PDA

View Full Version : Betsy Devos (Ed. Sec.) Had A Bad Day In The Senate




jllundqu
01-18-2017, 11:42 AM
I watched a lot of the senate hearing for Betsy Devos and it was really bad... I don't have anything against her, but her answers were not well thought out and those democratic senators had a field day with her.... I think it was so bad, it might even be enough to sink her nomination.

Did anyone else watch? She was asked about guns in schools and said, as an example, that a school in Wyoming needed guns in case of grizzly bears. She was completely unfamiliar with federal laws regarding children with disabilities, and it was a general bad day for her.... She came off as an elitist multibillionaire donor with no real experience or knowledge.

fcreature
01-18-2017, 11:47 AM
Not sure about Devos but from what I saw the Democrats came across as a bunch of disconnected, ignorant, nincompoops.

jllundqu
01-18-2017, 11:48 AM
Not sure about Devos but from what I saw the Democrats came across as a bunch of disconnected, ignorant, nincompoops.

They were openly hostile to her, but she brought it on herself, imo... she was wholly ignorant of many issues that any ed sec nom should know.....

Superfluous Man
01-18-2017, 11:51 AM
I only saw one clip, where Franken was asking her about the debate between measuring proficiency and growth, and the OP accurately describes what happened there.

It reminded me of the Harriet Miers hearings.

euphemia
01-18-2017, 12:06 PM
Not sure about Devos but from what I saw the Democrats came across as a bunch of disconnected, ignorant, nincompoops.

This.

Dems seem more interested in speechifying and gotcha questions than in the education of America's kids. That seems to be the MO of every committee.

CPUd
01-18-2017, 12:08 PM
She didn't seem very prepared at all, not sure what kind of questions she expected to get. Most likely the incoming POTUS put her up as a favor to her brother.

euphemia
01-18-2017, 12:11 PM
Much of the questioning was very off-topic. I'm not sure there is a way to prepare for that.

Superfluous Man
01-18-2017, 12:22 PM
Much of the questioning was very off-topic. I'm not sure there is a way to prepare for that.

I didn't see anything other than the proficiency/growth questioning, which she definitely should have been prepared for. What questions do you have in mind?

euphemia
01-18-2017, 12:26 PM
I didn't see anything other than the proficiency/growth questioning, which she definitely should have been prepared for. What questions do you have in mind?

There were many questions about personal wealth and blah, blah, blah, just like all the other hearings. De Vos is heir to the Amway empire. Of all the committee members, Senator Paul was the only one who asked actual questions. He's been very good in every hearing.

Chair Senator Alexander had to do quite a bit of moderating because Dems spent a lot of time asking for more time for questioning. He basically said these nominees would be treated according to the same rules as Obama's appointees.

CPUd
01-18-2017, 12:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvAQN54JIGk

Superfluous Man
01-18-2017, 12:40 PM
There were many questions about personal wealth and blah, blah, blah, just like all the other hearings. De Vos is heir to the Amway empire. Of all the committee members, Senator Paul was the only one who asked actual questions. He's been very good in every hearing.

Chair Senator Alexander had to do quite a bit of moderating because Dems spent a lot of time asking for more time for questioning. He basically said these nominees would be treated according to the same rules as Obama's appointees.

The question I saw from Franken was definitely on topic. And she definitely showed herself to be not up to the job of Education Secretary in just that one.

EBounding
01-18-2017, 12:41 PM
She's pro Common Core (renamed Higher Standards now).

Superfluous Man
01-18-2017, 12:48 PM
She's pro Common Core (renamed Higher Standards now).

Yeah, one thing that was clear was that she does want the federal government to be in charge of schools.

euphemia
01-18-2017, 01:27 PM
She is not in favor of Common Core.

In the EPA Administrator confirmation hearing, I'm just shaking my head. Senator Merkley (D-OR) has spent a long time talking about asthma and blah, blah, blah. He doesn't have asthma. I do. When he held up the inhaler I wanted to vomit. I went from a generic inhaler at $5 copay and about $20 without insurance, to an inhaler that is $160. The EPA outlawed the old propellant, and pushed a new propellant that is way more expensive and does not deliver the medicine nearly as well as the old one. Thanks a whole lot for that. Fortunately, I found an online coupon so I can afford meds for about 10 more months, no thanks to the government.

devil21
01-18-2017, 01:32 PM
Her estate has large stakes in federal college loan collection corporations and her brother is Blackwater's Erik Prince (styles himself after CIA's Bill Donovan). That's all I needed to see.

dannno
01-18-2017, 02:17 PM
They were openly hostile to her, but she brought it on herself, imo... she was wholly ignorant of many issues that any ed sec nom should know.....

Dude, there shouldn't even be an ed sec, I have no idea what you are talking about. The federal government should have NOTHING to do with education..

euphemia
01-18-2017, 02:20 PM
Dude, there shouldn't even be an ed sec, I have no idea what you are talking about. The federal government should have NOTHING to do with education..

I agree. I think that's part of the rub.

dannno
01-18-2017, 02:20 PM
Her estate has large stakes in federal college loan collection corporations and her brother is Blackwater's Erik Prince (styles himself after CIA's Bill Donovan). That's all I needed to see.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBTCVgZUuso

Superfluous Man
01-18-2017, 03:08 PM
Dude, there shouldn't even be an ed sec, I have no idea what you are talking about. The federal government should have NOTHING to do with education..


I agree. I think that's part of the rub.

It's good to see that you two don't support DeVos either.

dannno
01-18-2017, 03:20 PM
It's good to see that you two don't support DeVos either.

She will move us in a much better direction than Hillary's pick would have, and will very likely move us in a better direction than where we are today. Ultimately the department should be canned, but until then I am fairly happy with this pick. If the usual suspects around here and the MSM don't like her, then that is a sign she is probably a great pick.

CPUd
01-18-2017, 03:24 PM
She will move us in a much better direction than Hillary's pick would have, and will very likely move us in a better direction than where we are today. Ultimately the department should be canned, but until then I am fairly happy with this pick. If the usual suspects around here and the MSM don't like her, then that is a sign she is probably a great pick.

This means if someone wanted your support for something, all they would have to do is get the usual suspects and the MSM to attack it.

nikcers
01-18-2017, 03:25 PM
This means if someone wanted your support for something, all they would have to do is get the usual suspects and the MSM to attack it.
2016inanutshell

jllundqu
01-18-2017, 03:25 PM
Dude, there shouldn't even be an ed sec, I have no idea what you are talking about. The federal government should have NOTHING to do with education..

Yeah no shit, Sherlock.... They should do away with the whole department... but seeing as how that ain't happening, I think it's funny the person going to be at the helm doesn't really understand education and has no real experience other than being married to a billionaire donor.

euphemia
01-18-2017, 03:32 PM
Yeah no $#@!, Sherlock.... They should do away with the whole department... but seeing as how that ain't happening, I think it's funny the person going to be at the helm doesn't really understand education and has no real experience other than being married to a billionaire donor.

That depends on how you look at it. If you are thinking in terms of government education as we know it, then she understands enough to know it isn't working. She might not be up to speed with every nuance of education law, but that's part of the problem, isn't it? The Interior nominee said Smokey Bear used to be a friendly character. Now it's law enforcement. That statement applies across the board, and it's what we all hate. We hate that government has become so big and so intrusive, that it has become one giant law enforcement agency. Everyone is a criminal, even little kids who hug on the playground or chew their graham crackers into guns.

My grandboys go to a charter school in one of the worst school systems in the nation, so I made it my business to learn about charter schools. While I don't think kids should be educated by government, there has to be some sort of transition away from full government union involvement. I think most of these nominees are going to try to work themselves out of a job. De Vos seems to be one of those.

dannno
01-18-2017, 03:33 PM
Yeah no shit, Sherlock.... They should do away with the whole department... but seeing as how that ain't happening, I think it's funny the person going to be at the helm doesn't really understand education and has no real experience other than being married to a billionaire donor.

I'm guessing she knows a good amount about educating people, she probably just doesn't know a lot about what the current Fed gov's role in the whole operation is. Which is fine, I would like to see it minimized.

I'm glad Trump beat Hillary, but I would prefer my dog was President over Trump, my dog doesn't know shit about being President.

jllundqu
01-18-2017, 03:34 PM
Typical bullshit from Trump supporters.... "Well Hillary's pick would have been worse!" lmao

nikcers
01-18-2017, 03:35 PM
Typical bull$#@! from Trump supporters.... "Well Hillary's pick would have been worse!" lmao
Eventhoughshewouldoflosttolinsdaygraham

jllundqu
01-18-2017, 03:38 PM
I am a homeschooling dad... my interest in federal involvement in education is that they leave me and my family the hell alone. She hasn't really taken a position on homeschooling... I just hope she doesn't make things worse than they are.

euphemia
01-18-2017, 03:40 PM
You all are too short sighted. Sure, it's not going away. Not this year. Eight years from now it might be a vastly different landscape.

TheCount
01-18-2017, 03:51 PM
Eight years from now it might be a vastly different landscape.In a better way?

euphemia
01-18-2017, 04:00 PM
In a better way?

Only time will tell. The only thing I think is that the incoming administration is more amenable to a different way of doing things. The current way of educating is not working. This is the time to listen and offer input. One of my Senators (who has done little to brag about) is chairing the committee conducting this hearing. This might be one of the few opportunities we have to bring about positive changes.

silverhandorder
01-18-2017, 04:14 PM
Considering people in this thread I would say she had a great time.

euphemia
01-18-2017, 04:27 PM
DeVos is probably the weakest of the Trump cabinet nominees. I don't think she had as bad a day as everyone says. It came out in the hearing that she was available to come to Washington in December and talk to anyone who wanted to talk, but nobody seemed to have the time. So yesterday Dems suddenly wanted more rounds of questioning, to which Senator Alexander said no. Then all the questions turned into agenda driven gotcha questions. It's happening to all the nominees in some approximation. Education seems to suddenly be top plate for all the Dems, because they have to keep the indoctrination going.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
01-18-2017, 04:56 PM
Betsy DeVos. Philanthropist donating hundreds of millions.



http://www.dbdvfoundation.org/uploads/images/betsy-devos.jpg




Al Franken. Hack comedian wanting more of your money.



https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTQW0ee8I2p77IPdBT9WKvoLwteHAAco G-3m0PP5YBwUcbLb7ibrA





DeVos > Franken


..

euphemia
01-18-2017, 05:14 PM
Regarding the measurement of learning, DeVos is against evaluating according to the same tests used by regular district schools because the material is different. They don't necessarily use the same texbooks. Our grandboys go to a charter school in a very large metropolitan area, and I can tell you they are tested rigorously. I think a little too much, actually. However, regular district schools there has been a backlash against testing because the tests are used to justify poor teaching. In the particular charter system I know about, the testing evaluates learning, and measures the students' mastery of the material.

Teachers' unions are horrified at the possibility that DeVos would be confirmed, because she supports public evaluation of schools and things nonperforming and underperforming schools should go into what I call receivership so the district is removed from the equation.

The charter model gives economically disadvantaged students at least a 50% better opportunity at a good education. New Orleans went to an almost full charter model after Katrina, and their graduation rates skyrocketed right off the bat. It's a model that deserves a little bit of respect. Current administration is trying to tear that apart, but there you go.

I think charter schools are a good transition to home schooling.

spudea
01-18-2017, 06:38 PM
Al Franken: "Explain business ethics and how they are applied today...."


https://youtu.be/hU9-Xskz4PU

euphemia
01-18-2017, 07:23 PM
Franken is tiresome.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
01-18-2017, 07:40 PM
Teacher unions and public schools. The classic example of today's libtard. They want big federal intervention, but then bristle when those federalists hold them accountable.

Big gov people want to have it both ways. The conservetard where I live suck up to law enforcement. They love laws regarding drugs, alcohol, gambling, raw milk sales, seat belts, asset forfeiture, etc.; however, they scream bloody murder when it comes to gun laws.

Build government in one area, and you necessarily build it in other areas. The government that is your friend today is your enemy tomorrow. The Frankenstein you build is the monster that you get.

KEEF
01-18-2017, 08:01 PM
They were openly hostile to her, but she brought it on herself, imo... she was wholly ignorant of many issues that any ed sec nom should know.....
Speaking for someone who has been in the business of education for almost 20 years now, I agree with this statement.

TheCount
01-19-2017, 02:09 AM
she was wholly ignorant of many issues that any ed sec nom should know.....It's a new world. War is peace. Spending is conservative. Government power leads to liberty. Ignorance is knowledge.

dannno
01-19-2017, 02:24 AM
Typical bullshit from Trump supporters.... "Well Hillary's pick would have been worse!" lmao


I am a homeschooling dad... my interest in federal involvement in education is that they leave me and my family the hell alone. She hasn't really taken a position on homeschooling... I just hope she doesn't make things worse than they are.


You of all people should be ecstatic Trump beat Hillary.

Hillary would have take more of your rights and made it more difficult if not impossible to home school your children, or at least that is the direction she would have taken us.

Trump's pick will likely make your life easier than it is now, at least I would bet on that. You shouldn't have to pay taxes to public schools you don't use, and I doubt that will happen under a Trump administration, but you should at least be happy that you will have better control over your kids' education.

angelatc
01-19-2017, 10:38 AM
She is not in favor of Common Core.

In the EPA Administrator confirmation hearing, I'm just shaking my head. Senator Merkley (D-OR) has spent a long time talking about asthma and blah, blah, blah. He doesn't have asthma. I do. When he held up the inhaler I wanted to vomit. I went from a generic inhaler at $5 copay and about $20 without insurance, to an inhaler that is $160. The EPA outlawed the old propellant, and pushed a new propellant that is way more expensive and does not deliver the medicine nearly as well as the old one. Thanks a whole lot for that. Fortunately, I found an online coupon so I can afford meds for about 10 more months, no thanks to the government.

Bullshit. I am here in Michigan. She was instrumental in getting Common Core through the legislature here, lobbying hard against the resistance. Tom McMillin, who is one of us, was in the legislature at the time and says she's a huge trojan horse.

She heads up an organization that wants to digitize and datamine the nation's school systems. Hre's a link to the guidebook her organization published: http://missourieducationwatchdog.com/dreambox-datamining-devos/

jllundqu
01-19-2017, 11:36 AM
Bullshit. I am here in Michigan. She was instrumental in getting Common Core through the legislature here, lobbying hard against the resistance. Tom McMillin, who is one of us, was in the legislature at the time and says she's a huge trojan horse.

She heads up an organization that wants to digitize and datamine the nation's school systems. Hre's a link to the guidebook her organization published: http://missourieducationwatchdog.com/dreambox-datamining-devos/

Exactly. This was discussed at length in another sub. She is all for common core even thought she now 'claims' to be open to new ideas.

Brian4Liberty
01-19-2017, 12:02 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvAQN54JIGk

That's the only part I have seen of her. So she's not very good at deflecting questions. She reminds me a little of Gary Johnson in that sense. Gun control and other leftist concern questions aside, it seemed like the relevant questions above were about charter schools taking public money and accountability of education. That explains why all of the teacher's unions are protesting about this.

Bottom line is that the public unions want all of the money, and don't want accountability.

NorthCarolinaLiberty
01-19-2017, 12:29 PM
It's a new world. War is peace. Spending is conservative. Government power leads to liberty. Ignorance is knowledge.

"Supporting member" TheCount is actually not a supporting member.

Anti Federalist
01-19-2017, 01:14 PM
They were openly hostile to her, but she brought it on herself, imo... she was wholly ignorant of many issues that any ed sec nom should know.....

I don't know why anybody on a confirmation list of Trump appointees, would not know to approach a confirmation hearing with all your ducks in row and with the knowledge that you will be walking into an openly hostile venue.

Anti Federalist
01-19-2017, 01:30 PM
I am a homeschooling dad... my interest in federal involvement in education is that they leave me and my family the hell alone. She hasn't really taken a position on homeschooling... I just hope she doesn't make things worse than they are.

I was no Trump fan myself, but the people saying that "Hillary would have been worse" are right.

From the perspective of homeschooling rights, rest assured, whoever Hillary would have proposed, would have been much, much worse.

Cautious optimism...

Anti Federalist
01-19-2017, 01:34 PM
Bullshit. I am here in Michigan. She was instrumental in getting Common Core through the legislature here, lobbying hard against the resistance. Tom McMillin, who is one of us, was in the legislature at the time and says she's a huge trojan horse.

She heads up an organization that wants to digitize and datamine the nation's school systems. Hre's a link to the guidebook her organization published: http://missourieducationwatchdog.com/dreambox-datamining-devos/

So, the fact that she fell all over herself is a good thing.

Thanks for that info.

Anti Federalist
01-19-2017, 01:36 PM
FWIW:

PHILANTHROPY (interviewer): What about homeschooling?

MRS. DEVOS: Homeschooling represents another perfectly valid educational option. We’ve seen more and more people opt for homeschooling, including in urban areas. What you’re seeing is parents who are fed up with their lack of power to do anything about where their kids are assigned to go to school. To the extent that homeschooling puts parents back in charge of their kids’ education, more power to them.

http://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/topic/excellence_in_philanthropy/interview_with_betsy_devos

angelatc
01-20-2017, 10:55 AM
FWIW:

PHILANTHROPY (interviewer): What about homeschooling?

MRS. DEVOS: Homeschooling represents another perfectly valid educational option. We’ve seen more and more people opt for homeschooling, including in urban areas. What you’re seeing is parents who are fed up with their lack of power to do anything about where their kids are assigned to go to school. To the extent that homeschooling puts parents back in charge of their kids’ education, more power to them.

http://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/topic/excellence_in_philanthropy/interview_with_betsy_devos

She is a mixed bag. Amash was helped immensely by her support. Amash announced, the DeVos family announced their support, and then Ehlers announced he was retiring. Not that they pushed Ehlers out - Amash just was hand-picked for the seat, I think.

But people who think that she is not looking to make a buck off the national education system are being willfully delusional, I think

devil21
03-18-2017, 10:28 PM
Her estate has large stakes in federal college loan collection corporations and her brother is Blackwater's Erik Prince (styles himself after CIA's Bill Donovan). That's all I needed to see.

Entirely coincidental, I'm sure.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-18/student-loans


Just days after reports emerged that student loan defaults are soaring, which is undoubtedly due to some combination of, among other things, poor job prospects for the millions of snowflakes who graduate each year with their $200,000 educations in anthropology and the moral hazard created by liberal politicians constantly calling for student debts to be 'forgiven' (a.k.a. forcefully jammed down the throats of taxpayers), the Trump administration has revoked rules put in place by Obama that barred student debt collectors from charging penalty fees on past-due loans.

Cha-ching!

Krugminator2
03-18-2017, 10:31 PM
Entirely coincidental, I'm sure.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-18/student-loans



Cha-ching!

Isn't that a good thing. If you don't pay your debts on time, shouldn't you be charged a penalty?

devil21
03-18-2017, 10:51 PM
Isn't that a good thing. If you don't pay your debts on time, shouldn't you be charged a penalty?

First, they aren't "your" debts. They're digits created out of thin air by a bank's computer and the liability assigned to a strawman legal fiction that people are tricked into paying for. Surely you know the entire financial system is a giant ponzi scam and legalized fraud.

Second, even if a penalty was a 'good thing', it reeks of corruption for the cabinet member's estate to personally profit from executive action. Do you support executive actions that financially benefit the executive?