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View Full Version : Rand Paul Previews His Obamacare Replacement




angelatc
01-15-2017, 09:29 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/15/paul-previews-obamacare-replacement-plan-focusing-on-lower-cost-policies.html

Paul, a physician, has emerged in recent weeks as a leader in the repeal-replace effort, amid Republican concerns that fulfilling campaign vows to dismantle ObamaCare at the start of the 115th Congress could leave tens of millions of Americans uninsured.

Incoming Republican President Donald Trump has expressed similar concerns, despite campaigning on a winning repeal-replace agenda.



Paul said Sunday the plan also will include health saving accounts and tax credits to help customers save money.

He also suggested the plan will allow people and small businesses to create their own markets.

"There's no reason why (a business owner) with four employees shouldn't be able to join with hundreds and hundreds of other businesses that are small to become a large entity to get leverage to bring your prices down," Paul said.

However, he acknowledged rolling back Medicaid expansion as part of the ObamaCare repeal remains a “big question.”

Anti Federalist
01-15-2017, 09:32 PM
Paul said Sunday the plan also will include health saving accounts and tax credits to help customers save money.

Already got that, and it's a confusing mess.

enhanced_deficit
01-15-2017, 09:38 PM
Have not seen details but any plan that forces healthy & young people to buy health insurance probably would not go anywhere.
You can't replace one disaster with another version of a disaster.

angelatc
01-15-2017, 09:51 PM
Already got that, and it's a confusing mess.

It was a confusing mess before Obamacare. Now it's just an expensive subsidized mess. We all knew the GOP was just dicking us along with the repeal talk. They might as well just socialize it and spare us the decade of agony.

specsaregood
01-15-2017, 09:56 PM
They might as well just socialize it and spare us the decade of agony.

And leave a decade of graft on the table? I don't see that happening.

Anti Federalist
01-15-2017, 09:58 PM
It was a confusing mess before Obamacare. Now it's just an expensive subsidized mess. We all knew the GOP was just dicking us along with the repeal talk. They might as well just socialize it and spare us the decade of agony.

Well, we both know that was the plan all along, once the insurance mafia got done milking us.

Anti Federalist
01-15-2017, 10:02 PM
And leave a decade of graft on the table? I don't see that happening.

No kidding.

I wish Randal would take his own advice and replace ObamaCare with freedom.

NH is one of the few states in the nation that does NOT require mandatory vehicle insurance.

Consequently, it has some of lowest costs to insure, which in turn translates into one of the highest rates of insured motorists in the country.

If people are not compelled at government gunpoint to buy a thing, market forces will make it affordable, or the company will go out of business.

There is no way you are going to get people to pay $1500 a month for health insurance.

phill4paul
01-16-2017, 07:44 AM
No kidding.

I wish Randal would take his own advice and replace ObamaCare with freedom.

NH is one of the few states in the nation that does NOT require mandatory vehicle insurance.

Consequently, it has some of lowest costs to insure, which in turn translates into one of the highest rates of insured motorists in the country.

If people are not compelled at government gunpoint to buy a thing, market forces will make it affordable, or the company will go out of business.

There is no way you are going to get people to pay $1500 a month for health insurance.

I did not know this. Of course people would choose to buy if the rates are reasonable.

ChristianAnarchist
01-16-2017, 08:00 AM
Being in the medical industry I have to put my 2 cents in... People really shouldn't NEED most insurance. If people just bought a cheap plan to cover major medical costs such as emergency surgery and organ failure they should be able to pay for regular doctor visits and drugs out of pocket and save that $1000 per month they now pay (one way or another) for these plans that cover everything. Sure people would need to actually SAVE some of their money to cover small medical costs but that's too much to ask these days I guess...

KrokHead
01-16-2017, 10:19 AM
And leave a decade of graft on the table? I don't see that happening.

Lol!

Brian4Liberty
01-16-2017, 10:27 AM
Being in the medical industry I have to put my 2 cents in... People really shouldn't NEED most insurance. If people just bought a cheap plan to cover major medical costs such as emergency surgery and organ failure they should be able to pay for regular doctor visits and drugs out of pocket and save that $1000 per month they now pay (one way or another) for these plans that cover everything. Sure people would need to actually SAVE some of their money to cover small medical costs but that's too much to ask these days I guess...

Exactly. And that is anathema in our modern crony socialist snowflake society. No better business model than convincing everyone that your financial product is essential to life itself. The insurance industry has co-opted government, and the people themselves.

Schifference
01-16-2017, 10:31 AM
Being in the medical industry I have to put my 2 cents in... People really shouldn't NEED most insurance. If people just bought a cheap plan to cover major medical costs such as emergency surgery and organ failure they should be able to pay for regular doctor visits and drugs out of pocket and save that $1000 per month they now pay (one way or another) for these plans that cover everything. Sure people would need to actually SAVE some of their money to cover small medical costs but that's too much to ask these days I guess...

In theory that sounds good but I don't think the govt will allow that. Why? If I am not mistaken a lot of bankruptcies are due to medical bills. If a poor person can't pay their bill how will the medical establishment collect? People will go without the care and when sick go to doctor/hospital and won't pay the bill.

opal
01-16-2017, 10:33 AM
Maybe Rand should listen to his dad's old debates.. we don't replace cancer with anything

ChristianAnarchist
01-16-2017, 12:22 PM
In theory that sounds good but I don't think the govt will allow that. Why? If I am not mistaken a lot of bankruptcies are due to medical bills. If a poor person can't pay their bill how will the medical establishment collect? People will go without the care and when sick go to doctor/hospital and won't pay the bill.

We are in the medical field. We have patients who file bankruptcy. We eat it and go on. Life sometimes throws you some lemons so make some lemonade...

We also work with any patient who says they are having a hard time paying their bill. We will reduce or accept payments from anyone who is willing to make the effort.

bunklocoempire
01-16-2017, 12:34 PM
We are in the medical field. We have patients who file bankruptcy. We eat it and go on. Life sometimes throws you some lemons so make some lemonade...

We also work with any patient who says they are having a hard time paying their bill. We will reduce or accept payments from anyone who is willing to make the effort.

Good business practice. Working with the client.

Krugminator2
01-16-2017, 02:14 PM
No kidding.

I wish Randal would take his own advice and replace ObamaCare with freedom.

NH is one of the few states in the nation that does NOT require mandatory vehicle insurance.

Consequently, it has some of lowest costs to insure, which in turn translates into one of the highest rates of insured motorists in the country.

If people are not compelled at government gunpoint to buy a thing, market forces will make it affordable, or the company will go out of business.

There is no way you are going to get people to pay $1500 a month for health insurance.


He isn't proposing mandatory insurance. No idea where you got that from. I guess when you say you are for freedom you are saying you don't think people should be able to buy insurance from states with fewer regulations because that is the current system that will stay in place without replacement.

I hate his idea of tax credits to buy insurance. But it is extremely bizarre you are bitching about that. You support all sorts of crony interventions like tariffs and the Carrier deal. This makes the current terrible system fair. The current system is built on tax credits for people who get insurance through their employers. It looks like Rand is basically expanding the same policy for 1099 workers and the self-employed. I think it is extremely dumb policy. But it fair for people like me who pay both sides of FICA and who pay for their own insurance who don't get a tax credit only a tax deduction.

devil21
01-16-2017, 02:25 PM
Not trying to throw shade on Rand's bill or Trump's promise but, so far, everything I've seen about the GOP's replacement plan (admittedly it's not much yet) looks like only changing the terminology but not changing much substance. A "tax credit" instead of a "subsidy", for example. Word games.

jmdrake
01-16-2017, 02:51 PM
Dear Rand. Please get rid of the mandate. After that, I don't care. Thanks a bunch.

Rudeman
01-16-2017, 06:18 PM
Dear Rand. Please get rid of the mandate. After that, I don't care. Thanks a bunch.

I'm pretty sure removing the mandate would be part of Obamacare repeal.


As for Rand's plan I'm not sure why people are against it. Allowing people to buy a cheap high deductible plan again just in case of emergency, allowing businesses or individuals to voluntarily group up to form a large insurance pool for more leverage and allowing people to save more money into HSAs.

None of this is mandatory and it only gives people more options (aka more freedom) when it comes to Healthcare.

jmdrake
01-16-2017, 07:06 PM
I'm pretty sure removing the mandate would be part of Obamacare repeal.


As for Rand's plan I'm not sure why people are against it. Allowing people to buy a cheap high deductible plan again just in case of emergency, allowing businesses or individuals to voluntarily group up to form a large insurance pool for more leverage and allowing people to save more money into HSAs.

None of this is mandatory and it only gives people more options (aka more freedom) when it comes to Healthcare.

I'm not against Rand's plan. I'm all for it. I just hope repealing the mandate doesn't get lost in the shuffle. I fully expect Rand to fight to repeal the mandate. I'm not sure about the rest of the GOP. After all the mandate was the idea of the treacherous "Heritage Foundation."

Murray N Rothbard
01-17-2017, 05:34 AM
Not trying to throw shade on Rand's bill or Trump's promise but, so far, everything I've seen about the GOP's replacement plan (admittedly it's not much yet) looks like only changing the terminology but not changing much substance. A "tax credit" instead of a "subsidy", for example. Word games.

There actually is an important difference between tax credits and subsidies. Tax credits are exemptions from robbery, subsidies are products of robbery. Tax credits cost nothing, only reverse harm, etc. Subsidies are the opposite.

Carlybee
01-17-2017, 07:18 AM
My employer canceled our insurance when Obamacare came into law. We will never get it back. Nor did we get compensated for what was supposed to be a "benefit" when we got hired so it was like getting a demotion. So for many of us it doesn't matter one way or the other, we'll still get screwed.

Okie RP fan
01-17-2017, 03:58 PM
Not sure what to think.
Other than, we'll all still be screwed.

ChristianAnarchist
01-17-2017, 08:09 PM
Not sure what to think.
Other than, we'll all still be screwed.

That's the purpose of "goonerment"...

Origanalist
01-17-2017, 08:49 PM
Being in the medical industry I have to put my 2 cents in... People really shouldn't NEED most insurance. If people just bought a cheap plan to cover major medical costs such as emergency surgery and organ failure they should be able to pay for regular doctor visits and drugs out of pocket and save that $1000 per month they now pay (one way or another) for these plans that cover everything. Sure people would need to actually SAVE some of their money to cover small medical costs but that's too much to ask these days I guess...

Amen to that whole post. What screwed up a reasonably good thing was the government mandates.

EBounding
01-17-2017, 10:08 PM
It sounds like an okay plan, but it doesn't fully address pre-existing conditions or the fundamental tax code problem.

Here's what I would do:

1) Repeal Obamacare, 100%
2) Eliminate the employer healthcare tax exemption--this is the fundamental problem with the health insurance market
3) Make HSAs unlimited for medical expenses
4) Allow insurance purchases across state lines
5) People with pre-existing conditions have 3 years to sign up for gov't subsidies to treat their conditions. They should use this time to buy a policy to cover any other catastrophic conditions.
6) Gaps in coverage after 3 years will need to be filled by the states or charity.

I don't know how else to slay the beast. There's no political appetite for just tossing those with pre-existing conditions to fend for themselves--not even Ron Paul has ever suggested this. At least this plan creates markets immediately to lower costs and moves toward a free-market path instead of single-payer.

devil21
01-18-2017, 01:21 PM
There actually is an important difference between tax credits and subsidies. Tax credits are exemptions from robbery, subsidies are products of robbery. Tax credits cost nothing, only reverse harm, etc. Subsidies are the opposite.

Since tax credits are generally offset by increased deficit spending, the distinction is whether the value of the money goes down or whether the nominal dollar amount of the money in "your" bank account goes down. Such is the nature of fiat currencies that can be created out of nothing. In that regard it is word games. How do you prefer to lose money? By inflation tax or outright tax?

It's like the stock market. When markets are going up it really means the money is losing value. When it goes down it means the money is disappearing. Same idea. It's lost regardless.

Brian4Liberty
03-27-2017, 11:42 AM
Bump.