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jct74
01-25-2017, 01:13 PM
Dr. Rand Paul Unveils Obamacare Replacement Act

01.25.17

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Yesterday, U.S. Senator and physician Rand Paul introduced S. 222, the Obamacare Replacement Act, to provide Congress with a health care plan grounded in broadly supported conservative reforms that is ready for an immediate vote after Obamacare is repealed. Dr. Paul’s proposal would expand access to higher-quality, lower-cost health care for more Americans, regardless of medical history.

“Getting government out of the American people’s way and putting them back in charge of their own health care decisions will deliver a strong, efficient system that doesn’t force them to empty out their pockets to cover their medical bills,” said Dr. Paul. “There is no excuse for waiting to craft an alternative until after we repeal Obamacare, and the Obamacare Replacement Act charts a new path forward that will insure the most people possible at the lowest price.”

The Obamacare Replacement Act empowers the American people to: 1.) Choose inexpensive insurance free of government dictates; 2.) Save unlimited amounts in a health savings account (HSA) and have wider options for using those funds; 3.) Buy insurance across state lines; and 4.) Join together in voluntary associations to gain the leverage of being part of a large insurance pool.

Dr. Paul has led the charge to replace Obamacare at the same time it is repealed, and he has been joined in calling for simultaneous action by fellow Republicans including President Trump and Speaker of the House Paul Ryan.

You can see Dr. Paul’s entire plan laid out section by section HERE (https://www.paul.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/ObamacareReplacementActSections.pdf), and you can find summary information below.

Dr. Rand Paul’s Obamacare Replacement Act, S. 222:

Legalizes Inexpensive Insurance Plans:


Ensures that Americans can purchase the health insurance coverage that best fits their needs.
Eliminates Obamacare’s essential health benefits requirement, along with other restrictive coverage and plan requirements, to once again make low-cost insurance options available to American consumers.


Protects Individuals with Pre-Existing Conditions:


Provides a two-year open-enrollment period under which individuals with pre-existing conditions can obtain coverage.
Restores HIPAA pre-existing conditions protections. Prior to Obamacare, HIPAA guaranteed that those in the group market could obtain continuous health coverage regardless of preexisting conditions.


Helps More People Save To Buy Health Insurance and Cover Medical Costs:


Incentivizes savings by authorizing a tax credit (up to $5,000 per taxpayer) for individuals and families that contribute to HSAs.
Removes the annual cap on HSAs so individuals can make unlimited contributions.
Allows HSA funds to be used to purchase insurance, cover premiums, and more easily afford a broader range of health-related expenses, including prescription and OTC drugs, dietary supplements, nutrition and physical exercise expenses, and direct primary care, among others.


Guarantees Fair Tax Treatment of Health Insurance:


Equalizes the tax treatment of the purchase of health insurance for individuals and employers by allowing individuals to deduct the cost of their health insurance from their income and payroll taxes.
Frees more Americans to purchase and maintain insurance apart from their work status.
Does not interfere with employer-provided coverage for Americans who prefer those plans.


Helps Individuals Join Together to Purchase Insurance:


Expands Association Health Plans (AHPs) to allow small business owners and individuals to band together across state lines through their membership in a trade or professional association to purchase health coverage for their families and employees at a lower cost.
Also allows individuals to pool together through any organization to purchase insurance.
Widens access to the group market and spreads out the risk, enhancing the ability of individuals and small businesses to decrease costs, increase administrative efficiencies, and further protect those with pre-existing conditions.


Allows the Purchase of Insurance Across State Lines:


Creates an interstate market that allows insurers who are licensed to sell policies in one state to offer them to residents of any other state.


Increases State Medicaid Flexibility:


Enables states to fully exercise current flexibilities afforded to them through Medicaid waivers for creating innovative state plan designs.


Empowers Physicians:


Allows non-economically aligned physicians to negotiate for higher quality health care for their patients.
Amends the Internal Revenue Code to allow a physician a tax deduction equal to the amount such physician would otherwise charge for charity medical care or uncompensated care due to bad debt, limited to 10% of a physician’s gross income for the taxable year.


https://www.paul.senate.gov/news/press/dr-rand-paul-unveils-obamacare-replacement-act

EBounding
01-25-2017, 01:21 PM
Protects Individuals with Pre-Existing Conditions:

Provides a two-year open-enrollment period under which individuals with pre-existing conditions can obtain coverage.

So is this basically a federal subsidy to give people with pre-existing conditions insurance/treatment, as long as they sign up in the next two years? I'm fine with that, since I don't see any other way to transition to a free market. But if it's not subsidized, the premiums are going to be enormous (basically the cost of treatment) and people will howl, and this replacement plan won't go anywhere.

What are the "other insurance mandates" that will be repealed. All of them?

Also, is the unlimited HSA for medical expenses only? Because right now you can basically use your HSA for retirement.

afwjam
01-25-2017, 01:52 PM
Anybody know if this is getting some airtime?

jllundqu
01-25-2017, 01:55 PM
Rand Paul's plan is full of common sense, principle, and good measure....

/begin_sarc

BUT RAND VOTED AGAINST MIKE POMPEO FOR CIA AND HE'S A CUCK WHO ISN'T ON THE TRUMP TRAIN SO WE SHOULD PUNISH HIM FOR THIS BETRAYAL!!!!!!!


/sarc

afwjam
01-25-2017, 02:07 PM
If trump does not help Rand push something through that actually helps, I'm done with my cautious optimism.

dannno
01-25-2017, 02:08 PM
Rand Paul's plan is full of common sense, principle, and good measure....

/begin_sarc

BUT RAND VOTED AGAINST MIKE POMPEO FOR CIA AND HE'S A CUCK WHO ISN'T ON THE TRUMP TRAIN SO WE SHOULD PUNISH HIM FOR THIS BETRAYAL!!!!!!!


/sarc

Have you seen any posters on this forum make this type of accusation?

afwjam
01-25-2017, 02:11 PM
Have you seen any posters on this forum make this type of accusation?

Ignore it and move on. What do you think about rands plan?

Krugminator2
01-25-2017, 02:26 PM
Allows HSA funds to be used to purchase insurance, cover premiums, and more easily afford a broader range of health-related expenses, including prescription and OTC drugs, dietary supplements, nutrition and physical exercise expenses, and direct primary care, among others.




Guarantees Fair Tax Treatment of Health Insurance:



Equalizes the tax treatment of the purchase of health insurance for individuals and employers by allowing individuals to deduct the cost of their health insurance from their income and payroll taxes.
Frees more Americans to purchase and maintain insurance apart from their work status.
Does not interfere with employer-provided coverage for Americans who prefer those plans.





Kind of an interesting provision. If you pay taxes and your insurance premiums are less than 5k for the year, you basically get "free" insurance. This provision normalizes the individual insurance market with the tax treatment for businesses. It makes the system fair.

I thought that was what he was getting at a week or two ago. His plan is definitely a big step in the right direction. I will be interested to hear the critiques of it from the free market think tanks.

This is actually a practical plan that could conceivably pass that will make my life slightly better and drive prices down. It addresses the critiques from the left and it does it in an efficient manner and offers a real world alternative to single payer.

afwjam
01-25-2017, 02:38 PM
It is certainly a small step from my constitutional perspective, however it appears to be in the right direction. I can't remember the last time a law took a step in the right direction. If trump wants my respect he needs to push this hard.

specsaregood
01-25-2017, 02:42 PM
It is certainly a small step from my constitutional perspective, however it appears to be in the right direction. I can't remember the last time a law took a step in the right direction. If trump wants my respect he needs to push this hard.

well perhaps we need to start twittering this bill at him...

Krugminator2
01-25-2017, 02:46 PM
It is certainly a small step from my constitutional perspective, however it appears to be in the right direction. I can't remember the last time a law took a step in the right direction. If trump wants my respect he needs to push this hard.

This is not a perfect plan. I strongly think there should be no tax credits for businesses or individuals but that is nowhere near happening and isn't even talked about. The plan however could pass and meaningfully impact people and move the country away from socialized medicine. It is a plan every Republican can vote for along with Joe Manchin and a handful of other Democrats.

jllundqu
01-25-2017, 03:02 PM
Have you seen any posters on this forum make this type of accusation?

Did I say anyone on this forum had done so? No.

However, on just about every article on this matter, the comments are flooded with such asinine Trumphumpery.

dannno
01-25-2017, 03:07 PM
However, on just about every article on this matter, the comments are flooded with such asinine Trumphumpery.

Do you have one example from the last two weeks?

The only person I have ever seen on this forum who claimed that Trump was better than Rand only did so because Trump was able to be so successful and Rand was not, and we needed someone who could win and who was generally on our side more than we need someone who is totally principled but is going to lose.

I think everybody on this site appreciates Rand's efforts to push Trump in a better direction, I don't think anybody here thinks Trump is perfect.. But he is pretty good in a lot of ways, the media demonizes him and the media is a piece of shit, and he is very smart and strategic.

dannno
01-25-2017, 03:09 PM
Ignore it and move on. What do you think about rands plan?

It's a better transitional measure than anything I could come up with. Ultimately I think Rand and I and most of us here would like to see the government completely uninvolved.

EBounding
01-25-2017, 03:15 PM
So are people with pre-existing conditions being fully subsidized for two years in order to give them time to join a group pool? Why would anyone want to have people with PECs in their insurance pool?

specsaregood
01-25-2017, 03:18 PM
So are people with pre-existing conditions being fully subsidized for two years in order to give them time to join a group pool? Why would anyone want to have people with PECs in their insurance pool?

Well, really they should stop calling "insurance" for preexisting conditions, as its really just prepayment for services.
So as to why? Perhaps you set one up specifically for people with a specific condition and get bulk rates for the same products/services that all of them are going to continually need.

afwjam
01-25-2017, 03:41 PM
On CNN now

idiom
01-25-2017, 04:04 PM
This market is full of racketeering.

What we need to do is make racketeering insurance affordable and accessible.

Enforcing free market basics? fuck that noise. Who needs it.

idiom
01-25-2017, 04:05 PM
Well, really they should stop calling "insurance" for preexisting conditions, as its really just prepayment for services.
So as to why? Perhaps you set one up specifically for people with a specific condition and get bulk rates for the same products/services that all of them are going to continually need.

Why though? Its the inflated cost plus a massive handling charge, instead of just the inflated cost.

harikaried
01-25-2017, 04:40 PM
Why would anyone want to have people with PECs in their insurance pool?It would probably work similar to how existing large companies' group health insurance works. Do you not hire someone because the spouse has a pre-existing condition? With this proposal, all small business restaurants' employees could band together, where most of the millions of participants are healthy, so the additional pre-existing-condition patient would not have much impact on premiums. In fact, the pool would probably have more leverage than medium-sized companies that have nowhere close to millions of participants.

jllundqu
01-25-2017, 04:43 PM
All I know is it shouldn't cost $42 for an advil or $500 for an X-ray.... I freaking hate when the government gets involved.

GunnyFreedom
01-25-2017, 05:14 PM
Rand Paul's plan is full of common sense, principle, and good measure....

/begin_sarc

BUT RAND VOTED AGAINST MIKE POMPEO FOR CIA AND HE'S A CUCK WHO ISN'T ON THE TRUMP TRAIN SO WE SHOULD PUNISH HIM FOR THIS BETRAYAL!!!!!!!


/sarc

At least that nonsensical shit is finally starting to lose steam around RPF's.

Carlybee
01-25-2017, 05:16 PM
"Once again be able to get low cost plans".....when have we had low cost plans in the last 15 years?

Carlybee
01-25-2017, 05:18 PM
I'm a diabetic. I ran out of meds yesterday. It costs $600 WITH insurance. I'm not going to get it. If I croak, so be it.

presence
01-25-2017, 06:00 PM
This does nothing to address the CAUSE of astronomical cost of care in the US.

When someone stands up to chop down the patent, license, prescription, approval, mandate, and regulate scheme I'll be impressed.

The problem is the ARTIFICIAL STATE IMPOSED MEDICAL SHORTAGE.

only so many doctors because uncle only approves so many
only so many manufacturers because uncle only approves so many
only so many products because uncle grants monopoly rights via patent

the entire industry is a racketeering scam plain and simple

presence
01-25-2017, 06:05 PM
I'm a diabetic. I ran out of meds yesterday. It costs $600 WITH insurance. I'm not going to get it. If I croak, so be it.

consider a chromium supplement
http://www.naturalnews.com/030292_chromium_diabetes.html

GunnyFreedom
01-25-2017, 08:18 PM
Have you seen any posters on this forum make this type of accusation?

RPF's seems to be recovering from the mindless worship zone faster than most places on the Internet despite our having adopted it bigger badder and earlier than the clown-crowds that followed. This kind of irrational exuberance is less common here now than it was say 6 months ago. It has very significantly toned down since the actual election and again post nomination. It is, however, still rampant around the rest of the interweb tubes.

eleganz
01-26-2017, 01:15 AM
Rand Paul's plan is full of common sense, principle, and good measure....

/begin_sarc

BUT RAND VOTED AGAINST MIKE POMPEO FOR CIA AND HE'S A CUCK WHO ISN'T ON THE TRUMP TRAIN SO WE SHOULD PUNISH HIM FOR THIS BETRAYAL!!!!!!!


/sarc

I didn't see the Trump supporters on Reddit complain about Rand not voting for Pompeo, people still really like Rand, except for Breitbart/Red State bottom feeder types.

eleganz
01-26-2017, 01:22 AM
I'm a diabetic. I ran out of meds yesterday. It costs $600 WITH insurance. I'm not going to get it. If I croak, so be it.


How long are those meds supposed to last you? Is it $600 every month?

No generics?

I had a medication that I used to get at Target, then the price went up 4x and I gave in and went with them after checking with Costco and CVS and not getting a better price. Someone told me Walmart had the generics and I went back to the original price, which I'm comfortable with.

Carlybee
01-26-2017, 07:37 AM
How long are those meds supposed to last you? Is it $600 every month?

No generics?

I had a medication that I used to get at Target, then the price went up 4x and I gave in and went with them after checking with Costco and CVS and not getting a better price. Someone told me Walmart had the generics and I went back to the original price, which I'm comfortable with.

It's $600 a month...that's just for one. Last year I had a manufacturer coupon but it expired. I just sent my doctor an email and told him I need to take the generics or I can't take it. I don't really want to take any of it and could reverse it with a plant based diet but my willpower is meh..apparently.

specsaregood
01-26-2017, 07:40 AM
Media coverage:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/rand-paul-unveils-obamacare-replacement/ar-AAmeDyQ

http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/25/sen-rand-paul-introduces-obamacare-replacement-plan/

https://mishtalk.com/2017/01/25/rand-pauls-obamacare-replacement-act-vs-mish-proposals/

http://reason.com/blog/2017/01/25/sen-rand-paul-introduces-replacement-for



• Provides a two-year open-enrollment period under which individuals with pre-existing conditions can obtain coverage.

• Restores HIPAA pre-existing conditions protections. Prior to Obamacare, HIPAA guaranteed those within the group market could obtain continuous health coverage regardless of preexisting conditions.




That's to cover those who worry about mass insurance deprivation without Obamacare. But interesting market innovations are in the bill to change the game as well:


• Replaces the existing open-ended tax exclusion for employer-provided health insurance with a universal deduction on both income and payroll taxes that would provide the same level of benefit regardless of how an individual obtains their health insurance.

Paul lamented in a conference call for media introducing the bill this afternoon that some were interpreting this as eliminating the employee tax deduction; it is not, merely extending it to individuals paying for their own as individuals or in a market-formed group.


http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/874934


The latest GOP proposal to replace the embattled Affordable Care Act (ACA) predictably hews to popular Republican approaches to healthcare reform, but also contains some surprising provisions that directly benefit physicians.
--snip--
Under a bill introduced yesterday by Sen. Rand Paul, MD (R-KY), physicians could deduct the value of charity or uncompensated medical care on their taxes up to 10% of their gross income. The bill, titled the Obamacare Replacement Act, also would allow independent physicians to join together and collectively bargain with private insurers, which is now prohibited by federal antitrust laws.

EBounding
01-26-2017, 07:55 AM
That reason article answered my question regarding PECs; health pools won't be allowed to exclude people based on their conditions.



Amends the Public Health Service Act (PHSA) to allow individuals to pool together to provide for health benefits coverage through Individual Health Pools (IHPs).These can include non-profit organizations (including churches, alumni associations, trade associations, other civic groups, or entities formed strictly for establishing an IHP) so long as the organization does not condition membership on any health status-related factor.


I still don't care for that, but it's certainly better than forcing insurers to directly pay the treatment for those with PECs.

Overall, it's a vast improvement and it's relatively easy to understand. It actually creates markets, levels the playing field, and will hopefully move people toward getting portable plans by joining pools not based on current employment.

afwjam
01-26-2017, 10:37 AM
It's $600 a month...that's just for one. Last year I had a manufacturer coupon but it expired. I just sent my doctor an email and told him I need to take the generics or I can't take it. I don't really want to take any of it and could reverse it with a plant based diet but my willpower is meh..apparently.

while plants are good, meat and fat are also good. It's the carbohydrates(sugars) that are your enemy, look into the ketogenic diet, did wonders for me and I love bacon,

fisharmor
01-26-2017, 10:56 AM
Under a bill introduced yesterday by Sen. Rand Paul, MD (R-KY), physicians could deduct the value of charity or uncompensated medical care on their taxes up to 10% of their gross income.
The thing I don't get is, why cap it at 10%? All that does is impose bureaucratic bullshit on people who would naturally want to provide charity.
If that 10% was 100%, this plan could have spurred doctors to create voluntarily funded, 100% charity clinics.
Instead it's creating another layer of overhead to deal with.

Don't get me wrong. This is the best plan so far. And he's absolutely right that, if the Republicans don't replace it with something the minute it's repealed, that's political poison.
It could use some libertarian tweaking though.

specsaregood
01-26-2017, 10:58 AM
The thing I don't get is, why cap it at 10%? All that does is impose bureaucratic bullshit on people who would naturally want to provide charity.
If that 10% was 100%, this plan could have spurred doctors to create voluntarily funded, 100% charity clinics.
Instead it's creating another layer of overhead to deal with.


I would guess that it was capped as a compromise to try to get support rather than being attacked as a way for doctors to "cheat" on their taxes. If it works out well as is, there would be nothing to stop them from upping that number in the future.

phill4paul
01-26-2017, 11:00 AM
The thing I don't get is, why cap it at 10%? All that does is impose bureaucratic bullshit on people who would naturally want to provide charity.
If that 10% was 100%, this plan could have spurred doctors to create voluntarily funded, 100% charity clinics.
Instead it's creating another layer of overhead to deal with.

Don't get me wrong. This is the best plan so far. And he's absolutely right that, if the Republicans don't replace it with something the minute it's repealed, that's political poison.
It could use some libertarian tweaking though.[/COLOR]

Agreed.

eleganz
01-26-2017, 01:20 PM
The thing I don't get is, why cap it at 10%? All that does is impose bureaucratic bull$#@! on people who would naturally want to provide charity.
If that 10% was 100%, this plan could have spurred doctors to create voluntarily funded, 100% charity clinics.
Instead it's creating another layer of overhead to deal with.

Don't get me wrong. This is the best plan so far. And he's absolutely right that, if the Republicans don't replace it with something the minute it's repealed, that's political poison.
It could use some libertarian tweaking though.[/COLOR]

100% would be nice but it appears Rand is being realistic with this one. His insight as a doctor who does do some part time charity work is likely the origin of this. My doctor friends are similar.

I suppose 100% charity clinic would just be considered a non-profit.

presence
01-26-2017, 02:32 PM
It's $600 a month...that's just for one. Last year I had a manufacturer coupon but it expired. I just sent my doctor an email and told him I need to take the generics or I can't take it. I don't really want to take any of it and could reverse it with a plant based diet but my willpower is meh..apparently.

probably 50% cheaper to get round trip plane ticket to mexico and smuggle in a years supply

Superfluous Man
01-26-2017, 02:38 PM
How can we get Trump to say whether or not he supports this?

It's a given that he doesn't. But how can we press him to go on record?

Superfluous Man
01-26-2017, 02:46 PM
Did I say anyone on this forum had done so? No.

However, on just about every article on this matter, the comments are flooded with such asinine Trumphumpery.

Your caricature of the typical Trump troll was completely accurate.

Danno objected because it hit a little too close to home.

Carlybee
01-26-2017, 10:16 PM
while plants are good, meat and fat are also good. It's the carbohydrates(sugars) that are your enemy, look into the ketogenic diet, did wonders for me and I love bacon,

There's different ways to control it but I know for sure plant based will reverse it.

Carlybee
01-26-2017, 10:18 PM
probably 50% cheaper to get round trip plane ticket to mexico and smuggle in a years supply

My in-laws are in Canada. I think I'll find out how much it is there.

idiom
01-28-2017, 07:55 AM
Anti-Trust Reform for Healthcare

Provides an exemption from Federal antitrust laws for health care professionals engaged in negotiations with a health plan regarding the terms of a contract under which the professionals provide health care items or services.

This section applies only to health care professionals excluded from the National Labor Relations Act. It would also not apply to contracts or care provided under Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, the FEHBP, or the IHS as well as medical and dental care provided to members of the uniformed services and veterans.

WTF is this bullshit?

Anti trust needs to be enforced not exempted.

specsaregood
01-28-2017, 08:03 AM
WTF is this bullshit?

Anti trust needs to be enforced not exempted.

Huh, wtf is your bullshit. Why should independent physicians be barred from collectively bargaining with insurance companies?

silverhandorder
01-28-2017, 08:08 AM
I just read the OP. That is an amazing plan.

Edit: first fuck liberals. I think this plan has a high chance to pass because it is refer to the top.

Second 10% ain't bad. I wouldn't want one doctor basically doing all the charity. It would be like non profits. Those are liberal communist parasite central.

10% means you can go around town and find charity.

afwjam
01-28-2017, 12:23 PM
Why is trump not talking about rands plan? I thought that Obamacare repeal was priority number one for republicans? Or are we just going to focus on trade wars?

EBounding
01-28-2017, 02:25 PM
Cuz we gots to keep all the scarey people out!

idiom
01-28-2017, 09:06 PM
Huh, wtf is your bull$#@!. Why should independent physicians be barred from collectively bargaining with insurance companies?

Market domination?

Why do patients need so much insurance? Is it the insurance companies charging patients 5 times market rates for care?

EBounding
01-30-2017, 10:00 AM
So what are the chances of Rand's plan going through with this stupid refugee ban going on?

Brian4Liberty
03-27-2017, 11:39 AM
Bump.