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View Full Version : War with Iran would really bring Russia and China in as well?




John F Kennedy III
02-04-2017, 04:15 PM
I keep seeing people around the internet say war with Iran would also bring Russia and China into the war as our enemies. Is there any truth to this?

nikcers
02-04-2017, 04:27 PM
I keep seeing people around the internet say war with Iran would also bring Russia and China into the war as our enemies. Is there any truth to this?
That's what the leaked government intelligence tells us. Its what the government wants us to think. There's a nice ring to it right, if we all collectively believe it to be true, will it become truth? If you accuse someone of being a criminal and punish them for being a criminal no matter how they act, does it become morally questionable to become criminal so you can at least reap the rewards?

John F Kennedy III
02-04-2017, 06:06 PM
Thanks.

timosman
02-04-2017, 06:12 PM
That's what the leaked government intelligence tells us. Its what the government wants us to think. There's a nice ring to it right, if we all collectively believe it to be true, will it become truth? If you accuse someone of being a criminal and punish them for being a criminal no matter how they act, does it become morally questionable to become criminal so you can at least reap the rewards?

WARNING: Neocon spin. ^^^^

goldenequity
02-04-2017, 07:26 PM
The 'other' possibility is simply leverage on 'deal making'.
Does communicating a 'threat' give you leverage?

and of course, you have to justify the threat against Iran
as a 'righteous response' to some 'perceived' wrongdoing...
It's what bullies, blackmailers and extortionists depend on.

timosman
02-04-2017, 07:29 PM
The 'other' possibility is simply leverage on 'deal making'.
Does communicating a 'threat' give you leverage?

and of course, you have to justify the threat against Iran
as a 'righteous response' to some 'perceived' wrongdoing...
It's what bullies, blackmailers and extortionists depend on.

At least we know who we are dealing with. Better than the last guy.

P3ter_Griffin
02-04-2017, 07:36 PM
Don't know the accuracy of this but I saw it opined that if Syria and Ukraine were settled Russia wouldn't defend Iran. But until that is the case they would in necessity of having an ally to help settle Syria and Ukraine.

goldenequity
02-04-2017, 08:15 PM
The 'other' possibility is simply leverage on 'deal making'.
Does communicating a 'threat' give you leverage?

and of course, you have to justify the threat against Iran
as a 'righteous response' to some 'perceived' wrongdoing...
It's what bullies, blackmailers and extortionists depend on.

The Int'l Spectator ‏@spectatorindex 2h
USA: Responding to Bill O'Reilly saying Putin is a 'killer', Trump says 'we have a lot of killers, you think our country is so innocent?'
https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/828037791430742016

That was posted 2 hrs ago... sounds a little Mafiaesque no?
ha... maybe the 'Don' Trump is the Episcopal Right wing version of the cold blooded liberal Catholic Godfather eh?

timosman
02-04-2017, 08:19 PM
The Int'l Spectator ‏@spectatorindex 2h
USA: Responding to Bill O'Reilly saying Putin is a 'killer', Trump says 'we have a lot of killers, you think our country is so innocent?'
https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/828037791430742016

That was posted 2 hrs ago... sounds a little Mafiaesque no?
ha... maybe the 'Don' Trump is the Episcopal Right wing version of the cold blooded liberal Catholic Godfather eh?

One can hope.:cool:

P3ter_Griffin
02-04-2017, 08:30 PM
As provacative as they have been towards China this early, personally, I don't think China would risk being put into the 'and then they came for us and no one was left to help' situation. I think if there was any question to the matter the rhetoric so far has squelched it.

goldenequity
02-04-2017, 08:34 PM
but wait..... THERE'S MORE! :)

The Int'l Spectator
►USA: Responding to Bill O'Reilly saying Putin is a 'killer', Trump says 'we have a lot of killers, you think our country is so innocent?'
https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/828037791430742016

@realDonaldTrump
When a country is no longer able to say who can, and who cannot , come in & out, especially for reasons of safety &.security - big trouble!



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3ryYWjVUAANriA.jpg:small

The Int'l Spectator
ARCHIVE: Steve Bannon suggested in interview with Trump in 2015 that there were too many Asians in Silicon Valley.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3XVByMUYAAhcIe.jpg


I was 'marveling' at the sheer speed
at which the 'administration' has been aggressively tackling their MAGA 'agenda'...
almost frightening....
yeah.. frightening... that's the word....

and I'm saying that like it's a 'good thing'???
somethin ain't right.
I kin feel it.

This Corbett Report pretty much nails it. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?507229-How-Trump-drained-the-swamp)

nikcers
02-04-2017, 11:43 PM
WARNING: Neocon spin. ^^^^ Not really trying to spin anything the official narrative that the government has not refuted or censored is that war with Iran would mean war with Russia. Therefore this is what the government wants us to think. Supposedly China Russia and Pakistan and like North Korea are part of a security treaty to counterbalance NATO.

The argument against this seems to be that its possible the people we made the Iran deal with are installed by Westerners. The argument is that its possible Russia does not like the regime NATO put in Iran and that's why they never joined their version of NATO.

I think its possible that in fear they might flip though, and Trump might be just testing the waters to see, or he might push them over the edge and into the arms of the anti NATO group. There are a few countries right now that are rumored to be flipping. I would wager that is why the UN ambassador under Trump said would be taking names.

AngryCanadian
02-05-2017, 12:11 AM
Neocons spin that Putin is a Killer because one of their beloved Agents died yet and they have no evidence to prove that Putin killed that agents.

timosman
02-05-2017, 12:54 AM
Not really trying to spin anything the official narrative that the government has not refuted or censored is that war with Iran would mean war with Russia. Therefore this is what the government wants us to think. Supposedly China Russia and Pakistan and like North Korea are part of a security treaty to counterbalance NATO.

The argument against this seems to be that its possible the people we made the Iran deal with are installed by Westerners. The argument is that its possible Russia does not like the regime NATO put in Iran and that's why they never joined their version of NATO.

I think its possible that in fear they might flip though, and Trump might be just testing the waters to see, or he might push them over the edge and into the arms of the anti NATO group. There are a few countries right now that are rumored to be flipping. I would wager that is why the UN ambassador under Trump said would be taking names.

Are you for real?:rolleyes:

69360
02-05-2017, 08:17 AM
There isn't going to be a war with Iran. Trump is a fucking idiot, ignore him.

nikcers
02-05-2017, 11:34 AM
There isn't going to be a war with Iran. Trump is a $#@!ing idiot, ignore him. Trump supporters have been telling me that for a year now. I don't think that war with Iran is even a question of how but when. They put Iran on notice in the first week and tried to get out of the Iran deal so that we wouldn't be on the hook to defend Iran if they got attacked. Right now the only thing stopping us is the Iran agreement and Trump is doing everything he can so he can rip it to shreds.

Ender
02-05-2017, 12:40 PM
Trump supporters have been telling me that for a year now. I don't think that war with Iran is even a question of how but when. They put Iran on notice in the first week and tried to get out of the Iran deal so that we wouldn't be on the hook to defend Iran if they got attacked. Right now the only thing stopping us is the Iran agreement and Trump is doing everything he can so he can rip it to shreds.

We've been after Iran for 60+ years. The Iran Agreement was one of the things right that Obama actually did- can't have that, now, can we?

nikcers
02-05-2017, 12:44 PM
We've been after Iran for 60+ years. The Iran Agreement was one of the things right that Obama actually did- can't have that, now, can we? Some people say the Iran agreement was the motivation behind Trump running, the reason why he became a Republican.

Ender
02-05-2017, 01:05 PM
Some people say the Iran agreement was the motivation behind Trump running, the reason why he became a Republican.

Hmmmm..... that would mean he is definitely owned by TPTB.

pcosmar
02-05-2017, 01:09 PM
I keep seeing people around the internet say war with Iran would also bring Russia and China into the war as our enemies. Is there any truth to this?
Depends on which side we are on.

Attacking Iran is quite stupid,, on any level.

Ender
02-05-2017, 01:11 PM
Depends on which side we are on.

Attacking Iran is quite stupid,, on any level.

1000% agree.

69360
02-05-2017, 01:19 PM
Some people say the Iran agreement was the motivation behind Trump running, the reason why he became a Republican.

Please, Trump doesn't care about Iran. Trump cares about Trump. If threatening war with Iran gets him attention then he insults and threatens Iran.

There will never be a war with Iran, it's all political theater.

nikcers
02-05-2017, 01:23 PM
Please, Trump doesn't care about Iran. Trump cares about Trump. If threatening war with Iran gets him attention then he insults and threatens Iran.

There will never be a war with Iran, it's all political theater.
Iran nuke deal drove Trump to run for president, son says (http://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-nuke-deal-drove-trump-to-run-for-president-son-says/)www.timesofisrael.com › Israel & the Region

69360
02-05-2017, 01:27 PM
Iran nuke deal drove Trump to run for president, son says (http://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-nuke-deal-drove-trump-to-run-for-president-son-says/)www.timesofisrael.com › Israel & the Region



Again, it's all theater. An act, a popularity contest. Our president is an attention whore. If pretending to hate muslims and mexicans gets him attention he does it. Trump doesn't give a shit about anyone but Trump. His childish responses to any criticism and endless self promotion are proof of that.

nikcers
02-05-2017, 01:32 PM
Again, it's all theater. An act, a popularity contest. Our president is an attention whore. If pretending to hate muslims and mexicans gets him attention he does it. Trump doesn't give a $#@! about anyone but Trump. His childish responses to any criticism and endless self promotion are proof of that. Just like before he was president when he criticized Ron Paul for not even thinking in terms of Israel and told his Tweeted and went on MSM and said that if Ron Paul wins the Iowa primaries then they lose all of their credibility? What do you think Trump meant when he said he would run third party if Ron Paul was the republican nominee?

Why do you think the people who ran this attack ad against Rand Paul backed Trump instead of Clinton if Trump isn't their puppet?
TV Ads Financed With Secret Money Attack Paul On Day 1 (http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/04/08/398224643/tv-ads-financed-with-secret-money-attack-paul-on-day-1-of-presidential-bid) FSPA said it's spending $1 million to air the ad in the first four states
Donald Trump: 'Rand Paul should not be on this stage' - CNN Video (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=6&ved=0ahUKEwjH8dqD2fnRAhVCyWMKHfZoCtkQtwIIMjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2Fvideos%2Fpolitics%2 F2015%2F09%2F16%2Fgop-debate-cnn-debate-8p-3.cnn&usg=AFQjCNFR2ShwmME4PNDk0OZtcONEquFUng&bvm=bv.146094739,d.cGc)

pcosmar
02-05-2017, 01:37 PM
Again, it's all theater. An act, a popularity contest. Our president is an attention whore. If pretending to hate muslims and mexicans gets him attention he does it. Trump doesn't give a $#@! about anyone but Trump. His childish responses to any criticism and endless self promotion are proof of that.
You may be correct in that.. but we have been at war with Iran for over 60 yrs. mostly by proxy.

and what he may do on a whim is concerning,, from an observational position.

69360
02-05-2017, 01:44 PM
You may be correct in that.. but we have been at war with Iran for over 60 yrs. mostly by proxy.

and what he may do on a whim is concerning,, from an observational position.

They will continue the proxy war of course. I'm saying there will never be hot war with Iran.

pcosmar
02-05-2017, 02:16 PM
They will continue the proxy war of course. I'm saying there will never be hot war with Iran.

I don't Know that. I would hope not,, but some seem to desire exactly that and are in position to provoke it.

Extreme Stupidity is always possible. Look at history.

pcosmar
02-05-2017, 02:23 PM
At least we know who we are dealing with. Better than the last guy.

Do "we" ?

P3ter_Griffin
02-05-2017, 02:28 PM
They will continue the proxy war of course. I'm saying there will never be hot war with Iran.

A few things to note IMO: They (US) uploaded a 10 year old video purporting it to be intel gained from the Yemen raid to show (don't remember the exact words) 'what these (radical Islamist) are all about'. They tell the public that Iran is a supporter/funder of radical Islamic terrorism. They say Iran is responsible for the shooting of a Saudi ship shot by Yemen's, and then go park a warship by Yemen. They are trying to sell the public on war with Iran, and they are positioning themselves in a way to blame the opening of hostilities on Iran.

John F Kennedy III
02-05-2017, 02:30 PM
Depends on which side we are on.

Attacking Iran is quite stupid,, on any level.

Agreed.

timosman
02-05-2017, 02:51 PM
Do "we" ?

Is there a joke about a pocket mouse coming?

goldenequity
02-05-2017, 02:58 PM
Launch to detonation,
Tehran to Tel Aviv
or
Tel Aviv to Tehran
is
7 minutes. :D
roughly enough time for a quick smoke.

69360
02-05-2017, 03:38 PM
A few things to note IMO: They (US) uploaded a 10 year old video purporting it to be intel gained from the Yemen raid to show (don't remember the exact words) 'what these (radical Islamist) are all about'. They tell the public that Iran is a supporter/funder of radical Islamic terrorism. They say Iran is responsible for the shooting of a Saudi ship shot by Yemen's, and then go park a warship by Yemen. They are trying to sell the public on war with Iran, and they are positioning themselves in a way to blame the opening of hostilities on Iran.

You can't sell the American public on another middle east war. They wouldn't even accept war in Syria from Obama.

Iran supports Hamas. But in some ways it could be justified. What the Israelis do to the Palestinians is wrong. Gaza is the largest prison camp in the world.

None of that has anything to do with America and Americans shouldn't die over it.

seapilot
02-05-2017, 03:42 PM
I do not think Russia would directly defend Iran if it was foolishly attacked. They do not have much to gain by protecting them(they are already oil rich) and too much too lose with US nukes. They probably would covertly sell them weapons. China on the other hand gets a lot of oil from Iran so that is more gray. After Obama deal with Iran China benefited more for oil by the sanctions being lifted. Do they need oil from Iran to survive, no they have other sources to get by if it was cut off.


China has been diversifying the sources of its crude oil imports in recent years as a result of robust oil demand growth and recent geopolitical uncertainties. Saudi Arabia continues to be the largest supplier of crude oil to China and in 2013 provided 19% of China's 5.6 million barrels per day. Because production levels from Iran, Libya, and Sudan and South Sudan dropped since 2011, China replaced the lost shares of crude oil and other liquids imports from these countries with imports from Oman, Iraq, the United Arab Emirates, Angola, Venezuela, and Russia.http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=15531

China might posture because it wants to show it is not a pushover to US military. My opinion is there is not going to be a hot war, it would be bad for the US. This is all theater tough talk. Like Reagan did with the Soviet Union. The whole thing feels like the world is running out of boogie men for the MIC so they have to concentrate on Iran. Democrats wanted Russia boogieman if Hillary won, so Trump trades Russia for Iran boogieman.

nikcers
02-05-2017, 04:06 PM
I do not think Russia would directly defend Iran if it was foolishly attacked. They do not have much to gain by protecting them(they are already oil rich) and too much too lose with US nukes.. This is the deal, since Iraq is gone, Iran is buy one get one free. Russia has everything to do with defending Iran because if we control Iran then we control the price of oil. If we sell it at a loss like ISIS has been doing then Russia loses too. Its the primary reason why Russia is in Syria. Other then the fact the Iran invited Russia to be there. Russia is the only thing that kept Iran's economy going during the multi lateral sanctions. That's why they are getting all of the nuke material the Iran makes.

seapilot
02-05-2017, 04:25 PM
This is the deal, since Iraq is gone, Iran is buy one get one free. Russia has everything to do with defending Iran because if we control Iran then we control the price of oil. If we sell it at a loss like ISIS has been doing then Russia loses too. Its the primary reason why Russia is in Syria. Other then the fact the Iran invited Russia to be there. Russia is the only thing that kept Iran's economy going during the multi lateral sanctions. That's why they are getting all of the nuke material the Iran makes.

I thought a reason Russia was in Syria because they have a Navy base there (gives them access to The Mediterranean) and Assad asked for their help. On the flip side China gets oil from Russia. Without Iranian oil China would have to get more oil from Russia as would Europe too.



Iranian crude oil and lease condensate purchases. Iran's crude oil and condensate exports averaged 1.4 million b/d in 2014. In 2011, prior to sanctions, Iran exported 2.6 million b/d, most of which went to Asia, particularly China (550,000 b/d), India (320,000 b/d), Japan (315,000 b/d), and South Korea (250,000 b/d).
The EU was the second-largest regional buyer of Iranian oil in 2011, purchasing nearly 600,000 b/d of crude oil and condensate. Turkey (185,000 b/d), South Africa (75,000 b/d), and the United Arab Emirates (95,000 b/d) were also significant buyers.
In 2012, as the United States and the EU imposed sanctions, almost all of Iran's buyers either reduced their purchases or halted them. By 2013, Iran's crude oil and condensate exports dropped to just below 1.3 million b/d, with the main importers being China, India, Japan, South Korea, Turkey, UAE, and Syria. Iran's exports grew by almost 150,000 b/d in 2014, reflecting increased imports by China and India.http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=21792


Who benefits from Sanctions? Saudia Arabia and other oil producers (less oil on the market) higher prices. Maybe even Russia benefits by selling more oil at higher price to Europe and China.
Who benefits from No Sanctions? China , Europe , all consumers with more supply and lower prices.

nikcers
02-05-2017, 04:39 PM
Who benefits from Sanctions?
812317637631950848

nikcers
02-05-2017, 08:08 PM
Are you for real?:rolleyes:
What you think Trumps administration has no ties to Iran?


Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani was paid an unknown sum to talk to the group, known as the MEK.A potential alliance with the MEK would link the U.S. to a group with a controversial history that has gone against American interests in the past by supporting Iran's Islamic Revolution and the U.S. Embassy takeover in Tehran More than two dozen former U.S. officials, both Republican and Democratic, have spoken before the MEK, including former House Speaker and Trump adviser Newt Gingrich.

nikcers
02-05-2017, 10:53 PM
CIA Files Prove America Helped Saddam as He Gassed Iran (https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/08/26/exclusive-cia-files-prove-america-helped-saddam-as-he-gassed-iran/)

UWDude
02-05-2017, 11:33 PM
Again, it's all theater. An act, a popularity contest. Our president is an attention whore. If pretending to hate muslims and mexicans gets him attention he does it. Trump doesn't give a $#@! about anyone but Trump. His childish responses to any criticism and endless self promotion are proof of that.

So first, you participate in the outrage brigade, that says everything Trump does is an outrage. And then when the topic of war with Iran comes up, you, like Zippy, (Zippy was adamant that the Houthis tried to sink an American vessel a couple of months ago) suddenly act like its not part of the outrage. Just noticing a pattern here.

LibertyRevolution
02-06-2017, 12:05 AM
When we go to war with Iran, Russia will be on our side.
I can totally see Putin and Trump making a backroom deal to just steamroll the middle east together and take it all.
China wont like it, but Putin will give them a deal on a pipeline, so not even they are going to poke the bear.