In the Shopping Cart of a Food Stamp Household: Lots of Soda

[CaseyJones]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/13/well/eat/food-stamp-snap-soda.html


What do households on food stamps buy at the grocery store?

The answer was largely a mystery until now. The United States Department of Agriculture, which oversees the $74 billion food stamp program called SNAP, has published a detailed report that provides a glimpse into the shopping cart of the typical household that receives food stamps.

The findings show that the No. 1 purchases by SNAP households are soft drinks, which accounted for 5 percent of the dollars they spent on food. The category of ‘sweetened beverages,’ which includes fruit juices, energy drinks and sweetened teas, accounted for almost 10 percent of the dollars they spent on food. “In this sense, SNAP is a multibillion-dollar taxpayer subsidy of the soda industry,” said Marion Nestle, a professor of nutrition, food studies and public health at New York University. “It’s pretty shocking.”

For years, dozens of cities, states and medical groups have urged changes to SNAP, or the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, to help improve nutrition among the 43 million poorest Americans who receive food stamps. Specifically, they have called for restrictions so that food stamps cannot be used to buy junk food or sugary soft drinks.

But the food and beverage industries have spent millions opposing such measures, and the U.S.D.A. has denied every request, saying that selectively banning certain foods would be unfair to food stamp users and create too much red tape.
Continue reading the main story

While the report, published recently, suggests that a disproportionate amount of food stamp money is going toward unhealthful foods, the U.S.D.A. said it was unfair to single out food stamp recipients for their soft drink consumption.

The report compared SNAP households and non-SNAP households. While those who used food stamps bought slightly more junk food and fewer vegetables, both SNAP and non-SNAP households bought ample amounts of sweetened drinks, candy, ice cream and potato chips. Among non-SNAP households, for example, soft drinks ranked second on the list of food purchases, behind milk.

“Sweetened beverages are a common purchase in all households across America,” Kevin Concannon, the U.S.D.A. under secretary for food, nutrition and consumer services, said in an interview. “This report raises a question for all households: Are we consuming too many sweetened beverages, period?”

The report was based on data from an unnamed, nationwide grocery chain, which provided the U.S.D.A. with monthly records of food items bought in 2011 by more than 26 million households, about three million of them food stamp recipients. The grocery chain identified and tracked SNAP households by their use of SNAP benefit cards at the checkout aisle. One limitation of the report was that it could not always distinguish when SNAP households used their benefits, other money or a combination of the two to pay for transactions.

Nonetheless, the report provides a striking look at the foods American households typically buy.

Across all households, the report found, “more money was spent on soft drinks than any other item” — a finding that reflects the fact that, while consumption of sugary drinks is lower today than it was a decade ago, the United States still consumes more sugary drinks than almost any other developed country, studies show.

The U.S.D.A. report found that milk, cheese, potato chips, beef, cold cereal and baked bread were among the top purchases for all households. It indicated that all Americans bought ample amounts of desserts, salty snacks, candy and other junk foods. But the SNAP households spent slightly less money on nutritious foods, including fruits and vegetables, beans, eggs, nuts and seeds.

Over all, the report found, SNAP households spent about 40 cents of every dollar at the grocery store on “basic items” like meat, fruits, vegetables, milk, eggs and bread. Another 40 cents of every dollar was spent on “cereal, prepared foods, dairy products, rice and beans.” Lastly, 20 cents of each dollar was spent on a broad category of junk foods that included “sweetened beverages, desserts, salty snacks, candy and sugar.”

SNAP households spent 9.3 percent of their grocery budgets on sweetened beverages alone, not including soft drinks. That was slightly higher than the 7.1 percent figure for households that do not receive food stamps.

https://static01.********/images/2017/01/14/science/00Snapsoda-ShoppingCart/00Snapsoda-ShoppingCart-master768.jpg

^ when you see that it's not someone drinking the soda it's someone using foodstamps to buy soda to sell in their bodega or restaurant

[Schifference]

Years ago when my kids were small I would bring them out early on recycling day to pick up cans and bottles. In CT there is a 5 cent deposit. We would find very few cans or bottles in the recycling until we got to the Section 8 neighborhood. It was there that we scored pay dirt. Often times getting $20 worth of bottles in a half hour. People that pay for their chit value what they pay for more than those that get it for free.

[ghengis86]

This always makes my blood boil when I see nothing but junk food in the cart of the person in front of me and they whip out their SNAP card to pay. And they're a land whale too. And they then run a second transaction for booze and tobacco and pay with cash or another card.

You can't turn off SNAP overnight; there would be riots and more innocents would be harmed. But we can use incrementalism to take this back the other way, down to zero. First, eliminate all liquids save for water and maybe milk. Then eliminate 'junk' foods, high sugar/salt, processed foods. Dial it back to fresh fruits and veggies, meat, maybe rice, pasta and canned goods. Eventually eliminate milk and meat. Never met a fat vegetarian. Then, pare back the actual cash amount. Final step is back to only getting a loaf of bread and a block of government cheese. Then, nothing.

Take maybe five years, trimming staff and duties along the way. Start of year 6, shut off the lights, lock the doors and be done with it.

[ghengis86]

Years ago when my kids were small I would bring them out early on recycling day to pick up cans and bottles. In CT there is a 5 cent deposit. We would find very few cans or bottles in the recycling until we got to the Section 8 neighborhood. It was there that we scored pay dirt. Often times getting $20 worth of bottles in a half hour. People that pay for their chit value what they pay for more than those that get it for free.

We got 10 cents when I was a kid in Michigan. Pattern held the there too. That was some great money for a kid.

[Suzanimal]

I read just the other day, the same idea is being batted around in GA.


Tennessee bill: No food stamps for ice cream, soda

A Tennessee lawmaker has filed a bill in the legislature that would prohibit low-income families from using food stamps to purchase items high in calories, sugar or fat, saying such benefits should come with strings attached.

Rep. Sheila Butt, R-Columbia, filed the bill Thursday, which would ban the purchase of foods such as ice cream, candy, cookies and cake, which the bill says is recommended by the Department of Agriculture. Under the bill’s language, the state also would be able to seek a waiver to create a list of prohibited food items.

Individuals and businesses that violate the measure, should it become law, would be fined $1,000 for a first offense, $2,500 for a second offense and up to $5,000 for a third or more offense in a five-year period.

“When you’re receiving taxpayer dollars, it’s not money that you’ve have earned. It’s money that other people have earned and is redistributed to you. Strings come along with that,” Butt said in a release posted on her website.

“By allowing their purchase with EBT cards, we are actually enhancing diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol and obesity in at-risk communities.”

Butt said in the release that taxpayers are "subsidizing unhealthy lifestyle choices" for people who receive food stamps.

"At the end of the day, if you’re on public assistance, you shouldn’t be using taxpayer dollars to consume junk food that leads to additional health problems and more taxpayer assistance to address those problems,” Butt explained.

According to state records, more than $134 million in food Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) benefits were distributed to more than 1 million individuals statewide in November.

Nearly a quarter of that total, about $31.1 million, went to Shelby County alone. Davidson County received about $11.8 million, and Knox County received about $6.5 million. Maury County, which includes Butt's district, received about $1.4 million in benefits in November, paid to more than 5,700 households.

Linda Williams, the president and CEO of the RISE Foundation in Memphis, said the legislation punishes low-income individuals for a problem that should be addressed through education.

“We’re trying to impose a regulation on people where the general public has the same issue,” she said.

Williams, who worked for the Department of Human Services for 32 years and earned a master’s degree studying nutrition across income levels, said access and availability of healthy foods are a bigger problem, and one that isn’t specific to low-income individuals.

“It’s not really a legislative issue; it’s an educational issue,” she said.

Dr. Manny Sethi, who along with his wife founded Healthy Tennessee, a nonprofit organization seeking to promote preventative health care, agreed that the issue is more about education.

"You can pass laws all day long that you want, but until people understand that they shouldn’t eat three pints of ice cream a day (things won't change)," he said. "I don’t think Capitol Hill telling people what they can eat is the right thing."

Sethi said he believes it would be more effective if government offered tax breaks and incentives to food suppliers to come into areas throughout the state they would not otherwise go to and promote healthier eating.

...

http://www.ksdk.com/news/nation-now/tennessee-bill-no-food-stamps-for-ice-cream-soda/386044807

I wonder what will happen if it passes...

From the OP


Since 2004, a number of cities and states have sought to restrict sugary drinks from their SNAP programs, including Maine, Minnesota and New York City under Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg in 2011. But doing so requires permission from the U.S.D.A., and the agency has denied every official request.

Mr. Concannon at the U.S.D.A. said the agency had “intermittent dialogue” with municipalities across the country about prohibiting the purchase of sugary drinks through SNAP. But he said the agency would grant a state or city permission to do so only on the condition that it first conducted “a rigorous pilot study” and offered food stamp recipients the ability to opt out of the soda restrictions.

[oyarde]

Taxpayers should not be buying soda for anyone . It is immoral . These programs are snake oil . Sold to the public that people will suffer and starve without them . It is all bullshit .

[tod evans]

Taxpayers should not be buying soda for anyone . It is immoral . These programs are snake oil . Sold to the public that people will suffer and starve without them . It is all bullshit .

^^^^^^^^^^ This! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[oyarde]

This always makes my blood boil when I see nothing but junk food in the cart of the person in front of me and they whip out their SNAP card to pay. And they're a land whale too. And they then run a second transaction for booze and tobacco and pay with cash or another card.

You can't turn off SNAP overnight; there would be riots and more innocents would be harmed. But we can use incrementalism to take this back the other way, down to zero. First, eliminate all liquids save for water and maybe milk. Then eliminate 'junk' foods, high sugar/salt, processed foods. Dial it back to fresh fruits and veggies, meat, maybe rice, pasta and canned goods. Eventually eliminate milk and meat. Never met a fat vegetarian. Then, pare back the actual cash amount. Final step is back to only getting a loaf of bread and a block of government cheese. Then, nothing.

Take maybe five years, trimming staff and duties along the way. Start of year 6, shut off the lights, lock the doors and be done with it.

I would abolish the USDA completely , giving only minimal notice .

[silverhandorder]

I agree with controlling the food they can consume. Also you will find this funny but buying water is not allowed with snap. Apparently cuss there is tap water.

[RonPaulMall]

You can't turn off SNAP overnight; there would be riots and more innocents would be harmed. But we can use incrementalism to take this back the other way, down to zero. First, eliminate all liquids save for water and maybe milk. Then eliminate 'junk' foods, high sugar/salt, processed foods. Dial it back to fresh fruits and veggies, meat, maybe rice, pasta and canned goods. Eventually eliminate milk and meat. Never met a fat vegetarian. Then, pare back the actual cash amount. Final step is back to only getting a loaf of bread and a block of government cheese. Then, nothing.


One problem with that would be the homeless. Rice, pasta, veggies all need to be cooked and can't do that without stove or even microwave. This whole discussion is a trap. Instead of micromanaging social welfare we need to focus more on drawing it down. Focus benefits on the elderly destitute and reduce them everywhere else. Especially necessary is a law that says you LOSE benefits for having additional children rather than gain more benefits. That is the true insanity of the current system. We are encouraging the worst among us to breed.

[69360]

They buy the cheapest soda or water they can find in cases, walk out to the parking lot, pour it out, then bring the returnables back in for the deposit money and use it to buy drugs. This is the real reason it's the most bought item.

[Ender]

One problem with that would be the homeless. Rice, pasta, veggies all need to be cooked and can't do that without stove or even microwave. This whole discussion is a trap. Instead of micromanaging social welfare we need to focus more on drawing it down. Focus benefits on the elderly destitute and reduce them everywhere else.

^^THIS^^


I CARE NOT IF SOMEONE HAS A CARTON OF SODA- let them eat as they may.

What needs to be taken care of is the system, not adding more rules and regs- very dangerous. Soon everyone will be told what they can or cannot buy/eat etc. It's very close to that already.

The answer is to get the feds out of personal lives and let local communities take care of the poor.

[donnay]

^^THIS^^


I CARE NOT IF SOMEONE HAS A CARTON OF SODA- let them eat as they may.

What needs to be taken care of is the system, not adding more rules and regs- very dangerous. Soon everyone will be told what they can or cannot buy/eat etc. It's very close to that already.

The answer is to get the feds out of personal lives and let local communities take care of the poor.

I agree. There are food banks everywhere and lots of compassionate people. Tough love is needed for this country.

Welfare is slavery. Unfortunately for those who have been on it for so long do not know what freedom really is. If people really got a taste of unbridled liberty this would not continue, generation after generation. Welfare was deliberately designed to keep people enslaved.

[Ender]

I agree. There are food banks everywhere and lots of compassionate people. Tough love is needed for this country.

Welfare is slavery. Unfortunately for those who have been on it for so long do not know what freedom really is. If people really got a taste of unbridled liberty this would not continue, generation after generation. Welfare was deliberately designed to keep people enslaved.

1000% agree.

It has destroyed black families and was meant to do so.

[phill4paul]

The whole "business" of feeding the hungry could be done on a voluntary basis if the government didn't find it so lucrative. Every single town I know has a charitable food bank and or soup kitchen. If the feds simply allowed tax write off incentives to food inc. for donated items, if grocers received write offs for logistics, and using foodbank's as the "poverty grocer" this could all be handled without government oversight.

[timosman]

The government is like a crazy uncle.:confused:

[Ender]

The whole "business" of feeding the hungry could be done on a voluntary basis if the government didn't find it so lucrative. Every single town I know has a charitable food bank and or soup kitchen. If the feds simply allowed tax write off incentives to food inc. for donated items, if grocers received write offs for logistics, and using foodbank's as the "poverty grocer" this could all be handled without government oversight.

Yep.

I've worked with many foodbanks- one of the problems is that many big stores are not allowed to give their unsold food items to the foodbanks any more. They have to throw away 1000s of pounds of food, rather than donating it.

We definitely need .gov out of the welfare business.

[opal]

SNIP Eventually eliminate milk and meat. Never met a fat vegetarian. SNIP



Um.. hi.. I'm a fat vegetarian.. partially due to undiagnosed medical crap but yeah.. we exist

[Ender]

Um.. hi.. I'm a fat vegetarian.. partially due to undiagnosed medical crap but yeah.. we exist

Yep.

And contrary to pop culture, meat products don't make a person fat, carbs do.

[donnay]

1000% agree.

It has destroyed black families and was meant to do so.

I absolutely agree. Keep them on the dole, they will feel they are entitled to this welfare--instilled a false sense of pride. Then the phony feminist movements came in to teach these women, you don't need a man to help you raise your family, government will help you.

[opal]

Yep.

And contrary to pop culture, meat products don't make a person fat, carbs do.

exception.. if someone eats a lot of high fat pork and beef that ate mostly grain (GMO corn/soy) it's getting carbs the long way around
also in that scenario.. those same products will raise blood sugar - I saw it happen
My husband had the flu a few years back.. first thing he wanted when he could eat was a porterhouse.. his blood sugar went from 91 to 289 on just steak
it was not grass fed

[donnay]

Yep.

I've worked with many foodbanks- one of the problems is that many big stores are not allowed to give their unsold food items to the foodbanks any more. They have to throw away 1000s of pounds of food, rather than donating it.

We definitely need .gov out of the welfare business.

Exactly! No one should ask government for any breaks. because that is when they dictate.

It's a sin the amount of food that is wasted while people are starving.

[tod evans]

Yep.

I've worked with many foodbanks- one of the problems is that many big stores are not allowed to give their unsold food items to the foodbanks any more. They have to throw away 1000s of pounds of food, rather than donating it.

We definitely need .gov out of the welfare business.

Our locally owned grocery stores donate outdated non-perishables to local charities and have local hog farmers who pick-up outdated bread-n-produce every night.

Wal-Mart and their ilk don't do that....

[phill4paul]

The report compared SNAP households and non-SNAP households. While those who used food stamps bought slightly more junk food and fewer vegetables, both SNAP and non-SNAP households bought ample amounts of sweetened drinks, candy, ice cream and potato chips. Among non-SNAP households, for example, soft drinks ranked second on the list of food purchases, behind milk.

Well, there is a difference here, Einstien. Non-SNAP households have what is called "discretionary income" that they may spend on what they want not necessarily that which they need. SNAP should only cover that which is necessary for survival.

[phill4paul]

Our locally owned grocery stores donate outdated non-perishables to local charities and have local hog farmers who pick-up outdated bread-n-produce every night.

Wal-Mart and their ilk don't do that....

It all depends where you live and what the government will allow.

[CPUd]

http://i.imgur.com/W2W2xOL.jpg

[Zippyjuan]

Info on Food Stamp (SNAP) benefits: http://www.cbpp.org/research/a-quick-guide-to-snap-eligibility-and-benefits


Its gross monthly income — that is, its income before any of the program’s deductions are applied — generally must be at or below 130 percent of the poverty line. For a family of three, the poverty line used to calculate SNAP benefits in federal fiscal year 2017 is $1,680 a month. Thus, 130 percent of the poverty line for a three-person family is $2,184 a month, or about $26,200 a year. The poverty level is higher for bigger families and lower for smaller families.[3]

Its net income, or income after deductions are applied, must be at or below the poverty line.

Its assets must fall below certain limits: households without an elderly or disabled member must have assets of $2,250 or less, and households with an elderly or disabled member must have assets of $3,250 or less.


Table 1 shows the maximum SNAP benefit levels in fiscal year 2017 for households of different sizes. Take as an example a family of three: if that family had no income, it would receive the maximum benefit of $511 per month; if it had $600 in net monthly income, it would receive the maximum benefit ($511) minus 30 percent of its net income (30 percent of $600 is $180), or $331. On average, SNAP households currently receive about $255 a month. The average SNAP benefit per person is about $126 per month, which works out to about $1.40 per person per meal.

Now if we take that average benefit of $126 a month per person and go by the figure in the OP:


The findings show that the No. 1 purchases by SNAP households are soft drinks, which accounted for 5 percent of the dollars they spent on food.

That would be $6.30 a month on average per person going to sodas.

[timosman]

Yep.

And contrary to pop culture, meat products don't make a person fat, carbs do.

Thank you for saying that, professor.:cool:

[phill4paul]

Info on Food Stamp (SNAP) benefits: http://www.cbpp.org/research/a-quick-guide-to-snap-eligibility-and-benefits


The average SNAP benefit per person is about $126 per month, which works out to about $1.40 per person per meal.

And that is why they should not be buying sodas.

[Zippyjuan]

They buy the cheapest soda or water they can find in cases, walk out to the parking lot, pour it out, then bring the returnables back in for the deposit money and use it to buy drugs. This is the real reason it's the most bought item.

Not going to get very high off the deposit on $6.30 of sodas. That is probably less than a dollar. In California, a bottle 24 ounces or less has a five cents deposit- ten cents for larger. A 24 pack of bottled water or soda? $1.20 in deposit.

[Zippyjuan]

Should there be freedom of choice?

[juleswin]

Years ago when my kids were small I would bring them out early on recycling day to pick up cans and bottles. In CT there is a 5 cent deposit. We would find very few cans or bottles in the recycling until we got to the Section 8 neighborhood. It was there that we scored pay dirt. Often times getting $20 worth of bottles in a half hour. People that pay for their chit value what they pay for more than those that get it for free.

Wow, sometime you guys made $20 in 30 minutes. That is 400 cans in 30 minutes or 13.3 cans a minute. Also were the cans neatly packed in separated bags for you guys to pick it? That is quite amazing. I tried collecting cans my self and got about $1.20c in 6 months of collecting my own and friends empty cans. Then I decided to dumpster dive and that was when I decided it was not worth my time. I say this because the cans were sandwiched between rotten food, dirty diapers, broken bottles etc and did I mention dirty diapers?

I think you might have come in the day after a big celebration to get that much of a loot. But just out of curiosity, what was the average amount made per day from can hunting? I talked to a few dumpster divers here in Nebraska and they made about $10 - 20 per day and that is only because over the bridge in Iowa they get a 15 cents fee per can instead of the 5 c you get when you turn it in in Nebraska.

Can hunting is really not worth anyone's time at 5 c per can. It is dangerous, it is very unreliable and there are better alternatives that are easier to perform and pay more. I wouldn't collect those cans even if I was on food stamps.

[phill4paul]

Should there be freedom of choice?

Like the choice to voluntarily contribute or not?

[Zippyjuan]

Are you prohibited from making a voluntary contribution?

[Schifference]

Wow, sometime you guys made $20 in 30 minutes. That is 400 cans in 30 minutes or 13.3 cans a minute. Also were the cans neatly packed in separated bags for you guys to pick it? That is quite amazing. I tried collecting cans my self and got about $1.20c in 6 months of collecting my own and friends empty cans. Then I decided to dumpster dive and that was when I decided it was not worth my time. I say this because the cans were sandwiched between rotten food, dirty diapers, broken bottles etc and did I mention dirty diapers?

I think you might have come in the day after a big celebration to get that much of a loot. But just out of curiosity, what was the average amount made per day from can hunting? I talked to a few dumpster divers here in Nebraska and they made about $10 - 20 per day and that is only because over the bridge in Iowa they get a 15 cents fee per can instead of the 5 c you get when you turn it in in Nebraska.

Can hunting is really not worth anyone's time at 5 c per can. It is dangerous, it is very unreliable and there are better alternatives that are easier to perform and pay more. I wouldn't collect those cans even if I was on food stamps.

As mentioned it was recycling day. They were already at the curb. Sometimes big bags or multiple bags of cans/bottles. There were 3 of us. That is only the collecting portion. Obviously sticking those dirty cans into a machine took time.

[phill4paul]

Are you prohibited from making a voluntary contribution?

Am I required to non-voluntarily contribute?

[FSP-Rebel]

Should there be freedom of choice?
Not with other peoples' money. They are at the behest of their liege that foots the bill so I would be generous and offer them a daily meal of rice and cabbage if they're not willing to work for themselves. Only the most severely disabled should be given a pass.

[Brian4Liberty]

Of course they buy soda. What are they supposed to drink? Water? Like in the toilet?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZmSeBI6Bp4

[CPUd]

Not going to get very high off the deposit on $6.30 of sodas. That is probably less than a dollar. In California, a bottle 24 ounces or less has a five cents deposit- ten cents for larger. A 24 pack of bottled water or soda? $1.20 in deposit.

If you were a drug addict, the math on this would make more sense.

[phill4paul]

As mentioned it was recycling day. They were already at the curb. Sometimes big bags or multiple bags of cans/bottles. There were 3 of us. That is only the collecting portion. Obviously sticking those dirty cans into a machine took time.

That's against the law in my town. Cuts into the trash companies profits.

[juleswin]

Should there be freedom of choice?

Freedom with your own money not with other people's money.

[Brian4Liberty]

I agree with controlling the food they can consume. Also you will find this funny but buying water is not allowed with snap. Apparently cuss there is tap water.

Quick Google fact check:


Q) Can I buy bottled water with SNAP benefits?

A) Yes, you can use your SNAP benefits to buy bottled water.
...
http://foodstampoffice.us/can-i-buy-bottled-water-with-snap-benefits/

[juleswin]

As mentioned it was recycling day. They were already at the curb. Sometimes big bags or multiple bags of cans/bottles. There were 3 of us. That is only the collecting portion. Obviously sticking those dirty cans into a machine took time.

I see, well actually in Nebraska it is against the law to take those bags. It doesn't matter if it is can or paper recycling bag. Also here in Nebraska, they just weigh you bad and give you the money, no need to even crush the cans. The only effort is in the collecting of the cans and driving which happened to be quite far from where I live.

[CPUd]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFu41swMy5Q

[Brian4Liberty]

They buy the cheapest soda or water they can find in cases, walk out to the parking lot, pour it out, then bring the returnables back in for the deposit money and use it to buy drugs. This is the real reason it's the most bought item.

It's been known to happen, but probably just as easy to drink it first.

[Schifference]

Oh against the law. Okay don't do that. No seriously, as mentioned it was years ago and was not illegal here at the time. Furthermore, we were pretty good at it and could spot a bag on the side of somebodies house. Simple knock on the door and those people would happily give them to my kids. Another true aspect was we set up an email and dropped off leaflets asking for the cans. We called it "cans for college." That didn't really pan out though. It was fun when we did it. Kids got to keep the money. Daughter wouldn't want to get up to go collect but would be jealous when son got to keep the cash.

[69360]

Not going to get very high off the deposit on $6.30 of sodas. That is probably less than a dollar. In California, a bottle 24 ounces or less has a five cents deposit- ten cents for larger. A 24 pack of bottled water or soda? $1.20 in deposit.

They fill carts with cases. It can add up to $10 or $20. More than enough to get their fix.

I doesn't make sense to you, but it makes perfect sense to an addict.

[surf]

criticizing what people on food stamps eat is low hanging fruit....

on another level, the calorie/$ ratio of a cart full of sweetened sodas is probably much higher than "grain fed" or "free range" pork, fresh veggies and fruits, or whatever other specialty garbage many of you seem to prefer to "poor people's food." calories are a measure of energy.

(complex) carbs, protein, anti-oxidants, etc. are not what makes folks trim. it's caloric intake. the previously mentioned items are what make wealthy people feel superior (ala the democratic mindset).

my .02.

[phill4paul]

Oh against the law. Okay don't do that. No seriously, as mentioned it was years ago and was not illegal here at the time. Furthermore, we were pretty good at it and could spot a bag on the side of somebodies house. Simple knock on the door and those people would happily give them to my kids. Another true aspect was we set up an email and dropped off leaflets asking for the cans. We called it "cans for college." That didn't really pan out though. It was fun when we did it. Kids got to keep the money. Daughter wouldn't want to get up to go collect but would be jealous when son got to keep the cash.

Also, around here there are no return fees. So all you would get is the price of aluminum at the scrap yard. Currently bringing $.22/.32 per pound. So there would be very little ROI considering time.

[phill4paul]

criticizing what people on food stamps eat is low hanging fruit....

on another level, the calorie/$ ratio of a cart full of sweetened sodas is probably much higher than "grain fed" or "free range" pork, fresh veggies and fruits, or whatever other specialty garbage many of you seem to prefer to "poor people's food." calories are a measure of energy.

(complex) carbs, protein, anti-oxidants, etc. are not what makes folks trim. it's caloric intake. the previously mentioned items are what make wealthy people feel superior (ala the democratic mindset).

my .02.

"Specialty garbage?" Lol.

[MelissaWV]

"Unintended" consequences. You start stating only healthy food can be bought with benefits, then companies lobby to be included in the category. Also, there are a lot of inner city areas that don't exactly have a lot of cheap produce.

Food pantries, churches, etc. do a great job, IMO. Government? Not so much.

Also Zippy really think about those numbers. Any soda is going to be bad for you. Twelve liters or so? Not good at all.

[oyarde]

[QUOTE=Zippyjuan;6398306]Info on Food Stamp (SNAP) benefits: http://www.cbpp.org/research/a-quick-guide-to-snap-eligibility-and-benefits



6.30 stolen from productive people given to others to buy soda with . Unamerican . I do not spend 6.30 a month on soda for myself , why would I want to pay for soda for deadbeats ?

[Anti Federalist]

Rep. Sheila Butt, R-Columbia, filed the bill Thursday, which would ban the purchase of foods such as ice cream, candy, cookies and cake, which the bill says is recommended by the Department of Agriculture. Under the bill’s language, the state also would be able to seek a waiver to create a list of prohibited food items.

Does anybody see where this is going?

As more and more idjits abandon cash for the "convenience" of swiping, tapping or clicking some piece of electronic shit, the ability to block purchases of prohibited items increases.

Allow this, and it will only be a matter of time before government, medical fascists and the insurance mafia starts lobbying to do this to everybody, for any one of millions of reasons.

[timosman]

Does anybody see where this is going?

As more and more idjits abandon cash for the "convenience" of swiping, tapping or clicking some piece of electronic shit, the ability to block purchases of prohibited items increases.

Allow this, and it will only be a matter of time before government, medical fascists and the insurance mafia starts lobbying to do this to everybody, for any one of millions of reasons.

Why are these idiots pushing this?:confused:

[CPUd]

"Unintended" consequences. You start stating only healthy food can be bought with benefits, then companies lobby to be included in the category. Also, there are a lot of inner city areas that don't exactly have a lot of cheap produce.

Food pantries, churches, etc. do a great job, IMO. Government? Not so much.

Also Zippy really think about those numbers. Any soda is going to be bad for you. Twelve liters or so? Not good at all.

WIC sorta does that, but with stuff like rice, milk, eggs. The store brand is usually the one with the WIC stamp, because it's the cheapest.

[MelissaWV]

WIC sorta does that, but with stuff like rice, milk, eggs. The store brand is usually the one with the WIC stamp, because it's the cheapest.

I haven't had much interaction with WIC in some time, but back when I cashiered, you could get the name brand or the store brand for things like juice. Mind you, these were NOT healthy items. They were highly-sugared beverages marketed to kids and purchased by parents because they were deemed important and healthy for their children. After all, the Government said it was vital enough to go on WIC, so obviously it was important and healthy. Juicy Juice, Welch's, the store brand; you could buy the bottles of juice or you could buy the concentrate. The weirdest part to me was that old WIC checks were essentially dry beans, rice, juice, and milk. For younger kids it included different levels of formula. What the hell kind of diet would that create? Not a very healthy one.

I do know that WIC checks now include more, including allowance for produce, but it's got a long way to go.

Actually I just looked it up, and yeah they've expanded a bunch, but it's still not particularly satisfactory (tofu is covered, but if you want organic peanut butter, it's not).

http://www.mass.gov/eohhs/docs/dph/wic/food-guide.pdf

[devil21]

This is the second mainstreamed "anti-EBT" type article in the last two days. One exposed $billions in fraud and this one exposing how it's a subsidy for various food producers, usually with unhealthy foods.

This article also explains why the other day CNBC ran a segment about Goldman downgrading Coke and Proctor&Gamble stock.

"Goldman says sell coke" <------yes that ran on the CNBC crawl.

Sounds like EBT cuts coming very soon. Gird your loins folks.

[pcosmar]

They buy the cheapest soda or water they can find in cases, walk out to the parking lot, pour it out, then bring the returnables back in for the deposit money and use it to buy drugs. This is the real reason it's the most bought item.

on the surface this might seem to make sense to some,,

but it is total bullshit.

Much easier (and we are not discussing the industrious) to buy a bunch of good cuts of beef and sell them in the parking lot for half price.
More cash instantly.

[donnay]

Why are these idiots pushing this?:confused:

Tyranny. Control.

[Ender]

exception.. if someone eats a lot of high fat pork and beef that ate mostly grain (GMO corn/soy) it's getting carbs the long way around
also in that scenario.. those same products will raise blood sugar - I saw it happen
My husband had the flu a few years back.. first thing he wanted when he could eat was a porterhouse.. his blood sugar went from 91 to 289 on just steak
it was not grass fed

What blood type is your husband?

[timosman]

What blood type is your husband?

That's rather personal.:rolleyes:

[Ender]

That's rather personal.:rolleyes:

Has everything to do with how food effects you.

I'm a Blood Type O and thrive on a Paleo diet. Other blood types have different needs. A Blood Type A should definitely not be eating meat.

[devil21]

Has everything to do with how food effects you.

I'm a Blood Type O and thrive on a Paleo diet. Other blood types have different needs. A Blood Type A should definitely not be eating meat.

Type is important, yes, but also very important is the rh factor. Blood types and food is a very interesting topic and I think everyone should research deeper into it.

[opal]

What blood type is your husband?

at our ages, we really should know that ..

[69360]

on the surface this might seem to make sense to some,,

but it is total bull$#@!.

Much easier (and we are not discussing the industrious) to buy a bunch of good cuts of beef and sell them in the parking lot for half price.
More cash instantly.

Sense and drug addiction don't usually go together. What I described has actually been a problem here.

They used to just trade the snap card to the dealer for drugs, but the state starting putting photos on the card. It was well known this was happening because the same people would get a replacement card every month.

There are also well known crooked stores where they can just ring up a transaction and get cash back for a cut.

Admittedly welfare fraud isn't systemic or widespread, but this stuff really does happen.

[Suzanimal]

Has everything to do with how food effects you.

I'm a Blood Type O and thrive on a Paleo diet. Other blood types have different needs. A Blood Type A should definitely not be eating meat.


Type is important, yes, but also very important is the rh factor. Blood types and food is a very interesting topic and I think everyone should research deeper into it.

I'm A-. I've thought about looking into that diet but I stopped at vegetarian. I might try it for a month and see how I feel.

[Ender]

I'm A-. I've thought about looking into that diet but I stopped at vegetarian. I might try it for a month and see how I feel.

That's what I did; try for a week, if a month seems too long.

I had a stomach ache all of my life until I read the book and tried it out. Turns out that wheat flour was killing me.

[devil21]

I'm A-. I've thought about looking into that diet but I stopped at vegetarian. I might try it for a month and see how I feel.

Just fyi but if you're a neg then you are no animal ;)

[surf]

the concept of this thread feels like the concept of taxing and regulating cheap fast food out of poor neighborhoods.

as a long-time type 1 diabetic, it is tempting to criticize eating habits of other people (particularly those that have acquired type-2 diabetes). in my mind, perhaps a "cure" for my disease would have been developed if all diabetes research funds were allocated to my disease. but there is such a selfish aspect to this viewpoint that I've managed to dismiss it.

on a side note, I just think it's poor form to criticize poor peoples poor choices.

[silverhandorder]

Quick Google fact check:

I am not going to argue. From experience it's not allowed. Maybe things changed.

[ghengis86]

Um.. hi.. I'm a fat vegetarian.. partially due to undiagnosed medical crap but yeah.. we exist

lol, never said you didn't exist, just that i've never met one. b/c the stereotype has been accurate in my experience. also, i do understand that you can get fat without eating meat. calories in minus calories out; +=gain weight, -=lose weight. doesn't get any simpler.
cheers

[Suzanimal]

lol, never said you didn't exist, just that i've never met one. b/c the stereotype has been accurate in my experience. also, i do understand that you can get fat without eating meat. calories in minus calories out; +=gain weight, -=lose weight. doesn't get any simpler.
cheers

Hormonal issues play a big part in it. I never had much trouble controlling my weight until I started having thyroid problems. Now, I have to keep track of every calorie.:(

[MelissaWV]

lol, never said you didn't exist, just that i've never met one. b/c the stereotype has been accurate in my experience. also, i do understand that you can get fat without eating meat. calories in minus calories out; +=gain weight, -=lose weight. doesn't get any simpler.
cheers

As Suz says, a number of things can warp the "out" part. Hormones, stress, medications, disease...anything that messes with your chemistry.

[ghengis86]

Hormonal issues play a big part in it. I never had much trouble controlling my weight until I started having thyroid problems. Now, I have to keep track of every calorie.:(


As Suz says, a number of things can warp the "out" part. Hormones, stress, medications, disease...anything that messes with your chemistry.

Definitely agree. I could NEVER gain a pound when I was younger. Now, something's slowed down and all of the sudden I wake up and have 15 extra pounds. WTF? The 'out' part includes your physiology, for better or worse. But the 'law of the calorie' remains. Solve that and you can also sell your perpetual motion machine!

[fcreature]

Um.. hi.. I'm a fat vegetarian.. partially due to undiagnosed medical crap but yeah.. we exist

I know a lot of fat vegetarians. It's not hard when your diet consists primarily of pasta and bread.

[misterx]

One problem with that would be the homeless. Rice, pasta, veggies all need to be cooked and can't do that without stove or even microwave. This whole discussion is a trap. Instead of micromanaging social welfare we need to focus more on drawing it down. Focus benefits on the elderly destitute and reduce them everywhere else. Especially necessary is a law that says you LOSE benefits for having additional children rather than gain more benefits. That is the true insanity of the current system. We are encouraging the worst among us to breed.

It should be eliminated completely. These attempts to control what people are allowed to eat is a step in the wrong direction. Instead of taking power away from a government program, we are giving it more power. Conservatives should not be supporting such ideas. The way things are going buying food with your own money is going to be illegal eventually. We'll all have a food allotment provided by the government, and they will already have the power to control what we eat.

[Weston White]

That's against the law in my town. Cuts into the trash companies profits.

So you forfeit your rights to your trash once placed around a publicly accessible space.
The city claims ownership of such trash, but only so far as such items hold inherent value.
Yet the city claims you are responsible to remove all items and trash dumped on or around the premise of your property without your permission or knowledge.

I feel like logic has itself broken here.

[otherone]

We live in a trickle up economy. The poor do not create wealth; they are purely consumers. Similar to SNAP, EIC tax refunds, that go to those who don't pay taxes, also wind up in corporate shareholder accounts. The system is such that middle class taxes subsidize the wealthy.

[opal]

I know a lot of fat vegetarians. It's not hard when your diet consists primarily of pasta and bread.

my diet consists mostly of green things.. leaves and stalks, avocados, peas, green beans, olives (green and black) cucumber, cabbage
I'm off wheat, corn, oats, rye, barley and white potatoes (I will eat a purple potato though). Occasionally I'll have rice - sweet potatoes about once a week,
quinoa.. about once a month
Other colors..
white.. cauliflower, cheese that has not been colored yellow, organic fresh dairy and yogurt, onions, garlic
neutral/more than one color.. nuts, organic raw nuts, hemp seeds, bananas, apples, pears, apricots, plums/prunes
Red.. beets, tomatoes, red peppers, strawberries, raspberries (ok, blue but blueberries) baby red lentils occasionally,
Orange.. oranges, orange bell peppers when I can find them organic, winter squash, carrots (and the multi color ones)
brown.. chocolate, yes, chocolate is a food group, coffee (bulletproof)
my grease is butter, coconut oil and occasionally olive oil
and I have various herbs around to make "not tea" drinks (oat straw, comfrey, nettles *tastes bad but good for the body, raspberry leaf, red clover etc..
I eat a lot of soups and salads.
I am not so much an over eater but an under exerciser - I get about 20 minutes into something.. get so hot I get nauseous and have to stop.. and it's not that way unless I'm off my thyroid meds but then I get arrhythmias and weird skin things going on. bad trade.. no good choice

[juleswin]

So you forfeit your rights to your trash once placed around a publicly accessible space.
The city claims ownership of such trash, but only so far as such items hold inherent value.
Yet the city claims you are responsible to remove all items and trash dumped on or around the premise of your property without your permission or knowledge.

I feel like logic has itself broken here.

The logic is sound. You see, the people putting out the trash are leaving it out for the trash company to pick it up and recycle. And sometimes the participants get a discount from the trash company. So in essence, taking something left 4 someone else is actually stealing. Imagine how you would feel if you put a mail out to be delivered by Fedex and some no name person takes it and delivers it for you. Even if they do a good job of it, you would still prefer the people you paid did the job.

[dannno]

Dial it back to fresh fruits and veggies, meat, maybe rice, pasta and canned goods. Eventually eliminate milk and meat. Never met a fat vegetarian.

Hah that's not accurate.. Meat doesn't make you fat, carbs make you fat. I've known plenty of fat vegetarians. Vegetarians tend to be more healthy than your average person and tend to be skinnier because they tend to focus on eating real foods - vegetables, fruits, nuts, whole grains - and less processed foods.. But there are vegetarians who eat too much sugar, too many highly processed grains and such who are overweight.

I lost over 60 lbs after I became vegetarian and stuck to a mostly veg diet for 10 years, but I lost the weight because I started eating healthier, not because I stopped eating meat. Now I am paleo, I eat tons of meat and literally drink fat and am even more trim and have my weight under better control than when I was vegetarian.. that is because I further cut my carb/sugar intake when I became paleo.

That said, meat is expensive and good cuts are a luxury item. Grains are cheap and are good in times of emergency or famon, and if you're on SNAP then you are lucky you are eating at all so IMO, SNAP should only be able to buy beans (dry), rice, flour, masa, pasta, milk, eggs, canned tuna, fresh veg, fruit, spices and meat that is less than $3/lb like chitlins and pigs feet, drum sticks, ground beef and whatnot. For water, they should only be able to buy the $.35/gallon bulk water from the dispenser, not bottled water.

[phill4paul]

So you forfeit your rights to your trash once placed around a publicly accessible space.
The city claims ownership of such trash, but only so far as such items hold inherent value.
Yet the city claims you are responsible to remove all items and trash dumped on or around the premise of your property without your permission or knowledge.

I feel like logic has itself broken here.

The way it works here is that the city contracts a private company for household trash and recyclables. The city has it's own vehicles for limbs and leaves. The contract with the city allows for collecting recycling. So when the recyclables are in the container at the curb they are considered property of the trash company.

[oyarde]

We live in a trickle up economy. The poor do not create wealth; they are purely consumers. Similar to SNAP, EIC tax refunds, that go to those who don't pay taxes, also wind up in corporate shareholder accounts. The system is such that middle class taxes subsidize the wealthy.

That is an interesting take . Even greater reason to remove govt from such things .