed the debt with military and infrastructure spending before we pass judgement" school.

[LifeLibertyPursuit]

Can we go ahead and destroy all governments

[Gumba of Liberty]

Sure. But your subject line was an assertion, not a question. Three of its four words were accurate in my view. You invited pushback, not assessment.

I'm not of the "let's wait until we're in 3 wars and have skyrocketed the debt with military and infrastructure spending before we pass judgement" school.

If you read the OP, I said Bannon sounded like he was on our side and that I believed he was a Patriot from what I had heard (from him). Then I invited anyone to tell me I'm wrong by quoting something he has said or by producing evidence to past statist transgressions. What I got in return was mostly baseless claims and feelings about the "enemy" Bannon.

Granted, I am worried about Bannon on two fronts: He favors excessive military size & worships the police (Check out Brietbart). I will only give him the benefit of the doubt because I believe that both the Military and Police are "Keys to Power". Trump, and the Nationalists, would have already been ousted from power (if they even would had gotten there) if he was opposed to either the police or military. I believe that Trump will try to take care of the veterans, increase military pay, and provide better benefits but I doubt he will put up with monstrous waste at the Pentagon & security agencies. I doubt he will start wars of aggression and create more Wounded Warriors. I doubt he will create more laws for the police to enforce that violate our Natural Born Rights and might even repeal some Federal Laws. He might even appoint a few more Constitutionalist to the Supreme Court. We will see.

[H. E. Panqui]

gumba limbaughs: 'I would love for you to prove that Bankers have more control over Trump than Obama or Bush. This is utter and complete nonsense with zero facts to back it up. Provide some facts if your going to make claims like this.'

:confused:

...ummmm, gumba, it is rumored that your orange man-crush owe$ some high falutin' bankster$ some hundred$ of million$ of 'dollars'... [...it's hard to tell 'cause your republican man-crush is very $ecret $quirrelish....] ...perhaps you are familiar with the proverb: 'the borrower is $ervant to the lender'...that would make your orange crush a $ervant to ?gold sack$, the bank of china, etc., to the tune of ?what, a half-billion?

...[save your hide, jump ship quickly...i sense your stinking republicans will sink bigly and soon]

[Gumba of Liberty]

gumba limbaughs: 'I would love for you to prove that Bankers have more control over Trump than Obama or Bush. This is utter and complete nonsense with zero facts to back it up. Provide some facts if your going to make claims like this.'

:confused:

...ummmm, gumba, it is rumored that your orange man-crush owe$ some high falutin' bankster$ some hundred$ of million$ of 'dollars'... [...it's hard to tell 'cause your republican man-crush is very $ecret $quirrelish....] ...perhaps you are familiar with the proverb: 'the borrower is $ervant to the lender'...that would make your orange crush a $ervant to ?gold sack$, the bank of china, etc., to the tune of ?what, a half-billion?

...[save your hide, jump ship quickly...i sense your stinking republicans will sink bigly and soon]


So Trump is in hock to Goldman and the Bank of China? Show me your sources, I'll analyze them and get back to you. Otherwise this is just hear say.

I'm sorry you can't see what I see, but Trump, Farage, Le Pen, and the rest of the Nationalists sweeping the West have the wind at their backs. Somehow you see this as a blow to human freedom. I see it as a step in the right direction and an opportunity to devolve power further. No need for name calling. It sounds juvenile and hurts your argument.

[H. E. Panqui]

gumba limbaughs: "So Trump is in hock to Goldman and the Bank of China? Show me your sources, I'll analyze them and get back to you. Otherwise this is just hear say."

:cool:

...gumba, i tried to get you some good information so that you could have some for once [gumba, that hideous, thin republican-radio gruel you consume is franken-food to the mind] but the best i could come up with was 'fake news'...;)

http://www.breitbart.com/news/donald-trumps-empire-at-least-650-million-in-debt/

NEW YORK, Aug. 21 (UPI) — Donald Trump’s U.S. companies are at least $650 million in debt, owing large amounts to the Bank of China and Goldman Sachs, a New York Times investigation has found.
The debt is reportedly twice the amount stated in Trump’s public filings for his presidential campaign. The lenders are also frequent targets of scorn in the real estate mogul’s speeches.
Much of the Republican nominee for president’s business dealings remain a mystery, according to the Times investigation and also call the Federal Election Commission’s financial disclosure form into question.
In the report, Trump partly owns a building in Manhattan that carries a $950 million loan that was partly lent from the Bank of China, a country Trump routinely denounces as a enemy of the United States.
The Times investigation also found three partnerships that supply a great portion of Trump’s wealth, partnerships that currently owe $2 billion. If the loans went into default, Trump might not be personally liable for that debt, but his investments would suffer...."

...gumba, for crissakes, get out of 'teaching!!'...i sense you may be teaching the children 'what to think' and not 'how to think'...hint for gumba: 'how to think' is the better one....and btw, your 'thoughts' certainly don't need to be taught in government schools!!..if the parents/children want to know your 'thoughts' all they have to do is tune in WGOP radio] ;)

[Gumba of Liberty]

gumba limbaughs: "So Trump is in hock to Goldman and the Bank of China? Show me your sources, I'll analyze them and get back to you. Otherwise this is just hear say."

:cool:

...gumba, i tried to get you some good information so that you could have some for once [gumba, that hideous, thin republican-radio gruel you consume is franken-food to the mind] but the best i could come up with was 'fake news'...;)

http://www.breitbart.com/news/donald-trumps-empire-at-least-650-million-in-debt/

NEW YORK, Aug. 21 (UPI) — Donald Trump’s U.S. companies are at least $650 million in debt, owing large amounts to the Bank of China and Goldman Sachs, a New York Times investigation has found.
The debt is reportedly twice the amount stated in Trump’s public filings for his presidential campaign. The lenders are also frequent targets of scorn in the real estate mogul’s speeches.
Much of the Republican nominee for president’s business dealings remain a mystery, according to the Times investigation and also call the Federal Election Commission’s financial disclosure form into question.
In the report, Trump partly owns a building in Manhattan that carries a $950 million loan that was partly lent from the Bank of China, a country Trump routinely denounces as a enemy of the United States.
The Times investigation also found three partnerships that supply a great portion of Trump’s wealth, partnerships that currently owe $2 billion. If the loans went into default, Trump might not be personally liable for that debt, but his investments would suffer...."

Thanks for the link. This is disturbing; you never want a President in massive debt (especially without knowing his assets in full). I will look into this more and get back to you.

Although, regardless of Trump's debts, you are constantly trying and failing to paint me as a Trump Supporter (and talk radio for some strange reason). I support American Patriots fighting for our country. My point is that Bannon sounds and acts like an American Patriot and you have failed to prove otherwise with your nonsensical arguments and name calling. Very crude and childish.


...gumba, for crissakes, get out of 'teaching!!'...i sense you may be teaching the children 'what to think' and not 'how to think'...hint for gumba: 'how to think' is the better one....and btw, your 'thoughts' certainly don't need to be taught in government schools!!..if the parents/children want to know your 'thoughts' all they have to do is tune in WGOP radio] ;)

Just don't. You don't know me or my work. Your lust to win an argument with name calling and character assassination is a new low on your part. Making statements such as this makes me, truly, feel bad for you.

[H. E. Panqui]

gumba asserts: 'Although, regardless of Trump's debts, you are constantly trying and failing to paint me as a Trump Supporter (and talk radio for some strange reason). I support American Patriots fighting for our country. My point is that Bannon sounds and acts like an American Patriot and you have failed to prove otherwise with your nonsensical arguments and name calling. Very crude and childish...Your lust to win an argument with name calling and character assassination is a new low on your part. Making statements such as this makes me, truly, feel bad for you.

:cool:

...you have many of the same talking points as republican-radio propagandists...i would paint you as an 'apologist' for the stinking republican, trump, because of things like this: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?498383-Des-Moines-Register-Editorial-Trump-s-plan-to-save-America-is-based-on-fear/page2

"[Trump] does have all the right enemies. Remember, Individualism > Localism > Nationalism > Globalism. I'll take a nationalist who opposes nation building, the War in Iraq, NATO, WTO, the World Bank, IMF, NAFTA, TPP, wants to negotiate with Russia, etc. over a globalist hack like Hillary, any day. A restoration of national sovereignty is one step closer to individual sovereignty and please remember, both Rothbard and Ron agree that a foreign policy of peace is the most consequential method of shrinking the state and restoring liberty.

In regards to the "Police Worship" from Trump last night (which was by far the worst part of his speech), my only hope, and this is by no means clear or guaranteed, is that Trump is doing to the police what he has done to the military. Trumps says something to the effect of "I love the military, so f*** the Iraq War and let's focus on protecting America". Which is clearly why the Neocons can't stand him (YAY!!!). Maybe, just maybe, with the LEOs Trump is angling to a position like "I love the cops, so f*** the drug war and focus on policing violent crime". I might be completely wrong but at least their is a chance and that's all I can ask for at this point.

Even if I'm completely wrong and he is straight authoritarian, he will never be Hitler without gun confiscation (which he could never pull off). I'd rather have my AR's ready for the Fed induced Crack-Up Boom than Kankles and her gun-control free-s*** army any day.

On a positive note, I'm fully celebrating July 21st, 2016 as the death of the Bush Doctrine and Neoconservativism. This is a great day to be alive guys! I thought these slimy pricks would be in power for much, much longer. Cheers!"

...perhaps you are unaware of your obvious favoritism for the stinking republican party inc. over the stinking democrat party inc..don't feel bad...ime, MANY republicrats, both d and r, appear oblivious to their stupid, irrational, etc., defense of their favorite flavor of goddamned republicrat monster..

...and SURELY, don't feel bad for me...i've been very lucky...feel bad for the children...

...btw, as to your notions about 'patriotism' :rolleyes:...remember, as one wag put it, 'patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel'... ;)

[Gumba of Liberty]

gumba asserts: 'Although, regardless of Trump's debts, you are constantly trying and failing to paint me as a Trump Supporter (and talk radio for some strange reason). I support American Patriots fighting for our country. My point is that Bannon sounds and acts like an American Patriot and you have failed to prove otherwise with your nonsensical arguments and name calling. Very crude and childish...Your lust to win an argument with name calling and character assassination is a new low on your part. Making statements such as this makes me, truly, feel bad for you.

:cool:

...you have many of the same talking points as republican-radio propagandists...i would paint you as an 'apologist' for the stinking republican, trump, because of things like this: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?498383-Des-Moines-Register-Editorial-Trump-s-plan-to-save-America-is-based-on-fear/page2

"[Trump] does have all the right enemies. Remember, Individualism > Localism > Nationalism > Globalism. I'll take a nationalist who opposes nation building, the War in Iraq, NATO, WTO, the World Bank, IMF, NAFTA, TPP, wants to negotiate with Russia, etc. over a globalist hack like Hillary, any day. A restoration of national sovereignty is one step closer to individual sovereignty and please remember, both Rothbard and Ron agree that a foreign policy of peace is the most consequential method of shrinking the state and restoring liberty.

In regards to the "Police Worship" from Trump last night (which was by far the worst part of his speech), my only hope, and this is by no means clear or guaranteed, is that Trump is doing to the police what he has done to the military. Trumps says something to the effect of "I love the military, so f*** the Iraq War and let's focus on protecting America". Which is clearly why the Neocons can't stand him (YAY!!!). Maybe, just maybe, with the LEOs Trump is angling to a position like "I love the cops, so f*** the drug war and focus on policing violent crime". I might be completely wrong but at least their is a chance and that's all I can ask for at this point.

Even if I'm completely wrong and he is straight authoritarian, he will never be Hitler without gun confiscation (which he could never pull off). I'd rather have my AR's ready for the Fed induced Crack-Up Boom than Kankles and her gun-control free-s*** army any day.

On a positive note, I'm fully celebrating July 21st, 2016 as the death of the Bush Doctrine and Neoconservativism. This is a great day to be alive guys! I thought these slimy pricks would be in power for much, much longer. Cheers!"

...perhaps you are unaware of your obvious favoritism for the stinking republican party inc. over the stinking democrat party inc..don't feel bad...ime, MANY republicrats, both d and r, appear oblivious to their stupid, irrational, etc., defense of their favorite flavor of goddamned republicrat monster..

...and SURELY, don't feel bad for me...i've been very lucky...feel bad for the children...

...btw, as to your notions about 'patriotism' :rolleyes:...remember, as one wag put it, 'patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel'... ;)






I stand by my words. In a "Would You Rather" Scenerio, Trump is preferable to Hillary, hands down and it's not even close. Trump just appointed a Constitutionalist (not a Libertarian but I'll take it) to the Supreme Court and instituted a one-in-two-out policy for all Federal Regs. Your hatred for Red Team is clouding your judgement, my young padawan. Much to learn you still have.

[undergroundrr]

I stand by my words. In a "Would You Rather" Scenerio, Trump is preferable to Hillary, hands down and it's not even close.

That seems obvious to you, but I'm not certain we would have had Hillary talking about having one of the biggest military build-ups in history. She would certainly have done her part to feed the MIC and do the bidding of the Deep State. But trump is on overdrive. This administration is frankly adversarial to Iran and China. And despite all the fake news, I don't think trump has Putin in his pocket either. Hillary would have been charting the same war on terror path we've been on forever, but I'm not sure she and her military appointees would have been on this fast a track to put boots on the ground. It's looking highly likely the US will have more (and bigger) enemies in 4 years, not fewer.

For a lesser of two evils, I'll take the welfare-obsessed SJW over the warfare-obsessed neocon any day. Of course, trump has said nothing about addressing the welfare state anyhow, so you might as well consider him a welfare-statist for all practical purposes.

Even regarding capitalism, trump's economic protectionist stances mark him out as MORE of an economic interventionist than Hillary would have likely been. She would have been unlikely to suggest a policy that would make Americans pay 20% more for imported goods.

What is obvious to you isn't obvious to everybody. Both of these people were toxic candidates. So far trump's appointments, his policy steps and his rhetoric have been worse than even I expected. As an aside, even for us homeschoolers, it looks like this administration will be the first to tangle the federal government with homeschooling, something that would have been resisted tooth-and-nail during a Clinton administration but will be cheered on because it's a "conservative" who's doing it.

Unless trump/Bannon massively change direction, things look really awful for those of us who are wary. Hillary was the enemy we knew.

[Gumba of Liberty]

That seems obvious to you, but I'm not certain we would have had Hillary talking about having one of the biggest military build-ups in history. She would certainly have done her part to feed the MIC and do the bidding of the Deep State. But trump is on overdrive. This administration is frankly adversarial to Iran and China. And despite all the fake news, I don't think trump has Putin in his pocket either. Hillary would have been charting the same war on terror path we've been on forever, but I'm not sure she and her military appointees would have been on this fast a track to put boots on the ground. It's looking highly likely the US will have more (and bigger) enemies in 4 years, not fewer.

For a lesser of two evils, I'll take the welfare-obsessed SJW over the warfare-obsessed neocon any day. Of course, trump has said nothing about addressing the welfare state anyhow, so you might as well consider him a welfare-statist for all practical purposes.

Even regarding capitalism, trump's economic protectionist stances mark him out as MORE of an economic interventionist than Hillary would have likely been. She would have been unlikely to suggest a policy that would make Americans pay 20% more for imported goods.

What is obvious to you isn't obvious to everybody. Both of these people were toxic candidates. So far trump's appointments, his policy steps and his rhetoric have been worse than even I expected. As an aside, even for us homeschoolers, it looks like this administration will be the first to tangle the federal government with homeschooling, something that would have been resisted tooth-and-nail during a Clinton administration but will be cheered on because it's a "conservative" who's doing it.

Unless trump/Bannon massively change direction, things look really awful for those of us who are wary. Hillary was the enemy we knew.

We will see. One thing that is known is that Trump is not a Neocon. The Neocons are the Nevertrumpers. I never intended to defend Trump but facts are facts.

[nikcers]

facts are facts.

Welcome to Cat Facts! Did you know that the first cat show was held in 1871 at the Crystal Palace in London? Mee-wow!

[Gumba of Liberty]

Welcome to Cat Facts! Did you know that the first cat show was held in 1871 at the Crystal Palace in London? Mee-wow!

On that note, I'm going to Costa Rica in the morning (Thank you). I appreciate the debate and relish in the fact that the silent (Internet) majority loves a good fight. It's been fun!

[H. E. Panqui]

:D

[H. E. Panqui]

On that note, I'm going to Costa Rica in the morning (Thank you). I appreciate the debate and relish in the fact that the silent (Internet) majority loves a good fight. It's been fun!

;)

...don't worry...you've left so many of your republicrat droppings that i'll be having some fun 'cleaning up' for some time...i eagerly await your return to 'the competition of ideas about government'...hopefully you'll be free from republican talk-radio and your head will clear....do yourself a favor and use any spare time familiarizing yourself with some math, logic, monetary realism, non-republican-radio history/philosophy/etc..

[...psssst, sane readers, it appears costa rica may also be a 'last refuge' for some republicrats...] :D

[Gumba of Liberty]

;)

...don't worry...you've left so many of your republicrat droppings that i'll be having some fun 'cleaning up' for some time...i eagerly await your return to 'the competition of ideas about government'...hopefully you'll be free from republican talk-radio and your head will clear....do yourself a favor and use any spare time familiarizing yourself with some math, logic, monetary realism, non-republican-radio history/philosophy/etc..

[...psssst, sane readers, it appears costa rica may also be a 'last refuge' for some republicrats...] :D

Translation:
"Don't debate with the facts, that's for suckers. Just call the other side insane and claims the moral high ground." - H.E. Panqui/Stalin/CNN

[H. E. Panqui]

...bienvenido de vuelta, gumba!!...

...ha aprendido algo?...

[Gumba of Liberty]

...bienvenido de vuelta, gumba!!...

...ha aprendido algo?...

Exactly

[H. E. Panqui]

...ugh...republican trump chumps say 'give him a chance, maybe he's good'...:rolleyes:...and if hillary was in, democrat chumps would be saying, 'give her a chance, maybe she's good'...:rolleyes:

...ugh, what naive foolishness!!..anyone not a naive republicrat fool understands that 'the [rotten/poisonou$] fruit' yielded by the stinking republicans and democrats is LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG-STANDING!!!...THEY ARE PERENNIALLY DISEASED AND ROTTEN TO THE CORE....

...sorry gumba, but your goddamned miserable republican puppets have always been abominable....they don't deserve 'the benefit of the doubt'...they are going to have to show me something WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than that stinking pap uttered by your republican blowhard, bannon!...ugh...

[H. E. Panqui]

gumba asserts: 'I stand by my words. In a "Would You Rather" Scenerio, Trump is preferable to Hillary, hands down and it's not even close.'


:cool:

...i live in an area where i constantly hear democrat cheerleaders with fervor in their voices and a crazed look in their eyes assert, essentially, 'I STAND BY MY WORDS. IN A "WOULD YOU RATHER" SCENARIO, HILLARY IS PREFERABLE TO TRUMP, HANDS DOWN AND IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE.'

...all these pathetic republicans and democrats offer is crazy fervor...pathetic rhetoric..big swollen fat heads who, in an honest competition of ideas about government, would EASILY be exposed like toto did to the wizard!...[hint: ..that's why your goddamned republicans and the democrats NEVER engage in any honest 'competitions of ideas about government,' gumba!] ;)

[Gumba of Liberty]

gumba asserts: 'I stand by my words. In a "Would You Rather" Scenerio, Trump is preferable to Hillary, hands down and it's not even close.'


:cool:

...i live in an area where i constantly hear democrat cheerleaders with fervor in their voices and a crazed look in their eyes assert, essentially, 'I STAND BY MY WORDS. IN A "WOULD YOU RATHER" SCENARIO, HILLARY IS PREFERABLE TO TRUMP, HANDS DOWN AND IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE.'

...all these pathetic republicans and democrats offer is crazy fervor...pathetic rhetoric..big swollen fat heads who, in an honest competition of ideas about government, would EASILY be exposed like toto did to the wizard!...[hint: ..that's why your goddamned republicans and the democrats NEVER engage in any honest 'competitions of ideas about government,' gumba!] ;)

Clinton is owned by the CIA...

Trump is at war with the CIA...

One of those is better than the other.

[H. E. Panqui]

Clinton is owned by the CIA...

Trump is at war with the CIA...

One of those is better than the other.

:confused:

...did you hear that on WGOP radio? :confused:...sounds to me like 'the cia' loves him!...and why wouldn't they?...he frequently sucks their arse: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-cia-speech-transcript/

"PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, I want to thank everybody. Very, very special people. And it is true, this is my first stop, officially. We’re not talking about the balls, or we’re not talking about even the speeches -- although they did treat me nicely on that speech yesterday. (Laughter.) I always call them the dishonest media, but they treated me nicely. (Laughter.) But I want to say that there is nobody that feels stronger about the intelligence community and the CIA than Donald Trump. There’s nobody. (Applause.)
The wall behind me is very, very special. We’ve been touring for quite a while, and I’ll tell you what -- 29? I can’t believe it.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Twenty-eight.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Oh, 28. We got to reduce it. That’s amazing. And we really appreciate what you’ve done in terms of showing us something very special. And your whole group, these are really special, amazing people. Very, very few people could do the job you people do. And I want to just let you know, I am so behind you. And I know maybe sometimes you haven’t gotten the backing that you’ve wanted, and you’re going to get so much backing. Maybe you’re going to say, please don’t give us so much backing. (Laughter.) Mr. President, please, we don’t need that much backing. (Laughter.) But you’re going to have that. And I think everybody in this room knows it.
You know, the military and the law enforcement, generally speaking, but all of it -- but the military gave us tremendous percentages of votes. We were unbelievably successful in the election with getting the vote of the military. And probably almost everybody in this room voted for me, but I will not ask you to raise your hands if you did. (Laughter.) But I would guarantee a big portion, because we’re all on the same wavelength, folks. (Applause.) We’re all on the same wavelength, right? He knows. It took Brian about 30 seconds to figure that one out, right, because we know we’re on the same wavelength.
But we’re going to do great things. We’re going to do great things.... I just wanted to really say that I love you, I respect you. There’s nobody I respect more. You’re going to do a fantastic job. And we’re going to start winning again, and you’re going to be leading the charge.
So thank you all very much. (Applause.) Thank you -- you’re beautiful. Thank you all very much. Have a good time. I’ll be back. I’ll be back. Thank you."

[Gumba of Liberty]

:confused:

...did you hear that on WGOP radio? :confused:...sounds to me like 'the cia' loves him!...and why wouldn't they?...he frequently sucks their arse: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-cia-speech-transcript/

"PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, I want to thank everybody. Very, very special people. And it is true, this is my first stop, officially. We’re not talking about the balls, or we’re not talking about even the speeches -- although they did treat me nicely on that speech yesterday. (Laughter.) I always call them the dishonest media, but they treated me nicely. (Laughter.) But I want to say that there is nobody that feels stronger about the intelligence community and the CIA than Donald Trump. There’s nobody. (Applause.)
The wall behind me is very, very special. We’ve been touring for quite a while, and I’ll tell you what -- 29? I can’t believe it.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Twenty-eight.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Oh, 28. We got to reduce it. That’s amazing. And we really appreciate what you’ve done in terms of showing us something very special. And your whole group, these are really special, amazing people. Very, very few people could do the job you people do. And I want to just let you know, I am so behind you. And I know maybe sometimes you haven’t gotten the backing that you’ve wanted, and you’re going to get so much backing. Maybe you’re going to say, please don’t give us so much backing. (Laughter.) Mr. President, please, we don’t need that much backing. (Laughter.) But you’re going to have that. And I think everybody in this room knows it.
You know, the military and the law enforcement, generally speaking, but all of it -- but the military gave us tremendous percentages of votes. We were unbelievably successful in the election with getting the vote of the military. And probably almost everybody in this room voted for me, but I will not ask you to raise your hands if you did. (Laughter.) But I would guarantee a big portion, because we’re all on the same wavelength, folks. (Applause.) We’re all on the same wavelength, right? He knows. It took Brian about 30 seconds to figure that one out, right, because we know we’re on the same wavelength.
But we’re going to do great things. We’re going to do great things.... I just wanted to really say that I love you, I respect you. There’s nobody I respect more. You’re going to do a fantastic job. And we’re going to start winning again, and you’re going to be leading the charge.
So thank you all very much. (Applause.) Thank you -- you’re beautiful. Thank you all very much. Have a good time. I’ll be back. I’ll be back. Thank you."

You're joking, right? You do realize that the CIA/Miliatry Industrial Complex is the biggest threat to Trump's Presidency, hence the Military Men that surround Trump, and that it makes complete sense to give a reconciliatory speech at Langley to calm the opposition and let the Patriots (yes there are a few) at the CIA know that Trump is not their enemy. It was a nice gesture but I'm afraid Trump might have underestimated his opposition.

You, on the other hand, take everything at face value. Hook, line and sinker.

[TheCount]

You do realize that the CIA/Miliatry Industrial Complex is the biggest threat to Trump's PresidencyThat explains his plan to dramatically increase their budget.

[MallsRGood]

That explains his plan to dramatically increase their budget.

And preserve their authority to spy on, indefinitely detain, and/or torture us all without due process.

Fight the power!

[H. E. Panqui]

gumba keeps digging: You, on the other hand, take everything at face value. Hook, line and sinker.

:rolleyes:

...lol!... this from some republican-radio parrot who cheerleads for some bizarre orange dude who said parrot 'knows' from reality teevee!...what a sucker!...your poor students!...

[helmuth_hubener]

Half of the ways that the nationalists wish to 'defeat' globalism involve the loss of liberty.

I do not understand. Are you suddenly concerned with liberty now? Part of your new, changed persona? Did you hope no one would notice?

Your entire tenure here, you have devoted yourself to ceaselessly mocking and belittling the ideas of liberty, sometimes humorously, and always attempting to be humorous.

Now, the last year and a half, and especially the last several months, you have completely changed gears. You now are "totally on your side, guys, honest! I love liberty!" ORLY? And you're Deadly Serious and Somber about the Grave Threat facing our nation's liberty. All satire and lightness is out the window. Because you now care sooooo much about (coincidentally!) all the things you think we care about! It's a miracle! An RPF success story. Amazing. What a conversion.

You've just found something/someone you despise even more than those "silly, naive libertarians."

And that's fine.

But let's just have no illusions about what's going on here. Z-Juan, our local banking fraud advocate and illegal immigrant, has also Seen The Light and is saying the word "liberty" a lot and quoting Ron Paul at every opportunity. Next he'll be telling us he was a true blue Ron Paul Revolutionary, marching, sign-waving, caucusing, and donating thousands to the cause. Maybe you will, too! I can appreciate the cleverness. Just know that not everyone is so easily fooled. Try to keep your shenanigans at a low simmer and I'll probably leave you alone (mostly).

[TheCount]

I do not understand. Are you suddenly concerned with liberty now? Part of your new, changed persona? Did you hope no one would notice?

Your entire tenure here, you have devoted yourself to ceaselessly mocking and belittling the ideas of liberty, sometimes humorously, and always attempting to be humorous.

Obviously, whatever NorthCarolinaLiberty has is contagious.

Could you provide some links to my mocking of the ideas of liberty? Since it was ceaseless, that should be a simple task.



Edit: Oh, also, if you could address the point rather than lobbing bags of shit, that would be more beneficial to adult conversation.

[undergroundrr]

Are you suddenly concerned with liberty now? Part of your new, changed persona?...
Z-Juan, our local banking fraud advocate and illegal immigrant

LOL, here we go Calling Out The Shills™. Option G) again.

EVEN IF all these "anti-liberty" folks who trumpies are so anxious to smear advocated EVERY PLANK of the DNC platform, they STILL wouldn't exceed the anti-liberty-ness of those who are so anxious for trumpBannon to "take action" with all of their military pumping, stimulus (aka deficit) spending, civil liberty destroying, surveillance stating, wealth redistributing, Israel firsting, baby killing, stealth taxing, etc.

[helmuth_hubener]

There are *ACTUAL* liberty people on both sides of the Trump question, undergroundrr. I understand you are a strong partisan on one side of it, and yes, TheCount is on that same side, but beyond that you have little to nothing in common, politically. You are an actual liberty person. TheCount is a liberty person, too. TheCount PRB is, well, TheCount PRB. Always has been.

Edit: My mistake! It was PRB who I was remembering as the joke-filled one who's no particular friend of liberty.

[Son_of_Liberty90]

There are *ACTUAL* liberty people on both sides of the Trump question, undergroundrr. I understand you are a strong partisan on one side of it, and yes, TheCount is on that same side, but beyond that you have little to nothing in common, politically. You are an actual liberty person. TheCount is, well, TheCount. Always has been.

Hey HH can you clear space in your inbox I need to ask you something!

[helmuth_hubener]

Hey HH can you clear space in your inbox I need to ask you something!

Arrgh, it fills up so fast! Should be good now.

[helmuth_hubener]

Could you provide some links to my mocking of the ideas of liberty? Since it was ceaseless, that should be a simple task.
Here's a link to a post that your request for links brought to mind: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?456305-Creating-a-Free-Town-or-County&p=5601677&viewfull=1#post5601677

Here's a link to a post actually from you: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?453023-Free-Banking&p=5555395&viewfull=1#post5555395
As you'll notice, it is not mocking. At all.

It turns out I have been conflating you with PRB in my mind. If you remember PRB, I think you will agree that my characterization of him as "mocking of the ideas of liberty" would be pretty fair.

My apologies!


Edit: Oh, also, if you could address the point... I don't particularly disagree with the point, actually. I just thought it was ridiculous for PRB to be making it.

[TheCount]

Here's a link to a post actually from you: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?453023-Free-Banking&p=5555395&viewfull=1#post5555395
As you'll notice, it is not mocking. At all.Oh, I can definitely be sarcastic. I get a little aggravated on banking topics because there's just so much misinformation and misunderstanding as to how the systems actually work. Some people take me explaining the system as support for the system, but rather it's that in order to fix something you have to understand how it works.



It turns out I have been conflating you with PRB in my mind. If you remember PRB, I think you will agree that my characterization of him as "mocking of the ideas of liberty" would be pretty fair.I've always thought of PRB as just being intentionally antagonistic and saying things to get a rise out of people. I never saw a consistent ideology from him one way or the other.

[helmuth_hubener]

Oh, I can definitely be sarcastic. No, I wasn't being sarcastic there! I do not take that post as mocking at all. It's totally reason and logic based. I was unable to find any post of you mocking liberty anywhere. That was my point. I did remember you from that thread way back when, but incorrectly remembered you as mocking (and as you can see, PRB is right there mixed in there with you as well).


I get a little aggravated on banking topics because there's just so much misinformation and misunderstanding as to how the systems actually work. Some people take me explaining the system as support for the system, but rather it's that in order to fix something you have to understand how it works. Absolutely; I was just trying (unsuccessfully) to explain it, too, in that thread.


I've always thought of PRB as just being intentionally antagonistic and saying things to get a rise out of people. I never saw a consistent ideology from him one way or the other. Right, he was just a jokester.

[Ender]

Oh, I can definitely be sarcastic. I get a little aggravated on banking topics because there's just so much misinformation and misunderstanding as to how the systems actually work. Some people take me explaining the system as support for the system, but rather it's that in order to fix something you have to understand how it works.


I've always thought of PRB as just being intentionally antagonistic and saying things to get a rise out of people. I never saw a consistent ideology from him one way or the other.

You are DEFINITELY sarcastic and that's what I like best about your posts. ;)

And people definitely do not understand the banking system- can be very frustrating when trying to explain it to others.

[Gumba of Liberty]

LOL, here we go Calling Out The Shills™. Option G) again.

EVEN IF all these "anti-liberty" folks who trumpies are so anxious to smear advocated EVERY PLANK of the DNC platform, they STILL wouldn't exceed the anti-liberty-ness of those who are so anxious for trumpBannon to "take action" with all of their military pumping, stimulus (aka deficit) spending, civil liberty destroying, surveillance stating, wealth redistributing, Israel firsting, baby killing, stealth taxing, etc.

Are any of these polices new for the Anglo-American Empire? No. Is Bannon advocating deficit spending, the CIA/NSA surveillance state, wealth distribution, baby killing, or increasing taxes? No. Is Bannon a supporter of bolstering the US Military (even increasing the DoD by bleeding other, unconstitutional, cabinets dry)? Yes. Is Bannon trying to destroy civil liberty and sell the United States out to Israel? Prove it. I would love to see your sources.

Your post smacks of hubris. Pony up buttercup.

[Ender]

Are any of these polices new for the Anglo-American Empire? No. Is Bannon advocating deficit spending, the CIA/NSA surveillance state, wealth distribution, baby killing, or increasing taxes? No. Is Bannon a supporter of bolstering the US Military (even increasing the DoD by bleeding other, unconstitutional, cabinets dry)? Yes. Is Bannon trying to destroy civil liberty and sell the United States out to Israel? Prove it. I would love to see your sources.

Your post smacks of hubris. Pony up buttercup.


YOU pony up:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?508448-Race-For-Raqqa-Major-US-Escalation-In-Syria&p=6431186#post6431186

Double dare ya. ;)

[Gumba of Liberty]

YOU pony up:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?508448-Race-For-Raqqa-Major-US-Escalation-In-Syria&p=6431186#post6431186

Double dare ya. ;)

You mean the U.S. Military is engaging CIA sponsored And created ISIS? That would make sense if Trump was actually trying to defeat ISIS. Unlike Bush and Obama who used Al Queda and ISIS as perpetual boogiemen. If Trump defeats ISIS there is zero reason for the defense budget.

[Ender]

You mean the U.S. Military is engaging CIA sponsored And created ISIS? That would make sense if Trump was actually trying to defeat ISIS. Unlike Bush and Obama who used Al Queda and ISIS as perpetual boogieman. If Trump defeats ISIS there is zero reason for the defense budget. That's important.

Obviously you did NOT watch the vid.

Try again.

[Gumba of Liberty]

Obviously you did NOT watch the vid.

Try again.

Bannon is a former Naval Officer. Mattis, Kelly, McMaster are all hardline Military. If you pay attention, Trump has surrounded himself with fierce defenders of the U.S. Military.

The same jealousies exist today between the Military and the CIA as existed between the Wehrmacht and the SS in 1944-45. Something tells me you have never heard of the July 20th Plot. Spoiler alert, there were good guys and they weren't the SS.

[Ender]

Bannon is a former Naval Officer. Mattis, Kelly, McMaster are all hardline Military. If you pay attention, Trump has surrounded himself with fierce defenders of the U.S. Military.

The same jealousies exist today between the Military and the CIA as existed between the Wehrmacht and the SS in 1944-45. Something tells me you have never heard of the July 20th Plot. Spoiler alert, there were good guys and they weren't the SS.

:rolleyes:

Lotta excuses for not watching RON PAUL's opinion on the Syria strikes.

[undergroundrr]

Bannon is a former Naval Officer. Mattis, Kelly, McMaster are all hardline Military. If you pay attention, Trump has surrounded himself with fierce defenders of the U.S. Military.

The same jealousies exist today between the Military and the CIA as existed between the Wehrmacht and the SS in 1944-45. Something tells me you have never heard of the July 20th Plot. Spoiler alert, there were good guys and they weren't the SS.

Gumba, you might want to watch this video - http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?508448-Race-For-Raqqa-Major-US-Escalation-In-Syria&p=6430951&viewfull=1#post6430951

Also, check here (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?508481-U-S-Drone-Strikes-Have-Gone-Up-432-Since-Trump-Took-Office) for an update.

[Gumba of Liberty]

:rolleyes:

Lotta excuses for not watching RON PAUL's opinion on the Syria strikes.

If Trump is arming CIA-backed rebels in opposition to the Assad Regime then he is no better than the Neocons and he is a stooge for Israel. If Trump is sending US troops to work with the Assad Regime (Russia, and Iran) that makes complete sense. That was a campaign pledge. Trump never proclaimed to be a noninterventionist.

It's simple really. We will see who Trump is in the next few weeks. If Trump is for real, he will finish off ISIS before Cinco de Mayo, declare victory, negotiate peace with Assad, Russia & Iran, and remove all US troops. If Trump is a neocon globalist we will be stuck in the Middle East for 4 more years. We won't have to wait long to find out but don't pretend like you know for sure how this thing plays out.

P.S. I liked the video. I have more optimism than Dr. Paul but I understand his point of view. The idea of arming CIA/Mossad/Saudi trained rebels is distributing but like I said it's too early to call.

[H. E. Panqui]

gumba promises: "This [alleged indebtedness of trump to foreign banksters to the tune of $650 million] is disturbing; you never want a President in massive debt (especially without knowing his assets in full). I will look into this more and get back to you."​


...have you looked into this yet, gumba?...[one wonders what, given the $ame financial circum$tance$, republican cheerleaders would be saying about a democrat president as $hady and indebted as the orange man-crush]... ;)

[Gumba of Liberty]

gumba promises: "This [alleged indebtedness of trump to foreign banksters to the tune of $650 million] is disturbing; you never want a President in massive debt (especially without knowing his assets in full). I will look into this more and get back to you."​


...have you looked into this yet, gumba?...[one wonders what, given the $ame financial circum$tance$, republican cheerleaders would be saying about a democrat president as $hady and indebted as the orange man-crush]... ;)

Yeah, it's impossible to know how a $650 million debt impacts Trump's entities without knowing the interest rates on the debt, the value of businesses, and the lenders. It could be shady or it could be that Trump is like most Americans and lives way beyond his means by riding economic bubbles. I never said Trump was an Austrian.

Back to the Deep State War that is happening as we speak: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-10/conflict-within-deep-state-just-broke-open-warfare

[undergroundrr]

If Trump is arming CIA-backed rebels in opposition to the Assad Regime then he is no better than the Neocons and he is a stooge for Israel.

Tillerson has already sent up a recommendation to send arms to Saudi Arabia, ostensibly to bomb the ____ out of Yemen. If the White House signs onto it, your question is answered.

[H. E. Panqui]

Yeah, it's impossible to know how a $650 million debt impacts Trump's entities without knowing the interest rates on the debt, the value of businesses, and the lenders. It could be shady or it could be that Trump is like most Americans and lives way beyond his means by riding economic bubbles. I never said Trump was an Austrian.

Back to the Deep State War that is happening as we speak: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-10/conflict-within-deep-state-just-broke-open-warfare

:rolleyes:

...now be honest gumba, what would you and your republican-radio mentors say if the 'foe was on the other shoot' and some democrat 'dumba of liberty' was vomiting, "Yeah, it's impossible to know how a $650 million debt impacts [hillary's] entities without knowing the interest rates on the debt, the value of businesses, and the lenders. It could be shady or it could be that [hillary] is like most Americans and lives way beyond her means by riding economic bubbles..

...btw, 'the deep state' is just another goddamned fool republicrat distraction...your stinking 'deep state' operates below 'the bank$ter $tate'..so until your orange fool and the rest of them focus on the root$ i'll KNOW they are ALL stinking puppet$/fool$...AT BEST...

[Gumba of Liberty]

:rolleyes:

...now be honest gumba, what would you and your republican-radio mentors say if the 'foe was on the other shoot' and some democrat 'dumba of liberty' was vomiting, "Yeah, it's impossible to know how a $650 million debt impacts [hillary's] entities without knowing the interest rates on the debt, the value of businesses, and the lenders. It could be shady or it could be that [hillary] is like most Americans and lives way beyond her means by riding economic bubbles..

...btw, 'the deep state' is just another goddamned fool republicrat distraction...your stinking 'deep state' operates below 'the bank$ter $tate'..so until your orange fool and the rest of them focus on the root$ i'll KNOW they are ALL stinking puppet$/fool$...AT BEST...

You are making the accusation that there is something nefarious about Trump being in debt. Prove it. All I stated is that, while I don't like it, I can see it from the perpective that maybe, just maybe, Trump is running his businesses like a businessman. Call me a conspiracy theorist.

Your point about the Deep State is complete nonsense. We have an entire thread dedicated to Judge Napolitano speaking out against the Deep State. Is Judge Napolitano a "republicrat"? What about Julain Assange? I'm the one making this up? Your delusional (or a paid shill).

[nikcers]

Your delusional (or a paid shill).
You've convinced me, I am orange pilled, can you go orange pill other forums? Judge Nepalitano has been doing his dillegence to get his message out about the deepstate, its a lot easier to go with the tide then against it.

[H. E. Panqui]

'You are making the accusation that there is something nefarious about Trump being in debt.' (dumba)

:cool:

...no, dumba...i was merely trying to point out to you that the stinking words you used to defend trump are pathetic!..admit it, gumba...if some democrat shill used the same words you used to defend a democrat scumbag, you republican shills, radio parrots, etc., would be squawking loudly...admit it, gumba!...

...and quit digging!..your poor government-school students!...

[undergroundrr]

Your delusional (or a paid shill).

You just said goodbye to any credibility. Congratulations.

[Gumba of Liberty]

You just said goodbye to any credibility. Congratulations.

Believing that the Deep State is fiction is delusional.

The truth hurts sometimes but that doesn't make it any less true.

[Gumba of Liberty]

'You are making the accusation that there is something nefarious about Trump being in debt.' (dumba)

:cool:

...no, dumba...i was merely trying to point out to you that the stinking words you used to defend trump are pathetic!..admit it, gumba...if some democrat shill used the same words you used to defend a democrat scumbag, you republican shills, radio parrots, etc., would be squawking loudly...admit it, gumba!...

...and quit digging!..your poor government-school students!...

If someone is in debt, or owns a company in debt, should that preclude him or her from political office?

I don't think so but the details of the loans should definitely be released.

Its my suspicion that the reason Trump refuses to open his books is that Trump has a lot less money that he lets on and by keeping his books closed he is protecting his "brand".

Or he could be a Russian Spy. Either one.

[nikcers]

If someone is in debt, or owns a company in debt, should that preclude him or her from political office?

I don't think so but the details of the loans should definitely be released.

Its my suspicion that the reason Trump refuses to open his books is that Trump has a lot less money that he lets on and by keeping his books closed he is protecting his "brand".

Or he could be a Russian Spy. Either one.
Or he could be a neocon

“You have an expansionist Islam and you have an expansionist China. Right? They are motivated. They’re arrogant. They’re on the march. And they think the Judeo-Christian west is on the retreat,”“Some of these situations may get a little unpleasant. But you know what, we’re in a war. We’re clearly going into, I think, a major shooting war in the Middle East again.” “The one thing the Chinese fear more than America … they fear Christianity more than anything,”-Steve Bannon

Does this sound like a man who understands blowback? Does this sound like something Ron Paul would say?

[Gumba of Liberty]

Or he could be a neocon

Does this sound like a man who understands blowback? Does this sound like something Ron Paul would say?

Finally a quote! Thank you good sir for doing your homework. It only took 8 pages but I knew I'd get one out of you.

In regards to Bannon, I disagree with his foreign policy but, even with the China/Islam bashing, calling him a Neocon is a stretch at best. A Neocon is not just an interventionist. The Neoconservative Movement is a real thing with an (Trotskyite) ideology, founding members, and news organs (The Weekly Standard and company). They hate Trump. I wouldn't have started this thread if the Necons were in Trumps corner. Their hatred for him in the election was so obvious. #nevertrumpers

[undergroundrr]

Believing that the Deep State is fiction is delusional.

The truth hurts sometimes but that doesn't make it any less true.

I said nothing about the Deep State. You discredited yourself with an unwise ad hominem that proves that the jury isn't out for you at all. You've exposed yourself as a committed trumpie whose course is firmly charted. Your convictions will have to shift with the wind to keep defending your beloved idol.

When you call somebody a shill who is critical of trump (or Bannon), you are calling Ron Paul a shill. When you call somebody a shill who is dubious of trump's (or Bannon's) anti-establishment credentials, you are calling Ron Paul a shill. When you call somebody a shill who calls for people to abandon the illusion of a difference between the major political parties, you are calling Ron Paul a shill. You should watch your mouth.

[Gumba of Liberty]

I said nothing about the Deep State. You discredited yourself with an unwise ad hominem that proves that the jury isn't out for you at all. You've exposed yourself as a committed trumpie whose course is firmly charted. Your convictions will have to shift with the wind to keep defending your beloved idol.

When you call somebody a shill who is critical of trump (or Bannon), you are calling Ron Paul a shill. When you call somebody a shill who is dubious of trump's (or Bannon's) anti-establishment credentials, you are calling Ron Paul a shill. When you call somebody a shill who calls for people to abandon the illusion of a difference between the major political parties, you are calling Ron Paul a shill. You should watch your mouth.

Wow, someone's getting a little bit upset. Let me see if I get this straight. If I call someone EITHER delusional OR a shill for believing that the Deep State is fictional then, by extension, I called Dr. Paul a shill? When has Dr. Paul ever said that the Deep State was an illusion and that anyone who speaks about it is a "republicrat"?

Sorry, you going to have to stand on your own two legs on this one. Hiding behind Dr. Paul and making it as if I'm attacking him by debating you (or your buddies) won't work.

[nikcers]

Wow, someone's getting a little bit upset. Let me see if I get this straight. If I call someone EITHER delusional OR a shill for believing that the Deep State is fictional then, by extension, I called Dr. Paul a shill? When has Dr. Paul ever said that the Deep State was an illusion and that anyone who speaks about it is a "republicrat"?

Sorry, you going to have to stand on your own two legs on this one. Hiding behind Dr. Paul and making it as if I'm attacking him by debating you (or your buddies) won't work.
So let me get this straight, you say 2+2 = 4, but that's impossible since there is no way 2+3 could equal 4. So therefore your argument is false based on your math being wrong. I'm not misrepresenting the argument you made, you made an argument that is false.

[undergroundrr]

Wow, someone's getting a little bit upset. Let me see if I get this straight. If I call someone EITHER delusional OR a shill for believing that the Deep State is fictional then, by extension, I called Dr. Paul a shill? When has Dr. Paul ever said that the Deep State was an illusion and that anyone who speaks about it is a "republicrat"?

Sorry, you going to have to stand on your own two legs on this one. Hiding behind Dr. Paul and making it as if I'm attacking him by debating you (or your buddies) won't work.

No, he's been decrying republicats in a lot of posts having nothing to do with the Deep State.

I'd be glad to address trump's anti-Deep State cred with you. But before I get presumptuous, what's your definition of the Deep State? Please be precise to distinguish yourself from your cohorts who define it like they do other things - Deep State (n): something against trump that trump is against. Your answer will determine whether or not your conception of the Deep State is fictional. I highly suspect it is.

[Gumba of Liberty]

No, he's been decrying republicats in a lot of posts having nothing to do with the Deep State.

I'd be glad to address trump's anti-Deep State cred with you. But before I get presumptuous, what's your definition of the Deep State? Please be precise to distinguish yourself from your cohorts who define it like they do other things - Deep State (n): something against trump that trump is against. Your answer will determine whether or not your conception of the Deep State is fictional. I highly suspect it is.

The Deep State are the minions of Euopean Banking Families that came to dominate Wall Street, post-Civil War. The Deep State was created in stages. Stage One Wilsonian Progressive Era: The Fed, IRS, Direct Election of Senators (Control the States & the Money). Stage 2 Truman & the Military Industrial Complex: CIA, NSA, NATO, NASA, Network News (Control the Firepower & The Narrative) Stage 3 The Bushs & War on Terror: Cable News, Department of Homeland Security (Control the World).

Most people in the Deep State do not know that the U.S. Government has been hijacked by European Bankers (Call it the Anti-American Revolution/The Empires Strike Back) and is being used as a tool of Global Domination. Since the Deep State has a top-down pyramid structure (like the Military) everything is done on a need-to-know basis. There are a select few at the top who understand what is going on. These men are either blackmailed (pedophiles/sex parties/ drug abuse) or willing to participate in schemes to dominate mankind for the benefit of themselves and their bloodlines by kneeling to the Banking Mafia.

Trump is "New Money" to these people. How dare he hijack their Puppet Machine called the Presidency.

[undergroundrr]

The Deep State are the minions of Euopean Banking Families that came to dominate Wall Street, post-Civil War. The Deep State was created in stages. Stage One Wilsonian Progressive Era: The Fed, IRS, Direct Election of Senators (Control the States & the Money). Stage 2 Truman & the Military Industrial Complex: CIA, NSA, NATO, NASA, Network News (Control the Firepower & The Narrative) Stage 3 The Bushs & War on Terror: Cable News, Department of Homeland Security (Control the World).

You left out silicon valley, big energy (inc. Koch bros), National Association of Manufacturers and other important Wall Street forces that have been integrated into the Deep State.


Most people in the Deep State do not know that the U.S. Government has been hijacked by European Bankers (Call it the Anti-American Revolution/The Empires Strike Back) and is being used as a tool of Global Domination. Since the Deep State has a top-down pyramid structure (like the Military) everything is done on a need-to-know basis. There are a select few at the top who understand what is going on. These men are either blackmailed (pedophiles/sex parties/ drug abuse) or willing to participate in schemes to dominate mankind for the benefit of themselves and their bloodlines by kneeling to the Banking Mafia. Trump is "New Money" to these people. How dare he hijack their Puppet Machine called the Presidency.

You lost me there. Yeah, this would be really cool in a comic book, but it's a failed attempt to try to put some kind of unified, sinister structure on a phenomenon that doesn't have any set structure. The Deep State is versatile and changes configuration with each power shift. New players enter and leave constantly. If anything, the Deep State is, like everything else in government, a bunch of conflicting special interests (all statists) that form and dissolve coalitions as conditions change. Some of the Deep State was against Obama, some (much of it the same) is against trump. Judge actually wrote about their dissatisfaction with Hillary Clinton too - http://www.judgenap.com/post/lessons-from-the-deep-state

trump's Treasury Secretary is Skull and Bones Goldman Sachs. Sachs has infiltrated every corner of his administration. Big oil (the major force responsible for the CIA Mossadeq operation, the grand overture to the CIA's epic reign) now heads the State Department. THESE WERE TRUMP'S PICKS!!!

H.E. Panqui is correct. The Deep State as you describe it does not exist. It's much bigger and much less organized than that. Judge's definition is much broader than yours and doesn't presume a Hydra-like monolith - "the unseen government within the government that does not change with elections." Yes, elements of it will try to manipulate trump, and I leave open the (slight) possibility that some elements of the Deep State are uncomfortable with his supposedly independent origins. And since he took both sides of every single issue, he said something to piss everybody off at some point. But can a guy who gave SO MUCH MONEY exclusively to the the political darlings of the Deep State (neocons like McCain, McConnell and the worst coterie of progressives) really be an outsider?

Judge thinks Flynn was booted by the Deep State. Well, probably partly. But regardless, he was ridiculously sloppy for somebody who calls himself a spy.

trump plays into the hands of the Deep State to a greater extent than even Obama did. trump is an unqualified success to the MIC at large. His hyper-interventionist approach to the Middle East and his obsession with controlling their oil is the bee's knees. So far, he seems to have caused the CIA to throw a couple minor sparks. But don't forget, trump's first choice for CIA director was Woolsey, Bill Clinton's top man at the CIA. And the CIA was a major force in Clinton's victory in 1992.

H. E. Panqui is also correct that the nastiest elements of the Deep State have to have the Federal Reserve at full operating capacity. The Federal Reserve is absolutely the linchpin of the Deep State. With trump's brazen and forceful installation of big Fed beneficiaries and proxies throughout the Executive Branch, it's cinched up.

[Gumba of Liberty]

You left out silicon valley, big energy (inc. Koch bros), National Association of Manufacturers and other important Wall Street forces that have been integrated into the Deep State.



You lost me there. Yeah, this would be really cool in a comic book, but it's a failed attempt to try to put some kind of unified, sinister structure on a phenomenon that doesn't have any set structure. The Deep State is versatile and changes configuration with each power shift. New players enter and leave constantly. If anything, the Deep State is, like everything else in government, a bunch of conflicting special interests (all statists) that form and dissolve coalitions as conditions change. Some of the Deep State was against Obama, some (much of it the same) is against trump. Judge actually wrote about their dissatisfaction with Hillary Clinton too - http://www.judgenap.com/post/lessons-from-the-deep-state

trump's Treasury Secretary is Skull and Bones Goldman Sachs. Sachs has infiltrated every corner of his administration. Big oil (the major force responsible for the CIA Mossadeq operation, the grand overture to the CIA's epic reign) now heads the State Department. THESE WERE TRUMP'S PICKS!!!

H.E. Panqui is correct. The Deep State as you describe it does not exist. It's much bigger and much less organized than that. Judge's definition is much broader than yours and doesn't presume a Hydra-like monolith - "the unseen government within the government that does not change with elections." Yes, elements of it will try to manipulate trump, and I leave open the (slight) possibility that some elements of the Deep State are uncomfortable with his supposedly independent origins. And since he took both sides of every single issue, he said something to piss everybody off at some point. But can a guy who gave SO MUCH MONEY exclusively to the the political darlings of the Deep State (neocons like McCain, McConnell and the worst coterie of progressives) really be an outsider?

Judge thinks Flynn was booted by the Deep State. Well, probably partly. But regardless, he was ridiculously sloppy for somebody who calls himself a spy.

trump plays into the hands of the Deep State to a greater extent than even Obama did. trump is an unqualified success to the MIC at large. His hyper-interventionist approach to the Middle East and his obsession with controlling their oil is the bee's knees. So far, he seems to have caused the CIA to throw a couple minor sparks. But don't forget, trump's first choice for CIA director was Woolsey, Bill Clinton's top man at the CIA. And the CIA was a major force in Clinton's victory in 1992.

H. E. Panqui is also correct that the nastiest elements of the Deep State have to have the Federal Reserve at full operating capacity. The Federal Reserve is absolutely the linchpin of the Deep State. With trump's brazen and forceful installation of big Fed beneficiaries and proxies throughout the Executive Branch, it's cinched up.

No comic book necessary. The narrative I put before you is documented. I recommend the following:

1. Tragedy and Hope
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/094500110X/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489278823&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=tradegy+and+hope
2. The Creature from Jekyl Island
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/091298645X/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489278864&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=the+creature+from+jekyll+island
3. Confessions of an Economic Hitman
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0452287081/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1489278898&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=confessions+of+an+economic+hitman+by+john +perkins
4. Wall Street, Banks and Foreign Policy by Murray Rothbard
https://mises.org/library/wall-street-banks-and-american-foreign-policy-0

Truth is stranger than fiction.

[undergroundrr]

No comic book necessary. The narrative I put before you is documented. I recommend the following:

1. Tragedy and Hope
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/094500110X/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489278823&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=tradegy+and+hope
2. The Creature from Jekyl Island
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/091298645X/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489278864&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=the+creature+from+jekyll+island
3. Confessions of an Economic Hitman
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0452287081/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1489278898&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=confessions+of+an+economic+hitman+by+john +perkins
4. Wall Street, Banks and Foreign Policy by Murray Rothbard
https://mises.org/library/wall-street-banks-and-american-foreign-policy-0

Truth is stranger than fiction.


I don't know the Perkins or Rothbard, but the other two don't support your thesis. In fact, Griffin solidly supports the view of H.E. Panqui and me.

The history of how the Deep State developed is interesting, but it doesn't really tell you what it is today. The concept of a guy or a handful of guys at the top of an ever-expanding pyramid made sense in 1913, or even 1953, but it's absurd today after the advent of the internet, the proliferation of communications technology and the shifts in wealth and power that have resulted. There are various centers of power trying to capture different parts of the apparatus, sometimes in agreement with one another, sometimes at odds.

The person who goes directly after the Fed and by extension its offshoots the CIA and the MIC is the person who will tear it all down. trump and Bannon have not shown any intent to do anything about that.

[Ender]

I don't know the Perkins or Rothbard, but the other two don't support your thesis. In fact, Griffin solidly supports the view of H.E. Panqui and me.

The history of how the Deep State developed is interesting, but it doesn't really tell you what it is today. The concept of a guy or a handful of guys at the top of an ever-expanding pyramid made sense in 1913, or even 1953, but it's absurd today after the advent of the internet, the proliferation of communications technology and the shifts in wealth and power that have resulted. There are various centers of power trying to capture different parts of the apparatus, sometimes in agreement with one another, sometimes at odds.

The person who goes directly after the Fed and by extension its offshoots the CIA and the MIC is the person who will tear it all down. trump and Bannon have not shown any intent to do anything about that.

Confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins, is essential; everyone on the forum should make this a must-read priority.

[Gumba of Liberty]

I don't know the Perkins or Rothbard, but the other two don't support your thesis. In fact, Griffin solidly supports the view of H.E. Panqui and me.

The history of how the Deep State developed is interesting, but it doesn't really tell you what it is today. The concept of a guy or a handful of guys at the top of an ever-expanding pyramid made sense in 1913, or even 1953, but it's absurd today after the advent of the internet, the proliferation of communications technology and the shifts in wealth and power that have resulted. There are various centers of power trying to capture different parts of the apparatus, sometimes in agreement with one another, sometimes at odds.

The person who goes directly after the Fed and by extension its offshoots the CIA and the MIC is the person who will tear it all down. trump and Bannon have not shown any intent to do anything about that.

You are correct that the Deep State has many more front organizations and keys to power than it used to but it is still dominated by the Wall Street Paper Money/Debt Cartel. The nexus of Banking Families and Industrialists (who got in on the Money Racket) own the U.S. Government. The families don't always agree but the truth is that the Warburgs, Schiffs, Morgans, Rockefellers, Vanderbilts, Rothchilds, Goldmans, Sachs, etc. control the money. They pull the puppet strings and place loyal vassals (puppets, way outside there paygrade, with heavy dirt for blackmail) at the primary organs of the Deep State. BTW I forgot a few: In addition to the core players in the US: Fed, CIA, NSA, NATO, Cable News, New York Times, Washington Post. There are many Deep State entities around the world: UN, EU,Trilateral Commission, CFR, Bilderberg Group, Davos, Bank of International Settlements, Bohemien Grove, etc.

All of these entities are controlled by the Money Trust. The Banking Families put there family members and the obedient in positions to control and maintain their family empires. The most trusted vassals are rewarded with marriage into the family.

Hence the treatment Dr. Paul got when he tried to take away their piggy bank.

To your point on Bannon (and Trump). We will see what they do now that #DeepStategate has been exposed. We won't have to wait long to see which side they are on.

[H. E. Panqui]

To your point on Bannon (and Trump). We will see what they do now that #DeepStategate has been exposed. We won't have to wait long to see which side they are on.

:cool:

...gumba, any honest, intellectually-curious citizen (granted, they are somewhat rare and apparently none operate in your close circle) knows that the stinking, rotten, insane, etc., monetary order (the linchpin of your 'deep-state' and EVERY other 'state') under which we are en$laved and abu$ed/tortured/etc. is loooooooooooooong-standing...it has been evident to the more aware and intelligent among us for decades, centuries...

...that your OBVIOUS miserable, goddamned fool puppet/or worse, trump, and his underling$ have NEVER, to my knowledge, uttered an intelligent criticism of/proposal to remedy this abomination in their 60-70 years on the planet...well...pardon me for sneering at you in disgust, but it's obvious to anyone not a naive fool, republican-radio-brainwashed zombie, government-school teacher ;), etc. assorted republicrat chucklehead, 'which $ide they are on'.. :rolleyes:...good grief, gumba!..

[liveandletlive]

Apparently Congressman Steve King is also out promoting Steve Bannon's favorite book, The Camp of the Saints.

Why dont these boys just stick to the classics? Mein Kampf!

[Superfluous Man]

Apparently Congressman Steve King is also out promoting Steve Bannon's favorite book, The Camp of the Saints.

Why dont these boys just stick to the classics? Mein Kampf!

Steve King: American Patriot.

[H. E. Panqui]

gumba works the pom-poms: The Neoconservative Movement is a real thing with an (Trotskyite) ideology, founding members, and news organs (The Weekly Standard and company). They hate Trump. I wouldn't have started this thread if the Necons were in Trumps corner. Their hatred for him in the election was so obvious. #nevertrumpers

:rolleyes:

[in my best gomer pyle imitation:..."goooolly!..the neoconservatives are bad and they hate trump...so trump must be good...gooooolly...the establishment is bad and they hate trump...so trump must be good...gooooolly...the media is bad and they hate trump...so trump must be good...goooolly....the liberals are bad and they hate trump...so trump must be good...goooooolly"...] :rolleyes:

[Gumba of Liberty]

:cool:

...gumba, any honest, intellectually-curious citizen (granted, they are somewhat rare and apparently none operate in your close circle) knows that the stinking, rotten, insane, etc., monetary order (the linchpin of your 'deep-state' and EVERY other 'state') under which we are en$laved and abu$ed/tortured/etc. is loooooooooooooong-standing...it has been evident to the more aware and intelligent among us for decades, centuries...

...that your OBVIOUS miserable, goddamned fool puppet/or worse, trump, and his underling$ have NEVER, to my knowledge, uttered an intelligent criticism of/proposal to remedy this abomination in their 60-70 years on the planet...well...pardon me for sneering at you in disgust, but it's obvious to anyone not a naive fool, republican-radio-brainwashed zombie, government-school teacher ;), etc. assorted republicrat chucklehead, 'which $ide they are on'.. :rolleyes:...good grief, gumba!..

Sounds like a lot of opinion backed up by nothing. Trump has spoken out against the Monetary (Dis)Order even if he's no Austrian:


"Bringing back the gold standard would be very hard to do, but boy would it be wonderful. We'd have a standard on which to base our money." - Donald J Trump GQ 2016


In some ways, I like the gold standard and there is something very nice about it but you have to go back at the right time... We used to have a very solid country because it was based on a gold standard for it. We do not have that anymore. There is something very nice about the concept of that. It would be very hard to do at this point and one of the problems is we do not have the gold. Other places have the gold." - Donald J. Trump with WMUR-TV, New Hampshire, in a segment called ‘Conversation with the Candidate’, published on March 31, 2015

[Gumba of Liberty]

Apparently Congressman Steve King is also out promoting Steve Bannon's favorite book, The Camp of the Saints.

Why dont these boys just stick to the classics? Mein Kampf!

It takes breathtaking intellect and wit to compare your political foes to Hitler. +1 for originality

[Gumba of Liberty]

gumba works the pom-poms: The Neoconservative Movement is a real thing with an (Trotskyite) ideology, founding members, and news organs (The Weekly Standard and company). They hate Trump. I wouldn't have started this thread if the Necons were in Trumps corner. Their hatred for him in the election was so obvious. #nevertrumpers

:rolleyes:

[in my best gomer pyle imitation:..."goooolly!..the neoconservatives are bad and they hate trump...so trump must be good...gooooolly...the establishment is bad and they hate trump...so trump must be good...gooooolly...the media is bad and they hate trump...so trump must be good...goooolly....the liberals are bad and they hate trump...so trump must be good...goooooolly"...] :rolleyes:

Turning a complex issue into nonsense, once again, but at least you admit my point, finally. The Neocons hate Trump & Bannon. Neocons = Perpetual War. The enemy of my enemy (perpetual war) is my friend. Especially when they are both dead set on ripping each other to pieces.

P.S. "Knocking out" CIA trained and funded ISIS is not perpetual war. Trump/Bannon are not non-interventionists BUT they are also not crazed Neocons dead set on starting WWIII.